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(CNN)   By clicking this link, you agree to the terms and conditions that AT&T pretty much owns your wallet   (money.cnn.com) divider line 47
    More: Obvious, CSCO, Wireless LAN, monetization, Mobile World Congress, Ralph de la Vega, Onstar, U-verse  
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4237 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Feb 2013 at 8:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-25 08:08:59 PM
I clicked the link and only agree to pay for my landline, tvym. Wireless hot spots wont work at my location, and I would never have a contract with a mobile carrier, so your headline is invalid and I should get a case of good ale for each word in said headline. By reading this post, you have agreed to my terms.
 
2013-02-25 08:10:52 PM
But watch out for big government, stupid libs.
 
2013-02-25 08:17:37 PM
So, if something farks up, and they shut off your service, it isn't just one service, it's everything. Some of us don't mind paying two or three different bills.
 
2013-02-25 08:26:00 PM
Why the fark would I agree to give AT&T anything?
 
2013-02-25 08:33:40 PM
"Don't give up on technology innovators," said de la Vega. "As we've seen major technology shifts in the past five years, from 2G to 3G to 4G, the the cost per megabyte has always come down. We have to make these services affordable for customers, or else it will be impossible to use them."

Yeah, right. Pants on fire.
 
2013-02-25 08:34:06 PM
danesecooper.blogs.com
 
2013-02-25 08:35:19 PM
I dropped AT&T Friday and I am now a contract-free cell user.

They weren't bad, I route most of my calls, text and Internet use through wifi.

Now I'm paying per minute, per text and per megabyte but only for non-wifi usage.
 
2013-02-25 08:39:05 PM
Mobile cellular carriers will substantially need to reduce the cost of bandwidth and device connections for this utopian world of connected devices to exist.  As it stands, it is fairly prohibitive.

I suspect that per-device fees will radically drop if the FCC or FTC gets their arse into action and extends net neutrality rules from the 700MHz bloc to the rest of the wireless spectrum.  When you are competing with free tethering and hotspot software, it is hard to justify your costs.

And hopefully new RF whitespace rules might result in new wireless MANs sprouting up.
 
2013-02-25 08:41:11 PM
Oh, and the second that Ting becomes a MVNO for a network other than Sprint, I will never have a contract with a mega-carrier again.
 
2013-02-25 08:50:09 PM
TracFone, ftw.
 
2013-02-25 09:05:51 PM
Ahhh, the old adage "get them hooked, then hook them..."

Sorry, mobile data is only truly "mobile" if I am back in the woods where I know there isn't a hotspot, and even then I will NOT be activating said hotspot anyway (or using data for anything but the most prosaic of uses.)

Data price is dropping, therefore they need to find another revenue stream to capitalize on (and drive yet more users away from their service.)

I wonder how long before they try to make NAT illegal (like comcast did in the 90s-2ks to prevent "unauthorized" devices from being on the network)  http://yro.slashdot.org/story/02/01/24/1957236/comcast-gunning-for-na t -users
as a way to "validate and secure the internet... for the children...."

Sorry, the Rock is smelling what they are cooking, and it smells like shiat.
 
2013-02-25 09:47:52 PM

Bio-nic: I wonder how long before they try to make NAT illegal


It would most likely never be made illegal for residential Internet, but they could ban it under terms of service.  Then it essentially becomes a game of cat and mouse.

The Slashdot article you linked included a number of hints that an ISP could use, such as decremented TTLs, sequence number guessing and other OS fingerprints.  I've also read several reports that mobile carriers will snoop for the User-Agent string in unencrypted HTTP headers.  Using a layer 5 proxy such as SOCKS might be able to hide some of that, since the SOCKS server is building a new TCP connection on its external side.  Using a layer 7 proxy might be able to hide even more, since it can completely rebuild the HTTP headers.  Or you could just go for broke and encrypt and/or encapsulate everything between your private network and some point beyond your ISP (there are commercial proxy services out there specifically for when you don't trust your ISP).

Going into armchair lawyer mode here, but it might be possible to unite the Internet dweebs and dorks of your state to register an initiative banning the practice, save for the possibility that federal law trumps such regulation.
 
2013-02-25 09:52:00 PM
But first they have to convince the public that they really need all of this crap.
 
2013-02-25 10:01:50 PM
All your financial base are belong to us
 
2013-02-25 10:09:31 PM
This is why the Internet shouldn't be trusted to corporations.  How much money did we give them for dark fiber, only to be stuck on an average of 6M bps for the common user?

