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(WFAA Fort Worth)   Employees at animation studio hosting interactive online event for kids witness child abuse. Now on a mission to help abused kids reach out for help through interactive characters   (wfaa.com) divider line 74
    More: Hero, Plano, Kyle Blietz, Dallas County  
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12856 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Feb 2013 at 10:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-26 05:21:47 AM
11 votes:

strangeluck: Asinine tag for the cops for not hauling the dad in temporarily and making sure the kid was actually okay by taking him to a hospital and speaking with a social worker.


No.

A million times no.

*knock knock*

"Sir, someone from halfway across the country called us and said they were talking to your son on the Internet and they heard him screaming. Therefore, on those grounds alone, we're taking you in for questioning and we're going to scare the living sh*t out of the kid by forcing him to watch his dad hauled away from him in the middle of the night and some strange lady will come in and ask him a bunch of questions but not answer any of his about where his dad is or what the hell is going on."

When I was 4 years old, my family went through a false accusation of child abuse by a vindictive neighbor, angry that my parents had called the cops because of their excessive partying (I'm not talking just noise, but two people farking on our back porch kind of partying). The "investigation" involved, among other things, the police demanding that my parents remove their child's clothing to show proof that no crime had been committed. (Yes, the cops demanded to see my bare naked ass.) As a result of the lawsuit my parents filed, the law was permanently changed in my birth state with a clause bearing my family's last name.

I would ask that anyone posting to this thread with legal training that recognizes this case from my somewhat vague description please do not post the name; I like my semi-anonimity here.

I will fight to my last breath against a society in which what you believe should have happened, could EVER happen to another child like me. The cops did their job in this case, unlike the ones that visited me that night.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of excessively spanking a child, and I hope that one day we will progress as a society to the parental education level necessary for the practice of corporal punishment to be the exception rather than the norm. For now, negative reinforcement through pain association is an option that parents have used throughout history, and will likely use for the foreseeable future for the simple reason that it works. If the use of a belt for punishment is not leaving permanent scars or bruises, but merely causes temporary pain, then it is absolutely the parent's prerogative. A vague description from a skype session based only on the sound of the boy's cries, especially considering the boy was not known to the individuals personally (i.e., what he sounds like when he sad cries vs. hurt cries vs. afraid cries), is frankly a ridiculous reason for farking with a family and scaring the sh*t out of a poor kid.

People who use the phrase "child abuse" when they see a child being physically punished cheapen the term and make it harder to solve the problem of real child abuse.
2013-02-26 01:56:44 AM
10 votes:
Asinine tag for the cops for not hauling the dad in temporarily and making sure the kid was actually okay by taking him to a hospital and speaking with a social worker. A young kid is not necessarily going to stand there and be fully honest about the man beating the snot out of him, especially when it's his dad.

Yes I know parents have the right to discipline their children, but I don't agree with beating kids. Unplug the farking computer if you don't want him to use it, and ground him for a week.

Big kudos to the animation company people for calling 911 when they thought that kid was being attacked, and taking up the cause to help other kids. That's just awesome they're trying to help.
2013-02-26 10:52:06 AM
7 votes:

ox45tallboy: for the simple reason that it works


There is no evidence of this. In fact there's lots of evidence against it. Which is why it's not an accepted practice in, for example, training animals. And why it's not used against adults (and never was).

It's just that people are slower on the uptake for changing their social behavior than they are for changing their behavior toward dogs.

they heard him screaming.

And saw him being hit. With something other than a hand. Several times. And recorded it. What more evidence do you need?

This case wasn't ignored for lack of evidence, it was ignored because we tolerate hitting children (so long as you are their legal parent [or have permission from such a person] and use the magic word "discipline"; if you fail either of those tests it's still a crime like it would be if you did the same thing to an adult).

we're taking you in for questioning and we're going to scare the living sh*t out of the kid

Couldn't we solve that problem simply by making child welfare checks a standard part of children's lives, just like dental and medical care? Then kids wouldn't be scared by the questions, would get some sense of what was and was not acceptable behavior from adults in their lives, and wouldn't be as reliant on emergency reporting and foster care -- we could detect problems before they required removal from the home, provide services to the parents to improve everyone's life, and avoid the involvement of the police altogether.

I understand you had a bad time with the system, and I agree it could be improved. Dramatically. The fact that we depend largely on emergency placements initiated by the police and reports from mandatory reporters is bad for children and parents in both cases of real abuse and mistaken or fraudulent reports. But 1700 children died last year from maltreatment by their parents; the solution can't possibly be to raise the bar for reporting.
2013-02-26 10:55:52 AM
6 votes:
If you need to hit your child, then you have failed as a parent and are certainly no critical thinker, plain and simple. Stay in Texas, you trash.
2013-02-26 12:18:45 PM
5 votes:
One hundred or even fifty years ago, it might have been normal to beat the fool out of a kid, but it was also ok to treat blacks and gays as sub-human.  Wasn't right then, so we tried to make a better world by raising civil rights for others.  Same thing with beating kids.  Stop doing it now.  Act like the adult you claim to be.  When your boss pisses you off, you don't take poke at him, so show the same friggin control around someone smaller than you.
2013-02-26 11:57:30 AM
4 votes:
Plenty of incidents of abuse have started when kids did something that deserved punishment. But then the adult lost control or went too far. So just because the kid deserved to be punished doesn't mean it wasn't abuse.

I think they did the right thing by calling the police. And the police came out and did the right thing by making sure there wasn't any indication of abuse.
Maybe this is exactly how it should have played out.
2013-02-26 10:43:53 AM
4 votes:
I look forward to the day when this unspanked crop of kids grows up into self-serving, unemployable sociopaths.  To all of the anti-spanking parents: have a great time living with, supporting, and cleaning up after your child for the rest of your life.  I wouldn't make any retirement plans.  You aren't going to have any money after paying the lawyers to get Junior out of his sixth DUI.  And don't forget to blame everyone but yourself when you realize you dislike your own child.

I feel angry-sick when I see a kid on the playground push another kid down.  His mother, who's always two steps away, gets down on her knees and explains to the little brat how were supposed to be polite and orderly.  Then she musses his hair and sends him off, having taught him nothing.  Worse case, he's got to go sit on a bench for a few minutes by himself.  Yeah, because self-reflection and isolation are punishments.  It's face palming idiocy at its worst.

Not spanking is child abuse.  The child will grow up with far more mental and emotional scars if he isn't spanked and firmly disciplined.  And when did bruising become abuse?  I'm not talking about blacking the kids eyes or anything, but there should be discolored marks on the buttocks and thighs - IT'S A SPANKING FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.  You want the kid to remember the lesson for longer than the actual spanking, right?  Even parents who spank go too lightly these days.  And all because they're afraid of some bleeding heart reporting them to child services.

