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(Some Guy)   Maxine Waters (D-Erp) and Keith Ellison (D-Umbass) are outraged about the National Debt clock on Capitol Hill. Why? Lots and lots and lots of reason, none of which are that it's inaccurate   (weaselzippers.us) divider line 81
    More: Obvious, The Hills, national debt, Jeb Hensarling, House Financial Services Committee  
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1476 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Feb 2013 at 3:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



81 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-02-26 11:36:47 PM  
The debt clock only looks at half the ledger. I've never liked it as a metric and pay it close to zero heed. When you do your checkbook, do you just look at how much money is going out, or do you look at money coming in as well? Because the debt clock does the former.

My preferred metric is account balance, or better yet, account balance as a percentage of GDP.

The United States performs abysmally there too, but I like to have better metrics.
 
2013-02-27 12:14:05 AM  
stock photo != debt clock

derp away.
 
2013-02-27 12:34:00 AM  
 
2013-02-27 01:43:26 AM  
Weaselzippers?  Just say no.
 
2013-02-27 01:58:10 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "Clearly it is a political prop designed to message ideologically," Ellison said.

Waters asked that the debt clock not be on display whenever Democrats spoke, Hensarling said during the hearing.

"At the request of the ranking member, the national debt clock will not be put on the screens during Democratic time," said Hensarling, a Texas Republican.

They'd probably prefer their own props.

[www.whitehouse.gov image 520x499]


But if we cut spending we'll lose things we like!!!
 
2013-02-27 02:30:57 AM  
when you want hard hitting political news and analysis, look no further than weaselzippers.us.
 
2013-02-27 02:34:00 AM  
Gosling:
My preferred metric is account balance, or better yet, account balance as a percentage of GDP.

When I clicked on your first link, the camera on my computer turned on.
 
2013-02-27 03:47:59 AM  
"Weaselzippers" sounds more like a ridiculous Fark username or a Weird Al song than a serious political website.
 
2013-02-27 03:49:57 AM  
A rickroll probably would have been a cheaper way to elicit the same effect, but then money isn't really the issue I suppose.
 
2013-02-27 03:59:31 AM  
Yet no one complained when Americans were buying the Treasury Bonds and making money off of them.
 
2013-02-27 04:04:38 AM  
Your blog sucks.
 
2013-02-27 04:05:01 AM  
I heard Obama was gonna buy me a free call phone. WHAR is my Obamaphone?
 
2013-02-27 04:07:42 AM  
The key is to own in Treasury bonds the amount that your family owes, in which case it all zeroes out and you're helping the country by sitting on those bonds instead of cashing them in.
 
2013-02-27 04:08:33 AM  
Whaddaya know? Right-wingers attack the Californian and the Muslim for criticizing them.

/In other news, water is wet.
 
2013-02-27 04:13:10 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "Clearly it is a political prop designed to message ideologically," Ellison said.

Waters asked that the debt clock not be on display whenever Democrats spoke, Hensarling said during the hearing.

"At the request of the ranking member, the national debt clock will not be put on the screens during Democratic time," said Hensarling, a Texas Republican.

They'd probably prefer their own props.

[www.whitehouse.gov image 520x499]


Which is the GOPs problem - they know that by the end of his second term, Obama will have fixed Bush's deficit, so now they have to switch from the deficit to the "big scary number with no context" approach.
 
2013-02-27 04:21:53 AM  
the deficit clock is nothing but a nonsense,alarmist, scare mongery pos, and I'd like to see real education about the deficit and debt replace it.
 
2013-02-27 04:32:03 AM  
So when are we all switching to bitcoins?
 
2013-02-27 04:49:33 AM  

RowdyRough: the deficit clock is nothing but a nonsense,alarmist, scare mongery pos, and I'd like to see real education about the deficit and debt replace it.


Threat level orange! We still owe money to terrorists!

/doinitwrong
 
2013-02-27 05:31:31 AM  

Alphax: Weaselzippers?  Just say no.

 
2013-02-27 05:41:42 AM  
And how much did that sign cost?
 
