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(USA Today)   The guys who harass the Japanese whalers are officially pirates, says a federal court   (usatoday.com) divider line 299
    More: Obvious, Japanese, sea shepherd, Animal Planet, Australian courts, Japanese whalers, Whale Wars, pirates  
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8971 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Feb 2013 at 12:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-27 12:14:28 AM
well they're a kind of pirate....
 
2013-02-27 12:14:49 AM
I guess that global warming is declining then?
 
2013-02-27 12:14:53 AM
Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv
 
2013-02-27 12:16:41 AM
♪ We are the pirates... who don't do anything... ♫


/Pirate
//Does *some* things.
 
2013-02-27 12:16:50 AM
That definition of piracy feels like a stretch.
 
2013-02-27 12:18:32 AM
So now the RIAA can file an injunction against them.
 
2013-02-27 12:19:01 AM

Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


From a gibbet at the harbor entrance.
 
2013-02-27 12:20:09 AM
So, is this leading to getting to see Hayden Panettiere in a sexy pirate costume?  Please?
 
2013-02-27 12:20:43 AM
yeah, somehow I doubt this is going to stop the Sea Shepard's from doing what their doing.
 
2013-02-27 12:21:25 AM
People that kill whalers deserve the hero tag

/Kill one of the few not evil sapient species, your stupid
 
2013-02-27 12:22:37 AM
Pirate's vs Ninjas
 
2013-02-27 12:22:46 AM
Yo ho ho

media.treehugger.com
 
2013-02-27 12:23:18 AM
Why in the flying f*ck would anyone need to kill a whale to research it?  That institute sounds like a thinly veiled front.  Sort of like those tobacco research institutes that are just pro-cancer lobbyists.
 
2013-02-27 12:23:30 AM

Oldiron_79: Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


It's a shame the way you're forced to sit down and watch it against your will and all.
 
2013-02-27 12:23:39 AM
bradfordschmidt.com

They fly a pirate flag, so they should be treated as such.
 
2013-02-27 12:24:31 AM
Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?
 
2013-02-27 12:25:04 AM
Fahk a you Whale and Fahk a you Dolphin!
 
2013-02-27 12:25:43 AM
Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

Alternately, you could always bribe a Congressman to attach an amendment to some bill issuing you a letter of marque, so you have legal cover as long as you turn over half your swag (which will be zero, so amazingly easy to pay the bill).  One of my students once pointed out you could set up a table in any (or all) universities in the US and demand payment from the fratboy/athlete/bro-douche set to let them be pirates (ahem, privateers) in your employ.  Even with the 50% rake-off the feds would charge, you would be rolling in dough.  And the Japanese would be wondering why thousands of morons in Zodiacs were bearing down on them in waves.  Really it is a win-win-win-win (no whalers / no carbon-wasters / I have money / the feds pay off the national debt)
 
2013-02-27 12:26:16 AM
Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.
 
2013-02-27 12:26:17 AM

albatros183: People that kill whalers deserve the hero tag

/Kill one of the few not evil sapient species, your stupid


*you're
 
2013-02-27 12:26:38 AM
I would pay top dollar to watch the Japanese hang those fairies.
 
2013-02-27 12:26:54 AM

notn: yeah, somehow I doubt this is going to stop the Sea Shepard's from doing what their doing.

 
2013-02-27 12:27:37 AM
Pirates, terrorists...either name fits these whackjobs.  I hope that one day the captain of a bigger ship gets pissed off and rams and sinks their little sea turd.
 
2013-02-27 12:27:42 AM
While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.
 
2013-02-27 12:28:25 AM

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

Alternately, you could always bribe a Congressman to attach an amendment to some bill issuing you a letter of marque, so you have legal cover as long as you turn over half your swag (which will be zero, so amazingly easy to pay the bill).  One of my students once pointed out you could set up a table in any (or all) universities in the US and demand payment from the fratboy/athlete/bro-douche set to let them be pirates (ahem, privateers) in your employ.  Even with the 50% rake-off the feds would charge, you would be rolling in dough.  And the Japanese would be wondering why thousands of morons in Zodiacs were bearing down on them in waves.  Really it is a win-win-win-win (no whalers / no carbon-wasters / I have money / the feds pay off the national debt)



Interesting way of looking at it
 
2013-02-27 12:28:37 AM
Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free...
 
2013-02-27 12:29:08 AM
Sea Shepherd ships, sailing from Australia, often block or harass whaling vessels from the Institute of Cetacean Research, sometimes resulting in collisions.

i9.photobucket.com

www.timeslive.co.za

Yeah, they're ramming them. On a related note I once beat up a guy by repeatedly hitting his fist with my face.
 
2013-02-27 12:29:23 AM

Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.


Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?
 
2013-02-27 12:31:02 AM

Ima4nic8or: Pirates, terrorists...either name fits these whackjobs.  I hope that one day the captain of a bigger ship gets pissed off and rams and sinks their little sea turd.


The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker  does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.
 
2013-02-27 12:31:37 AM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


It's not that they hate whales, it's that they love them too much!

Love to eat them, that is.  Personally, I don't have a problem with that.  As long as they stick to their legal limits, in accordance to international laws.
 
2013-02-27 12:31:37 AM
Sea Shepherd activists have collided with Japanese ships in campaign to halt whale hunts.

Haven't Japanese ships deliberately collided with Sea Shepherd ships, ramming and destroying and sinking them?

Has Sea Shepherd ever floated a craft that could ram and sink a whaling ship?

Has a treaty-busting Jap whaling ship ever faced credible threat of being rammed and sunk by a Sea Shepherd zodiac?
 
2013-02-27 12:32:37 AM

jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.


i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)
 
2013-02-27 12:33:11 AM
Well, if the Japanese aren't actually conduction research and instead are harvesting the whales for food (and they are) then this ruling is meaningless.
 
2013-02-27 12:33:32 AM

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

Alternately, you could always bribe a Congressman to attach an amendment to some bill issuing you a letter of marque, so you have legal cover as long as you turn over half your swag (which will be zero, so amazingly easy to pay the bill).  One of my students once pointed out you could set up a table in any (or all) universities in the US and demand payment from the fratboy/athlete/bro-douche set to let them be pirates (ahem, privateers) in your employ.  Even with the 50% rake-off the feds would charge, you would be rolling in dough.  And the Japanese would be wondering why thousands of morons in Zodiacs were bearing down on them in waves.  Really it is a win-win-win-win (no whalers / no carbon-wasters / I have money / the feds pay off the national debt)


I been waiting for a pirate resurgence to wipe out global warming. This sounds like just the ticket. Can we get this ball rolling?
 
2013-02-27 12:33:33 AM
 
2013-02-27 12:35:04 AM
bradfordschmidt.com
Shepherd.

i9.photobucket.com
Wrecks.
 
2013-02-27 12:36:30 AM

skinink: So now the RIAA can file an injunction against them.


+1
 
2013-02-27 12:38:23 AM

WillyChase: phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

Alternately, you could always bribe a Congressman to attach an amendment to some bill issuing you a letter of marque, so you have legal cover as long as you turn over half your swag (which will be zero, so amazingly easy to pay the bill).  One of my students once pointed out you could set up a table in any (or all) universities in the US and demand payment from the fratboy/athlete/bro-douche set to let them be pirates (ahem, privateers) in your employ.  Even with the 50% rake-off the feds would charge, you would be rolling in dough.  And the Japanese would be wondering why thousands of morons in Zodiacs were bearing down on them in waves.  Really it is a win-win-win-win (no whalers / no carbon-wasters / I have money / the feds pay off the national debt)

I been waiting for a pirate resurgence to wipe out global warming. This sounds like just the ticket. Can we get this ball rolling?


Well, the power is explicitly enumerated, and belongs to Congress.  All you need is a Congressman you can bribe and/or who has a sense of humor, and you are one must-pass bill with too many amendments to read away from shivering your timbers legally
 
2013-02-27 12:38:59 AM

johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)


Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.
 
2013-02-27 12:39:22 AM

albatros183: People that kill whalers deserve the hero tag


Favorited.

/"sociopath"
 
2013-02-27 12:39:48 AM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


they don't hate all sea life -- ever seen one of those freaky/creepy pornos where the asian lady does crazy stuff with an octopus?

On a serious note -- If I was out making a living and these hippy douche rockets showed up ramming my boat and being dicks. Yeah I'd have a mounted .50cal on the deck. I think the whaling boats have shown great restraint only using water cannons up until now. They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.

You'd probably be pretty pissed if I showed up uninvited to your job, and tore up all your papers, destroyed your computer, and constantly was ramming my chair into your chair.


Since they are pirates now -- do we get to watch some more awesome stuff where they take the hippy cock gobblers out with a sniper shot from a rolling and bobbing boat?
 
2013-02-27 12:41:10 AM

jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.


The US is involved for a number of reasons:

a) Many (if not all) the Sea Shepherd crew are US nationals.  (This is about as close as one gets to a "flag nation" with the Sea Shepherd--it explicitly does NOT fly under a national flag in an attempt to avoid international jurisdiction with their actions against whaling ships.)
b) More likely, the US is involved due to international maritime treaties that allow ANY country--actually mandate it in some cases--to take action in the event of actions that would be defined as piracy under maritime law.  (Yes, we're a signatory to these, hence why the Navy will sometimes escort ships through the Gulf of Aden.  And, yes, technically, harassing a ship in international waters to make it stop travel or its business whilst explictly flying the Jolly Roger in an attempt to not fly under a flag nation's protecting power and NOT acting under a formal marque of reprisal from a nation does meet the modern definition of piracy.)

/the right way would be for the crew of the Sea Shepherd to get a letter of marque and reprisal from the Australian government--seeing as the latter has technically forbidden whaling in these waters
//yes, letters of marque and reprisal do still exist in international maritime law.  They've not really been used since the 1800s and at the latest possibly WW I (since then, there has been a real shift towards drafting commercial ships into the Merchant Marine during times of warfare--largely because there aren't a whole lot of private vessels that can be converted into battleships or that ARE battleships, and in the case of the US partly because of Constitutional restrictions on issuance of letters of marque) but the provisions still very much exist; Goodyear airships acted in a de facto "quasi privateer" status in WW II (though arguably no legal framework existed for merchant marine airships) and the concept HAS occasionally been proposed as a method to deal with Somalian piracy
 
2013-02-27 12:42:05 AM
Ha!  I have to wonder if the money spent on outfitting ships to harass the whalers might be better spent trying to educate and shame the Japanese with advertising campaigns.  Sending ships to the Antarctic has got to cost a whole lot of money and what they let happen to the Ady Gil is reprehensible.
 
2013-02-27 12:42:22 AM

jtown: johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)

Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.


ummm..sure, but it probably does make them liable to the 9th districts jurisdiction
 
2013-02-27 12:42:53 AM
And the japs are just doing scientific research.
 
2013-02-27 12:43:51 AM

al's hat: shame the Japanese


"shame"? The Japanese?

Is this the very first day in your entire young life you've logged into the Internets?
 
2013-02-27 12:44:42 AM
Somebody just buy a couple of Russian torpedoes for these guys and sink the fricken Japanese whalers already.

Don't publicize it, don't take credit, sail an unmarked ship and just finish this stuff.


"Killing whales for research on their impact on our fisheries" is a bullshiat reason even if true, and they know it. How many other biological or environmental studies call for the wholesale murder of at-risk species in order to conduct the research? If you have to kill thousands every year, maybe the research isn't that necessary.

Whaling and canning of the meat and forcing it on the younger generations who want nothing to do with it is bullshiat (a large population of Japanese students at my alma mater, and they all tell tales of being forced to eat whale at school). Not to mention random checks of said whale meat has routinely turned up endangered species DNA, and we can call the scientific research part what it is: a red herring.
 
2013-02-27 12:45:18 AM

Great Porn Dragon: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

The US is involved for a number of reasons:

a) Many (if not all) the Sea Shepherd crew are US nationals.  (This is about as close as one gets to a "flag nation" with the Sea Shepherd--it explicitly does NOT fly under a national flag in an attempt to avoid international jurisdiction with their actions against whaling ships.)
b) More likely, the US is involved due to international maritime treaties that allow ANY country--actually mandate it in some cases--to take action in the event of actions that would be defined as piracy under maritime law.  (Yes, we're a signatory to these, hence why the Navy will sometimes escort ships through the Gulf of Aden.  And, yes, technically, harassing a ship in international waters to make it stop travel or its business whilst explictly flying the Jolly Roger in an attempt to not fly under a flag nation's protecting power and NOT acting under a formal marque of reprisal from a nation does meet the modern definition of piracy.)

/the right way would be for the crew of the Sea Shepherd to get a letter of marque and reprisal from the Australian government--seeing as the latter has technically forbidden whaling in these waters
//yes, letters of marque and reprisal do still exist in international maritime law.  They've not really been used since the 1800s and at the latest possibly WW I (since then, there has been a real shift towards drafting commercial ships into the Merchant Marine during times of warfare-- ...


The Sea Shepard ships are flagged in New Zealand and Australia. Australia has claimed sovereignty over the whole southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica, and ANZUS maritime treaties back that claim. The Japanese are poaching in Australian national waters.
 
2013-02-27 12:46:35 AM
When you ram ships; hurl glass containers of acid; drag metal-reinforced ropes in the water to damage propellers and rudders; launch smoke bombs and flares with hooks; and point high-powered lasers at other ships, you are, without a doubt, a pirate, no matter how high-minded you believe your purpose to be.

Well... yeah, pretty much.  I mean, the actual technical term is "terrorist" or "saboteur", but either of those things done in international waters falls under 'piracy', that's not a stretch at all.

Most of the "privateer" ships of the 1600s claimed to be morally superior, too (and many of the outright pirates, but that's more detailed history).  Didn't make 'em magically not pirates.

//If they were just blocking the ships or chasing the whales off with sonics, might be arguable.  When you're damaging the propulsion of a ship in arctic waters, you go all the way past douchery and come out on the side of outright attempted murder.
 
2013-02-27 12:47:12 AM
I went on a whaling mission with my Icelandic grandfather in 1984 at the age of 6. We harpooned a couple of small whales (I have pictures of them gutted on the pier but I don't know what species)and it fed a bunch of people in the small town of Isafjordur where he lived. Food was a precious commodity back then and they ate what ever they could get. My grandfather's brother died right in front of him when they were young while repelling down a cliff to get puffin eggs to feed the family.

That being said, these Japanese whalers are likely hunting the whales to make boner pills or something, the more exotic and endangered the harder the boner.
 
2013-02-27 12:48:47 AM
Whole lotta chest thumping from the ITGs in this thread.
 
2013-02-27 12:49:46 AM

accelerus: They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.


It's illegal to whale for food unless you are an aborigine using what amounts to caveman tools.  Japan illegally issues scientific whale hunting permits to commercial fishermen who sell their catch on the market.

On 23 July 1982, members of the IWC voted by the necessary three-quarters majority to implement a pause on commercial whaling. The relevant text reads:

"Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits."
 
2013-02-27 12:50:46 AM

BuckTurgidson: al's hat: shame the Japanese

"shame"? The Japanese?

Is this the very first day in your entire young life you've logged into the Internets?


Why yes!  Today is the first day...of course I've done a lot reading in my 46 years so I'm one of those people who doesn't actually believe that everything I might see on the interwebs is true.  I've been reading dead trees for like, forever.  jk, lol, rotflmao.  I did find this on the interweb thingie though...

http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa070797.htm

"Haji (shame) is said to form the core of Japanese culture. Japanese culture is described as "shame culture " in contrast to Western "guilt culture". In the west one can say that one's behavior is based, or dictated, by a sense of guilt resulting from one's actions. The feeling of guilt in the west is an internal feeling; the feeling of shame in Japan is an external feeling. This is not to suggest that the west is shameless, but rather that historically, Japan, has placed a great deal upon the feeling of shame. One can look to the samurai period for an example of shame. For a samurai, being put to shame in front of the public was as good as death."
 
