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(Huffington Post)   Student charged with an honor code violation for "intimidating" her rapist by speaking publicly   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 1269
    More: Sick, Chapel Hill, honor code, sex crimes, Office of Civil Rights, Amherst College, art fair, U.S. Department of Education, graduate students  
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28388 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2013 at 10:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-26 09:52:07 AM
This is one where the Uni's student kangaroo court should have immediately deferred to the police & legal system.   One of the most important things you can know in life are your limits.   In this case the Uni, student court both failed to realize their limits.

Now, the story itself seems a bit more unclear.  She woke up covered in blood?  She didn't know what happened? She didn't know how she got there? No one else knows?  Doesn't sound right there.

/have had to counsel numerous women after being raped
//would love to cut the dicks off rapists
///have NO tolerance for people who wake up the next morning after being drunk and go oh-my-god, I slept with someone I didn't want to...RAPE!!!!
 
2013-02-26 09:52:47 AM

5monkeys: Thanks. I will. I honestly thought I was further than this. I should really avoid rape threads.


Honestly, I think just about anyone with a soul would find this thread depressing. No weakness in avoiding things that make you feel bad- there are a lot of fun threads where the misogyny doesn't get out of control.
 
2013-02-26 09:53:25 AM

Genevieve Marie: heili skrimsli: Holy shiatballs. If that's what you do on a daily basis, you really need to lower the defcon level. You're actually afraid of being on an elevator with a guy you don't know and you use a mirror to look over your shoulder? You have some serious issues that you need to work on, because that goes way, way beyond the normal level of situational awareness that all people should be exercising in order to avoid making themselves a target for a crime of opportunity. If I saw you walking around like that, I would assume that you are terrified, weak and an easy target because that is the image your self-described behavior projects.

Have you never spoken to most women about how they look out for themselves? I'm not even close to atypical here. That's why it's so hilarious to see men be all "Well you should really learn to watch out for your surroundings."

No shiat, Sherlock. We kind of know that. We've integrated it into our normal routines and most of us do it totally unconsciously and without letting it interrupt our normal days. You wouldn't be able to look at me and tell that I'm alert to strangers around me. You can't look at most women and tell that. Doesn't mean we don't do it.

Now be grateful that you had the privilege to be born in a world that doesn't demand the same of you and then blame you if you fail to be vigilant for a few hours and become a victim.


I'm big on the keys between my fingers. My girls 14,12, and 8 have all been taught that trick. Other lessons include never park in a parking lot at night with no lights. Always have your cell charged and out. Never be afraid to scream. Always scan an area before you enter. Never go alone. It is sad, but it is our reality. All of my friends who are woman do the same, or have other safety tricks.
 
2013-02-26 09:54:42 AM

Thunderpipes: Genevieve,

Why not just jail all men right now? Only way to be safe, right? Pales in comparison to the what ifs if we let them walk the streets. According to you, that should be legal.


Why are you trying to keep all non-rapist men afraid? You've been continuously spouting this false accusation bullshiat, in an effort to turn it into a men vs. women thing. But it's not. It's a normal person vs. sociopath thing. And we're on to you.
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-26 09:55:09 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Ebbelwoi: Ah, the ole "if it's not in the article, its existence is unpossible" theory.

You can't just make sh*t up and expect me to agree with you.


You can be obtuse all day long if you want.  Anytime things like this happens it spreads like wildfire on facebook, twitter, whatsapp, and all the other social networking sites.  If you want to make the silly assumption that his identity has survived the average campus Twittersphere, enjoy the long ride that is the rest of your life on the short bus.
 
