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(Huffington Post)   Student charged with an honor code violation for "intimidating" her rapist by speaking publicly   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 1269
    More: Sick, Chapel Hill, honor code, sex crimes, Office of Civil Rights, Amherst College, art fair, U.S. Department of Education, graduate students  
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28389 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2013 at 10:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-25 06:14:34 PM
I would sue that "Honor Court" for its next generation's worth of budgets.

Going to student court for rape justice is like going to an HOA with a housing discrimination complaint.  Call real cops. Get a real lawyer.
 
2013-02-25 07:18:48 PM
Heaven forbid we should hurt the rapist's fee fees.
 
2013-02-25 07:27:02 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I would sue that "Honor Court" for its next generation's worth of budgets.

Going to student court for rape justice is like going to an HOA with a housing discrimination complaint.  Call real cops. Get a real lawyer.


Done in one.
 
2013-02-25 07:55:22 PM
"Obviously, I'm afraid. I never meant to make anyone mad at me [by speaking out]," Gambill told HuffPost.

Don't be. This will go away in a day or two. Congressional Republicans may not back down when they step in it over rape, but college administrators sure as hell do.
 
2013-02-25 08:04:03 PM
Landen Gambill, a sophomore at UNC, was part of a group that filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse. Ten days after they filed their complaint, the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may have violated the school's Honor Code, Jezebel reports.

yeah, I figured something like this was the real "honor code violation" before I even clicked. She's being punished for making the school look bad. Keeping the epidemic of campus rape hush-hush is the only priority, and the result is: surprise! More rape.
 
2013-02-25 08:10:08 PM
She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.
 
2013-02-25 08:16:43 PM
www.foodiggity.com
 
2013-02-25 08:17:16 PM
the rapist must be on the basketball team.  or football team or lax team.
 
2013-02-25 08:19:21 PM

gilgigamesh: yeah, I figured something like this was the real "honor code violation" before I even clicked. She's being punished for making the school look bad. Keeping the epidemic of campus rape hush-hush is the only priority, and the result is: surprise! More rape.



You said "rape" twice.
im.videosearch.rediff.com
 
2013-02-25 08:36:16 PM
White Southern Men like Rape. More at 11
 
2013-02-25 08:36:25 PM

SlothB77: the rapist must be on the basketball team.  or football team or lax team.


Hey! He could be in their engineering dep... BWAHAHAHA!! Damn, thought I could make it.

/$ is on basketball, March madness and all
 
2013-02-25 08:50:27 PM
So I'm sitting in Intro to Physics during my freshman year; it is the first day for the class that semester.  The professor introduces himself, and gives his spiel about the course curriculum.  He then asks if there are any questions.

A girl a few rows ahead of me raises her hand.  The professor nods, and the girl stands up.  In a shaky but determined voice she says, "Sir, I don't have a question.  But the person sitting there is [fake name here], and he raped me."  She stood there pointing at the guy.

Well the accused hurriedly excused himself from the room, and she sat back down.  The professor decided that would be a good note to close on.  Not sure if I saw either the accuser or accused after that day.
 
2013-02-25 08:53:37 PM
Rapist charged with on her code violation.
 
2013-02-25 09:02:35 PM
well we can't have her rapist feeling uncomfortable now can we?  that would be inhuman!
 
2013-02-25 09:19:00 PM
Get the police involved, and then she'll be hassled about speaking about a pending case, until after the trial.
 
2013-02-25 09:26:15 PM
That's not how I would have ranked the different "violations", but I just went to a local college.
 
2013-02-25 09:41:08 PM

IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.


Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
i1094.photobucket.com
We're on to your kind.
 
2013-02-25 09:53:11 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.


What the hell are you talking about?
 
2013-02-25 10:00:19 PM

IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?


The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.
 
2013-02-25 10:03:11 PM
Ironic that a college in the Bible belt would punish a girl for going Old Testament on her rapist.

For the not well versed, Old Testament law stated that a woman was to scream when raped or make known about the attack or she could be guilty of fornication.  The rapist was to be put to death, but if she does not cry out and the act is discovered, she is to be his wife and he is not permitted to divorce her.  Found in Deuteronomy 22.(paraphrasing)

I am not saying we stick to those punishments, but definitely publicly make his shame known.  Dude can't get a girl to volunteer.
 
2013-02-25 10:11:41 PM

FTFA: the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may have violated the school's Honor Code,

i.imgur.com



Uh oh, looks like we got a GED in Law over here. That kangaroo court will fold faster than Superman on laundry day. Send over a real writ of mandamus from a state judge and tell me how long it lasts.

/graduate student attorney general? give me a farking break
 
2013-02-25 10:12:49 PM

lack of warmth: Ironic that a college in the Bible belt would punish a girl for going Old Testament on her rapist.

For the not well versed, Old Testament law stated that a woman was to scream when raped or make known about the attack or she could be guilty of fornication.  The rapist was to be put to death, but if she does not cry out and the act is discovered, she is to be his wife and he is not permitted to divorce her.  Found in Deuteronomy 22.(paraphrasing)

I am not saying we stick to those punishments, but definitely publicly make his shame known.  Dude can't get a girl to volunteer.


I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.
 
2013-02-25 10:13:35 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.


Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.
 
2013-02-25 10:19:25 PM

born_yesterday: Intro to Physics...the first day for the class that semester. The professor...gives his spiel...asks if there are any questions. A girl a few rows ahead of me raises her hand. The professor nods, and the girl stands up. In a shaky but determined voice she says, "Sir, I don't have a question. But the person sitting there is [fake name here], and he raped me." She stood there pointing at the guy.



i.imgur.com

Seriously, I'm the professor in that nightmare. Now I'm going to be afraid of dealing with that in my classes.
 
2013-02-25 10:19:39 PM

IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.


She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.
 
2013-02-25 10:20:45 PM
IgG4:
Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

most rape victims aren't going to be coherent.  the school should be making sure the cops are involved in any investigation, and if the police determine a rape occurred, then they'll take it from there.  that's what they do after all.  its their job.  the ONLY thing the school should be doing is calling the cops and reporting a possible rape.  then back the hell off and stay out of it.
 
2013-02-25 10:21:24 PM

IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me... Sounds like trouble to me.


Who even repeats themselves this way? Someone frothing with rage.
 
2013-02-25 10:22:14 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me... Sounds like trouble to me.

Who even repeats themselves this way? Someone frothing with rage.


I wonder if he's one of those 'legitimate rape' Republican types....?
 
2013-02-25 10:22:58 PM

lack of warmth: Ironic that a college in the Bible belt would punish a girl for going Old Testament on her rapist.

For the not well versed, Old Testament law stated that a woman was to scream when raped or make known about the attack or she could be guilty of fornication.  The rapist was to be put to death, but if she does not cry out and the act is discovered, she is to be his wife and he is not permitted to divorce her.  Found in Deuteronomy 22.(paraphrasing)

I am not saying we stick to those punishments, but definitely publicly make his shame known.  Dude can't get a girl to volunteer.




Lucky you beat me here. I was going to call for termination. But, your way is more Jesusy, so it's cool.
 
2013-02-25 10:23:53 PM
Apparently the honorable thing according to UNC is to lie back and think of Tarheel Pride.
 
2013-02-25 10:24:01 PM
I didn't know UNC was a Catholic school.
 
2013-02-25 10:24:04 PM
Has he been convicted?  I'm not a GED holding law type, but I imagine that plays into the harassment angle just a little bit.
 
2013-02-25 10:24:26 PM

Somacandra: FTFA: the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may have violated the school's Honor Code,[i.imgur.com image 340x255]

Uh oh, looks like we got a GED in Law over here. That kangaroo court will fold faster than Superman on laundry day. Send over a real writ of mandamus from a state judge and tell me how long it lasts.

/graduate student attorney general? give me a farking break


I've got even money said SAG is in the bottom percentile of his/her law class.
 
2013-02-25 10:24:29 PM

IgG4: Look if you get raped you go to the cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights.


Hmmm. Let's click the link here...

Some backstory: "I just woke up in my bed covered in blood and not knowing what happened," said Pino, now a junior at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. Today she still doesn't know who he was. She says she's suffered depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, but when she applied for medical withdrawal from her classes, Pino said the Academic Advising office told her she was "being lazy." Over the next several months, Pino heard similar tales from more than 60 other sexual assault survivors at UNC.

Yeah, I think you might want to check out the situation a little more before jumping to any more mansplaining conclusions.
 
2013-02-25 10:24:53 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.




Dayum! Female, and right.
 
2013-02-25 10:26:58 PM

IgG4: You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights.


You do when the school has a systematic history of covering up rapes and silencing rape victims.

You shiatstain.
 
2013-02-25 10:27:15 PM

Weaver95: IgG4:
Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

most rape victims aren't going to be coherent.  the school should be making sure the cops are involved in any investigation, and if the police determine a rape occurred, then they'll take it from there.  that's what they do after all.  its their job.  the ONLY thing the school should be doing is calling the cops and reporting a possible rape.  then back the hell off and stay out of it.


Exactly.
 
2013-02-25 10:27:23 PM

Somacandra: IgG4: Look if you get raped you go to the cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights.

Hmmm. Let's click the link here...

Some backstory: "I just woke up in my bed covered in blood and not knowing what happened," said Pino, now a junior at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. Today she still doesn't know who he was. She says she's suffered depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, but when she applied for medical withdrawal from her classes, Pino said the Academic Advising office told her she was "being lazy." Over the next several months, Pino heard similar tales from more than 60 other sexual assault survivors at UNC.

Yeah, I think you might want to check out the situation a little more before jumping to any more mansplaining conclusions.


You're assuming he didn't know all about it and was spreading lies and misinformation anyway.
 
2013-02-25 10:27:24 PM

whither_apophis: /$ is on basketball, March madness and all


Not necessarily. He could also be related to the principal or one of the teachers.
 
2013-02-25 10:27:53 PM

Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.


i.imgur.com

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.
 
2013-02-25 10:28:18 PM
You can't spell rape without pear.
 
2013-02-25 10:28:24 PM

IgG4: Weaver95: IgG4:
Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

most rape victims aren't going to be coherent.  the school should be making sure the cops are involved in any investigation, and if the police determine a rape occurred, then they'll take it from there.  that's what they do after all.  its their job.  the ONLY thing the school should be doing is calling the cops and reporting a possible rape.  then back the hell off and stay out of it.

Exactly.


IgG4: Weaver95: IgG4:
Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

most rape victims aren't going to be coherent.  the school should be making sure the cops are involved in any investigation, and if the police determine a rape occurred, then they'll take it from there.  that's what they do after all.  its their job.  the ONLY thing the school should be doing is calling the cops and reporting a possible rape.  then back the hell off and stay out of it.

Exactly.


so why would you assume this woman is an activist?
 
2013-02-25 10:29:02 PM
Was the dude convicted of raping her?

If so, the school is farked.

If not, then that biatch needs to shut the fark up and suck up some slander charges.
 
2013-02-25 10:29:06 PM
So, the guy was charged with a crime?
 
2013-02-25 10:29:11 PM

Ambivalence: Heaven forbid we should hurt the rapist's fee fees.


There hasn't been a police investigation, no charges have been filed. All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university  If she was raped she needs to file a police report and let them handle it. This University "honor court" bullshiat isn't going to cut it. And if the University is guilty of anything it's not telling her that in the first place.
 
2013-02-25 10:29:18 PM

Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.


IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.
 
2013-02-25 10:29:35 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.


And universities are notorious for covering things up if it might possibly make the school look bad. You often have to at least threaten to report to a federal agency to get things moving. I had to threaten to play that card on behalf of my sister when our college wouldn't do anything about her being sexually harassed by some other students. Suddenly when I pointed out that their federal funding was in trouble if my sister decided to go to the feds over their Title IX violations, they decided to take things a lot more seriously.
 
2013-02-25 10:29:55 PM
Maybe she should wait for her "alleged" rapist to be convicted so its no longer an "Alleged" case and its a convicted case, other wise its just defaming the character of someone.
 
2013-02-25 10:30:00 PM

MrHappyRotter: You can't spell rape without pear.


This! We can't lose sight of what's important here, people.
 
2013-02-25 10:30:31 PM

Hagenhatesyouall: Was the dude convicted of raping her?

If so, the school is farked.

If not, then that biatch needs to shut the fark up and suck up some slander charges.


Whup, got another sociopath! "If the rapist isn't convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, then the accuser is guilty of lying and we don't need trials or anything."
Tag him and bag him.
 
2013-02-25 10:30:52 PM

Voiceofreason01: If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university


0/10, and that's being generous.
 
2013-02-25 10:30:55 PM

Theaetetus: You're assuming he didn't know all about it and was spreading lies and misinformation anyway.


I try not to assert malice where incompetence alone can account for the problem. If there is malice afoot, then that's already out of my department.
 
2013-02-25 10:31:24 PM
<blockquote>Landen Gambill, a sophomore at UNC, was part of a group that filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse. Ten days after they filed their complaint, the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may have violated the school's Honor Code</blockquote>

Yeah, apparently they violated section 6.b, which outlaws making the school look bad.
Seriously, what kind of moronic bullsh*t is this?  If the school thought they were gonna look bad for not supporting sexual assault victims, just wait what happens when people see them actively attacking them while nonsensically trying to protect the poor rapist's feelings.
 
2013-02-25 10:31:36 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-25 10:31:37 PM

atomicmask: Maybe she should wait for her "alleged" rapist to be convicted so its no longer an "Alleged" case and its a convicted case, other wise its just defaming the character of someone.


blogs.westword.com
Two in a row! A ha ha!
 
2013-02-25 10:32:04 PM
Old Testiment stops with the 10th Commandment.  Besides, you can't get the rest on a courthouse wall.
 
2013-02-25 10:32:21 PM

gadian: Has he been convicted?  I'm not a GED holding law type, but I imagine that plays into the harassment angle just a little bit.


But she didn't name him either.  I can't imagine there is only one rapey guy in all of Chapel Hill, or she was refering to him with a terrible pseudonym.

/I can't refer to anyone by name, but let me tell you about a night with Smarry Jackhouse.
 
2013-02-25 10:32:31 PM
So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?
 
2013-02-25 10:32:31 PM
But say the phrase "rape culture" and everyone yells at you.
 
2013-02-25 10:33:53 PM

SlothB77: the rapist must be on the basketball team.  or football team or lax team.


That was my thought, also.  He's somehow big on campus.
 
2013-02-25 10:34:08 PM

atomicmask: Maybe she should wait for her "alleged" rapist to be convicted so its no longer an "Alleged" case and its a convicted case, other wise its just defaming the character of someone.


no, I don't think so.  look - she still has freedom of speech.  if she feels that the school was less than supportive of her claims of rape and has suggestions on how the administration can improve their handling of claims of rape then she SHOULD be heard.  if the administration blew off her concerns, and it looks like that might have been the case, then she's justified in doing something to grab their attention.

that's an action independent of the rape case.  she can actually keep that a separate issue and it sounds like that's what she did.  she hasn't publicly named her (accused) rapist.  she was upset with how the school reacted.
 
2013-02-25 10:34:19 PM
I, for one, welcome our new sociopathic rapist overlords!
 
2013-02-25 10:34:26 PM

Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Voiceofreason01: All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university  If she was raped she needs to file a police report and let them handle it.


Glad to know you guys have your talking points straight. It makes it easier to identify you.
 
2013-02-25 10:35:31 PM

bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?


the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.
 
2013-02-25 10:35:32 PM

Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?


Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.
 
2013-02-25 10:36:12 PM

SpdrJay: I, for one, welcome our new sociopathic rapist overlords!


Can I humbly suggest that the phrase "There's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society" become a new copypasta?
 
2013-02-25 10:36:30 PM

SpdrJay: I, for one, welcome our new sociopathic rapist overlords!


K-Y!!  GET YOUR K-Y HERE.
 
2013-02-25 10:37:21 PM

Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.


just skimmed that article.  YIKES!  if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?
 
2013-02-25 10:38:52 PM

Weaver95: Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.

just skimmed that article.  YIKES!  if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?


l2.yimg.com
 
2013-02-25 10:39:07 PM
Theaetetus:
Glad to know you guys have your talking points straight. It makes it easier to identify you.

Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody. I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.
 
2013-02-25 10:40:34 PM
In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

I have had women friends show me whistles, steak knives, and other implements they carry with them at all times to hopefully ward off a rapist.  I have sat in a room of 25 other college football players and heard them all agree that, if they were raping a girl anyway, they may as well sodomize her while they were at it.  And I have seen teenage girls dragged through the mud by the media when they dare go public against their accusers.
 
2013-02-25 10:40:46 PM

Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
Glad to know you guys have your talking points straight. It makes it easier to identify you.

Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody. I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.


you weren't paying attention, were you?
 
2013-02-25 10:40:55 PM

Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.


Then how come you keep responding to me?
 
2013-02-25 10:41:05 PM

Weaver95: YIKES! if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?


In my experience working at large universities it is no different than business or government or some other large non-profit organization like a major church. There are powerful people who have interests to protect and they will go to any length necessary to preserve their slice of the pie. Of course Penn State is the paradigmatic example..but merely an example of a much larger trend.
 
2013-02-25 10:41:05 PM
OK, after reading more about this story from local media, I'm really confused. She claims her boyfriend raped her, but instead of going to police she filed an honor code violation against him, and he was found not guilty.


I'm still not clear why she didn't go to the police.
 
2013-02-25 10:41:47 PM
She better pray to God she can prove the things she's claiming beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise she is going to get the pants sued off her.
 
2013-02-25 10:43:23 PM

Theaetetus: Whup, got another sociopath! "If the rapist isn't convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, then the accuser is guilty of lying and we don't need trials or anything."
Tag him and bag him.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't any kind of guilt supposed to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt before it is established? Or is merely asking this question enough to identify myself as a rapist sociopath?
 
2013-02-25 10:44:13 PM

Kazan: White Southern Men like Rape. More at 11


All (race) (region) (gender) are (criminals).

I'm honestly confused; are you being ironic, or...?
 
2013-02-25 10:44:40 PM

Weaver95: Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.

just skimmed that article.  YIKES!  if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?


I'm guessing Penn State level of shenanigans worthy of the same implosion...sad that it's unlikely to happen.
 
2013-02-25 10:44:51 PM

Somacandra: Weaver95: YIKES! if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?

In my experience working at large universities it is no different than business or government or some other large non-profit organization like a major church. There are powerful people who have interests to protect and they will go to any length necessary to preserve their slice of the pie. Of course Penn State is the paradigmatic example..but merely an example of a much larger trend.


if the school was getting reports from that many students who said that they woke up with fuzzy memories and physical evidence of rape then they are in serious trouble.  one or two students...ok, maybe I could see it as coincidence or 'he said/she said' student bullshiat.  let the cops sort it out and keep the two students away from one another for the rest of term.  but SIXTY girls all saying the same (or very similar) things!?  WTF man....that's insane.
 
2013-02-25 10:45:04 PM
Weaver95:
you weren't paying attention, were you?

There aren't enough details in the article to know anything for sure other than someone, somewhere is outraged. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that's pretty damning if you look at it from a certain point of view but no hard evidence. Am I supposed to be outraged by this?
 
2013-02-25 10:45:14 PM
 
2013-02-25 10:45:37 PM

Somacandra: Weaver95: YIKES! if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?

In my experience working at large universities it is no different than business or government or some other large non-profit organization like a major church. There are powerful people who have interests to protect and they will go to any length necessary to preserve their slice of the pie. Of course Penn State is the paradigmatic example..but merely an example of a much larger trend.


I wish that we, as a society, had the ethical intestinal fortitude to jail not only the people who were guilty of a crime but also people who knew and helped cover it up or who knew and simply said nothing in order to protect themselves.
 
2013-02-25 10:45:46 PM

Theaetetus: Weaver95: Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.

just skimmed that article.  YIKES!  if the school looked the other way after something that bad...what ELSE are they covering up!?

[l2.yimg.com image 315x210]


Damn, beat me to it....
 
2013-02-25 10:46:39 PM

Voiceofreason01: Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody.


The article does not ever name the boyfriend, but you said: "If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university." Trying to fall back on the evidence in the article  now means that yes, you  were trying to white knight a rapist.
In fact, the very mention of "boyfriend" is white knighting the rapist  since you're the only person to suggest a boyfriend was involved.

I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

If you "might believe that University is covering things up" then why did you say that "theboyfriend might have a good libel case against... the university"? This is inconsistent: you say some boyfriend you dreamed up (because it's not mentioned anywhere in the article) has a libel case against the university, but admit that the university could be covering up a rape.

But yes, I'll be frank: you're not really white knighting a rapist, you're  attacking a rape victim to destroy her credibility, based on your imagined "boyfriend" and accusations against the university.

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.

I bet you can guess how I have you farkied, and in what color.
 
2013-02-25 10:46:54 PM

atomicmask: Maybe she should wait for her "alleged" rapist to be convicted so its no longer an "Alleged" case and its a convicted case, other wise its just defaming the character of someone.


Didn't RTFA, did you?
 
2013-02-25 10:48:03 PM

Lunchlady: She better pray to God she can prove the things she's claiming beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise she is going to get the pants sued off her.


I don't think so.

look - her deal is that she didn't like how the university handled her claims of rape.  they didn't even acknowledge her and assumed she was lying without checking out her story.  she followed their rules, their procedures...didn't get satisfaction.  so she went to the next level.  now she got their attention and the response was to punish her for it.

even if you don't like her.  even if you don't believe her story...you STILL have to support her right to say she doesn't agree with how the school handled her situation.
 
2013-02-25 10:48:07 PM
Goofus goes public with accusations of a crime.

Gallant calls the police and provides evidentiary support.
 
2013-02-25 10:48:21 PM
Gambill hadn't told her parents the "horrific and disturbing" truth, but she claims her student Honor Court representative did so without permission. While Gambill testified at her trial, she says her student rep gave her parents a confidential document she had written, which was intended to be used only as evidence in the Honor Court. "When I found out he had given it to them, I asked him why," Gambill said, recounting her outrage. She said that the student rep told her that he "thought they should know."

Whoa, that's a violation of federal privacy laws, isn't it?
 
2013-02-25 10:48:57 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.


You sound fat.
 
2013-02-25 10:49:10 PM

Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.


You're getting victims confused, by the way; that account is from someone else who brought the case against UNC. The subject of this article was raped by her boyfriend, who's referenced in that article as also having stalked her. I'm not sure which was first; I haven't really kept up with the chronology of it all. Though I do remember hearing something along the lines of their reaction to his stalking her being to move him to a better dorm. If anyone's wondering why there hasn't been a conviction, well...it's pretty clear there are people standing in the way of that.

/current UNC student
//you would not believe the reaction this got today
 
2013-02-25 10:49:36 PM

Voiceofreason01: Weaver95:
you weren't paying attention, were you?

There aren't enough details in the article to know anything for sure other than someone, somewhere is outraged. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that's pretty damning if you look at it from a certain point of view but no hard evidence. Am I supposed to be outraged by this?


if you follow along with the links embedded in the story, there are certainly more details than you seem to have noticed.  besides, the details of the rape aren't at issue.  the schools handling of the situation is what's at stake.
 
2013-02-25 10:49:45 PM
For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.
 
2013-02-25 10:50:43 PM

Weaver95: if the school was getting reports from that many students who said that they woke up with fuzzy memories and physical evidence of rape then they are in serious trouble.


===

On Wednesday, Pino and UNC alumna Annie Clark, supported by fellow UNC student Landen Gambill -- all sexual assault survivors -- filed a formal complaint with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights on behalf of themselves and those 64 other victims, whose names are being kept confidential. Their complaint alleges UNC violated assault survivors' rights under the Campus Sexual Assault Victims' Bill of Rights, the Clery Act and the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), and equal opportunity mandates under Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, Titles VI and VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Ok, ok. Its clear that there are a number of victims, Pino is not Gambill. But the issue is not the conviction of suspects-rather the failure of UNC to institutionally deal with rape culture there. Its not about the crime so much as the coverup afterwards and shuffling off victims to keep the school from looking bad.
 
2013-02-25 10:50:57 PM
Landen Gambill is the one who claims she is being threatened with an honor code violation for talking about her "rape.". She is the one who reported her boyfriend for an honor code violation for raping her. But I haven't found any explanation in any story I've read for why she didn't go to the police.
 
2013-02-25 10:51:28 PM

Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.


which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.
 
2013-02-25 10:52:41 PM

bigwf2007: Landen Gambill is the one who claims she is being threatened with an honor code violation for talking about her "rape.". She is the one who reported her boyfriend for an honor code violation for raping her. But I haven't found any explanation in any story I've read for why she didn't go to the police.


um...what story are you reading?  could you link to it?  because that's not what the rest of us are talking about....
 
2013-02-25 10:53:22 PM

Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

I have had women friends show me whistles, steak knives, and other implements they carry with them at all times to hopefully ward off a rapist.  I have sat in a room of 25 other college football players and heard them all agree that, if they were raping a girl anyway, they may as well sodomize her while they were at it.  And I have seen teenage girls dragged through the mud by the media when they dare go public against their accusers.


Thank you. Been pointing this out for years--I can sit and talk about how farked up it is that we train girls to look at men like it's a third-world country until the cows come home, but I'm seriously starting to think that rape culture is only going to get resolved when women start openly displaying weapons and treating injured wannabe rapists like marks of honor.
 
2013-02-25 10:53:31 PM
Good. Fark that university.
 
2013-02-25 10:53:34 PM
Sidenote to all of Fark's pro-rape white knights: You are aware that the only thing you're succeeding in is making yourselves look guilty of rape as well, right? I'm not going to say that you are rapists (obviously, most of you are just trolls), but that's what it looks like. That goes for every rape thread, by the way, not just this one.
 
2013-02-25 10:53:36 PM

Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.


Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.
 
2013-02-25 10:54:02 PM
 
2013-02-25 10:55:58 PM

IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?


Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit  multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.
And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a  smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only about 10% or less of the population... and then no one, male or female, needs to live in fear. Because you'll be marked, and you'll be harmless.

There's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.

*which you claimed about this victim, but isn't necessarily true. See the links above.
 
2013-02-25 10:56:13 PM
This happen in Chapel Hill?  The East Coast Berkeley?  Unpossible!
 
2013-02-25 10:56:35 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.


Wait, it's inappropriate to ridicule rape apologists now?
 
2013-02-25 10:56:45 PM

Somacandra: Theaetetus: In fact, the very mention of "boyfriend" is white knighting the rapist since you're the only person to suggest a boyfriend was involved.

Whoa there. I think s/he's talking about Laurent Gambill, who was just one of the filers:  "Gambill says she went to the Dean of Students Office to report an abusive ex-boyfriend for stalking in March 2012. She filed a complaint with the university's Honor Court system in the hopes that it'd be faster and less complicated than the legal system. But when the trial came in May, Gambill said the students and faculty on the Honor Court were focused on why she hadn't done anything to stop the alleged abuse. Gambill recounted one female student on the Honor Court who said that as a woman, she would have broken up with the alleged abuser after the first incident." That may be the confusion here. We're mixing up the different cases of survivors who all filed this complaint with the Feds.


Yes, Landen Gambill is the one being threatened with an honor code violation,not the others, and all the stories from locall media indicate it was her boyfriend she reported to the honor court for rape.
 
2013-02-25 10:58:01 PM

Genevieve Marie: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally.


Which I noticed and it was the coolest thing all day. You could look up the man, but no one cares enough to do that. People just want a story. A good "I was raped and the government did nothing." gets people all fired up and angry at the police for not solving rapes.

The only better thing would be people who publicly accuse one person of a crime being charged with that crime themselves if it turns out their accusation was known to be false to them.
 
2013-02-25 10:58:25 PM
Genevieve Marie:
Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.


yeah, but with Limbaugh and Fox News and the religious right out there constantly training their followers to believe that women who claim rape are all lying whores...can you really be surprised when you see someone blame the rape victim instead of asking questions about what actually happened...?
 
2013-02-25 10:58:25 PM

Weaver95: Lunchlady: She better pray to God she can prove the things she's claiming beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise she is going to get the pants sued off her.

