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(Huffington Post)   David Barton admits the story he told Glenn Beck about heroic gun-toting schoolchildren was actually ripped off from a Louis L'Amour novel, but it's OK because L'Amour said it really happened, honest   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 95
    More: Dumbass, Louis L'Amour, WallBuilders, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Da Vinci Code  
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2322 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Feb 2013 at 12:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-26 09:18:02 PM  
Listening to Barton talk to Beck why would one expect anything but fiction?
 
2013-02-26 09:26:38 PM  
All republicans do is lie. It should really only be newsworthy when they tell the truth.
 
2013-02-26 10:59:28 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Listening to Barton talk to Beck why would one expect anything but fiction?


Why would one listen to Barton talk to Beck to begin with?
 
2013-02-26 11:21:27 PM  

SoupGuru: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Listening to Barton talk to Beck why would one expect anything but fiction?

Why would one listen to Barton talk to Beck to begin with?


Finding that you can listen to both at the same time is a special kind of serenderpity.
 
2013-02-27 12:19:14 AM  
David Barton is an amateur hack who has spent far more time constructing an agenda than any set of professional historian's skills.  The man is a disgrace to a profession which he's a part of at only the most rudimentary levels.  And those are the nicest things I can think to say about him.
 
2013-02-27 12:22:00 AM  
What mental disorder is it where you cannot distinguish reality from fiction?
 
2013-02-27 12:22:37 AM  

UNC_Samurai: David Barton is an amateur hack who has spent far more time constructing an agenda than any set of professional historian's skills.  The man is a disgrace to a profession which he's a part of at only the most rudimentary levels.  And those are the nicest things I can think to say about him.


For every person of integrity, honor, and justice, you'll find a dozen happy to line up and sell themselves. He's not special - he's the rule, not the exception. He's an academic prostitute.
 
2013-02-27 12:24:00 AM  

UNC_Samurai: David Barton is an amateur hack who has spent far more time constructing an agenda than any set of professional historian's skills.  The man is a disgrace to a profession which he's a part of at only the most rudimentary levels.  And those are the nicest things I can think to say about him.


Wait, are you saying that an American evangelical Christian minister, conservative activist, and author with no training as a historian in anyway has an agenda? Well I'm shocked, shocked I tells ya!
 
2013-02-27 12:24:05 AM  
Louis L'Amour, the author who o couldn't remember his characters' horses names across the entirety of a novel?  Sounds legit.
 
2013-02-27 12:28:02 AM  
Be nice. He only went on Beck's show and told that story to make other gun toters with 4th grade educations feel like big men.

I doubt Beck's audience would believe you if you told them Gunsmoke wasn't a documentary.
 
2013-02-27 12:29:23 AM  

BSABSVR: Louis L'Amour, the author who o couldn't remember his characters' horses names across the entirety of a novel?  Sounds legit.


Me and my friends often joked that every book in a Meijer book section--nothing but sad self-help, Harlesquin romances, and dozens upon dozens of L'Amour reprints and sad action-adventure novels pushing the idea of the wild but superior individual with a hot and swappable woman--was the foundation of modern right-wing philosophy.  And I'm horrified to see that we were right.

/not to mention the LaHaye nonsense
//but that's probably a side effect of, not a cause
 
2013-02-27 12:32:01 AM  

FormlessOne: UNC_Samurai: David Barton is an amateur hack who has spent far more time constructing an agenda than any set of professional historian's skills.  The man is a disgrace to a profession which he's a part of at only the most rudimentary levels.  And those are the nicest things I can think to say about him.

For every person of integrity, honor, and justice, you'll find a dozen happy to line up and sell themselves. He's not special - he's the rule, not the exception. He's an academic prostitute.


I think the term you're looking for is "charlatan".
 
