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(USA Today)   The guys who harass the Japanese whalers are officially pirates, says a federal court   (usatoday.com) divider line 299
    More: Obvious, Japanese, sea shepherd, Animal Planet, Australian courts, Japanese whalers, Whale Wars, pirates  
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8969 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Feb 2013 at 12:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-27 01:25:56 PM

Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv


If only there was some way to look at something else on TV...hmmm.  A way to change to another subject...
dang!
 
2013-02-27 01:34:06 PM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


The Japanese love sea life.  Usually on a bed of rice with some soy sauce.
 
2013-02-27 01:56:41 PM

johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.

I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.




Traveling overseas to have sex who you could not have sex with in the USA is a crime. Regardless of local laws. The FBI will arrest you.
 
2013-02-27 02:35:37 PM
Bad_Seed:
/of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing.

This ignores the fact that in order for the Japanese to do that, Sea Shepard's ships have to be in range, and it's not like the Japanese are actively hunting them down.  In order for a "water cannon" to be effective, those ships have to be so close as to constitute a very dangerous situation.
 
2013-02-27 02:47:16 PM

Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?


To be fair both land and sea tend to hate them and attempt to kill them via tsunami or earthquake or Godzilla. It's self defense in their eyes.
 
2013-02-27 02:51:47 PM

prjindigo: "That's nice, remind me how you wedged that into the legal definition of "piracy"?"

Next month: "Federal Court found in Contempt of own ruling."


Keep in mind that in international waters under an international whaling ban it is completely legal to SHOOT EVERYBODY ON THE WHALING VESSELS DEAD AND SINK THEIR SHIPS... you apparently just cannot get close to them or commit misdemeanors against them while you do it..,


Cite that.  Now.

Because attacking a ship flagged to a neutral nation in international waters is generally known as "an Act of War".  I'd like to see actual law that says you can subvert that.
 
2013-02-27 02:53:20 PM

dj1s: Oldiron_79: Well under international maritime law you can hang pirates from the yardarm. Ill gladly buy the rope if it gets those annoying douches off the tv

If only there was some way to look at something else on TV...hmmm.  A way to change to another subject...
dang!


An episode of Whale Wars where they hang the Sea Shepherd pirates from the yardarm would get huge TV ratings. We should arrange it now.
 
2013-02-27 03:01:20 PM
I wonder how good whale bacon tastes? If a hippy salts the meat with their tears will it taste better?
 
2013-02-27 03:03:44 PM

gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]


Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/
 
2013-02-27 03:35:52 PM
wa3.cdn.3news.co.nz
Barney Ross: What the hell's he doing?
Lee Christmas: Hanging a pirate.
Barney Ross: Don't be ridiculous. Gunner! What are you doing?
Gunnar Jensen: Hanging a pirate!
Toll Road: That's seriously demented.
Yin Yang: This is no good.
 
2013-02-27 03:38:49 PM

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: The people on here who think the Japanese are ramming the Sea Sheperd ship are clueless. What the pirates are doing is quickly pulling in front of a ship that needs a great distance to stop. No more ramming then if u cut off a semi on the interstate.

Go to YouTube and watch the vids. The Nishin Maru is deliberately ramming the Sea Shepard ships from behind. The crew of the Nishin Maru is using flash-bang grenades within feet of a tanker. They've even crushed the life raft escape slides on the tanker itself. The Bob Barker now has several large cracks opened up in the superstucture so you can literally see through to the engine room from the upper deck. All of its comm masts have been crushed by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese whalers are the ones breaking maritime laws here, and laws against poaching whales.

The Sea Shepard people are NOT untrained. They have all the necessary maritime certifications. Many are US and Australian Navy veterans, and have more experience than any National Navy sailor fresh out of basic. Most of the crew have Bachelors or masters degrees in such things as maritime law, oceanography or marine biology.

There are several Ph.Ds on board the Bob Barker and the other Sea Shepard ships.