I don't think so.

look - her deal is that she didn't like how the university handled her claims of rape.  they didn't even acknowledge her and assumed she was lying without checking out her story.  she followed their rules, their procedures...didn't get satisfaction.  so she went to the next level.  now she got their attention and the response was to punish her for it.

even if you don't like her.  even if you don't believe her story...you STILL have to support her right to say she doesn't agree with how the school handled her situation.


Oh agreed. I went to a fairly large state college, I know how it works, she's probably in the right. I was just commenting that if the guy's name gets out and he suffers repercussions and there isn't hard evidence to actually convict him he'd be within his rights to sue her for slander and he'd probably win.
 
2013-02-25 10:58:55 PM
Theaetetus: FTFA: "It's the venue in which Gambill attempted to resolve the sexual assault and stalking she claims she suffered at the hands of her ex-boyfriend. "

The article is (very) light on details and contains no comment from the University. All we have is the Huffington Post(who's trying to stir up controversy to generate clicks) and a clearly outraged woman. The story is totally one sided and without more details there's no way to know what actually happened. The fact that she tried to resolve the problem in university honor court and not through the police is unusual. I'm not passing blame and I'm not in any way implying that she's lying. But there is no way to tell from the facts presented(few and distorted as they are) what actually happened. You and several others seem very quick to assign blame without really understanding what's going on.
 
2013-02-25 10:59:16 PM
bigwf2007:
Yes, Landen Gambill is the one being threatened with an honor code violation,not the others, and all the stories from locall media indicate it was her boyfriend she reported to the honor court for rape.

where are you seeing this at?
 
2013-02-25 10:59:17 PM

bigwf2007: Landen Gambill is the one who claims she is being threatened with an honor code violation for talking about her "rape.". She is the one who reported her boyfriend for an honor code violation for raping her. But I haven't found any explanation in any story I've read for why she didn't go to the police.


No, she isn't...  She was in an abusive relationship (sexually and verbally) with her boyfriend and when she ended the relationship he started to stalk her. She reported him for an honor code violation for stalking her. I'm guessing she just wanted it to stop and thought that was the easiest way to make it happen. For her efforts:

Link


When the relationship ended, she said she was met with months of stalking, threats and harassment.

Those actions lead her to press charges with the Honor Court. In her trial, Gambill said she was forced to answer irrelevant and inappropriate questions.

"The woman student said to me, 'Landen, as a woman, I know that if that had happened to me, I would've broken up with him the first time it happened. Will you explain to me why you didn't?'" she said.

Gambill said the court used her history of clinical depression and her suicide attempt - which she said was a result of her abusive relationship - against her.

"They implied that I was emotionally unstable and couldn't be telling the truth because I had attempted suicide," she said.

Gambill said the court's ignorance reflected a complete lack of training.

But Judicial Programs Officer Erik Hunter said the Honor Court members and the student attorney general's staff received a full day of training after the interim procedures were implemented.
 
2013-02-25 10:59:56 PM

doglover: The only better thing would be people who publicly accuse one person of a crime being charged with that crime themselves if it turns out their accusation was known to be false to them.


Why would you bring that up in a thread about rape?

It implies that false rape charges are something that happens regularly, when all available evidence says that rape is not falsely reported more than any other crime. And yet somehow, I never see "Well what if they're lying" brought up in home invasion stories.
 
2013-02-25 11:00:13 PM

meanmutton: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

Wait, it's inappropriate to ridicule rape apologists now?


shiat, what, that wasn't ridicule? (sigh)
 
2013-02-25 11:00:14 PM

gadian: Has he been convicted?  I'm not a GED holding law type, but I imagine that plays into the harassment angle just a little bit.


Dude, this is Fark.  No one cares if he is guilty or was ever even arrested, so long as someone has told the media he did it.
 
2013-02-25 11:00:15 PM
FARK. THAT.

Give me this son of a biatch's name and I'll skywrite it in Chapel Hill. I'll pay for it myself.
 
2013-02-25 11:00:31 PM

Somacandra: Theaetetus: In fact, the very mention of "boyfriend" is white knighting the rapist since you're the only person to suggest a boyfriend was involved.

Whoa there. I think s/he's talking about Laurent Gambill, who was just one of the filers:  "Gambill says she went to the Dean of Students Office to report an abusive ex-boyfriend for stalking in March 2012. She filed a complaint with the university's Honor Court system in the hopes that it'd be faster and less complicated than the legal system. But when the trial came in May, Gambill said the students and faculty on the Honor Court were focused on why she hadn't done anything to stop the alleged abuse. Gambill recounted one female student on the Honor Court who said that as a woman, she would have broken up with the alleged abuser after the first incident." That may be the confusion here. We're mixing up the different cases of survivors who all filed this complaint with the Feds.


Fair enough, and I withdraw that single point, Voiceofreason01. I stand by the comment that you're simultaneously calling the boyfriend innocent while suggesting the university is guilty of libel for the exact same instance. That inconsistency is still white knighting the rapist, if you believe your own words.
 
2013-02-25 11:00:38 PM

Weaver95: Genevieve Marie:
Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.

yeah, but with Limbaugh and Fox News and the religious right out there constantly training their followers to believe that women who claim rape are all lying whores...can you really be surprised when you see someone blame the rape victim instead of asking questions about what actually happened...?


I talk about feminism on the internet. Nothing misogynistic ever surprises me.
 
2013-02-25 11:00:51 PM

Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.


Amen...I sincerely doubt those that go to the excuse of "well, if she didn't report it to the cops, obviously, it's a fake charge". Such a report and investigation is unpleasant, to say the very farkin' least, not to mention the cycle of blame, stigma and invasion that victim has to endure through a trial, if it ever makes it that far and department actually handles the charge correctly. I can't blame a victim for not going to the cops...it just reopens the wound over and over again.
 
2013-02-25 11:01:08 PM

bigwf2007: I'm still not clear why she didn't go to the police.


"She filed a complaint with the university's Honor Court system in the hopes that it'd be faster and less complicated than the legal system." [1, paragraph 10]

Lunchlady: She better pray to God she can prove the things she's claiming beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise she is going to get the pants sued off her.


Not a chance; she's steadfastly refused to identify the guy, and most people around here (me included) can't work out who it is. Suing would be disastrously self-incriminating of the guy, and he wouldn't have a case, which is (from what I understand) exactly what she's going for.

Weaver95:if the school was getting reports from that many students who said that they woke up with fuzzy memories and physical evidence of rape then they are in serious trouble.  one or two students...ok, maybe I could see it as coincidence or 'he said/she said' student bullshiat.  let the cops sort it out and keep the two students away from one another for the rest of term.  but SIXTY girls all saying the same (or very similar) things!?  WTF man....that's insane.

We have a student body that's generally progressive and conscious of modern sexual politics, and we have an administration that's very much  not. So we have students who recognize they've been assaulted and staff that refuses to do the same. It's...I'm not sure how I feel about it. At least we know what's going on and have students who think to go public; I imagine that's not the same everywhere.
 
2013-02-25 11:01:30 PM

Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.



Replace "rape" with "theft" or "murder".

Any discussion of lesser crimes (seriously - rape is the worst of the worst) that automatically grants the benefit of the doubt to the accuser would be dismissed out of hand because, seriously, accusing someone of stealing something isn't really enough.


//I also went to university.
///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.
//Agree to disagree.
 
2013-02-25 11:01:34 PM
I still don't get the thing about the honor charges to begin with.  Why?  Why not just have him arrested?  His school record and standing on campus will be remedied by an arrest for sexual assault and stalking.  Such a thing would be very far from my mind.  Then again, I've never had to deal with going to class with my rapist, so there is that.
 
2013-02-25 11:01:50 PM
shiat, I barely raped anyone in college.
 
2013-02-25 11:02:17 PM
Genevieve Marie:
I talk about feminism on the internet. Nothing misogynistic ever surprises me.

there's some real knuckle draggers here on fark, that's for sure.
 
2013-02-25 11:02:25 PM

Weaver95: bigwf2007:
Yes, Landen Gambill is the one being threatened with an honor code violation,not the others, and all the stories from locall media indicate it was her boyfriend she reported to the honor court for rape.

where are you seeing this at?



This is how the article starts:
A University of North Carolina student says she faces possible expulsion for "intimidating" her alleged rapist by speaking publicly about her assault and how the school has handled it.
Landen Gambill, a sophomore at UNC, was part of a group that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/unc-sexual-assault_n_2488383. html" target="_hplink">filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse. Ten days after they filed their complaint, the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">have violated the school's Honor Code, Jezebel reports.
On Friday, Gambill got an email informing her that she was being formally charged with an Honor Code violation for "disruptive or intimidating behavior" against her alleged rapist, although she has never publicly named him. If the UNC Honor Court finds Gambill guilty, the http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">punishment could be expulsion, suspension
 
2013-02-25 11:03:27 PM

Dokushin: Kazan: White Southern Men like Rape. More at 11

All (race) (region) (gender) are (criminals).

I'm honestly confused; are you being ironic, or...?


He's being Leftist. It's not individuals that are guilty of crimes, it's entire classes of individuals, and in our time white, heterosexual and male is the guiltiest class of all. Remember the Duke lacrosse team scandal? Long before the allegations were considered in a court of law, the "enlightened" liberal faculty at the university signed their names to a document suggesting that the accused were guilty BECAUSE SEXISM, BECAUSE RACISM etc. Even after the allegations were discredited, in fact, some of them still stuck to their narrative -- "because even if this particular accusation was a lie, okay, it was still the truth in a larger sense, right, because it's an immutable fact of nature that white men rape black women, y'know?" In other words, even though it was a lie, it was still true.

What you must always keep in mind is that the actual innocence and/or guilt of any given individual in the United States accused of a crime is of trivial importance in comparison to the degree to which their story reinforces the Narrative and its concomitant hierarchy of oppression. White fratboys accused of rape against white women are automatically guilty, because the fratboys outrank the women in the hierarchy of victimhood; but a black man accused of rape against a white woman is probably the object of a racist witchhunt. As Lenin would say, it's all a matter of "who-whom", i.e. who is doing what to whom. There is no objective standard of justice.
 
2013-02-25 11:03:34 PM

Ryan2065: But Judicial Programs Officer Erik Hunter said the Honor Court members and the student attorney general's staff received a full day of training after the interim procedures were implemented.


Ooooo, a whole day of training! I'm sure that straightened everyone out!
 
2013-02-25 11:03:40 PM

Theaetetus: Voiceofreason01: Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody.

The article does not ever name the boyfriend, but you said: "If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university." Trying to fall back on the evidence in the article  now means that yes, you  were trying to white knight a rapist.
In fact, the very mention of "boyfriend" is white knighting the rapist  since you're the only person to suggest a boyfriend was involved.

I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

If you "might believe that University is covering things up" then why did you say that "theboyfriend might have a good libel case against... the university"? This is inconsistent: you say some boyfriend you dreamed up (because it's not mentioned anywhere in the article) has a libel case against the university, but admit that the university could be covering up a rape.

But yes, I'll be frank: you're not really white knighting a rapist, you're  attacking a rape victim to destroy her credibility, based on your imagined "boyfriend" and accusations against the university.

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.

I bet you can guess how I have you farkied, and in what color.


Dude, (dudette?), really? You really think this random stranger is attacking a rape victim, with the driven purpose of destroying her credibility, because he's a sociopath? My god you're a complete loon.
 
2013-02-25 11:03:44 PM
Where the hell am I living? Did I go to sleep in the 20th century and wake up after honor and justice and decency were outlawed? Pedophile priests protected by popes, bungling bankers bankrolled by bureaucrats, and now rapists rudely razzed. WTF America?!

Someone fold up the flag and eat the last piece of apple pie...we're finished.
 
2013-02-25 11:04:01 PM

bigwf2007: Weaver95: bigwf2007:
Yes, Landen Gambill is the one being threatened with an honor code violation,not the others, and all the stories from locall media indicate it was her boyfriend she reported to the honor court for rape.

where are you seeing this at?


This is how the article starts:
A University of North Carolina student says she faces possible expulsion for "intimidating" her alleged rapist by speaking publicly about her assault and how the school has handled it.
Landen Gambill, a sophomore at UNC, was part of a group that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/unc-sexual-assault_n_2488383. html" target="_hplink">filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse. Ten days after they filed their complaint, the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">have violated the school's Honor Code, Jezebel reports.
On Friday, Gambill got an email informing her that she was being formally charged with an Honor Code violation for "disruptive or intimidating behavior" against her alleged rapist, although she has never publicly named him. If the UNC Honor Court finds Gambill guilty, the http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">punishment could be expulsion, suspension


I see nothing in that to support your allegations.
 
2013-02-25 11:04:39 PM

ModernLuddite: ///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.


"I think rape accusations are always false because all it is is someone doing something to a woman that she doesn't like sexually"- the implication being that women don't have any right to say no and have that respected.

And you know, if all the women you meet act like you might be a rapist, you might want to think long and hard about why that is.

/Pro tip: It's because you sound like a rapist.
 
2013-02-25 11:04:42 PM
And now it's in the news, the school has already lost.
 
2013-02-25 11:05:54 PM

Pharmdawg: Where the hell am I living? Did I go to sleep in the 20th century and wake up after honor and justice and decency were outlawed? Pedophile priests protected by popes, bungling bankers bankrolled by bureaucrats, and now rapists rudely razzed. WTF America?!

Someone fold up the flag and eat the last piece of apple pie...we're finished.


In all fairness, this stuff has always happened.
 
2013-02-25 11:06:11 PM

Pharmdawg: Where the hell am I living? Did I go to sleep in the 20th century and wake up after honor and justice and decency were outlawed? Pedophile priests protected by popes, bungling bankers bankrolled by bureaucrats, and now rapists rudely razzed. WTF America?!

Someone fold up the flag and eat the last piece of apple pie...we're finished.


media.tumblr.com

There has been too much violence. Too much pain. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
 
2013-02-25 11:06:20 PM

blueviking: Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.

Amen...I sincerely doubt those that go to the excuse of "well, if she didn't report it to the cops, obviously, it's a fake charge". Such a report and investigation is unpleasant, to say the very farkin' least, not to mention the cycle of blame, stigma and invasion that victim has to endure through a trial, if it ever makes it that far and department actually handles the charge correctly. I can't blame a victim for not going to the cops...it just reopens the wound over and over again.


But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.
 
2013-02-25 11:06:38 PM

Weaver95: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me... Sounds like trouble to me.

Who even repeats themselves this way? Someone frothing with rage.

I wonder if he's one of those 'legitimate rape' Republican types....?


What a 'legitimate rape' Republican type looks like:

www.topnews.in
media1.policymic.com
 
2013-02-25 11:06:45 PM
Why is this even a school issue?  What happened to her was not a violation of school rules.  What happened to her was a horrific crime!  It should have been a matter for the police, not some "honor court" run by her fellow students.  While I have sympathy for her in regards to being raped, I have no sympathy for her if she never reported the crime to the police and instead sought to have the school handle the whole thing.
 
2013-02-25 11:06:59 PM

kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.


Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?
 
2013-02-25 11:08:10 PM
UNC sucks!
 
2013-02-25 11:08:16 PM

Mock26: Why is this even a school issue?  What happened to her was not a violation of school rules.  What happened to her was a horrific crime!  It should have been a matter for the police, not some "honor court" run by her fellow students.  While I have sympathy for her in regards to being raped, I have no sympathy for her if she never reported the crime to the police and instead sought to have the school handle the whole thing.


except that there's indications that she DID speak to the cops about what happened.  then she told the school about it and they were entirely unsympathetic to her situation.
 
2013-02-25 11:09:20 PM
Not to worry, the college is going to ...

img2-1.timeinc.net

... organize a special blue ribbon, fact-finding commission
 
2013-02-25 11:09:30 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: FARK. THAT.

Give me this son of a biatch's name and I'll skywrite it in Chapel Hill. I'll pay for it myself.


But but but YER HONOR!

It reminds me of that old Kids in the Hall Sketch.

OK, People in positions of authority...what did they say you were never supposed to do when someone is raped?
Never...never attack the victim...never attack the...never...never attack...always...always attack...always attack the victim! AAAAAAARRRRRRGHHH!
 
2013-02-25 11:09:36 PM

Voiceofreason01: The fact that she tried to resolve the problem in university honor court and not through the police is unusual.


Not so. The University Honor Court had jurisdiction over sexual assault and harassment claims and most students chose not to pursue criminal charges:
The only recourse for students who opted not to go to the court was to seek criminal charges, which most chose not to do, Manning said. That means most perpetrators would go completely unpunished.
The fact that she tried to resolve the problem this way and not through the police is entirelynormal, even if we disagree with the wisdom and result.
 
2013-02-25 11:09:41 PM
 alleged rapist
 
2013-02-25 11:09:54 PM
If anything the University is guilty of allowing anything having even peripherally involved with a crime as serious as rape to be dealt with in a public forum. It is testament to how truly farked up the situation has gotten that the press has become involved and that the university honor court was ever involved.
 
2013-02-25 11:10:31 PM
Data from a national violence against women survey suggested that one of the primary reasons why women didn't report rape to police was that they expected to be treated as if they did something wrong.  Another reason was they felt they wouldn't be believed.  Still another was that they felt they would be laughed at.  Add to that the treatment of women who were raped by police, and you farking morons with your "just contact police" bullshiat clearly haven't dealt with the police or prosecutors or media as a rape victim.  RAPEAPOLOGIST OL.
 
2013-02-25 11:11:26 PM

Genevieve Marie: And yet somehow, I never see "Well what if they're lying" brought up in home invasion stories.


Maybe it's because people get all stupid and emotional about sex crimes.

A man knocks over a few houses in a Mickey Mouse mask, gets busted, finds Jesus, and soon he gets a book deal for being the Rodent Robber and a lucrative career as a home security expert. People love that shiat.

Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.
 
2013-02-25 11:11:32 PM

Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?


Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?
 
2013-02-25 11:11:32 PM

Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

I have had women friends show me whistles, steak knives, and other implements they carry with them at all times to hopefully ward off a rapist.  I have sat in a room of 25 other college football players and heard them all agree that, if they were raping a girl anyway, they may as well sodomize her while they were at it.  And I have seen teenage girls dragged through the mud by the media when they dare go public against their accusers.


You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape."  Just like no one had to tell me not to murder.  Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape.  There are criminals among us.  We need to do more to look after their mental health and to perhaps cure them of the diseases that destroy their ability to reason.  But men are not criminals, and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for others.   All men are not potential rapists, and they don't deserve to be treated like they are.
 
2013-02-25 11:13:07 PM

debug: alleged rapist


You realize that just because people keep saying that, it doesn't make it any different.  When someone is murdered there is a murderer, whether or not that murderer is convicted.  You can be a rapist without being prosecuted.  Plus, read the f*cking article, because the woman in question doesn't farking know who raped her.
 
2013-02-25 11:13:07 PM
biatch make our school look bad.
 
2013-02-25 11:13:33 PM
If it's a legitimate rape, the female student body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
 
2013-02-25 11:13:34 PM

Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?


I understand that it's even worse if you're a male victim....but that's a whole other topic of conversation.
 
2013-02-25 11:13:41 PM

kendelrio: blueviking: Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.

Amen...I sincerely doubt those that go to the excuse of "well, if she didn't report it to the cops, obviously, it's a fake charge". Such a report and investigation is unpleasant, to say the very farkin' least, not to mention the cycle of blame, stigma and invasion that victim has to endure through a trial, if it ever makes it that far and department actually handles the charge correctly. I can't blame a victim for not going to the cops...it just reopens the wound over and over again.

But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.


Far easier...ever gone through a SANE exam after you've been abused and assaulted? Had to wait out months and months in an investigation with the police who question your every word, every action, reminding you that, heaven forbid you're lying, you'll be charged with a crime? The stigma from friends, family, and acquaintances, since certain police investigations and court records can become public knowledge? The doubt that comes with such scrutiny and the shame, even though is isn't a victim's fault, becomes crushing at times. Does this happen every time? No...but, if it's a situation of your word against his and there's no clear physical evidence at the time to indicate otherwise or he's a "respected" individual...far more often than you'd think.

Honor Court is far easier. It's no criminal charge, but, maybe she was of the mindset that she merely wanted to move on, and his harassment of her wasn't allowing that, and the university had a chance to step in and at least remove him, somewhat, from her life.
 
2013-02-25 11:13:41 PM

Dokushin: Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

I have had women friends show me whistles, steak knives, and other implements they carry with them at all times to hopefully ward off a rapist.  I have sat in a room of 25 other college football players and heard them all agree that, if they were raping a girl anyway, they may as well sodomize her while they were at it.  And I have seen teenage girls dragged through the mud by the media when they dare go public against their accusers.

You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape."  Just like no one had to tell me not to murder.  Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape.  There are criminals among us.  We need to do more to look after their mental health and to perhaps cure them of the diseases that destroy their ability to reason.  But men are not criminals, and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for others.   All men are not potential rapists, and they don't deserve to be treated like they are.


It's like you've never spent 5 minutes with a group of young men.
 
2013-02-25 11:14:34 PM

doglover: Genevieve Marie: And yet somehow, I never see "Well what if they're lying" brought up in home invasion stories.

Maybe it's because people get all stupid and emotional about sex crimes.

A man knocks over a few houses in a Mickey Mouse mask, gets busted, finds Jesus, and soon he gets a book deal for being the Rodent Robber and a lucrative career as a home security expert. People love that shiat.

Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.


Except that's not the case at all and never has been. We live in a shiatty culture: victims whose rapes don't match the cultural expectation (i.e. stranger jumping out of the bushes to rape a pretty young white woman) almost always get treated with skepticism and very rarely do they get justice. See: the reaction to any discussion of rape ever.

We like to think people rally behind the victim, but actually? There's always loud crowds of douchebags making sure to say "Well, you know she could be a liar". As a result? There are a whole lot more women whose rapists were never prosecuted than there EVER IN A MILLION YEARS will be "Men whose lives were ruined because the community rallied behind a rape victim and didn't believe in his innocence."
 
2013-02-25 11:14:42 PM

kendelrio: Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?

Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?



So.... um.... there's a lot of raping going on in Hawaii?  Was that the point?
/Any man who's capable of rape should be incarcerated indefinitely.  That's some sick shiat.  It's either happening or it aint.  SHE gets to decide.  Been that way forever, and will be forever.
//Has 3 daughters.  They will know they have all of the power.  I'll make sure of that.
 
2013-02-25 11:15:01 PM

Dokushin: and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for other


I would adamantly disagree with this. All people everywhere need to be taught to have respect for others. It is not a concept newborns are familiar with at birth.  In fact, newborns / kids only think about what they want and what feels good at the moment.  Someone has to teach them to think differently.
 
2013-02-25 11:15:07 PM

doglover: Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.


You supporting rapists isn't really surprising.  At all.

kendelrio: Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes,


Wow, did you just pull the "I have Black friends" but replaced Black with raped?  Awesome.
 
2013-02-25 11:15:27 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I would sue that "Honor Court" for its next generation's worth of budgets.

Going to student court for rape justice is like going to an HOA with a housing discrimination complaint.  Call real cops. Get a real lawyer.


What their "Honor Court" looks like imo:

cdn.lightgalleries.net
 
2013-02-25 11:15:29 PM

Molavian: shiat, I barely raped anyone in college.


Molavian raped me.
 
2013-02-25 11:15:34 PM

kendelrio: Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma.


Wait, does that just mean that they were angry a man did something they didn't like?
 
2013-02-25 11:15:46 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?

Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit  multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.
And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a  smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only ab ...


alltheragefaces.com
Problem?
 
2013-02-25 11:16:16 PM

Somacandra: Whoa there. I think s/he's talking about Laurent Gambill, who was just one of the filers: ... That may be the confusion here. We're mixing up the different cases of survivors who all filed this complaint with the Feds.


Ah, alright. I figured he meant "Boyfriend" as in the usual "I bet they were dating, they boned and she changed her mind" bullshiat. In that case, nevermind the troll score.

He's still a complete ass, though.
 
2013-02-25 11:16:28 PM

meow said the dog: debug: alleged rapist

You realize that just because people keep saying that, it doesn't make it any different.  When someone is murdered there is a murderer, whether or not that murderer is convicted.  You can be a rapist without being prosecuted.  Plus, read the f*cking article, because the woman in question doesn't farking know who raped her.


You're so mad you're breaking the fourth wall.  http://icanhas.cheezburger.com/squee
 
2013-02-25 11:16:49 PM
Don't even submit a plea. This is a farking kangaroo court.
 
2013-02-25 11:16:54 PM

born_yesterday: So I'm sitting in Intro to Physics during my freshman year; it is the first day for the class that semester.  The professor introduces himself, and gives his spiel about the course curriculum.  He then asks if there are any questions.

A girl a few rows ahead of me raises her hand.  The professor nods, and the girl stands up.  In a shaky but determined voice she says, "Sir, I don't have a question.  But the person sitting there is [fake name here], and he raped me."  She stood there pointing at the guy.

Well the accused hurriedly excused himself from the room, and she sat back down.  The professor decided that would be a good note to close on.  Not sure if I saw either the accuser or accused after that day.


I bet they eloped.
 
2013-02-25 11:17:05 PM

doglover: Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.


Well, gosh, who's in the wrong in that situation? The sensationalist reporter who sees "state v. john smith" on the docket and immediately dives into his 1500 words about how John Smith is a monster who farks children with one hand while punching nuns with the other? Or the victim, covered in bruises, scratches, and jizz, who told police she didn't know who raped her, but it was a guy with description [x] (that they think happens to match John Smith)? Whom should we be incensed about, and whom should John Smith heroically attack?
Clearly that slut. And all others who may be just her.
 
2013-02-25 11:17:12 PM
Genevieve Marie:
We like to think people rally behind the victim, but actually? There's always loud crowds of douchebags making sure to say "Well, you know she could be a liar". As a result? There are a whole lot more women whose rapists were never prosecuted than there EVER IN A MILLION YEARS will be "Men whose lives were ruined because the community rallied behind a rape victim and didn't believe in his innocence."

not to mention the part of the crowd that always believes that the rape victim was a slut who deserved what happened to her...now THAT is a mindset I find truly disturbing.  as if someone could 'deserve' rape.  these are the same people who see rape as a bonus every time someone gets sent to jail on a pot smoking charge.

mind boggling.
 
2013-02-25 11:17:17 PM

Weaver95: bigwf2007: Weaver95: bigwf2007:
Yes, Landen Gambill is the one being threatened with an honor code violation,not the others, and all the stories from locall media indicate it was her boyfriend she reported to the honor court for rape.

where are you seeing this at?


This is how the article starts:
A University of North Carolina student says she faces possible expulsion for "intimidating" her alleged rapist by speaking publicly about her assault and how the school has handled it.
Landen Gambill, a sophomore at UNC, was part of a group that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/unc-sexual-assault_n_2488383. html" target="_hplink">filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse. Ten days after they filed their complaint, the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">have violated the school's Honor Code, Jezebel reports.
On Friday, Gambill got an email informing her that she was being formally charged with an Honor Code violation for "disruptive or intimidating behavior" against her alleged rapist, although she has never publicly named him. If the UNC Honor Court finds Gambill guilty, the http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">punishment could be expulsion, suspension

I see nothing in that to support your allegations.



It isn't my allegations. The lede says she, noth the others, has been reported for a possible honor code violation for "'disruptive or intimidating behavior'against her alleged rapist." that's the Huffington Post, not me.
 
2013-02-25 11:17:21 PM
Don't y'all DARE be 'cusin no Norf Car'lina rape victim of lyin, now.

2.bp.blogspot.com

img2-cdn.newser.com

Sumboddy mite git hurt.
 
2013-02-25 11:17:30 PM

Genevieve Marie: victims whose rapes don't match the cultural expectation (i.e. stranger jumping out of the bushes to rape a pretty young white woman)


Oh, both rape cases in the Innocence Project and in the survey of women (violence against women) suggests that very few rapes involved that scenario.  I have no idea why so many idiots believe that; it's sad.
 
2013-02-25 11:18:19 PM

TiiiMMMaHHH: //Has 3 daughters. They will know they have all of the power. I'll make sure of that.


Make sure that they're empowered to say "Yes" too. I think that's actually one of the biggest contributors to rape culture- the idea that women are supposed to not want sex and men are supposed to work to change their minds.