Corporations cannot handle something as broad as the Internet.
 
2013-02-25 10:43:32 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: This is why the Internet shouldn't be trusted to corporations.  How much money did we give them for dark fiber, only to be stuck on an average of 6M bps for the common user?

Corporations cannot handle something as broad as the Internet.


Correct. And yet, hilariously enough, during the Net Neutrality argument, these companies put out cynical advertisements loaded with scare words about the big bad GOVERNMENT coming for your Internet, when all the innocent little corporations want to do is make it better!

I wouldn't shed a tear if all of their CEOs keeled over tomorrow.
 
2013-02-25 11:03:53 PM
"Everyone is going to be impacted by this sooner rather than later," said de la Vega.

Sorry but no. Some of us can manage quite fine without having every aspect of our lives connected to the internet.

I don't have GPS or onstar in my car yet I manage to drive it every day and can get from here to there without getting lost.  I don't own a smartphone but I manage to stay connected andcommunicate with people when I need to.

Half of that crap in that article sounds utterly ridiculous to me, if you need a pill bottle to send you an email letting you know it's time to take it, you have issues far worse than your health problems.

People who can't spend a few hours away from their home without accessing the internet need to seek serious psychological care.
 
2013-02-25 11:17:05 PM
PRAISE JEBUS!

I was soooo worried that one guy wasn't getting sleep at night after missing the opportunity to gouge customers for SMS messages!

Dodged a bullet, there ATT...
 
2013-02-25 11:17:33 PM

JolobinSmokin: But watch out for big government, stupid libs.


Isn't it the conservatives that are opposed to big government?
 
2013-02-25 11:33:53 PM

Neondistraction: JolobinSmokin: But watch out for big government, stupid libs.

Isn't it the conservatives that are opposed to big government?


Yes but the Rapeublicans don't have a single conservative left
 
2013-02-25 11:38:12 PM

Dinjiin: Bio-nic: I wonder how long before they try to make NAT illegal

It would most likely never be made illegal for residential Internet, but they could ban it under terms of service.  Then it essentially becomes a game of cat and mouse.

The Slashdot article you linked included a number of hints that an ISP could use, such as decremented TTLs, sequence number guessing and other OS fingerprints.  I've also read several reports that mobile carriers will snoop for the User-Agent string in unencrypted HTTP headers.  Using a layer 5 proxy such as SOCKS might be able to hide some of that, since the SOCKS server is building a new TCP connection on its external side.  Using a layer 7 proxy might be able to hide even more, since it can completely rebuild the HTTP headers.  Or you could just go for broke and encrypt and/or encapsulate everything between your private network and some point beyond your ISP (there are commercial proxy services out there specifically for when you don't trust your ISP).

Going into armchair lawyer mode here, but it might be possible to unite the Internet dweebs and dorks of your state to register an initiative banning the practice, save for the possibility that federal law trumps such regulation.


The other white elephant in this particular room is IPv4/6

ISPs really have -zero- incentive to go to IPv6 as it removes a very strong control from the ISP to "engender" fair play on businesses side.  With a finite (and becoming moreso) number of IPv4 public IPs available, many ISPs will probably start reclaiming stale / unused blocks or even class C blocks for resale value.

The FCC needs to put their foot down in this country and mandate IPv6 compliance - something like 80 - 90% of current gen routers/switches can support it(every major ISP already has the layer 2/3 set up operate it), as well as every modern OS in the last 20 years.

 It will never happen however because there's just too big a market of limited supply as far as IPv4 is concerned.

The argument isn't less or more data usage, that's a capacity problem which has been solved for many years(there's between 60 - 80% copper broadband penetration in the US at this time) - the problem now is you have greedy businesses that "didn't catch the wave" or monetize every little thing with wireline internet access and therefore double down on the derp with wireless...
 
2013-02-25 11:46:32 PM
AT&T, we were friends once, I even work for you back int he day, but you tried to rob me in the middle of the night once So we had to breakup it was harsh but you will never see another dime of my money as long as I live.
 
2013-02-25 11:46:53 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: This is why the Internet shouldn't be trusted to corporations.  How much money did we give them for dark fiber, only to be stuck on an average of 6M bps for the common user?

Corporations cannot handle something as broad as the Internet.