2013-02-26 09:55:19 AM

Dissociater: I'm not even sure what people are arguing about at this point...


basically there are two factions:

pro-rapists, who believe that rape isn't a 'real crime' and that the university shouldn't accommodate any whiny biatch who makes a claim of rape no matter what she says or does.   in their view, the university is completely justified in ignoring 67 cases of alleged rape and not giving those victims the benefit of the doubt.  the pro-rapists also honestly believe that a shoddy, student run 'honor system' (with no training or experience) is a great way to handle student allegations of rape and that all students who claim rape should be forced to use that system instead of going to the cops.  oh, and it goes without saying that complaining about how bad an idea all of the above is, should get you bounced from the university because rocking the boat and complaining about being treated badly by the university means you're an ungrateful asshole.

the anti-rapists, who believe the university should have found a better way to handle these claims of rape, and addressed the issue with the students and faculty to come up with a policy that acknowledged claims of rape and handled them with confidentiality and professionalism.  oh, and it goes without saying that the anti-rape crowd thinks rape is wrong and that we should stop blaming the victim(s).  the anti-rape faction is also largely horrified by the knuckle dragging dick holes who seem to think rape isn't a real crime and is torn between vomiting in disgust or trying to gently explain to the pro-rapists that they really shouldn't be pro-rape because rape is bad.
 
2013-02-26 09:55:54 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Well that's not very nice


No, I'm not commenting on you. You will not fail because of something wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with you (so far as I know). The problem is the hierarchy of power, silence, and fear already in place in law enforcement. I have read too many articles about decent people -- starry-eyed idealists -- who believed they could change the corruption and abuse of the system from the inside who were instead chewed up and spit out.
 
2013-02-26 09:56:07 AM

Sean M: Now, the story itself seems a bit more unclear. She woke up covered in blood? She didn't know what happened? She didn't know how she got there? No one else knows? Doesn't sound right there.


The article covers multiple cases. In the one you're referring to, the woman was diagnosed with a concussion resulting from the attack. Her disorientation and memory loss had a diagnosable physical cause.

And yea, if she was alone and beaten up, it makes total sense that no one would know what happened or how it went down.
 
2013-02-26 09:57:21 AM
Thanks, Genevieve Marie. As if I didn't already waste enough time online. :P
 
2013-02-26 09:58:14 AM

James F. Campbell: Thanks, Genevieve Marie. As if I didn't already waste enough time online. :P


I generally try to turn bad threads as positive as  I can :) Enjoy!
 
2013-02-26 09:59:10 AM

Weaver95: Dissociater: I'm not even sure what people are arguing about at this point...

basically there are two factions:

pro-rapists, who believe that rape isn't a 'real crime' and that the university shouldn't accommodate any whiny biatch who makes a claim of rape no matter what she says or does.   in their view, the university is completely justified in ignoring 67 cases of alleged rape and not giving those victims the benefit of the doubt.  the pro-rapists also honestly believe that a shoddy, student run 'honor system' (with no training or experience) is a great way to handle student allegations of rape and that all students who claim rape should be forced to use that system instead of going to the cops.  oh, and it goes without saying that complaining about how bad an idea all of the above is, should get you bounced from the university because rocking the boat and complaining about being treated badly by the university means you're an ungrateful asshole.

the anti-rapists, who believe the university should have found a better way to handle these claims of rape, and addressed the issue with the students and faculty to come up with a policy that acknowledged claims of rape and handled them with confidentiality and professionalism.  oh, and it goes without saying that the anti-rape crowd thinks rape is wrong and that we should stop blaming the victim(s).  the anti-rape faction is also largely horrified by the knuckle dragging dick holes who seem to think rape isn't a real crime and is torn between vomiting in disgust or trying to gently explain to the pro-rapists that they really shouldn't be pro-rape because rape is bad.


Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?
 
2013-02-26 09:59:22 AM

Fluorescent Testicle: 5monkeys: My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim.

This is the part of rape that nobody really talks about - it happened to me, too. Not even one of my (soon-to-be-former) friends believed me until another girl in our group admitted that the same guy had raped her as well, and even then, about half of them decided that we both had to be liars because he was so much older and more mature than we were. Even after he was arrested, put on trial and convicted...

On the other hand, at least my parents believed me, and he'll be rotting in prison for the rest of his worthless child-molesting life. That thought always brings a smile to my face.