I think everyone needs to be taught that sex should happen when there is a clear and enthusiastic yes from both parties. If there's not? No dice.
 
2013-02-25 11:18:26 PM
Theaetetus:The University Honor Court had jurisdiction over sexual assault and harassment claims and most students chose not to pursue criminal charges:
The only recourse for students who opted not to go to the court was to seek criminal charges, which most chose not to do, Manning said. That means most perpetrators would go completely unpunished.
The fact that she tried to resolve the problem this way and not through the police is entirelynormal, even if we disagree with the wisdom and result.


I don't disagree with any point but does any part of this sound like justice to you?
 
2013-02-25 11:18:50 PM

Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.


That purple level remark may ultimately turn out to be the less-than-ten-second "joke" that destroyed this nation.

Clayton Williams said that while running against Democrat ic candidate Ann Richards (R.I.P. ― one of the best governors Texas has had in recent memory) for Governor of Texas. He was beating her by a whopping twenty points in the polls. He had the election in the bag.

And then he made that remark. On TV. Days before the election.

Ann Richards won. She proceeded to do great things for Texas, though her first term was mostly cleaning up the mess from previous (Republican) administrations.

Unfortunately, she only got to serve that one clean-up term, and never got to do more of what she had planned. Because the GOP ran a new candidate against her, a man who was the son of the then-recent President of the United States: George W. Bush, son of George Herbert Walker Bush.

That was how Dubya became Governor of Texas. It could never have happened had Clayton Williams not said that joke. He would've won (which would've been bad for Texas), and would thus have been an incumbent, and the GOP would not risk splitting the vote putting Dubya or anyone else with any serious chance against him when he ran for reelection.

Thus, Dubya would never have been Governor of Texas. And without that as a springboard to give him credibility, he would never have even been in the running to become President of the United States.

Think how different things would be today.

One insensitive jerk tells one insensitive joke that took at most ten seconds to tell, and now America has flushed four trillion dollars down the toilet for the Iraq War alone (that Dubya kept off the books) ― money that could've completely repaired our infrastructure (including bridges on the verge of collapse nationwide ― remember, one collapsed tragically not all that long ago) and brought all public schools up to a competitive level, and much more, setting the stage for the situation we find ourselves in today.
 
2013-02-25 11:18:51 PM

TiiiMMMaHHH: kendelrio: Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?

Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?


So.... um.... there's a lot of raping going on in Hawaii?  Was that the point?
/Any man who's capable of rape should be incarcerated indefinitely.  That's some sick shiat.  It's either happening or it aint.  SHE gets to decide.  Been that way forever, and will be forever.
//Has 3 daughters.  They will know they have all of the power.  I'll make sure of that.


No, the point of that question is a friend of mine who I've lost touch woth and was a rape victum is named Genevieve an based on the vehemence with which this person comes into these threads with, I thought it may be her.

/not a rapist
 
2013-02-25 11:18:53 PM
 "I'm mostly surprised at just how crazy it is, that they're willing to charge me with something just because my rapist is feeling uncomfortable."

In fairness to the university, the correct term is  alleged rapist.  The university can't and shouldn't condone violations of innocent until proven guilty on its campus.

Especially given how badly that ended the last time this happened with a high-profile case, the university took the woman's side, and she turned out to be full of shiat, landing the uni in loads of legal trouble.

"Save it for court" is, well, a pretty reasonable position for the institution to take, aside from complying with restraining orders and so on.
 
2013-02-25 11:18:58 PM

ModernLuddite: Molavian: shiat, I barely raped anyone in college.

Molavian raped me.


It's your fault for wearing that outfit.
 
2013-02-25 11:19:04 PM
Holy shiat, it's amazing how few people seem capable of RTFA and following the plot.
 
2013-02-25 11:19:39 PM
Wow, it's pretty tough for me to believe people are jumping at the chance to defend the guy.
 
rpm
2013-02-25 11:19:46 PM

Dokushin: You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape."  Just like no one had to tell me not to murder.  Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape


You don't have to tell people? Then why does it work?
 
2013-02-25 11:20:06 PM
PAGING SPENTMILES

Spentmiles to the Fark courtesy phone, please.
 
2013-02-25 11:20:12 PM

evaned: Ryan2065: But Judicial Programs Officer Erik Hunter said the Honor Court members and the student attorney general's staff received a full day of training after the interim procedures were implemented.

Ooooo, a whole day of training! I'm sure that straightened everyone out!


Yeah, they're probably all qualified to be promoted to Student Supreme Court Justices, now.
 
2013-02-25 11:20:24 PM

debug: alleged rapist


Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?
:P
 
2013-02-25 11:20:29 PM
Genevieve Marie:
I think everyone needs to be taught that sex should happen when there is a clear and enthusiastic yes from both parties. If there's not? No dice.

me: 'wanna have sex?'
her: 'sure!  lemme get the whips!'
me: um...on second thought....'
her: 'oh i'm sorry, that's NOT the safety word we agreed on...'

I've had some uncomfortable dates where expectations needed to have been spelled out CLEARLY in advance.
 
2013-02-25 11:20:49 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me... Sounds like trouble to me.

Who even repeats themselves this way? Someone frothing with rage.


Or very elderly.  I think that was the effect IgG4 was going for.
 
2013-02-25 11:21:15 PM

Dokushin: You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape."  Just like no one had to tell me not to murder.  Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape.  There are criminals among us.  We need to do more to look after their mental health and to perhaps cure them of the diseases that destroy their ability to reason.  But men are not criminals, and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for others.   All men are not potential rapists, and they don't deserve to be treated like they are.


See above. You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing. There  are criminals among us, and your responsibility along with the rest of us is to tag them. Only then will we get to a place where all men won't be treated as potential rapists and all women won't need to act as if that's reasonable:

Theaetetus: Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit  multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.
And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a  smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only about 10% or less of the population... and then no one, male or female, needs to live in fear. Because you'll be marked, and you'll be harmless.

There's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.

 
2013-02-25 11:22:02 PM

China White Tea: Holy shiat, it's amazing how few people seem capable of RTFA and following the plot.


sad to say, i'm not surprised much at all.
 
2013-02-25 11:22:04 PM

Barachiel: Wow, it's pretty tough for me to believe people are jumping at the chance to defend the guy.


TFA is lacking in some details
 
2013-02-25 11:22:16 PM

Theaetetus: Well, gosh, who's in the wrong in that situation?


Everyone.

Muckrakers don't make money if people didn't buy the muck they raked up.

Muckrakers wouldn't have muck to rake if people didn't do shiat in the first place.
 
2013-02-25 11:22:42 PM

Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.


She was probably just hammered.

She has no idea what happened, but she is a rape victim survivor warrior?
 
2013-02-25 11:23:22 PM

kendelrio: No, the point of that question is a friend of mine who I've lost touch woth and was a rape victum is named Genevieve an based on the vehemence with which this person comes into these threads with, I thought it may be her.

/not a rapist


No, I've never lived in Hawaii, and based on your opinions, I doubt we'd have been friends.

I'm passionate about these issues because I'm a woman, a feminist and oh yea: decent human beings get angry when they see a rape victim treated badly.
 
2013-02-25 11:23:58 PM

Weaver95: Genevieve Marie:
We like to think people rally behind the victim, but actually? There's always loud crowds of douchebags making sure to say "Well, you know she could be a liar". As a result? There are a whole lot more women whose rapists were never prosecuted than there EVER IN A MILLION YEARS will be "Men whose lives were ruined because the community rallied behind a rape victim and didn't believe in his innocence."

not to mention the part of the crowd that always believes that the rape victim was a slut who deserved what happened to her...now THAT is a mindset I find truly disturbing.  as if someone could 'deserve' rape.  these are the same people who see rape as a bonus every time someone gets sent to jail on a pot smoking charge.

mind boggling.


I'm telling you, there are predators in our midst. We need to start marking people on their foreheads, like Ash Wednesday, but with indelible ink or paintballs.
 
2013-02-25 11:24:00 PM

meow said the dog: doglover: Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

You supporting rapists isn't really surprising.  At all.

kendelrio: Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes,

Wow, did you just pull the "I have Black friends" but replaced Black with raped?  Awesome.


You are an ass.

I've helped my sister and friends cope with rapes. I've seen the depression, suicidal thoughts and absolute damage a rape does. I've seen absolutely friendly outgoing beautiful human beings destroyed because some asshole think he deserves whatever he's taking.

F*U*C*K* you and DIAF
 
2013-02-25 11:24:05 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me... Sounds like trouble to me.

Who even repeats themselves this way? Someone frothing with rage.


it-it- the f - it -flam - flames. Flames, on the side of my face, breathing-breathl- heaving breaths. Heaving breaths... Heathing...
 
2013-02-25 11:24:08 PM
I don't automatically believe everything I read, noone does; otherwise we wouldn't have discussions about new articles.

I know that women lie. Had a girl accuse me of 'undressing her with my eyes' in high school. No clue who she was, and I wasn't, because I'm gay.

Reading stories like this makes me glad I am. Women will make up 'facts' to fit the emotional narrative they want, and are generally (not all of them...) horrible people to deal with. I would guess that large numbers of psycho-ex-girlfriends have done more damage to society than the few predominantly male serial/mass killers.
 

If I were King of the World, all women would be locked in (not forced) breeding camps until menopause. Grandmothers are OK.
 
2013-02-25 11:24:25 PM
http://www.fark.com/comments/7612030/82730778#c82730778" target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7612030/82730778#c8 2730778">kendelrio: Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?

Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?


But yet you can't understand how any victim would not want to relive that, over and over again? You can't understand the invasiveness of a SANE exam, the stigma, or that some jackoff attorney will be accusing you in court of being a slut, drunk, stupid, etc. or just outright lying when you've already been pulled through hell? The fear of the investigators botching the case and getting all your efforts to bring justice thrown out of court, and then having to know that your tormentor walked?

Wow.... If your sister and, ahem, "friends", had the courage to report, I sincerely hope their efforts weren't in vain and that the rapists got theirs. However, that rarely happens, another reason why sexual assault victims often don't report at all. It's too easy for the case to be thrown out, bogged down, the victim discredited, and no resolution be provided.
 
2013-02-25 11:24:26 PM

cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?


Canola?
 
2013-02-25 11:24:49 PM

skullkrusher: UNC sucks!


This shiat would never go on at The University.

Honor code stops that shiat dead.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:13 PM

kendelrio: meow said the dog: doglover: Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

You supporting rapists isn't really surprising.  At all.

kendelrio: Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes,

Wow, did you just pull the "I have Black friends" but replaced Black with raped?  Awesome.

You are an ass.

I've helped my sister and friends cope with rapes. I've seen the depression, suicidal thoughts and absolute damage a rape does. I've seen absolutely friendly outgoing beautiful human beings destroyed because some asshole think he deserves whatever he's taking.

F*U*C*K* you and DIAF


Uh, you claim to have friends who have gone through rape, yet you jump at the chance to defend rapists.  You're the ass.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:19 PM

Barachiel: Wow, it's pretty tough for me to believe people are jumping at the chance to defend the guy.


Especially given that TFA isn't even really about that instance of rape.  It's not about Landen Gambill's assault, and it's not about her rapist.  It's about an accusation that the school is routinely dismissive of sexual assault claims.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:28 PM

Thunderpipes: She was probably just hammered.


Except for the part where she wasn't drinking, you are probably right.  She was physically assaulted, and perhaps it was via hammer.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:32 PM

Barachiel: Wow, it's pretty tough for me to believe people are jumping at the chance to defend the guy.


Trolls? In my Fark?
 
2013-02-25 11:25:34 PM

doglover: Theaetetus: Well, gosh, who's in the wrong in that situation?

Everyone.


... Holy fark. My hypothetical had:
(i) lazy sensationalist reporter who's at least recklessly defaming someone; and
(ii) legitimate victim who doesn't have enough details to name specific person but does the best she can;
and you say that both are wrong?

That is seriously farked up.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:36 PM

ModernLuddite: ///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.


Frankly, if women cried rape every time they went to bed with an incompetent man, then 99% of men would be in jail for rape by now.  Rape is what happens when you do something a woman doesn't WANT.

////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

It's not that women think every man is a rapist, per se.  We tend to think every man has the potential to be a rapist because it's impossible to tell the normal guys from the rapists until they're actually raping you.

//Agree to disagree.

You're kidding, right? Sorry, I don't think I'll ever be in a place where I think "Women cry rape for no reason and men are the aggrieved party in a rape trial" is a valid stance.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:50 PM

Voiceofreason01: Ambivalence: Heaven forbid we should hurt the rapist's fee fees.

There hasn't been a police investigation, no charges have been filed. All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university  If she was raped she needs to file a police report and let them handle it. This University "honor court" bullshiat isn't going to cut it. And if the University is guilty of anything it's not telling her that in the first place.


Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.
 
2013-02-25 11:25:50 PM

Weaver95: Genevieve Marie:
I think everyone needs to be taught that sex should happen when there is a clear and enthusiastic yes from both parties. If there's not? No dice.

me: 'wanna have sex?'
her: 'sure!  lemme get the whips!'
me: um...on second thought....'
her: 'oh i'm sorry, that's NOT the safety word we agreed on...'

I've had some uncomfortable dates where expectations needed to have been spelled out CLEARLY in advance.


No kidding. I can't tell you how many dates went bad because I confused "don't stop, don't stop" with "don't...stop!, don't... stop!"
 
2013-02-25 11:26:21 PM

kendelrio: F*U*C*K* you and DIAF


So now you aren't just supporting rape but also murder through burning the victim?  You are a winner!
 
2013-02-25 11:27:00 PM
Theaetetus:
I'm telling you, there are predators in our midst....

Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you? That's not funny. It's not pithy. It's not clever. You're defending women or anyone's honor by saying these things. It is not Justice. It is pretty stupid though, so you've got that going for you.
 
2013-02-25 11:27:13 PM
Thunderpipes(favorite: Pro-rape sociopath) : She was probably just hammered.

She has no idea what happened, but she is a rape victim survivor warrior?


The best part of this is that you destroy your own credibility. I'm merely marking you for future reference.
 
2013-02-25 11:27:42 PM

Kaenneth: I know that women lie. Had a girl accuse me of 'undressing her with my eyes' in high school. No clue who she was, and I wasn't, because I'm gay.


So one woman, one time, misread the way you were looking at her and accused you of doing something rude but legal and your conclusion from this one relatively harmless interaction with one member of the gender that makes up half the human race is "Women are psycho liars who should be locked in camps"?

Sounds legit.
 
2013-02-25 11:27:43 PM

cowgirl toffee: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie:
I think everyone needs to be taught that sex should happen when there is a clear and enthusiastic yes from both parties. If there's not? No dice.

me: 'wanna have sex?'
her: 'sure!  lemme get the whips!'
me: um...on second thought....'
her: 'oh i'm sorry, that's NOT the safety word we agreed on...'

I've had some uncomfortable dates where expectations needed to have been spelled out CLEARLY in advance.

No kidding. I can't tell you how many dates went bad because I confused "don't stop, don't stop" with "don't...stop!, don't... stop!"


I've learned to read the fine print.
 
2013-02-25 11:28:39 PM

doglover: cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?

Canola?


Yes. But, you can also use baby oil and a tarp. (?)
;)
 
2013-02-25 11:28:59 PM

IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?

Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit  multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.
And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a  smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that yo ...


Uhh, the "right direction" would be not identifying the "rapist" in ALL cases until a conviction is made.  Why?  Because unlike you farking Dworkinites and followers of Catherine Comins, there is NOTHING to be learned from a false rape accusation.

For those that need the quote, "men who are unjustly accused can sometimes gain from the experience. "They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions."
 
2013-02-25 11:29:26 PM

ModernLuddite: Molavian: shiat, I barely raped anyone in college.

Molavian raped me.


Oh, pipe down.  Just because you don't like anal is no reason to accuse him of rape.
 
2013-02-25 11:30:29 PM

Theaetetus: ... Holy fark. My hypothetical had


Yeah, I didn't read your crap. I just read the first sentence and answered off of real life.

I didn't figure you'd make a good hypothetical and y'know Walking Dead is on.
 
2013-02-25 11:31:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Voiceofreason01: Ambivalence: Heaven forbid we should hurt the rapist's fee fees.

There hasn't been a police investigation, no charges have been filed. All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university  If she was raped she needs to file a police report and let them handle it. This University "honor court" bullshiat isn't going to cut it. And if the University is guilty of anything it's not telling her that in the first place.

Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.


Three is many?
 
2013-02-25 11:31:26 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-25 11:31:44 PM

IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?

Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit  multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.
And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a  smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only ab ...


Problem?


Trolling? No. More like you got caught with a stupid, idiotic set of comments and you're trying to back out. Try again next time. Or better yet, don't.
 
2013-02-25 11:32:16 PM

cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?

Canola?

Yes. But, you can also use baby oil and a tarp. (?)
;)


No, only Canola is made out of 100% Canadian rape.
 
2013-02-25 11:33:01 PM
My prediction: If it hasn't already happened, it won't be long before the internet thinks to itself, "And just who are the individuals running the UNC Student Attorney General's office?"  

Approximately five seconds after that, they will come across the staff page for the UNC SAG, along with the roster of current members.

Not long after that, at least a few of the people on that list are probably going to come to the sudden realization that the only way you get national press as a "student attorney general" is if you have severely farked up, at which point they'll start desperately trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
 
2013-02-25 11:34:20 PM
BarkingUnicorn:
Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Check some of my other posts in this thread. There's absolutely no real evidence of any kind presented in this article or the ones linked ITFA. This is absolutely the last situation that should be treated to a public forum such as an article in Huff Po or Jezabel. When the matter of rape is brought up tempers tend to run high which is why this is a matter for the police. It needs to be decided in a court of law not the court of public opinion. And so far it seems to have been handled VERY badly by pretty much everyone involved.
 
2013-02-25 11:34:38 PM

Somacandra: FTFA: the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may have violated the school's Honor Code,[i.imgur.com image 340x255]

Uh oh, looks like we got a GED in Law over here. That kangaroo court will fold faster than Superman on laundry day. Send over a real writ of mandamus from a state judge and tell me how long it lasts.


Shouldn't that be the Flash on laundry day?  After all, Superman is known for his strength, not his speed.
 
2013-02-25 11:35:42 PM
The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.
 
2013-02-25 11:36:09 PM

ciberido: Shouldn't that be the Flash on laundry day?  After all, Superman is known for his strength, not his speed.


Superman can fly so fast that he turns back time. I think that counts.
 
2013-02-25 11:36:32 PM

China White Tea: My prediction: If it hasn't already happened, it won't be long before the internet thinks to itself, "And just who are the individuals running the UNC Student Attorney General's office?"  

Approximately five seconds after that, they will come across the staff page for the UNC SAG, along with the roster of current members.

Not long after that, at least a few of the people on that list are probably going to come to the sudden realization that the only way you get national press as a "student attorney general" is if you have severely farked up, at which point they'll start desperately trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.


yeah, once something like this hits the intertubes there's a good chance it's going to escalate rapidly out of control.  Or it could fizzle and nothing happens.  you just can't tell.

what I do know is that its a risk I wouldn't wanna take.  If I were the school i'd have STFU and let the students make their suggestions, then make some changes in school policy.  they'd have gone away, it wouldn't be all over the 'net, and nobody would be talking to the feds about any of this.
 
2013-02-25 11:36:38 PM

doglover: cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?

Canola?

Yes. But, you can also use baby oil and a tarp. (?)
;)

No, only Canola is made out of 100% Canadian rape.


Hummmm....
Regardless, you should still try the baby oil and the tarp. Seriously. :D
 
2013-02-25 11:36:50 PM
I'm relatively certain a real lawyer is seeing this, and salivating at the prospect of sticking it to this stupid ass "Honor Court" system.  Speak to a real lawyer, give them a week to prepare and they'll go into that meeting spouting off about first amendment rights being infringed upon, and threatening the honor court and the "student attorney general" with a lawsuit and they'll cave.

Then, go to the real police, report the sexual assault and stalking and go from there.

I'll NEVER understand why people who are victims of crime insist upon going to their school, or employer, to have those allegations investigated.  If somebody sexually assaulted me, I'd first call the police and THEN inform the school so that they may begin an investigation to possibly expel the person, while the police are working the criminal aspect of it.

Farking UNC.
 
2013-02-25 11:37:42 PM

Voiceofreason01: BarkingUnicorn:
Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Check some of my other posts in this thread. There's absolutely no real evidence of any kind presented in this article or the ones linked ITFA. This is absolutely the last situation that should be treated to a public forum such as an article in Huff Po or Jezabel. When the matter of rape is brought up tempers tend to run high which is why this is a matter for the police. It needs to be decided in a court of law not the court of public opinion. And so far it seems to have been handled VERY badly by pretty much everyone involved.


again, you miss the point.
 
2013-02-25 11:37:47 PM

ciberido: After all, Superman is known for his strength, not his speed.


This has to be the trolliest thing I've read in this thread so far, and I've been reading my own posts.
 
2013-02-25 11:37:59 PM

Somacandra: FTFA: the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may have violated the school's Honor Code,[i.imgur.com image 340x255]

Uh oh, looks like we got a GED in Law over here. That kangaroo court will fold faster than Superman on laundry day. Send over a real writ of mandamus from a state judge and tell me how long it lasts.

/graduate student attorney general? give me a farking break


instead of flexing your jurisprudential muscles and asking us to tell you how long it lasts, why don't you get on that?
 
2013-02-25 11:38:43 PM

bigwf2007: BarkingUnicorn: Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Three is many?


No, but 67 is: "On Wednesday, Pino and UNC alumna Annie Clark, supported by fellow UNC student Landen Gambill -- all sexual assault survivors -- filed a formal complaint with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights on behalf of themselves and those 64 other victims, whose names are being kept confidential."
 
2013-02-25 11:40:34 PM
cowgirl toffee:
No kidding. I can't tell you how many dates went bad because I confused "don't stop, don't stop" with "don't...stop!, don't... stop!"

People who use double negatives deserve the consequences.

Genevieve Marie:
So one woman, one time, misread the way you were looking at her and accused you of doing something rude but legal and your conclusion from this one relatively harmless interaction with one member of the gender that makes up half the human race is "Women are psycho liars who should be locked in camps"?

Sounds legit.


Just one example; I ain't getting paid to write articles.
 
2013-02-25 11:40:40 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.



I wouldn't go quite that far, but "I bet she's lying!" is a damned odd response to the article.  I'm not sure if that would be better or worse than, "Sure, she was raped, but she's a troublemaker to make such a fuss about it."

They're both rather troubling responses to this story.
 
2013-02-25 11:40:51 PM

evaned: bigwf2007: BarkingUnicorn: Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Three is many?

No, but 67 is: "On Wednesday, Pino and UNC alumna Annie Clark, supported by fellow UNC student Landen Gambill -- all sexual assault survivors -- filed a formal complaint with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights on behalf of themselves and those 64 other victims, whose names are being kept confidential."


doesnt sound like they were signatories to the complaint
 
2013-02-25 11:40:55 PM
So, when do we stop reinforcing this "It's the woman's fault" crap.  I'm kinda tired of punishing rape victims for speaking out.

Anyone?

//I've seen it first hand where a rape victim was browbeaten, by her family (not mine), into accepting it was her fault for "dressing like a slut".
 
2013-02-25 11:40:59 PM
Just the good ole boys...
 
2013-02-25 11:40:59 PM

Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.


You're a lawyer. You don't get to lecture anyone on ethical behavior.
 
2013-02-25 11:41:44 PM

Genevieve Marie: ModernLuddite: ///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

"I think rape accusations are always false because all it is is someone doing something to a woman that she doesn't like sexually"- the implication being that women don't have any right to say no and have that respected.

And you know, if all the women you meet act like you might be a rapist, you might want to think long and hard about why that is.

/Pro tip: It's because you sound like a rapist.



This is the moral equivalent of saying "if all the men you meet want to rape you, you might want to think long and hard about why that is."  (because you dress like you want them to).

There are likely scores of men sitting in prison who were falsely convicted of rape (not because they are the wrong man, but because no rape occurred).  There are also thousands of women who have been raped and for which no person has been convicted of doing it.  Why does anyone feel the need to pick one side over the other instead of supporting a system that would reduce both?
 
2013-02-25 11:41:45 PM

evaned: bigwf2007: BarkingUnicorn: Oh, it's much bigger than that.  She is only one of many who signed the complaint.  A pattern of covering up rape is alleged.  If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Three is many?

No, but 67 is: "On Wednesday, Pino and UNC alumna Annie Clark, supported by fellow UNC student Landen Gambill -- all sexual assault survivors -- filed a formal complaint with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights on behalf of themselves and those 64 other victims, whose names are being kept confidential."


There are then only three names on the complaint. Five according to some other reports. That's still not many.
 
2013-02-25 11:41:47 PM
Weaver95:
again, you miss the point.

What point? That UNC needs to encourage it's students that have been victims of crimes that they need to go to the police? Because if so I agree. If you're implying that there's some kind of coverup going on, then(as a completely uninvolved bystander) I'm going to need to see some evidence first before I'm on board with that interpretation of events.
 
2013-02-25 11:42:13 PM
As someone who's been on the receiving end of a false accusation of rape (crazy what people will do when you decide to divorce them), but all I see is negligence on the school's part.
 
2013-02-25 11:42:27 PM

Maestro1701: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

You're a lawyer. You don't get to lecture anyone on ethical behavior.


For every unethical lawyer, there's an ethical one on the other side. Benefit of our adversarial system.

/plus, I'm not a litigator. They're all a bunch of ulcer-ridden coke heads.
 
2013-02-25 11:42:32 PM

BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.


FTA: "When I went to report my assault in 2007, I asked an administrator what the process would look like," Clark said. "Instead, that person told me, 'Rape is like a football game, Annie. If you look back on the game, and you're the quarterback and you're in charge, is there anything that you would have done differently in that situation?'"

Is everything a sports metaphor to these clods?
 
2013-02-25 11:43:02 PM
I would say UNC should go die in a fire, but that would be redundant.
 
2013-02-25 11:43:06 PM
Maestro1701:
You're a lawyer. You don't get to lecture anyone on ethical behavior.

actually, lawyers have ethics.  no morality mind you but ethics.  and if they fail to follow their ethical rules they can lose their license.

now, politicians and systems administrators...THOSE people have no ethics.
 
2013-02-25 11:43:16 PM

Barachiel: Wow, it's pretty tough for me to believe people are jumping at the chance to defend the guy.


Account created: 2007-11-19 09:07:34


Have you never seen a rape thread before?  Or one of the endless "Autobiography of Doglover X" threads?  Cause you clearly are not new here.
 
2013-02-25 11:43:17 PM

cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?

Canola?

Yes. But, you can also use baby oil and a tarp. (?)
;)

No, only Canola is made out of 100% Canadian rape.

Hummmm....
Regardless, you should still try the baby oil and the tarp. Seriously. :D



Do ya'll remember Planescape: Tourment? The one item you couldn't buy from the curio shoppe was "Pure Baby Oil, pressed from 1000 babies"

Considering what you COULD buy in that game, it's odd you couldn't buy the oil, really.
 
2013-02-25 11:43:25 PM

ks1415: /current UNC student
//you would not believe the reaction this got today


Oh, DO tell us, please!  Burning dumpsters everywhere, I hope.
 
2013-02-25 11:43:36 PM

Cataholic: Genevieve Marie: ModernLuddite: ///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

"I think rape accusations are always false because all it is is someone doing something to a woman that she doesn't like sexually"- the implication being that women don't have any right to say no and have that respected.

And you know, if all the women you meet act like you might be a rapist, you might want to think long and hard about why that is.

/Pro tip: It's because you sound like a rapist.


This is the moral equivalent of saying "if all the men you meet want to rape you, you might want to think long and hard about why that is."  (because you dress like you want them to).


Not all the men that meet a woman want to rape her, and I'm disgusted that you would think that's possible. It says a lot about your opinion of normalcy.
 
2013-02-25 11:43:49 PM

ciberido: Theaetetus: IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up.  Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.
And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.