The problem is that the government really cannot either.  Too many times it has shown it's desire to stamp down comms at the very slightest provocation for any reason

http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2011/news20110812.aspx

"The Internet's" major US interconnects need to be run by a non profit, NGO who's members are fully vested engineering and trade veterans who have NO financial incentive to run the corporation.  It should cost taxpayer money, yes, but it shouldn't be running for profit, nor should it report to a bureaucratic nightmare like the FCC has become.

It should provide these interconnects and peering to all the T0 providers - both wireless and wireline.- remove the biggest "cost of plant" from the corporate coffers and suddenly they lose a LOT of their teeth to set policy.

/for reference, I remember 20 years ago when the FCC was a technical standard keeper for the government and actually tried to police you know, technical issues.... not nipple slips
 
2013-02-26 12:00:12 AM
Shiat like this makes me glad I'm currently grandfathered into Verizon's Unlimited Data plan. As far as I know, as long as I purchase my phones for the full price, I get to keep it.

As of now, I'm paying about $60/month for unlimited data, so including buying a new phone myself every couple of years at $599, my total 2-year cost is ~$2,040, give or take with taxes.
If I was to pay for the data I use, and get a phone for the reduced price, I'm looking at an 8GB monthly cost ($90) plus the smartphone data charge ($40), so over two years it'll be $3,320 including a new phone at $199. And that is if I never go over my limit... there's been times where I've pumped almost 20GB through, for example when New England had that massive power outage for a week a half, my phone became the source of internet for me and the gf at the time.Christ... a 20GB plan would be $150/month through Verizon...

That, and I don't have to deal with early cancellation fees and the like, since I "brought my own equipment". Don't see myself replacing my Bionic anytime soon, though.
 
2013-02-26 12:03:13 AM

alienated: "Don't give up on technology innovators," said de la Vega. "As we've seen major technology shifts in the past five years, from 2G to 3G to 4G, the the cost per megabyte has always come down. We have to make these services affordable for customers, or else it will be impossible to use them."

Yeah, right. Pants on fire.


And we're done. We're the Alabama of the civilized world when it comes to not just wireless connectivity, but Internet connectivity in general. Want to be horrified? Do a bit of Internet research and find out how much money you (and by "you", I mean "the federal government") has given to AT&T, and just about every other major carrier, to expand connectivity and capacity over the last 20 years - and then find out how little they actually spent on doing that.
 
2013-02-26 12:06:23 AM

RoxtarRyan: Don't see myself replacing my Bionic anytime soon, though.


Thank you!
 
2013-02-26 12:39:58 AM

alienated: I clicked the link and only agree to pay for my landline, tvym. Wireless hot spots wont work at my location, and I would never have a contract with a mobile carrier, so your headline is invalid and I should get a case of good ale for each word in said headline. By reading this post, you have agreed to my terms.


wow, you are one PROUD luddite.   Maybe you guys should have a parade or something.
 
2013-02-26 01:23:03 AM
but i have tracfone
 
kab
2013-02-26 01:33:13 AM
"Customers will have to pay AT&T for all the new gadgets they'll be connecting and all the new services the company will be providing."

Oh, I'll most definitely be skipping out on that.  Thanks for playing though.
 
2013-02-26 01:37:50 AM

Bio-nic: ISPs really have -zero- incentive to go to IPv6 as it removes a very strong control from the ISP to "engender" fair play on businesses side. With a finite (and becoming moreso) number of IPv4 public IPs available, many ISPs will probably start reclaiming stale / unused blocks or even class C blocks for resale value.


As a participant in my employer's IPv4-to-IPv6 transition team, I'm getting a kick out of this.

I do foresee ISPs trying to squeeze their customers regarding increasingly valuable IPv4 addresses. But eventually, customers will see the financial benefits of jumping over to IPv6. If their ISP won't supply them with IPv6 blocs, there are plenty of ISPs that do.

My own employer is ditching IPv4 as fast as it can. It has seen several large mergers and has come to the conclusion that merging RFC1918 networks seriously sucks ass. But buying a couple more /12 networks for data centers, satellite offices and branch locations isn't exactly a cheap option. So except for a legacy zone in the perimeter DMZ, most everything is getting an IPv6 address. Specifically, the inbound server load-balancers and outbound proxies in the DMZ will run dual-stack on their external interfaces, but everything else in the DMZ and internal networks is going IPv6.

I expect that as IPv4 blocks are freed up, the company is going to sell them off. Since my employer isn't the only large company doing this, there will be a steady supply of IPv4 addresses out there. This will put something of a ceiling on the cost of IPv4 addresses until it slowly dies off.
 