So what, Hitler had a few doctors too. Yea sorta a stretch, these fools to Hitler but you get it. And I am amazed (not really) that you didn't suggest that those videos are one-sided. Care to link to the videos the Japanese have? No? Hmm.... wonder why?

They're still a group of idiots who think they're "helping" and they're not. Now they're pirates and I hope they're sunk and all crew are lost so these idiots never again set foot on a boat or ship.
 
2013-02-27 03:45:39 PM

johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.

I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.


They'll also deny you clearance if you do something legal overseas but is illegal in the U.S.
 
2013-02-27 04:01:08 PM

VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.


1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.
 
2013-02-27 04:03:26 PM

bikkurikun: PunGent: bikkurikun:

Marine biologists are still trying to figure out the effects of mass whaling from the LAST century, so I think a teensy bit of caution is in order...since, you know, the ocean is kind of important to those of us who breathe oxygen...

Dilemma of the Commons ftl.

There are about half a million Minke Whales. Catching a few hundreds every year will not do any real harm to the population.


Probably not...but we know VERY little about the OVERALL impact of whaling IN GENERAL on the ocean ecosystem.
That's my concern.

We haven't even finished the physical mapping of the ocean floor, or gross physical identification of common species, let alone get an idea of system complexity.  And much of our research is done from a naval warfare point...thermoclines for ASW work, that kind of thing.

If you're saying hunting one species can have absolutely no unpredictable side effects whatsoever on any other species...you're wrong.
 
2013-02-27 04:03:48 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: johnny_vegas: Kraftwerk Orange: JDJoeE: jtown: While I think that group exploits young people, putting them in absurdly dangerous situations with little or no training, I don't see what a United States court has to say about it.  They're not using US-flagged ships and they're not doing these things in US waters or targeting US-flagged ships.  If Japan has a problem, let Japan deal with it.  If Australia has a problem, let Australia take care of it.  If one of their ship's flag nations has a problem, let them deal with it.  None of those countries needs the US to step in.

They're US citizens.  As a US citizen you are subject to US law regardless of whether you're in Tulsa, OK, Outer Mongolia, or visiting Saturn.

Nope.

The IRS would like a word with you
So would the FBI when you come back from boning under-age sex slaves in Finland or the Philippines

As a US Citizen, you have to file an annual tax return with the IRS.  Sure.
Under-age sex slaves - wherever - makes you a perv., but I really doubt the FBI is all that interested.

There's lot of US laws that US citizens break when in foreign countries, because those specific actions aren't illegal there.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam, driving high-speed in Germany, drinking raw milk and eating unpasteurized foods...

Come on, live a little.  Part of the fun of a foreign vacation is doing things that would get you arrested back home.

I disagree with nothing you said, the bottom-line is to understand, obey and respect the law of the country your are visiting or living in...it was just your response previously that I wanted to address because there are cases where the US will hold you accountable...IRS, sex trade, and drug traficking  are 3.

Traveling overseas to have sex who you could not have sex with in the USA is a crime. Regardless of local laws. The FBI will arrest you.


Which pretty much rules out children under 16, I get it.  I don't condone such behavior, and would never participate in it.
 
2013-02-27 04:05:21 PM

dittybopper: PunGent: Draq: PunGent: Draq: bakarocket: Slartibartfaster: ThunderPelvis: There are plenty of Minke whales left, too.

Are you seriously comparing the wild population on Minke to farmed pigs ?
Intellectual honesty is not something you are familiar with ?

Okay, let's compare them to deer.

That better?

Yes much better. You're of course aware of the period in the 1920s where deer nearly went extinct and deer hunting was banned nationwide, right?

Really?  Google's giving me nada...got a link?

Sounds interesting.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3359.htm I'm sure there are better sources, but white tail deer are really a success story for conservation efforts. That's why we've still got deer quotas.

Ah, OK, just Indiana, not nationwide.   Thanks for the link.

/Wishes our ancestors had saved us some carrier pigeons...might've been tasty.
//favors sustainable hunting and fishing

It was nation-wide:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/03pubs/v er c033.pdf

Look at this graph from that paper:

[i51.tinypic.com image 695x522]

That should say it all.