I wouldn't go quite that far, but "I bet she's lying!" is a damned odd response to the article.  I'm not sure if that would be better or worse than, "Sure, she was raped, but she's a troublemaker to make such a fuss about it."

They're both rather troubling responses to this story.


We don't have any reason to believe that she's lying and this "honor court" sounds like a huge load of bullshiat (as if they name itself didn't give that away already). However, it sounds like she accused her ex-boyfriend in front of this honor court and he was exonerated and now this same court is threatening her with "harassment" for continuing to speak out about the attack and further accuse her innocent (in the eyes of the honor court) ex-boyfriend.

It's a farked up complicated story and this girl got fooked but I think there's more going on here
 
2013-02-25 11:44:12 PM

Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.


What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order
 
2013-02-25 11:44:13 PM

Hagenhatesyouall: Was the dude convicted of raping her?

If so, the school is farked.

If not, then that biatch needs to shut the fark up and suck up some slander charges.


Yes, women are scary, we know.
 
2013-02-25 11:44:40 PM

Cataholic: There are likely scores of men sitting in prison who were falsely convicted of rape (not because they are the wrong man, but because no rape occurred). There are also thousands of women who have been raped and for which no person has been convicted of doing it. Why does anyone feel the need to pick one side over the other instead of supporting a system that would reduce both?


Because there's no evidence of a systemic problem that targets men with false accusations nor is there any substantive evidence that false rape accusations are a pervasive problem?

And no, telling someone that their attitudes towards women are creepy and wrong and that it probably means women don't trust them and may fear them is a whole hell of a lot different than implying that someone who's dressing in a certain way is inviting sexual assault.
 
2013-02-25 11:45:49 PM

meat0918: So, when do we stop reinforcing this "It's the woman's fault" crap.  I'm kinda tired of punishing rape victims for speaking out.

Anyone?

//I've seen it first hand where a rape victim was browbeaten, by her family (not mine), into accepting it was her fault for "dressing like a slut".


When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?

Remember, even a false, completely unfounded accusation can completely ruin a man's life, and that happens all the time. Both women, and men need to be protected, but the law only protects women.

We need extremely tough false accusation laws, to award large damages to men falsely accused.
 
2013-02-25 11:45:58 PM

bigwf2007: There are then only three names on the complaint. Five according to some other reports. That's still not many.


Al, Bob, Charlie, and John Does 1-64 v. University of North Carolina counts as 67 complainants. And trust me, the court knows who all of those anonymous 64 are.
 
2013-02-25 11:46:07 PM

BSABSVR: Have you never seen a rape thread before?  Or one of the endless "Autobiography of Doglover X" threads?  Cause you clearly are not new here.


I'm assuming sarcasm on his part. Seriously, Fark has so many rape defenders I'm surprised it's not on some kind of watch list.
 
2013-02-25 11:46:32 PM

HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order


I was a child in the 80s and the 90s and we were told once or twice to respect a woman's wishes and that was enough because we weren't a bunch of knuckledragging farking savages
 
2013-02-25 11:46:39 PM

ultraholland: Rapist charged with on her code violation.


I once got charged with a code violation.  It wasn't rape rape, but it was rape.

SlothB77: the rapist must be on the basketball team.  or football team or lax team.


Winnar winnar chicken dinnar.
 
2013-02-25 11:47:08 PM

Thunderpipes: When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?


The Duke Lacrosse team was exonerated, very publicly, and was not sent to prison.

It was also one case. Does it not strike you as odd that it's the only false accuser story people ever bring up?
 
2013-02-25 11:47:14 PM

Thunderpipes: meat0918: So, when do we stop reinforcing this "It's the woman's fault" crap.  I'm kinda tired of punishing rape victims for speaking out.

Anyone?

//I've seen it first hand where a rape victim was browbeaten, by her family (not mine), into accepting it was her fault for "dressing like a slut".

When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?

Remember, even a false, completely unfounded accusation can completely ruin a man's life, and that happens all the time. Both women, and men need to be protected, but the law only protects women.

We need extremely tough false accusation laws, to award large damages to men falsely accused.


they were lacrosse players. They didn't rape that girl but it was only a matter of time
 
2013-02-25 11:48:19 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: Sidenote to all of Fark's pro-rape white knights: You are aware that the only thing you're succeeding in is making yourselves look guilty of rape as well, right? I'm not going to say that you are rapists (obviously, most of you are just trolls), but that's what it looks like. That goes for every rape thread, by the way, not just this one.


That was a really stupid thing to say.
 
2013-02-25 11:48:31 PM

Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?

The Duke Lacrosse team was exonerated, very publicly, and was not sent to prison.

It was also one case. Does it not strike you as odd that it's the only false accuser story people ever bring up?


aww cmon, Tawana is a much better one. You get to nail Sharpton on that one too. Double bonus score.
 
2013-02-25 11:48:51 PM

Dafatone: But say the phrase "rape culture" and everyone yells at you.


To echo something from a previous thread, it's really, really sad that I need an "anti-rape" tag for Fark.  Because the existence of such a tag as "anti-rape" suggests that there are people out there who need to be tagged as "pro-rape."

This thread is a little depressing in that regard.
 
2013-02-25 11:49:04 PM

Voiceofreason01: Weaver95:
again, you miss the point.

What point? That UNC needs to encourage it's students that have been victims of crimes that they need to go to the police? Because if so I agree. If you're implying that there's some kind of coverup going on, then(as a completely uninvolved bystander) I'm going to need to see some evidence first before I'm on board with that interpretation of events.


lemme put it to you this way:

student: 'I was raped.  I reported it to the cops.  i'm in therapy and i'm having a bad day.  can you give me a break?  maybe cut me some slack?'
university: 'no.  and don't go telling anyone about it either or we'll destroy your reputation forever.  man up and walk it off.'
student: 'I wanna appeal.'
university president" 'appeal denied. now go walk it off, ya lazy slut'.
student: 'this is crappy customer service.'  [goes public]  LOOK AT THIS CRAPPY CUSTOMER SERVICE! I GET BETTER TREATMENT AT A MCDONALDS WINDOW!'
university: 'ok that's it - yer f*cked now biatch.'
Fedgov: 'well now, she might have a point.  that was some mighty bad customer service.'
internet goons: 'slutty biatch.  she probably WANTED to be raped.'
everyone else: [makes disgusted faces] 'assholes'.
 
2013-02-25 11:49:28 PM

skullkrusher: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I was a child in the 80s and the 90s and we were told once or twice to respect a woman's wishes and that was enough because we weren't a bunch of knuckledragging farking savages


Actually, there are almost no school programs that teach consent. That's actually one of the bigger problems with abstinence education- it reinforces rape culture. The idea that you should always say no is totally at odds with human nature, and not only does it present some problems as far as teaching birth control and reproductive health, it also presents some problems as far as sexual consent goes.

If you tell people they're not ever allowed to say yes, and when that's particularly focused on women, a very screwy sexual dynamic emerges.
 
2013-02-25 11:50:09 PM

skullkrusher: they were lacrosse players. They didn't rape that girl but it was only a matter of time



i133.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-25 11:50:11 PM

Weaver95: Voiceofreason01: Weaver95:
again, you miss the point.

What point? That UNC needs to encourage it's students that have been victims of crimes that they need to go to the police? Because if so I agree. If you're implying that there's some kind of coverup going on, then(as a completely uninvolved bystander) I'm going to need to see some evidence first before I'm on board with that interpretation of events.

lemme put it to you this way:

student: 'I was raped.  I reported it to the cops.  i'm in therapy and i'm having a bad day.  can you give me a break?  maybe cut me some slack?'
university: 'no.  and don't go telling anyone about it either or we'll destroy your reputation forever.  man up and walk it off.'
student: 'I wanna appeal.'
university president" 'appeal denied. now go walk it off, ya lazy slut'.
student: 'this is crappy customer service.'  [goes public]  LOOK AT THIS CRAPPY CUSTOMER SERVICE! I GET BETTER TREATMENT AT A MCDONALDS WINDOW!'
university: 'ok that's it - yer f*cked now biatch.'
Fedgov: 'well now, she might have a point.  that was some mighty bad customer service.'
internet goons: 'slutty biatch.  she probably WANTED to be raped.'
everyone else: [makes disgusted faces] 'assholes'.


Why does that seem like copypasta from a different college wants to cover up rape thread?
 
2013-02-25 11:50:25 PM

Theaetetus: Maestro1701: Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Hey, everyone! Sociopath Alert! Set your Farkies.

IgG4:"But I'm just making a joke! Get a sense of humor!"

Sure, sure, Sociopath.
[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
We're on to your kind.

What the hell are you talking about?

The proper response is, "oh, shiat, I didn't mean that seriously. Gosh, I now realize that was as inappropriate as McFarlane's jokes last night. I disavow that entire post and beg forgiveness."

Helpful tip: you can copy-paste the above via the edit menu.

You're a lawyer. You don't get to lecture anyone on ethical behavior.

For every unethical lawyer, there's an ethical one on the other side. Benefit of our adversarial system.

/plus, I'm not a litigator. They're all a bunch of ulcer-ridden coke heads.


My bad. Carry on.
 
2013-02-25 11:50:37 PM

Thunderpipes: We need extremely tough false accusation laws, to award large damages to men falsely accused.


See above -
(i) rape victim, covered in jizz, bruises, and scratches can't identify her rapist, but gives a description;
(ii) police round up people matching that description and prosecutor charges them without waiting for DNA evidence; and
(iii) overzealous reporter claims all of the people are rapists, baby farkers, puppy torturers, and terrorists.

Which one or ones would you charge with crimes or civil penalties?
 
2013-02-25 11:50:44 PM

Ryan2065: bigwf2007: Landen Gambill is the one who claims she is being threatened with an honor code violation for talking about her "rape.". She is the one who reported her boyfriend for an honor code violation for raping her. But I haven't found any explanation in any story I've read for why she didn't go to the police.

No, she isn't...  She was in an abusive relationship (sexually and verbally) with her boyfriend and when she ended the relationship he started to stalk her. She reported him for an honor code violation for stalking her. I'm guessing she just wanted it to stop and thought that was the easiest way to make it happen. For her efforts:

Link


When the relationship ended, she said she was met with months of stalking, threats and harassment.

Those actions lead her to press charges with the Honor Court. In her trial, Gambill said she was forced to answer irrelevant and inappropriate questions.

"The woman student said to me, 'Landen, as a woman, I know that if that had happened to me, I would've broken up with him the first time it happened. Will you explain to me why you didn't?'" she said.

Gambill said the court used her history of clinical depression and her suicide attempt - which she said was a result of her abusive relationship - against her.

"They implied that I was emotionally unstable and couldn't be telling the truth because I had attempted suicide," she said.


Gambill said the court's ignorance reflected a complete lack of training.

But Judicial Programs Officer Erik Hunter said the Honor Court members and the student attorney general's staff received a full day of training after the interim procedures were implemented.


Holy CRAP.

Jesus.  My school had a poor excuse for mental health counseling (especially considered the sophisticated and thorough mental heath counseling patients at the medical school got, seemed like they couldn't be bothered to provide much to the students directly) but goddamn.  That's appalling.

rynthetyn: And universities are notorious for covering things up if it might possibly make the school look bad. You often have to at least threaten to report to a federal agency to get things moving. I had to threaten to play that card on behalf of my sister when our college wouldn't do anything about her being sexually harassed by some other students. Suddenly when I pointed out that their federal funding was in trouble if my sister decided to go to the feds over their Title IX violations, they decided to take things a lot more seriously.

I'm sure she's told you this: but thank you for being awesome.
 
2013-02-25 11:51:03 PM

doglover: cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?

Canola?

Yes. But, you can also use baby oil and a tarp. (?)
;)

No, only Canola is made out of 100% Canadian rape.

Hummmm....
Regardless, you should still try the baby oil and the tarp. Seriously. :D


Do ya'll remember Planescape: Tourment? The one item you couldn't buy from the curio shoppe was "Pure Baby Oil, pressed from 1000 babies"

Considering what you COULD buy in that game, it's odd you couldn't buy the oil, really.


That would make the game wrong...just wrong! ...in all the right ways. :D
 
2013-02-25 11:51:04 PM

Theaetetus: I'm not a litigator. They're all a bunch of ulcer-ridden coke heads.


It's true that litigation is more stressful than almost any other practice of law (except family law), but medical studies have shown that stress does not actually cause ulcers.  And we tend to drink Diet Coke or tea, because we're more health conscious than the fat f*cks doing transactional law.
 
2013-02-25 11:51:06 PM

Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
Glad to know you guys have your talking points straight. It makes it easier to identify you.

Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody. I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.


Yeah, you've called me a troll before, too.  I bet you've found a lot of trolls on Fark, haven't you?
 
2013-02-25 11:51:07 PM

skullkrusher: doesnt sound like they were signatories to the complaint


bigwf2007: There are then only three names on the complaint. Five according to some other reports. That's still not many.


That's true, or rather is probably true. Either the complaint isn't publicly available or I just can't find it. But the discussion was about how big UNC's coverup operation is. If the complaint is substantiated, then the 60+ number is more relevant.
 
2013-02-25 11:51:18 PM
Clark said it was the hostile culture she experienced from administrators that prompted her to file a complaint.

"When I went to report my assault in 2007, I asked an administrator what the process would look like," Clark said. "Instead, that person told me, 'Rape is like a football game, Annie. If you look back on the game, and you're the quarterback and you're in charge, is there anything that you would have done differently in that situation?'"


From the Daily Tar Heel.
 
2013-02-25 11:51:36 PM

Theaetetus: Hagenhatesyouall: Was the dude convicted of raping her?

If so, the school is farked.

If not, then that biatch needs to shut the fark up and suck up some slander charges.

Whup, got another sociopath! "If the rapist isn't convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, then the accuser is guilty of lying and we don't need trials or anything."
Tag him and bag him.


i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-25 11:52:06 PM
meat0918:
Why does that seem like copypasta from a different college wants to cover up rape thread?

universities DO NOT like scandals.  they don't like it when crimes happen on campus, they don't want to talk about it, they don't want to admit it happens and they sure as hell don't want to see it reported in the newspapers.  they'd rather just sweep the allegations under the rug and pretend nothing happened.
 
2013-02-25 11:52:12 PM

Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I was a child in the 80s and the 90s and we were told once or twice to respect a woman's wishes and that was enough because we weren't a bunch of knuckledragging farking savages

Actually, there are almost no school programs that teach consent. That's actually one of the bigger problems with abstinence education- it reinforces rape culture. The idea that you should always say no is totally at odds with human nature, and not only does it present some problems as far as teaching birth control and reproductive health, it also presents some problems as far as sexual consent goes.

If you tell people they're not ever allowed to say yes, and when that's particularly focused on women, a very screwy sexual dynamic emerges.


that's why I was given a dad I guess
 
2013-02-25 11:52:47 PM
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-02-25 11:53:04 PM

gadian: Has he been convicted?  I'm not a GED holding law type, but I imagine that plays into the harassment angle just a little bit.


Hagenhatesyouall: Was the dude convicted of raping her?


Voiceofreason01: All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university


atomicmask: Maybe she should wait for her "alleged" rapist to be convicted so its no longer an "Alleged" case and its a convicted case, other wise its just defaming the character of someone.


FTFA: "Honor Code violation for 'disruptive or intimidating behavior' against her alleged rapist, although she has never publicly named him."

She says she was raped, she says that she went to the school and nothing was done, she found other sexual assault victims who went through the same thing. She is now "part of a group that filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse."

There is nothing at all that could be considered libelous, according to the article.
 
2013-02-25 11:54:09 PM

Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?

The Duke Lacrosse team was exonerated, very publicly, and was not sent to prison.

It was also one case. Does it not strike you as odd that it's the only false accuser story people ever bring up?


It was a joke......

I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well, and a woman on the board no less telling the chick she is a douche, I side with the college. Months of this evil abusive boyfriend, and then she goes to the college to get the guy in trouble? She was right. First time a guy abuses you, leave. Christ, not like she was married with kids and dependent either. And she was depressed and had suicide attempts? Crazy chick.

The other girl with head wound, go to the police, let them handle it.
 
2013-02-25 11:54:16 PM

ModernLuddite: Goofus goes public with accusations of a crime.

Gallant calls the police and provides evidentiary support.


Goofus DNRTFA and posts really, really dumb crap.
 
2013-02-25 11:54:19 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: "The woman student said to me, 'Landen, as a woman, I know that if that had happened to me, I would've broken up with him the first time it happened. Will you explain to me why you didn't?'" she said.

Gambill said the court used her history of clinical depression and her suicide attempt - which she said was a result of her abusive relationship - against her.

"They implied that I was emotionally unstable and couldn't be telling the truth because I had attempted suicide," she said.



Fark that shiat.  Name names.  Hell, got a transcript?  Surely the Student Attorney General has a stenographer, right?
 
2013-02-25 11:54:26 PM

Weaver95: Voiceofreason01: Weaver95:
you weren't paying attention, were you?

There aren't enough details in the article to know anything for sure other than someone, somewhere is outraged. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that's pretty damning if you look at it from a certain point of view but no hard evidence. Am I supposed to be outraged by this?

if you follow along with the links embedded in the story, there are certainly more details than you seem to have noticed.  besides, the details of the rape aren't at issue.  the schools handling of the situation is what's at stake.


Well for the girl in this story she never went to the police to report her ex for the prior abuse and stalking. She went to the Honor Court instead to have him kicked out of school, and that was her mistake there. The Honor Court doesn't have any power to investigate, only thing they are going to do is listen to both sides and decide who is telling the truth, and it seems like they didn't believe her. I wonder if she ever filled a police report against him.
 
2013-02-25 11:54:39 PM
Christ, what a bunch of assholes.
 
2013-02-25 11:55:10 PM

Theaetetus: Thunderpipes: We need extremely tough false accusation laws, to award large damages to men falsely accused.

See above -
(i) rape victim, covered in jizz, bruises, and scratches can't identify her rapist, but gives a description;
(ii) police round up people matching that description and prosecutor charges them without waiting for DNA evidence; and
(iii) overzealous reporter claims all of the people are rapists, baby farkers, puppy torturers, and terrorists.

Which one or ones would you charge with crimes or civil penalties?


Hyperbole at its finest.
 
2013-02-25 11:55:16 PM
Thunderpipes:
I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well, and a woman on the board no less telling the chick she is a douche, I side with the college. Months of this evil abusive boyfriend, and then she goes to the college to get the guy in trouble? She was right. First time a guy abuses you, leave. Christ, not like she was married with kids and dependent either. And she was depressed and had suicide attempts? Crazy chick.

The other girl with head wound, go to the police, let them handle it.


its like you suffer from some form of mental disease or something....
 
2013-02-25 11:56:39 PM

Weaver95: meat0918:
Why does that seem like copypasta from a different college wants to cover up rape thread?

universities DO NOT like scandals.  they don't like it when crimes happen on campus, they don't want to talk about it, they don't want to admit it happens and they sure as hell don't want to see it reported in the newspapers.  they'd rather just sweep the allegations under the rug and pretend nothing happened.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laura_Dickinson

You don't say.

And relevant to *this* thread...

Shortly after the Dec. 2006 episode, Eastern Michigan officials came under fire for the way they handled the incident. After Dickinson's body was found, the university released a statement to the media and Dickinson's parents saying they didn't believe foul play occurred.
An independent investigation and a U.S. Department of Education report found that the school had violated the Jeanne Clery Act, a federal law requiring colleges and universities to fully disclose any information regarding campus security issues.
 
2013-02-25 11:56:59 PM
Man, I should have done a lot more raping in college. I had no idea it was so easy to get away with.


MrHappyRotter: You can't spell rape without pear.


www.lolwut.com

Approves.
 
2013-02-25 11:57:54 PM

Thunderpipes: Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well


... North Carolina.
 
2013-02-25 11:58:39 PM

IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.


That's not how campus law works.  There is a 'legal' system in place and most campus issues are resolved there.  It's like binding arbitration, only with more rape.
 
2013-02-25 11:59:06 PM
i would think the school reacted to her criticisms or accusations that the administration doesn't care about victims, which may be true and would not surprise me (that they want to keep such things on the down-low, to protect the precious reputation of the school....)

to say she was penalized for "making her rapist unformfortable" seems a stretch, unless the school is really that farked up.
 
2013-02-25 11:59:33 PM

Weaver95: Thunderpipes:
I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well, and a woman on the board no less telling the chick she is a douche, I side with the college. Months of this evil abusive boyfriend, and then she goes to the college to get the guy in trouble? She was right. First time a guy abuses you, leave. Christ, not like she was married with kids and dependent either. And she was depressed and had suicide attempts? Crazy chick.

The other girl with head wound, go to the police, let them handle it.

its like you suffer from some form of mental disease or something....


How am I in any way wrong? Seriously. I am not. I am just not a panty waste crybaby head like most people. Dude hits you, leave. Story over. Sooner we stop allowing people to act like children and refuse to take responsibility for their actions, better we will be. Funny how society doesn't attack chicks that whip their husbands, huh?

Grow a pair, Cupcake.
 
2013-02-26 12:00:32 AM

ongbok: Weaver95: Voiceofreason01: Weaver95:
you weren't paying attention, were you?

There aren't enough details in the article to know anything for sure other than someone, somewhere is outraged. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that's pretty damning if you look at it from a certain point of view but no hard evidence. Am I supposed to be outraged by this?

if you follow along with the links embedded in the story, there are certainly more details than you seem to have noticed.  besides, the details of the rape aren't at issue.  the schools handling of the situation is what's at stake.

Well for the girl in this story she never went to the police to report her ex for the prior abuse and stalking. She went to the Honor Court instead to have him kicked out of school, and that was her mistake there. The Honor Court doesn't have any power to investigate, only thing they are going to do is listen to both sides and decide who is telling the truth, and it seems like they didn't believe her. I wonder if she ever filled a police report against him.


except that what you are saying is completely and in all ways wrong, sure.  even if you don't believe her story, there's STILL a bunch of other rape victims to consider.  but even that STILL misses the point.

here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad.  terrible, in fact.  horrific.  they pretended nothing was wrong.  assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM.  not to a court. not to the cops.  she had to prove rape...to the school.  on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done.  And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

the school disagreed and punished her for speaking up about their crappy customer service.
 
2013-02-26 12:01:14 AM

Thunderpipes: Funny how society doesn't attack chicks that whip their husbands, huh?


lol
Some men would pay good money for that kind of treatment.
 
2013-02-26 12:01:16 AM

Ryan2065: bigwf2007: Landen Gambill is the one who claims she is being threatened with an honor code violation for talking about her "rape.". She is the one who reported her boyfriend for an honor code violation for raping her. But I haven't found any explanation in any story I've read for why she didn't go to the police.

No, she isn't...  She was in an abusive relationship (sexually and verbally) with her boyfriend and when she ended the relationship he started to stalk her. She reported him for an honor code violation for stalking her. I'm guessing she just wanted it to stop and thought that was the easiest way to make it happen. For her efforts:

Link


When the relationship ended, she said she was met with months of stalking, threats and harassment.

Those actions lead her to press charges with the Honor Court. In her trial, Gambill said she was forced to answer irrelevant and inappropriate questions.

"The woman student said to me, 'Landen, as a woman, I know that if that had happened to me, I would've broken up with him the first time it happened. Will you explain to me why you didn't?'" she said.

Gambill said the court used her history of clinical depression and her suicide attempt - which she said was a result of her abusive relationship - against her.

"They implied that I was emotionally unstable and couldn't be telling the truth because I had attempted suicide," she said.

Gambill said the court's ignorance reflected a complete lack of training.

But Judicial Programs Officer Erik Hunter said the Honor Court members and the student attorney general's staff received a full day of training after the interim procedures were implemented.


From the article: "Obviously, I'm afraid. I never meant to make anyone mad at me [by speaking out]," Gambill told HuffPost. "I'm mostly surprised at just how crazy it is, that they're  willing to charge me with something just because my rapist is feeling uncomfortable."


She describes him as a rapist. The words rape or rapist appear four times in the Huffington Post article. The phrase "sexual assault" appears seven times.
 
2013-02-26 12:01:36 AM

Genevieve Marie: Actually, there are almost no school programs that teach consent. That's actually one of the bigger problems with abstinence education- it reinforces rape culture. The idea that you should always say no is totally at odds with human nature, and not only does it present some problems as far as teaching birth control and reproductive health, it also presents some problems as far as sexual consent goes.

If you tell people they're not ever allowed to say yes, and when that's particularly focused on women, a very screwy sexual dynamic emerges.


I must "this" this.  If you indoctrinate women from an early age to see all men as dangerous predators to be warded off with voodoo, what happens when the young woman meets a man she doesn't want to scare away?  How does the young woman react if a man she doesn't want tries to take without giving her a chance to say no?  You end up with more date rape, and sexual assault from platonic friends.  Empowering women to be sexually aggressive can, IMHO, go a long way to helping them feel more comfortable stopping a toucher dead in his tracks.  Figuratively, of course.

Not that any of that would have much effect on real violent psychopaths.
 
2013-02-26 12:01:45 AM
For some fresh outrage, I read this the other day, and spent some time trying to wrap my mind around it.

During an interview in her office, she offered a chilling example of a local woman who "got drunk at a party and passed out.

"She was raped by a couple of guys while her boyfriend filmed it," she said. "When she came to the next day, her boyfriend showed her the film of her having sex with these men and told her, 'I'm posting this on your Facebook page unless you let me pimp you out.' That's trafficking. That's coercion."


Dealing in flesh
 
2013-02-26 12:02:02 AM

Theaetetus: Thunderpipes: Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well

... North Carolina.


Doesn't matter. All colleges are liberal, period, even in Texas. And ya, that crazy NC, soooooooo conservative!!! 2.2%, that is like a million!

RWinner M. Romney50.6%2,275,853DB. Obama (i)48.4%2,178,388
 
2013-02-26 12:02:05 AM
Thunderpipes:
How am I in any way wrong? Seriously. I am not. I am just not a panty waste crybaby head like most people. Dude hits you, leave. Story over. Sooner we stop allowing people to act like children and refuse to take responsibility for their actions, better we will be. Funny how society doesn't attack chicks that whip their husbands, huh?

Grow a pair, Cupcake.


like I said...it's like you suffer from a mental disease or something.
 
2013-02-26 12:03:04 AM

Weaver95: Thunderpipes:
How am I in any way wrong? Seriously. I am not. I am just not a panty waste crybaby head like most people. Dude hits you, leave. Story over. Sooner we stop allowing people to act like children and refuse to take responsibility for their actions, better we will be. Funny how society doesn't attack chicks that whip their husbands, huh?

Grow a pair, Cupcake.

like I said...it's like you suffer from a mental disease or something.


It is called intelligence, something this board suffers a lack of.

I think your wife called, she wants her sammich, now!
 
2013-02-26 12:03:12 AM

Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I was a child in the 80s and the 90s and we were told once or twice to respect a woman's wishes and that was enough because we weren't a bunch of knuckledragging farking savages

Actually, there are almost no school programs that teach consent. That's actually one of the bigger problems with abstinence education- it reinforces rape culture. The idea that you should always say no is totally at odds with human nature, and not only does it present some problems as far as teaching birth control and reproductive health, it also presents some problems as far as sexual consent goes.

If you tell people they're not ever allowed to say yes, and when that's particularly focused on women, a very screwy sexual dynamic emerges.


My high school must have been very progressive then in the mid to late 90s

We were taught consent is a must have, but then again, we weren't taught abstinence only in high school.  The focus was on "We know you're going to have sex at some point, here is how to protect yourself".  The condom wrapped banana was a fixture, a right of passage even.

I remember we even had an STD laden game of telephone.

In college I learned of the term "mutually incapacitated sexual intercourse" in an English course that ended up focusing on writing up pamphlets that described the school's sexual harassment and sexual assault code.

Sad that I seem to know at least 2 women that dated the same guy, one was date raped, the other managed to leave without having sex with him (she was a foot taller and a volleyball player, he was a CS nerd), and he had the gall to spread rumors about the second one.  He's really lucky he survived given the situation was one where you had 50+ guys ready to beat his ass for lying and attempted rape.

Sadder still that she was an RA, and never reported it.  He ended up married to the meekest woman I've ever known, and I still worry about her.