2013-02-27 12:38:53 AM  
Kids were in fact taking their target rifles to school all the way through the 1950's, your parents and grandparents should be able to verify this pretty easily. While the story about them defending their teacher may well be apocryphal, it's delusional to think that frontier kids bringing guns to school in the 1800's wasn't a fairly ubiquitous occurrence.
 
2013-02-27 12:44:43 AM  

stoli n coke: I doubt Beck's audience would believe you if you told them Gunsmoke wasn't a documentary.


Did you choose Gunsmoke deliberately? It's an interesting coincidence if you didn't.
 
2013-02-27 12:46:51 AM  
Weird, I'm reading a Louis L'Amour book right now, Mojave Crossing. It has one of the best opening lines I've ever read:

"When I saw that black-eyed woman a-looking at me I wished I had a Bible."

This part is more relevant to the discussion:

"I never had it in mind to shoot at any man, ma'am, but when somebody takes up a gun and comes for you in anger, he borrows grief. He was fetching trouble, so I gave him what he asked for."

I don't read many westerns but I had just finished Hombre by Elmore Leonard, which I really enjoyed, so I thought I'd read some L'Amour. Hadn't read any since I was a kid.
 
2013-02-27 12:48:52 AM  
What if the kids didn't like the teacher?
 
2013-02-27 12:49:22 AM  

Boo Radley: Kids were in fact taking their target rifles to school all the way through the 1950's, your parents and grandparents should be able to verify this pretty easily. While the story about them defending their teacher may well be apocryphal, it's delusional to think that frontier kids bringing guns to school in the 1800's wasn't a fairly ubiquitous occurrence.


So why not just say that instead of going on the air and presenting a fictional John Wayne jerk-off fantasy as established history?
 
2013-02-27 12:52:08 AM  
Either way, while the relative defensive value of adults carrying guns around in various situations versus the risk of accidents/negligence is debatable and varies widely with the specific situation under discussion, I think we can all pretty damned well agree that minors are stupid and the ratio falls heavily in favor of the accidents/negligence side for basically anyone under the age of 16.

Not that adults can't be stupid, but 16- humans are _universally_ stupid, and suffer even greater decreases in intelligence with number than adults.  Not going to get anyone to support arming them without supervision anytime soon.
 
2013-02-27 12:54:28 AM  

stoli n coke: Boo Radley: Kids were in fact taking their target rifles to school all the way through the 1950's, your parents and grandparents should be able to verify this pretty easily. While the story about them defending their teacher may well be apocryphal, it's delusional to think that frontier kids bringing guns to school in the 1800's wasn't a fairly ubiquitous occurrence.

So why not just say that instead of going on the air and presenting a fictional John Wayne jerk-off fantasy as established history?


It's David Barton.  The guy is genetically incapable of going more than five minutes without making something up.  When he does his wife doggy-style, he sticks a finger up her ass and tells her it's Thomas Jefferson's quill pen.
 
2013-02-27 01:13:45 AM  
Freedom
hot-dogma.com
cryingeagle.jpg
 
2013-02-27 01:14:55 AM  
filmcrithulk.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-27 01:16:37 AM  
Relying on an unsourced story from a writer of western fiction? Man, I can't wait for Barton to weave the celebrated jumping frog of Calaveras County into our national dialogue.
 
2013-02-27 01:17:20 AM  

The same David Barton who claims that all the Founding Fathers were evangelicals, and whose book about Thomas Jefferson was thoroughly debunked by conservative historians, and pulled by a Christian publishing company for being a pack of lies?



Publisher Pulls Controversial Thomas Jefferson Book, Citing Loss Of Confidence

Seems legit.
 
2013-02-27 01:36:45 AM  

meat0918: What mental disorder is it where you cannot distinguish reality from fiction?


Republicanism
 
2013-02-27 01:37:49 AM  

BSABSVR: stoli n coke: Boo Radley: Kids were in fact taking their target rifles to school all the way through the 1950's, your parents and grandparents should be able to verify this pretty easily. While the story about them defending their teacher may well be apocryphal, it's delusional to think that frontier kids bringing guns to school in the 1800's wasn't a fairly ubiquitous occurrence.