Very interesting, thanks.

SERIOUS population crash there, we were lucky to save them.

/tasty, tasty venison
 
2013-02-27 04:06:31 PM

Iplaybass: 1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.


In summary, "I hate whatever nation I think your from, have a hard on for the Japanese and employ the shiattiest excuse in the world for bad behavior: 'waaaah but UUUUU.'"

Thanks for being an idiot!
 
2013-02-27 04:12:02 PM

Iplaybass: VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.

1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.


Here's the difference. We commercially fish yes. They commercially fish AND kill whales. We have rules to abide while operating commercial fishing operations.

Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

I'm with the dude above, 2/10 only because you got a response even if it was more for the benefit of those that don't actually understand the problem.

/Love how the assholes whine about their Senkaku Islands and expect people to recognize their claim yet they refuse to respect other nation's rights.
//Want to be treated like adults then start participating like adults.
 
2013-02-27 04:17:01 PM

VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.

In summary, "I hate whatever nation I think your from, have a hard on for the Japanese and employ the shiattiest excuse in the world for bad behavior: 'waaaah but UUUUU.'"

Thanks for being an idiot!


I didn't think you had much of an argument. Now I know.
 
2013-02-27 04:21:04 PM

Iplaybass: 3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.


Japan can operate as a soveriegn entity except when operating in another nations exclusive economic zone.
though the territorial legality of the AWS is in question due to Antarctic Treaty concerns
I am pretty sure I am responding to a troll since your "self-righteous" rant was so ironic, but just in case.
 
2013-02-27 04:27:25 PM

ReverendJynxed: Iplaybass: VendorXeno: Iplaybass: 1. The Japanese hunt whales that are not even close to being endangered - such as Minke.

2. Whale tastes delicious.

3. It's nobody else goddam business what the Japanese hunt.

1: First off, no, they don't limit themselves this way. Secondly, ocean biomass is down over 70% in the last century. That means that we've wiped out literally more than 70% of everything that lives there, and its reproductive potential. Individual endangered species are no longer the issue.

2: Go eat some bacon.

3: How did you come to the conclusion that it's no one else's business what a nation slaughters in international waters when we've already removed 70+% of the overall potential biomass? Seriously, how could you possibly have reached a conclusion that moronic?

I mean, are you a troll? Almost certainly, but this just shows what's wrong with trolls. What a pathetic manner of behavior. What a useless way to devote yourself.

1. If you have a problem with the whole biomass, get your shiatty government to ban commercial fishing entirely and stop blaming the Japanese. Their whaling is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the commercial fishing endeavours of other nations, like yours.

2. Bacon is garbage.

3. Easy - Japan is a sovereign entity and has the right to operate as such. Similar to your shiathole country, except that the Japanese do so without invading other sovereign entities under the guise of "bringing democracy" and "freedom" and generally pissing off the rest of the planet by acting like self-righteous assholes.

Here's the difference. We commercially fish yes. They commercially fish AND kill whales. We have rules to abide while operating commercial fishing operations.

Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

I'm with the dude above, 2/10 only because you got a response even if it was more for the benefit of those that don't actually understand the ...


"We're allowed to keep hunting anything we like because we've set our own arbitrary guidelines it's other people who have to stop doing what we don't want them to do". Right.... Like I said, there are things you could do if you actually cared about the "biomass" of the ocean as a whole. But people like you only care to the extent that it requires some other country to do something about it. It's a weak argument but in line with what I expected from someone who thinks calling "troll!1l1l1l1" constitutes making a valid point.

Also, stop trying to be outraged on Australia's behalf. If you were truly incensed by a country "invading a sovereign nation to to steal their 'resources' ", you'd spend more time actively opposing the action of your own government before criticising others for an incident that pales in comparison.
 
2013-02-27 04:30:48 PM

Uncle Tractor: Mugato: Why do the Japanese hate all manner of sea life so much?

Do you hate the food on your plate?