Oh, and he was one of the most hypocritically "pious" assholes I've had the displeasure of knowing, hiding his predatory nature behind the doors the confessional.

//I have no idea why I typed that all out, probably because I've known too many women that were raped or nearly raped that never reported it out of fear of retaliation.
 
2013-02-26 12:03:28 AM

HoratioGates: IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

That's not how campus law works.  There is a 'legal' system in place and most campus issues are resolved there.  It's like binding arbitration, only with more rape.


Is this actually the case?  Sure, they have their "Honor Court", but I'm pretty sure they can't actually deny anyone who has the good sense to blow off some shiatheels looking for resume fluff and bring in the professionals.
 
2013-02-26 12:03:31 AM

Thunderpipes: I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey.


 You should look into some of the studies that have been done about proclivity to rape. There have been quite a few studies done that show that many young men don't recognize rape as problematic if the survey calls it something else.

Some women have problems identifying it as such right away too. Social conditioning influences the way we think more than many of us like to admit.

There are a lot of scholarly articles about men's attitudes towards rape on google scholar, should you care to explore them. This is also a pretty good personal account of the kind of rape that goes on where men don't get charged with a crime: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/laurie-penny-its-nic e -to-think-that-only-evil-men-are-rapists--that-its-only-pantomime-vill ains-with-knives-in-alleyways-but-the-reality-is-different-8079403.htm l
 
2013-02-26 12:03:52 AM

Weaver95: here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad. terrible, in fact. horrific. they pretended nothing was wrong. assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM. not to a court. not to the cops. she had to prove rape...to the school. on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done. And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.


of course they expected her to prove rape to them. How else would it work? Expel the guy on an accusation?
 
2013-02-26 12:03:53 AM

cowgirl toffee: That would make the game wrong...just wrong! ...in all the right ways. :D


You had to find the stank cloud of a "mental prostitute" to complete one of the quests. Another gal in the brothel had stolen it. Did I mention they were demons, because I'm pretty sure I did. Then you gutted yourself to find your dodecahedral puzzle-journal with deathtrap tucked in your colon and move on. It was a farked up game. Oil made of babies was a lot less weird than some of the other stuff you got or had to do to win.


Although a small part at the beginning of the game did inspire me to the experiment that lead to my discovering WHY you don't put Pillsbury sugar cookie dough in the microwave. The reason is cookie sized wafers heat up A LOT more in the inside than the outside, so pleasantly warm outside is still hot enough to make your spit vaporize inside. You have to cut 'em just right to eat em with the fire-seed sizzle.

Be super careful though, you have to cut them JUST RIGHT and leave them in JUST LONG ENOUGH or you'll get third degree mouth burns from molten sugar cookie.
 
2013-02-26 12:04:11 AM
Homer: Wait, I'm confused about the movie... so the cops knew internal affairs were setting them up?
Man: What are you talking about theres nothing like that in there
Homer: Well y'see when I get bored I make up my own movie. I have a very short attention span
Lady: But our point is very simple, y'see when...
Homer: Oh look! A bird! Hihihihihee

/this whole thread
 
2013-02-26 12:04:15 AM
Thunderpipes:
It is called intelligence, something this board suffers a lack of.

I think your wife called, she wants her sammich, now!


I like how you somehow believe you can be 'alpha dog' in an online forum.  the internet must be a very frustrating place for you...
 
2013-02-26 12:05:51 AM

Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.


I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."
 
2013-02-26 12:06:01 AM

Thunderpipes: Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?

The Duke Lacrosse team was exonerated, very publicly, and was not sent to prison.

It was also one case. Does it not strike you as odd that it's the only false accuser story people ever bring up?

It was a joke......

I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well, and a woman on the board no less telling the chick she is a douche, I side with the college. Months of this evil abusive boyfriend, and then she goes to the college to get the guy in trouble? She was right. First time a guy abuses you, leave. Christ, not like she was married with kids and dependent either. And she was depressed and had suicide attempts? Crazy chick.

The other girl with head wound, go to the police, let them handle it.


Thank you for putting your lack of understanding of human beings on display. It makes the ignore process much easier to use.
 
2013-02-26 12:06:49 AM

Repo Man: For some fresh outrage, I read this the other day, and spent some time trying to wrap my mind around it.

During an interview in her office, she offered a chilling example of a local woman who "got drunk at a party and passed out.

"She was raped by a couple of guys while her boyfriend filmed it," she said. "When she came to the next day, her boyfriend showed her the film of her having sex with these men and told her, 'I'm posting this on your Facebook page unless you let me pimp you out.' That's trafficking. That's coercion."

Dealing in flesh


this is why we (non-criminals) should be allowed to own guns.
if that was my sister, they would be dead already.

/itg
 
2013-02-26 12:08:18 AM

BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.


What I have gathered from that much better article (along with the original) is this: UNC has what is probably an average number of rape/sexual assault cases, but unlike anyone with good sense would do, when someone has a rape complaint the university directs them to the honor court instead of the police. The honor court is filled with a bunch of barely trained "judges" who are happen to be undergraduate students. They decide guilt and innocence, and sometimes manage to break laws like confidentiality laws along the way without any repercussions whatsoever. Basically, UNC has created a completely separate legal system staffed cheaply by college students which costs less and makes them look better in crime stats.

Yeah, there'd better be a freakin' investigation.
 
2013-02-26 12:08:26 AM

skullkrusher: Weaver95: here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad. terrible, in fact. horrific. they pretended nothing was wrong. assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM. not to a court. not to the cops. she had to prove rape...to the school. on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done. And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

of course they expected her to prove rape to them. How else would it work? Expel the guy on an accusation?


woman: 'I was raped. I reported it, the cops are investigating and i'm in therapy.  can ya cut me some slack?  at least 'till the stitches heal?'

university proper response: 'sure, how about we talk to your professors and see what you and your therapist can come up with to get you back on track.'
university actual response: 'meh, not our problem. man up and walk it off cookie.  oh, and stop dressing slutty. now pay yer tuition and STFU ok?  thanks!'

see the difference?  one is a human response, the other is corporate.
 
2013-02-26 12:08:34 AM

Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."


probably too stupid to not be trolling
 
2013-02-26 12:10:18 AM

Weaver95: IgG4:
Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

most rape victims aren't going to be coherent.  the school should be making sure the cops are involved in any investigation, and if the police determine a rape occurred, then they'll take it from there.  that's what they do after all.  its their job.  the ONLY thing the school should be doing is calling the cops and reporting a possible rape.  then back the hell off and stay out of it.


Given UNC's history in mishandling rape issues, the cops in Chapel Hill would probably have told her to turn around and march her false-allegating self back to school and file a complaint with the campus cops, who would handle (bury) it accordingly. That, and it apparently didn't happen off-campus, is probably why she had to go to the state.
 
2013-02-26 12:10:30 AM

Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."


That's what we've told them is a viable excuse. Well, not the six year olds, but replace it with a 20 year old victim? Totally. There's even an exception in the Federal Rules of Evidence for past sexual behavior with the victim.
I'd be cautious of using pedophiles as reasonable examples of all rapists in your research.
 
2013-02-26 12:10:42 AM

Kazan: White Southern Men like Rape. More at 11


1/11
(Too obvious.)
/The 1 is because I imagined your "newscaster" was Ron Burgundy.
 
2013-02-26 12:11:21 AM

Somacandra: Thunderpipes: So, the guy was charged with a crime?

Read the actual account linked to in the piece.


Oh, get real. Ask a guy like Thunderpipes to actually stop and read an article? No way! He's got to tell you his opinions about Feminists right now!
 
2013-02-26 12:12:25 AM

felching pen: Weaver95: IgG4:
Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

most rape victims aren't going to be coherent.  the school should be making sure the cops are involved in any investigation, and if the police determine a rape occurred, then they'll take it from there.  that's what they do after all.  its their job.  the ONLY thing the school should be doing is calling the cops and reporting a possible rape.  then back the hell off and stay out of it.

Given UNC's history in mishandling rape issues, the cops in Chapel Hill would probably have told her to turn around and march her false-allegating self back to school and file a complaint with the campus cops, who would handle (bury) it accordingly. That, and it apparently didn't happen off-campus, is probably why she had to go to the state.


we have the same problem with PSU.  the local cops wouldn't DARE follow up on a pedo rape accusation without talking to the university first.  in a lot of ways, PSU football was more akin to a cult than a school franchise.
 
2013-02-26 12:13:38 AM

HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order


I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.
 
2013-02-26 12:14:14 AM

bigwf2007: She describes him as a rapist. The words rape or rapist appear four times in the Huffington Post article. The phrase "sexual assault" appears seven times.


So, what's your point? She describes "him" as a rapist yet, never publicly identifies "him". Are we to assume that the rapist might be a "her"? That's not unprecedented, but is still very unlikely. She thinks it was an ex-boyfriend, but doesn't give any more details than that.
 
2013-02-26 12:14:22 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher: Weaver95: here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad. terrible, in fact. horrific. they pretended nothing was wrong. assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM. not to a court. not to the cops. she had to prove rape...to the school. on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done. And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

of course they expected her to prove rape to them. How else would it work? Expel the guy on an accusation?

woman: 'I was raped. I reported it, the cops are investigating and i'm in therapy.  can ya cut me some slack?  at least 'till the stitches heal?'

university proper response: 'sure, how about we talk to your professors and see what you and your therapist can come up with to get you back on track.'
university actual response: 'meh, not our problem. man up and walk it off cookie.  oh, and stop dressing slutty. now pay yer tuition and STFU ok?  thanks!'

see the difference?  one is a human response, the other is corporate.


seems like you're taking a fair bit of poetic license here but your complaint was that they expected her to prove rape TO THEM. Yeah, she brought a charge of rape to this "honor court". Of course she has to prove her accusation. She'd have to do that in a real court through the prosecution too. It wouldn't surprise me if UNC had a policy of hushing up rape, it's bad for enrollment after all, but it seems like she made her case, they didn't buy it and now want her to stop discussing the attack as it impugns a guy that they found innocent.
Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?
 
2013-02-26 12:15:13 AM
It's sad that the problem of sexual assault on college campuses is not a problem that seems to be going away anytime soon.
 
2013-02-26 12:15:20 AM

Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling


Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.
 
2013-02-26 12:15:27 AM

Fluorescent Testicle: BSABSVR: Have you never seen a rape thread before?  Or one of the endless "Autobiography of Doglover X" threads?  Cause you clearly are not new here.

I'm assuming sarcasm on his part. Seriously, Fark has so many rape defenders I'm surprised it's not on some kind of watch list.


What's interesting is how much of it isn't even the mealy-mouthed "If this guy is found guilty then he is probably a rapist, but until then I am looking at all parties suspiciously and c'mon ladies I don't walk around flashing a big wad of cash" defense.  Fark goes straight for the whole "women are all liars until proven otherwise also what is 'rape' nowadays anyhow? " defense.
 
2013-02-26 12:15:48 AM

mesmer242: BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.

What I have gathered from that much better article (along with the original) is this: UNC has what is probably an average number of rape/sexual assault cases, but unlike anyone with good sense would do, when someone has a rape complaint the university directs them to the honor court instead of the police. The honor court is filled with a bunch of barely trained "judges" who are happen to be undergraduate students. They decide guilt and innocence, and sometimes manage to break laws like confidentiality laws along the way without any repercussions whatsoever. Basically, UNC has created a completely separate legal system staffed cheaply by college students which costs less and makes them look better in crime stats.

Yeah, there'd better be a freakin' investigation.


And this all thanks to the really, really stupid idea that electing college students to the "student senate" or to the "student judiciary" is a good idea and actually giving it power.  They're voted in by popularity contests, virtually all of them have no idea what they're doing, but the universities seem to give then vast leeway in what they are allowed to deal with because they were pressured into doing so by students who constantly cry about not having voices in school function.

Student government bonus: You get to have flat screen TVs in the dorms and pretend you're doing something about the cost of college text books.
Student government problem: Students who have no idea what they're doing get to screw up rather important things, like crime reporting and following proper policy.

The administration will pretend it isn't involved until something like this happens, in which case student government gets handled like the sham that it is... for a few years, until students whine enough about "not having enough power/say/influence" again...
 
2013-02-26 12:15:55 AM

ModernLuddite: //I also went to university.
///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.


How about, "putting words in other people's mouths and strawmanning things they've never said is pretty sick"?

Can we "agree to disagree" about that as well?

Meanwhile, what's the appropriate Fark color for "lies about everything"?
 
2013-02-26 12:16:22 AM

Weaver95: we have the same problem with PSU. the local cops wouldn't DARE follow up on a pedo rape accusation without talking to the university first. in a lot of ways, PSU football was more akin to a cult than a school franchise.


And sadly, you could apply that to a ton of other universities as well. People are bad at seeing patterns though. It should be fairly obvious by now that any insular patriarchal institution that's considered inviolable and perfect is going to provide an atmosphere that allows rape culture to thrive.

Catholic church. Penn state. Numerous other universities whose athletes get away with acquaintance rape.
 
2013-02-26 12:16:57 AM
skullkrusher:
seems like you're taking a fair bit of poetic license here but your complaint was that they expected her to prove rape TO THEM. Yeah, she brought a charge of rape to this "honor court". Of course she has to prove her accusation. She'd have to do that in a real court through the prosecution too. It wouldn't surprise me if UNC had a policy of hushing up rape, it's bad for enrollment after all, but it seems like she made her case, they didn't buy it and now want her to stop discussing the attack as it impugns a guy that they found innocent.
Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?


*sigh*

no.  let's try this again - she didn't like the options that the university gave her.  she told the university that their options sucked donkey balls and she wanted to know what OTHER options she had.  the university told her to suck it up and deal with it, this was all she got.  she didn't like that, thought the university rules needed to be changed...and took steps to change them.

that's what this is about.
 
2013-02-26 12:17:17 AM

Thunderpipes: All colleges are liberal, period, even in Texas


[it's time to stop posting dot jpeg]
 
2013-02-26 12:17:33 AM
this sort of behavior, like those high school kids laughing and joking about some drunk girl getting raped....

is just proof of the decline of the country.
sad...clinton's fault
he made it acceptable to be a farking asshole (as long as you get away with it).
 
2013-02-26 12:17:59 AM

COMALite J: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

That purple level remark may ultimately turn out to be the less-than-ten-second "joke" that destroyed this nation.

Clayton Williams said that while running against Democrat ic candidate Ann Richards (R.I.P. ― one of the best governors Texas has had in recent memory) for Governor of Texas. He was beating her by a whopping twenty points in the polls. He had the election in the bag.

And then he made that remark. On TV. Days before the election.

Ann Richards won. She proceeded to do great things for Texas, though her first term was mostly cleaning up the mess from previous (Republican) administrations.

Unfortunately, she only got to serve that one clean-up term, and never got to do more of what she had planned. Because the GOP ran a new candidate against her, a man who was the son of the then-recent President of the United States: George W. Bush, son of George Herbert Walker Bush.

That was how Dubya became Governor of Texas. It could never have happened had Clayton Williams not said that joke. He would've won (which would've been bad for Texas), and would thus have been an incumbent, and the GOP would not risk splitting the vote putting Dubya or anyone else with any serious chance against him when he ran for reelection.

Thus, Dubya would never have been Governor of Texas. And without that as a springboard to give him credibility, he would never have even been in the running to become President of the United States.

Think how different things would be today.

One insensitive jerk tells one insensitive joke that took at most ten seconds to tell, and now America has flushed four trillion dollars ...


Damn, you really know your imaginary history!
 
2013-02-26 12:17:59 AM

Philbb: bigwf2007: She describes him as a rapist. The words rape or rapist appear four times in the Huffington Post article. The phrase "sexual assault" appears seven times.

So, what's your point? She describes "him" as a rapist yet, never publicly identifies "him". Are we to assume that the rapist might be a "her"? That's not unprecedented, but is still very unlikely. She thinks it was an ex-boyfriend, but doesn't give any more details than that.


It's highly unlikely. Violent rape of a woman by another woman? That's so unbelievably statistically rare.

Plus- I'm fairly sure that she'd know what type of body part penetrated her. We can probably accept the victim's word on the gender of her rapist.
 
2013-02-26 12:18:38 AM
Gambill's previous experience with the Honor Court was detailed in the OCR complaint. It's the venue in which Gambill attempted to resolve the sexual assault and stalking she claims she suffered at the hands of her ex-boyfriend.


Why is she letting a student court even be involved?  Shouldn't a REAL court be handling her rape case?
 
2013-02-26 12:19:00 AM

EvilRacistNaziFascist: What you must always keep in mind is that the actual innocence and/or guilt of any given individual in the United States accused of a crime is of trivial importance in comparison to the degree to which their story reinforces the Narrative and its concomitant hierarchy of oppression. White fratboys accused of rape against white women are automatically guilty, because the fratboys outrank the women in the hierarchy of victimhood; but a black man accused of rape against a white woman is probably the object of a racist witchhunt. As Lenin would say, it's all a matter of "who-whom", i.e. who is doing what to whom. There is no objective standard of justice.


Yes, you poor, poor, white males, you're so downtrodden by the evil Liberal Oppressors.
 
2013-02-26 12:20:37 AM

Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: we have the same problem with PSU. the local cops wouldn't DARE follow up on a pedo rape accusation without talking to the university first. in a lot of ways, PSU football was more akin to a cult than a school franchise.

And sadly, you could apply that to a ton of other universities as well. People are bad at seeing patterns though. It should be fairly obvious by now that any insular patriarchal institution that's considered inviolable and perfect is going to provide an atmosphere that allows rape culture to thrive.

Catholic church. Penn state. Numerous other universities whose athletes get away with acquaintance rape.


oh I don't think it's limited to feminist issues.  I think people in this country have been trained and conditioned to obey 'higher authority' without question.  in a good many cases, people trust the 'higher ups' without even stopping to think about where that comes from.  they just assume that the CEO/university president/chief of police or whatever is always right and that the scum bag victim is out for a quick payday or just trying to impugn the 'good name' of the organization in question.

don't step out of line, don't rock the boat, never ask questions.  just do as you are told and float downstream.  that's the american dream now.
 
2013-02-26 12:20:41 AM

The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.


these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).
 
2013-02-26 12:20:48 AM

BarkingUnicorn: ks1415: /current UNC student
//you would not believe the reaction this got today

Oh, DO tell us, please!  Burning dumpsters everywhere, I hope.


The proportion of dumpsters to students isn't high enough for that to be a catharsis, sadly. Plus, big angry events get planned well around here; when our chancellor submitted his resignation, for example, we waited three or four days to get together a, like, thousand-student-deep protest asking him to revoke it. Today's been all about outrage on the Internet, but what struck me is the pure damned scope of it; thousands of students, along with people who have nothing to do with UNC, were spreading the news all day, with hundreds getting the word out before a news article was ever published. (There was a screenshot of Gambill's announcement circulating before anyone reported on it.) Everything in this article (about Gambill being brought up on honor code violations) broke in the past 18 hours, basically; that's how fast the word got out.

The school's anti-gender-based-violence group has a meeting in response to this planned for tomorrow; it should be all kinds of fun.
 
2013-02-26 12:21:38 AM

telaran: mesmer242: BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.

What I have gathered from that much better article (along with the original) is this: UNC has what is probably an average number of rape/sexual assault cases, but unlike anyone with good sense would do, when someone has a rape complaint the university directs them to the honor court instead of the police. The honor court is filled with a bunch of barely trained "judges" who are happen to be undergraduate students. They decide guilt and innocence, and sometimes manage to break laws like confidentiality laws along the way without any repercussions whatsoever. Basically, UNC has created a completely separate legal system staffed cheaply by college students which costs less and makes them look better in crime stats.

Yeah, there'd better be a freakin' investigation.

And this all thanks to the really, really stupid idea that electing college students to the "student senate" or to the "student judiciary" is a good idea and actually giving it power.  They're voted in by popularity contests, virtually all of them have no idea what they're doing, but the universities seem to give then vast leeway in what they are allowed to deal with because they were pressured into doing so by students who constantly cry about not having voices in school function.

Student government bonus: You get to have flat screen TVs in the dorms and pretend you're doing something about the cost of college text books.
Student government problem: Students who have no idea what they're doing get to screw up rather important things, like crime reporting and following proper policy.

The administration will pretend it isn't involved until something like this ...


I was in student government in college and we had power over a small fee that was collected and funded various clubs. That's about it. Oh, the student body president would have meetings with deans and such, but there really wasn't any power over anything but the entertainment/student life. The stupidity of having undergrads in charge of a miniature legal system, especially one that covers felonies, is astounding.
 
2013-02-26 12:21:39 AM

meat0918: I remember we even had an STD laden game of telephone.


I thought that in telephone you sit in a circle and whisper something to the person next to you, but your version sounds way more....wet.
 
2013-02-26 12:21:46 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:
seems like you're taking a fair bit of poetic license here but your complaint was that they expected her to prove rape TO THEM. Yeah, she brought a charge of rape to this "honor court". Of course she has to prove her accusation. She'd have to do that in a real court through the prosecution too. It wouldn't surprise me if UNC had a policy of hushing up rape, it's bad for enrollment after all, but it seems like she made her case, they didn't buy it and now want her to stop discussing the attack as it impugns a guy that they found innocent.
Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?

*sigh*

no.  let's try this again - she didn't like the options that the university gave her.  she told the university that their options sucked donkey balls and she wanted to know what OTHER options she had.  the university told her to suck it up and deal with it, this was all she got.  she didn't like that, thought the university rules needed to be changed...and took steps to change them.

that's what this is about.


*sigh*

She availed herself of the "honor court" option. They did not find the guy guilty. She and others have filed a complaint that UNC does not do enough to help victim and are not compliant with the law. She has spoken publicly about her attack (which did not happen in the eyes of the "honor court") and they tell her she might be in violation of school policy. What the fark are you talking about?
 
2013-02-26 12:22:27 AM
Conservatives around the world think much the same way.

A recorded footage of Abu Islam saying that 90 percent of female protesters who head to Tahrir Square are Christian, referring to them as "crusaders", had circulated the internet. In the video, Abu Islam also says that these females go to demonstrations half naked with the purpose of getting raped.

Egypt court releases "women go Tahrir to get raped" preacher detained for blasphemy

It's strange that people like Thunderpipes hate Muslims so much, as they have so much in common.

Why are sex attacks on the rise in Tahrir Square?
The young men we spoke to admitted they went to the square to look at women, and though they did not admit to being involved in serious assaults, their manner suggested they saw no problem in harassing women.
They even found the issue of rape something of a joke. Shorouk al Attar Shorouk al Attar suspects more sinister forces are behind the attacks

"If women don't want it, they shouldn't wear tight clothes and they shouldn't come here," one laughed.
 
2013-02-26 12:22:57 AM

mesmer242: The stupidity of having undergrads in charge of a miniature legal system, especially one that covers felonies, is astounding.


Real cops don't even need a BA, do they?
 
2013-02-26 12:24:00 AM

ModernLuddite: Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.


Replace "rape" with "theft" or "murder".

Any discussion of lesser crimes (seriously - rape is the worst of the worst) that automatically grants the benefit of the doubt to the accuser would be dismissed out of hand because, seriously, accusing someone of stealing something isn't really enough.


//I also went to university.
///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.
//Agree to disagree.


Apples to oranges comparison. Rape cases are inherently fuzzy, and the physical evidence is completely biological and degrades in, at the most, 1 month's time.  Most victims are afraid or ashamed, because they were sexually violated. Less than 1% of all self-reported cases of rape are false accusations, so I think you're buying into the bullshiat right wing talking point and defending a pretty indefensible and misogynistic position.
 
2013-02-26 12:24:40 AM

Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: we have the same problem with PSU. the local cops wouldn't DARE follow up on a pedo rape accusation without talking to the university first. in a lot of ways, PSU football was more akin to a cult than a school franchise.

And sadly, you could apply that to a ton of other universities as well. People are bad at seeing patterns though. It should be fairly obvious by now that any insular patriarchal institution that's considered inviolable and perfect is going to provide an atmosphere that allows rape culture to thrive.

Catholic church. Penn state. Numerous other universities whose athletes get away with acquaintance rape.

oh I don't think it's limited to feminist issues.  I think people in this country have been trained and conditioned to obey 'higher authority' without question.  in a good many cases, people trust the 'higher ups' without even stopping to think about where that comes from.  they just assume that the CEO/university president/chief of police or whatever is always right and that the scum bag victim is out for a quick payday or just trying to impugn the 'good name' of the organization in question.

don't step out of line, don't rock the boat, never ask questions.  just do as you are told and float downstream.  that's the american dream now.


I would agree with that, but would also caution you not to underestimate just how much that intersects with feminist issues, with race issues, with LGBT issues- with just about anything in that vein. The tendency to trust the status quo and to give powerful men, who are still for the most part wealthy, straight and white the benefit of the doubt regardless of the facts on record- it leads to some very, very ugly things.
 
2013-02-26 12:25:01 AM
skullkrusher:
She availed herself of the "honor court" option.

..
because she had no choice...she didn't like that and wanted another option.  she was told 'honor court or nothing' and to STFU about it, not to mention it to the press and get over it.

not to mention that the 'court' was run by ill trained fellow students who did a sloppy job and might very well have let their own bias decide the 'case'.  no appeals either, and don't talk about it to the press or you can kiss your degree goodbye.
 
2013-02-26 12:25:12 AM
Innocent until proven guilty applies to men, too. Even if you think it shouldn't. No conviction? Going around calling them a rapist with the intent of ruining their lives is a crime.
 
2013-02-26 12:25:23 AM

Big Dave: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.


Excuse you?  Your statement was "we do not tell men not to rape."  I pointed out that, at least since the early 90's, the US culture, and in particular our public school system, has gone out of its way to hammer into young mens' minds that no means no, and often maybe means no.  You came back with stories of jocks who choose to ignore all the authority figures telling them not to touch other peoples' no-no spots.  That's like saying murder isn't against the law because you keep hearing about serial killers on the news.
 
2013-02-26 12:25:26 AM

Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
Glad to know you guys have your talking points straight. It makes it easier to identify you.

Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody. I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.


me too
 
2013-02-26 12:25:37 AM

Philbb: bigwf2007: She describes him as a rapist. The words rape or rapist appear four times in the Huffington Post article. The phrase "sexual assault" appears seven times.

So, what's your point? She describes "him" as a rapist yet, never publicly identifies "him". Are we to assume that the rapist might be a "her"? That's not unprecedented, but is still very unlikely. She thinks it was an ex-boyfriend, but doesn't give any more details than that.


i'm not quite sure what you are talking about. She's quite adamant that her ex-boyfriend attacked her. If you read the article linked from the HffPo piece, she says it was part of a pattner.

And why are some people saying the university forced her to go to the honor court when the article linked from HuffPo clearly states she went to the honor court rather that the legal system because she thought it would be quiicker.
 
2013-02-26 12:26:11 AM

doglover: mesmer242: The stupidity of having undergrads in charge of a miniature legal system, especially one that covers felonies, is astounding.

Real cops don't even need a BA, do they?


Judges need a law degree in most jurisdictions, as do lawyers. Juries obviously don't, but are generally given instructions by the judge.

From what I can tell from the description of the "honor court", they got rid of the idea of lawyers and police officers, and made a bunch of college students both the judge and jury. It's not going to go well for UNC.
 
2013-02-26 12:27:21 AM

Moonlightfox: Innocent until proven guilty applies to men, too. Even if you think it shouldn't. No conviction? Going around calling them a rapist with the intent of ruining their lives is a crime.


She has not named him publicly. Read the article. Stop making assumptions that enable rapists.

And you know what? Even if a conviction hasn't been obtained, a rape victim still has the right to speak about their own experiences.
 
2013-02-26 12:28:41 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Damn, you really know your imaginary history!


Which part is imaginary? That Clayton Williams really said that? That it cost him the election? That Ann Richards won because of that? That George W. Bush was able to run against her afterwards because the GOP had no incumbent in the race? That George W. Bush could never have been taken seriously enough to run for, let alone become, President, without first being Governor of a State or a U.S. Senator? That George W. Bush's two terms, which could not have happened without that joke, seriously messed up this nation?
 