/Internet group hugs.
//This thread is so much nicer with all of the pro-rape farkwits plonked.


I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I am so proud of you for doing what I was afraid to do and getting his sick ass tossed in jail. Those people who didn't believe it even after he was convicted are the same ones who cry foul if you don't go to the cops. They don't want to believe they couldn't spot the monster therefore he couldn't be one. Bunch of aholes.
 
2013-02-26 10:00:36 AM

Genevieve Marie: No shiat, Sherlock. We kind of know that. We've integrated it into our normal routines and most of us do it totally unconsciously and without letting it interrupt our normal days. You wouldn't be able to look at me and tell that I'm alert to strangers around me. You can't look at most women and tell that. Doesn't mean we don't do it.


As do all men, you know, although we are in general not perhaps quite as terrified that bad things will happen to us in an elevator. Know who form the overwhelming majority of victims of street violence? Yup, young men. And no, they are not to blame if they get mugged.
 
2013-02-26 10:01:03 AM

Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?


because they don't believe rape is a 'real' crime.  near as I can tell, they believe the victim is a lying whore and that 'real rape' is rare and almost never happens to anyone.
 
2013-02-26 10:01:24 AM

Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

I have had women friends show me whistles, steak knives, and other implements they carry with them at all times to hopefully ward off a rapist.  I have sat in a room of 25 other college football players and heard them all agree that, if they were raping a girl anyway, they may as well sodomize her while they were at it.  And I have seen teenage girls dragged through the mud by the media when they dare go public against their accusers.


And then, there's "Carolina Girls"..... well known in the area by the not-so-scientific observations:

What's the first thing a Carolina Girl does in the morning?
-- walks home

What's the difference between a Carolina Girl and a pink Cadillac?
-- not everyone's been inside a pink Cadillac

What's the difference between a Carolina Girl and a phone booth?
-- only 3 football players can fit in a phone booth
 
2013-02-26 10:02:05 AM

thorthor: ExperianScaresCthulhu: thorthor: Ok haven't read every comment because the trolling of this subject makes me ill. Some things just aren't funny. My personal feeling is that rape, especially violent rape, Proven in a court of law should be eligible for the death penalty where it applies.

How very white of you.

Wtf is that supposed to mean exactly?


It means that the death penalty is a joke when the only people getting the death penalty are the poor.  It also means that the United States has a very long and sad history of railroading men (and boys) with rape accusations that (surprise surprise) turned out to be false or commited by someone who was higher up on the status quo than the accused.

So.. it's very white of you to go all White Knight.  I don't know what you are or what your ethnicity is or your family history in this country.  Whatever it is, you haven't had to deal with the repercussions of a false accusation, personally or socially or community-wise --  and you never will.

If you end up being a Black Man, .... your miseducation about  your history.. I can't even finish.

Anyway, the day some biatch doesn't come back and say 'I lied because I was afraid of my boyfriend/husband/father finding out' is the day when we can start discussing the Old Testament treatment.
 
2013-02-26 10:04:21 AM

htomc: And then, there's "Carolina Girls"..... well known in the area by the not-so-scientific observations:


Ah, so in other words they're sluts. And everyone knows sluts can't be raped.

And this is totally not misogynistic and anyone who sees the misogyny is the REAL misandrist. Or something.
 
2013-02-26 10:04:58 AM

Tat'dGreaser: 5monkeys: I wish my brother was like you. Your sister is very lucky.

Heh, just recently some guy took advantage of her financially. Sure it was her fault she shouldn't have lent him money but that doesn't make it right. Thankfully for her the guy is Active Duty Army and I know how they are with private debt. Got his name, rank and unit. Called my 1SG, he called his 1SG and the guy ended up paying my sister back plus interest.

James F. Campbell: Yeah, well, good luck with that. I predict failure.