But go right ahead and raise your three foot facsimile of your pussy.  The world really needs more pussies and cry babies.  There's just not enough.  Pieces of shiat.
2013-02-26 01:32:10 PM
3 votes:
This flat out made me cry.  Who the fark uses a belt on a kid?  I have an autistic child who does some farked up things and I would NEVER EVEN THINK of hitting him with ANYTHING!  Jesus!  What's the MATTER with people!  AND you NEVER discipline when you yourself are mad.  No good comes from it.  fark!
2013-02-26 12:36:24 PM
3 votes:

strangeluck: Asinine tag for the cops for not hauling the dad in temporarily and making sure the kid was actually okay by taking him to a hospital and speaking with a social worker. A young kid is not necessarily going to stand there and be fully honest about the man beating the snot out of him, especially when it's his dad.

Yes I know parents have the right to discipline their children, but I don't agree with beating kids. Unplug the farking computer if you don't want him to use it, and ground him for a week.

Big kudos to the animation company people for calling 911 when they thought that kid was being attacked, and taking up the cause to help other kids. That's just awesome they're trying to help.


As a semi-expert at inflicting pain on consenting adults, I'm real comfotable saying that no matter how you feel about hitting kids generally (personally I'm foursquare against it)  once an adult uses a force-multiplier like a belt on a child, you have gone way beyond dscipline and are in full-on abuse territory
2013-02-26 11:43:13 AM
3 votes:

ox45tallboy: People who use the phrase "child abuse" when they see a child being physically punished cheapen the term and make it harder to solve the problem of real child abuse.


As someone who was repeatedly beaten with a belt, with wooden spoons, kicked across the yard, etc., I have to say that if I see someone whipping a kid with a belt, I'm going to call the cops, too. It's REAL child abuse. No kid farks up to the point that they need to be beaten, and then it's just a short hop to accusing them of stealing money and food(Yes, stealing food), and beating them with that belt until they finally admit to it, and then continuing the beatings if the story they invent for what they did with the supposedly missing money doesn't add up. It's also abuse when the kid in question gets beaten with a wooden spoon for the smallest perceived infraction, then gets an extra beating if the spoon breaks in the process. It's also not fun to get repeatedly slapped in the mouth while sporting braces.

So yeah, you say family fun, I say child abuse. We'll leave it at that.
2013-02-26 11:15:36 AM
3 votes:
Why is it that if you do this to an adult, it's assault, given an instrument, more than likely aggravated assault... but if you pick a more vulnerable target... like your child, it's all ok then?
2013-02-26 10:57:35 AM
3 votes:

profplump: ox45tallboy: for the simple reason that it works

There is no evidence of this. In fact there's lots of evidence against it. Which is why it's not an accepted practice in, for example, training animals. And why it's not used against adults (and never was).

It's just that people are slower on the uptake for changing their social behavior than they are for changing their behavior toward dogs.

they heard him screaming.

And saw him being hit. With something other than a hand. Several times. And recorded it. What more evidence do you need?

This case wasn't ignored for lack of evidence, it was ignored because we tolerate hitting children (so long as you are their legal parent [or have permission from such a person] and use the magic word "discipline"; if you fail either of those tests it's still a crime like it would be if you did the same thing to an adult).

we're taking you in for questioning and we're going to scare the living sh*t out of the kid

Couldn't we solve that problem simply by making child welfare checks a standard part of children's lives, just like dental and medical care? Then kids wouldn't be scared by the questions, would get some sense of what was and was not acceptable behavior from adults in their lives, and wouldn't be as reliant on emergency reporting and foster care -- we could detect problems before they required removal from the home, provide services to the parents to improve everyone's life, and avoid the involvement of the police altogether.

I understand you had a bad time with the system, and I agree it could be improved. Dramatically. The fact that we depend largely on emergency placements initiated by the police and reports from mandatory reporters is bad for children and parents in both cases of real abuse and mistaken or fraudulent reports. But 1700 children died last year from maltreatment by their parents; the solution can't possibly be to raise the bar for reporting.


THIS. Totally THIS

/and yes, I am one of those who think "Violence doesn't solve the problem" in ANY form
//and like one farker said, unplug the damn computer if you don't want the kid on it. Taking away desired items would work better!
2013-02-26 10:50:32 AM
3 votes:
So weapons are okay now in disciplining kids?  I thought that concept went away.  Good to know.  A more level-headed solution would be to change the access password on the computer, but I understand how infuriating kids that absolutely refuse to listen can be.
2013-02-26 10:47:41 AM
3 votes:
I cannot, as a human, stand to hear the scream and cries of children in pain.  When you hear videos of kids being beaten, that bs with the first graders being told to fight each other by their older siblings, it completely sickens me. 
As a parent, i have made my child cry plenty of times, but i have never had my child beg and scream to please stop beating him.  There are a 1000 ways to effectively discipline your children, and that isn't one.
2013-02-26 04:17:18 PM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Loreweaver: If the punishment leaves a mark, welt, cut, or bruise of any kind, you are guilty of child abuse.

You do realize it is possible to kit a kid with a belt and not leave a mark, right?


The Vast Majority of people who use the belt instead of their hand, don't have that kind of restraint. They use the belt because it causes more suffering than they can inflict with their bare hand. Whether they want to admit it or not, they use it because on some level, they *want* to take their anger out on their kids.

You don't just wake up one day, and *poof* you're a child abuser. It builds up gradually. You let your own personal failings and frustrations fester, slowly shifting blame from yourself to those closest to you. The next you you know, you start taking out all that pent-up humiliation and frustration on your family. Then you feel guilty for inflicting pain on them, which then also festers and compounds, which then leads to you blaming *them* even more .. onward and downward in a perpetual spiral, until one day you pt your wife or children in the hospital, or worse.

Growing up, i have watched my mother and family tricked time and again by men who have carefully crafted their public persona to hide their true nature. Do you really think women marry a man who beats them on their wedding night? Of course not! It's the old adage of the frog in the cook-pot.

These men start off loving and protective, but then slowly and carefully begin to isolate their victim-wife and her children. It is only then that the abuse begins. Only when he feels he has complete power over them, will he reveal his true nature. and by then, it is usually too late. Fear is a powerful thing, especially if you've been conditioned to believe that no one will help you if you run away or turn him in.

i know these men better than they know themselves. I was forced to live in their shadow from the time I was 4, until the day I graduated high school. They are manipulative con-men, sadists, self-deluded, and pathetic little men who beat women and little children in order to make themselves feel powerful.
2013-02-26 01:12:38 PM
2 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: I'm a big time threatener. "Hey, don't make me come over there!" And I've got the 1,000 yard stare. But, I'm all talk. I've popped his ass a few times when it was definately needed but I can't bring myself to give it to him like I got in the 70s and 80s. The key to raising obedient kids is to always let them know you're crazier than they are. As long as my son thinks theres a potential for shiat to get crazy, I'm doing my job as a parent. I better not get a call from the school. I'll go up there wearing a fur coat with swimming trunks and dress shoes. He knows I will.