2013-02-27 12:51:56 AM
The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.
 
2013-02-27 12:53:15 AM
Is Sea Shepherd filled with douchebags? Yes.

Do they call attention to marine sustainability issues? Yes

Is whaling for research something that should end? Yes

2 outa 3 gets their shenanigans a shrug and a "Meh...." from me.

/if they really wanted to end things a few well placed magnesium flares would end things permanently, but how would they shill for donations then?
 
2013-02-27 12:54:29 AM

jtown: johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)

Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.


Actually, with this court ruling it could go far worse for them (and even though I consider the Sea Shepherd crew to be attention whores who are fighting "research whaling" for human consumption the Wrong Way, I do worry for them with the ruling).

You see, in general, piracy on the high seas is considered a military matter--to sum up maritime law on piracy in a Cliff's Notes version, pretty much once a group are considered pirates every navy in the world has carte blanche to blow the hell out of them--and in fact may be mandated to do so.  (Under US law in particular, life imprisonment is mandated for the crime of piracy...assuming the pirates make it to the US alive.  In the case of Japan, it could well be worse; Japan DOES have the death penalty on its books, though it's unknown to me whether piracy is considered a capital offense.)

/yes, folks, this is srs bzns
//still say the Right Way would have involved playing up how younger Japanese think whale is pretty farking disgusting; now the Japanese pretty much embrace whaling the way a dominionist embraces anti-LGBT hate because they're told YOU ARE WRONG AND HORRIBLE FOR THIS and they go HOW DARE YOU THIS IS MY CULTURE DAMNIT
///if they had to go all Captain Ahab (pun intended) on Japanese whalers, the Right Way is to get a formal letter of marque and reprisal from a country who is a signatory to the whaling ban, best bet would be Australia
 
2013-02-27 12:55:42 AM
I just wanted to say that Jane Taylor and I both served on the Denver together. Nice enough gal, I suppose.
 
2013-02-27 12:59:27 AM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


Read history, man.

tuesdaysinsunnypore.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-27 01:01:02 AM
The research excuse for the whaling is kind of hilarious. As a biologist, let me say you would never in a million years get a study like that past an ethics board. Large animal research is never conducted by killing the animals in significant numbers. Not even when the animals are abundant.

They're commercially hunting them for food in violation of international law, and nobody even wants the meat. It's ridiculous.
 
2013-02-27 01:01:45 AM
So they're downloading a few movies in their off time...

Big deal!
 
2013-02-27 01:04:21 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.


Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.
 
2013-02-27 01:04:28 AM
HotWingAgenda

re:accelerus

Don't you understand he would totally have a .50 cal(caliber) on his deck?
 
2013-02-27 01:05:14 AM

HotWingAgenda: accelerus: They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.

It's illegal to whale for food unless you are an aborigine using what amounts to caveman tools.  Japan illegally issues scientific whale hunting permits to commercial fishermen who sell their catch on the market.

On 23 July 1982, members of the IWC voted by the necessary three-quarters majority to implement a pause on commercial whaling. The relevant text reads:

"Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits."


Well, nothing trumps an argument like a wiki link.  Thread over.  An IWC ban is not the same as international maritime law. Guess which one trumps the other.
 
2013-02-27 01:05:35 AM

Deathfrogg: The Sea Shepard ships are flagged in New Zealand and Australia. Australia has claimed sovereignty over the whole southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica, and ANZUS maritime treaties back that claim. The Japanese are poaching in Australian national waters.


Then all the better reason for the Sea Shepherd to have worked with the Australian and/or New Zealand governments to get a formal letter of marque and reprisal (which would have legally covered their ass from claims of piracy, of note; with that letter, they're basically working as a private agent authorised expressly by the government to prevent whaling ships from conducting illegal activity, and Japan would have to biatch to the Australian or New Zealand government instead of trying to prosecute the Sea Shepherd crew for what is seen as the One Big Unforgivable in maritime law).

I'm not a fan of the tactics they use, but I can at least understand WHY they're going for direct action--but again, maritime law is a rather different beast than On-Shore National Law and the potential penalties for monkeywrenching are sufficiently severe that you really want to cover your ass doing this--and if you can cover your ass by having an official governmental document basically making you James Bond of the High Seas, even better.

(And by "considerably more serious"...well, for similar bits of monkeywrenching on land you'd just at best get charged with vandalism or felony destruction of property, you might get a restraining order against you, but even if your group is part of an organised domestic terrorist organisation you still aren't going to have as severe penalties as Monkeywrenching At Sea.  The latter tends to be defined as the Crime of Sabotage or the Crime of Piracy, both of which are literally capital offenses in many countries--piracy in particular is taken so seriously that in some countries the only death penalty offenses that remain on the books are the crimes of high treason and piracy.  In general, the US military doesn't have carte blanche to blow your ass up for wrecking a company that conducts cruel and unnecessary animal testing; they do if you're considered to be interfering with a ship at sea to the point it causes major property damage.  Hence why you want to be very, very careful re Direct Action At Sea.)
 
2013-02-27 01:07:05 AM

Great Porn Dragon: jtown: johnny_vegas: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

i think the company is incorporated in the US (Seattle?)

Ah.  Then this would be Step 1 in the process of seizing their funds because they're funding terrorist operations.

Actually, with this court ruling it could go far worse for them (and even though I consider the Sea Shepherd crew to be attention whores who are fighting "research whaling" for human consumption the Wrong Way, I do worry for them with the ruling).

You see, in general, piracy on the high seas is considered a military matter--to sum up maritime law on piracy in a Cliff's Notes version, pretty much once a group are considered pirates every navy in the world has carte blanche to blow the hell out of them--and in fact may be mandated to do so.  (Under US law in particular, life imprisonment is mandated for the crime of piracy...assuming the pirates make it to the US alive.  In the case of Japan, it could well be worse; Japan DOES have the death penalty on its books, though it's unknown to me whether piracy is considered a capital offense.)

/yes, folks, this is srs bzns
//still say the Right Way would have involved playing up how younger Japanese think whale is pretty farking disgusting; now the Japanese pretty much embrace whaling the way a dominionist embraces anti-LGBT hate because they're told YOU ARE WRONG AND HORRIBLE FOR THIS and they go HOW DARE YOU THIS IS MY CULTURE DAMNIT
///if they had to go all Captain Ahab (pun intended) on Japanese wha ...




Over 5,000 tons of the meat go unsold in public markets, and it would be worse if it weren't for whale meat being used in school meals, which still goes largely unused but is considered 'consumed' or 'sold' in most metrics, so waste isn't measured on that end.
The latest data shows that current consumption is around 1% of record recorded highs.

Sadly, the Japanese govt answer to this is to force the allowance of even more whaling, and increasing kill quotas by several hundred whales.... But wait, I thought the killing was for research purposes and the flesh and carcass were being reclaimed as food because it had to be. D'oh!

/I also don't think what the sea shepherds are doing is the best route, but bad ideas spring from the inaction or indifference of better minds.
 
2013-02-27 01:07:10 AM
If the whales are as smart as people make them out to be they should revolt against the Japanese. They could be like "BUBBLEBUBLBLblGGRR" which is "I'm tired of these biatches." and just start attacking.
 
2013-02-27 01:12:56 AM
The US federal court can go fark itself. It has no jurisdiction in international waters.

 If the the Japs want to ' research ' whales, they can access reams of information without going near the ocean, or they can open up any number of whales that beach themselves every year.

The Japanese gov't is diverting funds from the tsunami rebuild to fund these floating slaughter houses.

Whale watching is a multi million dollar business around the world.

The Sea Sheperd crews have been very successful in limiting the catch.
 
2013-02-27 01:14:59 AM

sat1va: I went on a whaling mission with my Icelandic grandfather in 1984 at the age of 6. We harpooned a couple of small whales (I have pictures of them gutted on the pier but I don't know what species)and it fed a bunch of people in the small town of Isafjordur where he lived. Food was a precious commodity back then and they ate what ever they could get. My grandfather's brother died right in front of him when they were young while repelling down a cliff to get puffin eggs to feed the family.

That being said, these Japanese whalers are likely hunting the whales to make boner pills or something, the more exotic and endangered the harder the boner.


Actually, a lot of the whaling pretty much boils down to a bad case of Southern Stubborn among the Japanese (aka "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I DID A BAD THING THIS IS OUR CULTURE BY GUM AND SO WE'LL DO IT MOAR TO PISS YOU OFF")...pretty much all of the whale meat goes into the school system as really, really cheap food...and pretty much most Japanese under the age of about 40-50 or so tend to think of whale the same way we Americans think of the blood-bones-and-sawdust "burger meat" in our school lunches...that is, as Meals That Would Be Refused By Starving Sudanese As Unfit For Dog Food Much Less Human Consumption.

Pretty much had it not been for some of the more extreme bits of Attention Whoring, whaling would have quite possibly died out (nobody buys whale anymore in Japan, it's pretty much commodity mystery-meat in school)...but thanks to the "HOW DARE YOU MURDER FLIPPER!" outrage from everyone save Norway, Iceland and a few First Nations groups in the Northwest parts of North America, the Japanese have pretty much done the same thing that your average Southerner does upon mention that the Confederate battle flag MIGHT have some unsavoury notions and pretty much promoted whaling as some sort of National And Cultural Identity Thing Under Attack By The Big, Bad World Outside Who Just Doesn't Understand, Kami-Damnit.

(Yes, you're reading this right--the Japanese pretty much do whaling as a sort of National Emo Demonstration To Show Everyone Else That They're Wrong For Criticising Them.  Just like those folks who scream "HERITAGE NOT HATE!" re the Confederate battle flag.)
 
2013-02-27 01:16:50 AM
I pretty much hate everyone involved here.
 
2013-02-27 01:17:48 AM

Thunderbox: The US federal court can go fark itself. It has no jurisdiction in international waters.

The jurisdiction is based on where the representative company is incorporated, so in this case the 9th has jurisdiction.

otherwise, yeah what you said
 
2013-02-27 01:19:19 AM
These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.
 
2013-02-27 01:20:12 AM

andychrist420: An IWC ban is not the same as international maritime law. Guess which one trumps the other.


Man, when you don't do your research, you really don't bother doing your research.  Maritime law regarding commercial fishing and such is enacted by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.  The implementation of the Convention as it regards whaling is delegated to the IWC, of which Japan is emphatically a member.  Guess which island nation to the East of China ratified the Convention?

/admittedly, the US has not ratified the Convention, although we are in the IWC
 
2013-02-27 01:20:32 AM
I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.
 
2013-02-27 01:25:03 AM

ThunderPelvis: These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.


Don't bother. Horse meat sashimi. That's the stuff.
 
2013-02-27 01:27:08 AM

msupf: Somebody just buy a couple of Russian torpedoes for these guys and sink the fricken Japanese whalers already.


I would think that they could buy or lease a Russian sub for much cheaper than all the money they have spent over the last couple years. Hell, I would donate for that mission as well. A little home made thermite would probably resolve the situation pretty quickly too.
 
2013-02-27 01:27:25 AM

msupf: Over 5,000 tons of the meat go unsold in public markets, and it would be worse if it weren't for whale meat being used in school meals, which still goes largely unused but is considered 'consumed' or 'sold' in most metrics, so waste isn't measured on that end.
The latest data shows that current consumption is around 1% of record recorded highs.

Sadly, the Japanese govt answer to this is to force the allowance of even more whaling, and increasing kill quotas by several hundred whales.... But wait, I thought the killing was for research purposes and the flesh and carcass were being reclaimed as food because it had to be. D'oh!


And as I (and others) have noted...pretty much the whole reason it's continuing is:

a) Basically the Japanese do have a social concept rather akin to the concept of Southern Honor, and really don't take it well when told they are doing a Bad Thing (hence why the atrocities of WW II are STILL not generally taught in Japanese schools, among other things)--there really, really is a HUGE cultural stigma re shame and being shamed, to the point that death is seen as better (not making this up).

b) Pretty much because the rest of the world IS rubbing their nose in it and pointing out "YOU DO THIS BAD THING", Japan pretty much is doing MOAR whaling to show them how wrong they are rather than admit that the whole whaling thing is a waste at this point--because they CANNOT lose national face.

c) Hence generations of Japanese kids learning to loathe whale meat about the same way we learned to hate Barfaroni and "school hamburgers" in public schools.

(And yes, probably the easiest way to understand the Japanese mindset on this without living in Japan is to see some of the reactions in the Southeast US in particular re the Confederacy and particularly the Confederate battle flag--even people who agree that the actions of the Confederacy re slavery were heinous will often go ballistic when it's noted that the rest of the world tends to think of the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of gross ignorance at best if not a frank hate symbol not unlike the Nazi misuse of the swastika.  They pretty much see it as an attack on their very identity. :P)

Hence why I say that the best way to have stopped whaling in Japan was to point out that nobody eats the shiat, everyone thinks it's horrible food not even fit for giving to the family cat, and that they're spending millions if not billions of yen to hunt whales that nobody wants to eat and nobody outside of Inuvik even considers food...and that even the Inuit only want the blubber and want THAT to be well and properly "fermented" first, preferably for the better part of a year.  Point out that millions if not billions of yen are being spent getting folks filthy in whaling for stuff nobody in their right mind eats in Japan. :3
 
2013-02-27 01:28:27 AM

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.

Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.


 I think the video clearly shows the smaller ships impeding the larger...they are deliberately getting in the way.  It appears their maneuvering in this video and others is a violation of maritime rules.

Also i do not think the australians have a valid claim to the entire southern ocean.  They have a validated excessive continental shelf true....and ANZUS recognition is nice but UNCLOS is what matters.
 
2013-02-27 01:29:54 AM
FTFA:

"What Sea Shepherd Australia is doing with Australian flagged vessels and Dutch flagged vessels down in the Australian Antarctic territory is outside of any sort of control of the courts in the United States"

And well, that pretty much sums that up. Our courts have zero jurisdiction over this.
 
2013-02-27 01:32:21 AM

ThunderPelvis: These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.


Will continue?  That's pretty much the only reason it continues now--it's literally the Japanese nationalistards' version of "Heritage Not Hate" at this point, and pretty much whaling only continues as an upraised middle finger to the rest of the world community who tells the Japanese government that they're doing Bad Things By Whaling (which pretty much in and of itself triggers the "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO SHAME ME DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU AREN'T THE MASTER OF ME" response in the Japanese national psyche).

I can definitely see why the Sea Shepherd does what it does, and I am NOT one of those who thinks whale should be on the menu (or whaled, period; we have jojoba oil and other substitutes for the OTHER stuff we used to whale for) but I can say that (based on what I have seen re the Japanese psyche and the American equivalent)...I worry that their actions may be counterproductive.
 
2013-02-27 01:34:07 AM
Why are the Japanese the only ones compared to stone headed Southerners? Telling the SS that their tactics are wrongheaded and detrimental to the cause seems to meet with the same stubborn refusal to accept criticism.
 
2013-02-27 01:35:32 AM

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.

Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There
are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.





Have you ever navigated a large river with barge traffic? I'm guessing no. Let clue you into something. Big vessels don't stop if something suddenly pull into thier path. The whalers would always have right of way over a speedy vessel crossing its path. It's no different then expecting a train to stop
 
2013-02-27 01:35:56 AM

Deathfrogg: Ima4nic8or: Pirates, terrorists...either name fits these whackjobs.  I hope that one day the captain of a bigger ship gets pissed off and rams and sinks their little sea turd.

The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker  does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.


apropos?
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-27 01:38:04 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: ThunderPelvis: These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.

Don't bother. Horse meat sashimi. That's the stuff.