So why not just say that instead of going on the air and presenting a fictional John Wayne jerk-off fantasy as established history?

It's David Barton.  The guy is genetically incapable of going more than five minutes without making something up.  When he does his wife doggy-style, he sticks a finger up her ass and tells her it's Thomas Jefferson's quill pen.


I'm using that one on my wife. "I'm just writing the Declaration of Independence, honey."
 
2013-02-27 01:39:30 AM  
The same David Barton who is suing a couple former Texas State Board of Education candidates for libel (one of which happens to be my mother) for pointing out that he spoke at White Supremacist rallies.

His defense boils down to "Yeah, I spoke at White Supremacist rallies, but I didn't KNOW they were white supremacist rallies at the time, I swear!"

What a douchecanoe.

More here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/us/david-bartons-defamation-lawsuit - tests-new-texas-law.html?_r=0
 
2013-02-27 02:07:21 AM  

cc_rider: The same David Barton who claims that all the Founding Fathers were evangelicals, and whose book about Thomas Jefferson was thoroughly debunked by conservative historians, and pulled by a Christian publishing company for being a pack of lies?


It's a shame Jefferson, Franklin, Payne and the rest of the atheist-agnostic branch of the Founding Fathers aren't around to punch guys like Barton in the taint.
 
2013-02-27 02:52:29 AM  

Nobodyn0se: The same David Barton who is suing a couple former Texas State Board of Education candidates for libel (one of which happens to be my mother) for pointing out that he spoke at White Supremacist rallies.

His defense boils down to "Yeah, I spoke at White Supremacist rallies, but I didn't KNOW they were white supremacist rallies at the time, I swear!"

What a douchecanoe.

More here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/us/david-bartons-defamation-lawsuit - tests-new-texas-law.html?_r=0


But really, who doesn't end up speaking at one of those at some point in their lives?

/I thought they were LARPing as ghosts.
 
2013-02-27 02:59:04 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: cc_rider: The same David Barton who claims that all the Founding Fathers were evangelicals, and whose book about Thomas Jefferson was thoroughly debunked by conservative historians, and pulled by a Christian publishing company for being a pack of lies?

It's a shame Jefferson, Franklin, Payne and the rest of the atheist-agnostic branch of the Founding Fathers aren't around to punch guys like Barton in the taint.


Yes, it is.

And to Nobodyn0se: I hope your mother and her lawyer achieve the legal equivalent of that sentiment.
 
2013-02-27 02:59:59 AM  
If only more school kids where armed we would have no pornlems

/Study it out
 
2013-02-27 03:01:42 AM  

Nobodyn0se: The same David Barton who is suing a couple former Texas State Board of Education candidates for libel (one of which happens to be my mother) for pointing out that he spoke at White Supremacist rallies.

His defense boils down to "Yeah, I spoke at White Supremacist rallies, but I didn't KNOW they were white supremacist rallies at the time, I swear!"

What a douchecanoe.

More here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/us/david-bartons-defamation-lawsuit - tests-new-texas-law.html?_r=0


I'm too lazy to look it up, what's the current status of the case? Dude needs someone to explain how defamation works when dealing with public figures. These clowns always act like just because they did something before the Internet that everybody should pretend it didn't happen.
 
2013-02-27 03:05:20 AM  
David Barton is full of shiat?

Give me a moment here, I need to sit down.

Pro wrestling is till real right? Guys?
 
2013-02-27 03:07:31 AM  
It's ridiculous first of all to believe that an anecdotal story would change the argument when there is already plenty of evidence to suggest that merely having more guns doesn't solve anything.

Furthermore arming everyone and living in full time paranoia mode sounds like a dystopian future no one wants to live in. And by the mere acknowledgement that violence is negative and undesirable, would that not dictate that we should be actively striving for a more peaceful society/world? Worship of killing machines somehow seems entirely antithetical to that concept.
 