2013-02-27 06:06:26 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: "Weaselzippers" sounds more like a ridiculous Fark username or a Weird Al song than a serious political website.


More like a Zappa album.


www.science.uva.nl
 
2013-02-27 06:33:23 AM  
It's more than a little sad that props -- ANY props -- are allowed to be used on the floor of the House of Representatives.

If you want to have an attention-whoring press conference for the cameras where you stand in front of a giant spring-mounted dildo marked "MUSLIN SOSHULISM" rocketing into a paper mache mouth marked "TAXPAYER FREEDOM" knock yourself out, but don't do it just because you know the C-Span cameras have to be there.
 
2013-02-27 06:56:55 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It's more than a little sad that props -- ANY props -- are allowed to be used on the floor of the House of Representatives.

If you want to have an attention-whoring press conference for the cameras where you stand in front of a giant spring-mounted dildo marked "MUSLIN SOSHULISM" rocketing into a paper mache mouth marked "TAXPAYER FREEDOM" knock yourself out, but don't do it just because you know the C-Span cameras have to be there.


This.

What positivity did it add to the meeting?  How did it encourage finding a compromised solution?  It was meant to be a cheap partisan political tool to score some cheap points.  I guess they could have responded with an itemized list of what all is driving the debt including the unpaid for wars, the unpaid for nation building, and unfeasable tax cuts; but then I am glad it didn't devolve into a tit-for-tat argument.

This is a good example of why congress is so dysfunctional.  Even the meetings where business is supposed to be discussed are being turned into props for political posturing.
 
2013-02-27 07:08:00 AM  
I remember one time I caught my weasel in a zipper.

Poor little guy.
 
2013-02-27 07:10:40 AM  
It is an embarrassment that a political dog and pony show be used to grandstand!

AN ABSOLUTE EMBARRASSMENT!!!
 
2013-02-27 07:26:19 AM  
FYI, y'all, Maxine is a nut. Jeb Hensarling is a nut and a colossal douche

Your House, America. You can do better. Or maybe you can't, which is why my kids are taking classes (and looking for jobs) in other countries. Just in case.
 
2013-02-27 07:27:14 AM  
ybs
 
2013-02-27 07:29:45 AM  
Democrats have never been big on reality.  It's the dream that is important, not the ability to achieve it.
 
2013-02-27 07:33:10 AM  
Wow. This is the way you want to paint Keith Ellison this morning, after he pwned Sean Hannity last night?
 
2013-02-27 07:34:51 AM  

EyeballKid: This is the way you want to paint Keith Ellison this morning, after he pwned Sean Hannity last night?


Pwned Sean Hannity?

That's the political version of "successfully shot a dairy cow at point blank range".
 
2013-02-27 07:39:00 AM  
Mr. Coffee Nerves:

giant spring-mounted dildo marked "MUSLIN SOSHULISM" rocketing into a paper mache mouth marked "TAXPAYER FREEDOM"= a National Debt Clock

sounds legit
 
2013-02-27 07:41:51 AM  
Americans are too damn gullible for their own good.
 
2013-02-27 07:46:08 AM  

Gulper Eel: EyeballKid: This is the way you want to paint Keith Ellison this morning, after he pwned Sean Hannity last night?

Pwned Sean Hannity?

That's the political version of "successfully shot a dairy cow at point blank range".


Are you saying Sean Hannity is about as cunning as a dairy cow? And FNC just milks him for all he's worth?
 
2013-02-27 07:48:21 AM  
Let's have a "women raped since last defeat of a Violence Against Women bill" clock when Rapepublicans speak
 
2013-02-27 07:53:35 AM  
Two dems finally realize that spending is a problem?  Don't worry, they'll forget tomorrow.
 
2013-02-27 07:53:44 AM  

EyeballKid: Wow. This is the way you want to paint Keith Ellison this morning, after he pwned Sean Hannity last night?


You think mamecalling is pwning?

No! You're immoral. Pwned!
 