Well that's not very nice


Good for you! I have five kids and pray that my herd takes care of each other like that. It was just my brother and me and he never liked me. We don't even talk now because he likes to toss me around and as an adult I don't have to take that. Its been 9 years and I finally gave up. I had a brother, a long time ago. I don't anymore.
 
2013-02-26 10:05:29 AM

Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?


There isn't. Nobody has made anything closely approaching the points characterised as pro-rape. Everybody here is anti-rape, but some of us take a less simplistic view of life than others, and don't believe, for example, that the word "rape" immediately trumps all notions of justice, due process and evidence.
 
2013-02-26 10:06:49 AM

Weaver95: Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?

because they don't believe rape is a 'real' crime.  near as I can tell, they believe the victim is a lying whore and that 'real rape' is rare and almost never happens to anyone.


That sounds like crazy talk to me.
 
2013-02-26 10:08:43 AM
img136.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-26 10:08:47 AM

Genevieve Marie: And I'd agree with that. Thankfully, the rules were revised here and that kind of rape IS recognized... especially when committed on a child. Actually, from what I understand, pedophilia is one of the areas where female rapists can be statistically significant. Men are at their most vulnerable to most types of sexual assault as young children.


As I understand it, the FBI redefinition still has some issues, although it is a start. The US is still ahead of the UK on this one.
 
2013-02-26 10:09:24 AM

Dissociater: Weaver95: Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?

because they don't believe rape is a 'real' crime.  near as I can tell, they believe the victim is a lying whore and that 'real rape' is rare and almost never happens to anyone.

That sounds like crazy talk to me.


http://www.alternet.org/speakeasy/brucewilson/supersized-chart-repub li can-rape-gaffes-highlights-growing-influence-religious

'nuff said.
 
2013-02-26 10:09:30 AM

Genevieve Marie: Callous: So that statement that I bolded in my previous post, where another poster stated that a rape could be prevented. When you jumped all over it and called it ugly, ugly bullshiat, what exactly were you trying to say there?

That the implication that rape can ALWAYS be prevented and that if a woman fails to prevent it, she is somehow complicit in it is hideous. And that's always the context there.

Women actually do know how to look out for this stuff. It's hammered into us from the time we hit puberty. Usually people aren't as good about spelling out the fact that rape happens anyway, and it's not your fault, even if it happened at a moment where you let your guard down for a second.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.


But that's not what Zim said.  He said it can be prevented, not that it can always be prevented.  Zim's post was clearly about mitigating risk.

A pedestrian getting run over is always the fault of the driver.  That doesn't mean that you walk out into the street without looking first.

If you have unprotected consensual sex with a person that lied to you about being HIV+ it's 100% the fault of the liar if you become infected.  But infection could have been prevented by insisting on using protection.  But there's a chance the condom could break, so it can't always be prevented.  Stop reading absolutes into everything everyone posts when they are discussing risk.  Risk is a sliding scale and never absolute.
 
2013-02-26 10:10:25 AM

Genevieve Marie: fredklein: So, you'd rather 'handle' an entire lifetime of knowing it happened and you let him get away with it, rather than an hour or two in the ER, and a day in court??

I'll never understand women.

Then you have really terrible empathy skills. You've also got the privilege of being raised to believe that generally people will believe you.


Well, yeah. Partly because, if I claim a crime was committed, I go to the authorities and provide evidence. I don't skulk about spreading rumors.

You've had the great fortune to never experience life as a teenage girl- where mostly, the whole world treats you like you're stupid and where really strange notions of sexual purity and chastity are foisted upon you.

TWIAVBP- How teen girls are treated where you are may/may not be how they are treated elsewhere. I can say for sure that MY girls will not be treated like that, and I know of others, as well.

Most people can put themselves in someone else's shoes, and at least understand why it would be so traumatic to share something terrifying and deeply personal with the world,

Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

knowing that you might not be believed

Rape is often one of those 'he said/she said' crimes- the only 'evidence' is the testimony of both sides. In any such case, there are those who will tend to believe one side or the other. This is the way it is, and nothing can be done about it. Unless you propose the Law automatically believe the accuser?? Screw 'evidence'- throw the man in jail!!

and that a lot of people would be angry at you for telling.