Amateur. Baby seal is where it's at.
 
2013-02-27 01:39:55 AM
wife watches this.  i will watch every once in awhile but i just don't get into it like she does.  sure I wish the whaling would stop, but come on they fly a pirate flag get me interested start ACTING like pirates for god sakes.  maybe a little something 'ala Jack Sparrow, pull alongside storm the ship and tell the whalers to join their crew or get set adrift on a passing iceberg with some Emperor Penguins.  see someone get run through on the end of a cutlass.  Yeah i know it ain't going to happen but like i said they fly the pirate flag, at least get that captain to stop crying every time he notices the camera is on him.
 
2013-02-27 01:42:33 AM

Vash's Apprentice: AverageAmericanGuy: ThunderPelvis: These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.

Don't bother. Horse meat sashimi. That's the stuff.

Amateur. Baby seal is where it's at.


Unfortunately I don't know where to get baby seal sashimi.
 
2013-02-27 01:43:15 AM
An international treaty allows governments to kill whales for "research". Wink-wink -nudge-nudge
Yeah research into "How much do I tip for serving me banned food?"

Just stop you assholes, just. stop.
 
2013-02-27 01:47:44 AM

insertsnarkyusername: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?


They are doing it in Australian waters, which Australia has no control over. Which may sound odd, but it is because of a loophole in the Antarctic treaty. As part of the treaty, all of the nations with territorial claims agreed to forgo their claims of exclusivity to their waters in exchange for an agreement which prevented mining taking place in the Antarctic. So, if Australia tells Japan to bugger off and go home, the end result is that the treaty falls over and suddenly the US could start covering their Antarctic claims with oil wells (or something like that).
Australia is currently taking this issue to some international court of justice (or something like that) but that doesn't save any whales this year, while the self-righteous wankers on the boats are actually making a difference (which kind of excuses the wankeryness). The question of what (if any) force Australia can use and who (if anyone) can enforce parts of the treaty which the Japanese keep ignoring (like refuelling at sea within the protected zones) is a fun one. But I think that it would be much better in he long term if a government (Australia) sent navel or customs vessels to monitor this 'scientific' research, rather than rely on activists (and if we start defining activists as pirates or terrorists I am liable to start signing up for conspiracy theory websites about the new world order).
 
2013-02-27 01:50:18 AM
About damned time.

Now, can we toss Bob Barker's ass in jail for funding these pirates? The man knowingly contributed millions to these assholes, specifically for their ecoterrorist activities, and they named a friggin' ship after him.
 
2013-02-27 02:01:30 AM

Great Porn Dragon: sat1va: I went on a whaling mission with my Icelandic grandfather in 1984 at the age of 6. We harpooned a couple of small whales (I have pictures of them gutted on the pier but I don't know what species)and it fed a bunch of people in the small town of Isafjordur where he lived. Food was a precious commodity back then and they ate what ever they could get. My grandfather's brother died right in front of him when they were young while repelling down a cliff to get puffin eggs to feed the family.

That being said, these Japanese whalers are likely hunting the whales to make boner pills or something, the more exotic and endangered the harder the boner.

Actually, a lot of the whaling pretty much boils down to a bad case of Southern Stubborn among the Japanese (aka "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I DID A BAD THING THIS IS OUR CULTURE BY GUM AND SO WE'LL DO IT MOAR TO PISS YOU OFF")...pretty much all of the whale meat goes into the school system as really, really cheap food...and pretty much most Japanese under the age of about 40-50 or so tend to think of whale the same way we Americans think of the blood-bones-and-sawdust "burger meat" in our school lunches...that is, as Meals That Would Be Refused By Starving Sudanese As Unfit For Dog Food Much Less Human Consumption.

Pretty much had it not been for some of the more extreme bits of Attention Whoring, whaling would have quite possibly died out (nobody buys whale anymore in Japan, it's pretty much commodity mystery-meat in school)...but thanks to the "HOW DARE YOU MURDER FLIPPER!" outrage from everyone save Norway, Iceland and a few First Nations groups in the Northwest parts of North America, the Japanese have pretty much done the same thing that your average Southerner does upon mention that the Confederate battle flag MIGHT have some unsavoury notions and pretty much promoted whaling as some sort of National And Cultural Identity Thing Under Attack By The Big, Bad World Outside Who Just Doesn't Understand, Kami-Damnit.

(Yes, ...


That's pretty spot on in my book.

My understanding is that the species they hunt have rather quick reproductive cycles AND and are not even close to endangered, which leaves sentience, intelligence (and deep down, where we don't like to admit, cuteness) as the factors separating whales-as-food from other animals-as-food.

Given the recent UK burger meat fiasco, where do we stand on horses? They seem pretty sentient to me, considering you can take a wild horse and figuratively "break" its will.  On the other hand, horses are rather delicious.  Not everyone agrees if we can eat them or not.  Pigs are incredibly intelligent (very adept at mazes, apparently) and if you don't love bacon you are a monster (those who love their faith more than pork, notwithstanding).  Octopodes are ridiculously creative and are often described as "moody" by those who care for them, but they rank quite low on the animals-as-food pecking order.  Just because they're ugly and a tad slimy? Or because they sit next to slugs and snails on the Tree of Life?  What our stance on dogs? Well, you get the picture.

What's food and what ain't is not a black and white question, and they Japanese are happy to exploit a loophole to insist that whales are food.  I don't know if they're right, but I like bacon and octopus and even horse (OK, maybe not all together in a bucket), but if someone told me it was morally wrong to eat them, then it has to be wrong to eat ALL animals.  Otherwise, shut the F up and enjoy your hypocrisy.

/whale jerky was NAAAASTY
//whale croquettes weren't that bad
///send your angry letters to kyuzokai@ultr..... ::carrier lost::
 
2013-02-27 02:04:01 AM
How do you trust a man who claims he was shot, when the cameras showed another story, and the evidence didn't support his claim?

How do you trust a crew who boastfully declare that their lives aren't worth more than a whale, and that they would die for their belief - only to immediately backpedal when a potentially life threatening situation presents itself?

How do you trust someone who has openly stated that they will do whatever they want regardless of what people say, because they believe it to be true?
 
2013-02-27 02:06:20 AM

FormlessOne: About damned time.

Now, can we toss Bob Barker's ass in jail for funding these pirates? The man knowingly contributed millions to these assholes, specifically for their ecoterrorist activities, and they named a friggin' ship after him.




I think a drone strike is in order for Bob. If nothing else he was a scumbag for his casting couch
 
2013-02-27 02:06:30 AM
I watched about half of one of their shows and couldn't watch anymore. The whole organization reminded me of a slip and fall bully. They would go out and pick fights and then put themselves in positions to get hurt, then cry foul.

We had someone who would watch this show during their breaks at a former job of mine and he would tear up during the whole show. One day I laughed at him and he threw something at me out of anger, then I laughed harder. Great memories.....
 
2013-02-27 02:10:36 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: ThunderPelvis: These dipsh*ts are a wet dream come true for the equally dickheaded Japanese nationalist groups. Whaling will continue if *only* to spite Sea Shepherd.

/which reminds me, I need to try some whale sashimi soon.

Don't bother. Horse meat sashimi. That's the stuff.


I had basashi and horsemeat nabe a couple of weeks ago, and both were stellar.  I also had  ikezukuri recently, though, and I have to admit I was a little uncomfortable about it.  I've worked on a chicken farm, however, and the suffering of the average chicken wing from KFC makes ikezukuri look practically vegetarian.  That's also true for whales.

/if you can't look your food in the eye while it's dying, you probably shouldn't eat it.
 
2013-02-27 02:13:09 AM
I'm really surprised these guys don't just buy some black market torpedoes instead of another retired ship and just sink the whole damned whaling fleet. At least that would put an end to the steady stream of idiotic news stories!
 
2013-02-27 02:15:44 AM
I watched that gay ass show about three times.  Every episode was the same.....they didn't really accomplish much.  The main gray haired dude made me so angry
 
2013-02-27 02:33:39 AM
Seems like an easy solution. Push for the Aussies and the New Zealanders to confiscate the illegal whaling vessels when they are in their waters, as there aren't supposed to be any whaler ships left anywhere outside of the few nation's exempted from whaling in their territorial waters.

If that actually happened then the Sea Shepards would cease to need to exist, and perhaps the crews could actually use their skills to improve knowledge of the sea like some of them actually have been trained to do. In fact, I'm sure that most of them never really wanted to interfere with shipping in any way, except that it was the only way that they saw that the problem could be spot lighted and possibly corrected.

However, the money/treaty considerations won out again, and the people trying to stop something that is illegal, harmful and completely unneccesary, are now branded the outlaws/pirates/brigands etc. Woohoo, justice has been well served, apparently with a side of well done whale blubber again!

I swear if we could get out of the mentality of the 1800's, maybe the rest of the life on this world will have a chance with us on it, and we'll have a better chance to stay viable as well.
 
2013-02-27 02:36:54 AM

Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


Those are .... not your waters yank
Those are ours

fark you and the walrus you rode in on
 
2013-02-27 02:40:49 AM

Seth'n'Spectrum: [bradfordschmidt.com image 324x205]
Shepherd.

[i9.photobucket.com image 324x186]
Wrecks.


Wasn't the Addy Gill towing huge ass cables intended to foul the whale ship propeller at the time of impact?
 
2013-02-27 02:47:48 AM

phalamir: start sinking the Japanese boats


we confiscate them and ransom the crew
 
2013-02-27 02:49:38 AM
Ah, the swashbuckling Alex Kozinski.

/"The parties are advised to chill."  Mattel, Inc. v. MCA Records, Inc. 298 F. 3d 894 (9th Cir.2002), 908.
//He got an ethics reprimand for posting to his website pictures of naked women painted and costumed to look like cows.
 
2013-02-27 02:51:25 AM
Now if we could officially define Japanese whalers as Ninja's....
 
2013-02-27 02:53:57 AM
So does this mean we get to see an official Ninjas vs Pirates deathmatch on the high seas?
 
2013-02-27 02:55:35 AM

BuckTurgidson: Sea Shepherd activists have collided with Japanese ships in campaign to halt whale hunts.

Haven't Japanese ships deliberately collided with Sea Shepherd ships, ramming and destroying and sinking them?

Has Sea Shepherd ever floated a craft that could ram and sink a whaling ship?

Has a treaty-busting Jap whaling ship ever faced credible threat of being rammed and sunk by a Sea Shepherd zodiac?


When you place a smaller ship in the path of a larger ship, and said larger ship runs you over, it is your own Damn fault.

I can't remember the exact name for it, but in maritime law it is the job of the smaller ship to get out of the way, not the larger one.

Law of gross tonnage?

The whaler ships are behemoths, the activist ships are small and fast.if they get smashed and all on board drown, it is their own Damn fault
 
2013-02-27 03:03:51 AM

Slartibartfaster: phalamir: start sinking the Japanese boats

we confiscate them and ransom the crew


That would certainly justify lethal force and would be the dumbest thing Sea Shepherd could possibly do...even dumber than what they are doing now, which is *assuredly* increasing domestic pressure in Japan to continue whaling.
 
2013-02-27 03:09:24 AM
No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...
 
2013-02-27 03:16:46 AM
Does this mean they can use real firearms against the Japanese whaling fleet?
 
2013-02-27 03:21:20 AM

doglover: Does this mean they can use real firearms against the Japanese whaling fleet?


Yes, but they are limited to muskets, cannons, and flintlock pistols.

They are also allowed the use of cutlasses and daggers.
 
2013-02-27 03:39:03 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: Does this mean they can use real firearms against the Japanese whaling fleet?

Yes, but they are limited to muskets, cannons, and flintlock pistols.

They are also allowed the use of cutlasses and daggers.


I'd imagine that concentrated stupidity would also count as a weapon.
 
2013-02-27 03:40:41 AM

ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...


there are plenty of pigs left.
 
2013-02-27 03:42:20 AM

ThunderPelvis: That would certainly justify lethal force


How so ?

Japanese boats enter New Zealand and Australian waters often
Confiscation is common, we are allowed to use armed force against that (under international law)

Fishing, Trading, and Merchant boats are not allowed to arm
Defence vessels are.

// Kiwi born, maori
 
2013-02-27 03:42:33 AM

ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...


Because most of them are endangered species. Japan are dicks and have no respect for wildlife conservation.
 
2013-02-27 03:42:57 AM

doglover: Does this mean they can use real firearms against the Japanese whaling fleet?


That'd be a damn good way for gun enthusiasts to get the gun control people on their side - volunteer to hop on the Sea Shepherds with their gun collections and go after the whaling ships.
 
2013-02-27 03:44:44 AM

ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...


Use that explaination to counter consumption of dogs or horses
Whales are endangered.

gravebayne2: there are plenty of pigs left


^^ THAT
 
2013-02-27 03:48:17 AM

susansto-helit: That'd be a damn good way for gun enthusiasts to get the gun control people on their side - volunteer to hop on the Sea Shepherds with their gun collections and go after the whaling ships


Your newsletter
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2013-02-27 03:49:04 AM
www.one-quest.com
 
2013-02-27 03:49:14 AM

SwingDancer: BuckTurgidson: Sea Shepherd activists have collided with Japanese ships in campaign to halt whale hunts.

Haven't Japanese ships deliberately collided with Sea Shepherd ships, ramming and destroying and sinking them?

Has Sea Shepherd ever floated a craft that could ram and sink a whaling ship?

Has a treaty-busting Jap whaling ship ever faced credible threat of being rammed and sunk by a Sea Shepherd zodiac?

When you place a smaller ship in the path of a larger ship, and said larger ship runs you over, it is your own Damn fault.

I can't remember the exact name for it, but in maritime law it is the job of the smaller ship to get out of the way, not the larger one.

Law of gross tonnage?

The whaler ships are behemoths, the activist ships are small and fast.if they get smashed and all on board drown, it is their own Damn fault


IANAL but my understanding of it is basically the vessel with the ability to safely avoid collision  mustdo so.  There really is no hard rule of who has the "right of way" like on roads, and there's clear rules on how vessels approach each other and what signals from lighting to horn blasts mean.

From what I have seen in the show they have shown a clear disregard for all of these rules/laws and that any judge would side with them is appalling.

This is coming from someone who thinks a lot of the whaling practices are abhorrent.
 
2013-02-27 03:54:45 AM

gravebayne2: ThunderPelvis: No one has ever really sufficiently explained to me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens. I know carnivores who get all teary-eyed about whales in mid-bacon sandwich. I guess pigs just aren't cute enough, or something. Maybe if they could whine underwater a little better...

there are plenty of pigs left.


There are plenty of Minke whales left, too. I still don't see douchey attention whores setting up around slaughterhouses.
 
2013-02-27 03:58:33 AM

ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.


Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?
 
2013-02-27 03:59:24 AM
"Jap" is a racial slur.

They are Japanese ships. The country is Japan. The people are Japanese.
 
2013-02-27 04:00:22 AM

ModernLuddite: "Jap" is a racial slur.

They are Japanese ships. The country is Japan. The people are Japanese.


It's okay because whales are endangered.
 
2013-02-27 04:02:21 AM

Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?


Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?
 
2013-02-27 04:06:03 AM

Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?


There are other fish that are actually overfished and endangered, but Sea Shepherd doesn't give a fark about those fish. They'd rather expend their resources on unendangered minke because it makes for better TV and because people like you have fee-fees for whales and will give them money so they can be travelling, shiftless bums in *style*
 
2013-02-27 04:11:46 AM

bakarocket: Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?


Where are there shortages of deer where hunters use commercial vessels to predate them ?
 
2013-02-27 04:12:58 AM

ThunderPelvis: There are other fish that are actually overfished and endangered, but Sea Shepherd doesn't give a fark about those fish.