2013-02-27 03:13:28 AM  

meat0918: What mental disorder is it where you cannot distinguish reality from fiction?


Hyperreality. Most prevalent among growing children who are learning to distinguish between imaginative fantasy and real life.
 
2013-02-27 04:11:57 AM  
Wonkette had a good description for Barton, "serial fact molester".
 
2013-02-27 04:16:15 AM  
Fifty Shades of Guns.
 
2013-02-27 04:19:42 AM  

thoughtless: But really, who doesn't end up speaking at one of those at some point in their lives?/I thought they were LARPing as ghosts.


They had to dress up like that because they were wearing a Hitler costume underneath, and that could have been misconstrued as racist.
 
2013-02-27 04:28:55 AM  

MayoSlather: Furthermore arming everyone and living in full time paranoia mode sounds like a dystopian future no one wants to live in.


To be fair, arming everyone is actually pretty awesome.  Using a gun is kind of a life skill, and part of handling the things properly if it ever comes up is definitely being familiar with them.

It's just arming everyone with the expectation that that will actually have some real impact on crime that's stupid.  I mean, it'll cut down on the population of exceptionally stupid criminals pretty fast, but even mildly competent ones are going to set their shiat up so that drawing on them is not a realistic option.

Like everything else from pepper spray to increased funding for police, that shiat's not some sort of magical panacea and its application to crime rates is going to be limited.

//Albeit, rescinding the automatic concealed-carry exception on college campuses and perhaps schools in general might help with certain specific types of crime, but even that's not really going to prevent the crime so much as redirecting it towards another 'soft target', since school shootings tend to be in "crazies gonna craze" territory.
 
2013-02-27 05:07:56 AM  
I predict the whole "kids should be armed" and "husky 12-year-olds should rush heavily-armed killers" thing will bring the GOP as much electoral success as transvaginal wands, "shut that whole thing down," "birth control is poison/a violation of my religious freedom" and all the other RAPE RAPE RAPE brilliance.

Please proceed, medieval douchebags.
 
2013-02-27 05:27:08 AM  

Boo Radley: Kids were in fact taking their target rifles to school all the way through the 1950's, your parents and grandparents should be able to verify this pretty easily. While the story about them defending their teacher may well be apocryphal, it's delusional to think that frontier kids bringing guns to school in the 1800's wasn't a fairly ubiquitous occurrence.


We were taking them to school in the late 70s, openly displayed on gun racks...  In California, no less.
 
2013-02-27 05:36:22 AM  
Why should kids with guns be relegated to historical fiction?  I say we make it a way of life.

bp1.blogger.com
 
2013-02-27 05:51:10 AM  
i1162.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-27 06:11:49 AM  

Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 555x500]


His mother must be so proud.
 
2013-02-27 06:14:25 AM  
img824.imageshack.us
G. Beck
 
2013-02-27 06:37:19 AM  
Instead of arming he kids why don't we teach them all ninja skills? It makes as much sense.

I am sick of the gun debate on this level. Rather than a reasonable discussion on the issue all I hear are lies, strawmen, and red-herring arguments which are not part of the discussion at all. Most of the "pro-gun counter arguments" I see from friends regarding the gun control debate are about not seizing their guns, defending a person's right to conceal carry, against banning hand guns, against not allowing them to have guns, defending their right to home protection, etc; Hell even saw one this morning defending shotguns which even Joe Biden supports owning. Nothing regarding expanded background checks or registration; and when they do talk about something legit like Feinstein's proposed "Assault weapons ban" they get all the facts wrong. They do not discuss the actual merits of the bill, the stopping of future sales, but rather act like it authorizes the government to seize all that are currently owned. Thus even an issue I agree with I can't discuss with them because they go all derp; and correcting their misconceptions only get met with "derp" and accusatons that I want to ban guns, despite being a gun owner including an AR-15 style rifle and being a person who conceal carries.