People who are angry at you for telling the truth? Why do you care what twisted people like that think??

Most people can also at least understand that a rape exam is not a minor inconvenience- it's a whole other violation and one that's particularly terrifying to a teenage girl.

And, again, that's the way it is. Evidence must be collected. That cannot be changed, unless, again, you want the cops to simply believe any and all accusations automatically.
 
2013-02-26 10:12:45 AM
I know how to deal with this.
But it will have to be done quietly.
 
2013-02-26 10:12:58 AM

Callous: Genevieve Marie: Callous: So that statement that I bolded in my previous post, where another poster stated that a rape could be prevented. When you jumped all over it and called it ugly, ugly bullshiat, what exactly were you trying to say there?

That the implication that rape can ALWAYS be prevented and that if a woman fails to prevent it, she is somehow complicit in it is hideous. And that's always the context there.

Women actually do know how to look out for this stuff. It's hammered into us from the time we hit puberty. Usually people aren't as good about spelling out the fact that rape happens anyway, and it's not your fault, even if it happened at a moment where you let your guard down for a second.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.

But that's not what Zim said.  He said it can be prevented, not that it can always be prevented.  Zim's post was clearly about mitigating risk.

A pedestrian getting run over is always the fault of the driver.  That doesn't mean that you walk out into the street without looking first.

If you have unprotected consensual sex with a person that lied to you about being HIV+ it's 100% the fault of the liar if you become infected.  But infection could have been prevented by insisting on using protection.  But there's a chance the condom could break, so it can't always be prevented.  Stop reading absolutes into everything everyone posts when they are discussing risk.  Risk is a sliding scale and never absolute.


You can try and prevent bad things from happening, but even if you don't that doesn't make the bad thing your fault. You can do all the things and still be raped. You can do none of the things and still be raped. Either way the rapist is wrong, not the victim.
 
2013-02-26 10:13:41 AM

orbister: Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?

There isn't. Nobody has made anything closely approaching the points characterised as pro-rape. Everybody here is anti-rape, but some of us take a less simplistic view of life than others, and don't believe, for example, that the word "rape" immediately trumps all notions of justice, due process and evidence.


if it was one or two women claiming rape...ok, I can see your point.  But the university has over 60 women all with similar stories.  kinda makes me wonder what's going on on with that campus and why the school administration tanked the discussion and shuffled it off to kiddie court.
 
2013-02-26 10:15:05 AM

Callous: Genevieve Marie: Callous: So that statement that I bolded in my previous post, where another poster stated that a rape could be prevented. When you jumped all over it and called it ugly, ugly bullshiat, what exactly were you trying to say there?

That the implication that rape can ALWAYS be prevented and that if a woman fails to prevent it, she is somehow complicit in it is hideous. And that's always the context there.

Women actually do know how to look out for this stuff. It's hammered into us from the time we hit puberty. Usually people aren't as good about spelling out the fact that rape happens anyway, and it's not your fault, even if it happened at a moment where you let your guard down for a second.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.

But that's not what Zim said.  He said it can be prevented, not that it can always be prevented.  Zim's post was clearly about mitigating risk.

A pedestrian getting run over is always the fault of the driver.  That doesn't mean that you walk out into the street without looking first.

If you have unprotected consensual sex with a person that lied to you about being HIV+ it's 100% the fault of the liar if you become infected.  But infection could have been prevented by insisting on using protection.  But there's a chance the condom could break, so it can't always be prevented.  Stop reading absolutes into everything everyone posts when they are discussing risk.  Risk is a sliding scale and never absolute.


Yes, but exactly how far are women expected to go to mitigate risk? And do you see why it's such an impossible standard to demand of women- the idea that all or most rapes can be prevented if only we're careful enough? And how irksome it is to hear some dude spout off something about risk management like he's just discovered the theory of relativity when what he's talking about is second nature to most women?