Agreed

But that does not justify whaling - it means others (who are not so douchey as sea shepherd) should get out and stop the wankers who are over fishing them.
 
2013-02-27 04:16:00 AM
Show me a single credible source that says that minke whales are endangered. The Japanese catch is primarily minke and their populations are healthy.
 
2013-02-27 04:25:36 AM

bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?


Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?
 
2013-02-27 04:38:03 AM

Slartibartfaster: bakarocket: Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Where are there shortages of deer where hunters use commercial vessels to predate them ?


There are none. Just like there are no shortage of Minke Whales.
 
2013-02-27 04:41:08 AM

bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: bakarocket: Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Where are there shortages of deer where hunters use commercial vessels to predate them ?

There are none. Just like there are no shortage of Minke Whales.


Too bad we can't say the same for the Sei or Bryde's whales which make up nearly 10% of Japanese catches, or the Fin whales that Norway likes to catch and sell to Japan.
 
2013-02-27 04:41:53 AM

Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?


Whose nation?

Now, are you aware of something called the International Whaling Commission, which is an organization with the goal of limiting the number of whales hunted in order to support a sustainable industry? And that through the actions of the IWC, whale populations are recovering? Not all of them, of course, which is why signatories to the treaty are limiting whaling of certain species.

Or did you think the IWC was trying to save whales because they are cute?
 
2013-02-27 04:43:03 AM

phalamir: issuing you a letter of marque


The US would also have to properly declare war for the letter of marque and reprisal to be valid. Otherwise, they'd still be committing piracy.
 
2013-02-27 04:43:40 AM

ThunderPelvis: Show me a single credible source that says that minke whales are endangered. The Japanese catch is primarily minke and their populations are healthy.


What do you consider credible ?
 
2013-02-27 04:51:39 AM
bakarocket:
Whose nation?

Now, are you aware of something called the International Whaling Commission, which is an organization with the goal of limiting the number of whales hunted in order to support a sustainable industry? And that through the actions of the IWC, whale populations are recovering? Not all of them, of course, which is why signatories to the treaty are limiting whaling of certain species.

Or did you think the IWC was trying to save whales because they are cute?


This happened in the US, and the conservation efforts to protect deer (which have been wildly successful and are still going on today) were actually started by hunters, so I'm not sure you really got the comparison there.

The issue is not with the minke whales. The issue is with Japan's BS "research" whaling, including the hunting of sei and sperm whales, both of which are endangered species.
 
2013-02-27 04:51:40 AM

ThunderPelvis: me why whales are some much more AWESOME than cows or pigs or chickens


Numbers, mainly. There are (gu)es(s)timates that there have been only a thousand blue whales, worldwide, in 1991. I have a number in front of me that (gu)es(s)timates the number of cows in the US alone (2008) at slightly under a hundred million. I don't know how reliable either of these numbers are, but I have no special reason to question their order of magnitude.

I didn't look up pigs or chickens, but I expect, given that they're a heavily managed species, that their numbers are equally (and perpetually) impressive.
 
2013-02-27 04:52:09 AM

bakarocket: an organization with the goal of limiting the number of whales hunted in order to support a sustainable industry


I support this idea

a sustainable industry is an ideal goal

But the IWC is less than honest about their control of this one

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with killing and eating any animal
Whale meat is quite delicious, so are cute little bunny rabbits (best served with creamy blue cheese and bread crumbs) but what is being done by the Japanese whalers falls well short of honest business.
My current favourite food is donkey sandwiches.

The behaviour of Japanese whalers deserves more reaction than it is currently getting
 
2013-02-27 04:53:39 AM
You "Letter of Marque" people are funny. You think that would fix anything? No, it would ensure their rapid destruction, as well as a deterioration in relations between Japan and the nation who issued it. Privateers, like Pirates (they are the same thing really) are valid military targets. The Japanese would be completely in the right to sink their ass, and to take the nation issuing it to task for their aggression. There is no legal way to attack a country's ships and have no repercussions, short of having a force they are unwilling to attack. This is a major reason why the Sea Shepard types don't go and use firearms or such. If they did, the Japanese would be legal in using military retaliation.

Same shiat with drug boats and the US Coast Guard. So long as it is just smuggling, the coasties and the DEA are who you have to deal with. However you fire on a USCG ship, they can legally call in the Navy, and will if they need to.

Also as mentioned in this thread, it is their job to get out of the way. Maritime right of way is very different from the road. Other than sail powered craft, the larger boat has the right of way. If you are smaller, you have to move. Anyone with a basic understanding of inertia and momentum can understand why. So if they get too close and get rammed, it is their fault. Doesn't matter if you don't think it is fair, it really is the law for naval navigation. As a practical matter if you are in a small boat and are navigating with any awareness of what you are doing, there is no way a large boat can ram you. They change direction SLOWLY. They can't go and pull a feint or something.

You can argue all you like about the moral standard, but the Sea Shepard people really have no legal standing. Park a small boat in the way of a big boat, you go squish.
 
2013-02-27 04:57:33 AM

sycraft: Same shiat with drug boats and the US Coast Guard


Same shiat with the jap (and chinese) fishing boats that enter New Zealand and Australian waters often to poach.
 
2013-02-27 04:59:35 AM

HotWingAgenda: Why in the flying f*ck would anyone need to kill a whale to research it?  That institute sounds like a thinly veiled front.  Sort of like those tobacco research institutes that are just pro-cancer lobbyists.


It is a thinly veiled front, but it is only way the Japanese can hunt whales because the International Whaling Commission is not doing the job it is supposed to do.

The IWC was once established to regulate hunting and make it more sustainable. Because number were so low, they implemented a temporary ban, which never got lifted anymore because of pressure of the environmentalist groups.

The reality is, that not all whales species are alike. The whales the Japanese hunt mainly, Minke's Whales, are in no way endangered. The "whales are so intelligent" argument also doesn't fly for these kind of whales. There is therefore no reason why the hunt of the whales shouldn't be allowed with a quota.

But, the IWC is not doing anything, so whale hunting countries have two choices: find a loophole (what the Japanese did) in the treaty, or leave or ignore the IWC (what Iceland/Norway did I think).

Another reality is that no one in Japan is really fond of whale meat, eventhough it is cheap. The whale industry is subsidized by the government just because they want to make a point to the IWC.

The solution is really quite simple: The IWC should do its job again, and regulate whaling with quotas for certain species that are no longer endanger.

Then there would be no need anymore for Japan to subsidize the whalers, and the Japanese would actually catch less whales since there isn't a market for it anyway anymore.
 
2013-02-27 05:00:20 AM

sycraft: You can argue all you like about the moral standard, but the Sea Shepard people really have no legal standing. Park a small boat in the way of a big boat, you go squish.


What do you propose they do ? if a law is being abused.
Prepare a sternly written letter ?
 
2013-02-27 05:00:47 AM

bakarocket: Whose nation?


The US.
 
2013-02-27 05:02:43 AM

bikkurikun: The whales the Japanese hunt mainly, Minke's Whales, are in no way endangered. The "whales are so intelligent"


hunt "MAINLY" is not an excuse
"exclusively" would be better

I agree that intelligence (or the perception thereof) is not appropriate

// my dog is more intelligent than most humans I run into
 
2013-02-27 05:09:20 AM

Slartibartfaster: bikkurikun: The whales the Japanese hunt mainly, Minke's Whales, are in no way endangered. The "whales are so intelligent"

hunt "MAINLY" is not an excuse
"exclusively" would be better

I agree that intelligence (or the perception thereof) is not appropriate

// my dog is more intelligent than most humans I run into


Sure, but again then the IWC should start working again. Give quotas for whale species that are not endangered anymore so they can be hunted sustainably, and in turn get rid of the "research" loophole.
 
2013-02-27 05:09:40 AM

Kraftwerk Orange: It's not that they hate whales, it's that they love them too much!

Love to eat them, that is.


Which is a nice little lie, actually.  According to a poll last year, only 10% of the polled populace had bought any in the last year, and most of them that had, only once.  They have thousands of tonnes of the stuff piled up in warehouses.

No one really wants to eat it, so they're forcing it on public schools for their mandatory school lunch programmes (all elementary schools serve lunch), and making it into dog food.

And since it's incredibly unprofitable, the industry survives only through large government subsidies, which 90% of the population are against.  Most Japanese don't give a raggedy rat's arse about whale meat or whaling.

Now, try and stop bluefin tuna fishing and you'll see the Japanese population rain down hellfire.
 
2013-02-27 05:13:26 AM

bikkurikun: Give quotas for whale species that are not endangered anymore so they can be hunted sustainably, and in turn get rid of the "research" loophole


totally agreed
until then the japs are on par with the pirates in my mind
but I agree
 
2013-02-27 05:14:41 AM

Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.


No. What the Japanese do is completely legal. Australia though, is not following international laws by declaring certain areas "protected" eventhough they have no internationally accepted jurisdiction over those areas.

The Japanese are acting in full compliance with international laws and treaties. Australia and Sea Shepherd are not.
 
2013-02-27 05:15:17 AM
if_i_really_have_to:
Now, try and stop bluefin tuna fishing and you'll see the Japanese population rain down hellfire.

Which is too bad because they're even more endangered than whales.
 
2013-02-27 05:21:10 AM

Draq: if_i_really_have_to:
Now, try and stop bluefin tuna fishing and you'll see the Japanese population rain down hellfire.

Which is too bad because they're even more endangered than whales.


The fishing practices used for catching them also threatens many other species.
I stood in the fish market in tokyo at 5am once, more fish than I have ever seen (and that was just one day)

Japanese fishing methods are not sustainable.
Chinese are improving but still behind the rest of the world.
 
2013-02-27 05:21:14 AM

Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: Show me a single credible source that says that minke whales are endangered. The Japanese catch is primarily minke and their populations are healthy.

What do you consider credible ?


I'm open-minded. What do you have?
 
2013-02-27 05:23:20 AM
I'm not sure who I hate more in this scenario.  At the moment, the hippie farks are in the wrong, and should be repelled with lethal force.  Still, I'd be happy to see the laws changed, so the Japanese have to stop whaling, or face the same level of force.

It might be different if whale meat was really tasty...
 
2013-02-27 05:27:51 AM

ThunderPelvis: primarily


This is the word that I object to

exclusively would be fine
 
2013-02-27 05:29:23 AM

RatMaster999: It might be different if whale meat was really tasty...


it tastes like salty beef
(and the bones are precious to my ancestors for carving)
 
2013-02-27 05:33:01 AM

Aulus: So, is this leading to getting to see Hayden Panettiere in a sexy pirate costume?  Please?


she only saves the dolphins not the whales
 
2013-02-27 05:43:34 AM

albatros183: People that kill whalers deserve the hero tag

/Kill one of the few not evil sapient species, your stupid


Moron. Seriously.

Whales are basically seagoing cows. If they had been half as smart as people like you thought they were, there would be no such thing as whaling. Why? Because they'd be gone long before the whalers show up.
 
2013-02-27 05:46:11 AM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


Do you hate the food on your plate?
 
2013-02-27 05:57:29 AM

msupf: "Killing whales for research on their impact on our fisheries" is a bullshiat reason even if true, and they know it. How many other biological or environmental studies call for the wholesale murder of at-risk species in order to conduct the research? If you have to kill thousands every year, maybe the research isn't that necessary.


First of all, not all whales are endangered. Secondly, the real threat to the whales doesn't come from whaling, but from pollution. The pollution you're causing by the way you live. In part by the build-up of toxins in whales, in part by the carbonization of the ocean due to CO2 emission.

If you want to "save the whales," park your car / motorcycle for good and stop using products that result in toxins being released. Start by changing your life instead of demanding that others change theirs. Either that or accept that you're a smeggin hypocrite.

/yeah, I'm norwegian
//you whale lovers are a bunch of ignorant fools
 
2013-02-27 06:13:03 AM

Uncle Tractor: msupf: "Killing whales for research on their impact on our fisheries" is a bullshiat reason even if true, and they know it. How many other biological or environmental studies call for the wholesale murder of at-risk species in order to conduct the research? If you have to kill thousands every year, maybe the research isn't that necessary.

First of all, not all whales are endangered. Secondly, the real threat to the whales doesn't come from whaling, but from pollution. The pollution you're causing by the way you live. In part by the build-up of toxins in whales, in part by the carbonization of the ocean due to CO2 emission.

If you want to "save the whales," park your car / motorcycle for good and stop using products that result in toxins being released. Start by changing your life instead of demanding that others change theirs. Either that or accept that you're a smeggin hypocrite.

/yeah, I'm norwegian
//you whale lovers are a bunch of ignorant fools


Yeah that's a lovely cop out isn't it, blaming people who are indirectly harming recovery efforts through honestly very little fault of their own given the technologies most people have access to and the low level of choice you actually have in what your lifestyle requires.

No, I think I'm going to keep putting a good amount of blame on the people who are deliberately going out and killing endangered species.
 
2013-02-27 06:14:08 AM
OK, how does a US judge get to say anything about this at all??? Since when has the US had jurisdiction over what happens in Australian waters?? The US court can go fark itself.
 
2013-02-27 06:14:48 AM
Minke whales are the same as wolves in the Upper Great Lakes and grizzlies in Montana/Idaho in that managed hunting should be allowed. By allowing limited hunts you satisfy all parties and keep the whaling culture intact.
 
2013-02-27 06:17:45 AM

insertsnarkyusername: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?


No, they are doing it in Australian waters.
 
2013-02-27 06:20:28 AM
1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.
 
2013-02-27 06:22:33 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Minke whales are the same as wolves in the Upper Great Lakes and grizzlies in Montana/Idaho in that managed hunting should be allowed. By allowing limited hunts you satisfy all parties and keep the whaling culture intact.


THIS. But the do-gooder progressive idiots don't want the facts, they want to feel morally superior while telling others how to live their lives. Try to tell them how to live, though, and you'll never hear the end of "you can't tell me how to live. Don't force your morality onto me!11!!'.

Hypocrites.
 
2013-02-27 06:25:43 AM

accelerus: Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?

they don't hate all sea life -- ever seen one of those freaky/creepy pornos where the asian lady does crazy stuff with an octopus?

On a serious note -- If I was out making a living and these hippy douche rockets showed up ramming my boat and being dicks. Yeah I'd have a mounted .50cal on the deck. I think the whaling boats have shown great restraint only using water cannons up until now. They are whaling for food -- what's the problem with that? If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.

You'd probably be pretty pissed if I showed up uninvited to your job, and tore up all your papers, destroyed your computer, and constantly was ramming my chair into your chair.


Since they are pirates now -- do we get to watch some more awesome stuff where they take the hippy cock gobblers out with a sniper shot from a rolling and bobbing boat?


Actually, the Japanese are breaking numerous international laws, including, but not limited to:

Entering Australian waters with an armed ship
Taking a ship with heavy fuel into the Antarctic
Whaling illegally in a wildlife refuge
Killing whales for food, while claiming it is "research"

etc. etc. But you go right ahead and keep believing that the Japanese are in the right and those "damned hippies" are the ones who are doing wrong.

As for "cock gobblers", I guess you must really hate fellatio. Too bad for you.
 
2013-02-27 06:30:53 AM

Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.


Three things wrong with those three things.

1. The Japanese hunt sei and sperm whale, which are endangered.
2. Japan doesn't eat the crap, nobody wants it. They just want the whaling culture.
3. It's EVERYONE's business when they hunt a migratory species, and it's very definitely Australia's business when they're doing it in Australian waters.
 
2013-02-27 06:36:11 AM

Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.


1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.
 
2013-02-27 06:36:42 AM

Great Porn Dragon: Deathfrogg: The Sea Shepard ships are flagged in New Zealand and Australia. Australia has claimed sovereignty over the whole southern ocean between Australia and Antarctica, and ANZUS maritime treaties back that claim. The Japanese are poaching in Australian national waters.

