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(USA Today)   The guys who harass the Japanese whalers are officially pirates, says a federal court   (usatoday.com) divider line 136
    More: Obvious, Japanese, sea shepherd, Animal Planet, Australian courts, Japanese whalers, Whale Wars, pirates  
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8971 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Feb 2013 at 12:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-27 12:27:42 AM  
8 votes:
While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.
2013-02-27 12:23:18 AM  
8 votes:
Why in the flying f*ck would anyone need to kill a whale to research it?  That institute sounds like a thinly veiled front.  Sort of like those tobacco research institutes that are just pro-cancer lobbyists.
2013-02-27 12:26:16 AM  
7 votes:
Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.
2013-02-27 12:21:25 AM  
6 votes:
People that kill whalers deserve the hero tag

/Kill one of the few not evil sapient species, your stupid
2013-02-27 12:41:10 AM  
5 votes:

jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.


The US is involved for a number of reasons:

a) Many (if not all) the Sea Shepherd crew are US nationals.  (This is about as close as one gets to a "flag nation" with the Sea Shepherd--it explicitly does NOT fly under a national flag in an attempt to avoid international jurisdiction with their actions against whaling ships.)
b) More likely, the US is involved due to international maritime treaties that allow ANY country--actually mandate it in some cases--to take action in the event of actions that would be defined as piracy under maritime law.  (Yes, we're a signatory to these, hence why the Navy will sometimes escort ships through the Gulf of Aden.  And, yes, technically, harassing a ship in international waters to make it stop travel or its business whilst explictly flying the Jolly Roger in an attempt to not fly under a flag nation's protecting power and NOT acting under a formal marque of reprisal from a nation does meet the modern definition of piracy.)

/the right way would be for the crew of the Sea Shepherd to get a letter of marque and reprisal from the Australian government--seeing as the latter has technically forbidden whaling in these waters
//yes, letters of marque and reprisal do still exist in international maritime law.  They've not really been used since the 1800s and at the latest possibly WW I (since then, there has been a real shift towards drafting commercial ships into the Merchant Marine during times of warfare--largely because there aren't a whole lot of private vessels that can be converted into battleships or that ARE battleships, and in the case of the US partly because of Constitutional restrictions on issuance of letters of marque) but the provisions still very much exist; Goodyear airships acted in a de facto "quasi privateer" status in WW II (though arguably no legal framework existed for merchant marine airships) and the concept HAS occasionally been proposed as a method to deal with Somalian piracy
2013-02-27 12:31:02 AM  
5 votes:

Ima4nic8or: Pirates, terrorists...either name fits these whackjobs.  I hope that one day the captain of a bigger ship gets pissed off and rams and sinks their little sea turd.


The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker  does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.
2013-02-27 12:25:43 AM  
5 votes:
Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

Alternately, you could always bribe a Congressman to attach an amendment to some bill issuing you a letter of marque, so you have legal cover as long as you turn over half your swag (which will be zero, so amazingly easy to pay the bill).  One of my students once pointed out you could set up a table in any (or all) universities in the US and demand payment from the fratboy/athlete/bro-douche set to let them be pirates (ahem, privateers) in your employ.  Even with the 50% rake-off the feds would charge, you would be rolling in dough.  And the Japanese would be wondering why thousands of morons in Zodiacs were bearing down on them in waves.  Really it is a win-win-win-win (no whalers / no carbon-wasters / I have money / the feds pay off the national debt)
2013-02-27 12:24:31 AM  
5 votes:
Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?
2013-02-27 01:20:32 AM  
4 votes:
I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.
2013-02-27 01:01:02 AM  
4 votes:
The research excuse for the whaling is kind of hilarious. As a biologist, let me say you would never in a million years get a study like that past an ethics board. Large animal research is never conducted by killing the animals in significant numbers. Not even when the animals are abundant.

They're commercially hunting them for food in violation of international law, and nobody even wants the meat. It's ridiculous.
2013-02-27 12:44:42 AM  
4 votes:
Somebody just buy a couple of Russian torpedoes for these guys and sink the fricken Japanese whalers already.

Don't publicize it, don't take credit, sail an unmarked ship and just finish this stuff.


"Killing whales for research on their impact on our fisheries" is a bullshiat reason even if true, and they know it. How many other biological or environmental studies call for the wholesale murder of at-risk species in order to conduct the research? If you have to kill thousands every year, maybe the research isn't that necessary.

Whaling and canning of the meat and forcing it on the younger generations who want nothing to do with it is bullshiat (a large population of Japanese students at my alma mater, and they all tell tales of being forced to eat whale at school). Not to mention random checks of said whale meat has routinely turned up endangered species DNA, and we can call the scientific research part what it is: a red herring.
2013-02-27 12:14:53 AM  
4 votes:
Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv
2013-02-27 02:04:01 AM  
3 votes:
How do you trust a man who claims he was shot, when the cameras showed another story, and the evidence didn't support his claim?

How do you trust a crew who boastfully declare that their lives aren't worth more than a whale, and that they would die for their belief - only to immediately backpedal when a potentially life threatening situation presents itself?

How do you trust someone who has openly stated that they will do whatever they want regardless of what people say, because they believe it to be true?
2013-02-27 02:01:30 AM  
3 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: sat1va: I went on a whaling mission with my Icelandic grandfather in 1984 at the age of 6. We harpooned a couple of small whales (I have pictures of them gutted on the pier but I don't know what species)and it fed a bunch of people in the small town of Isafjordur where he lived. Food was a precious commodity back then and they ate what ever they could get. My grandfather's brother died right in front of him when they were young while repelling down a cliff to get puffin eggs to feed the family.

That being said, these Japanese whalers are likely hunting the whales to make boner pills or something, the more exotic and endangered the harder the boner.

Actually, a lot of the whaling pretty much boils down to a bad case of Southern Stubborn among the Japanese (aka "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I DID A BAD THING THIS IS OUR CULTURE BY GUM AND SO WE'LL DO IT MOAR TO PISS YOU OFF")...pretty much all of the whale meat goes into the school system as really, really cheap food...and pretty much most Japanese under the age of about 40-50 or so tend to think of whale the same way we Americans think of the blood-bones-and-sawdust "burger meat" in our school lunches...that is, as Meals That Would Be Refused By Starving Sudanese As Unfit For Dog Food Much Less Human Consumption.

Pretty much had it not been for some of the more extreme bits of Attention Whoring, whaling would have quite possibly died out (nobody buys whale anymore in Japan, it's pretty much commodity mystery-meat in school)...but thanks to the "HOW DARE YOU MURDER FLIPPER!" outrage from everyone save Norway, Iceland and a few First Nations groups in the Northwest parts of North America, the Japanese have pretty much done the same thing that your average Southerner does upon mention that the Confederate battle flag MIGHT have some unsavoury notions and pretty much promoted whaling as some sort of National And Cultural Identity Thing Under Attack By The Big, Bad World Outside Who Just Doesn't Understand, Kami-Damnit.

(Yes, ...


That's pretty spot on in my book.

My understanding is that the species they hunt have rather quick reproductive cycles AND and are not even close to endangered, which leaves sentience, intelligence (and deep down, where we don't like to admit, cuteness) as the factors separating whales-as-food from other animals-as-food.

Given the recent UK burger meat fiasco, where do we stand on horses? They seem pretty sentient to me, considering you can take a wild horse and figuratively "break" its will.  On the other hand, horses are rather delicious.  Not everyone agrees if we can eat them or not.  Pigs are incredibly intelligent (very adept at mazes, apparently) and if you don't love bacon you are a monster (those who love their faith more than pork, notwithstanding).  Octopodes are ridiculously creative and are often described as "moody" by those who care for them, but they rank quite low on the animals-as-food pecking order.  Just because they're ugly and a tad slimy? Or because they sit next to slugs and snails on the Tree of Life?  What our stance on dogs? Well, you get the picture.

What's food and what ain't is not a black and white question, and they Japanese are happy to exploit a loophole to insist that whales are food.  I don't know if they're right, but I like bacon and octopus and even horse (OK, maybe not all together in a bucket), but if someone told me it was morally wrong to eat them, then it has to be wrong to eat ALL animals.  Otherwise, shut the F up and enjoy your hypocrisy.

/whale jerky was NAAAASTY
//whale croquettes weren't that bad
///send your angry letters to kyuzokai@ultr..... ::carrier lost::
2013-02-27 01:14:59 AM  
3 votes:

sat1va: I went on a whaling mission with my Icelandic grandfather in 1984 at the age of 6. We harpooned a couple of small whales (I have pictures of them gutted on the pier but I don't know what species)and it fed a bunch of people in the small town of Isafjordur where he lived. Food was a precious commodity back then and they ate what ever they could get. My grandfather's brother died right in front of him when they were young while repelling down a cliff to get puffin eggs to feed the family.