2013-02-26 03:24:10 AM

I sound fat: alienated: I clicked the link and only agree to pay for my landline, tvym. Wireless hot spots wont work at my location, and I would never have a contract with a mobile carrier, so your headline is invalid and I should get a case of good ale for each word in said headline. By reading this post, you have agreed to my terms.

wow, you are one PROUD luddite.   Maybe you guys should have a parade or something.


No, not at all. I am a proud early adopter, and a master of fishing. 18 cases per word- I think that I am up to 23 cases of ale, and i didna submit this. I was actually kinda astounded seeing this green w/ zero comments so quick after it went into the queue, but it made semse that it did.
when can i expect your case of Ale ?
 
2013-02-26 03:26:48 AM
A year earlier, the company showed off pill bottles that send text messages to remind people to take their medications.

What the f*ck? REALLY!!?? How insanely stupid can people be?

I have a nifty little stash of OTC drugz here for a couple month's worth of unpleasant gastric troubles, exactly one container of which is sitting six inches away from my monitor PRACTICALLY RIGHT IN MY FACE and it is not EVER gonna goddamn e-mail me because LOLwhoops remembering to eat small round items that keep my guts from turning into an oozing eldritch gateway for the Elder Gods is so very haaaaaard.

/run-on sentences however are easy
 
2013-02-26 03:33:07 AM

Kittypie070: /run-on sentences however are easy


they are. we dont have to worry about those pill bottles as its in the futture or past, but not us. Be well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw   nsfw shiiping off to boston to fins my leg
 
2013-02-26 03:42:35 AM
I swear, it's not gonna be the warfighting robots that kill us off, it's gonna be our god damn innumerable bullsh*tgadgets that do us in.

www.totalleh.com

*moshes to Dropkick Murphys*
/hooray for agglutinative grammatical structures
 
2013-02-26 06:09:17 AM

Kittypie070: I swear, it's not gonna be the warfighting robots that kill us off, it's gonna be our god damn innumerable bullsh*tgadgets that do us in.

[www.totalleh.com image 280x280]

*moshes to Dropkick Murphys*
/hooray for agglutinative grammatical structures


hahaha . well played
 
2013-02-26 06:12:31 AM
 
2013-02-26 06:24:08 AM

Dinjiin: Oh, and the second that Ting becomes a MVNO for a network other than Sprint, I will never have a contract with a mega-carrier again.


Is this stealth marketing?

This is the 2nd time in the last week some farker has been saying how great Ting is. I don't remember if it what you the first time I saw it.

I don't really have an opinion about Ting yet. I've barely even heard of them. It sounds like a good deal, but the last time I had Sprint (which is apparently what Ting uses) they told me I shouldn't expect to get any reception when I was indoors.

Back then their stated position was that cell phones only worked outdoors.

Verizon charges me out the ass, but I've never had a problem with them.

AT&T used to charge me out the ass and then they tried to rape me.

Seriously AT&T - was it really worth it to fark me over like you did? I never paid you for the bullshiat charges and as a result, I've been paying money to Verizon for the last 10 years instead.
 
2013-02-26 06:28:54 AM

Happy Hours: Verizon charges me out the ass, but I've never had a problem with them.

AT&T used to charge me out the ass and then they tried to rape me.


They'll both ram you up the ass, but Verizon will at least kiss you first.
 
2013-02-26 07:14:37 AM
I'm thinking about GM's decision to have AT&T's service built right into their cars. Do they really think that this is a selling point? If there are 2 equivalent new cars out there, one tied to AT&T and the other open to whoever I chose I'll take the second car. Let me chose my data provider, don't lock me in with the purchase of a car.
 
2013-02-26 07:16:12 AM
404'd
 
2013-02-26 08:30:19 AM

Snuffybud: I'm thinking about GM's decision to have AT&T's service built right into their cars. Do they really think that this is a selling point? If there are 2 equivalent new cars out there, one tied to AT&T and the other open to whoever I chose I'll take the second car. Let me chose my data provider, don't lock me in with the purchase of a car.


Wouldn't it be nice if the carriers just made a good SDR that was put in those cars that was carrier neutral?  Even though the the tech is here and has been for several years?

(for those who don't know)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio

it won't happen, the carriers have everyones nuts on a anvil and have the 10 pound sledge and WILL NOT USE IT UNLESS you happen to squeak about maybe cutting some of that legacy garbage off your cell bill.
 