Then all the better reason for the Sea Shepherd to have worked with the Australian and/or New Zealand governments to get a formal letter of marque and reprisal (which would have legally covered their ass from claims of piracy, of note; with that letter, they're basically working as a private agent authorised expressly by the government to prevent whaling ships from conducting illegal activity, and Japan would have to biatch to the Australian or New Zealand government instead of trying to prosecute the Sea Shepherd crew for what is seen as the One Big Unforgivable in maritime law).

I'm not a fan of the tactics they use, but I can at least understand WHY they're going for direct action--but again, maritime law is a rather different beast than On-Shore National Law and the potential penalties for monkeywrenching are sufficiently severe that you really want to cover your ass doing this--and if you can cover your ass by having an official governmental document basically making you James Bond of the High Seas, even better.

(And by "considerably more serious"...well, for similar bits of monkeywrenching on land you'd just at best get charged with vandalism or felony destruction of property, you might get a restraining order against you, but even if your group is part of an organised domestic terrorist organisation you still aren't going to have as severe penalties as Monkeywrenching At Sea.  The latter tends to be defined as the Crime of Sabotage or the Crime of Piracy, both of which are literally capital offenses in many countries--piracy in particular is taken so seriously that in some countries the only death penalty offenses that remain on the books are the crimes of high treason and piracy.  In ...


The US are definitely NOT going to blow anyone's ass up over this. It's taking place in AUSTRALIAN waters, and if the US sent a warship into Australian waters without invitation, that's an act of war against Australia. It may have escaped your attention, but the US and Australia are allies. NOT going to happen.
 
2013-02-27 06:43:31 AM
These guys refit in Melbourne and give tours of their ships.  They had what they called a "can opener" which was a large I beam that extended from the ship but I think they removed it.

These idiots could end Japanese whaling with very little effort.  All they need to do is pick up some radio active tracer and put it in one of the tranquilliser guns.  They can shoot the dying whales or lots of them but have photos of them doing it and then get a TV crew in Japan to go the large fish markets with a Giger counter. The support for whaling would dry up after one news show and then the problem would be gone forever.
 
2013-02-27 06:54:48 AM

Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.


Japanese whaling falls under research laws.  I don't agree witht hat, but the courts do.

Japanese ships have never rammed sea shepard, any more than you would "ram" a car that cut you off and slammed on their brakes before it was physically possible for you to slam the breaks.

fark them.

If Japan got  aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.
 
2013-02-27 07:05:43 AM

bikkurikun: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

No. What the Japanese do is completely legal. Australia though, is not following international laws by declaring certain areas "protected" eventhough they have no internationally accepted jurisdiction over those areas.

The Japanese are acting in full compliance with international laws and treaties. Australia and Sea Shepherd are not.


No it isn't. I've listed several of the illegal things the Japanese are doing. They are most certainly NOT acting in full compliance with international laws and treaties. Neither is Sea Shepherd, but I have a lot more sympathy for them, as they are acting non-violently in protest against the illegal actions of the Japanese.
 
2013-02-27 07:08:11 AM

liam76: fark them.

If Japan got aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.


No you wouldn't, you pussy. This shiat takes place in Antarctica, and you haven't got the gonads to spend time on a ship in Antarctica. You'd freeze your tiny little dick off.

/farking ITG pussies - I hate em!
 
2013-02-27 07:10:55 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: Entering Australian waters with an armed ship - When did this happen?
Taking a ship with heavy fuel into the Antarctic - What treaty are they party to that doesn't allow this?
Whaling illegally in a wildlife refuge - What treaty are they party to that declares it a wildlife refuge?  I thought Australia was unilaterally declaring that.
Killing whales for food, while claiming it is "research" - What treaty are they party to that says whales used for research can't later be eaten?


RealFarknMcCoy2: etc. etc. But you go right ahead and keep believing that the Japanese are in the right and those "damned hippies" are the ones who are doing wrong.


I don't think they are "in the right" but I don't believe they are breaking the law.
Change the laws treaties if you have a problem with their actions, don't go out and attack or vandalize their ships.
 
2013-02-27 07:14:08 AM

IRQ12: IANAL but my understanding of it is basically the vessel with the ability to safely avoid collision  mustdo so.  There really is no hard rule of who has the "right of way" like on roads, and there's clear rules on how vessels approach each other and what signals from lighting to horn blasts mean.

From what I have seen in the show they have shown a clear disregard for all of these rules/laws and that any judge would side with them is appalling.

This is coming from someone who thinks a lot of the whaling practices are abhorrent.


I'm going to copy something that was posted to Reddit because it's faster than typing out the same thing myself:

The Bob Barker is very much in the wrong in this situation. These two vessels are undergoing an operation known as "underway replenishment". Vessels engaged in this operation become "restricted in their ability to manoeuvre (RAM)". I am unable to see from the video whether or not she is displaying her day shapes to indicate so, but either way the Nisshin Maru has properly warned the Bob Barker to keep clear. As the Nisshin Maru is RAM, the Bob Barker, which is under "power-driven vessel" status must avoid a vessel RAM. COLREGs Rule 18 (a)(ii)
The second mistake is the attempt to overtake these two ships so close. This is a direct violation of COLREGs Rule 13 (d) which governs overtaking. "Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear." Because of the fact that the Bob Barker is within 22.5 degrees abaft (behind) the beam (line in the middle from side to side) of both vessels, she is to keep well clear and safely overtake the vessels on either the port or starboard sides.

Any remotely competent mariner would not find themselves in this position. a smaller vessel like the Bob Barker should not have much difficulty avoiding this even near the start of this video. The Bob Barker should have used astern propulsion to remove herself from the middle of these two vessels.
 
2013-02-27 07:14:12 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76: fark them.

If Japan got aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.

No you wouldn't, you pussy. This shiat takes place in Antarctica, and you haven't got the gonads to spend time on a ship in Antarctica. You'd freeze your tiny little dick off.

/farking ITG pussies - I hate em Love thinking about their dicks!


FTFY.

RealFarknMcCoy2: No it isn't. I've listed several of the illegal things the Japanese are doing.


You have claimed severl things are illegal but provided no proof.
 
2013-02-27 07:14:52 AM

Seth'n'Spectrum: [bradfordschmidt.com image 324x205]
Shepherd.

[i9.photobucket.com image 324x186]
Wrecks.


This is my favorite post on the Citadel.
 
2013-02-27 07:16:29 AM

liam76: RealFarknMcCoy2: Entering Australian waters with an armed ship - When did this happen?
Taking a ship with heavy fuel into the Antarctic - What treaty are they party to that doesn't allow this?
Whaling illegally in a wildlife refuge - What treaty are they party to that declares it a wildlife refuge?  I thought Australia was unilaterally declaring that.
Killing whales for food, while claiming it is "research" - What treaty are they party to that says whales used for research can't later be eaten?

RealFarknMcCoy2: etc. etc. But you go right ahead and keep believing that the Japanese are in the right and those "damned hippies" are the ones who are doing wrong.

I don't think they are "in the right" but I don't believe they are breaking the law.
Change the laws treaties if you have a problem with their actions, don't go out and attack or vandalize their ships.


Just some quick googling, but...

http://2041.com/ban-on-heavy-fuel-oil-in-antarctica/
http://www.asoc.org/issues-and-advocacy/antarctic-wildlife-conservat io n/southern-ocean-whale-sanctuary
 
2013-02-27 07:16:47 AM
They are acting like pirates, it's good that the courts recognize that fact. If they want change, they really need to rally the forces behind changing international treaty limits on whaling.
 
2013-02-27 07:19:31 AM

liam76: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76: fark them.

If Japan got aletter of Marquee, I woudl be all about signing on to kill those farkers.

No you wouldn't, you pussy. This shiat takes place in Antarctica, and you haven't got the gonads to spend time on a ship in Antarctica. You'd freeze your tiny little dick off.

/farking ITG pussies - I hate em Love thinking about their dicks!

FTFY.

RealFarknMcCoy2: No it isn't. I've listed several of the illegal things the Japanese are doing.

You have claimed severl things are illegal but provided no proof.


Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.
 
2013-02-27 07:20:59 AM

pkellmey: They are acting like pirates, it's good that the courts recognize that fact. If they want change, they really need to rally the forces behind changing international treaty limits on whaling.


The limit on whaling for food is 0. The Japanese are flouting the law in numerous ways. Australia should start confiscating the Japanese whaling ships, but sadly, won't.
 
2013-02-27 07:23:34 AM

SniperJoe: Any remotely competent mariner would not find themselves in this position. a smaller vessel like the Bob Barker should not have much difficulty avoiding this even near the start of this video. The Bob Barker should have used astern propulsion to remove herself from the middle of these two vessels.


But that wouldn't make good television.
 
2013-02-27 07:26:09 AM
People here keep saying that the Japanese don't like whale meat. So I did an informal survey of my students. They are all Japanese elementary students who get the government lunch. On a scale of 1-10 the lowest rating was a 5. Whale meat mostly scored 7 or 8 because they preferred beef or chicken. So whatever that means.
It's the older folks, those that grew up in the post war years that don't like it much. They just had to eat too damn much of it. Sometimes that was the only meat available. The kids don't have this association.
/When I tell Japanese that I love venison they look at me like I'm some kind of vampire cannibal. They can't believe that I would eat a deer.
 
2013-02-27 07:27:46 AM
All commercial ships should mount at least four 50 caliber machine guns on them to deter piracy.

At the first biological weapon hurled (and yes, the anti-whaling pussies do this), open fire. Problem goes away within a month.
 
2013-02-27 07:28:05 AM
The hippies are not in Australian waters. All countries gave up thier Antarctic claims so that none can exploit its minerals etc. When the a$&holes touch the Japanese ships and step on them that's illegal boarding. An armed response is warranted then. Btw if the Aussies are harboring these pirates then the Japanese can enter any port they are sailing out of and sink the ships.
 
2013-02-27 07:31:18 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.


Though, to point out that we're a bit off the rails here, this thread is about a random set of assholes who sabotage ship propulsion in arctic waters getting called out on it, which is illegal as all hell and criminal in the moral sense even if what their victims are doing is also bullshiat.

It's sort of like if a restaurant refused to serve me because I'm black, and in response I pulled a gun and killed the maitre'd and sous chef.  Yes, they're breaking the law, but I'm still a filthy murderer that deserves every bit of jail time I've got coming.  Two wrongs and so on.
 
2013-02-27 07:36:12 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: The hippies are not in Australian waters. All countries gave up thier Antarctic claims so that none can exploit its minerals etc. When the a$&holes touch the Japanese ships and step on them that's illegal boarding. An armed response is warranted then. Btw if the Aussies are harboring these pirates then the Japanese can enter any port they are sailing out of and sink the ships.


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.
 
2013-02-27 07:38:44 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:

Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.


Oh, come on. Do some actual research yourself. Again, the "whale sanctuary" is something that is unilaterally declared by Australia, concerning areas over which other countries do not accept Australia's claim. They can declare what they want, but they do not have any real jurisdiction over it, and it is certainly not covered in any treaty to which Japan is a member. Japan, or any other country operating in the whale sanctuary is therefore doing nothing in contradiction with international maritime law.


As for the fuel oil, that could be in violation of the marpol treaty to which japan is a member, but you would first have to proof that it is actually the case. So far there is only a suspicion /accusation voiced by sea shepherd but no proof.
 
2013-02-27 07:41:00 AM

Jim_Callahan: RealFarknMcCoy2: Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.

Though, to point out that we're a bit off the rails here, this thread is about a random set of assholes who sabotage ship propulsion in arctic waters getting called out on it, which is illegal as all hell and criminal in the moral sense even if what their victims are doing is also bullshiat.

It's sort of like if a restaurant refused to serve me because I'm black, and in response I pulled a gun and killed the maitre'd and sous chef.  Yes, they're breaking the law, but I'm still a filthy murderer that deserves every bit of jail time I've got coming.  Two wrongs and so on.


Except, of course, Sea Shepherd have not harmed or killed anyone at all, so your analogy is completely full of shiat. But other than that, yeah, they are both breaking laws. Sea Shepherd is breaking the law in protest, kinda like Rosa Parks did. Or like anti-forestry protesters do.
 
2013-02-27 07:41:23 AM

Draq: http://www.asoc.org/issues-and-advocacy/antarctic-wildlife-conservat io n/southern-ocean-whale-sanctuary



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctuary#Dispute_o v er_legality">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctu ary#Dispute_ov er_legality

No court or external body has ruled if it is legal.

Your own link mentions the area, and also mentions Japan's research permit there, and while it questions it's scientific value it never says it is illegal.

Draq: http://2041.com/ban-on-heavy-fuel-oil-in-antarctica/


Thanks, but where is the proof that Japan is violating this?


I am generally against (asided from light whaling of non endangered species), but anyone with half a brain who has even seen their show  (much less researched them) knows that sea shepard and his ilk do routinely break maritime laws and have aboslutely no problem lying.

I have no problem believing that Japan may be breaking laws, but I have seen no proof.
 
2013-02-27 07:42:02 AM

Thunderpipes: All commercial ships should mount at least four 50 caliber machine guns on them to deter piracy.

At the first biological weapon hurled (and yes, the anti-whaling pussies do this), open fire. Problem goes away within a month.


So basically you're advocating declaring war on Australia. Because that's what bringing an armed vessel into international waters and attacking somebody means.
 
2013-02-27 07:42:29 AM
1) It's not Australian waters. It's an economic exclusion zone (EEZ). 12 miles from shore is the internationally recognized limit and any warship from any nation has a right to be there, including those that use heavy fuels as they are specifically excluded from the treaty that governs the use of heavy fuels below 60s. Those waters also fall under the Antarctic treaty which limits almost any military actions outside of a declared war.

2) Technically speaking now that the Sea Shepherds have been deemed in a US Federal court to be a pirate organization any SS ship in US waters or in international waters (EEZ excluded) can (and probably will in the case of US territorial or EEZ waters) be confiscated by US Naval or Coast Guard ships and any current or future crew members that set foot on US shores can be arrested and prosecuted as maritime pirates.

This means that in theory the US could wait until the SS ships are transiting on the high seas at which time they could be boarded and the ships and all equipment aboard confiscated while the crew could be prosecuted under international maritime piracy laws. As it stands the Sea Shepherds have done what they can to minimize the odds of this happening by having Watson (the former Captain) step down and take a position as a deck hand (although any court is still going to see this as a thinly veiled legal tactic and may still consider Watson to be the de-facto captain of any Sea Shepherd ship that he is on, but it's all that the Sea Shepherds can do aside from putting him ashore permanently as he is specifically mentioned in this legal ruling).

The Sea Shepherds have brought this all upon themselves and will get no sympathy from me if they end up being prosecuted and put out of business. They have repeatedly and intentionally placed or attempted to place themselves and others lives in dire risk on the high seas.
 
2013-02-27 07:42:43 AM

Slartibartfaster: Draq: if_i_really_have_to:
Now, try and stop bluefin tuna fishing and you'll see the Japanese population rain down hellfire.

Which is too bad because they're even more endangered than whales.

The fishing practices used for catching them also threatens many other species.
I stood in the fish market in tokyo at 5am once, more fish than I have ever seen (and that was just one day)

Japanese fishing methods are not sustainable.
Chinese are improving but still behind the rest of the world.


50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming. Japan is actively trying to farm raise blue fin.
http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature10.html
 
2013-02-27 07:44:46 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None


Which point do you dispute Ms/Mr number two ?
 
2013-02-27 07:45:33 AM

bikkurikun: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:

Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.