2013-02-26 12:29:03 AM

Dokushin: You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape."  Just like no one had to tell me not to murder.  Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape.  There are criminals among us.  We need to do more to look after their mental health and to perhaps cure them of the diseases that destroy their ability to reason.  But men are not criminals, and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for others.



I guess you haven't been paying attention to the news or in Fark threads, because there sure is a hell of a lot of men being "trained" that it IS ok to rape.  When you live in a society in which men have been brought up constantly bombarded with messages that some rape isn't "true rape," isn't "rape rape", isn't "legitimate rape," et cetera, or that "she deserved it because..." you can BET people worry that men need to be told to the contrary.

And I'm so very, very sorry that you find this offensive.  I wasn't aware that your precious little feelings were more important than, say, NOT RAPING PEOPLE.  Perhaps if I hunt long enough, I can find a suitably small violin to express my concern.
 
2013-02-26 12:30:53 AM

Weaver95: ..because she had no choice...she didn't like that and wanted another option. she was told 'honor court or nothing' and to STFU about it, not to mention it to the press and get over it.


what else is a university to do? Well, aside from counseling and victim assistance, what are they supposed to do from a disciplinary perspective?

Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?

The whole idea of rape trial by university is absurd but I can't think of another way to do it. Were they remiss in their findings? Do they not do enough for rape victims? Sure, it's possible - even likely - but how else could this go down given what has already happened in terms of his "trial" exonerating him?

Weaver95: not to mention that the 'court' was run by ill trained fellow students who did a sloppy job and might very well have let their own bias decide the 'case'. no appeals either, and don't talk about it to the press or you can kiss your degree goodbye.


she chose that route. She could have gone to the authorities. Still could. Get the guy convicted and then the university wouldn't have a leg to stand on in terms of the "harassment" they now accuse her of
 
2013-02-26 12:31:28 AM

mesmer242: From what I can tell from the description of the "honor court", they got rid of the idea of lawyers and police officers, and made a bunch of college students both the judge and jury.


i2.kym-cdn.com
Seriously!?
 
2013-02-26 12:31:38 AM

Weaver95: ongbok: Weaver95: Voiceofreason01: Weaver95:
you weren't paying attention, were you?

There aren't enough details in the article to know anything for sure other than someone, somewhere is outraged. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that's pretty damning if you look at it from a certain point of view but no hard evidence. Am I supposed to be outraged by this?

if you follow along with the links embedded in the story, there are certainly more details than you seem to have noticed.  besides, the details of the rape aren't at issue.  the schools handling of the situation is what's at stake.

Well for the girl in this story she never went to the police to report her ex for the prior abuse and stalking. She went to the Honor Court instead to have him kicked out of school, and that was her mistake there. The Honor Court doesn't have any power to investigate, only thing they are going to do is listen to both sides and decide who is telling the truth, and it seems like they didn't believe her. I wonder if she ever filled a police report against him.

except that what you are saying is completely and in all ways wrong, sure.  even if you don't believe her story, there's STILL a bunch of other rape victims to consider.  but even that STILL misses the point.

here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad.  terrible, in fact.  horrific.  they pretended nothing was wrong.  assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM.  not to a court. not to the cops.  she had to prove rape...to the school.  on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done.  And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

the school disagreed and punished her for speaking up about their crappy customer servic ...


That is why she should have went to the police not the honor court. The honor court has no authority to question witnesses, make people testify or investigate. Only thing the honor court is is a bunch of people, who more than likely don't have any type of investigative training, listening to to sides of a story and deciding who is right or wrong. These people have no training or experience dealing with victims to understand their mental state or why somebody would stay in an abusive relationship. Going to the honor court about somebody committing a crime against you is like asking your neighbor to turn his garden hose on your house if your house is on fire.

And I will say it does seem like the school has a "walk it off" attitude when it comes to rape and assault, which is despicable. But at the same time if you never reported your assault to the actual police you shouldn't complain about how the school treated you.
 
2013-02-26 12:32:04 AM
Genevieve Marie:
I would agree with that, but would also caution you not to underestimate just how much that intersects with feminist issues, with race issues, with LGBT issues- with just about anything in that vein. The tendency to trust the status quo and to give powerful men, who are still for the most part wealthy, straight and white the benefit of the doubt regardless of the facts on record- it leads to some very, very ugly things.

i'm not insensitive to how this wave of 'mindless obedience to authority' impacts minority groups and sub-cultures in our society.  Basically if you're different in any way you're f*cked.  some groups have it worse than others and it can vary by degrees but...yeah.  step outta line even a little bit in our society and you can expect to get crushed for your efforts.

the response to protests is becoming more extreme.  not just in issues like this claim of rape and university cover up, but in general  look what happened to sandra fluke - she stood up for her rights and became target number one for conservatives everywhere.  but what was so amazing (and horrifying) about that situation was how mundane her testimony was...in fact it was almost bland.  that didn't stop Limbaugh from spending three days ripping her apart though, nor did it stop the flood of conservative bloggers from joining in with the vicious fun.  Fluke didn't do anything even remotely radical...and yet she became public enemy number one for every top conservative in this nation for damn near a week.  Imagine if she'd done something more than just give testimony before congress....what would the reaction have been then?
 
2013-02-26 12:32:26 AM

mesmer242: I was in student government in college and we had power over a small fee that was collected and funded various clubs. That's about it. Oh, the student body president would have meetings with deans and such, but there really wasn't any power over anything but the entertainment/student life. The stupidity of having undergrads in charge of a miniature legal system, especially one that covers felonies, is astounding.


Thank goodness you went to a sane (at least in that regard) university.
 
2013-02-26 12:32:45 AM

skullkrusher: Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?


Once again with feeling: she has not named her rapist. She has not mentioned his name publicly at all. All of her public  criticism has been directed at the university's handling of her case. Read the article.
 
2013-02-26 12:33:52 AM

Big Dave: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.


You've brought a good point on rape in our society and it is true considering how many women are almost raped. If rape isn't as common as people like to think then who is doing all the rape? I won't be surprised if at least on average a man won't try rape at least once in his life, regardless or not if the rape was a success. The math just doesn't work out.
 
2013-02-26 12:33:53 AM

Popular Opinion: The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.

these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).


In this case, no.  I have never been present at a court eval involving a "date-rape" styled rape.  It's all been the very clear cut, generally serial rapist who lurks in the bushes kind.
 
2013-02-26 12:34:08 AM

Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?

Once again with feeling: she has not named her rapist. She has not mentioned his name publicly at all. All of her public  criticism has been directed at the university's handling of her case. Read the article.


I keep telling him that and he keeps ignoring me.
 
2013-02-26 12:34:18 AM

HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.

Excuse you?  Your statement was "we do not tell men not to rape."  I pointed out that, at least since the early 90's, the US culture, and in particular our public school system, has gone out of its way to hammer into young mens' minds that no means no, and often maybe means no.  You came back with stories of jocks who choose to ignore all the authority figures telling them not to touch other peoples' no-no spots.  That's like saying murder isn't against the law because you keep hearing about serial killers on the news.


Our culture at the very least excuses rape, and does everything possible to cover up allegations unless the media can sell more ads by sensationalizing a particular case.  You are talking about the weak
"get consent for every escalation of sex" campaign which has nothing to do with reality.  A flimsy commercial you admit is something you only remember from 10 years ago has nothing to do with the reality facing women today.
Go outside and talk to women.  They don't give a shiat that you are scared to ask them out.  They want rapists to be held accountable in this society and you refraining from asking for a date isn't contributing much.
 
2013-02-26 12:34:22 AM

mesmer242: doglover: mesmer242: The stupidity of having undergrads in charge of a miniature legal system, especially one that covers felonies, is astounding.

Real cops don't even need a BA, do they?

Judges need a law degree in most jurisdictions, as do lawyers. Juries obviously don't, but are generally given instructions by the judge.

From what I can tell from the description of the "honor court", they got rid of the idea of lawyers and police officers, and made a bunch of college students both the judge and jury. It's not going to go well for UNC.


ding ding ding

/*sighs conspicuously*
 
2013-02-26 12:35:16 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:
She availed herself of the "honor court" option.

..because she had no choice...she didn't like that and wanted another option.  she was told 'honor court or nothing' and to STFU about it, not to mention it to the press and get over it.

not to mention that the 'court' was run by ill trained fellow students who did a sloppy job and might very well have let their own bias decide the 'case'.  no appeals either, and don't talk about it to the press or you can kiss your degree goodbye.



If you are talking about Gambill, the first link inb the article says she chose to go to honor court rather than to the justice system because she thought it would be quicker and less complicated.
 
2013-02-26 12:35:17 AM

Theaetetus: Voiceofreason01: The fact that she tried to resolve the problem in university honor court and not through the police is unusual.

Not so. The University Honor Court had jurisdiction over sexual assault and harassment claims and most students chose not to pursue criminal charges:
The only recourse for students who opted not to go to the court was to seek criminal charges, which most chose not to do, Manning said. That means most perpetrators would go completely unpunished.
The fact that she tried to resolve the problem this way and not through the police is entirelynormal, even if we disagree with the wisdom and result.


Nowhere does it say a person must pursue an allegation of rape through the honor court or is a student precluded from seeking criminal and civil recourse from her attacker.

/your reflexive attack to ward anyone who questions anything about this set of circumstance makes you appear more than a little unhinged.
//does my response make me a sociopath too?
 
2013-02-26 12:35:32 AM
True Story:
 My good friend that has the utmost credibility to me and others, and is a pussy, was accused of rape.  The police did not follow through with the charges.  She had cheated on her boyfriend with my friend, whom I believed he hated.  Women wanna get f*d sometimes because they are whores, drunks and liars.  This woman has no reason to do this if she was leading to his name, which I am sure she was doing, also is it not considered to be defamation as to the school's credibility.  Unless this is a Sandusky type case, she should shut the f up and get help elsewhere.

This could of been personal, she also might of threatened the school.  No info, no reason to be up in arms.
 
2013-02-26 12:35:35 AM

Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?

Once again with feeling: she has not named her rapist. She has not mentioned his name publicly at all. All of her public  criticism has been directed at the university's handling of her case. Read the article.


do you think this guy's identity is a secret? The guy she dated all of freshman year. Currently lives across the street from her on campus. Read other articles.
 
2013-02-26 12:36:02 AM

Theaetetus: I'd be cautious of using pedophiles as reasonable examples of all rapists in your research.


I understand that, but it was the most disturbing thing that I could come up with, that I've actually heard/read,  to illustrate my point. Some, not all, rapists are able to justify in their own minds that what they did wasn't wrong. The mental gymnastics they use to reach that point are often very impressive, but it's almost impossible (as far as I know) for them to see it any other way.

/some serial killers also justify their actions by claiming it was the victims fault.
 
2013-02-26 12:36:19 AM

Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey.

 You should look into some of the studies that have been done about proclivity to rape. There have been quite a few studies done that show that many young men don't recognize rape as problematic if the survey calls it something else.

Some women have problems identifying it as such right away too. Social conditioning influences the way we think more than many of us like to admit.

There are a lot of scholarly articles about men's attitudes towards rape on google scholar, should you care to explore them. This is also a pretty good personal account of the kind of rape that goes on where men don't get charged with a crime: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/laurie-penny-its-nic e -to-think-that-only-evil-men-are-rapists--that-its-only-pantomime-vill ains-with-knives-in-alleyways-but-the-reality-is-different-8079403.htm l


Say no. Go. Tell an adult. Problem solved. Hell, a chick can be into it, bang a dude, regret it the next day, and the guy is guilty because she was drunk, even though he had no reason to suspect trickery. How fair is that? How would a she-beast like it if guys could wake up next to Fatty McFatbottom with a hangover, and just cry rape because they were drunk (and the chick was guilty and had her life ruined no matter what)?

Once again, if these women were raped, why are they going to the damn college and not the police? Besides head wound girl of course, I think she did?

Rape is bad. Dude does it, he needs his ass kicked hard and thrown in jail. Everyone should agree on that. But there needs to be heavy laws in place to protect guys too. The Duke case was a spectacular example of how lopsided the justice system is against men.
 
2013-02-26 12:36:56 AM

skullkrusher: Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?

Once again with feeling: she has not named her rapist. She has not mentioned his name publicly at all. All of her public  criticism has been directed at the university's handling of her case. Read the article.

do you think this guy's identity is a secret? The guy she dated all of freshman year. Currently lives across the street from her on campus. Read other articles.


pay attention - the issue is the university's handling of her case.  she hasn't named him, she hasn't mentioned him in public.
 
2013-02-26 12:37:08 AM

Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?

Once again with feeling: she has not named her rapist. She has not mentioned his name publicly at all. All of her public  criticism has been directed at the university's handling of her case. Read the article.

I keep telling him that and he keeps ignoring me.


I didn't ignore you. In fact, I asked you:

skullkrusher: Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?


and you ignored me. Funny how that works.
 
2013-02-26 12:37:11 AM

evaned: skullkrusher: doesnt sound like they were signatories to the complaint

bigwf2007: There are then only three names on the complaint. Five according to some other reports. That's still not many.

That's true, or rather is probably true. Either the complaint isn't publicly available or I just can't find it. But the discussion was about how big UNC's coverup operation is. If the complaint is substantiated, then the 60+ number is more relevant.


64 victims total... current students, I believe.  May be plenty more coming soon.
 
2013-02-26 12:37:50 AM

meat0918: Why does that seem like copypasta from a different college wants to cover up rape thread?


History doesn't repeat itself, but it copypasta's.  If you yanked a roman judge from 100BC and stuck him behind the bench, very little would surprise him except that he couldn't just order people horse whipped or sold to slavery.

\Know some people that need a whipping
 
2013-02-26 12:38:45 AM
skullkrusher:
skullkrusher: Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?

and you ignored me. Funny how that works.


me; the issue is the university.
you: 'the sky sure is blue today.  isn't it blue?  my, it's blue.'
me: hello?  over here?  we were talking about the university's actions, remember?'
you: 'I like toast.'
me: *sigh*
 
2013-02-26 12:38:53 AM

skullkrusher: do you think this guy's identity is a secret? The guy she dated all of freshman year. Currently lives across the street from her on campus. Read other articles.


She's protected his identity as much as she can be reasonably expected to do. She has not named him to the media. Does the fact that he wasn't found guilty by the honor court mean she should shrug her shoulders and go "Ah well, guess that's it then. I should probably STFU now and stop trying to pursue any justice for myself."

Do you not understand why that's a totally unreasonable standard to hold victims to? And why it's unconscionable that the university has chosen to target this woman for participating in a case against them?
 
2013-02-26 12:38:56 AM

The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.

these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).

In this case, no.  I have never been present at a court eval involving a "date-rape" styled rape.  It's all been the very clear cut, generally serial rapist who lurks in the bushes kind.


fine. and i am saying that these sorts of offenders are not (as somebody suggested) incapable of knowing right from wrong, or actually believing they are not doing something wrong.
these sick f*cks know what they are doing, do it over and over, because they mostly get away with it.
 
2013-02-26 12:39:07 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher: Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: Think about it this way, this guy is innocent as far as the "honor court" is concerned. He has done nothing wrong in their eyes and this girl keeps talking about her attack to the press - an attack which did not happen, again, according to their findings - thereby denigrating the reputation of an innocent student. How else are they supposed to act?

Once again with feeling: she has not named her rapist. She has not mentioned his name publicly at all. All of her public  criticism has been directed at the university's handling of her case. Read the article.

do you think this guy's identity is a secret? The guy she dated all of freshman year. Currently lives across the street from her on campus. Read other articles.

pay attention - the issue is the university's handling of her case.  she hasn't named him, she hasn't mentioned him in public.


and no one knows who he is... It's like I started talking about the douchey kneejerk Kool-Aid sucking Republican on Fark who became a douchey kneejerk lefty without mentioning that person by name... no one would know what I was talking about, eh?
 
2013-02-26 12:40:00 AM

HotWingAgenda: Genevieve Marie: Actually, there are almost no school programs that teach consent. That's actually one of the bigger problems with abstinence education- it reinforces rape culture. The idea that you should always say no is totally at odds with human nature, and not only does it present some problems as far as teaching birth control and reproductive health, it also presents some problems as far as sexual consent goes.

If you tell people they're not ever allowed to say yes, and when that's particularly focused on women, a very screwy sexual dynamic emerges.

I must "this" this.  If you indoctrinate women from an early age to see all men as dangerous predators to be warded off with voodoo, what happens when the young woman meets a man she doesn't want to scare away?  How does the young woman react if a man she doesn't want tries to take without giving her a chance to say no?  You end up with more date rape, and sexual assault from platonic friends.  Empowering women to be sexually aggressive can, IMHO, go a long way to helping them feel more comfortable stopping a toucher dead in his tracks.  Figuratively, of course.

Not that any of that would have much effect on real violent psychopaths.


Yeah, we don't want girls to grow up thinking that the only way they can get laid is to get raped.
 
2013-02-26 12:40:14 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:
skullkrusher: Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?

and you ignored me. Funny how that works.

me; the issue is the university.
you: 'the sky sure is blue today.  isn't it blue?  my, it's blue.'
me: hello?  over here?  we were talking about the university's actions, remember?'
you: 'I like toast.'
me: *sigh*


There are several aspects to this story. Try to soak them all in and discuss them and not act like a child.
 
2013-02-26 12:40:33 AM
And really, I have to know: Who thought it would be a good idea to let some idiot children without with no significant legal education or bar licensing act as judges, juries, and legal counsel for sexual assault cases?

"My roommate bought diet Pepsi instead of diet Coke and I'm a little peeved about it," is the threshold for the significance of shiat these people should have ever been trusted to handle.  Anything more important than that and it goes to someone who knows what the fark they are doing.
 
2013-02-26 12:40:39 AM
skullkrusher:

and no one knows who he is... It's like I started talking about the douchey kneejerk Kool-Aid sucking Republican on Fark who became a douchey kneejerk lefty without mentioning that person by name... no one would know what I was talking about, eh?

...and thus proving my point about your refusal to focus on the topic at hand.  I guess I should be happy to be proven correct so often but to be honest, it gets tiresome after a while.
 
2013-02-26 12:41:13 AM

JohnnyRebel88: True Story:
 My good friend that has the utmost credibility to me and others, and is a pussy, was accused of rape.  The police did not follow through with the charges.  She had cheated on her boyfriend with my friend, whom I believed he hated.  Women wanna get f*d sometimes because they are whores, drunks and liars.  This woman has no reason to do this if she was leading to his name, which I am sure she was doing, also is it not considered to be defamation as to the school's credibility.  Unless this is a Sandusky type case, she should shut the f up and get help elsewhere.

This could of been personal, she also might of threatened the school.  No info, no reason to be up in arms.




This thread is over the limit on trolls at this time. Try your troll again later.
 
2013-02-26 12:41:41 AM

Thunderpipes: Rape is bad. Dude does it, he needs his ass kicked hard and thrown in jail. Everyone should agree on that. But there needs to be heavy laws in place to protect guys too. The Duke case was a spectacular example of how lopsided the justice system is against men.


You're probably not even worth responding to, but disgusting and obnoxious misogyny aside, do you not realize how insanely stupid it is to use a case that got thrown out and where the prosecutor was disbarred and all the men were exonerated as an example of how unfair the justice system is to men?
 
2013-02-26 12:42:20 AM
skullkrusher:

There are several aspects to this story. Try to soak them all in and discuss them and not act like a child.

um, you DO realize you JUST SAID THIS, right?

and no one knows who he is... It's like I started talking about the douchey kneejerk Kool-Aid sucking Republican on Fark who became a douchey kneejerk lefty without mentioning that person by name... no one would know what I was talking about, eh?

I mean...we can see you acting like an immature jerk.  you know this, yes?  truly puzzling behavior.  I just don't understand why you make me hurt you.
 
2013-02-26 12:42:39 AM

China White Tea: And really, I have to know: Who thought it would be a good idea to let some idiot children without with no significant legal education or bar licensing act as judges, juries, and legal counsel for sexual assault cases?


Apparently the "victim" did.
 
2013-02-26 12:43:02 AM

Fallout Boy: The math just doesn't work out.


pff, that's not what I was saying and don't put words in my mouth.
The % of men who actually commit rape is, I hope, low.
The number of men who laugh it off, assume the woman must have wanted it, led him on, is lying, etc - that's what leads to the small % of rapists being able to get away with it.

And, especially in a thread about rape in college, we should remember that most rapes aren't a guy crawling into a window at 3am - they're at a high school or college party where the boys/men specifically plan their actions.  They make sure the woman they have picked gets drunk, gets separated from her friends, and then they get together and rape her.  I've heard of it happening dozens of times from both victim and perpetrator.
 
2013-02-26 12:44:23 AM

Weaver95: bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?

the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.


How could the school cover it up when the police were notified and a report was filed?
 
2013-02-26 12:44:43 AM

Thunderpipes: China White Tea: And really, I have to know: Who thought it would be a good idea to let some idiot children without with no significant legal education or bar licensing act as judges, juries, and legal counsel for sexual assault cases?

Apparently the "victim" did.


*whew*.  you got some balls, temping fate like that.  i'm not sure I'd be taunting the gods and daring 'em to pick me off.  good luck with that tho, and let us know how it works out.
 
2013-02-26 12:45:09 AM

Genevieve Marie: She's protected his identity as much as she can be reasonably expected to do. She has not named him to the media. Does the fact that he wasn't found guilty by the honor court mean she should shrug her shoulders and go "Ah well, guess that's it then. I should probably STFU now and stop trying to pursue any justice for myself."


she should absolutely pursue justice for herself. I am just saying that I can see where this "honor court" is coming from. They found the guy innocent. No rape happened to their minds. She is still talking about this rape she endured at the hands of a guy (innocent to them) that cannot possibly be a secret thereby dragging the reputation of a exonerated (to them) student's name through the mud. In effect, to them, she is making baseless accusations about this student.

Picture this: some girl agrees to have sex with some guy and regrets it the next day. Brings the guy before the court and they find him innocent as the sex was consensual. She goes on to talk about this attack, talks about how she was attacked by the guy she was with at the party - doesn't mention him by name but hundreds of people know who she was dancing with... what does the "honor court" do in that case?

To the "honor court" this is effectively no different.

She needs to go to the police and get this guy prosecuted. That is how she gets justice now. She can get UNC to change their policies and offer more counseling but this guy is not going to be punished by UNC.
 
2013-02-26 12:45:27 AM

pudding7: Weaver95: bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?

the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.

How could the school cover it up when the police were notified and a report was filed?


fairly easily.  look how well PSU covered up over a decade of pedo rape.
 
2013-02-26 12:45:31 AM

Hagenhatesyouall: Was the dude convicted of raping her?

If so, the school is farked.

If not, then that biatch needs to shut the fark up and suck up some slander charges.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-02-26 12:45:49 AM

Big Dave: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.

Excuse you?  Your statement was "we do not tell men not to rape."  I pointed out that, at least since the early 90's, the US culture, and in particular our public school system, has gone out of its way to hammer into young mens' minds that no means no, and often maybe means no.  You came back with stories of jocks who choose to ignore all the authority figures telling them not to touch other peoples' no-no spots.  That's like saying murder isn't against the law because you keep hearing about serial killers on the news.

Our culture at the very least excuses rape, and does everything possible to cover up allegations unless the media can sell more ads by sensationalizing a par ...


No one here said anything about a commercial... at any point.

Good god, I just realized I've been trying to have a rational conversation with a crazy person.  kthxbye
 
2013-02-26 12:46:18 AM

Popular Opinion: The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.

these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).

In this case, no.  I have never been present at a court eval involving a "date-rape" styled rape.  It's all been the very clear cut, generally serial rapist who lurks in the bushes kind.

fine. and i am saying that these sorts of offenders are not (as somebody suggested) incapable of knowing right from wrong, or actually believing ...


Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me.  Most sexual offenders, in my limited experience, do understand what they are doing is wrong on some level, but, feel obligated to act upon their deviant urges, as evidenced by the attempts to cover up the crime after the fact.
 
2013-02-26 12:46:44 AM

nekulor: Rape cases are inherently fuzzy, and the physical evidence is completely biological and degrades in, at the most, 1 month's time.


I'm probably going to take so much flak for this, but I hopefully I don't come out as appearing to defend rapists because that's not what I really intend. But I think that this really contributes to a lot of the disagreements between people. (Obviously not all of it, and not what's really a cloak for outright misogyny or (less commonly) misandry.)

I mean, think about it this way. Suppose you're on the jury for a shoplifting case. When the police caught the defendant, he had the object which was allegedly stolen. The shopowner testifies that the defendant left the store without paying. The defendant testifies that he did, in fact, pay.

That's all the evidence you get. There are no other witnesses. You don't get to see an accounting of the day's sales to determine if the item's value is missing, or the defendant's credit card history. There's no security footage.

Do you find him guilty?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't. Now, I don't know what sort of evidence is in play for the majority of rape cases, but I can certainly imagine that in a large number of cases -- perhaps even a majority -- wind up like this. (Obviously the unusual "snatched by someone in the bushes" scenario will often leave lots of other physical trauma, but isn't date rape the most common scenario? I bet that you wouldn't get that sort of thing most of the time. And in those scenarios, even a rape kit just gives evidence that the two people had sex; it says nothing about consent.)  

So what do you do? It seems like a lose-lose situation. I don't like the idea of convicting someone in a case where almost the sole evidence for an essential component of the crime is what a witness says happened, even if that witness appears very credible.

So what do you do? If you take my I'm-not-actually-sure-how-strawman-this-is position, then most rapists walk. If you side with the accuser, you (according to that position) are depriving the defendant of his civil rights and not giving him a fair trial.

Now, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's more physical evidence than I'd assume; if so, perhaps the fact that this isn't public knowledge is part of the problem. But if not.... it seems like a very thorny scenario.

(And then of course there are weird hopefully-hypothetical scenarios that the part of me that thought about going to law school would love to read about. Like, if Alice is totally smashed and Bob has sex with her, he's raping her. What happens if Bob is also smashed? Are they raping each other? If so, can Bob purposely go have a ton of drinks and then use a threat of mutual prosecution as a "defense"?)
 
2013-02-26 12:47:21 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:

There are several aspects to this story. Try to soak them all in and discuss them and not act like a child.

um, you DO realize you JUST SAID THIS, right?

and no one knows who he is... It's like I started talking about the douchey kneejerk Kool-Aid sucking Republican on Fark who became a douchey kneejerk lefty without mentioning that person by name... no one would know what I was talking about, eh?

I mean...we can see you acting like an immature jerk.  you know this, yes?  truly puzzling behavior.  I just don't understand why you make me hurt you.


umm... huh?
You're saying stuff but it's not making any sense.
You're stomping your feet claiming to know what the story is about and exhorting me to pay attention. Yeah, I'm paying attention. Read a few articles on it even. It is complicated yet you are getting all bothered by the fact that I am not focusing solely on one aspect of it. Sorry dude, talk to someone else then
 
2013-02-26 12:48:29 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:

and no one knows who he is... It's like I started talking about the douchey kneejerk Kool-Aid sucking Republican on Fark who became a douchey kneejerk lefty without mentioning that person by name... no one would know what I was talking about, eh?

...and thus proving my point about your refusal to focus on the topic at hand.  I guess I should be happy to be proven correct so often but to be honest, it gets tiresome after a while.


hehe that IS the topic at hand. Again, the story might be a little complex for you but there are other ones who can handle the different aspects of it
 
2013-02-26 12:48:41 AM

skullkrusher: Genevieve Marie: She's protected his identity as much as she can be reasonably expected to do. She has not named him to the media. Does the fact that he wasn't found guilty by the honor court mean she should shrug her shoulders and go "Ah well, guess that's it then. I should probably STFU now and stop trying to pursue any justice for myself."

she should absolutely pursue justice for herself. I am just saying that I can see where this "honor court" is coming from. They found the guy innocent. No rape happened to their minds. She is still talking about this rape she endured at the hands of a guy (innocent to them) that cannot possibly be a secret thereby dragging the reputation of a exonerated (to them) student's name through the mud. In effect, to them, she is making baseless accusations about this student.