2013-02-27 07:54:14 AM  

IlGreven: Whaddaya know? the Californian and the Muslim

 attack Right-wingers  for criticizing them.

/In other news, water is wet.


It's a word jumble, create your own, and water will still be wet.
 
2013-02-27 07:55:06 AM  

digistil: Gulper Eel: EyeballKid: This is the way you want to paint Keith Ellison this morning, after he pwned Sean Hannity last night?

Pwned Sean Hannity?

That's the political version of "successfully shot a dairy cow at point blank range".

Are you saying Sean Hannity is about as cunning as a dairy cow? And FNC just milks him for all he's worth?


A cow produces milk. Hannity produces people who will hold still during the milk commercial.
 
2013-02-27 07:56:35 AM  
Waters is definitely a nut job. Not familiar with the other fellow.

But, I have hard time taking any Republican serious when it comes to debt. These are the assholes who waved tiny American flags while we sent pallets of $100 bills to Iraq with little to no oversight and kept the costs of the wars of choice they championed off the books.

You'll forgive me if I fail to join these shameless hypocrites in their moral indignation now.
 
2013-02-27 08:00:53 AM  

keylock71: Waters is definitely a nut job. Not familiar with the other fellow.

But, I have hard time taking any Republican serious when it comes to debt. These are the assholes who waved tiny American flags while we sent pallets of $100 bills to Iraq with little to no oversight and kept the costs of the wars of choice they championed off the books.

You'll forgive me if I fail to join these shameless hypocrites in their moral indignation now.


Especially when everything they want to do would increase debt.
 
2013-02-27 08:01:20 AM  

Kibbler: Let's have a "women raped since last defeat of a Violence Against Women bill" clock when Rapepublicans speak


Something of a tangent, but I'd be interested in seeing the stats on how many women and infants have died during childbirth since the Republicans started on their "Rape wands and obscene over-regulation for everybody!" kick.
 
2013-02-27 08:03:59 AM  

Alphax: keylock71: Waters is definitely a nut job. Not familiar with the other fellow.

But, I have hard time taking any Republican serious when it comes to debt. These are the assholes who waved tiny American flags while we sent pallets of $100 bills to Iraq with little to no oversight and kept the costs of the wars of choice they championed off the books.

You'll forgive me if I fail to join these shameless hypocrites in their moral indignation now.

Especially when everything they want to do would increase debt.


There's that, too... My favorite was Romney's "plan" to keep all the good things about the ACA and just get rid of how all the goodies were supposed to be paid for. Now that's Fiscal Conservatism, if I've ever seen it.
 
2013-02-27 08:07:55 AM  

IlGreven: Whaddaya know? Right-wingers attack the Californian and the Muslim for criticizing them.

/In other news, water is wet.


Are Californians victims now too?  Do we need to knee-jerk defend everyone from that state?  I never saw this in the weekly updates.  I'd appreciate it if you could also tell me who we are supposed to draw false equivalencies with every time a Californian screws up.  I'm assuming it's Florida or Texas, but I'd like to be sure.
 
2013-02-27 08:15:18 AM  

Gosling: When you do your checkbook, do you just look at how much money is going out, or do you look at money coming in as well?


Which, in context, has nothing to do with the balance on your credit card.
 
2013-02-27 08:22:14 AM  
It IS a dumb prop. Should we nuke all our enemies, because the "Doomsday clock" is so close to midnight? Goddamn, conservative blogs and pundits are farking terrible. It's how Drew makes that dolla dolla though, by trolling Fark.
 
2013-02-27 08:38:41 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It's more than a little sad that props -- ANY props -- are allowed to be used on the floor of the House of Representatives.

If you want to have an attention-whoring press conference for the cameras where you stand in front of a giant spring-mounted dildo marked "MUSLIN SOSHULISM" rocketing into a paper mache mouth marked "TAXPAYER FREEDOM" knock yourself out, but don't do it just because you know the C-Span cameras have to be there.


I agree with your first sentence. Makes about as much sense as having a prop displaying the number of Americans and Iraqis killed, wounded, crippled by our 2003 invasion of Iraq and its following occupation.
 