That being said, these Japanese whalers are likely hunting the whales to make boner pills or something, the more exotic and endangered the harder the boner.


Actually, a lot of the whaling pretty much boils down to a bad case of Southern Stubborn among the Japanese (aka "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I DID A BAD THING THIS IS OUR CULTURE BY GUM AND SO WE'LL DO IT MOAR TO PISS YOU OFF")...pretty much all of the whale meat goes into the school system as really, really cheap food...and pretty much most Japanese under the age of about 40-50 or so tend to think of whale the same way we Americans think of the blood-bones-and-sawdust "burger meat" in our school lunches...that is, as Meals That Would Be Refused By Starving Sudanese As Unfit For Dog Food Much Less Human Consumption.

Pretty much had it not been for some of the more extreme bits of Attention Whoring, whaling would have quite possibly died out (nobody buys whale anymore in Japan, it's pretty much commodity mystery-meat in school)...but thanks to the "HOW DARE YOU MURDER FLIPPER!" outrage from everyone save Norway, Iceland and a few First Nations groups in the Northwest parts of North America, the Japanese have pretty much done the same thing that your average Southerner does upon mention that the Confederate battle flag MIGHT have some unsavoury notions and pretty much promoted whaling as some sort of National And Cultural Identity Thing Under Attack By The Big, Bad World Outside Who Just Doesn't Understand, Kami-Damnit.

(Yes, you're reading this right--the Japanese pretty much do whaling as a sort of National Emo Demonstration To Show Everyone Else That They're Wrong For Criticising Them.  Just like those folks who scream "HERITAGE NOT HATE!" re the Confederate battle flag.)
2013-02-27 01:12:56 AM  
3 votes:
The US federal court can go fark itself. It has no jurisdiction in international waters.

 If the the Japs want to ' research ' whales, they can access reams of information without going near the ocean, or they can open up any number of whales that beach themselves every year.

The Japanese gov't is diverting funds from the tsunami rebuild to fund these floating slaughter houses.

Whale watching is a multi million dollar business around the world.

The Sea Sheperd crews have been very successful in limiting the catch.
2013-02-27 01:04:21 AM  
3 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.


Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.
2013-02-27 12:50:46 AM  
3 votes:

BuckTurgidson: al's hat: shame the Japanese

"shame"? The Japanese?

Is this the very first day in your entire young life you've logged into the Internets?


Why yes!  Today is the first day...of course I've done a lot reading in my 46 years so I'm one of those people who doesn't actually believe that everything I might see on the interwebs is true.  I've been reading dead trees for like, forever.  jk, lol, rotflmao.  I did find this on the interweb thingie though...

http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa070797.htm

"Haji (shame) is said to form the core of Japanese culture. Japanese culture is described as "shame culture " in contrast to Western "guilt culture". In the west one can say that one's behavior is based, or dictated, by a sense of guilt resulting from one's actions. The feeling of guilt in the west is an internal feeling; the feeling of shame in Japan is an external feeling. This is not to suggest that the west is shameless, but rather that historically, Japan, has placed a great deal upon the feeling of shame. One can look to the samurai period for an example of shame. For a samurai, being put to shame in front of the public was as good as death."
2013-02-27 12:33:11 AM  
3 votes:
Well, if the Japanese aren't actually conduction research and instead are harvesting the whales for food (and they are) then this ruling is meaningless.
2013-02-27 12:31:37 AM  
3 votes:
Sea Shepherd activists have collided with Japanese ships in campaign to halt whale hunts.

Haven't Japanese ships deliberately collided with Sea Shepherd ships, ramming and destroying and sinking them?

Has Sea Shepherd ever floated a craft that could ram and sink a whaling ship?

Has a treaty-busting Jap whaling ship ever faced credible threat of being rammed and sunk by a Sea Shepherd zodiac?
2013-02-27 12:29:23 AM  
3 votes:

Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.


Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?
2013-02-27 12:29:08 AM  
3 votes:
Sea Shepherd ships, sailing from Australia, often block or harass whaling vessels from the Institute of Cetacean Research, sometimes resulting in collisions.

i9.photobucket.com

www.timeslive.co.za

Yeah, they're ramming them. On a related note I once beat up a guy by repeatedly hitting his fist with my face.
2013-02-27 12:27:37 AM  
3 votes:
Pirates, terrorists...either name fits these whackjobs.  I hope that one day the captain of a bigger ship gets pissed off and rams and sinks their little sea turd.
2013-02-27 12:26:38 AM  
3 votes:
I would pay top dollar to watch the Japanese hang those fairies.
2013-02-27 12:23:30 AM  
3 votes:

Oldiron_79: Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


It's a shame the way you're forced to sit down and watch it against your will and all.
2013-02-27 08:06:35 AM  
2 votes:

Digipr0f69: Draq: Digipr0f69:
50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming. Japan is actively trying to farm raise blue fin.
http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature10.html

That's probably because of the time they got penalized for taking in over fifty times their allowed bluefin quota.

Do you have a citation for that?


I do, actually. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/oct/17/fishing.food
2013-02-27 07:42:29 AM  
2 votes:
1) It's not Australian waters. It's an economic exclusion zone (EEZ). 12 miles from shore is the internationally recognized limit and any warship from any nation has a right to be there, including those that use heavy fuels as they are specifically excluded from the treaty that governs the use of heavy fuels below 60s. Those waters also fall under the Antarctic treaty which limits almost any military actions outside of a declared war.

2) Technically speaking now that the Sea Shepherds have been deemed in a US Federal court to be a pirate organization any SS ship in US waters or in international waters (EEZ excluded) can (and probably will in the case of US territorial or EEZ waters) be confiscated by US Naval or Coast Guard ships and any current or future crew members that set foot on US shores can be arrested and prosecuted as maritime pirates.

This means that in theory the US could wait until the SS ships are transiting on the high seas at which time they could be boarded and the ships and all equipment aboard confiscated while the crew could be prosecuted under international maritime piracy laws. As it stands the Sea Shepherds have done what they can to minimize the odds of this happening by having Watson (the former Captain) step down and take a position as a deck hand (although any court is still going to see this as a thinly veiled legal tactic and may still consider Watson to be the de-facto captain of any Sea Shepherd ship that he is on, but it's all that the Sea Shepherds can do aside from putting him ashore permanently as he is specifically mentioned in this legal ruling).

The Sea Shepherds have brought this all upon themselves and will get no sympathy from me if they end up being prosecuted and put out of business. They have repeatedly and intentionally placed or attempted to place themselves and others lives in dire risk on the high seas.
2013-02-27 05:43:34 AM  
2 votes:

albatros183: People that kill whalers deserve the hero tag

/Kill one of the few not evil sapient species, your stupid


Moron. Seriously.

Whales are basically seagoing cows. If they had been half as smart as people like you thought they were, there would be no such thing as whaling. Why? Because they'd be gone long before the whalers show up.
2013-02-27 05:13:26 AM  
2 votes:

bikkurikun: Give quotas for whale species that are not endangered anymore so they can be hunted sustainably, and in turn get rid of the "research" loophole


totally agreed
until then the japs are on par with the pirates in my mind
but I agree
2013-02-27 04:51:40 AM  
2 votes:

ThunderPelvis: me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens


Numbers, mainly. There are (gu)es(s)timates that there have been only a thousand blue whales, worldwide, in 1991. I have a number in front of me that (gu)es(s)timates the number of cows in the US alone (2008) at slightly under a hundred million. I don't know how reliable either of these numbers are, but I have no special reason to question their order of magnitude.

I didn't look up pigs or chickens, but I expect, given that they're a heavily managed species, that their numbers are equally (and perpetually) impressive.
2013-02-27 04:06:03 AM  
2 votes:

Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?


There are other fish that are actually overfished and endangered, but Sea Shepherd doesn't give a fark about those fish. They'd rather expend their resources on unendangered minke because it makes for better TV and because people like you have fee-fees for whales and will give them money so they can be travelling, shiftless bums in *style*
2013-02-27 03:54:45 AM  
2 votes:

gravebayne2: ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...

there are plenty of pigs left.


There are plenty of Minke whales left, too. I still don't see douchey attention whores setting up around slaughterhouses.
2013-02-27 03:03:51 AM  
2 votes:

Slartibartfaster: phalamir: start sinking the Japanese boats

we confiscate them and ransom the crew


That would certainly justify lethal force and would be the dumbest thing Sea Shepherd could possibly do...even dumber than what they are doing now, which is *assuredly* increasing domestic pressure in Japan to continue whaling.
2013-02-27 02:36:54 AM  
2 votes:

Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


Those are .... not your waters yank
Those are ours

fark you and the walrus you rode in on
2013-02-27 02:33:39 AM  
2 votes:
Seems like an easy solution. Push for the Aussies and the New Zealanders to confiscate the illegal whaling vessels when they are in their waters, as there aren't supposed to be any whaler ships left anywhere outside of the few nation's exempted from whaling in their territorial waters.