Picture this: some girl agrees to have sex with some guy and regrets it the next day. Brings the guy before the court and they find him innocent as the sex was consensual. She goes on to talk about this attack, talks about how she was attacked by the guy she was with at the party - doesn't mention him by name but hundreds of people know who she was dancing with... what does the "honor court" do in that case?

To the "honor court" this is effectively no different.

She needs to go to the police and get this guy prosecuted. That is how she gets justice now. She can get UNC to change their policies and offer more counseling but this guy is not going to be punished by UNC.


The honor court does nothing, because they're a group of students who can't do rape kits, can't question witnesses, can't explore motives, and can't say one way or the other whether something happened or not?

And because malicious gossip tends to not be a violation of college honor codes? (If it was. most of the greek systems would have been dismantled long ago)

The honor court is a group of students. It was the university who chose to give them this authority and chose to allow them to execute this decision. It should be VERY clear that a student participating in a case against the university should not be considered in violation of the honor code for choosing to do so.
 
2013-02-26 12:49:55 AM

Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me... Sounds like trouble to me.

Who even repeats themselves this way? Someone frothing with ragpe.


Hands up everybody else who misread it this way.
 
2013-02-26 12:50:06 AM
That's a rather rough way to get a full scholarship.
 
2013-02-26 12:50:06 AM

Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: Rape is bad. Dude does it, he needs his ass kicked hard and thrown in jail. Everyone should agree on that. But there needs to be heavy laws in place to protect guys too. The Duke case was a spectacular example of how lopsided the justice system is against men.

You're probably not even worth responding to, but disgusting and obnoxious misogyny aside, do you not realize how insanely stupid it is to use a case that got thrown out and where the prosecutor was disbarred and all the men were exonerated as an example of how unfair the justice system is to men?


Absolutely. You think this had no effect on the Duke players? Their lives were permanently screwed up. The entire nation wanted their heads on a plate because of the BS. kids arrested, death threats, whole locrosse team shut down, I mean, you think that is all okay? One made up story crushed a whole bunch of people. Even the coach was forced to resign. If that is not a perfect case to use, what it?

Misogyny? Really? Make you feel smart, Cupcake?
 
2013-02-26 12:50:27 AM
skullkrusher:
umm... huh?
You're saying stuff but it's not making any sense.
You're stomping your feet claiming to know what the story is about and exhorting me to pay attention. Yeah, I'm paying attention. Read a few articles on it even. It is complicated yet you are getting all bothered by the fact that I am not focusing solely on one aspect of it. Sorry dude, talk to someone else then


oo, good call.  denial is always a good choice.  and making it all about you?   that's like...bonus round!  anything to avoid talking about how badly the university handled this situation, right?  'cause if I were to somehow bring the focus back onto that subject, you'd be screwed, right?
 
2013-02-26 12:50:41 AM

Popular Opinion: The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.

these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).


I was responding to "the few who do won't listen" which has next to nothing to do with "the 'typical college rapist'".

I was just pointing out that the comment that guys who do need to be told won't listen "because they know exactly what the fark they're doing. " was too broad. That there are many who really believe that they are the victims and it's "her" fault because "she" was asking for it.
 
2013-02-26 12:50:58 AM

evaned: So what do you do? If you take my I'm-not-actually-sure-how-strawman-this-is position, then most rapists walk. If you side with the accuser, you (according to that position) are depriving the defendant of his civil rights and not giving him a fair trial.

Now, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's more physical evidence than I'd assume; if so, perhaps the fact that this isn't public knowledge is part of the problem. But if not.... it seems like a very thorny scenario.


In a criminal case, this is exactly why a lot of rapists walk. However? This isn't a criminal case at this point. This girl is participating in a civil case against the school. Totally different standard of proof.

No one's freedom is at stake, and people don't have an inalienable right to a good reputation.
 
2013-02-26 12:51:15 AM

JohnnyRebel88: True Story:
 My good friend that has the utmost credibility to me and others, and is a pussy, was accused of rape.  The police did not follow through with the charges.  She had cheated on her boyfriend with my friend, whom I believed he hated.  Women wanna get f*d sometimes because they are whores, drunks and liars.  This woman has no reason to do this if she was leading to his name, which I am sure she was doing, also is it not considered to be defamation as to the school's credibility.  Unless this is a Sandusky type case, she should shut the f up and get help elsewhere.

This could of been personal, she also might of threatened the school.  No info, no reason to be up in arms.



Pretty much this.

/how soon people forget the story posted just a couple days ago of the guy paying child support to a woman who cheated on him while he was deployed.. and one of the excuses she pulled out of her ass was that she was raped
//or the story of Crystal Mangum or Katelyn Faber ... or Desiree Washington
// a charge of rape should never be a conviction of rape all by itself
 
2013-02-26 12:51:16 AM

China White Tea: HoratioGates: IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

That's not how campus law works.  There is a 'legal' system in place and most campus issues are resolved there.  It's like binding arbitration, only with more rape.

Is this actually the case?  Sure, they have their "Honor Court", but I'm pretty sure they can't actually deny anyone who has the good sense to blow off some shiatheels looking for resume fluff and bring in the professionals.


Most universities have their own campus cops.  They're the first cops that a victim will turn to because a) they're handy and b) the victim knows and trusts them.  Their main job is to  steer victims into the campus "justice" system.  Universities hammer into students' heads that these "resources" are all students need.

I guarantee you these women had conversations something like this:

"Hello, campus cop!  I want to report a rape."

"Well, honey, I'm here for you... go ahead."

"No, I wanna report it to the city police!"

"You don't want to do that.  Them rape exams suck.  It will take months. Defense attorney will drag you through the mud.  We can handle this faster and make it much easier on you. We don't even have to tell your parents!"
 
2013-02-26 12:51:22 AM

pudding7: Weaver95: bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?

the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.

How could the school cover it up when the police were notified and a report was filed?


Actually, as someone later pointed oout to me there's a link in this article that says she chose to go to honor court rather than the police because it would be quicker and less complicated. So the answer is no, no one was ever charged with a crime.
 
2013-02-26 12:51:55 AM
Thunderpipes:
Misogyny? Really? Make you feel smart, Cupcake?

I'll bet you lick the screen when you play Civilization V.

the snozzberries taste like snozzberries!
 
2013-02-26 12:51:57 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher: Weaver95: here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad. terrible, in fact. horrific. they pretended nothing was wrong. assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM. not to a court. not to the cops. she had to prove rape...to the school. on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done. And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

of course they expected her to prove rape to them. How else would it work? Expel the guy on an accusation?

woman: 'I was raped. I reported it, the cops are investigating and i'm in therapy.  can ya cut me some slack?  at least 'till the stitches heal?'

university proper response: 'sure, how about we talk to your professors and see what you and your therapist can come up with to get you back on track.'
university actual response: 'meh, not our problem. man up and walk it off cookie.  oh, and stop dressing slutty. now pay yer tuition and STFU ok?  thanks!'

see the difference?  one is a human response, the other is corporate.


But corporations are people, too...
 
2013-02-26 12:52:41 AM

bigwf2007: pudding7: Weaver95: bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?

the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.

How could the school cover it up when the police were notified and a report was filed?

Actually, as someone later pointed oout to me there's a link in this article that says she chose to go to honor court rather than the police because it would be quicker and less complicated. So the answer is no, no one was ever charged with a crime.


Quicker and less complicated?  Really?

So shiat didn't go her way, now she gets to defame this dude forever.  What the fk ever.
 
2013-02-26 12:52:46 AM

Genevieve Marie: Kaenneth: I know that women lie. Had a girl accuse me of 'undressing her with my eyes' in high school. No clue who she was, and I wasn't, because I'm gay.

So one woman, one time, misread the way you were looking at her and accused you of doing something rude but legal and your conclusion from this one relatively harmless interaction with one member of the gender that makes up half the human race is "Women are psycho liars who should be locked in camps"?

Sounds legit.


I don't know why, but I've noticed that for some reason some gay men make for the worst misogynists.  I mean, most gay men are fine and you usually get a lot of support for women from the lbgtq community, but you every once in a while run into these crazy gay men who just have a NUCLEAR hatred of women, all women.

I have no idea why, and since this is merely personal observation it has no scientific credibility.  I have to wonder, though, if maybe it's about time someone did a study or something.
 
2013-02-26 12:53:31 AM

Thunderpipes: Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: Rape is bad. Dude does it, he needs his ass kicked hard and thrown in jail. Everyone should agree on that. But there needs to be heavy laws in place to protect guys too. The Duke case was a spectacular example of how lopsided the justice system is against men.

You're probably not even worth responding to, but disgusting and obnoxious misogyny aside, do you not realize how insanely stupid it is to use a case that got thrown out and where the prosecutor was disbarred and all the men were exonerated as an example of how unfair the justice system is to men?

Absolutely. You think this had no effect on the Duke players? Their lives were permanently screwed up. The entire nation wanted their heads on a plate because of the BS. kids arrested, death threats, whole locrosse team shut down, I mean, you think that is all okay? One made up story crushed a whole bunch of people. Even the coach was forced to resign. If that is not a perfect case to use, what it?

Misogyny? Really? Make you feel smart, Cupcake?


Their lives were permanently ruined? Yea, about that, buttercup.... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4980370
 
2013-02-26 12:53:45 AM

BarkingUnicorn: China White Tea: HoratioGates: IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

That's not how campus law works.  There is a 'legal' system in place and most campus issues are resolved there.  It's like binding arbitration, only with more rape.

Is this actually the case?  Sure, they have their "Honor Court", but I'm pretty sure they can't actually deny anyone who has the good sense to blow off some shiatheels looking for resume fluff and bring in the professionals.

Most universities have their own campus cops.  They're the first cops that a victim will turn to because a) they're handy and b) the victim knows and trusts them.  Their main job is to  steer victims into the campus "justice" system.  Universities hammer into students' heads that these "resources" are all students need.

I guarantee you these women had conversations something like this:

"Hello, campus cop!  I want to report a rape."

"Well, honey, I'm here for you... go ahead."

"No, I wanna report it to the city police!"

"You don't want to do that.  Them rape exams suck.  It will take months. Defense attorney will drag you through the mud.  We can handle this faster and make it much easier on you. We don't even have to tell your parents!"


In that scenario, what does "we can handle this" mean to both parties?  What does "justice" look like to the victim in this hypothetical where the real cops aren't involved?
 
2013-02-26 12:53:47 AM

debug: alleged rapist


Thank you!!!  I didn't want to be the douchebag to bring this up...

/+1 for you
 
2013-02-26 12:54:42 AM

Genevieve Marie: The honor court does nothing, because they're a group of students who can't do rape kits, can't question witnesses, can't explore motives, and can't say one way or the other whether something happened or not?

And because malicious gossip tends to not be a violation of college honor codes? (If it was. most of the greek systems would have been dismantled long ago)

The honor court is a group of students. It was the university who chose to give them this authority and chose to allow them to execute this decision. It should be VERY clear that a student participating in a case against the university should not be considered in violation of the honor code for choosing to do so.


I completely agree that she should not be in violation of the honor code for making a case against the university and if their charges against her are in retaliation, that's absolutely indefensible. However, if their charges against her are because she is effectively continuing to accuse this guy of rape, then I see that angle as well. As I've said, it's pretty complex and she seems to have gotten some seriously poor treatment at the hands of the school but I really don't think it is black and white - in part because of the hypothetical which is effectively identical to the real situation in the eyes of the "honor court".

I had a friend of mine in college brought before a tribunal for an alleged attack. It's a bullshiat kangaroo court. He went through weeks of hell before finally being exonerated. His investigation wasn't a secret either although it officially was.
 
2013-02-26 12:54:47 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: So shiat didn't go her way, now she gets to defame this dude forever. What the fk ever.


It's only defamation if you believe she was lying. As there is no evidence that this is the case, I have to believe you're basing  this assertion on your own biases.
 
2013-02-26 12:54:55 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:
She availed herself of the "honor court" option.

..because she had no choice...she didn't like that and wanted another option.  she was told 'honor court or nothing' and to STFU about it, not to mention it to the press and get over it.

not to mention that the 'court' was run by ill trained fellow students who did a sloppy job and might very well have let their own bias decide the 'case'.  no appeals either, and don't talk about it to the press or you can kiss your degree goodbye.


Um, not exactly.  She chose Honor Court because was persuaded that it would be easier and faster.

FOR US TO POOP ON YOU!

img2-3.timeinc.net
 
2013-02-26 12:55:00 AM

bigwf2007: pudding7: Weaver95: bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?

the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.

How could the school cover it up when the police were notified and a report was filed?

Actually, as someone later pointed oout to me there's a link in this article that says she chose to go to honor court rather than the police because it would be quicker and less complicated. So the answer is no, no one was ever charged with a crime.


Quicker and less complicated to do what?  Send the guy to prison?  Oh wait, she doesn't know who did it, so what exactly was she hoping the Honor Court would do more quickly and with fewer complications?
 
2013-02-26 12:55:19 AM

Weaver95: atomicmask: Maybe she should wait for her "alleged" rapist to be convicted so its no longer an "Alleged" case and its a convicted case, other wise its just defaming the character of someone.

no, I don't think so.  look - she still has freedom of speech.  if she feels that the school was less than supportive of her claims of rape and has suggestions on how the administration can improve their handling of claims of rape then she SHOULD be heard.  if the administration blew off her concerns, and it looks like that might have been the case, then she's justified in doing something to grab their attention.

that's an action independent of the rape case.  she can actually keep that a separate issue and it sounds like that's what she did.  she hasn't publicly named her (accused) rapist.  she was upset with how the school reacted.


Bigger question:  Why is the school involved in anyway concerning this alleged criminal matter?  Sure she has free speech and they can either do something or do nothing concerning her matter and in both cases they aren't wrong for it.  She doesn't need "grab their attention", she needs to pursue a criminal complaint.  Holding the school liable for for any action of a third party whether it was before or after the rape should hold no bearing.  If anything the school appears to be avoiding being drug into a possible lawsuit of the alleged rapist against them for giving her a soapbox.  It's a shiatty legal dodge but we live in a very litigious world where victims get sued by their attackers anymore and win.
 
2013-02-26 12:55:20 AM
ok this has been fun  but I gotta get up early in the morning.  i'll check back tomorrow to see how deep the rabbit hole went and who I need to add to my 'women hating/pro-rape' list of GOP shills on fark.
 
2013-02-26 12:55:55 AM

HalfPiper: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x282]


I was the president of the student justice committee when I was in college, so I'm really getting a kick, yada yada.
 
2013-02-26 12:56:11 AM
Am I an asshole for wondering how said rape transpired? More specifically, if it happened at a frat party, she got too much to drink, and things went sour? If so, although still a terrible thing, live and learn, own up to your own shortcomings, and carry on. If not, sue these mother frakkers for ... no, not "for all they're worth", because pieces of trash like this aren't worth much, but sue them for more than they're worth, get out of that piece of garbage school, and educate people so something like this never happens again.

Regardless of how the rape transpired it's still a disgrace to the human race to violate a victim all over again. The courage it took this girl to speak out about it should be rewarded and not commended.
 
2013-02-26 12:56:25 AM

ciberido: Genevieve Marie: Kaenneth: I know that women lie. Had a girl accuse me of 'undressing her with my eyes' in high school. No clue who she was, and I wasn't, because I'm gay.

So one woman, one time, misread the way you were looking at her and accused you of doing something rude but legal and your conclusion from this one relatively harmless interaction with one member of the gender that makes up half the human race is "Women are psycho liars who should be locked in camps"?

Sounds legit.

I don't know why, but I've noticed that for some reason some gay men make for the worst misogynists.  I mean, most gay men are fine and you usually get a lot of support for women from the lbgtq community, but you every once in a while run into these crazy gay men who just have a NUCLEAR hatred of women, all women.

I have no idea why, and since this is merely personal observation it has no scientific credibility.  I have to wonder, though, if maybe it's about time someone did a study or something.



How is telling the truth evidence of nuclear hatred of women?  'Oh noes, implying that women aren't always truthful about claims of sexual harassment/rape is the same as misogyny'

Come on, man.  Or woman.

Some men rape -- and some women lie about being raped.  This is getting into 'women don't commit domestic violence' and 'women are not pedophiles' territory.

I take that back; this is getting into 'no white woman would ever agree to have sex with a black man' territory, and we all saw how that ended up going.
 
2013-02-26 12:56:37 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Quicker and less complicated?  Really?

So shiat didn't go her way, now she gets to defame this dude forever.  What the fk ever.


She hasn't even named the guy so, no, she's not defaming him.

The rape is a background story to this story.  The present-day story is actually about her filing a complaint against the school, and the school's "Honor Court" retaliating against her for it.
 
2013-02-26 12:56:37 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Weaver95: skullkrusher:
She availed herself of the "honor court" option.

..because she had no choice...she didn't like that and wanted another option.  she was told 'honor court or nothing' and to STFU about it, not to mention it to the press and get over it.

not to mention that the 'court' was run by ill trained fellow students who did a sloppy job and might very well have let their own bias decide the 'case'.  no appeals either, and don't talk about it to the press or you can kiss your degree goodbye.

Um, not exactly.  She chose Honor Court because was persuaded that it would be easier and faster.

FOR US TO POOP ON YOU!

[img2-3.timeinc.net image 270x270]


Faster and easier to accomplish what?  That's what I'm not getting.  What exactly is the Honor Court process supposed to result in?

Real cops = convicted rapist goes to prison
Honor court = a stern talking to or something?
 
2013-02-26 12:57:12 AM

ParagonComplex: Am I an asshole for wondering how said rape transpired? More specifically, if it happened at a frat party, she got too much to drink, and things went sour? If so, although still a terrible thing, live and learn, own up to your own shortcomings, and carry on


Seriously? If someone is raped while drunk, they should just accept that being raped is the price one pays for having the audacity to imbibe a legal substance?
 
2013-02-26 12:57:28 AM

JohnnyRebel88: True Story:
 My good friend that has the utmost credibility to me and others, and is a pussy, was accused of rape.  The police did not follow through with the charges.  She had cheated on her boyfriend with my friend, whom I believed he hated.  Women wanna get f*d sometimes because they are whores, drunks and liars.  This woman has no reason to do this if she was leading to his name, which I am sure she was doing, also is it not considered to be defamation as to the school's credibility.  Unless this is a Sandusky type case, she should shut the f up and get help elsewhere.

This could of been personal, she also might of threatened the school.  No info, no reason to be up in arms.


True story: My senior year of high school, a buddy of mine who was meek and had the utmost credibility was accused of rape by a female friend of his.  We were all up in arms about it.  She had a boyfriend who was in boot camp, and he told us (and we all figured he was right) that they had gotten drunk and boned and she was looking to justify it.  Our friend was a total gentleman, and not a farking rapist.

Then a couple of years later, a female friend of both of ours woke up after a night of partying to see him sitting on her bed fingering her.  But she made the excuse that maybe she led him on, and she was drunk enough that maybe she even told him he could, and he stopped and he's a nice guy so everyone drop it.

Then a couple years later, another female friend awoke to him trying to take her pants off.  Luckily, she was sober and knew that she hadn't been hitting on him, because she had just told him the day before that she had a boyfriend and he needed to stop asking her out on a date.

I'm now 100% convinced that me and my friends were wrong about what happened that day in high school.  But yeah, at the time he sure seemed credible.
 
2013-02-26 12:57:38 AM

Genevieve Marie: Philbb: bigwf2007: She describes him as a rapist. The words rape or rapist appear four times in the Huffington Post article. The phrase "sexual assault" appears seven times.

So, what's your point? She describes "him" as a rapist yet, never publicly identifies "him". Are we to assume that the rapist might be a "her"? That's not unprecedented, but is still very unlikely. She thinks it was an ex-boyfriend, but doesn't give any more details than that.

It's highly unlikely. Violent rape of a woman by another woman? That's so unbelievably statistically rare.

Plus- I'm fairly sure that she'd know what type of body part penetrated her. We can probably accept the victim's word on the gender of her rapist.


That was kind of my point.
 
2013-02-26 12:57:43 AM

Genevieve Marie: In a criminal case, this is exactly why a lot of rapists walk. However? This isn't a criminal case at this point. This girl is participating in a civil case against the school. Totally different standard of proof.

No one's freedom is at stake, and people don't have an inalienable right to a good reputation.


Oh, I agree. I'm more trying to talk about the general culture and perception of rape accusations. Though I somewhat disagree on that last bit. You don't have the right to a good reputation, but at the same time you do have the right to try to address unfair contraventions of it in a libel/slander case. It's just that in some sense that's a bit "simpler" than the criminal case because then you don't have to decide guilt based on some nebulous "reasonable doubt" but just have to decide who you believe more. Of course, that is still plenty difficult in some cases, I'm sure.
 
2013-02-26 12:58:14 AM
I have a friend who was accused of rape when he was in high school. It was a mutual encounter, but for months the allegations and suspicions followed him. It was a small town, so he really couldn't go out, without people threatening to hurt him.

She eventually recanted, (I can't remember why)  But he has a big vendetta against any rape accusations, due to his experiences
 
2013-02-26 12:58:44 AM

Weaver95: skullkrusher:
umm... huh?
You're saying stuff but it's not making any sense.
You're stomping your feet claiming to know what the story is about and exhorting me to pay attention. Yeah, I'm paying attention. Read a few articles on it even. It is complicated yet you are getting all bothered by the fact that I am not focusing solely on one aspect of it. Sorry dude, talk to someone else then

oo, good call.  denial is always a good choice.  and making it all about you?   that's like...bonus round!  anything to avoid talking about how badly the university handled this situation, right?  'cause if I were to somehow bring the focus back onto that subject, you'd be screwed, right?


holy shiat you're terrible at this. I've said a number of times that this girl has gotten poor treatment at the hands of the school. I've put "honor court" in quotes every farking time I've typed the words. I've said that it is indefensible if the school is trying to retaliate against her for filing charges. Yet you're just gonna be dishonest 'cause if you were to somehow actually discuss shiat rather than waving your hands and pretending that you've got it all figured out if only I'd listen, you'd be screwed, right?

As I always say, you just flipped the coin dude. You didn't change, you're just wearing a new uniform
 
2013-02-26 12:59:58 AM

Philbb: Popular Opinion: ...these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).


I was responding to "the few who do won't listen" which has next to nothing to do with "the 'typical college rapist'".

I was just pointing out that the comment that guys who do need to be told won't listen "because they know exactly what the fark they're doing. " was too broad. That there are many who really believe that they are the victims and it's "her" fault because "she" was asking for it.


i'm sure there are real sociopaths in the sample, but most (imho) just learned to do whatever they want, as long as they think they can get away with it.
they grow up knowing dad cheats on mom and his tax return...
certainly no fear of eternal damnation lol....
frightening and sad how common this is....
 
2013-02-26 01:00:38 AM

doglover: ciberido: After all, Superman is known for his strength, not his speed.

This has to be the trolliest thing I've read in this thread so far, and I've been reading my own posts.


I have to try to put a little humor in these threads at some point or my head would explode with rage.  I'm trying to re-learn the art of dealing with Farkwits and maintaining some degree of serenity, or at least sanity.

Seriously, getting mad at stupid people and reading Fark is a recipe for disaster.
 
2013-02-26 01:02:13 AM

pudding7: bigwf2007: pudding7: Weaver95: bigwf2007: So has anyone actually been convicted of or even criminally charged with rape in this case?

the article doesn't make that point clear...but this isn't about the rape case.  this is about how the school handled allegations of rape, which was to apparently cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen on campus.

How could the school cover it up when the police were notified and a report was filed?

Actually, as someone later pointed oout to me there's a link in this article that says she chose to go to honor court rather than the police because it would be quicker and less complicated. So the answer is no, no one was ever charged with a crime.

Quicker and less complicated to do what?  Send the guy to prison?  Oh wait, she doesn't know who did it, so what exactly was she hoping the Honor Court would do more quickly and with fewer complications?



I think you may be confusing her with one of the other women, whiich has happened repeatedly in this thread. She's very clear that a boy she'd bee dating for about a year at that point attacked her.
 
2013-02-26 01:03:21 AM

ParagonComplex: Am I an asshole for wondering how said rape transpired? More specifically, if it happened at a frat party, she got too much to drink, and things went sour? If so, although still a terrible thing, live and learn, own up to your own shortcomings, and carry on. If not, sue these mother frakkers for ... no, not "for all they're worth", because pieces of trash like this aren't worth much, but sue them for more than they're worth, get out of that piece of garbage school, and educate people so something like this never happens again.

Regardless of how the rape transpired it's still a disgrace to the human race to violate a victim all over again. The courage it took this girl to speak out about it should be rewarded and not commended.


You seem to be arguing with yourself here.    Like even within the same thought.
 
2013-02-26 01:03:34 AM

Genevieve Marie: ExperianScaresCthulhu: So shiat didn't go her way, now she gets to defame this dude forever. What the fk ever.

It's only defamation if you believe she was lying. As there is no evidence that this is the case, I have to believe you're basing  this assertion on your own biases.


Yes, these are my own biases.

The court she chose to go before didn't rule in her favor.  She doesn't get a free pass.  This is what is going down: she didn't get her way, so now she is defaming dude forever.  She's playing 'take backs'.  There's no evidence that she's telling the truth, either.

You write for women's mags (among others) professionally.  You're a professional feminist.  You get paid for it.  More power to you for doing what you love and making a living out of it. That's awesome. Own up to your own biases.

She wants to continue down this road, she needs to press real charges instead of defaming this dude forever.  And if that doesn't go her way, she'll still defame this dude forever.  Such is life.  But at least she has her day in real court instead of continuing to try to use the court of public opinion to make this guy pay for whatever.
 
2013-02-26 01:04:38 AM

Genevieve Marie: ParagonComplex: Am I an asshole for wondering how said rape transpired? More specifically, if it happened at a frat party, she got too much to drink, and things went sour? If so, although still a terrible thing, live and learn, own up to your own shortcomings, and carry on

Seriously? If someone is raped while drunk, they should just accept that being raped is the price one pays for having the audacity to imbibe a legal substance?


i think he is saying that if he drank until he passed out at a gay bar, he'd have only himself to blame for any intrusion into his personal body parts while in that state of intoxication.
 
2013-02-26 01:04:47 AM

Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: we have the same problem with PSU. the local cops wouldn't DARE follow up on a pedo rape accusation without talking to the university first. in a lot of ways, PSU football was more akin to a cult than a school franchise.

And sadly, you could apply that to a ton of other universities as well. People are bad at seeing patterns though. It should be fairly obvious by now that any insular patriarchal institution that's considered inviolable and perfect is going to provide an atmosphere that allows rape culture to thrive.

Catholic church. Penn state. Numerous other universities whose athletes get away with acquaintance rape.


And this is why I say call a real cop, despite the SANE exam and all the other shiat.  And if the cops don't do their farking job, go to the feds like this girl did.

And call your parents, no matter what.  They will come up with a lawyer and you will need one.
 
2013-02-26 01:04:47 AM

Weaver95: ok this has been fun  but I gotta get up early in the morning.  i'll check back tomorrow to see how deep the rabbit hole went and who I need to add to my 'women hating/pro-rape' list of GOP shills on fark.


Me me me me me.
 
2013-02-26 01:05:34 AM
I missed the part in the article where it says the guy was convicted of rape before an actual court that saw evidence. Who knows if it happened or not?
 
2013-02-26 01:06:14 AM

ciberido: Seriously, getting mad at stupid people and reading Fark is a recipe for disaster.


:D
 
2013-02-26 01:06:18 AM
HotWingAgenda:
I'm sure we agree on this issue in real life, despite stupid fark arguments.
 
2013-02-26 01:06:38 AM

Darth_Lukecash: I have a friend who was accused of rape when he was in high school. It was a mutual encounter, but for months the allegations and suspicions followed him. It was a small town, so he really couldn't go out, without people threatening to hurt him.

She eventually recanted, (I can't remember why)  But he has a big vendetta against any rape accusations, due to his experiences


As he should.
 