Oh, come on. Do some actual research yourself. Again, the "whale sanctuary" is something that is unilaterally declared by Australia, concerning areas over which other countries do not accept Australia's claim. They can declare what they want, but they do not have any real jurisdiction over it, and it is certainly not covered in any treaty to which Japan is a member. Japan, or any other country operating in the whale sanctuary is therefore doing nothing in contradiction with international maritime law.


As for the fuel oil, that could be in violation of the marpol treaty to which japan is a member, but you would first have to proof that it is actually the case. So far there is only a suspicion /accusation voiced by sea shepherd but no proof.


The international whaling comission established a whaling sanctuary, but Japan's "research permit" still applies there.
 
2013-02-27 07:45:56 AM

bikkurikun: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:

Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.

Oh, come on. Do some actual research yourself. Again, the "whale sanctuary" is something that is unilaterally declared by Australia, concerning areas over which other countries do not accept Australia's claim. They can declare what they want, but they do not have any real jurisdiction over it, and it is certainly not covered in any treaty to which Japan is a member. Japan, or any other country operating in the whale sanctuary is therefore doing nothing in contradiction with international maritime law.


As for the fuel oil, that could be in violation of the marpol treaty to which japan is a member, but you would first have to proof that it is actually the case. So far there is only a suspicion /accusation voiced by sea shepherd but no proof.


No proof??? The ship was REFUELLING from the farking thing!! How simple-minded ARE you, exactly?

Sorry, I'd love to stay up past midnight reading your astonishingly stupid posts, but I've got to work tomorrow...
 
2013-02-27 07:46:47 AM

Digipr0f69: 50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming


Glad to hear that.
Aquafarming is dangerous too, but it is more potentially sustainable than wild catch and has a far lower risk of collateral damage (it still causes some but imho less). Thank you for sharing the link.
 
2013-02-27 07:47:08 AM

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.


Yes, and you will then find out that in anticipation of this, the Japanese stationed one of their submarines in the general vicinity.

You play with the big boys by big boy rules, don't be surprised to find yourself on the end of the torpedo.  Or two.  And unfortunately, due to a mix-up in communications, the rescue effort for any survivors will be "delayed".

/And not a tear will be shed.
 
2013-02-27 07:47:18 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: pkellmey: They are acting like pirates, it's good that the courts recognize that fact. If they want change, they really need to rally the forces behind changing international treaty limits on whaling.

The limit on whaling for food is 0. The Japanese are flouting the law in numerous ways. Australia should start confiscating the Japanese whaling ships, but sadly, won't.


If the pirates have a problem with this, they need to rally behind international treaty limits on whaling. If there aren't any, criminal activity against whalers needs to be stopped. It is not their job to be international cops; there are authorities for that. If Australia wanted to protect their waters, they would be doing so.
 
2013-02-27 07:50:59 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: bikkurikun: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:

Don't be such a farkwit. ALL of the things I have named are VERY clear violations of laws and treaties, and all you need to do is google them. The Japanese are breaking multiple laws, which is why Australia is taking them to court over it.

Oh, come on. Do some actual research yourself. Again, the "whale sanctuary" is something that is unilaterally declared by Australia, concerning areas over which other countries do not accept Australia's claim. They can declare what they want, but they do not have any real jurisdiction over it, and it is certainly not covered in any treaty to which Japan is a member. Japan, or any other country operating in the whale sanctuary is therefore doing nothing in contradiction with international maritime law.


As for the fuel oil, that could be in violation of the marpol treaty to which japan is a member, but you would first have to proof that it is actually the case. So far there is only a suspicion /accusation voiced by sea shepherd but no proof.

No proof??? The ship was REFUELLING from the farking thing!! How simple-minded ARE you, exactly?

Sorry, I'd love to stay up past midnight reading your astonishingly stupid posts, but I've got to work tomorrow...


And refueling = illegal to you?
 
2013-02-27 07:52:08 AM
liam76:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctuary#Dispute_ o v er_legality">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctu ary#Dispute_ov er_legality

No court or external body has ruled if it is legal.

Your own link mentions the area, and also mentions Japan's research permit there, and while it questions it's scientific value it never says it is illegal.


The ICW ruled it, and Japan is party to the ICW's rules. That's why they disputed it instead of simply ignoring it. And their "research" is a joke, there is no reason whatsoever to be killing the volume of whales that they are, or any whales at all, especially when they claim it's to research their population trends and impact on fishing. Normally you'd need them alive for that.

Sea Shepherds may have a history of lying, but Japan has a history of violating international treaties, quotas, and maritime law. They just do not care.
 
2013-02-27 07:52:42 AM

liam76: bikkurikun: RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76:


The international whaling comission established a whaling sanctuary, but Japan's "research permit" still applies there.


I know, but on top of that there is also the Australian Whale Sanctuary, which includes some areas in Antarctic waters. However Australia's claims on those waters have only been recognized by 4 or 5 countries. The Japanese, not recognizing those claims, are hunting there.
 
2013-02-27 07:54:05 AM
Digipr0f69:
50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming. Japan is actively trying to farm raise blue fin.
http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature10.html


That's probably because of the time they got penalized for taking in over fifty times their allowed bluefin quota.
 
2013-02-27 08:00:42 AM

Draq: Digipr0f69:
50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming. Japan is actively trying to farm raise blue fin.
http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature10.html

That's probably because of the time they got penalized for taking in over fifty times their allowed bluefin quota.


Do you have a citation for that?
 
2013-02-27 08:00:55 AM
Draq:

Sea Shepherds may have a history of lying, but Japan has a history of violating international treaties, quotas, and maritime law. They just do not care.

A loophole is not a violation. Again, they are not violating any treaty, nor maritime law. Just because you want them to stop for whatever reason, does not make what they do illegal.

 They are using the loophole to continue hunting since the IWC is hijacked by ennvironmental activists and unable to do what it is supposed to do, which is regulating hunting. If the IWC sets reasonable quotas for species that are not endangered, I am sure Japan will not mind if the loopholes are closed
 
2013-02-27 08:01:52 AM

Mitrovarr: The research excuse for the whaling is kind of hilarious. As a biologist, let me say you would never in a million years get a study like that past an ethics board. Large animal research is never conducted by killing the animals in significant numbers. Not even when the animals are abundant.


What if they're coming right at you?
 
2013-02-27 08:05:10 AM

Slartibartfaster: sycraft: You can argue all you like about the moral standard, but the Sea Shepard people really have no legal standing. Park a small boat in the way of a big boat, you go squish.

What do you propose they do ? if a law is being abused.
Prepare a sternly written letter ?


Exactly what they're doing, sue the hippies.
 
2013-02-27 08:06:35 AM

Digipr0f69: Draq: Digipr0f69:
50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming. Japan is actively trying to farm raise blue fin.
http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature10.html

That's probably because of the time they got penalized for taking in over fifty times their allowed bluefin quota.

Do you have a citation for that?


I do, actually. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/oct/17/fishing.food
 
2013-02-27 08:07:52 AM

Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?


Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.
 
2013-02-27 08:12:14 AM

PunGent: Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?

Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3359.htm I'm sure there are better sources, but white tail deer are really a success story for conservation efforts. That's why we've still got deer quotas.
 
2013-02-27 08:12:15 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: Mid_mo_mad_man: The hippies are not in Australian waters. All countries gave up thier Antarctic claims so that none can exploit its minerals etc. When the a$&holes touch the Japanese ships and step on them that's illegal boarding. An armed response is warranted then. Btw if the Aussies are harboring these pirates then the Japanese can enter any port they are sailing out of and sink the ships.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.




On what part? 12 miles is the limit of national waters. The Aussies have no more claim to those waters then Canada. As for hunting pirates if your ports harbor them tradition allows navies to chase them to thier ports
 
2013-02-27 08:12:56 AM

bikkurikun: Draq:

Sea Shepherds may have a history of lying, but Japan has a history of violating international treaties, quotas, and maritime law. They just do not care.

A loophole is not a violation. Again, they are not violating any treaty, nor maritime law. Just because you want them to stop for whatever reason, does not make what they do illegal.

 They are using the loophole to continue hunting since the IWC is hijacked by ennvironmental activists and unable to do what it is supposed to do, which is regulating hunting. If the IWC sets reasonable quotas for species that are not endangered, I am sure Japan will not mind if the loopholes are closed


Marine biologists are still trying to figure out the effects of mass whaling from the LAST century, so I think a teensy bit of caution is in order...since, you know, the ocean is kind of important to those of us who breathe oxygen...

Dilemma of the Commons ftl.
 
2013-02-27 08:15:22 AM

Draq: PunGent: Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?

Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3359.htm I'm sure there are better sources, but white tail deer are really a success story for conservation efforts. That's why we've still got deer quotas.


Ah, OK, just Indiana, not nationwide.   Thanks for the link.

/Wishes our ancestors had saved us some carrier pigeons...might've been tasty.
//favors sustainable hunting and fishing
 
2013-02-27 08:16:07 AM

Draq: The ICW ruled it, and Japan is party to the ICW's rules. That's why they disputed it instead of simply ignoring it. And their "research" is a joke, there is no reason whatsoever to be killing the volume of whales that they are, or any whales at all, especially when they claim it's to research their population trends and impact on fishing. Normally you'd need them alive for that.

Sea Shepherds may have a history of lying, but Japan has a history of violating international treaties, quotas, and maritime law. They just do not care


I have seen nothing that showed an ICW body decided that their "research" permit doesn;t apply.

I agree their "research" is a joke (and I think I have made it clear, witht he quotes and actually pointing that out in othe rposts), but it is technically legal.

Japan has a history of violating the spirit, I don't see any proof they violated the letter.

/not sayinmg that makes it right but it does make it legal.
 
2013-02-27 08:18:39 AM

PunGent: .since, you know, the ocean is kind of important to those of us who breathe oxygen...


Whales are using up OUR oxygen!!! Kill 'em all I say, more for us.
 
2013-02-27 08:18:46 AM

PunGent: bikkurikun:

Marine biologists are still trying to figure out the effects of mass whaling from the LAST century, so I think a teensy bit of caution is in order...since, you know, the ocean is kind of important to those of us who breathe oxygen...

Dilemma of the Commons ftl.


There are about half a million Minke Whales. Catching a few hundreds every year will not do any real harm to the population.
 
2013-02-27 08:21:24 AM
It is time the courts state that the Sea Shepherd  clowns are pirates.... which is exactly what they are.

It is long overdue for the Japanese to send an escort warship to the Antarctic, board the Sea Shepherd  ships, and take these pirates to Japan and place them on trial... with appropriate long prison sentences.
 
2013-02-27 08:22:39 AM

Draq: Digipr0f69: Draq: Digipr0f69:
50% of Japans catch is the result of Aquafarming. Japan is actively trying to farm raise blue fin.
http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature10.html

That's probably because of the time they got penalized for taking in over fifty times their allowed bluefin quota.

Do you have a citation for that?

I do, actually. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/oct/17/fishing.food


Thanks. I found this interesting:
Japan and Australia, whose annual quota stayed at just over 5,200 tonnes, account for about 80% of the global southern bluefin tuna catch, most of which ends up as sashimi or sushi.
Yet Australia used retail sales of blue fin in Japan as evidence of over fishing despite exporting blue fin to Japan.
But Japan did agree to cut it's quota.
 
2013-02-27 08:24:49 AM
This thread is incomplete without a link to the South PArk "Whale Whores" episode.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e11-whale-whores
 
2013-02-27 08:39:45 AM

Aulus: So, is this leading to getting to see Hayden Panettiere in a sexy pirate costume?  Please?


I don't know how you got to this conclusion, but I like it!
 
2013-02-27 08:43:41 AM
Protestors are pirates and whalers are poachers.

/sink them all and let Davy Jones sort it out.
/Our navy needs the target practice.
 
2013-02-27 08:51:15 AM

DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.


Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law
 
2013-02-27 08:54:25 AM

Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: primarily

This is the word that I object to

exclusively would be fine


Well, by that impenetrable moral standard, I'm sure all your hamburger is exclusively beef! Chow down, my good man!
 
2013-02-27 08:55:39 AM

Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law


[citation needed]
 
2013-02-27 09:13:09 AM

PunGent: Draq: PunGent: Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?

Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3359.htm I'm sure there are better sources, but white tail deer are really a success story for conservation efforts. That's why we've still got deer quotas.

Ah, OK, just Indiana, not nationwide.   Thanks for the link.

/Wishes our ancestors had saved us some carrier pigeons...might've been tasty.
//favors sustainable hunting and fishing


and now white tail deer are are greatly over-populated and kill hundreds of people each year in collusions on the roadways.

Thanks for nothing government.
 
2013-02-27 09:18:02 AM

President Merkin Muffley: notn: yeah, somehow I doubt this is going to stop the Sea Shepard's from doing what their doing.


It's "they're", actually.  The contraction for "they are".

If you're going to be a Word Selection Nazi, at least know your shiat.

And since you decided to publicly correct notn's work...albeit erroneously...you could have cleaned up the unnecessary apostrophe while you were at it.  Then at least you'd have been half right.
 
2013-02-27 09:40:37 AM

jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.


They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.
 
2013-02-27 09:43:48 AM

PunGent: Draq: PunGent: Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?

Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3359.htm I'm sure there are better sources, but white tail deer are really a success story for conservation efforts. That's why we've still got deer quotas.

Ah, OK, just Indiana, not nationwide.   Thanks for the link.

/Wishes our ancestors had saved us some carrier pigeons...might've been tasty.
//favors sustainable hunting and fishing


It was nation-wide:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/03pubs/v er c033.pdf

Look at this graph from that paper:

i51.tinypic.com

That should say it all.
 
2013-02-27 09:59:38 AM
RealFarknMcCoy2:

You sound like you are spouting talking points in all your posts....


 US sent a warship into Australian waters without invitation, that's an act of war against Australia
Entering
  Australian waters with an armed ship

Yeah not so much unless this is within 12nm of Australian coast.

Also you don't always have to be such a farkin dick, kinda makes it seem like you are compensating for something and your valid points get lost in the chaff.
 
2013-02-27 10:18:48 AM

liam76: I am generally against (asided from light whaling of non endangered species), but anyone with half a brain who has even seen their show (much less researched them) knows that sea shepard and his ilk do routinely break maritime laws and have aboslutely no problem lying.


But do go out there, put their arses on the line and stop the Japanese from whaling. The Japanese fleet only caught 10 whales this season and had to call off the hunt after the controversial "ramming" incidents. And if you've noticed, Sea Sheppard now has more money, more ships and more support than ever, so despite their douchiness, they are doing something right. Technically the Australian coast guard should be the ones enforcing the anti whaling rules in the Souther Ocean, but they don't want to have a diplomatic spat with Japan over a bunch of whales, so in the end it's up to people like Sea Sheppard to step in were the authorities refuse to act.

I don't like many of their tactics either, especially their dishonesty when talking to the media, but you have to respect the fact that they go out there and they get results.

/of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing.
 
2013-02-27 10:25:58 AM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


Because asians have yet to meet and animal without thinking "gee, i bet if i ate parts of that, it would help my penis"
 
2013-02-27 10:26:25 AM

Bad_Seed: liam76: I am generally against (asided from light whaling of non endangered species), but anyone with half a brain who has even seen their show (much less researched them) knows that sea shepard and his ilk do routinely break maritime laws and have aboslutely no problem lying.

But do go out there, put their arses on the line and stop the Japanese from whaling.


They stopped one ship.

Very few of them "put their ass onthe line".  they make a big shwo of it, but not a single one is really willing to die for their cause as they all claim.

Bad_Seed: And if you've noticed, Sea Sheppard now has more money, more ships and more support than ever, so despite their douchiness, they are doing something right.


Getting more assets to do more douchey things isn't doing anything "right" in my book.

Bad_Seed: Technically the Australian coast guard should be the ones enforcing the anti whaling rules in the Souther Ocean, but they don't want to have a diplomatic spat with Japan over a bunch of whales, so in the end it's up to people like Sea Sheppard to step in were the authorities refuse to act.