If that actually happened then the Sea Shepards would cease to need to exist, and perhaps the crews could actually use their skills to improve knowledge of the sea like some of them actually have been trained to do. In fact, I'm sure that most of them never really wanted to interfere with shipping in any way, except that it was the only way that they saw that the problem could be spot lighted and possibly corrected.

However, the money/treaty considerations won out again, and the people trying to stop something that is illegal, harmful and completely unneccesary, are now branded the outlaws/pirates/brigands etc. Woohoo, justice has been well served, apparently with a side of well done whale blubber again!

I swear if we could get out of the mentality of the 1800's, maybe the rest of the life on this world will have a chance with us on it, and we'll have a better chance to stay viable as well.
2013-02-27 01:50:18 AM  
2 votes:
About damned time.

Now, can we toss Bob Barker's ass in jail for funding these pirates? The man knowingly contributed millions to these assholes, specifically for their ecoterrorist activities, and they named a friggin' ship after him.
2013-02-27 01:35:32 AM  
2 votes:

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.

Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There
are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.





Have you ever navigated a large river with barge traffic? I'm guessing no. Let clue you into something. Big vessels don't stop if something suddenly pull into thier path. The whalers would always have right of way over a speedy vessel crossing its path. It's no different then expecting a train to stop
2013-02-27 01:27:25 AM  
2 votes:

msupf: Over 5,000 tons of the meat go unsold in public markets, and it would be worse if it weren't for whale meat being used in school meals, which still goes largely unused but is considered 'consumed' or 'sold' in most metrics, so waste isn't measured on that end.
The latest data shows that current consumption is around 1% of record recorded highs.

Sadly, the Japanese govt answer to this is to force the allowance of even more whaling, and increasing kill quotas by several hundred whales.... But wait, I thought the killing was for research purposes and the flesh and carcass were being reclaimed as food because it had to be. D'oh!


And as I (and others) have noted...pretty much the whole reason it's continuing is:

a) Basically the Japanese do have a social concept rather akin to the concept of Southern Honor, and really don't take it well when told they are doing a Bad Thing (hence why the atrocities of WW II are STILL not generally taught in Japanese schools, among other things)--there really, really is a HUGE cultural stigma re shame and being shamed, to the point that death is seen as better (not making this up).

b) Pretty much because the rest of the world IS rubbing their nose in it and pointing out "YOU DO THIS BAD THING", Japan pretty much is doing MOAR whaling to show them how wrong they are rather than admit that the whole whaling thing is a waste at this point--because they CANNOT lose national face.

c) Hence generations of Japanese kids learning to loathe whale meat about the same way we learned to hate Barfaroni and "school hamburgers" in public schools.

(And yes, probably the easiest way to understand the Japanese mindset on this without living in Japan is to see some of the reactions in the Southeast US in particular re the Confederacy and particularly the Confederate battle flag--even people who agree that the actions of the Confederacy re slavery were heinous will often go ballistic when it's noted that the rest of the world tends to think of the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of gross ignorance at best if not a frank hate symbol not unlike the Nazi misuse of the swastika.  They pretty much see it as an attack on their very identity. :P)

Hence why I say that the best way to have stopped whaling in Japan was to point out that nobody eats the shiat, everyone thinks it's horrible food not even fit for giving to the family cat, and that they're spending millions if not billions of yen to hunt whales that nobody wants to eat and nobody outside of Inuvik even considers food...and that even the Inuit only want the blubber and want THAT to be well and properly "fermented" first, preferably for the better part of a year.  Point out that millions if not billions of yen are being spent getting folks filthy in whaling for stuff nobody in their right mind eats in Japan. :3
2013-02-27 01:19:19 AM  
2 votes:
These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.
2013-02-27 01:17:48 AM  
2 votes:

Thunderbox: The US federal court can go fark itself. It has no jurisdiction in international waters.

The jurisdiction is based on where the representative company is incorporated, so in this case the 9th has jurisdiction.

otherwise, yeah what you said
2013-02-27 01:05:35 AM  
2 votes:

Deathfrogg: The Sea Shepard ships are flagged in New Zealand and Australia. Australia has claimed sovereignty over the whole southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica, and ANZUS maritime treaties back that claim. The Japanese are poaching in Australian national waters.


Then all the better reason for the Sea Shepherd to have worked with the Australian and/or New Zealand governments to get a formal letter of marque and reprisal (which would have legally covered their ass from claims of piracy, of note; with that letter, they're basically working as a private agent authorised expressly by the government to prevent whaling ships from conducting illegal activity, and Japan would have to biatch to the Australian or New Zealand government instead of trying to prosecute the Sea Shepherd crew for what is seen as the One Big Unforgivable in maritime law).

I'm not a fan of the tactics they use, but I can at least understand WHY they're going for direct action--but again, maritime law is a rather different beast than On-Shore National Law and the potential penalties for monkeywrenching are sufficiently severe that you really want to cover your ass doing this--and if you can cover your ass by having an official governmental document basically making you James Bond of the High Seas, even better.

(And by "considerably more serious"...well, for similar bits of monkeywrenching on land you'd just at best get charged with vandalism or felony destruction of property, you might get a restraining order against you, but even if your group is part of an organised domestic terrorist organisation you still aren't going to have as severe penalties as Monkeywrenching At Sea.  The latter tends to be defined as the Crime of Sabotage or the Crime of Piracy, both of which are literally capital offenses in many countries--piracy in particular is taken so seriously that in some countries the only death penalty offenses that remain on the books are the crimes of high treason and piracy.  In general, the US military doesn't have carte blanche to blow your ass up for wrecking a company that conducts cruel and unnecessary animal testing; they do if you're considered to be interfering with a ship at sea to the point it causes major property damage.  Hence why you want to be very, very careful re Direct Action At Sea.)
2013-02-27 12:51:56 AM  
2 votes:
The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.
2013-02-27 12:48:47 AM  
2 votes:
Whole lotta chest thumping from the ITGs in this thread.
2013-02-27 12:45:18 AM  
2 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

The US is involved for a number of reasons:

a) Many (if not all) the Sea Shepherd crew are US nationals.  (This is about as close as one gets to a "flag nation" with the Sea Shepherd--it explicitly does NOT fly under a national flag in an attempt to avoid international jurisdiction with their actions against whaling ships.)
b) More likely, the US is involved due to international maritime treaties that allow ANY country--actually mandate it in some cases--to take action in the event of actions that would be defined as piracy under maritime law.  (Yes, we're a signatory to these, hence why the Navy will sometimes escort ships through the Gulf of Aden.  And, yes, technically, harassing a ship in international waters to make it stop travel or its business whilst explictly flying the Jolly Roger in an attempt to not fly under a flag nation's protecting power and NOT acting under a formal marque of reprisal from a nation does meet the modern definition of piracy.)

/the right way would be for the crew of the Sea Shepherd to get a letter of marque and reprisal from the Australian government--seeing as the latter has technically forbidden whaling in these waters
//yes, letters of marque and reprisal do still exist in international maritime law.  They've not really been used since the 1800s and at the latest possibly WW I (since then, there has been a real shift towards drafting commercial ships into the Merchant Marine during times of warfare-- ...


The Sea Shepard ships are flagged in New Zealand and Australia. Australia has claimed sovereignty over the whole southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica, and ANZUS maritime treaties back that claim. The Japanese are poaching in Australian national waters.
2013-02-27 12:43:51 AM  
2 votes:

al's hat: shame the Japanese


"shame"? The Japanese?

Is this the very first day in your entire young life you've logged into the Internets?
2013-02-27 12:39:48 AM  
2 votes:

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


they don't hate all sea life -- ever seen one of those freaky/creepy pornos where the asian lady does crazy stuff with an octopus?

On a serious note -- If I was out making a living and these hippy douche rockets showed up ramming my boat and being dicks. Yeah I'd have a mounted .50cal on the deck. I think the whaling boats have shown great restraint only using water cannons up until now. They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.

You'd probably be pretty pissed if I showed up uninvited to your job, and tore up all your papers, destroyed your computer, and constantly was ramming my chair into your chair.