Oh how this made me laugh, because I've done similar.  Another technique I've used, which revolved around dog poo cleanup with my step son who was 13 is as follows:

After he claimed to be done picking it all up, I could still see some from the kitchen window.  I told him to go out and pick up what he missed and he claimed he got it all.  Instead of yelling at him (which would eventually lead to an argument), I took him outside, made him take of his shoes and socks, blindfolded him and told him to walk across the yard.

He refused, put his shoes back on and went to grab the pooper scooper to finish the job.

/Who said parenting can't be fun?
2013-02-26 01:06:13 PM
2 votes:

SFSailor: ... sure as shiat seems like it *doesn't* work, if the kid is getting beaten repeatedly on the same night for the same transgression, you know?


That's always the funniest and least logical position of spanking proponents. "It works better than anything!" If that's the case, then why do we ever hear about a child spanked more than once? Clearly it DOESN'T work so well if it has to get down again and again. You find that is pretty normal too. While many claim "Oh only in the most serious cases," you find that most of the physical discipline types turn to it as the first, not last, resort.

The reason is that it is effective at satisfying the spanker's primal urge to hurt something to alleviate their anger. Also it requires no thought or follow through, so there isn't really any introspection as to if the punishment was arbitrary or capricious.
2013-02-26 12:40:57 PM
2 votes:
As a victim of child abuse, let me tell you what the difference is between discipline and abuse.

While i agree that there are a lot of cases out there where the parents are falsely accused of child abuse, I have to say that if the workers at this company witnessed the boy being beaten with a belt, they *were* in fact witnessing child abuse.

The most glaring difference between discipline and abuse in this case is the use of a weapon, specifically the belt. There is *no* excuse for a parent to use a belt or paddle to discipline their child. If you absolutely must spank a child, do so only with your bare hand, and never strike in rage.

Another way to tell the difference:  A "proper" spanking should be only hard enough to string for a minute or two. If the punishment leaves a mark, welt, cut, or bruise of any kind, you are guilty of child abuse.

My biological father used to spank my sisters and I when we are bad, and he never once left a mark. My stepfathers, on the other hand, never stopped until our skin was red and starting to blister. One of my stepfathers was so violent, he would slam us against the walls when he hit us kids or my mother.

Take a wild guess as to which father I love and respect, and which I hate and fear to this day?
2013-02-26 11:53:19 AM
2 votes:

thisisarepeat: I caught my dog digging through the trash, so i hit him with the cardboard tube left over from a roll of paper towels.  He shrieked like i struck him with a hatchet.  This could have been something like that.


I've been hit with a paper towel tube, and I've been hit with a belt. There's a slight difference.
2013-02-26 11:35:24 AM
2 votes:
I'm a big time threatener. "Hey, don't make me come over there!" And I've got the 1,000 yard stare. But, I'm all talk. I've popped his ass a few times when it was definately needed but I can't bring myself to give it to him like I got in the 70s and 80s. The key to raising obedient kids is to always let them know you're crazier than they are. As long as my son thinks theres a potential for shiat to get crazy, I'm doing my job as a parent. I better not get a call from the school. I'll go up there wearing a fur coat with swimming trunks and dress shoes. He knows I will.
2013-02-26 11:24:54 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: When I was 4 years old, my family went through a false accusation of child abuse by a vindictive neighbor


Yeah, but this wasn't a false report and the animation company had cell phone evidence and several witnesses, so not really the same thing.

Another not so CSB - When my sister was 10 my mom was beating the crap out of her because she thought she heard my sister mutter something under her breath.  Her boyfriend had the good sense to stop the abu--- oh, wait no, he got my sister's 10 year old friend out of the house and back home, where the traumatized friend told her mother what she had witnessed.

CPS came and removed my sister from the home for one evening brought her to my uncle's house (so no, she was not in some foster care or Oliver Twist orphanage), then drove her back the next day after determining it was all good.

I guess they at least stopped my sister from getting beat that night, so there's that, but getting her out of the house did seem like the very least they could do.
2013-02-26 11:05:55 AM
2 votes:

mafiageek1980: //and like one farker said, unplug the damn computer if you don't want the kid on it. Taking away desired items would work better!


Exactly.  If I had problem with one of my children being a bully, I might consider hitting them as a means to show them "Isn't pleasant, is it?".  t's one thing to teach a kid not to use the fact he matured earlier, you don't throw your weight around (and there is always a bigger guy out there).  For non violent offenses though, you don't use violent responses.  It's always a scale, if the kid refuses to leave the computer, pick him up and place him in his room.  If he bites you when you pick him up, smack him across the face.  You don't bust out the belt and go to town though.

/ problem with the computer? Just put a password on the account that only you and your wife know
//the violence is a response by a failure of a parent who can't actually articulate and set boundaries
2013-02-26 10:53:06 AM
2 votes:

pkellmey: This is something that the local police, like in this case, can probably handle better than an Internet presence.


Is there some reason we need regional standard for "child abuse"? Do we also need regional standards for "rape"?
2013-02-26 06:45:25 AM
2 votes:

Frederick: Many believe corporal punishment is abuse.


And maybe it's not, since it has been used in child rearing since children existed.

And maybe slavery has existed since before the beginnings of recorded history, but we realize now that it is a barbaric practice that has no business in a civilized world.

The main problem is the potential for abuse of one's "rights". I'm sure there were many people who felt that forcing a criminal or lazy debtor to work off his debt by performing menial labor for someone who could afford to pay for it was a pretty good way of doing things, and then things just went south from there. Slapping a child's hand to keep him from doing something that could hurt himself is a noble cause when there is no option to remove him from the temptation to do so, but there are so many tiny steps between that and beating a child senseless that every single one of them could be justified if the one before was.

Maybe we should go with the Potter Stewart definition - "I know it when I see it."
2013-02-26 06:35:51 AM
2 votes:

Frederick: Child abuse is appropriately a sensitive topic.  I have unpopular opinions regarding the policing of child abuse which have led to an interest in other opinions.  I look forward to reading this thread later tonight at work.


My views are... interesting as well. My parents later went on to become foster parents for dozens of children, and I was told some nonspecific information about many of the children (I was a teenager by then and understood the need for privacy, but telling me some things might avoid conflicts and make me more sensitive to some of their issues - it was a really crazy gray area). In other words, I have also seen with my own eyes the effects of real, physical abuse on a child firsthand - the emotional scarring and psychological and developmental issues it causes, as well as the results of a false accusation and the crazy-ass sh*t I went through at the age of 4, and the trial when I was five.