2013-02-27 08:48:44 AM  
Dollars of debt as percentage of GDP. Way down.

Cost of borrowing money: historic lows.

Dollars dur hur you people get free stuff and my freedoms are hurt: apocalyptic levels.
 
2013-02-27 09:00:03 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: They'd probably prefer their own props.


We really do live in an alternative reality when it comes to politics which seems to have zero relationship to reality.
 
2013-02-27 09:02:52 AM  
Lets say for an second that we got the debt down to 0. What do we win? What can we do that we can't do now?
 
2013-02-27 09:03:59 AM  
Turnabout is fair play. There should be a :National Children Murdered by Gunfire Clock" on display when the subject is gun control. "Oops, there goes another one!" It is also my strong belief that the photos from the Newtown killings should be released to the public. That guy screaming about his right to own an assault rifle should know exactly what an innocent child's brains splattered on a school house wall looks like.
 
2013-02-27 09:07:36 AM  

clambam: Turnabout is fair play. There should be a :National Children Murdered by Gunfire Clock" on display when the subject is gun control. "Oops, there goes another one!" It is also my strong belief that the photos from the Newtown killings should be released to the public. That guy screaming about his right to own an assault rifle should know exactly what an innocent child's brains splattered on a school house wall looks like.


I tend to agree with this. One's human granted second amendment right to something which, pretty much amounts to a deadly toy, ends at the point when that toy is used, repeatedly, to take away the inalienable rights of another to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
 
2013-02-27 09:19:00 AM  

Generation_D: Dollars of debt as percentage of GDP. Way down.


It's the highest it's been since 1948, and has increased every year since 2002.

But sure, let's keep borrowing to keep up ridiculous levels of spending.  Massive expansion of the entitlement state?  Sure.  Spending more on defense than most countries' entire GDP?  Sounds great!  A token raise on taxes for the rich and half the country paying no income tax?  Great idea!

Then when it all crashes we can blame the fat cat bankers.  Awesome.
 
2013-02-27 09:20:46 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Lets say for an second that we got the debt down to 0. What do we win? What can we do that we can't do now?


blogs.ocmetro.com

"You can have anything in this general 5 in square... Step right up, win some crap!"
 
2013-02-27 09:29:02 AM  

RowdyRough: the deficit clock is nothing but a nonsense,alarmist, scare mongery pos, and I'd like to see real education about the deficit and debt replace it.


Yes, that would be nice but don't forget this is politics where the idea is to frame, twist, and talk about things like facts to make your side of the argument seem better than the opposition's. Don't forget, most of these politicians are lawyers whose training came from schools that teach them how to win arguments based on our adversarial judicial system.

To the one who can best present their side go the spoils, or something like that.
 
2013-02-27 09:30:17 AM  
Clearly it is a political prop designed to message ideologically," Ellison said.

So, what's his point? Aren't ideological messages what Congress does? They've pretty much given up on actually running the country.
 
2013-02-27 09:35:06 AM  

FLMountainMan: Generation_D: Dollars of debt as percentage of GDP. Way down.

It's the highest it's been since 1948, and has increased every year since 2002.

But sure, let's keep borrowing to keep up ridiculous levels of spending.  Massive expansion of the entitlement state?  Sure.  Spending more on defense than most countries' entire GDP?  Sounds great!  A token raise on taxes for the rich and half the country paying no income tax too damn poor to pay income tax?  Great idea!

Then when it all crashes we can blame the fat cat bankers.  Awesome.


Fixed for accuracy. Unemployment and underemployment remain the greatest economic issue we face as a nation. All the deficit scolds and debt warriors continue to refuse to acknowledge that the global economy is still, basically, in recession. And as recent as 2003, conservative economists still acknowledged deficit driven stimulus spending as the appropriate response to a recessed economy. As long as we still have "official" 8% unemployment, and the private sector continues to not hire sufficiently to reduce that number, then the public sector MUST make up that difference. This is an economic truism that's been in place since the Bank of England told the king to shove it in 1660 and introduced the world to the concept of "Lender of last Resort".