Since they are pirates now -- do we get to watch some more awesome stuff where they take the hippy cock gobblers out with a sniper shot from a rolling and bobbing boat?
2013-02-27 12:33:33 AM  
2 votes:
2013-02-27 12:23:39 AM  
2 votes:
bradfordschmidt.com

They fly a pirate flag, so they should be treated as such.
2013-02-27 12:20:43 AM  
2 votes:
yeah, somehow I doubt this is going to stop the Sea Shepard's from doing what their doing.
2013-02-27 12:19:01 AM  
2 votes:

Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


From a gibbet at the harbor entrance.
2013-02-27 12:18:32 AM  
2 votes:
So now the RIAA can file an injunction against them.
2013-02-27 12:16:50 AM  
2 votes:
That definition of piracy feels like a stretch.
2013-02-28 10:17:09 PM  
1 votes:

StRalphTheLiar: Radioactive Ass: Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.

If you think anyone on the Sea Shepherd vessels has any sort of license or training, you must have never seen the show. They are clueless as to any sort of maritime laws or conventions. I remember at one point they had a "First Mate" who was incapable of reading a compass and a "Communications Officer" whose expertise was in web design.


By law every registered merchant ship has to have someone aboard with a masters license. The rest of the crew operates under his\her supervision and is why the Captains of all ships are considered responsible for everything that happens on his ship (traditionally the Captain is the one with the license but it's not a hard and fast rule, it's just that nobody with any intelligence is going to risk their careers by putting their license on the line without having an absolute final say in what is being done aboard ship). They are supposed to train the crew (or at least certify that they are competent through previous training and experience). I did watch the show and for at least one season they had an ex-USN navigation officer (or at least that was the claim being made) and from what I saw I believed it, she tried to set up some training as it should have been done properly and was shut down by the first mate because it was too hard or something stupid like that.

I could go on and on railing against what I've seen on that show and just how wrong they did just about everything but I don't feel like writing a book right now...
2013-02-28 10:00:18 PM  
1 votes:

Radioactive Ass: Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.


If you think anyone on the Sea Shepherd vessels has any sort of license or training, you must have never seen the show. They are clueless as to any sort of maritime laws or conventions. I remember at one point they had a "First Mate" who was incapable of reading a compass and a "Communications Officer" whose expertise was in web design.
2013-02-28 08:07:36 PM  
1 votes:

johnny_vegas: this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking, and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.


Not true. In the most recent incident that I've seen on video the two whaling ships were side by side in an underway replenishment configuration. They are by definition limited in course and speed changes. The Sea Shepherds intent was to disrupt that evolution by getting in the middle and make them break off the unrep early. They knew or should have known that they were going to be causing a collision situation as it's a part of the coursework to understand what happens when two or more ships are close aboard and parallel to each other (if you are not aware of the physics involved it means that they tend to get sucked in to each other and the closer they are the greater the suction). It's a very dangerous situation even on a good day

Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.

There are also other non-inland situations where a ships course and speed are encumbered such as fishing trawlers. Regardless of that every experienced mariner knows that a really big ship can't stop on a dime (the general assumption for an average cargo ship is at least 4k yards from transit speed to stopped in an emergency stop situation and those ships generally speaking loathe to slow down, much less stop) and course changes are similarly limited in that they aren't going to result in all that rapid of a bearing change.

The only smaller ships that have the right of way over larger ships are the ones under power by sail or that have lost steerage due to a mechanical failure (and are displaying the proper makings as such). Even then the sailing craft usually give up their right of way whenever possible because lets face it, steel will always win over wood, fiberglass or thin aluminum.

All of this is common knowledge and basic rule of thumb type stuff that everyone with a masters license knows quite well. The responsible ones will go out of their way to avoid such situations from becoming a problem by anticipating other ships movements miles before they might become an issue and making minor course and speed corrections early. The irresponsible ones apparently go work for Sea Shepherds.
2013-02-28 12:20:06 PM  
1 votes:

Deathfrogg: The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.


Actually, it is the duty of the smaller vessel to avoid the larger one. The larger ship is not as capable of stopping or manuvering.

/has a boating license.
//to putter around a lake in a 5hp dinghy
2013-02-28 04:08:32 AM  
1 votes:

Draq: Yeah that's a lovely cop out isn't it, blaming people who are indirectly harming recovery efforts through honestly very little fault of their own given the technologies most people have access to and the low level of choice you actually have in what your lifestyle requires.


What, you whale-worshipers don't have access to bicycles? You don't have access to re-usable shopping bags? You can't not fill your homes with junk you don't need?

No, I think I'm going to keep putting a good amount of blame on the people who are deliberately going out and killing endangered species.

...And I'll keep on pointing out that you're a hypocrite.

The real danger whales face is from pollution. Whaling is irrelevant by comparison, but by all means, keep on telling  other people to change. You hypocrite.
2013-02-28 02:47:26 AM  
1 votes:

CliChe Guevara: phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

So very, very -THIS-

I think I only despise that group because they have such great funding and equipment and support, and only use it to fark around in rubber boats and play to cameras instead of just sinking the bastards. Not like anyone would care, the Japanese are violating so many laws, both international and those of the sovereign areas they are operating in.

 I have been to Australia and NZ, and seen what happens when the Sea Shepard ships come in (celebration), and the Japanese ships come in (seizure under various pretenses). I don't think much investigation would be done if someone just straight up torpedoed or limpet mined that factory ship.


The only people who "celebrate" the Sea Shepherd arrival are the left wing Greenpeace members. Nobody else here gives a toss. In fact, I'd be willing to bet more people feel ill-will toward the Sea Shepherd than feel empathy or solidarity towards it.
2013-02-28 02:25:34 AM  
1 votes:

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

So very, very -THIS-

I think I only despise that group because they have such great funding and equipment and support, and only use it to fark around in rubber boats and play to cameras instead of just sinking the bastards. Not like anyone would care, the Japanese are violating so many laws, both international and those of the sovereign areas they are operating in.

 I have been to Australia and NZ, and seen what happens when the Sea Shepard ships come in (celebration), and the Japanese ships come in (seizure under various pretenses). I don't think much investigation would be done if someone just straight up torpedoed or limpet mined that factory ship.
2013-02-27 09:46:45 PM  
1 votes:

liam76: Oldiron_79: liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.

International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.

The exclusive economic zone ends when it reaches Antarctic water.


Or more specifically beyond 60 degrees south (60s). The Antarctic treaty supersedes the EEZ in question. and AU\NZ knows this which is why they don't send in ships to get involved where whaling is concerned. It's a paper tiger not recognized by most nations and they don't want to open that can of worms because of the far reaching repercussions of nullifying that treaty. Unless of course you want to see drilling for oil and gas in the Southern Ocean instead, which is a distinct possibility if the treaty is broken.
2013-02-27 07:25:44 PM  
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."


It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.
2013-02-27 04:39:58 PM  
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]

Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/


Please cite what exact international maritime law they are breaking by section in the IMO regulatory framework? They are NOT breaking any international maritime law.

The NOAA link you provide only references the U.S. National Marine Sanctuaries Act which only covers U.S. national waters - nothing to do with the Antarctic.

Any type of agreement between countries about 'whale sanctuaries' has nothing to do with International Maritime Law.

I dislike the Japanese using the 'research exception' to whaling agreements between countries to perform commerical whaling but it is a huge stretch to sumise that this somehow violates International Maritime Law.
2013-02-27 04:01:08 PM  
1 votes:

VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.


1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.
2013-02-27 11:50:30 AM  
1 votes:

Bad_Seed: But the research is a sham. It's clearly a commercial/nationalistic peener waving operation. The Japanese are bending, if not outright breaking the rules, but few people seem to complain about that.


If that's the case then the only way to bring the whalers to justice (if they've committed a crime) is in court.  We can't just allow any private citizen with the right money and desire to go out into international waters and wage war, destroy property by breaking ship props, and assault the crews of other ships.  If that were the case, what's to stop anyone anywhere from taking up arms against say a cruise ship just because they feel like it?  The whole thing is mental.

I agree with the Sea Shepherds in that I think what the Japanese are doing is a breach of the treaties that exist, and it's actually pretty shiatty do be doing that commercially.  I didn't however have the same opinion about their activities when they visited the faroe islands.  The whaling there was akin to the tradition of individuals that hunt in the United States.  It was not a huge commercial operation trying to feed an enormous population with an unsustainable food source, like the Japanese whaling was.
2013-02-27 11:30:26 AM  
1 votes:
liam76:

But the research is a sham. It's clearly a commercial/nationalistic peener waving operation. The Japanese are bending, if not outright breaking the rules, but few people seem to complain about that.

I don't think you quite gasp what falling overboard in the middle of the ocean entails. Now, blocking somebody else's ship is one thing. Endangering somebody's life is another thing altogether, and the former does not justify the latter. But I've never seen people on Fark be able to understand that.

At the end of the day, Sea Sheppard are successful in at least disrupting and slowing down Japanese whaling and they are getting tons of support doing it. While you and me are sitting and home and providing armchair commentary. I'm not a fan of their tactics, but they do go out there and get shiat done. And for that they deserve a grudging respect.
2013-02-27 11:18:03 AM  
1 votes:

Bad_Seed: liam76:
I see you've got your GED in International Maritime Law. Better call up the ICJ in the Hague and tell them that the case is settled, liam76 of Fark.com has made a ruling. They should be pleased to hear of it.