They break every international law there is and not just because they're starving. But when they are hungry, they cut sharks' fins off and throw them back in the water to bleed to death. They deserve everything Godzilla gave them.
 
2013-02-27 04:31:33 PM

PunGent: Very interesting, thanks.

SERIOUS population crash there, we were lucky to save them.

/tasty, tasty venison


The estimate is that the population dropped from 25 to 30 million across the continent to just 500,000.
 
2013-02-27 04:39:58 PM

ReverendJynxed: gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]

Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/


Please cite what exact international maritime law they are breaking by section in the IMO regulatory framework? They are NOT breaking any international maritime law.

The NOAA link you provide only references the U.S. National Marine Sanctuaries Act which only covers U.S. national waters - nothing to do with the Antarctic.

Any type of agreement between countries about 'whale sanctuaries' has nothing to do with International Maritime Law.

I dislike the Japanese using the 'research exception' to whaling agreements between countries to perform commerical whaling but it is a huge stretch to sumise that this somehow violates International Maritime Law.
 
2013-02-27 05:40:51 PM

ReverendJynxed: gblive: Girion47: DerpHerder: I like all the people saying they got rammed from behind.

Anyways if you cross my ships course and damage my ships propulsion over and over again you better expect me to fight back. These people purposely put themselves (young volunteers not the leaders) in harmsway. They have repeatedly unlawfully board (piracy) a ship flying the flag of Japan a violation of international law. Please tell me how pulling a ship into the course of another and not giving way is the fault of the ship maintaining course? You were attempting to alter the ships course and got hit. Its like someone slamming on the brakes in an insurance scam. Seems like pirates like piracy.

Well the ship they're harassing is breaking international maritime law

[citation needed]

Do you really need a citation when you can look up the whale sanctuary for yourself and understand the hunting and butchering of whales in said sanctuary is a no-no? A quick Google will show you that such hunting is illegal yet they paint "research" on the side of the ship and go back to butchering for market. Japan has disagreed with the sanctuary from day one and break the conventions willingly. They further claim the sanctuary is illegal... (disregarding that even if the world doesn't get a say in the creation of this joint sanctuary, it is Aussie territorial water and they DO have a say.) The problem is our governments that agreed to this aren't doing their jobs in making sure this crap stops.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/about/legislation/


- The Japanese hunting of whales for research purposes, even though it is a veil, in the whale sanctuary is perfectly legal and allowed under the treaty. They do not break any law or any treaty.
- The seperate "Australian Whale Sanctuary" in the antarctic in fact doesn't  exist as far as most of the world is concerned because Australia's jurisdiction over that area is disputed by all but five countries.

Really, how difficult is this to understand. The simple fact that you do not like it, does not magically make it illegal. What they do is in perfect accordance with all treaties and international laws. What Sea Shepherd does however, endangering, hampering and trying to board without consent, is therefore very much illegal.
 
2013-02-27 07:25:44 PM

ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."


It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.
 
2013-02-27 07:34:46 PM

dittybopper: Bad_Seed:
/of course, the Japanese aren't saints either. Blasting somebody's deck with water cannon on the middle of the Southern Ocean is dangerous. At least a dangerous as anything Sea Sheppard are doing.

This ignores the fact that in order for the Japanese to do that, Sea Shepard's ships have to be in range, and it's not like the Japanese are actively hunting them down.  In order for a "water cannon" to be effective, those ships have to be so close as to constitute a very dangerous situation.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The Japanese shouldn't really be getting that close. It's not like they have to kill those whales. They should just not kill them and go home.
 
2013-02-27 07:53:56 PM
liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.


International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.
 
2013-02-27 08:35:46 PM

Oldiron_79: liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.

International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.


The exclusive economic zone ends when it reaches Antarctic water.
 
2013-02-27 08:48:41 PM

ADHD Librarian: insertsnarkyusername: Deathfrogg: Pretty strange, considering the fact that the Japanese are literally poaching in a protected area. Australia has banned whaling and fueling at sea in that whole zone and the Japanese factory processing ship has repeatedly rammed the Sea Shepard ships from behind and then left the scene.