There is NO...and I repeat NO historical record that supports cutting government in the midst of a recession. The notion that we must is pure propaganda.
 
2013-02-27 09:37:02 AM  

X-boxershorts: Unemployment and underemployment remain the greatest economic issue we face as a nation.


Bingo. Fix UE you'll fix revenues you'll fix the deficit and debt. Not the other way around.
 
2013-02-27 09:47:15 AM  
If  I were a politician, prone to the use of props, I'd more likely opt for the use of bondage themed go-go dancers than stupid crap like the debt clock. Or perhaps I'd go with a re-enactment of John Wilkes Booth's execution, just for fun. Maybe hire a catering company to make sandwiches behind me, while I spoke. Or omelettes. I could also go with a magician, or clowns.

No, the go-go dancers seem most appropriate.
 
2013-02-27 10:14:26 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Lets say for an second that we got the debt down to 0. What do we win? What can we do that we can't do now?


Lost Thought 00: Lets say for an second that we got the debt down to 0. What do we win? What can we do that we can't do now?


I don't know. Ask Brunei, Macau, Palau and Liechtenstein, because they're the only four countries that have gotten there.
 
2013-02-27 10:19:05 AM  
talkingpointsmemo.com

I agree with Cabbyman:  AN ABSOLUTE EMBARRASSMENT!!

/Bad action is not excused by another's bad action
 
2013-02-27 10:21:09 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Lets say for an second that we got the debt down to 0. What do we win? What can we do that we can't do now?


The goal should be having National debt at about half GDP.  Never 0.
 
2013-02-27 10:25:15 AM  

stlblue: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 660x360]

I agree with Cabbyman:  AN ABSOLUTE EMBARRASSMENT!!

/Bad action is not excused by another's bad action


Ah, but who's actually grandstanding? The president was re-elected knowing full well he was calling for additional tax revenue.

Is it grandstanding for him to point out the exact reason for the GOP House's refusal to acknowledge the most recent election?
 
2013-02-27 10:36:05 AM  

clambam: Turnabout is fair play. There should be a :National Children Murdered by Gunfire Clock" on display when the subject is gun control. "Oops, there goes another one!" It is also my strong belief that the photos from the Newtown killings should be released to the public. That guy screaming about his right to own an assault rifle should know exactly what an innocent child's brains splattered on a school house wall looks like.


Yes. Because if its one thing we need now, its more incendiary headlines.
 
2013-02-27 10:38:55 AM  

stlblue: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 660x360]

I agree with Cabbyman:  AN ABSOLUTE EMBARRASSMENT!!

/Bad action is not excused by another's bad action


concern troll is concerned.
 
2013-02-27 10:40:11 AM  

Generation_D: Because if its one thing we need now, its more incendiary headlines.


Real life images of the effects of deadly toys when they are applied inappropriately is incendiary?

So be it.
 
2013-02-27 11:00:44 AM  
X-boxershorts: there is NO...and I repeat NO historical record that supports cutting government in the midst of a recession. The notion that we must is pure propaganda.

Cool, so where's my job at? I heard a Chinese took it i think..

But yeah basically, they really just need to pump those shovel ready jobs, drop pallets of bills from the sky an shiat, get that inflation roaring, i was tired of trying to save for the future anyway, you're way sounds like allot more fun.

Who in the fark is buying all the foreclosed properties?
 
2013-02-27 11:08:49 AM  

knowless: X-boxershorts: there is NO...and I repeat NO historical record that supports cutting government in the midst of a recession. The notion that we must is pure propaganda.

Cool, so where's my job at? I heard a Chinese took it i think..

But yeah basically, they really just need to pump those shovel ready jobs, drop pallets of bills from the sky an shiat, get that inflation roaring, i was tired of trying to save for the future anyway, you're way sounds like allot more fun.

Who in the fark is buying all the foreclosed properties?


Banks...with your bailout money,

But seriously, America needs to spend at least 2 TRILLION on road and bridge repairs, is the private sector doing anything about this?
In spite of the fact that the private sector benefits hugely from having advanced infrastructure.