I can't get behind that.  Every action that the Japanese has taken has only been possible because Sea shepard is doing dangerous and illegal things.  If they aren't dressed to handle water, they aren't dressed for the envoronment they are working in.

It's not about the clothes, you idiot. I high pressure water hose can knock you arse over tits. And if you're on deck, it could easily turn into an MOB, which is doubly dangerous if you have two vessels alongside. The water cannon are unnecessarily dangerous, even if Sea Sheppard are blocking them from whaling or refuelling, it doesn't justify endangering their crew.


Do you know what else is dangerous, pulling your boat close enough to a giant ass ship that they can hit you with a water cannon.
2013-02-27 11:07:57 AM  
1 votes:
liam76:
I see you've got your GED in International Maritime Law. Better call up the ICJ in the Hague and tell them that the case is settled, liam76 of Fark.com has made a ruling. They should be pleased to hear of it.

I can't get behind that.  Every action that the Japanese has taken has only been possible because Sea shepard is doing dangerous and illegal things.  If they aren't dressed to handle water, they aren't dressed for the envoronment they are working in.

It's not about the clothes, you idiot. I high pressure water hose can knock you arse over tits. And if you're on deck, it could easily turn into an MOB, which is doubly dangerous if you have two vessels alongside. The water cannon are unnecessarily dangerous, even if Sea Sheppard are blocking them from whaling or refuelling, it doesn't justify endangering their crew.
2013-02-27 11:05:12 AM  
1 votes:
I'm at the point that I consider endangered species above most of my fellow humans.   If I were a billionaire I'd buy these guys an old diesel sub and some torpedoes.   Blow the whaling ships and then surface, with a bunch of zodiacs for the survivors to run and tell others of how dangerous the industry has become.
2013-02-27 10:18:48 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: I am generally against (asided from light whaling of non endangered species), but anyone with half a brain who has even seen their show (much less researched them) knows that sea shepard and his ilk do routinely break maritime laws and have aboslutely no problem lying.


But do go out there, put their arses on the line and stop the Japanese from whaling. The Japanese fleet only caught 10 whales this season and had to call off the hunt after the controversial "ramming" incidents. And if you've noticed, Sea Sheppard now has more money, more ships and more support than ever, so despite their douchiness, they are doing something right. Technically the Australian coast guard should be the ones enforcing the anti whaling rules in the Souther Ocean, but they don't want to have a diplomatic spat with Japan over a bunch of whales, so in the end it's up to people like Sea Sheppard to step in were the authorities refuse to act.

I don't like many of their tactics either, especially their dishonesty when talking to the media, but you have to respect the fact that they go out there and they get results.

/of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing.
2013-02-27 08:55:39 AM  
1 votes:

Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law


[citation needed]
2013-02-27 08:51:15 AM  
1 votes:

DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.


Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law
2013-02-27 07:45:56 AM  
1 votes:

bikkurikun: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:

Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.

Oh, come on. Do some actual research yourself. Again, the "whale sanctuary" is something that is unilaterally declared by Australia, concerning areas over which other countries do not accept Australia's claim. They can declare what they want, but they do not have any real jurisdiction over it, and it is certainly not covered in any treaty to which Japan is a member. Japan, or any other country operating in the whale sanctuary is therefore doing nothing in contradiction with international maritime law.


As for the fuel oil, that could be in violation of the marpol treaty to which japan is a member, but you would first have to proof that it is actually the case. So far there is only a suspicion /accusation voiced by sea shepherd but no proof.


No proof??? The ship was REFUELLING from the farking thing!! How simple-minded ARE you, exactly?

Sorry, I'd love to stay up past midnight reading your astonishingly stupid posts, but I've got to work tomorrow...
2013-02-27 07:42:02 AM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: All commercial ships should mount at least four 50 caliber machine guns on them to deter piracy.

At the first biological weapon hurled (and yes, the anti-whaling pussies do this), open fire. Problem goes away within a month.


So basically you're advocating declaring war on Australia. Because that's what bringing an armed vessel into international waters and attacking somebody means.
2013-02-27 07:41:23 AM  
1 votes:

Draq: http://www.asoc.org/issues-and-advocacy/antarctic-wildlife-conservat io n/southern-ocean-whale-sanctuary



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctuary#Dispute_o v er_legality">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctu ary#Dispute_ov er_legality

No court or external body has ruled if it is legal.

Your own link mentions the area, and also mentions Japan's research permit there, and while it questions it's scientific value it never says it is illegal.

Draq: http://2041.com/ban-on-heavy-fuel-oil-in-antarctica/


Thanks, but where is the proof that Japan is violating this?


I am generally against (asided from light whaling of non endangered species), but anyone with half a brain who has even seen their show  (much less researched them) knows that sea shepard and his ilk do routinely break maritime laws and have aboslutely no problem lying.

I have no problem believing that Japan may be breaking laws, but I have seen no proof.
2013-02-27 07:41:00 AM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: RealFarknMcCoy2: Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.

Though, to point out that we're a bit off the rails here, this thread is about a random set of assholes who sabotage ship propulsion in arctic waters getting called out on it, which is illegal as all hell and criminal in the moral sense even if what their victims are doing is also bullshiat.

It's sort of like if a restaurant refused to serve me because I'm black, and in response I pulled a gun and killed the maitre'd and sous chef.  Yes, they're breaking the law, but I'm still a filthy murderer that deserves every bit of jail time I've got coming.  Two wrongs and so on.


Except, of course, Sea Shepherd have not harmed or killed anyone at all, so your analogy is completely full of shiat. But other than that, yeah, they are both breaking laws. Sea Shepherd is breaking the law in protest, kinda like Rosa Parks did. Or like anti-forestry protesters do.
2013-02-27 07:38:44 AM  
1 votes:

RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:

Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.


Oh, come on. Do some actual research yourself. Again, the "whale sanctuary" is something that is unilaterally declared by Australia, concerning areas over which other countries do not accept Australia's claim. They can declare what they want, but they do not have any real jurisdiction over it, and it is certainly not covered in any treaty to which Japan is a member. Japan, or any other country operating in the whale sanctuary is therefore doing nothing in contradiction with international maritime law.


As for the fuel oil, that could be in violation of the marpol treaty to which japan is a member, but you would first have to proof that it is actually the case. So far there is only a suspicion /accusation voiced by sea shepherd but no proof.
2013-02-27 07:36:12 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: The hippies are not in Australian waters. All countries gave up thier Antarctic claims so that none can exploit its minerals etc. When the a$&holes touch the Japanese ships and step on them that's illegal boarding. An armed response is warranted then. Btw if the Aussies are harboring these pirates then the Japanese can enter any port they are sailing out of and sink the ships.


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.
2013-02-27 07:20:59 AM  
1 votes:

pkellmey: They are acting like pirates, it's good that the courts recognize that fact. If they want change, they really need to rally the forces behind changing international treaty limits on whaling.


The limit on whaling for food is 0. The Japanese are flouting the law in numerous ways. Australia should start confiscating the Japanese whaling ships, but sadly, won't.
2013-02-27 07:19:31 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76: fark them.

If Japan got aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.

No you wouldn't, you pussy. This shiat takes place in Antarctica, and you haven't got the gonads to spend time on a ship in Antarctica. You'd freeze your tiny little dick off.

/farking ITG pussies - I hate em Love thinking about their dicks!

FTFY.

RealFarknMcCoy2: No it isn't. I've listed several of the illegal things the Japanese are doing.

You have claimed severl things are illegal but provided no proof.


Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.
2013-02-27 07:16:29 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: RealFarknMcCoy2: Entering Australian waters with an armed ship - When did this happen?
Taking a ship with heavy fuel into the Antarctic - What treaty are they party to that doesn't allow this?
Whaling illegally in a wildlife refuge - What treaty are they party to that declares it a wildlife refuge?  I thought Australia was unilaterally declaring that.
Killing whales for food, while claiming it is "research" - What treaty are they party to that says whales used for research can't later be eaten?

RealFarknMcCoy2: etc. etc. But you go right ahead and keep believing that the Japanese are in the right and those "damned hippies" are the ones who are doing wrong.

I don't think they are "in the right" but I don't believe they are breaking the law.
Change the laws treaties if you have a problem with their actions, don't go out and attack or vandalize their ships.


Just some quick googling, but...

http://2041.com/ban-on-heavy-fuel-oil-in-antarctica/
http://www.asoc.org/issues-and-advocacy/antarctic-wildlife-conservat io n/southern-ocean-whale-sanctuary
2013-02-27 07:08:11 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: fark them.