The Japanese are the ones breaking multiple international laws here.

Aren't they doing that in international waters that Australia has no control over?

They are doing it in Australian waters, which Australia has no control over. Which may sound odd, but it is because of a loophole in the Antarctic treaty. As part of the treaty, all of the nations with territorial claims agreed to forgo their claims of exclusivity to their waters in exchange for an agreement which prevented mining taking place in the Antarctic. So, if Australia tells Japan to bugger off and go home, the end result is that the treaty falls over and suddenly the US could start covering their Antarctic claims with oil wells (or something like that).
Australia is currently taking this issue to some international court of justice (or something like that) but that doesn't save any whales this year, while the self-righteous wankers on the boats are actually making a difference (which kind of excuses the wankeryness). The question of what (if any) force Australia can use and who (if anyone) can enforce parts of the treaty which the Japanese keep ignoring (like refuelling at sea within the protected zones) is a fun one. But I think that it would be much better in he long term if a government (Australia) sent navel or customs vessels to monitor this 'scientific' research, rather than rely on activists (and if we start defining activists as pirates or terrorists I am liable to start signing up for conspiracy theory websites about the new world order).


Wow, a helpful and coherent response on fark, thank you very much for clearing that up for me.
 
2013-02-27 09:46:45 PM

liam76: Oldiron_79: liam76: ReverendJynxed: Also, the sanctuary is in Aussie waters which means they are invading a sovereign nation to steal their "resources."

It is in Aussie waters as recognized by Australia, and no other international body or treaty hat Japan is  a party to.

International Maritime law says you have 12 miles of Territorial water and 200 miles of Exclusive Economic zone.

The exclusive economic zone ends when it reaches Antarctic water.


Or more specifically beyond 60 degrees south (60s). The Antarctic treaty supersedes the EEZ in question. and AU\NZ knows this which is why they don't send in ships to get involved where whaling is concerned. It's a paper tiger not recognized by most nations and they don't want to open that can of worms because of the far reaching repercussions of nullifying that treaty. Unless of course you want to see drilling for oil and gas in the Southern Ocean instead, which is a distinct possibility if the treaty is broken.
 
2013-02-28 02:25:34 AM

phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

So very, very -THIS-

I think I only despise that group because they have such great funding and equipment and support, and only use it to fark around in rubber boats and play to cameras instead of just sinking the bastards. Not like anyone would care, the Japanese are violating so many laws, both international and those of the sovereign areas they are operating in.

 I have been to Australia and NZ, and seen what happens when the Sea Shepard ships come in (celebration), and the Japanese ships come in (seizure under various pretenses). I don't think much investigation would be done if someone just straight up torpedoed or limpet mined that factory ship.
 
2013-02-28 02:28:35 AM

accelerus: If they are staying within their quotas and conforming to all international laws on the subject, leave them the fark alone.


at what point did you miss the violation of a raft of laws, including violating court injunctions from the countries whose waters they are doing it in?
 
2013-02-28 02:47:26 AM

CliChe Guevara: phalamir: Well, shiat, then just start sinking the Japanese boats.  If you are screwed no matter what, then at least accomplish something.

So very, very -THIS-

I think I only despise that group because they have such great funding and equipment and support, and only use it to fark around in rubber boats and play to cameras instead of just sinking the bastards. Not like anyone would care, the Japanese are violating so many laws, both international and those of the sovereign areas they are operating in.

 I have been to Australia and NZ, and seen what happens when the Sea Shepard ships come in (celebration), and the Japanese ships come in (seizure under various pretenses). I don't think much investigation would be done if someone just straight up torpedoed or limpet mined that factory ship.


The only people who "celebrate" the Sea Shepherd arrival are the left wing Greenpeace members. Nobody else here gives a toss. In fact, I'd be willing to bet more people feel ill-will toward the Sea Shepherd than feel empathy or solidarity towards it.
 