So, in your deficit scold world, in the face of a still damaged economy....whom would you trust to invest in America's decaying infrastructure?
 
2013-02-27 11:58:47 AM  

Generation_D: clambam: Turnabout is fair play. There should be a :National Children Murdered by Gunfire Clock" on display when the subject is gun control. "Oops, there goes another one!" It is also my strong belief that the photos from the Newtown killings should be released to the public. That guy screaming about his right to own an assault rifle should know exactly what an innocent child's brains splattered on a school house wall looks like.

Yes. Because if its one thing we need now, its more incendiary headlines.


Why should the Teahadis have all the fun?
 
2013-02-27 12:01:03 PM  

X-boxershorts: FLMountainMan: Generation_D: Dollars of debt as percentage of GDP. Way down.

It's the highest it's been since 1948, and has increased every year since 2002.

But sure, let's keep borrowing to keep up ridiculous levels of spending.  Massive expansion of the entitlement state?  Sure.  Spending more on defense than most countries' entire GDP?  Sounds great!  A token raise on taxes for the rich and half the country paying no income tax too damn poor to pay income tax?  Great idea!

Then when it all crashes we can blame the fat cat bankers.  Awesome.

Fixed for accuracy. Unemployment and underemployment remain the greatest economic issue we face as a nation. All the deficit scolds and debt warriors continue to refuse to acknowledge that the global economy is still, basically, in recession. And as recent as 2003, conservative economists still acknowledged deficit driven stimulus spending as the appropriate response to a recessed economy. As long as we still have "official" 8% unemployment, and the private sector continues to not hire sufficiently to reduce that number, then the public sector MUST make up that difference. This is an economic truism that's been in place since the Bank of England told the king to shove it in 1660 and introduced the world to the concept of "Lender of last Resort".

There is NO...and I repeat NO historical record that supports cutting government in the midst of a recession. The notion that we must is pure propaganda.


Is the Coolidge administration outside of the historical record now?

But I'm interested in your argument that half the country should pay no income tax whatsoever.  Do you really think that's healthy for a democracy?  That half the people don't directly pay anything into the federal government?  I'm not saying they should pay a lot; I think $100 a year should be the floor for the top 90% of households by income.  I realize it's somewhat of a token gesture, but I really don't like the philosphy behind exempting half the country from federal taxes.
 
2013-02-27 12:06:41 PM  

FLMountainMan: But I'm interested in your argument that half the country should pay no income tax whatsoever


This is not my argument at all.
 
2013-02-27 12:17:53 PM  

X-boxershorts: FLMountainMan: But I'm interested in your argument that half the country should pay no income tax whatsoever

This is not my argument at all.


No, the correct percentage of the country not paying income tax, with the current demographics, should be a little over 33% (20.2% under 15, 12.8% over 65). It's the ~15% who are working age and not paying income tax that are a problem - oh look, that number's pretty close to the U6 unemployment rate!

So once again, it's unemployment that's the problem.
 
2013-02-27 12:19:15 PM  

Mithiwithi: X-boxershorts: FLMountainMan: But I'm interested in your argument that half the country should pay no income tax whatsoever

This is not my argument at all.

No, the correct percentage of the country not paying income tax, with the current demographics, should be a little over 33% (20.2% under 15, 12.8% over 65). It's the ~15% who are working age and not paying income tax that are a problem - oh look, that number's pretty close to the U6 unemployment rate!

So once again, it's unemployment that's the problem.


Umm...^THIS^ was the point
 
2013-02-27 12:30:53 PM  

FLMountainMan: X-boxershorts: FLMountainMan: Generation_D: Dollars of debt as percentage of GDP. Way down.

It's the highest it's been since 1948, and has increased every year since 2002.

But sure, let's keep borrowing to keep up ridiculous levels of spending.  Massive expansion of the entitlement state?  Sure.  Spending more on defense than most countries' entire GDP?  Sounds great!  A token raise on taxes for the rich and half the country paying no income tax too damn poor to pay income tax?  Great idea!