If Japan got aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.


No you wouldn't, you pussy. This shiat takes place in Antarctica, and you haven't got the gonads to spend time on a ship in Antarctica. You'd freeze your tiny little dick off.

/farking ITG pussies - I hate em!
2013-02-27 07:05:43 AM  
1 votes:

bikkurikun: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

No. What the Japanese do is completely legal. Australia though, is not following international laws by declaring certain areas "protected" eventhough they have no internationally accepted jurisdiction over those areas.

The Japanese are acting in full compliance with international laws and treaties. Australia and Sea Shepherd are not.


No it isn't. I've listed several of the illegal things the Japanese are doing. They are most certainly NOT acting in full compliance with international laws and treaties. Neither is Sea Shepherd, but I have a lot more sympathy for them, as they are acting non-violently in protest against the illegal actions of the Japanese.
2013-02-27 06:54:48 AM  
1 votes:

Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.


Japanese whaling falls under research laws.  I don't agree witht hat, but the courts do.

Japanese ships have never rammed sea shepard, any more than you would "ram" a car that cut you off and slammed on their brakes before it was physically possible for you to slam the breaks.

fark them.

If Japan got  aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.
2013-02-27 06:36:42 AM  
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: Deathfrogg: The Sea Shepard ships are flagged in New Zealand and Australia. Australia has claimed sovereignty over the whole southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica, and ANZUS maritime treaties back that claim. The Japanese are poaching in Australian national waters.

Then all the better reason for the Sea Shepherd to have worked with the Australian and/or New Zealand governments to get a formal letter of marque and reprisal (which would have legally covered their ass from claims of piracy, of note; with that letter, they're basically working as a private agent authorised expressly by the government to prevent whaling ships from conducting illegal activity, and Japan would have to biatch to the Australian or New Zealand government instead of trying to prosecute the Sea Shepherd crew for what is seen as the One Big Unforgivable in maritime law).

I'm not a fan of the tactics they use, but I can at least understand WHY they're going for direct action--but again, maritime law is a rather different beast than On-Shore National Law and the potential penalties for monkeywrenching are sufficiently severe that you really want to cover your ass doing this--and if you can cover your ass by having an official governmental document basically making you James Bond of the High Seas, even better.

(And by "considerably more serious"...well, for similar bits of monkeywrenching on land you'd just at best get charged with vandalism or felony destruction of property, you might get a restraining order against you, but even if your group is part of an organised domestic terrorist organisation you still aren't going to have as severe penalties as Monkeywrenching At Sea.  The latter tends to be defined as the Crime of Sabotage or the Crime of Piracy, both of which are literally capital offenses in many countries--piracy in particular is taken so seriously that in some countries the only death penalty offenses that remain on the books are the crimes of high treason and piracy.  In ...


The US are definitely NOT going to blow anyone's ass up over this. It's taking place in AUSTRALIAN waters, and if the US sent a warship into Australian waters without invitation, that's an act of war against Australia. It may have escaped your attention, but the US and Australia are allies. NOT going to happen.
2013-02-27 06:30:53 AM  
1 votes:

Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.


Three things wrong with those three things.

1. The Japanese hunt sei and sperm whale, which are endangered.
2. Japan doesn't eat the crap, nobody wants it. They just want the whaling culture.
3. It's EVERYONE's business when they hunt a migratory species, and it's very definitely Australia's business when they're doing it in Australian waters.
2013-02-27 06:25:43 AM  
1 votes:

accelerus: Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?

they don't hate all sea life -- ever seen one of those freaky/creepy pornos where the asian lady does crazy stuff with an octopus?

On a serious note -- If I was out making a living and these hippy douche rockets showed up ramming my boat and being dicks. Yeah I'd have a mounted .50cal on the deck. I think the whaling boats have shown great restraint only using water cannons up until now. They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.

You'd probably be pretty pissed if I showed up uninvited to your job, and tore up all your papers, destroyed your computer, and constantly was ramming my chair into your chair.


Since they are pirates now -- do we get to watch some more awesome stuff where they take the hippy cock gobblers out with a sniper shot from a rolling and bobbing boat?


Actually, the Japanese are breaking numerous international laws, including, but not limited to:

Entering Australian waters with an armed ship
Taking a ship with heavy fuel into the Antarctic
Whaling illegally in a wildlife refuge
Killing whales for food, while claiming it is "research"

etc. etc. But you go right ahead and keep believing that the Japanese are in the right and those "damned hippies" are the ones who are doing wrong.

As for "cock gobblers", I guess you must really hate fellatio. Too bad for you.
2013-02-27 06:22:33 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: Minke whales are the same as wolves in the Upper Great Lakes and grizzlies in Montana/Idaho in that managed hunting should be allowed. By allowing limited hunts you satisfy all parties and keep the whaling culture intact.


THIS. But the do-gooder progressive idiots don't want the facts, they want to feel morally superior while telling others how to live their lives. Try to tell them how to live, though, and you'll never hear the end of "you can't tell me how to live. Don't force your morality onto me!11!!'.

Hypocrites.
2013-02-27 06:20:28 AM  
1 votes:
1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.
2013-02-27 06:14:08 AM  
1 votes:
OK, how does a US judge get to say anything about this at all??? Since when has the US had jurisdiction over what happens in Australian waters?? The US court can go fark itself.
2013-02-27 06:13:03 AM  
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: msupf: "Killing whales for research on their impact on our fisheries" is a bullshiat reason even if true, and they know it. How many other biological or environmental studies call for the wholesale murder of at-risk species in order to conduct the research? If you have to kill thousands every year, maybe the research isn't that necessary.

First of all, not all whales are endangered. Secondly, the real threat to the whales doesn't come from whaling, but from pollution. The pollution you're causing by the way you live. In part by the build-up of toxins in whales, in part by the carbonization of the ocean due to CO2 emission.

If you want to "save the whales," park your car / motorcycle for good and stop using products that result in toxins being released. Start by changing your life instead of demanding that others change theirs. Either that or accept that you're a smeggin hypocrite.

/yeah, I'm norwegian
//you whale lovers are a bunch of ignorant fools


Yeah that's a lovely cop out isn't it, blaming people who are indirectly harming recovery efforts through honestly very little fault of their own given the technologies most people have access to and the low level of choice you actually have in what your lifestyle requires.

No, I think I'm going to keep putting a good amount of blame on the people who are deliberately going out and killing endangered species.
2013-02-27 05:29:23 AM  
1 votes:

RatMaster999: It might be different if whale meat was really tasty...


it tastes like salty beef
(and the bones are precious to my ancestors for carving)
2013-02-27 05:23:20 AM  
1 votes:
I'm not sure who I hate more in this scenario.  At the moment, the hippie farks are in the wrong, and should be repelled with lethal force.  Still, I'd be happy to see the laws changed, so the Japanese have to stop whaling, or face the same level of force.

It might be different if whale meat was really tasty...
2013-02-27 05:09:40 AM  
1 votes:

Kraftwerk Orange: It's not that they hate whales, it's that they love them too much!

Love to eat them, that is.


Which is a nice little lie, actually.  According to a poll last year, only 10% of the polled populace had bought any in the last year, and most of them that had, only once.  They have thousands of tonnes of the stuff piled up in warehouses.

No one really wants to eat it, so they're forcing it on public schools for their mandatory school lunch programmes (all elementary schools serve lunch), and making it into dog food.

And since it's incredibly unprofitable, the industry survives only through large government subsidies, which 90% of the population are against.  Most Japanese don't give a raggedy rat's arse about whale meat or whaling.

Now, try and stop bluefin tuna fishing and you'll see the Japanese population rain down hellfire.
2013-02-27 05:00:20 AM  
1 votes:

sycraft: You can argue all you like about the moral standard, but the Sea Shepard people really have no legal standing. Park a small boat in the way of a big boat, you go squish.


What do you propose they do ? if a law is being abused.
Prepare a sternly written letter ?
2013-02-27 04:52:09 AM  
1 votes:

bakarocket: an organization with the goal of limiting the number of whales hunted in order to support a sustainable industry


I support this idea

a sustainable industry is an ideal goal

But the IWC is less than honest about their control of this one

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with killing and eating any animal
Whale meat is quite delicious, so are cute little bunny rabbits (best served with creamy blue cheese and bread crumbs) but what is being done by the Japanese whalers falls well short of honest business.
My current favourite food is donkey sandwiches.

The behaviour of Japanese whalers deserves more reaction than it is currently getting
2013-02-27 04:51:39 AM  
1 votes:
bakarocket:
Whose nation?

Now, are you aware of something called the International Whaling Commission, which is an organization with the goal of limiting the number of whales hunted in order to support a sustainable industry? And that through the actions of the IWC, whale populations are recovering? Not all of them, of course, which is why signatories to the treaty are limiting whaling of certain species.