I acknowledge the difference between experience and real study of information, and readily admit my own inadequacies as to the latter. But I can honestly say there are few people with my experiences in this matter. I would like to discuss this further with others who can give more of their own views having more of an educational knowledge than I possess.

I am +1'ing this piece of sh*t article and !#$^(#@ headline, not in the way I would +1 a Townhall link on the Politics tab, but because I would like more discussion about this subject.
2013-02-26 11:45:31 PM
1 votes:

Frederick: Bathia_Mapes: Hitting a child with a belt goes far beyond a mere spanking. It's now a beating, and I speak as someone who was frequently beaten with a belt as a child. Sometimes I deserved to be punished, but with spanking, not a beating with a belt because I had been naughty. However, I was also beaten for stuff like accidently knocking over my glass of milk at dinner.

That says a lot about the parent.  It was a different time then, though.  Many in your generation considered this normal.  It also lead to a very unhealthy submission to any perceived authority (read: church officials).


Just to be clear, there are a lot of people out there who don't think submission to any perceived authority is unhealthy at all. In fact, they consider that learned lack of submissiveness to be a fatal flaw in society, and will straw-man your ear off if you disagree.
2013-02-26 06:42:41 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: strangeluck: Asinine tag for the cops for not hauling the dad in temporarily and making sure the kid was actually okay by taking him to a hospital and speaking with a social worker.

No.

A million times no.

*knock knock*

"Sir, someone from halfway across the country called us and said they were talking to your son on the Internet and they heard him screaming. Therefore, on those grounds alone, we're taking you in for questioning and we're going to scare the living sh*t out of the kid by forcing him to watch his dad hauled away from him in the middle of the night and some strange lady will come in and ask him a bunch of questions but not answer any of his about where his dad is or what the hell is going on."

When I was 4 years old, my family went through a false accusation of child abuse by a vindictive neighbor, angry that my parents had called the cops because of their excessive partying (I'm not talking just noise, but two people farking on our back porch kind of partying). The "investigation" involved, among other things, the police demanding that my parents remove their child's clothing to show proof that no crime had been committed. (Yes, the cops demanded to see my bare naked ass.) As a result of the lawsuit my parents filed, the law was permanently changed in my birth state with a clause bearing my family's last name.

I would ask that anyone posting to this thread with legal training that recognizes this case from my somewhat vague description please do not post the name; I like my semi-anonimity here.

I will fight to my last breath against a society in which what you believe should have happened, could EVER happen to another child like me. The cops did their job in this case, unlike the ones that visited me that night.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of excessively spanking a child, and I hope that one day we will progress as a society to the parental education level necessary for the practice of corporal punishment to be the exception rather th ...


Don't get you wrong? Your family and it's lawsuit has probably impeded upon countless cases of actual abuse. Way to go! Your parents had people "farking on the back porch" and didn't deserve to have the cops called on them? What farking planet do you live on? It's stupid shiats like your parents that SHOULD be dragged away in front of you. Oh no! You might have been scared! That might have been good for you, considering how you turned out.
2013-02-26 04:31:09 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: 5monkeys: I find it sad that you believe the only way to raise children is through beating the shiat out of them.

The line between using pain as a negative reinforcement technique and "beating the sh*t out of them" is not as fine as you might think.

Many children are simply different. You are very fortunate, and obviously have taken quite a lot of time and effort into the car and upbringing of your children. You have to understand, however, that some kids just don't "get it" and require more discipline than others.



this is where you lost me.   And when did bruising become abuse? I'm not talking about blacking the kids eyes or anything, but there should be discolored marks on the buttocks and thighs - IT'S A SPANKING FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. You want the kid to remember the lesson for longer than the actual spanking, right? Even parents who spank go too lightly these days.

I have put the time and effort in.  I had the kids, it is my job to raise them.  I have met kids that need a good smack upside the head, but most of the time so do the parents.  There is a big difference between a quick swat on the arse and bruising.  Having kids fear you doesn't work as a long term goal.  Chances are one day they will be bigger and stronger then you.  My 14 year old is bigger then me.  If I hit her now she would probably laugh.  My boys are little, 4 and 3, but how long until they can take me in a fight?  I weigh 107lbs and I am 5'5".  The 3 year old knocks me over if he runs up for a hug too fast.  He's built like a brick house.  They listen to me because they respect me, and I respect them.  It's working so far.
2013-02-26 03:41:46 PM
1 votes:

greenboy: I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but i will caveat my statements. I'm talking the screams that come from being beaten and fully scared, not the scream b/c the spanking hurts.


What I meant is that children learn what sort of cries are effective at obtaining mercy from judgement, and use them. I have heard on several occasions my 4-year-old nephew screaming in holy terror, begging for mercy after he deliberately did exactly what his mother or father told him not to do, after being repeatedly warned he would get a spanking.

Every child cries differently, and these animators who did not know the child cannot say what kind of cry they were hearing. Sure it sounded horrible to them, but I don't think they can consider themselves experts in what exactly a random child's cry should sound like if they're receiving a spanking vs. being abused.
2013-02-26 03:12:53 PM
1 votes:

umad: Loreweaver: IRQ12:
The point was that the "violent screams" isn't really a good gauge of abuse, especially to a bunch of manchilds playing on the computer.

Ahh, so THE POINT IS that you think the introduction of a belt automatically becomes a "beating" just like the article would want you to think.  The police investigated and found no reason for arrest or referral to CPS, something they are more than willing to do if they suspect abuse.  ".

I've always felt that the cops and CPS aren't as willing to do as everyone says. Case in point, my last stepfather pulled a loaded gun on us kids and my mother one evening, while in a drunken rage, and he was never charged. He threatened to kill us at gunpoint, and no one lifted a God-damned finger when it was reported.

Why? Because it was his word against the neighbors, my mom was too terrified to speak out against him, and as a minor, my testimony didn't count. After that incident, I chose to go live with my biological father. My younger sisters weren't so lucky, and had to ensure another two years of abuse as that asshole got away with it.

I think I see your problem. Your mom is just as guilty as the asshole she kept around to beat you up.


First off, my mom was terrified of him for the very reason that no one could help her. Prior experience taught her that even if he was arrested, he'd just get out in 48 hours, and be MORE pissed at her.

Second, *I* was one of the people he threatened with that gun, yet *my* complaint to have him arrested for assault was denied. Why? Because in the eyes of the officers, I was just a rebellious teenager trying to get his stepfather in trouble

Police don't really care about the people involved in "domestic disputes". They only care when someone becomes hostile to them personally.
2013-02-26 03:07:58 PM
1 votes:

RobotSpider: Also, so we're clear, your position is that returning war veterans are suicidal not because of the horrors of war, but because they weren't beaten enough as children?