Then when it all crashes we can blame the fat cat bankers.  Awesome.

Fixed for accuracy. Unemployment and underemployment remain the greatest economic issue we face as a nation. All the deficit scolds and debt warriors continue to refuse to acknowledge that the global economy is still, basically, in recession. And as recent as 2003, conservative economists still acknowledged deficit driven stimulus spending as the appropriate response to a recessed economy. As long as we still have "official" 8% unemployment, and the private sector continues to not hire sufficiently to reduce that number, then the public sector MUST make up that difference. This is an economic truism that's been in place since the Bank of England told the king to shove it in 1660 and introduced the world to the concept of "Lender of last Resort".

There is NO...and I repeat NO historical record that supports cutting government in the midst of a recession. The notion that we must is pure propaganda.

Is the Coolidge administration outside of the historical record now?


There was no recession under Coolidge, but you're arguing with a guy who thinks the Bank of England existed in 1660, so you deserve each other.
 
2013-02-27 12:42:21 PM  

LibertyHiller: guy who thinks the Bank of England existed in 1660, so you deserve each other.


Bank of England was the first to act as Lender of Last resort, they were chartered in 1694, the concept was solidifed circa 1790's. I stand here chastened. But the concept remains un-challenged, only the time frame was off.
 
2013-02-27 12:56:47 PM  
Point of order: there's a bit of fudging in my previous post.

While the 15% of the total population that is working age but not paying income taxes is entertainingly close to the U6 unemployment rate of 14.1%, U6 is itself calculated against the working age population. So the proportion of the total population that is working age but unemployed or underemployed is 14.1% of 67%, or just a little under 10%.

So of the 15% of the total population that would be paying income tax in an ideal world, but presently aren't consists of about 10% total pop unemployed/underemployed and 5% total pop employed but making too little to have a net positive income tax burden.

My key point, which is that 33% of the population should not be expected to pay income tax and that lack of jobs is the primary reason for the 15% that should but don't, still stands.
 
2013-02-27 01:40:16 PM  

X-boxershorts: LibertyHiller: guy who thinks the Bank of England existed in 1660, so you deserve each other.

Bank of England was the first to act as Lender of Last resort, they were chartered in 1694, the concept was solidifed circa 1790's. I stand here chastened. But the concept remains un-challenged, only the time frame was off.


You had that much right, so you can come off the naughty step now.
 
2013-02-27 02:55:04 PM  
Maybe the Senate should have a slideshow of murdered children playing during debates on gun control?
 
2013-02-27 06:03:23 PM  

Gosling: The debt clock only looks at half the ledger. I've never liked it as a metric and pay it close to zero heed. When you do your checkbook, do you just look at how much money is going out, or do you look at money coming in as well? Because the debt clock does the former.

My preferred metric is account balance, or better yet, account balance as a percentage of GDP.

The United States performs abysmally there too, but I like to have better metrics.


Doesn't that count imports/exports and other things that aren't government?

Lost Thought 00: Lets say for an second that we got the debt down to 0. What do we win? What can we do that we can't do now?


If the debt disappeared today you'd win $400 billion in next years budget. If it disappears before interest rates go up you win at least $400 billion in each years budget and the lack of possibility of getting stung with $1T in interest payments.
 
2013-02-27 06:04:13 PM  

GameSprocket: Maybe the Senate should have a slideshow of murdered children playing during debates on gun control?


All right, people are getting it. Government debt is like a school full of dead children.
 
2013-02-27 06:06:19 PM  

Mithiwithi: No, the correct percentage of the country not paying income tax, with the current demographics, should be a little over 33%


Sorry the correct answer is 100%
 
2013-02-27 09:03:13 PM  

jigger: Mithiwithi: No, the correct percentage of the country not paying income tax, with the current demographics, should be a little over 33%

Sorry the correct answer is 100%


[yous-trollin.jpg]

/that's a charitable response
//the alternative is to believe that you seriously think abolishing the income tax is a good idea
 
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