As a matter of fact I have realized that no matter how you preface your argument, explain how you support responsible gun ownership, lay out the guns you own, and explain how it is the illegal guns and gun owners you are addressing until you are blue in the face; yet they only response will be "the government aren't going to take MY gun, 2nd Amendment, derp derp derp." Even on issues which you are trying to agree on and find common ground. It's the firearms equivalent of trying to explain that Obamacare has no death panels and is not a government takeover of medicine.
I have a feeling this is what the NRA, Glenn Beck, and other derper pundits/politicians want toe conversation to devolve in to; because their unreasonable stances would not hold up to a reasonable debate based on only the facts.
 
2013-02-27 06:39:31 AM  

Guntram Shatterhand: BSABSVR: Louis L'Amour, the author who o couldn't remember his characters' horses names across the entirety of a novel?  Sounds legit.

Me and my friends often joked that every book in a Meijer book section--nothing but sad self-help, Harlesquin romances, and dozens upon dozens of L'Amour reprints and sad action-adventure novels pushing the idea of the wild but superior individual with a hot and swappable woman--was the foundation of modern right-wing philosophy.  And I'm horrified to see that we were right.

/not to mention the LaHaye nonsense
//but that's probably a side effect of, not a cause


Well, you could say that it is a symptom of the influence of the John Birch Society's influence on right-wing politics.
 
2013-02-27 06:57:38 AM  
It's kind of disturbing that when asking the question of, "Okay, how would YOU keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people?" to some anti-gun-control activists, the answer seems to be, "I wouldn't.  Bad guys don't follow rules, so we shouldn't have rules.  Just give everyone a gun and and make sure everyone, from the 5 year-olds learning their ABCs to the 90 year-olds tending their gardens, is ever vigilant to take up arms against any perceived threat."

And I just have to think to myself... is this really the kind of world these people want to create?
 
2013-02-27 07:08:03 AM  

Fast Moon: It's kind of disturbing that when asking the question of, "Okay, how would YOU keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people?" to some anti-gun-control activists, the answer seems to be, "I wouldn't.  Bad guys don't follow rules, so we shouldn't have rules.  Just give everyone a gun and and make sure everyone, from the 5 year-olds learning their ABCs to the 90 year-olds tending their gardens, is ever vigilant to take up arms against any perceived threat."

And I just have to think to myself... is this really the kind of world these people want to create?


img825.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-27 07:14:52 AM  
OK, I never heard what this guy was saying to Beck, but ... please tell me someone wasn't so stupid as to suggest that the way to stop school shootings is to tell 6th graders to go to school armed.
 
2013-02-27 07:15:50 AM  

Fast Moon: It's kind of disturbing that when asking the question of, "Okay, how would YOU keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people?" to some anti-gun-control activists, the answer seems to be, "I wouldn't.  Bad guys don't follow rules, so we shouldn't have rules.  Just give everyone a gun and and make sure everyone, from the 5 year-olds learning their ABCs to the 90 year-olds tending their gardens, is ever vigilant to take up arms against any perceived threat."

And I just have to think to myself... is this really the kind of world these people want to create?



Pretty much, yes it is.  It is also totally irrational.  By their reasoning anti-child molestation laws should be repealed because they don't 100% solve the problem of child molestation.  Unfortunately I am almost certain they would agree and propose arming all kids as a better solution.  Of course in their "solution" the child molesters will have guns also, which they seem to conveniently forget.  While normally the previous statements would be a "strawman", the subject of the article makes it not one because it is about "arming kids" as an actual "solution" to gun violence.

When your political movement can be successfully turned into a pro-wrestling story-line that is "believable" and your arguments automatically give traditional strawman counter arguments "substance"; maybe you need to re-evaluate what that movement stands for.
 
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