The australian coast guard has no authority there accoridng to international law.

Bad_Seed: /of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing


I can't get behind that.  Every action that the Japanese has taken has only been possible because Sea shepard is doing dangerous and illegal things.  If they aren't dressed to handle water, they aren't dressed for the envoronment they are working in.
 
2013-02-27 10:30:47 AM

arjayct: President Merkin Muffley: notn: yeah, somehow I doubt this is going to stop the Sea Shepard's from doing what their doing.

It's "they're", actually.  The contraction for "they are".

If you're going to be a Word Selection Nazi, at least know your shiat.

And since you decided to publicly correct notn's work...albeit erroneously...you could have cleaned up the unnecessary apostrophe while you were at it.  Then at least you'd have been half right.


I didn't correct anything, I merely highlighted his mistake. Idiot.

/point and laugh.
 
2013-02-27 10:56:15 AM
When I first saw these guys on TV (long before the TV series), I thought it would be cool to see about joining the crew. Then, as the documentary went on, I realized that these people are clinically insane, and the libbyist libs that ever libbed in a hippy, tree-hugging vegan way, but with a violent bent. As a lefty myself, that's saying something.
 
2013-02-27 10:58:59 AM

VendorXeno: Go eat some bacon.


Wait, whales are made out of bacon?

KILL THEM ALL!
 
2013-02-27 11:05:12 AM
I'm at the point that I consider endangered species above most of my fellow humans.   If I were a billionaire I'd buy these guys an old diesel sub and some torpedoes.   Blow the whaling ships and then surface, with a bunch of zodiacs for the survivors to run and tell others of how dangerous the industry has become.
 
2013-02-27 11:07:57 AM
liam76:
I see you've got your GED in International Maritime Law. Better call up the ICJ in the Hague and tell them that the case is settled, liam76 of Fark.com has made a ruling. They should be pleased to hear of it.

I can't get behind that.  Every action that the Japanese has taken has only been possible because Sea shepard is doing dangerous and illegal things.  If they aren't dressed to handle water, they aren't dressed for the envoronment they are working in.

It's not about the clothes, you idiot. I high pressure water hose can knock you arse over tits. And if you're on deck, it could easily turn into an MOB, which is doubly dangerous if you have two vessels alongside. The water cannon are unnecessarily dangerous, even if Sea Sheppard are blocking them from whaling or refuelling, it doesn't justify endangering their crew.
 
2013-02-27 11:18:03 AM

Bad_Seed: liam76:
I see you've got your GED in International Maritime Law. Better call up the ICJ in the Hague and tell them that the case is settled, liam76 of Fark.com has made a ruling. They should be pleased to hear of it.

I can't get behind that.  Every action that the Japanese has taken has only been possible because Sea shepard is doing dangerous and illegal things.  If they aren't dressed to handle water, they aren't dressed for the envoronment they are working in.

It's not about the clothes, you idiot. I high pressure water hose can knock you arse over tits. And if you're on deck, it could easily turn into an MOB, which is doubly dangerous if you have two vessels alongside. The water cannon are unnecessarily dangerous, even if Sea Sheppard are blocking them from whaling or refuelling, it doesn't justify endangering their crew.


Do you know what else is dangerous, pulling your boat close enough to a giant ass ship that they can hit you with a water cannon.
 
2013-02-27 11:20:02 AM

Bad_Seed: liam76:
I see you've got your GED in International Maritime Law. Better call up the ICJ in the Hague and tell them that the case is settled, liam76 of Fark.com has made a ruling. They should be pleased to hear of it.


It is pretty clear that australia and 4 or 5 other countries can dictate what other countries do outside their territorial waters.

The IWC set up a no whaling zone and has never said that Japan "research" permit doesn't apply.

I think it is BS, but the fact is it is legal.

Bad_Seed: It's not about the clothes, you idiot. I high pressure water hose can knock you arse over tits. And if you're on deck, it could easily turn into an MOB, which is doubly dangerous if you have two vessels alongside. The water cannon are unnecessarily dangerous, even if Sea Sheppard are blocking them from whaling or refuelling, it doesn't justify endangering their crew


they shoudl be dressed to handel falling in if they are goign to be walking around anywhere where it is a possibiltiy or they aren't strapped in.

Once again the sea shepard chose to go there, they chose to get in the way of a bigger ship (against the law), they chose to lob stink bombs, etc.  it is stupid to get upset about the relatively tame response of water cannons to such actions.
 
2013-02-27 11:25:04 AM
The only answer is to just let them fight it out. Trial by combat. If sea Shepard can sink the Japanese fleet, it's because they broke the law and the whales are officially saved. If the Japanese take out Sea Shepard, well....bye.
 
2013-02-27 11:25:26 AM
"That's nice, remind me how you wedged that into the legal definition of "piracy"?"

Next month: "Federal Court found in Contempt of own ruling."


Keep in mind that in international waters under an international whaling ban it is completely legal to SHOOT EVERYBODY ON THE WHALING VESSELS DEAD AND SINK THEIR SHIPS... you apparently just cannot get close to them or commit misdemeanors against them while you do it..,
 
2013-02-27 11:30:26 AM
liam76:

But the research is a sham. It's clearly a commercial/nationalistic peener waving operation. The Japanese are bending, if not outright breaking the rules, but few people seem to complain about that.

I don't think you quite gasp what falling overboard in the middle of the ocean entails. Now, blocking somebody else's ship is one thing. Endangering somebody's life is another thing altogether, and the former does not justify the latter. But I've never seen people on Fark be able to understand that.

At the end of the day, Sea Sheppard are successful in at least disrupting and slowing down Japanese whaling and they are getting tons of support doing it. While you and me are sitting and home and providing armchair commentary. I'm not a fan of their tactics, but they do go out there and get shiat done. And for that they deserve a grudging respect.
 
2013-02-27 11:34:01 AM

prjindigo: "That's nice, remind me how you wedged that into the legal definition of "piracy"?"

Next month: "Federal Court found in Contempt of own ruling."


Keep in mind that in international waters under an international whaling ban it is completely legal to SHOOT EVERYBODY ON THE WHALING VESSELS DEAD AND SINK THEIR SHIPS... you apparently just cannot get close to them or commit misdemeanors against them while you do it..,


I was under the impression that its against the law to carry firearms in international waters. But you've obviously studied the law much more thourouhgly than I.

Unless there's another way to shoot them all dead that I'm not aware of.
 
2013-02-27 11:44:58 AM

ScouserDuck: prjindigo: "That's nice, remind me how you wedged that into the legal definition of "piracy"?"

Next month: "Federal Court found in Contempt of own ruling."


Keep in mind that in international waters under an international whaling ban it is completely legal to SHOOT EVERYBODY ON THE WHALING VESSELS DEAD AND SINK THEIR SHIPS... you apparently just cannot get close to them or commit misdemeanors against them while you do it..,

I was under the impression that its against the law to carry firearms in international waters. But you've obviously studied the law much more thourouhgly than I.

Unless there's another way to shoot them all dead that I'm not aware of.


It is not against the law to carry firearms in international waters. Private security firms now have anti-piracy teams on merchant ships in international waters regularly in dangerous areas.  The teams with automatic weapons are loaded on the merchant ship from a tender in international waters after the ship leaves port. The team and weapons are removed from the merchant ship and placed back on another tender before the ship goes into its destination port.

It is illegal in most countries to carry the weapons in national waters or to go into port with them on board.

BTW - the Japanese are not breaking any international laws by whaling for "research" purposes (while they certainly are bending the spirit of the law). This has already been established in multiple court rulings and committee meetings.
 
2013-02-27 11:45:02 AM

Bad_Seed: liam76:

But the research is a sham. It's clearly a commercial/nationalistic peener waving operation. The Japanese are bending, if not outright breaking the rules,


And? I am pretty sure my comment make it very clear that I agree with that.

liam76: "research"


liam76: I think it is BS, but the fact is it is legal



Bad_Seed: but few people seem to complain about that.


If you are doing something that is technically legal and I don't feel enough peopel are complaining, does that give me the right to assault you?


Bad_Seed: I don't think you quite gasp what falling overboard in the middle of the ocean entails. Now, blocking somebody else's ship is one thing. Endangering somebody's life is another thing altogether, and the former does not justify the latter.


I do grasp it, what you fail to grasp is that the blocking of a ship can cause poepl to fall overboard from ramming, that it can cause ships to sink, and for the third time the only way that sea shepard can be effected by hoses is if they break the law and interfere with the whaling ships. The fault rests entierly on their shoulders. Don't understand what you fail to understand about that.
 
2013-02-27 11:50:30 AM

Bad_Seed: But the research is a sham. It's clearly a commercial/nationalistic peener waving operation. The Japanese are bending, if not outright breaking the rules, but few people seem to complain about that.


If that's the case then the only way to bring the whalers to justice (if they've committed a crime) is in court.  We can't just allow any private citizen with the right money and desire to go out into international waters and wage war, destroy property by breaking ship props, and assault the crews of other ships.  If that were the case, what's to stop anyone anywhere from taking up arms against say a cruise ship just because they feel like it?  The whole thing is mental.

I agree with the Sea Shepherds in that I think what the Japanese are doing is a breach of the treaties that exist, and it's actually pretty shiatty do be doing that commercially.  I didn't however have the same opinion about their activities when they visited the faroe islands.  The whaling there was akin to the tradition of individuals that hunt in the United States.  It was not a huge commercial operation trying to feed an enormous population with an unsustainable food source, like the Japanese whaling was.
 
2013-02-27 11:51:06 AM

lewismarktwo: Well, if the Japanese aren't actually conduction research and instead are harvesting the whales for food (and they are) then this ruling is meaningless.


Sort of reminds me of that old looney toons cartoon where they chop down a tree, float it down a river, process a single tree into a single toothpick.

I suspect the Japanese are doing something similar with the whales.  They are "Researching" the umm bone marrow of a single specific rib.  And they are being environmentally friendly by not wasting all of the rest of the whale so they sell the meat to raise money to continue their research.
 
2013-02-27 12:08:26 PM

JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.


Nope.
 
2013-02-27 12:41:08 PM
In other news.  Everyone watching that whaling stopper (whatever the title is) show on animal planet have been laughing about it for years with the full knowledge that these guys are acting like pirates
 
2013-02-27 12:42:16 PM
In most cases:

Territotial waters extends out 12 miles - same as being on land, all laws of that nation/state apply
International waters begins at 12 miles
The Exclusive Economic Zone extends to 200 miles - state has control of resources, other rights
High Seas begins at 200 miles
 
2013-02-27 12:54:07 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.


The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines
 
2013-02-27 01:07:05 PM

cwolf20: In other news.  Everyone watching that whaling stopper (whatever the title is) show on animal planet have been laughing about it for years with the full knowledge that these guys are acting like pirates


Actually people watch Whale Wars to laugh at how hopelessly inept the Sea Shepherd crew is... they can't even perform simply tasks like launching a boat without some disaster happening.
 
2013-02-27 01:16:08 PM

johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines


As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.
 
2013-02-27 01:20:45 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.


I'd like to walk back my comment about under-age sex slaves.  That is part of the FBI's jurisdiction, human trafficking into the US.  However, there are still plenty of people you can sleep with for money while outside of the US, and the FBI won't care one bit.
 
2013-02-27 01:22:38 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.


I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.
 
2013-02-27 01:25:56 PM

Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


If only there was some way to look at something else on TV...hmmm.  A way to change to another subject...
dang!
 
2013-02-27 01:34:06 PM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


The Japanese love sea life.  Usually on a bed of rice with some soy sauce.
 
2013-02-27 01:56:41 PM

johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.

I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.




Traveling overseas to have sex who you could not have sex with in the USA is a crime. Regardless of local laws. The FBI will arrest you.
 
2013-02-27 02:35:37 PM
Bad_Seed:
/of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing.

This ignores the fact that in order for the Japanese to do that, Sea Shepard's ships have to be in range, and it's not like the Japanese are actively hunting them down.  In order for a "water cannon" to be effective, those ships have to be so close as to constitute a very dangerous situation.
 
2013-02-27 02:47:16 PM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


To be fair both land and sea tend to hate them and attempt to kill them via tsunami or earthquake or Godzilla. It's self defense in their eyes.
 
2013-02-27 02:51:47 PM

prjindigo: "That's nice, remind me how you wedged that into the legal definition of "piracy"?"

Next month: "Federal Court found in Contempt of own ruling."


Keep in mind that in international waters under an international whaling ban it is completely legal to SHOOT EVERYBODY ON THE WHALING VESSELS DEAD AND SINK THEIR SHIPS... you apparently just cannot get close to them or commit misdemeanors against them while you do it..,


Cite that.  Now.

Because attacking a ship flagged to a neutral nation in international waters is generally known as "an Act of War".  I'd like to see actual law that says you can subvert that.
 
2013-02-27 02:53:20 PM

dj1s: Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv

If only there was some way to look at something else on TV...hmmm.  A way to change to another subject...
dang!


An episode of Whale Wars where they hang the Sea Shepherd pirates from the yardarm would get huge TV ratings. We should arrange it now.
 
2013-02-27 03:01:20 PM
I wonder how good whale bacon tastes? If a hippy salts the meat with their tears will it taste better?
 
2013-02-27 03:03:44 PM

gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]


Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/
 
2013-02-27 03:35:52 PM
wa3.cdn.3news.co.nz
Barney Ross: What the hell's he doing?
Lee Christmas: Hanging a pirate.
Barney Ross: Don't be ridiculous. Gunner! What are you doing?
Gunnar Jensen: Hanging a pirate!
Toll Road: That's seriously demented.
Yin Yang: This is no good.
 
2013-02-27 03:38:49 PM

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.

Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.


So what, Hitler had a few doctors too. Yea sorta a stretch, these fools to Hitler but you get it. And I am amazed (not really) that you didn't suggest that those videos are one-sided. Care to link to the videos the Japanese have? No? Hmm.... wonder why?

They're still a group of idiots who think they're "helping" and they're not. Now they're pirates and I hope they're sunk and all crew are lost so these idiots never again set foot on a boat or ship.
 
2013-02-27 03:45:39 PM

johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.

I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.


They'll also deny you clearance if you do something legal overseas but is illegal in the U.S.
 
2013-02-27 04:01:08 PM

VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.


1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.
 
2013-02-27 04:03:26 PM

bikkurikun: PunGent: bikkurikun:

Marine biologists are still trying to figure out the effects of mass whaling from the LAST century, so I think a teensy bit of caution is in order...since, you know, the ocean is kind of important to those of us who breathe oxygen...

Dilemma of the Commons ftl.

There are about half a million Minke Whales. Catching a few hundreds every year will not do any real harm to the population.


Probably not...but we know VERY little about the OVERALL impact of whaling IN GENERAL on the ocean ecosystem.
That's my concern.

We haven't even finished the physical mapping of the ocean floor, or gross physical identification of common species, let alone get an idea of system complexity.  And much of our research is done from a naval warfare point...thermoclines for ASW work, that kind of thing.

If you're saying hunting one species can have absolutely no unpredictable side effects whatsoever on any other species...you're wrong.
 
2013-02-27 04:03:48 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.

I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.

Traveling overseas to have sex who you could not have sex with in the USA is a crime. Regardless of local laws. The FBI will arrest you.


Which pretty much rules out children under 16, I get it.  I don't condone such behavior, and would never participate in it.
 
2013-02-27 04:05:21 PM

dittybopper: PunGent: Draq: PunGent: Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?

Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3359.htm I'm sure there are better sources, but white tail deer are really a success story for conservation efforts. That's why we've still got deer quotas.

Ah, OK, just Indiana, not nationwide.   Thanks for the link.