Yeah. they're soft.
Like little Debbie's snack cakes.

They aren't prepared for the reality of war.
They have no idea what the insanity of war looks like. All they know is the 2-D games they play.
They no not what a 5 day old dead child smells like.
They don't know what a mortal wound looks like, day after day, while wondering why they are there.
Knowing there are no terrorists, just people defending their miserable belief system that is right out of the old testament.
They aren't ready to reconcile having killed people not out of some patriotic splendor, but because they were caught up in the zeitgeist of the popular notion that they were spoon fed until they realize they have been eating poison, and their county is not going to catch them like some trust building exercise.
2013-02-26 03:05:01 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: PapaChester: If you need to hit your child, then you have failed as a parent and are certainly no critical thinker, plain and simple. Stay in Texas, you trash.

I bet you don't have kids. That's the only thing that could explain a post this judgmental.


Or they live in a country that understands that you don't need to use physical abuse to raise kids. New Zealand, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Spain, a sample of countries that ban hitting kids, period, including by parents. Turns out they also have lower crime/murder rates than the US so you can't really argue "Kids will grow up to be evil without spanking!"

So perhaps they are just from somewhere that has demonstrated that you can raise children without hitting them, and thus they think perhaps other countries should get on board since if you can achieve the same result without violence as with it (and actually apparently a better result) then that is the right answer.
2013-02-26 02:57:40 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: As someone who was repeatedly beaten with a belt, with wooden spoons, kicked across the yard, etc., I have to say that if I see someone whipping a kid with a belt, I'm going to call the cops, too. It's REAL child abuse. No kid farks up to the point that they need to be beaten, and then it's just a short hop to accusing them of stealing money and food(Yes, stealing food), and beating them with that belt until they finally admit to it, and then continuing the beatings if the story they invent for what they did with the supposedly missing money doesn't add up. It's also abuse when the kid in question gets beaten with a wooden spoon for the smallest perceived infraction, then gets an extra beating if the spoon breaks in the process. It's also not fun to get repeatedly slapped in the mouth while sporting braces.

So yeah, you say family fun, I say child abuse. We'll leave it at that.


While what you have described IS child abuse, I disagree that spanking a child with a belt falls under the category of abuse.

And I've never been a proponent of slapping a child in the face, braces or no. That is done for humiliation and degradation rather than punishment.
2013-02-26 02:55:25 PM
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: Hitting a child with a belt goes far beyond a mere spanking. It's now a beating, and I speak as someone who was frequently beaten with a belt as a child. Sometimes I deserved to be punished, but with spanking, not a beating with a belt because I had been naughty. However, I was also beaten for stuff like accidently knocking over my glass of milk at dinner.


First off, I've been looking for you to say THANK YOU!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!

What is the difference between the belt and the hand? After a certain age, the hand no longer provides a "sting", and you must hit the child hard enough to bruise in order to cause pain with your hand. I've already said (maybe not as explicitly as I could have) that leaving bruises IS abuse, but I was spanked many times with a belt and no bruises were left.
2013-02-26 02:49:53 PM
1 votes:

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: As I understood the article, they weren't recording the skype session (probably something they put forth "permission slip" they have parents sign), and while several of them witnessed it there was no recording - they only got some crappy secondary recording via their cell phones.


Would you want a bunch of recordings of kids in their hones to be stored on your hard drive?
2013-02-26 02:44:46 PM
1 votes:

Loreweaver: IRQ12:
The point was that the "violent screams" isn't really a good gauge of abuse, especially to a bunch of manchilds playing on the computer.

Ahh, so THE POINT IS that you think the introduction of a belt automatically becomes a "beating" just like the article would want you to think.  The police investigated and found no reason for arrest or referral to CPS, something they are more than willing to do if they suspect abuse.  ".

I've always felt that the cops and CPS aren't as willing to do as everyone says. Case in point, my last stepfather pulled a loaded gun on us kids and my mother one evening, while in a drunken rage, and he was never charged. He threatened to kill us at gunpoint, and no one lifted a God-damned finger when it was reported.

Why? Because it was his word against the neighbors, my mom was too terrified to speak out against him, and as a minor, my testimony didn't count. After that incident, I chose to go live with my biological father. My younger sisters weren't so lucky, and had to ensure another two years of abuse as that asshole got away with it.


I think I see your problem. Your POS mom is just as guilty as the asshole she kept around to beat you up.
2013-02-26 02:34:10 PM
1 votes:
They had this on the news last night.  The local NBC studio had audio of the "incedent".  Although they did not share video of the incedent, it really sounds like much more than a simple spankin.

If you are hitting your child in rage, then it 'mght' not be dicipline you're handing out.
2013-02-26 02:03:15 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: IRQ12: Ahh, so THE POINT IS that you think the introduction of a belt automatically becomes a "beating" just like the article would want you to think.

The police investigated and found no reason for arrest or referral to CPS, something they are more than willing to do if they suspect abuse.

Yeah, having been subject to bullshiat beatings as a kid for stuff I didn't do, I DO think so.

Sorry, not necessarily. Otherwise, we wouldn't keep running into stories where the cops had been at a house dozens of times before the kid ends up dead from abuse.

Glad that someone who has never experienced abuse was able to chime in ans an "expert" though.


This kid is being "beat" (spanked with a belt for us less dramatic people) for something he did do, repeatedly.
These stories we are running into are generally failing in the CPS system not the police turning a blind eye to actual abuse.
Glad another internet person acts as if they are the only snowflake in the world who has experienced abuse and uses that as some sort of appeal to authority,  though.  I'm no expert but I certainly know the difference between a spanking and abuse.

I also believe spanking is lazy parenting but I think it's probably less damaging than the hyper sensitive BS parenting that seems to be the norm.
2013-02-26 01:44:35 PM
1 votes:
IRQ12:
The point was that the "violent screams" isn't really a good gauge of abuse, especially to a bunch of manchilds playing on the computer.

Ahh, so THE POINT IS that you think the introduction of a belt automatically becomes a "beating" just like the article would want you to think.  The police investigated and found no reason for arrest or referral to CPS, something they are more than willing to do if they suspect abuse.  ".


I've always felt that the cops and CPS aren't as willing to do as everyone says. Case in point, my last stepfather pulled a loaded gun on us kids and my mother one evening, while in a drunken rage, and he was never charged. He threatened to kill us at gunpoint, and no one lifted a God-damned finger when it was reported.