2013-02-26 09:36:21 AM
So here's my question... My contract is expiring soon with AT&T.  I want to keep my phone and go contract free if at all possible... and for less money.  The bill for what I get is ridiculous.  I had heard about Straight Talk and the like with the unlimited everything for 45 bucks a month or so, but when I do some reading I find out that the "unlimited data" is really just unlimited web surfing.  I can't stream music via my phone, use apps that need the bandwidth, etc...

Suggestions?
 
2013-02-26 10:17:13 AM

Meatschool: So here's my question... My contract is expiring soon with AT&T.  I want to keep my phone and go contract free if at all possible... and for less money.  The bill for what I get is ridiculous.  I had heard about Straight Talk and the like with the unlimited everything for 45 bucks a month or so, but when I do some reading I find out that the "unlimited data" is really just unlimited web surfing.  I can't stream music via my phone, use apps that need the bandwidth, etc...

Suggestions?


unless you use a lot of  talk minutes I've been happy with Tmobile. $30 a month unlimited data and text and 100 voice minutes a month.
 
2013-02-26 11:10:04 AM

Happy Hours: Is this stealth marketing?


I have no affiliation with them.  And as I mentioned earlier, they run atop the Sprint network, which verily sucks in my neck of the woods.  But most everything else about them looks really damn nice.  They are also one of the few MVNOs that not allows you to run non-web data, but allows you to tether.  I was looking at NET10, but their ToS allows for immediate termination of your account and forfeiture of remaining minutes if they catch you streaming music/video. VoIP or if use your phone as a hotspot.
 
2013-02-26 12:11:32 PM

Carth: Meatschool: So here's my question... My contract is expiring soon with AT&T.  I want to keep my phone and go contract free if at all possible... and for less money.  The bill for what I get is ridiculous.  I had heard about Straight Talk and the like with the unlimited everything for 45 bucks a month or so, but when I do some reading I find out that the "unlimited data" is really just unlimited web surfing.  I can't stream music via my phone, use apps that need the bandwidth, etc...

Suggestions?

unless you use a lot of  talk minutes I've been happy with Tmobile. $30 a month unlimited data and text and 100 voice minutes a month.


I use T-Mobile, and it's "unlimited" in the sense that it's severely throttled after you hit your 2gb/mo limit, so that may not be the best option for heavy data usage.
 
2013-02-26 01:13:56 PM

Dinjiin: Happy Hours: Is this stealth marketing?

I have no affiliation with them.  And as I mentioned earlier, they run atop the Sprint network, which verily sucks in my neck of the woods.  But most everything else about them looks really damn nice.  They are also one of the few MVNOs that not allows you to run non-web data, but allows you to tether.  I was looking at NET10, but their ToS allows for immediate termination of your account and forfeiture of remaining minutes if they catch you streaming music/video. VoIP or if use your phone as a hotspot.


I looked into them after they were mentioned before. The prices seem fair and I don't need a lot of minutes or data. The only thing holding me back is that they use Sprint's network.

I'm sure things are better now, but one of the reasons I left Sprint is because their coverage sucked.

Verizon is more expensive - unreasonably so, IMO - but the coverage is awesome. OTOH, I never even come close to using up all my minutes.

Even AT&T coverage sucked when they pissed me off and I left them. One of my last conversations with them involved me asking them for a map of where I could use their service. They could not provide one. And they really didn't seem to care that they couldn't provide one.

AT&T's attitude was we might or might not be able to provide coverage and if we feel like it, you will incur roaming charges because FARK YOU, WE'RE AT&T! AND YOU OWE US $500!

Well, obviously, that's why I will NEVER use AT&T again. And that's why I've been giving Verizon over $800 a year for the past 10 years or so. I hope someone from AT&T notices that. You didn't have to lose me as a customer. Wouldn't it have been more profitable to settle our differences and keep me as a customer?

But no, AT&T was having none of it.

I hope more companies like Ting show up.
 
2013-02-26 02:42:18 PM

Kittypie070: I swear, it's not gonna be the warfighting robots that kill us off, it's gonna be our god damn innumerable bullsh*tgadgets that do us in.

[www.totalleh.com image 280x280]

*moshes to Dropkick Murphys*
/hooray for agglutinative grammatical structures


I saw a woman walk right into a parking meter the other day because she had her nose buried in her cell phone.
 
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