/Wishes our ancestors had saved us some carrier pigeons...might've been tasty.
//favors sustainable hunting and fishing

It was nation-wide:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/03pubs/v er c033.pdf

Look at this graph from that paper:

[i51.tinypic.com image 695x522]

That should say it all.


Very interesting, thanks.

SERIOUS population crash there, we were lucky to save them.

/tasty, tasty venison
 
2013-02-27 04:06:31 PM

Iplaybass: 1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.


In summary, "I hate whatever nation I think your from, have a hard on for the Japanese and employ the shiattiest excuse in the world for bad behavior: 'waaaah but UUUUU.'"

Thanks for being an idiot!
 
2013-02-27 04:12:02 PM

Iplaybass: VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.

1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.


Here's the difference. We commercially fish yes. They commercially fish AND kill whales. We have rules to abide while operating commercial fishing operations.

Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

I'm with the dude above, 2/10 only because you got a response even if it was more for the benefit of those that don't actually understand the problem.

/Love how the assholes whine about their Senkaku Islands and expect people to recognize their claim yet they refuse to respect other nation's rights.
//Want to be treated like adults then start participating like adults.
 
2013-02-27 04:17:01 PM

VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.

In summary, "I hate whatever nation I think your from, have a hard on for the Japanese and employ the shiattiest excuse in the world for bad behavior: 'waaaah but UUUUU.'"

Thanks for being an idiot!


I didn't think you had much of an argument. Now I know.
 
2013-02-27 04:21:04 PM

Iplaybass: 3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.


Japan can operate as a soveriegn entity except when operating in another nations exclusive economic zone.
though the territorial legality of the AWS is in question due to Antarctic Treaty concerns
I am pretty sure I am responding to a troll since your "self-righteous" rant was so ironic, but just in case.
 
2013-02-27 04:27:25 PM

ReverendJynxed: Iplaybass: VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.

1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.

Here's the difference. We commercially fish yes. They commercially fish AND kill whales. We have rules to abide while operating commercial fishing operations.

Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

I'm with the dude above, 2/10 only because you got a response even if it was more for the benefit of those that don't actually understand the ...


"We're allowed to keep hunting anything we like because we've set our own arbitrary guidelines it's other people who have to stop doing what we don't want them to do". Right.... Like I said, there are things you could do if you actually cared about the "biomass" of the ocean as a whole. But people like you only care to the extent that it requires some other country to do something about it. It's a weak argument but in line with what I expected from someone who thinks calling "troll!1l1l1l1" constitutes making a valid point.

Also, stop trying to be outraged on Australia's behalf. If you were truly incensed by a country "invading a sovereign nation to to steal their 'resources' ", you'd spend more time actively opposing the action of your own government before criticising others for an incident that pales in comparison.
 
2013-02-27 04:30:48 PM

Uncle Tractor: Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?

Do you hate the food on your plate?


They break every international law there is and not just because they're starving. But when they are hungry, they cut sharks' fins off and throw them back in the water to bleed to death. They deserve everything Godzilla gave them.
 
2013-02-27 04:31:33 PM

PunGent: Very interesting, thanks.

SERIOUS population crash there, we were lucky to save them.

/tasty, tasty venison


The estimate is that the population dropped from 25 to 30 million across the continent to just 500,000.
 
2013-02-27 04:39:58 PM

ReverendJynxed: gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]

Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/


Please cite what exact international maritime law they are breaking by section in the IMO regulatory framework? They are NOT breaking any international maritime law.

The NOAA link you provide only references the U.S. National Marine Sanctuaries Act which only covers U.S. national waters - nothing to do with the Antarctic.

Any type of agreement between countries about 'whale sanctuaries' has nothing to do with International Maritime Law.

I dislike the Japanese using the 'research exception' to whaling agreements between countries to perform commerical whaling but it is a huge stretch to sumise that this somehow violates International Maritime Law.
 
2013-02-27 05:40:51 PM

ReverendJynxed: gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]

Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/


- The Japanese hunting of whales for research purposes, even though it is a veil, in the whale sanctuary is perfectly legal and allowed under the treaty. They do not break any law or any treaty.
- The seperate "Australian Whale Sanctuary" in the antarctic in fact doesn't  exist as far as most of the world is concerned because Australia's jurisdiction over that area is disputed by all but five countries.

Really, how difficult is this to understand. The simple fact that you do not like it, does not magically make it illegal. What they do is in perfect accordance with all treaties and international laws. What Sea Shepherd does however, endangering, hampering and trying to board without consent, is therefore very much illegal.
 
2013-02-27 07:25:44 PM

ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."


It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.
 
2013-02-27 07:34:46 PM

dittybopper: Bad_Seed:
/of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing.

This ignores the fact that in order for the Japanese to do that, Sea Shepard's ships have to be in range, and it's not like the Japanese are actively hunting them down.  In order for a "water cannon" to be effective, those ships have to be so close as to constitute a very dangerous situation.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The Japanese shouldn't really be getting that close. It's not like they have to kill those whales. They should just not kill them and go home.
 
2013-02-27 07:53:56 PM
liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.


International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.
 
2013-02-27 08:35:46 PM

Oldiron_79: liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.

International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.


The exclusive economic zone ends when it reaches Antarctic water.
 
2013-02-27 08:48:41 PM

ADHD Librarian: insertsnarkyusername: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?

They are doing it in Australian waters, which Australia has no control over. Which may sound odd, but it is because of a loophole in the Antarctic treaty. As part of the treaty, all of the nations with territorial claims agreed to forgo their claims of exclusivity to their waters in exchange for an agreement which prevented mining taking place in the Antarctic. So, if Australia tells Japan to bugger off and go home, the end result is that the treaty falls over and suddenly the US could start covering their Antarctic claims with oil wells (or something like that).
Australia is currently taking this issue to some international court of justice (or something like that) but that doesn't save any whales this year, while the self-righteous wankers on the boats are actually making a difference (which kind of excuses the wankeryness). The question of what (if any) force Australia can use and who (if anyone) can enforce parts of the treaty which the Japanese keep ignoring (like refuelling at sea within the protected zones) is a fun one. But I think that it would be much better in he long term if a government (Australia) sent navel or customs vessels to monitor this 'scientific' research, rather than rely on activists (and if we start defining activists as pirates or terrorists I am liable to start signing up for conspiracy theory websites about the new world order).


Wow, a helpful and coherent response on fark, thank you very much for clearing that up for me.
 
2013-02-27 09:46:45 PM

liam76: Oldiron_79: liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.

International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.

The exclusive economic zone ends when it reaches Antarctic water.


Or more specifically beyond 60 degrees south (60s). The Antarctic treaty supersedes the EEZ in question. and AU\NZ knows this which is why they don't send in ships to get involved where whaling is concerned. It's a paper tiger not recognized by most nations and they don't want to open that can of worms because of the far reaching repercussions of nullifying that treaty. Unless of course you want to see drilling for oil and gas in the Southern Ocean instead, which is a distinct possibility if the treaty is broken.
 
2013-02-28 02:25:34 AM

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

So very, very -THIS-

I think I only despise that group because they have such great funding and equipment and support, and only use it to fark around in rubber boats and play to cameras instead of just sinking the bastards. Not like anyone would care, the Japanese are violating so many laws, both international and those of the sovereign areas they are operating in.

 I have been to Australia and NZ, and seen what happens when the Sea Shepard ships come in (celebration), and the Japanese ships come in (seizure under various pretenses). I don't think much investigation would be done if someone just straight up torpedoed or limpet mined that factory ship.
 
2013-02-28 02:28:35 AM

accelerus: If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.


at what point did you miss the violation of a raft of laws, including violating court injunctions from the countries whose waters they are doing it in?
 
2013-02-28 02:47:26 AM

CliChe Guevara: phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

So very, very -THIS-

I think I only despise that group because they have such great funding and equipment and support, and only use it to fark around in rubber boats and play to cameras instead of just sinking the bastards. Not like anyone would care, the Japanese are violating so many laws, both international and those of the sovereign areas they are operating in.

 I have been to Australia and NZ, and seen what happens when the Sea Shepard ships come in (celebration), and the Japanese ships come in (seizure under various pretenses). I don't think much investigation would be done if someone just straight up torpedoed or limpet mined that factory ship.


The only people who "celebrate" the Sea Shepherd arrival are the left wing Greenpeace members. Nobody else here gives a toss. In fact, I'd be willing to bet more people feel ill-will toward the Sea Shepherd than feel empathy or solidarity towards it.
 
2013-02-28 04:08:32 AM

Draq: Yeah that's a lovely cop out isn't it, blaming people who are indirectly harming recovery efforts through honestly very little fault of their own given the technologies most people have access to and the low level of choice you actually have in what your lifestyle requires.


What, you whale-worshipers don't have access to bicycles? You don't have access to re-usable shopping bags? You can't not fill your homes with junk you don't need?

No, I think I'm going to keep putting a good amount of blame on the people who are deliberately going out and killing endangered species.

...And I'll keep on pointing out that you're a hypocrite.

The real danger whales face is from pollution. Whaling is irrelevant by comparison, but by all means, keep on telling  other people to change. You hypocrite.
 
2013-02-28 04:32:28 AM

Thunderpipes: All commercial ships should mount at least four 50 caliber machine guns on them to deter piracy.

At the first biological weapon hurled (and yes, the anti-whaling pussies do this), open fire. Problem goes away within a month.


You don't need machine guns to make SS go away; the norwegian coast guard tossed a couple of depth charges at one of their tubs, and the fat fark ran crying all the way back to Amsterdam. He hasn't been near Norway since. (we're talking mid-90s here)

Tried to find a link to this, but all google got me was 10000 pages of sea shepherd BS. Those guys must spend a lot of time at the keyboard. Sheesh.
 
2013-02-28 05:40:27 AM

Seth'n'Spectrum: That definition of piracy feels like a stretch.


Dont these morons fly a friggen pirate flag for god sake?  How much of a stretch does it have to be?

If you fly under a pirate flag, you should be killed as a pirate.  Pirate profiling is okay, cause its based on self identification.
 
2013-02-28 10:39:26 AM
I'm seriously against the japanese rape of the oceans
absolutely repulsive as a cultural drive

but I farking hate these anti whaling farktards
Serving no purpose other than self aggrandizing
whatever sympathy I may have had at one point is absolutely ruined.
 
2013-02-28 12:20:06 PM

Deathfrogg: The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.


Actually, it is the duty of the smaller vessel to avoid the larger one. The larger ship is not as capable of stopping or manuvering.

/has a boating license.
//to putter around a lake in a 5hp dinghy
 
2013-02-28 12:58:09 PM

fluffy2097: Deathfrogg: The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.

Actually, it is the duty of the smaller vessel to avoid the larger one. The larger ship is not as capable of stopping or manuvering.

/has a boating license.
//to putter around a lake in a 5hp dinghy



this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking,  and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.
 
2013-02-28 01:04:00 PM
You mean encumbered right?
 
2013-02-28 01:37:51 PM

fluffy2097: You mean encumbered right?


No.  I meant constrained by her draft.  Everything else applies though, right?
 
2013-02-28 08:07:36 PM

johnny_vegas: this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking, and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.


Not true. In the most recent incident that I've seen on video the two whaling ships were side by side in an underway replenishment configuration. They are by definition limited in course and speed changes. The Sea Shepherds intent was to disrupt that evolution by getting in the middle and make them break off the unrep early. They knew or should have known that they were going to be causing a collision situation as it's a part of the coursework to understand what happens when two or more ships are close aboard and parallel to each other (if you are not aware of the physics involved it means that they tend to get sucked in to each other and the closer they are the greater the suction). It's a very dangerous situation even on a good day

Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.

There are also other non-inland situations where a ships course and speed are encumbered such as fishing trawlers. Regardless of that every experienced mariner knows that a really big ship can't stop on a dime (the general assumption for an average cargo ship is at least 4k yards from transit speed to stopped in an emergency stop situation and those ships generally speaking loathe to slow down, much less stop) and course changes are similarly limited in that they aren't going to result in all that rapid of a bearing change.

The only smaller ships that have the right of way over larger ships are the ones under power by sail or that have lost steerage due to a mechanical failure (and are displaying the proper makings as such). Even then the sailing craft usually give up their right of way whenever possible because lets face it, steel will always win over wood, fiberglass or thin aluminum.

All of this is common knowledge and basic rule of thumb type stuff that everyone with a masters license knows quite well. The responsible ones will go out of their way to avoid such situations from becoming a problem by anticipating other ships movements miles before they might become an issue and making minor course and speed corrections early. The irresponsible ones apparently go work for Sea Shepherds.
 
2013-02-28 10:00:18 PM

Radioactive Ass: Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.


If you think anyone on the Sea Shepherd vessels has any sort of license or training, you must have never seen the show. They are clueless as to any sort of maritime laws or conventions. I remember at one point they had a "First Mate" who was incapable of reading a compass and a "Communications Officer" whose expertise was in web design.
 
2013-02-28 10:17:09 PM

StRalphTheLiar: Radioactive Ass: Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.

If you think anyone on the Sea Shepherd vessels has any sort of license or training, you must have never seen the show. They are clueless as to any sort of maritime laws or conventions. I remember at one point they had a "First Mate" who was incapable of reading a compass and a "Communications Officer" whose expertise was in web design.


By law every registered merchant ship has to have someone aboard with a masters license. The rest of the crew operates under his\her supervision and is why the Captains of all ships are considered responsible for everything that happens on his ship (traditionally the Captain is the one with the license but it's not a hard and fast rule, it's just that nobody with any intelligence is going to risk their careers by putting their license on the line without having an absolute final say in what is being done aboard ship). They are supposed to train the crew (or at least certify that they are competent through previous training and experience). I did watch the show and for at least one season they had an ex-USN navigation officer (or at least that was the claim being made) and from what I saw I believed it, she tried to set up some training as it should have been done properly and was shut down by the first mate because it was too hard or something stupid like that.

I could go on and on railing against what I've seen on that show and just how wrong they did just about everything but I don't feel like writing a book right now...
 
2013-03-01 10:03:50 AM

Radioactive Ass: johnny_vegas: this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking, and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.

Not true.


Yes true. The specific instance we were discussing is Constrained by draft which is inland only. Restricted in ability to maneuver (for various reasons), fishing, submarine on the surface, sailboat, etc apply in international waters also. I agree with everything else you said.

The Venturi effect is the force you are talking about between ships and you can see it in action in some of the videos of those knuckleheads getting between the ships.
 
2013-03-01 10:14:08 AM

johnny_vegas: Yes true. The specific instance we were discussing is Constrained by draft which is inland only. Restricted in ability to maneuver (for various reasons), fishing, submarine on the surface, sailboat, etc apply in international waters also. I agree with everything else you said.


My bad then. I was reading it as it being claimed that only inland waters have restricted movement situations, which, as you are apparently aware, is not true.
 
2013-03-01 10:31:51 AM

Radioactive Ass: johnny_vegas: Yes true. The specific instance we were discussing is Constrained by draft which is inland only. Restricted in ability to maneuver (for various reasons), fishing, submarine on the surface, sailboat, etc apply in international waters also. I agree with everything else you said.

My bad then. I was reading it as it being claimed that only inland waters have restricted movement situations, which, as you are apparently aware, is not true.



yeah and I screwed up the terminology originally which didn't help

spent lots of years at sea and conducted lots of refuelings
 
2013-03-01 01:00:39 PM
natas6.0: I'm seriously against the japanese rape of the oceans
absolutely repulsive as a cultural drive

but I farking hate these anti whaling farktards
Serving no purpose other than self aggrandizing
whatever sympathy I may have had at one point is absolutely ruined.


Yeah I watched like maybe 1-2 episodes of it after the SP episode about them, and about all I can say is Southpark Nailed it.
 
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