Or did you think the IWC was trying to save whales because they are cute?


This happened in the US, and the conservation efforts to protect deer (which have been wildly successful and are still going on today) were actually started by hunters, so I'm not sure you really got the comparison there.

The issue is not with the minke whales. The issue is with Japan's BS "research" whaling, including the hunting of sei and sperm whales, both of which are endangered species.
2013-02-27 04:43:03 AM  
1 votes:

phalamir: issuing you a letter of marque


The US would also have to properly declare war for the letter of marque and reprisal to be valid. Otherwise, they'd still be committing piracy.
2013-02-27 04:41:53 AM  
1 votes:

Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?


Whose nation?

Now, are you aware of something called the International Whaling Commission, which is an organization with the goal of limiting the number of whales hunted in order to support a sustainable industry? And that through the actions of the IWC, whale populations are recovering? Not all of them, of course, which is why signatories to the treaty are limiting whaling of certain species.

Or did you think the IWC was trying to save whales because they are cute?
2013-02-27 04:41:08 AM  
1 votes:

bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: bakarocket: Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Where are there shortages of deer where hunters use commercial vessels to predate them ?

There are none. Just like there are no shortage of Minke Whales.


Too bad we can't say the same for the Sei or Bryde's whales which make up nearly 10% of Japanese catches, or the Fin whales that Norway likes to catch and sell to Japan.
2013-02-27 04:02:21 AM  
1 votes:

Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?


Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?
2013-02-27 03:58:33 AM  
1 votes:

ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.


Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?
2013-02-27 03:49:14 AM  
1 votes:

SwingDancer: BuckTurgidson: Sea Shepherd activists have collided with Japanese ships in campaign to halt whale hunts.

Haven't Japanese ships deliberately collided with Sea Shepherd ships, ramming and destroying and sinking them?

Has Sea Shepherd ever floated a craft that could ram and sink a whaling ship?

Has a treaty-busting Jap whaling ship ever faced credible threat of being rammed and sunk by a Sea Shepherd zodiac?

When you place a smaller ship in the path of a larger ship, and said larger ship runs you over, it is your own Damn fault.

I can't remember the exact name for it, but in maritime law it is the job of the smaller ship to get out of the way, not the larger one.

Law of gross tonnage?

The whaler ships are behemoths, the activist ships are small and fast.if they get smashed and all on board drown, it is their own Damn fault


IANAL but my understanding of it is basically the vessel with the ability to safely avoid collision  mustdo so.  There really is no hard rule of who has the "right of way" like on roads, and there's clear rules on how vessels approach each other and what signals from lighting to horn blasts mean.

From what I have seen in the show they have shown a clear disregard for all of these rules/laws and that any judge would side with them is appalling.

This is coming from someone who thinks a lot of the whaling practices are abhorrent.
2013-02-27 03:44:44 AM  
1 votes:

ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...


Use that explaination to counter consumption of dogs or horses
Whales are endangered.

gravebayne2: there are plenty of pigs left


^^ THAT
2013-02-27 03:42:33 AM  
1 votes:

ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...


Because most of them are endangered species. Japan are dicks and have no respect for wildlife conservation.
2013-02-27 03:40:41 AM  
1 votes:

ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...


there are plenty of pigs left.
2013-02-27 02:55:35 AM  
1 votes:

BuckTurgidson: Sea Shepherd activists have collided with Japanese ships in campaign to halt whale hunts.

Haven't Japanese ships deliberately collided with Sea Shepherd ships, ramming and destroying and sinking them?

Has Sea Shepherd ever floated a craft that could ram and sink a whaling ship?

Has a treaty-busting Jap whaling ship ever faced credible threat of being rammed and sunk by a Sea Shepherd zodiac?


When you place a smaller ship in the path of a larger ship, and said larger ship runs you over, it is your own Damn fault.

I can't remember the exact name for it, but in maritime law it is the job of the smaller ship to get out of the way, not the larger one.

Law of gross tonnage?

The whaler ships are behemoths, the activist ships are small and fast.if they get smashed and all on board drown, it is their own Damn fault
2013-02-27 02:13:09 AM  
1 votes:
I'm really surprised these guys don't just buy some black market torpedoes instead of another retired ship and just sink the whole damned whaling fleet. At least that would put an end to the steady stream of idiotic news stories!
2013-02-27 02:06:30 AM  
1 votes:
I watched about half of one of their shows and couldn't watch anymore. The whole organization reminded me of a slip and fall bully. They would go out and pick fights and then put themselves in positions to get hurt, then cry foul.

We had someone who would watch this show during their breaks at a former job of mine and he would tear up during the whole show. One day I laughed at him and he threw something at me out of anger, then I laughed harder. Great memories.....
2013-02-27 01:47:44 AM  
1 votes:

insertsnarkyusername: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?


They are doing it in Australian waters, which Australia has no control over. Which may sound odd, but it is because of a loophole in the Antarctic treaty. As part of the treaty, all of the nations with territorial claims agreed to forgo their claims of exclusivity to their waters in exchange for an agreement which prevented mining taking place in the Antarctic. So, if Australia tells Japan to bugger off and go home, the end result is that the treaty falls over and suddenly the US could start covering their Antarctic claims with oil wells (or something like that).
Australia is currently taking this issue to some international court of justice (or something like that) but that doesn't save any whales this year, while the self-righteous wankers on the boats are actually making a difference (which kind of excuses the wankeryness). The question of what (if any) force Australia can use and who (if anyone) can enforce parts of the treaty which the Japanese keep ignoring (like refuelling at sea within the protected zones) is a fun one. But I think that it would be much better in he long term if a government (Australia) sent navel or customs vessels to monitor this 'scientific' research, rather than rely on activists (and if we start defining activists as pirates or terrorists I am liable to start signing up for conspiracy theory websites about the new world order).
2013-02-27 01:43:15 AM  
1 votes:
An international treaty allows governments to kill whales for "research". Wink-wink -nudge-nudge
Yeah research into "How much do I tip for serving me banned food?"

Just stop you assholes, just. stop.
2013-02-27 01:39:55 AM  
1 votes:
wife watches this.  i will watch every once in awhile but i just don't get into it like she does.  sure I wish the whaling would stop, but come on they fly a pirate flag get me interested start ACTING like pirates for god sakes.  maybe a little something 'ala Jack Sparrow, pull alongside storm the ship and tell the whalers to join their crew or get set adrift on a passing iceberg with some Emperor Penguins.  see someone get run through on the end of a cutlass.  Yeah i know it ain't going to happen but like i said they fly the pirate flag, at least get that captain to stop crying every time he notices the camera is on him.
2013-02-27 01:35:56 AM  
1 votes:

Deathfrogg: Ima4nic8or: Pirates, terrorists...either name fits these whackjobs.  I hope that one day the captain of a bigger ship gets pissed off and rams and sinks their little sea turd.

The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker  does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.


apropos?
1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-02-27 01:32:21 AM  
1 votes:

ThunderPelvis: These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.


Will continue?  That's pretty much the only reason it continues now--it's literally the Japanese nationalistards' version of "Heritage Not Hate" at this point, and pretty much whaling only continues as an upraised middle finger to the rest of the world community who tells the Japanese government that they're doing Bad Things By Whaling (which pretty much in and of itself triggers the "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO SHAME ME DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU AREN'T THE MASTER OF ME" response in the Japanese national psyche).

I can definitely see why the Sea Shepherd does what it does, and I am NOT one of those who thinks whale should be on the menu (or whaled, period; we have jojoba oil and other substitutes for the OTHER stuff we used to whale for) but I can say that (based on what I have seen re the Japanese psyche and the American equivalent)...I worry that their actions may be counterproductive.
2013-02-27 01:29:54 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA:

"What Sea Shepherd Australia is doing with Australian flagged vessels and Dutch flagged vessels down in the Australian Antarctic territory is outside of any sort of control of the courts in the United States"

And well, that pretty much sums that up. Our courts have zero jurisdiction over this.
2013-02-27 01:28:27 AM  
1 votes:

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.

Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.


 I think the video clearly shows the smaller ships impeding the larger...they are deliberately getting in the way.  It appears their maneuvering in this video and others is a violation of maritime rules.

Also i do not think the australians have a valid claim to the entire southern ocean.  They have a validated excessive continental shelf true....and ANZUS recognition is nice but UNCLOS is what matters.
2013-02-27 01:27:08 AM  
1 votes:

msupf: Somebody just buy a couple of Russian torpedoes for these guys and sink the fricken Japanese whalers already.


I would think that they could buy or lease a Russian sub for much cheaper than all the money they have spent over the last couple years. Hell, I would donate for that mission as well. A little home made thermite would probably resolve the situation pretty quickly too.
2013-02-27 01:20:12 AM  
1 votes:

andychrist420: An IWC ban is not the same as international maritime law. Guess which one trumps the other.