2013-02-28 04:08:32 AM

Draq: Yeah that's a lovely cop out isn't it, blaming people who are indirectly harming recovery efforts through honestly very little fault of their own given the technologies most people have access to and the low level of choice you actually have in what your lifestyle requires.


What, you whale-worshipers don't have access to bicycles? You don't have access to re-usable shopping bags? You can't not fill your homes with junk you don't need?

No, I think I'm going to keep putting a good amount of blame on the people who are deliberately going out and killing endangered species.

...And I'll keep on pointing out that you're a hypocrite.

The real danger whales face is from pollution. Whaling is irrelevant by comparison, but by all means, keep on telling  other people to change. You hypocrite.
 
2013-02-28 04:32:28 AM

Thunderpipes: All commercial ships should mount at least four 50 caliber machine guns on them to deter piracy.

At the first biological weapon hurled (and yes, the anti-whaling pussies do this), open fire. Problem goes away within a month.


You don't need machine guns to make SS go away; the norwegian coast guard tossed a couple of depth charges at one of their tubs, and the fat fark ran crying all the way back to Amsterdam. He hasn't been near Norway since. (we're talking mid-90s here)

Tried to find a link to this, but all google got me was 10000 pages of sea shepherd BS. Those guys must spend a lot of time at the keyboard. Sheesh.
 
2013-02-28 05:40:27 AM

Seth'n'Spectrum: That definition of piracy feels like a stretch.


Dont these morons fly a friggen pirate flag for god sake?  How much of a stretch does it have to be?

If you fly under a pirate flag, you should be killed as a pirate.  Pirate profiling is okay, cause its based on self identification.
 
2013-02-28 10:39:26 AM
I'm seriously against the japanese rape of the oceans
absolutely repulsive as a cultural drive

but I farking hate these anti whaling farktards
Serving no purpose other than self aggrandizing
whatever sympathy I may have had at one point is absolutely ruined.
 
2013-02-28 12:20:06 PM

Deathfrogg: The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.


Actually, it is the duty of the smaller vessel to avoid the larger one. The larger ship is not as capable of stopping or manuvering.

/has a boating license.
//to putter around a lake in a 5hp dinghy
 
2013-02-28 12:58:09 PM

fluffy2097: Deathfrogg: The factory ship the Japanese are using displaces three times what the Bob Barker does. The Bob Barker has repeatedly been rammed from behind by the Nishin Maru. The Japanese are the ones breaking the law.

Actually, it is the duty of the smaller vessel to avoid the larger one. The larger ship is not as capable of stopping or manuvering.

/has a boating license.
//to putter around a lake in a 5hp dinghy



this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking,  and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.
 
2013-02-28 01:04:00 PM
You mean encumbered right?
 
2013-02-28 01:37:51 PM

fluffy2097: You mean encumbered right?


No.  I meant constrained by her draft.  Everything else applies though, right?
 
2013-02-28 08:07:36 PM

johnny_vegas: this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking, and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.


Not true. In the most recent incident that I've seen on video the two whaling ships were side by side in an underway replenishment configuration. They are by definition limited in course and speed changes. The Sea Shepherds intent was to disrupt that evolution by getting in the middle and make them break off the unrep early. They knew or should have known that they were going to be causing a collision situation as it's a part of the coursework to understand what happens when two or more ships are close aboard and parallel to each other (if you are not aware of the physics involved it means that they tend to get sucked in to each other and the closer they are the greater the suction). It's a very dangerous situation even on a good day

Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.

There are also other non-inland situations where a ships course and speed are encumbered such as fishing trawlers. Regardless of that every experienced mariner knows that a really big ship can't stop on a dime (the general assumption for an average cargo ship is at least 4k yards from transit speed to stopped in an emergency stop situation and those ships generally speaking loathe to slow down, much less stop) and course changes are similarly limited in that they aren't going to result in all that rapid of a bearing change.

The only smaller ships that have the right of way over larger ships are the ones under power by sail or that have lost steerage due to a mechanical failure (and are displaying the proper makings as such). Even then the sailing craft usually give up their right of way whenever possible because lets face it, steel will always win over wood, fiberglass or thin aluminum.