Why? Because it was his word against the neighbors, my mom was too terrified to speak out against him, and as a minor, my testimony didn't count. After that incident, I chose to go live with my biological father. My younger sisters weren't so lucky, and had to ensure another two years of abuse as that asshole got away with it.
2013-02-26 01:44:13 PM
1 votes:
On my fifth birthday, I was being a little brat. I wasn't playing with my guests properly, I wasn't sharing, I was talking back and being demanding, just being a little poopy five year old.

My parents warned me several times to play nice and be a good girl or I was going to get a spanking. I didn't listen. I was too over-excited to obey. Finally, my dad took hold of me and brought me into my room and told me to raise my dress and pull down my panties while he took off his belt.

I started laughing.

He asked why I was laughing.

I said, "I'm waiting for your pants to fall down!"

He smiled and put his belt back through the loops of his pants, asked me solemnly if I thought I could behave and be a proper hostess to my party guests so that *everyone* could have a good time, not just me. I realized what I'd been doing, so replied that I was sorry and I would behave.

That was the first and only time I was threatened with a belt. My mom's wooden spoon, however...

/was not abused
//did not abuse my kid
///no wooden spoons used in my house
2013-02-26 01:43:16 PM
1 votes:

Publikwerks: He had to know that he was not supposed to play with things in the dishwasher. So, he got spanked.


Just as many children learn that by having it explained to them. You're never going to convince anyone violence has to be used. You just choose to use it.
2013-02-26 01:39:30 PM
1 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: There's not really any ambiguity there. Violence and force are tools of the ignorant.



"Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms."
Robert Anson Heinlein

Just making a point.
2013-02-26 01:38:10 PM
1 votes:

Citrate1007: Take the power cord,  not that difficult.


CSB time:  When my brother and I were younger, my parents bought a new TV and gave us the "old" TV to use.  We'd be grounded from it from time to time, but we always found a way to watch it.  My father apparently got the bright idea to put on a power cord lock...which was promptly defeated by a set of house keys.  He then severed the plug off of the cord, which was promptly spliced with another plug from a power cord in a box of spare cords.  This severing and splicing happened 3 or 4 times, before he finally cut the cord off all of the way up to the circuit board.  We didn't feel like soldering on a new cord, so the TV sat in the basement for years like that (we'd moved on to buying our own stuff).

What's still funny to me to this day?  It was his farking TV that he was screwing up!

/CSB
2013-02-26 01:35:45 PM
1 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: Publikwerks: And generalizations are the sign of a sharp intellect.

There's not really any ambiguity there. Violence and force are tools of the ignorant. Like the person trying to hammer a square peg into a circular hole.


There are situations where spankings are appropriate. I usually like to be more inventive with punishments, because I have read the studies where they have said that it can lead to more anti social behavior. But this has lead me to believe that moderation is the key.

An example -  My son, before he was talking, was walking around when I was doing the dishes, and grabbed a knife out of the dishwasher. I took the knife away from him, and spanked him.

Now, our house is pretty child safe(no place is perfectly child safe), and the only reason he got in there was that I was putting some plates away, so my back was turned for maybe 3-5 seconds. but, on this, there is no room for mixed signals. He had to know that he was not supposed to play with things in the dishwasher. So, he got spanked.
2013-02-26 01:35:33 PM
1 votes:
NotCSB:
About three months after I moved into my current apartment, I started hearing god-awful screaming matches coming from the apartment across the hall. Nine times out of ten it was an adult female shouting all manner of obscenities at some young girls (9 or 10 years old); the other time it was an adult female and adult male doing the same. It was like clockwork for a while: Sunday morning, 9a-noon, screams. I started setting my clocks to it.

One week I heard the girls screaming louder than normally. They were in the hall of the apartment building begging to be let back in. "We're hungry," they said. After a few rounds of no response, there was a loud noise and the girls BOLTED out of the building in terror. They weren't back for a good hour or two, at which point they were let in... and the screaming got worse. I saw most of their pleas through my door peephole.

I was faced with a dilemma at that point. I'd seen the girls hanging out in front of the building on occasion, and I was genial. I was also a rather sketchy-looking dude whose apartment is filled with cartoons and video games, so I knew that if I offered the girls safe haven it was gonna look... really, really not like what it was intended to be. So, I was resolved to call the police and let them handle it...

...except that, unfortunately, I know how abusers think. If they are called out on their actions, their first and only instinct is to say that the victim is at fault for the negative repercussions. "You were so bad that the cops came," the abuser will say, "and next time they come back, you're gonna get it." This creates the wonderful feeling of being unable to trust reasonable authority-- yeah, some amount of skepticism is always healthy, but there's that and then there's being taught that there is NEVER anyone who will help you if you are truly in danger. I realized that if I did call the police, I could potentially be making those girls' lives worse.

A week later when the woman dropped the F bomb on the girls twenty-eight times in five minutes, I called the cops. They came, they talked to me, and then they talked to the man and woman across the hall.

I never saw the girls again, and never heard the screaming after that. I asked the landlord about it a couple months later and she said the girls got sent to a grandparent's house, but I'm not entirely sure I believe it.
2013-02-26 01:31:59 PM
1 votes:

IRQ12: Ahh, so THE POINT IS that you think the introduction of a belt automatically becomes a "beating" just like the article would want you to think.


Yeah, having been subject to bullshiat beatings as a kid for stuff I didn't do, I DO think so.

The police investigated and found no reason for arrest or referral to CPS, something they are more than willing to do if they suspect abuse.

Sorry, not necessarily. Otherwise, we wouldn't keep running into stories where the cops had been at a house dozens of times before the kid ends up dead from abuse.

Glad that someone who has never experienced abuse was able to chime in ans an "expert" though.
2013-02-26 01:27:14 PM
1 votes:

Publikwerks: And generalizations are the sign of a sharp intellect.


There's not really any ambiguity there. Violence and force are tools of the ignorant. Like the person trying to hammer a square peg into a circular hole.
2013-02-26 01:18:09 PM
1 votes:

dragonchild: Loreweaver: Another way to tell the difference: A "proper" spanking should be only hard enough to string for a minute or two. If the punishment leaves a mark, welt, cut, or bruise of any kind, you are guilty of child abuse.

That's a hell of a litmus test.  I'm not a fan of corporal punishment (my father had a hot temper), but it's not like kids can't get worse injuries just romping around.


I'm not a fan of it either, and neither was my father. We both agree that a responsible parent needs to find other means of punishment, but that sometimes a spanking is warranted. However, he always advocated that if you must spank, *never* use a belt or other discipline device, and *never* hit in anger. The point is to make the child aware that "they done farked up"; not to take out your own frustrations on the child.
2013-02-26 01:14:28 PM
1 votes:
If you have to use physical harm to make your children obedient you fail as a parent, and are probably bad at reasoning with people in general.