Man, when you don't do your research, you really don't bother doing your research.  Maritime law regarding commercial fishing and such is enacted by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.  The implementation of the Convention as it regards whaling is delegated to the IWC, of which Japan is emphatically a member.  Guess which island nation to the East of China ratified the Convention?

/admittedly, the US has not ratified the Convention, although we are in the IWC
2013-02-27 01:16:50 AM  
1 votes:
I pretty much hate everyone involved here.
2013-02-27 01:07:10 AM  
1 votes:
If the whales are as smart as people make them out to be they should revolt against the Japanese. They could be like "BUBBLEBUBLBLblGGRR" which is "I'm tired of these biatches." and just start attacking.
2013-02-27 01:07:05 AM  
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: jtown: johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)

Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.

Actually, with this court ruling it could go far worse for them (and even though I consider the Sea Shepherd crew to be attention whores who are fighting "research whaling" for human consumption the Wrong Way, I do worry for them with the ruling).

You see, in general, piracy on the high seas is considered a military matter--to sum up maritime law on piracy in a Cliff's Notes version, pretty much once a group are considered pirates every navy in the world has carte blanche to blow the hell out of them--and in fact may be mandated to do so.  (Under US law in particular, life imprisonment is mandated for the crime of piracy...assuming the pirates make it to the US alive.  In the case of Japan, it could well be worse; Japan DOES have the death penalty on its books, though it's unknown to me whether piracy is considered a capital offense.)

/yes, folks, this is srs bzns
//still say the Right Way would have involved playing up how younger Japanese think whale is pretty farking disgusting; now the Japanese pretty much embrace whaling the way a dominionist embraces anti-LGBT hate because they're told YOU ARE WRONG AND HORRIBLE FOR THIS and they go HOW DARE YOU THIS IS MY CULTURE DAMNIT
///if they had to go all Captain Ahab (pun intended) on Japanese wha ...




Over 5,000 tons of the meat go unsold in public markets, and it would be worse if it weren't for whale meat being used in school meals, which still goes largely unused but is considered 'consumed' or 'sold' in most metrics, so waste isn't measured on that end.
The latest data shows that current consumption is around 1% of record recorded highs.

Sadly, the Japanese govt answer to this is to force the allowance of even more whaling, and increasing kill quotas by several hundred whales.... But wait, I thought the killing was for research purposes and the flesh and carcass were being reclaimed as food because it had to be. D'oh!

/I also don't think what the sea shepherds are doing is the best route, but bad ideas spring from the inaction or indifference of better minds.
2013-02-27 01:05:14 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: accelerus: They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.

It's illegal to whale for food unless you are an aborigine using what amounts to caveman tools.  Japan illegally issues scientific whale hunting permits to commercial fishermen who sell their catch on the market.

On 23 July 1982, members of the IWC voted by the necessary three-quarters majority to implement a pause on commercial whaling. The relevant text reads:

"Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits."


Well, nothing trumps an argument like a wiki link.  Thread over.  An IWC ban is not the same as international maritime law. Guess which one trumps the other.
2013-02-27 12:59:27 AM  
1 votes:

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


Read history, man.

tuesdaysinsunnypore.files.wordpress.com
2013-02-27 12:54:29 AM  
1 votes:

jtown: johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)

Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.


Actually, with this court ruling it could go far worse for them (and even though I consider the Sea Shepherd crew to be attention whores who are fighting "research whaling" for human consumption the Wrong Way, I do worry for them with the ruling).

You see, in general, piracy on the high seas is considered a military matter--to sum up maritime law on piracy in a Cliff's Notes version, pretty much once a group are considered pirates every navy in the world has carte blanche to blow the hell out of them--and in fact may be mandated to do so.  (Under US law in particular, life imprisonment is mandated for the crime of piracy...assuming the pirates make it to the US alive.  In the case of Japan, it could well be worse; Japan DOES have the death penalty on its books, though it's unknown to me whether piracy is considered a capital offense.)

/yes, folks, this is srs bzns
//still say the Right Way would have involved playing up how younger Japanese think whale is pretty farking disgusting; now the Japanese pretty much embrace whaling the way a dominionist embraces anti-LGBT hate because they're told YOU ARE WRONG AND HORRIBLE FOR THIS and they go HOW DARE YOU THIS IS MY CULTURE DAMNIT
///if they had to go all Captain Ahab (pun intended) on Japanese whalers, the Right Way is to get a formal letter of marque and reprisal from a country who is a signatory to the whaling ban, best bet would be Australia
2013-02-27 12:53:15 AM  
1 votes:
Is Sea Shepherd filled with douchebags? Yes.

Do they call attention to marine sustainability issues? Yes

Is whaling for research something that should end? Yes

2 outa 3 gets their shenanigans a shrug and a "Meh...." from me.

/if they really wanted to end things a few well placed magnesium flares would end things permanently, but how would they shill for donations then?
2013-02-27 12:49:46 AM  
1 votes:

accelerus: They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.


It's illegal to whale for food unless you are an aborigine using what amounts to caveman tools.  Japan illegally issues scientific whale hunting permits to commercial fishermen who sell their catch on the market.

On 23 July 1982, members of the IWC voted by the necessary three-quarters majority to implement a pause on commercial whaling. The relevant text reads:

"Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits."
2013-02-27 12:47:12 AM  
1 votes:
I went on a whaling mission with my Icelandic grandfather in 1984 at the age of 6. We harpooned a couple of small whales (I have pictures of them gutted on the pier but I don't know what species)and it fed a bunch of people in the small town of Isafjordur where he lived. Food was a precious commodity back then and they ate what ever they could get. My grandfather's brother died right in front of him when they were young while repelling down a cliff to get puffin eggs to feed the family.

That being said, these Japanese whalers are likely hunting the whales to make boner pills or something, the more exotic and endangered the harder the boner.
2013-02-27 12:46:35 AM  
1 votes:
When you ram ships; hurl glass containers of acid; drag metal-reinforced ropes in the water to damage propellers and rudders; launch smoke bombs and flares with hooks; and point high-powered lasers at other ships, you are, without a doubt, a pirate, no matter how high-minded you believe your purpose to be.

Well... yeah, pretty much.  I mean, the actual technical term is "terrorist" or "saboteur", but either of those things done in international waters falls under 'piracy', that's not a stretch at all.

Most of the "privateer" ships of the 1600s claimed to be morally superior, too (and many of the outright pirates, but that's more detailed history).  Didn't make 'em magically not pirates.

//If they were just blocking the ships or chasing the whales off with sonics, might be arguable.  When you're damaging the propulsion of a ship in arctic waters, you go all the way past douchery and come out on the side of outright attempted murder.
2013-02-27 12:42:53 AM  
1 votes:
And the japs are just doing scientific research.
2013-02-27 12:42:05 AM  
1 votes:
Ha!  I have to wonder if the money spent on outfitting ships to harass the whalers might be better spent trying to educate and shame the Japanese with advertising campaigns.  Sending ships to the Antarctic has got to cost a whole lot of money and what they let happen to the Ady Gil is reprehensible.
2013-02-27 12:38:59 AM  
1 votes:

johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)


Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.
2013-02-27 12:36:30 AM  
1 votes:

skinink: So now the RIAA can file an injunction against them.


+1
2013-02-27 12:35:04 AM  
1 votes:
bradfordschmidt.com
Shepherd.

i9.photobucket.com
Wrecks.
2013-02-27 12:33:32 AM  
1 votes:

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

Alternately, you could always bribe a Congressman to attach an amendment to some bill issuing you a letter of marque, so you have legal cover as long as you turn over half your swag (which will be zero, so amazingly easy to pay the bill).  One of my students once pointed out you could set up a table in any (or all) universities in the US and demand payment from the fratboy/athlete/bro-douche set to let them be pirates (ahem, privateers) in your employ.  Even with the 50% rake-off the feds would charge, you would be rolling in dough.  And the Japanese would be wondering why thousands of morons in Zodiacs were bearing down on them in waves.  Really it is a win-win-win-win (no whalers / no carbon-wasters / I have money / the feds pay off the national debt)


I been waiting for a pirate resurgence to wipe out global warming. This sounds like just the ticket. Can we get this ball rolling?
2013-02-27 12:32:37 AM  
1 votes:

jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.


i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)
2013-02-27 12:31:37 AM  
1 votes:

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


It's not that they hate whales, it's that they love them too much!

Love to eat them, that is.  Personally, I don't have a problem with that.  As long as they stick to their legal limits, in accordance to international laws.
2013-02-27 12:14:28 AM  
1 votes:
well they're a kind of pirate....
 
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