All of this is common knowledge and basic rule of thumb type stuff that everyone with a masters license knows quite well. The responsible ones will go out of their way to avoid such situations from becoming a problem by anticipating other ships movements miles before they might become an issue and making minor course and speed corrections early. The irresponsible ones apparently go work for Sea Shepherds.
 
2013-02-28 10:00:18 PM

Radioactive Ass: Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.


If you think anyone on the Sea Shepherd vessels has any sort of license or training, you must have never seen the show. They are clueless as to any sort of maritime laws or conventions. I remember at one point they had a "First Mate" who was incapable of reading a compass and a "Communications Officer" whose expertise was in web design.
 
2013-02-28 10:17:09 PM

StRalphTheLiar: Radioactive Ass: Not only is this a violation of the law but it is something that can (and undoubtedly will) be brought before a maritime court by the Japanese. Someone is going to lose their masters license and possibly be seeing the inside of a jail cell because of the wanton and reckless behavior on the behalf of the Sea Shepherds.

If you think anyone on the Sea Shepherd vessels has any sort of license or training, you must have never seen the show. They are clueless as to any sort of maritime laws or conventions. I remember at one point they had a "First Mate" who was incapable of reading a compass and a "Communications Officer" whose expertise was in web design.


By law every registered merchant ship has to have someone aboard with a masters license. The rest of the crew operates under his\her supervision and is why the Captains of all ships are considered responsible for everything that happens on his ship (traditionally the Captain is the one with the license but it's not a hard and fast rule, it's just that nobody with any intelligence is going to risk their careers by putting their license on the line without having an absolute final say in what is being done aboard ship). They are supposed to train the crew (or at least certify that they are competent through previous training and experience). I did watch the show and for at least one season they had an ex-USN navigation officer (or at least that was the claim being made) and from what I saw I believed it, she tried to set up some training as it should have been done properly and was shut down by the first mate because it was too hard or something stupid like that.

I could go on and on railing against what I've seen on that show and just how wrong they did just about everything but I don't feel like writing a book right now...
 
2013-03-01 10:03:50 AM

Radioactive Ass: johnny_vegas: this is only true if the larger vessel is specifically designated uncumbered by draft, displays the appropriate marking, and even then is only applicable in Inland Waters.

Not true.


Yes true. The specific instance we were discussing is Constrained by draft which is inland only. Restricted in ability to maneuver (for various reasons), fishing, submarine on the surface, sailboat, etc apply in international waters also. I agree with everything else you said.

The Venturi effect is the force you are talking about between ships and you can see it in action in some of the videos of those knuckleheads getting between the ships.
 
2013-03-01 10:14:08 AM

johnny_vegas: Yes true. The specific instance we were discussing is Constrained by draft which is inland only. Restricted in ability to maneuver (for various reasons), fishing, submarine on the surface, sailboat, etc apply in international waters also. I agree with everything else you said.


My bad then. I was reading it as it being claimed that only inland waters have restricted movement situations, which, as you are apparently aware, is not true.
 
2013-03-01 10:31:51 AM

Radioactive Ass: johnny_vegas: Yes true. The specific instance we were discussing is Constrained by draft which is inland only. Restricted in ability to maneuver (for various reasons), fishing, submarine on the surface, sailboat, etc apply in international waters also. I agree with everything else you said.

My bad then. I was reading it as it being claimed that only inland waters have restricted movement situations, which, as you are apparently aware, is not true.



yeah and I screwed up the terminology originally which didn't help

spent lots of years at sea and conducted lots of refuelings
 
2013-03-01 01:00:39 PM
natas6.0: I'm seriously against the japanese rape of the oceans
absolutely repulsive as a cultural drive

but I farking hate these anti whaling farktards
Serving no purpose other than self aggrandizing
whatever sympathy I may have had at one point is absolutely ruined.


Yeah I watched like maybe 1-2 episodes of it after the SP episode about them, and about all I can say is Southpark Nailed it.
 
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