Only stupid people resort to violence when it isn't self defense.
2013-02-26 01:11:35 PM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: I got whipped with belts, switches, and buggy whips as a kid.

Kids these days are in for a shock when they have to deal with reality.
Probably why so may returning vets are offing themselves.


In what reality does an adult get beaten with a whip for not turning off their computer when told?

Also, so we're clear, your position is that returning war veterans are suicidal not because of the horrors of war, but because they weren't beaten enough as children?
2013-02-26 01:10:23 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: WTF are those people doing chatting with kids online while disguised as a cartoon elf?


Sigh, FTFA:
For Christmas, they came up with an animated elf named Herby. Via Skype, Herby talked live with patients in hospitals and families at home, making even the sickest kids smile.
2013-02-26 01:07:32 PM
1 votes:
WTF are those people doing chatting with kids online while disguised as a cartoon elf?
2013-02-26 12:57:55 PM
1 votes:

IRQ12: Mikey1969: IRQ12: Also, I don't know the exact situation from the article but I do know a kid can scream like they are being tortured to death because they only got 3 scoops of ice cream.

Except that the people on Skype saw someone swinging a belt at the kid, not taking away his ice cream.

Welp someone saw a belt that means it was abuse!

The point was that the "violent screams" isn't really a good gauge of abuse, especially to a bunch of manchilds playing on the computer.


The point IS that beating the kid with a belt is completely over the line. Especially if he's just getting on the computer. Don't want him to get on the computer? Then act like a parent and make yourself aware of what your farking kid is doing. Beating a kid with a belt is the last step you should take, and if you DO use it, it should be for situations where the kid has actually done something that endangered someone else's life. Getting on the computer isn't justification for beating a kid with a belt, which is what the watchers saw, not just "someone with a belt".
2013-02-26 12:48:38 PM
1 votes:

profplump: pkellmey: This is something that the local police, like in this case, can probably handle better than an Internet presence.

Is there some reason we need regional standard for "child abuse"?


Yes, there is. Considering that The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA), as amended by the Keeping Children and Families Safe Act of 2003, defines child abuse and neglect as, at minimum:
Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; orAn act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.Physical punishment, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child.

There are other laws in many areas that may add to these minimums that may not be known by someone watching it on the Internet, which is why it probably should be handled by legal personnel.
2013-02-26 12:40:36 PM
1 votes:

FarkinHostile: profplump: Couldn't we solve that problem simply by making child welfare checks a standard part of children's lives, just like dental and medical care?


As if child welfare agencies aren't already up to their necks checking on actual abused children. As if such a proposal would be accepted by law abiding parents without a farking riot. As if governmental interference and bureaucracy ever solve anything.

Are you out of your mind? Routine child welfare checks on over 60 million children...ridiculous.


I've called to report abuse... I learned that unless it is broken bones or stitches they don't do anything.  Because they are too busy with the ones that end up in the ER to handle the things before they end up in the being that bad.

Reporting things like rug burns and bruises from being drug across a floor, 30 pound kid 300 pound parent. Being aborted would have been those kids only chance to not live in misery. Do what I can...
2013-02-26 12:38:09 PM
1 votes:

MadCat221: You folks do realize that by revealing that he is just a troll, you are mitigating the possibility of troll-induced inflammation in responders, right?


This is why we can't have nice things.

:(
2013-02-26 12:33:43 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: Funny how people change, isn't it?


They don't change. Only the masks do.
2013-02-26 12:31:03 PM
1 votes:

zippyZRX: hell 1/2 of you are below average...truth is from the comments on fark...Almost all of you are below average both in intelligence and in earning power.



Regardless of your stance on the topic, asserting highly literate people with access to computers to be both below average intelligence and earning power doesn't speak well for your own intellectual prowess.


Just sayin'.
2013-02-26 12:28:35 PM
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: However, I was also beaten for stuff like accidently knocking over my glass of milk at dinner.


So I've mentioned on these pages before that my adoptive parents were evil shiats, I even talked about some of the beatings I got on this very thread. Ironic part, though? The guy who beat my mother to death did the same bullshiat, and things started out hunky-dory with my adoptive parents. I remember a year or two after I was adopted, I was down in the basement, putting groceries away in the pantry, and I dropped a 6-pack full of soda on the floor, breaking all of the bottles and making a mess. I came up the stairs fully in tears because I was sure that I was going to get my ass beat in 6 different directions, and I was terrified. My aunt(Adoptive mom) was sweet and nice and explained that accidents happen, no muss, no fuss, and that we would just clean it up and everything would be good. 3 years later, she's the interrogator while my adoptive father beats me with a belt until I "admit" to taking things around the house that not only did I never touch, but probably didn't exist in the first place.

Funny how people change, isn't it? Suddenly, getting beaten for breaking the sodas wasn't so far out of the realm of possibility anymore...
2013-02-26 12:26:34 PM
1 votes:

umad: mafiageek1980: /and yes, I am one of those who think "Violence doesn't solve the problem" in ANY form

I agree. Child abusers don't deserve anything more than a stern talking to. All violence bad, even government violence.


Child Abusers deserve prison time and to be castrated/tubes tied/banned from adopting kids/ to where they can't have kids to abuse!
2013-02-26 12:24:08 PM
1 votes:
This sickens me. There is a VAST difference between spanking and abuse. what this kid was getting was abuse.
2013-02-26 12:22:24 PM
1 votes:
Sounds like to me some folks think they can tell others how to raise their children.
Good on the police they investigated and found that no the boy was not behaving and was learning that there are consequences for his actions.

If MORE people raised their children rather then do the kinder/gentler (but not worth a damn for raising a child to be a responsible adult) then we would be in a much better country.

In stead we have the FARK idiots who think the people who make videos for kids should be held as a standard for how to raise children.  Jeez....is it really so hard to understand that little bit of spanking with a belt....which obviously did not harm the child as the child was able to meet with police directly and even admitted he deserved the spanking.  Are you people really this FARKING stupid..oh wait of course you are.....hell 1/2 of you are below average...truth is from the comments on fark...Almost all of you are below average both in intelligence and in earning power.

Pathetic...and good on the Dad......more kids need to be spanked.  And a lot of you farkers need one too.
2013-02-26 11:48:15 AM
1 votes:
I was spanked with a belt until prolly the 'tweens' age.  It wasn't very regular, and it was never in anger.  Getting the belt was a well understood and communicated result of bad behaviour in my family.  Basically one got several warnings to correct said behaviour and if it didn't stop, then the belt was the result.  Later, and only a few smacks from Dad. There was always crying and no one wanted the belt, but I can assure you it kept us within our family's rules.  More often than not, just the explicit warning about the belt was enough for us.