2013-02-26 01:06:40 AM
Also, to all the men who are all "Oh just go straight to the police, bam conviction. Easy." Think about it more- try to imagine how you'd feel after say, waking up hungover, because maybe you had too much to drink and maybe someone drugged you. Then realizing that the guy in bed next to you raped you the night before. Now you're still sick and confused and you know something's wrong, but you can't quite put words to it, I mean, you know this guy. Maybe not all that well- he's in a few of your classes. But he seems pretty normal. Also, he's putting on his clothes and leaving and telling you bye and acting like whatever just happened wasn't that big a deal, even though you know you didn't want to have sex with him and you know you didn't say yes. In fact, you remember telling him you weren't interested. But you know that accusing someone of rape is a huge deal and you know the circumstances are pretty fuzzy.

So what's your first reaction? Do you jump out of bed and go "Oh man, clearly this was rape and I must go to the police right now." Do you sit through a rape kit which takes hours, go through a full gynecological exam (which is way more invasive than most men probably realize) and have people combing over every part of your naked body and all of your body cavities for any trace of evidence all the while knowing your story probably isn't going to hold up in court?

Or do you just try and move on as best you can... but still, you're afraid of this person. You know what they did wasn't right and they don't make you feel safe. All of a sudden, they're turning up wherever you are. You're depressed and sad and school no longer feels like a safe place to be.

At that point, would it not maybe occur to you to seek help from the school administration? And would it not be totally devastating to be accused of lying and basically told to suck it up?

That right there- that is the reality of campus rape most of the time. Many people know this, and yet schools are still very resistant to providing any services for women who go through this.
 
2013-02-26 01:07:43 AM

COMALite J: BarkingUnicorn: Damn, you really know your imaginary history!

Which part is imaginary? That Clayton Williams really said that? That it cost him the election? That Ann Richards won because of that? That George W. Bush was able to run against her afterwards because the GOP had no incumbent in the race? That George W. Bush could never have been taken seriously enough to run for, let alone become, President, without first being Governor of a State or a U.S. Senator? That George W. Bush's two terms, which could not have happened without that joke, seriously messed up this nation?


That we'd be $4 trillion richer if Bush hadn't been elected.
 
2013-02-26 01:10:04 AM

pudding7: Faster and easier to accomplish what?  That's what I'm not getting.  What exactly is the Honor Court process supposed to result in?Real cops = convicted rapist goes to prisonHonor court = a stern talking to or something?


I could be wrong, but my read of the situation from the couple articles I've read/skimmed is that she didn't want to go through the process of bringing formal charges -- perhaps she felt she didn't have the evidence for it, or didn't want to go through the emotional trauma for an uncertain outcome -- and would have been satisfied with an easier path to a weaker resolution. I'll make up story that seems plausible to me.

She brought it to the Honor Court less as "punish him!" and more as "please take reasonable measures to keep him away from me." However, he dropped out during the proceedings, the University allegedly said that they would notify her if he reenrolled and try to put him in a dorm far away. But surprise, he reenrolled and they put him across the street. [These are true.]
 
2013-02-26 01:10:22 AM

Cataholic: There are likely scores of men sitting in prison who were falsely convicted of rape (not because they are the wrong man, but because no rape occurred).  There are also thousands of women who have been raped and for which no person has been convicted of doing it.  Why does anyone feel the need to pick one side over the other instead of supporting a system that would reduce both?


Ah, the good old "false accusations of rape are just as big a problem as rape itself" argument.  I always enjoy the classics.
 
2013-02-26 01:10:35 AM
Ok haven't read every comment because the trolling of this subject makes me ill. Some things just aren't funny. My personal feeling is that rape, especially violent rape, Proven in a court of law should be eligible for the death penalty where it applies. My wife was a victim of rape (before we were married) at a college we both attended. The rapist was eventually caught and it was found he had raped at least 5 other women. Sure give them the ridiculous amount of appeals etc.. but if they are Proven guilty after that kill the f*cking bastards. (Or biatches if that is the situation). Rape steals life from a person in that it is something they can never forget. No mercy for them if they are legally convicted. Say I'm a libtard-true. Say I don't understand the cry wolf theory-possibly also true. fark them. All convicted rapists deserve to die.
 
2013-02-26 01:12:05 AM

Genevieve Marie: Also, to all the men who are all "Oh just go straight to the police, bam conviction. Easy." Think about it more- try to imagine how you'd feel after say, waking up hungover, because maybe you had too much to drink and maybe someone drugged you. Then realizing that the guy in bed next to you raped you the night before. Now you're still sick and confused and you know something's wrong, but you can't quite put words to it, I mean, you know this guy. Maybe not all that well- he's in a few of your classes. But he seems pretty normal. Also, he's putting on his clothes and leaving and telling you bye and acting like whatever just happened wasn't that big a deal, even though you know you didn't want to have sex with him and you know you didn't say yes. In fact, you remember telling him you weren't interested. But you know that accusing someone of rape is a huge deal and you know the circumstances are pretty fuzzy.


If the above story is considered rape, then the definition of rape has grown to encompass so much that it is virtually un-provable and nearly un-distinguishable from consensual sex when examined after the fact.
 
2013-02-26 01:12:36 AM

BSABSVR: JohnnyRebel88: True Story:
 My good friend that has the utmost credibility to me and others, and is a pussy, was accused of rape.  The police did not follow through with the charges.  She had cheated on her boyfriend with my friend, whom I believed he hated.  Women wanna get f*d sometimes because they are whores, drunks and liars.  This woman has no reason to do this if she was leading to his name, which I am sure she was doing, also is it not considered to be defamation as to the school's credibility.  Unless this is a Sandusky type case, she should shut the f up and get help elsewhere.

This could of been personal, she also might of threatened the school.  No info, no reason to be up in arms.

True story: My senior year of high school, a buddy of mine who was meek and had the utmost credibility was accused of rape by a female friend of his.  We were all up in arms about it.  She had a boyfriend who was in boot camp, and he told us (and we all figured he was right) that they had gotten drunk and boned and she was looking to justify it.  Our friend was a total gentleman, and not a farking rapist.

Then a couple of years later, a female friend of both of ours woke up after a night of partying to see him sitting on her bed fingering her.  But she made the excuse that maybe she led him on, and she was drunk enough that maybe she even told him he could, and he stopped and he's a nice guy so everyone drop it.

Then a couple years later, another female friend awoke to him trying to take her pants off.  Luckily, she was sober and knew that she hadn't been hitting on him, because she had just told him the day before that she had a boyfriend and he needed to stop asking her out on a date.

I'm now 100% convinced that me and my friends were wrong about what happened that day in high school.  But yeah, at the time he sure seemed credible.


That's actually a pretty common occurrence. That's why it's pretty generally understood that one of the reasons the rape rate is so high is because the same rapist generally commits multiple rapes. Often, that's what it also takes for a conviction- multiple cases that establish a pattern against someone.

People generally really don't want to acknowledge that the guy they think of as a pretty decent dude is a rapist.
 
2013-02-26 01:12:46 AM
Oops, I meant "indistinguishable". Damn English language
 
2013-02-26 01:12:52 AM

Genevieve Marie: Also, to all the men who are all "Oh just go straight to the police, bam conviction. Easy." Think about it more- try to imagine how you'd feel after say, waking up hungover, because maybe you had too much to drink and maybe someone drugged you. Then realizing that the guy in bed next to you raped you the night before. Now you're still sick and confused and you know something's wrong, but you can't quite put words to it, I mean, you know this guy. Maybe not all that well- he's in a few of your classes. But he seems pretty normal. Also, he's putting on his clothes and leaving and telling you bye and acting like whatever just happened wasn't that big a deal, even though you know you didn't want to have sex with him and you know you didn't say yes. In fact, you remember telling him you weren't interested. But you know that accusing someone of rape is a huge deal and you know the circumstances are pretty fuzzy.

So what's your first reaction? Do you jump out of bed and go "Oh man, clearly this was rape and I must go to the police right now." Do you sit through a rape kit which takes hours, go through a full gynecological exam (which is way more invasive than most men probably realize) and have people combing over every part of your naked body and all of your body cavities for any trace of evidence all the while knowing your story probably isn't going to hold up in court?

Or do you just try and move on as best you can... but still, you're afraid of this person. You know what they did wasn't right and they don't make you feel safe. All of a sudden, they're turning up wherever you are. You're depressed and sad and school no longer feels like a safe place to be.

At that point, would it not maybe occur to you to seek help from the school administration? And would it not be totally devastating to be accused of lying and basically told to suck it up?

That right there- that is the reality of campus rape most of the time. Many people know this, and yet schools are still very r ...


now, just to play devil's advocate, and you're so opinionated on the subject...
what should happen when somebody falsely accuses somebody of rape?
because right now, nothing seems to happen to these lying biatches that can ruin somebody's life for the hell of it, or because they are jealous, or were not supposed to be out...or whatever their goddamned excuse it for lying.
let's start with punishing liars and then we don't have to listen to stupid cops being skeptical...they don't want to ruin somebody's life knowing the accuser has nothing to risk if they are lying.
 
2013-02-26 01:13:14 AM

stiletto_the_wise: If the above story is considered rape, then the definition of rape has grown to encompass so much that it is virtually un-provable and nearly un-distinguishable from consensual sex when examined after the fact.


are you shiatting me
 
2013-02-26 01:13:15 AM

BSABSVR: JohnnyRebel88: True Story:
 My good friend that has the utmost credibility to me and others, and is a pussy, was accused of rape.  The police did not follow through with the charges.  She had cheated on her boyfriend with my friend, whom I believed he hated.  Women wanna get f*d sometimes because they are whores, drunks and liars.  This woman has no reason to do this if she was leading to his name, which I am sure she was doing, also is it not considered to be defamation as to the school's credibility.  Unless this is a Sandusky type case, she should shut the f up and get help elsewhere.

This could of been personal, she also might of threatened the school.  No info, no reason to be up in arms.

True story: My senior year of high school, a buddy of mine who was meek and had the utmost credibility was accused of rape by a female friend of his.  We were all up in arms about it.  She had a boyfriend who was in boot camp, and he told us (and we all figured he was right) that they had gotten drunk and boned and she was looking to justify it.  Our friend was a total gentleman, and not a farking rapist.

Then a couple of years later, a female friend of both of ours woke up after a night of partying to see him sitting on her bed fingering her.  But she made the excuse that maybe she led him on, and she was drunk enough that maybe she even told him he could, and he stopped and he's a nice guy so everyone drop it.

Then a couple years later, another female friend awoke to him trying to take her pants off.  Luckily, she was sober and knew that she hadn't been hitting on him, because she had just told him the day before that she had a boyfriend and he needed to stop asking her out on a date.

I'm now 100% convinced that me and my friends were wrong about what happened that day in high school.  But yeah, at the time he sure seemed credible.


Senior year of high school, lot of underaged drinking, dude is accused of rape, and biatches within the circle of friends still choose to get drunk in his presence? Years after the fact?

That's not even getting into the roll eyes of some chick getting drunk with this dude and claiming scout's honor that she'd never ever lead someone on while she was drunk (rollies rollies rollies) because she has a boyfriend (rollies infinity) -- that's some textbook 'I regret that I placed myself in this situation so I will absolve myself of any involvement of putting myself in this situation' crap.

Dude's an idiot for continuing to get drunk with hoes, but the entire group sounds like there isn't a bright bulb among the lot of them.
 
2013-02-26 01:13:28 AM

stiletto_the_wise: If the above story is considered rape, then the definition of rape has grown to encompass so much that it is virtually un-provable and nearly un-distinguishable from consensual sex when examined after the fact.


You think someone who is drunk or drugged being coerced into sex by someone they've told no isn't rape?
 
2013-02-26 01:13:55 AM

Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: Rape is bad. Dude does it, he needs his ass kicked hard and thrown in jail. Everyone should agree on that. But there needs to be heavy laws in place to protect guys too. The Duke case was a spectacular example of how lopsided the justice system is against men.

You're probably not even worth responding to, but disgusting and obnoxious misogyny aside, do you not realize how insanely stupid it is to use a case that got thrown out and where the prosecutor was disbarred and all the men were exonerated as an example of how unfair the justice system is to men?

Absolutely. You think this had no effect on the Duke players? Their lives were permanently screwed up. The entire nation wanted their heads on a plate because of the BS. kids arrested, death threats, whole locrosse team shut down, I mean, you think that is all okay? One made up story crushed a whole bunch of people. Even the coach was forced to resign. If that is not a perfect case to use, what it?

Misogyny? Really? Make you feel smart, Cupcake?

Their lives were permanently ruined? Yea, about that, buttercup.... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4980370


So he had to switch colleges after being dragged through the mud, nationally. Ya, that is awesome. Grow up.
 
2013-02-26 01:14:28 AM

Genevieve Marie: Also, to all the men who are all "Oh just go straight to the police, bam conviction. Easy." Think about it more- try to imagine how you'd feel after say, waking up hungover, because maybe you had too much to drink and maybe someone drugged you. Then realizing that the guy in bed next to you raped you the night before. Now you're still sick and confused and you know something's wrong, but you can't quite put words to it, I mean, you know this guy. Maybe not all that well- he's in a few of your classes. But he seems pretty normal. Also, he's putting on his clothes and leaving and telling you bye and acting like whatever just happened wasn't that big a deal, even though you know you didn't want to have sex with him and you know you didn't say yes. In fact, you remember telling him you weren't interested. But you know that accusing someone of rape is a huge deal and you know the circumstances are pretty fuzzy.

So what's your first reaction? Do you jump out of bed and go "Oh man, clearly this was rape and I must go to the police right now." Do you sit through a rape kit which takes hours, go through a full gynecological exam (which is way more invasive than most men probably realize) and have people combing over every part of your naked body and all of your body cavities for any trace of evidence all the while knowing your story probably isn't going to hold up in court?

Or do you just try and move on as best you can... but still, you're afraid of this person. You know what they did wasn't right and they don't make you feel safe. All of a sudden, they're turning up wherever you are. You're depressed and sad and school no longer feels like a safe place to be.

At that point, would it not maybe occur to you to seek help from the school administration? And would it not be totally devastating to be accused of lying and basically told to suck it up?

That right there- that is the reality of campus rape most of the time. Many people know this, and yet schools are still very r ...



Help to do what? Counseling? Sure. Take a semester off? OK. Declare someone guilty of a felony without a trial in a real court where he has legal counsel and due process? No. Have him kicked out of school based on that declaration? No, again.

UNC has decided not to allow sexual assault claims to go before the honor court anymore. That's a good decision regardless of whether they got things right in this case or not.
 
2013-02-26 01:14:30 AM

ciberido: Cataholic: There are likely scores of men sitting in prison who were falsely convicted of rape (not because they are the wrong man, but because no rape occurred).  There are also thousands of women who have been raped and for which no person has been convicted of doing it.  Why does anyone feel the need to pick one side over the other instead of supporting a system that would reduce both?

Ah, the good old "false accusations of rape are just as big a problem as rape itself" argument.  I always enjoy the classics.


False accusations are a bigger problem than rape, because there really is no recovery for the falsely accused.  There is no support network.  The taint is a deeper stain.
 
2013-02-26 01:15:53 AM

doglover: mesmer242: From what I can tell from the description of the "honor court", they got rid of the idea of lawyers and police officers, and made a bunch of college students both the judge and jury.

[i2.kym-cdn.com image 146x227]
Seriously!?


It started out innocently enough.   At first student courts handled only real "honor code" matters:  cheating on tests, streaking, puking in the communal showers, noise violations, and other college idiocies that real courts shouldn't be bothered with. Then they became tools of the schools for covering up real crimes.

"You student justices have done so well!  We think you're ready for more responsibilities."

The students ate it up, of course.
 
2013-02-26 01:16:10 AM

thorthor: Ok haven't read every comment because the trolling of this subject makes me ill. Some things just aren't funny. My personal feeling is that rape, especially violent rape, Proven in a court of law should be eligible for the death penalty where it applies.


c.suite101.com

How very white of you.
 
2013-02-26 01:16:27 AM

evaned: She brought it to the Honor Court less as "punish him!" and more as "please take reasonable measures to keep him away from me." However, he dropped out during the proceedings, the University allegedly said that they would notify her if he reenrolled and try to put him in a dorm far away. But surprise, he reenrolled and they put him across the street. [These are true.]


Let me just clarify: I kind of said this in my previous post, but I think I said it badly. The first sentence of this paragraph is what is speculation. The dropout/reenroll/neighbor thing, that's true.
 
2013-02-26 01:16:27 AM

Popular Opinion: Genevieve Marie: Also, to all the men who are all "Oh just go straight to the police, bam conviction. Easy." Think about it more- try to imagine how you'd feel after say, waking up hungover, because maybe you had too much to drink and maybe someone drugged you. Then realizing that the guy in bed next to you raped you the night before. Now you're still sick and confused and you know something's wrong, but you can't quite put words to it, I mean, you know this guy. Maybe not all that well- he's in a few of your classes. But he seems pretty normal. Also, he's putting on his clothes and leaving and telling you bye and acting like whatever just happened wasn't that big a deal, even though you know you didn't want to have sex with him and you know you didn't say yes. In fact, you remember telling him you weren't interested. But you know that accusing someone of rape is a huge deal and you know the circumstances are pretty fuzzy.

So what's your first reaction? Do you jump out of bed and go "Oh man, clearly this was rape and I must go to the police right now." Do you sit through a rape kit which takes hours, go through a full gynecological exam (which is way more invasive than most men probably realize) and have people combing over every part of your naked body and all of your body cavities for any trace of evidence all the while knowing your story probably isn't going to hold up in court?

Or do you just try and move on as best you can... but still, you're afraid of this person. You know what they did wasn't right and they don't make you feel safe. All of a sudden, they're turning up wherever you are. You're depressed and sad and school no longer feels like a safe place to be.

At that point, would it not maybe occur to you to seek help from the school administration? And would it not be totally devastating to be accused of lying and basically told to suck it up?

That right there- that is the reality of campus rape most of the time. Many people know this, and yet schools ...


Ah, the old classic of false equivalency. The "Can you prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt? No? Then be prepared to be prosecuted you lying slut" idea.

False rape accusations are relatively rare. They do not happen at nearly  the same scale as actual rape. This has been pretty well documented. And the idea that a victim should automatically go on trial for reporting a crime is malicious and farked up and not at all compatible with a fair criminal justice system.

If someone gets caught telling obvious falsehoods about someone else, they can be taken to civil court, and that's as it should be. But no, the idea that we should threaten anyone who reports a crime with prosecution if their story can't be proved is such bullshiat.
 
2013-02-26 01:18:36 AM

bigwf2007: Help to do what? Counseling? Sure. Take a semester off? OK. Declare someone guilty of a felony without a trial in a real court where he has legal counsel and due process? No. Have him kicked out of school based on that declaration? No, again.


In this case, all the victim wanted was him moved to a different part of campus and some protection from the school that kept him isolated from her as much as reasonably possible.

And yes, some counseling and some flexible academic arrangements would probably help.
 
2013-02-26 01:18:47 AM

Genevieve Marie: stiletto_the_wise: If the above story is considered rape, then the definition of rape has grown to encompass so much that it is virtually un-provable and nearly un-distinguishable from consensual sex when examined after the fact.

You think someone who is drunk or drugged being coerced into sex by someone they've told no isn't rape?


I didn't say that. What I said was that it's virtually un-provable and WHEN EXAMINED by a third party, indistinguishable from consensual sex. How do you prove it without having to take one side's word for it?

Another exercise: What if both woke up hung over, both believing they did not consent to the other side's advances? Did they rape each other?
 
2013-02-26 01:19:18 AM

doglover: cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: doglover: cowgirl toffee: Can we also say "potential rape-ie" when we refer to her?

Canola?

Yes. But, you can also use baby oil and a tarp. (?)
;)

No, only Canola is made out of 100% Canadian rape.

Hummmm....
Regardless, you should still try the baby oil and the tarp. Seriously. :D


Do ya'll remember Planescape: Tourment? The one item you couldn't buy from the curio shoppe was "Pure Baby Oil, pressed from 1000 babies"

Considering what you COULD buy in that game, it's odd you couldn't buy the oil, really.


thefilmexperience.net
Approves.
 
2013-02-26 01:24:31 AM

stiletto_the_wise: Genevieve Marie: stiletto_the_wise: If the above story is considered rape, then the definition of rape has grown to encompass so much that it is virtually un-provable and nearly un-distinguishable from consensual sex when examined after the fact.

You think someone who is drunk or drugged being coerced into sex by someone they've told no isn't rape?

I didn't say that. What I said was that it's virtually un-provable and WHEN EXAMINED by a third party, indistinguishable from consensual sex. How do you prove it without having to take one side's word for it?

Another exercise: What if both woke up hung over, both believing they did not consent to the other side's advances? Did they rape each other?


That's why you don't throw one party in jail and totally deprive them of their civil rights. That's actually exactly why a university has the opportunity to do a positive thing here, by mediating in the situation and providing help for the student who reports the rape and to a lesser degree, the other involved party. Counseling services. Dorm shifts. Separate class schedules. The kind of stuff that's within their purview.

And yes, it would probably help if they kept internal files and tracked those cases, so if the same rapist's name keeps coming up again and again in these types of cases, they know that moving forward with expulsion or turning him over to law enforcement is probably a good idea.
 
2013-02-26 01:24:57 AM

Genevieve Marie: bigwf2007: Help to do what? Counseling? Sure. Take a semester off? OK. Declare someone guilty of a felony without a trial in a real court where he has legal counsel and due process? No. Have him kicked out of school based on that declaration? No, again.

In this case, all the victim wanted was him moved to a different part of campus and some protection from the school that kept him isolated from her as much as reasonably possible.

And yes, some counseling and some flexible academic arrangements would probably help.


Then she should go to the police. She only wanted him moved? On what basis? Her word? That is the problem. You just assume he is a bad man because depressed chick says so. What do you think happens to a guy at college that is punished for rape, without actually being so much as investigated by police? The chick should move, and stay away from him. Go to the police or shut the hell up. Problem is, as soon as she opens her mouth, truth or lie, it does not matter. The guy is guilty in the eyes of almost everyone, and that is simply not fair.

He should sue her for all she is worth.
 
2013-02-26 01:25:19 AM
Genevieve Marie:
Ah, the old classic of false equivalency. The "Can you prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt? No? Then be prepared to be prosecuted you lying slut" idea.

False rape accusations are relatively rare. They do not happen at nearly  the same scale as actual rape. This has been pretty well documented. And the idea that a victim should automatically go on trial for reporting a crime is malicious and farked up and not at all compatible with a fair criminal justice system.

If someone gets caught telling obvious falsehoods about someone else, they can be taken to civil court, and that's as it should be. But no, the idea that we should threaten anyone who reports a crime with prosecution if their story can't be proved is such bullshiat.

at no point in my statement did i suggest any such equivalency.
if that is how you deflect the question, by misstating or purposely changing the intention of the comment, there is no point in discussing it with you.

civil court? lol.
nice.
how about perjury?
i'm not talking about innocent case of mistaken identity, i am talking about harmful prosecution
 
2013-02-26 01:26:04 AM

Popular Opinion: how about perjury?


If someone lies under oath, sure. Do you know how rare it is for false accusations to make it to a court room?
 
2013-02-26 01:26:17 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: now she gets to defame this dude forever.


Once again I point out that this lawsuit has absolutely nothing to do with her rapist. It is based on how the school responded when she went to them seeking help. She found other "victims" who say that the school also failed to deal with them appropriately.

Also, unless you know who "this dude" is, your claim that she is defaming "him" has no merit.
 
2013-02-26 01:26:58 AM
Wow, it took this long for this?

www.filehurricane.com
 
2013-02-26 01:27:08 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: biatches


It takes a lot of work to intentionally miss the point that intentionally and completely.  Have yourself a Mountain Dew.


Genevieve Marie: People generally really don't want to acknowledge that the guy they think of as a pretty decent dude is a rapist.


Which is why the "my buddy in college was an awesome and funny guy and got falsely accused and I know this because he was my pal and therefore awesome and above such things" anecdote doesn't hold a lot of sway with me.  It's certainly possible that decent dude met a super unstable woman, but sometimes that decent dude is secretly a major asshole.

It's also possible that the "unstable" woman who is acting way less cool than she was last night might be acting that way on account of being raped.
 
2013-02-26 01:27:45 AM

Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.


Bullshiat.  Do you honestly think all the laws against rape are "not telling men not to rape"?
 
2013-02-26 01:27:49 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: thorthor: Ok haven't read every comment because the trolling of this subject makes me ill. Some things just aren't funny. My personal feeling is that rape, especially violent rape, Proven in a court of law should be eligible for the death penalty where it applies.



How very white of you.


Wtf is that supposed to mean exactly?
 
2013-02-26 01:28:01 AM

meat0918: Condom wrapped banana


I swear, I remember in college some damnfool set up that display...and then made it a contest of SPEED.  Yes, how fast can you smack on the jimmy hat?

They were also using plastic "fruit" (which added to the reusability factor, I suppose, but also made the practice modules inhumanly durable...no "bruising" issues at all...)  -so some girls put every ounce of speed the could muster into jamming it on.

I still remember the photo that the campus newspaper reporter had snapped of it.  Two girls having just finished a speed trial, grinning savagely at each other as their forearms bulged with the effort of slamming a thin plastic wrap around a six inch dowel in under a second, knuckles sliding off the end to crack against the table with resounding "THUMP"s
...
And the photobombing guy in the background, slackjawed at what he just witnessed.
I can't tell if he was aroused that there were women who might be interested in learning that skill in this school, or terrified at the method employed.
 
2013-02-26 01:28:02 AM

Thunderpipes: Weaver95: Thunderpipes:
I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well, and a woman on the board no less telling the chick she is a douche, I side with the college. Months of this evil abusive boyfriend, and then she goes to the college to get the guy in trouble? She was right. First time a guy abuses you, leave. Christ, not like she was married with kids and dependent either. And she was depressed and had suicide attempts? Crazy chick.

The other girl with head wound, go to the police, let them handle it.

its like you suffer from some form of mental disease or something....

How am I in any way wrong? Seriously. I am not. I am just not a panty waste crybaby head like most people. Dude hits you, leave. Story over. Sooner we stop allowing people to act like children and refuse to take responsibility for their actions, better we will be. Funny how society doesn't attack chicks that whip their husbands, huh?

Grow a pair, Cupcake.


Leave? I taught my daughter to instead "Stand her ground" and shoot your punk son in the face.......The NRA and the rest of the right will be behind us .....right.......
 
2013-02-26 01:28:38 AM

BSABSVR: Genevieve Marie: People generally really don't want to acknowledge that the guy they think of as a pretty decent dude is a rapist.

Which is why the "my buddy in college was an awesome and funny guy and got falsely accused and I know this because he was my pal and therefore awesome and above such things" anecdote doesn't hold a lot of sway with me. It's certainly possible that decent dude met a super unstable woman, but sometimes that decent dude is secretly a major asshole.

It's also possible that the "unstable" woman who is acting way less cool than she was last night might be acting that way on account of being raped.


Yup. Those anecdotes never hold much sway with me either, but I've learned not to argue them. It tends to turn ugly really quickly.
 
2013-02-26 01:29:42 AM

BarkingUnicorn: doglover: mesmer242: From what I can tell from the description of the "honor court", they got rid of the idea of lawyers and police officers, and made a bunch of college students both the judge and jury.

[i2.kym-cdn.com image 146x227]
Seriously!?

It started out innocently enough.   At first student courts handled only real "honor code" matters:  cheating on tests, streaking, puking in the communal showers, noise violations, and other college idiocies that real courts shouldn't be bothered with. Then they became tools of the schools for covering up real crimes.

"You student justices have done so well!  We think you're ready for more responsibilities."

The students ate it up, of course.


4.bp.blogspot.com


I AM THE LAW. But let's make this quick, I got some O-chem homework due tomorrow.
 
2013-02-26 01:29:55 AM
I'm really confused by this article. Why is a case involving sexual assault being dealt with a university and not by the criminal justice system? This statement almost makes it sound like she chose this venue:

"It's the venue in which Gambill attempted to resolve the sexual assault and stalking she claims she suffered at the hands of her ex-boyfriend." 

For the love of god why?This sort of thing is so far beyond a "Honor Court" its ridiculous. Take it out of clown shoe court and bring it to a real court with actual real adults where the alleged rapist will have to worry about more than just his reputation.
 
2013-02-26 01:30:11 AM