As always there is a scale and degree to these things.  If this was seen multiple times during one night by these guys as in the article, lasting many minutes, I'd call that abuse.  Likewise, if he was just generally being beaten vs say, being spanked on the butt.
2013-02-26 11:36:49 AM
1 votes:
The issue here is the parents' freedom to raise their kids in how they see fit vs. protecting the rights of the children.  The way I see it is that you will have a lot tougher time getting people to submit to bureaucratic checks into raising their children, because they created their children, they are THEIRS--while a spouse or even a pet was created by someone else.
2013-02-26 11:36:48 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: strangeluck: Asinine tag for the cops for not hauling the dad in temporarily and making sure the kid was actually okay by taking him to a hospital and speaking with a social worker.

No.

A million times no.

*knock knock*

"Sir, someone from halfway across the country called us and said they were talking to your son on the Internet and they heard him screaming. Therefore, on those grounds alone, we're taking you in for questioning and we're going to scare the living sh*t out of the kid by forcing him to watch his dad hauled away from him in the middle of the night and some strange lady will come in and ask him a bunch of questions but not answer any of his about where his dad is or what the hell is going on."

When I was 4 years old, my family went through a false accusation of child abuse by a vindictive neighbor, angry that my parents had called the cops because of their excessive partying (I'm not talking just noise, but two people farking on our back porch kind of partying). The "investigation" involved, among other things, the police demanding that my parents remove their child's clothing to show proof that no crime had been committed. (Yes, the cops demanded to see my bare naked ass.) As a result of the lawsuit my parents filed, the law was permanently changed in my birth state with a clause bearing my family's last name.

I would ask that anyone posting to this thread with legal training that recognizes this case from my somewhat vague description please do not post the name; I like my semi-anonimity here.

I will fight to my last breath against a society in which what you believe should have happened, could EVER happen to another child like me. The cops did their job in this case, unlike the ones that visited me that night.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of excessively spanking a child, and I hope that one day we will progress as a society to the parental education level necessary for the practice of corporal punishment to be the exception rather th ...


Hitting a child with a belt goes far beyond a mere spanking. It's now a beating, and I speak as someone who was frequently beaten with a belt as a child. Sometimes I deserved to be punished, but with spanking, not a beating with a belt because I had been naughty. However, I was also beaten for stuff like accidently knocking over my glass of milk at dinner.
2013-02-26 11:17:07 AM
1 votes:
spanking your kid is child abuse
2013-02-26 11:13:33 AM
1 votes:

profplump: Couldn't we solve that problem simply by making child welfare checks a standard part of children's lives, just like dental and medical care?


So I'm raising my kids and grandkids right, only if someone from the govt comes over routinely and says its OK?

How about no. Does that work for you?
2013-02-26 11:08:59 AM
1 votes:

profplump: Couldn't we solve that problem simply by making child welfare checks a standard part of children's lives, just like dental and medical care?


Um, how about FARK NO - having a cavity is not a crime, getting a cold does send your parents to prison (or do you want that too?)  Don't even try to equate checking for cavities to checking for a crime.

I don't to EVER live in your world.
2013-02-26 11:06:50 AM
1 votes:
FTFA:

Police there took a report and went to investigate, but filed no charges.

"They interviewed the gentleman," Daubert said. "He said, yes, he was disciplining the boy for being on the computer. The boy said he was on computer when he shouldn't have been, and said he deserved to be punished, and it was left at that."


He should have just shot the compu---

No, I can't snark. Not about this.

They got Skype audio and video of the kid being beaten, and the sperm donor admitting it to the police, and NO FARKING CHANGES FILES?

/goddammitsomuch
2013-02-26 11:06:07 AM
1 votes:
I've yet to have occasion to spank my kid.  Of course he's just naturally a good, helpful kid with natural poor impulse control.  I understand that kids, well he's still a toddler even, will do shiat just because poor impulse control  I have a friend who has commented that it seems like she's always having to spank her kid who is only a few months older than my kid.  I confess to being a bit of a snob about it and wonder if her kid is really that difficult or if the spankings are making the kid more difficult.  Could be one of those "if the only tool you have is a hammer" sorts of thing.  I'm glad my kid seems to work with my method so far, what ever the case.
2013-02-26 11:03:19 AM
1 votes:

profplump: Couldn't we solve that problem simply by making child welfare checks a standard part of children's lives, just like dental and medical care?



As if child welfare agencies aren't already up to their necks checking on actual abused children. As if such a proposal would be accepted by law abiding parents without a farking riot. As if governmental interference and bureaucracy ever solve anything.

Are you out of your mind? Routine child welfare checks on over 60 million children...ridiculous.
2013-02-26 10:54:04 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: use for the foreseeable future for the simple reason that it works


I appreciate your long and thoughtful posts in this thread, and hope that they're going to inspire many additional interesting posts, but I have to say...

... sure as shiat seems like it *doesn't* work, if the kid is getting beaten repeatedly on the same night for the same transgression, you know?

I like to think that we could live in a world where "violence isn't the answer!", but acknowledge that sometimes it is.  I just don't know if it has any place in disciplining another living creature, especially one that is quite literally incapable of defending itself.
2013-02-26 10:47:08 AM
1 votes:

spentmiles: I look forward to the day when this unspanked crop of kids grows up into self-serving, unemployable sociopaths.  To all of the anti-spanking parents: have a great time living with, supporting, and cleaning up after your child for the rest of your life.  I wouldn't make any retirement plans.  You aren't going to have any money after paying the lawyers to get Junior out of his sixth DUI.  And don't forget to blame everyone but yourself when you realize you dislike your own child.

I feel angry-sick when I see a kid on the playground push another kid down.  His mother, who's always two steps away, gets down on her knees and explains to the little brat how were supposed to be polite and orderly.  Then she musses his hair and sends him off, having taught him nothing.  Worse case, he's got to go sit on a bench for a few minutes by himself.  Yeah, because self-reflection and isolation are punishments.  It's face palming idiocy at its worst.

Not spanking is child abuse.  The child will grow up with far more mental and emotional scars if he isn't spanked and firmly disciplined.  And when did bruising become abuse?  I'm not talking about blacking the kids eyes or anything, but there should be discolored marks on the buttocks and thighs - IT'S A SPANKING FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.  You want the kid to remember the lesson for longer than the actual spanking, right?  Even parents who spank go too lightly these days.  And all because they're afraid of some bleeding heart reporting them to child services.

But go right ahead and raise your three foot facsimile of your pussy.  The world really needs more pussies and cry babies.  There's just not enough.  Pieces of shiat.


This might be the most trolltastic one yet spent. Looking forward to seeing the responses.
2013-02-26 10:41:47 AM
1 votes:
That's pretty sad. Poor kid.
 
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