And also- do you not get how not ok it is to bring up in reference to a rape that's already happened. The implication there is always "Shame. If only she'd done something to prevent it from happening to her." That is ALWAYS shifting the burden back onto the woman in question- implying that in some small way, she's at least partially responsible for the choice someone else made to violate her body.

It's such an unkind thing to do.
 
2013-02-26 10:17:21 AM

5monkeys: I told my best friend because I trusted her. I didn't expect her to tell anyone else.


Oh, please. The three fastest forms of spreading information: telephone, telegraph, and tell a woman.

If you really believe that all you go through reporting a rape is an hour or two in an er and a day in court then I am not surprised that you don't understand woman, because you don't understand reality.

Eh, so a few hours, and a couple days. Whatever. It was not meant to be precisely literal. Sheesh. Cut me a break. (disclaimer- I neither want you to actually 'cut' me, nor 'break' anything!)
 
2013-02-26 10:17:39 AM

fredklein: Genevieve Marie: fredklein: So, you'd rather 'handle' an entire lifetime of knowing it happened and you let him get away with it, rather than an hour or two in the ER, and a day in court??

I'll never understand women.

Then you have really terrible empathy skills. You've also got the privilege of being raised to believe that generally people will believe you.

Well, yeah. Partly because, if I claim a crime was committed, I go to the authorities and provide evidence. I don't skulk about spreading rumors.

You've had the great fortune to never experience life as a teenage girl- where mostly, the whole world treats you like you're stupid and where really strange notions of sexual purity and chastity are foisted upon you.

TWIAVBP- How teen girls are treated where you are may/may not be how they are treated elsewhere. I can say for sure that MY girls will not be treated like that, and I know of others, as well.

Most people can put themselves in someone else's shoes, and at least understand why it would be so traumatic to share something terrifying and deeply personal with the world,

Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

knowing that you might not be believed

Rape is often one of those 'he said/she said' crimes- the only 'evidence' is the testimony of both sides. In any such case, there are those who will tend to believe one side or the other. This is the way it is, and nothing can be done about it. Unless you propose the Law automatically believe the accuser?? Screw 'evidence'- throw the man in jail!!

and that a lot of people would be angry at you for telling.

People who are angry at you for telling the truth? Why do you care what twisted people like that think??

Most people can also at least understand that a rape exam is not a minor inconvenience- it's a whole other violation and one that's particularly terrifying to a teenage girl.

And, again, that's the way it is. Evidence must be collected. That cannot be changed, unless, again, you want the cops to simply believe any and all accusations automatically.


Then don't blame a victim for not wanting to go through the collection of the evidence. Don't trivialize the act itself as a pee pee going in a hoo ha. Don't accuse people of trying to spread rumors by just talking to others about what happened to them. Don't be a douche. From your comments I don't think that is possible.
 
2013-02-26 10:18:00 AM
fredklein:
Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

Why does it have to be compared to attempted murder in order to be serious?  Can something not be terrifying or personal if it's not being threatened at gun point?  Who said the feelings of assault victims don't count?

Besides the fact that it's taking something that's supposed to be a good and fun thing (sex) and turning it into something traumatic and painful.  Can you not see how this could not only affect a rape victim in the moment, but also for the rest of their life?  It could affect future and current romantic relations quite seriously.  This should be apparent.
 
2013-02-26 10:19:43 AM

fredklein: Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)


What in the f*ck is wrong with you?
 
2013-02-26 10:20:30 AM

Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

What in the f*ck is wrong with you?


he's one of those 'pro-rape' guys I was referring to earlier.
 
2013-02-26 10:20:43 AM

Sean M: This is one where the Uni's student kangaroo court should have immediately deferred to the police & legal system.   One of the most important things you can know in life are your limits.   In this case the Uni, student court both failed to realize their limits.

Now, the story itself seems a bit more unclear.  She woke up covered in blood?  She didn't know what happened? She didn't know how she got there? No one else knows?  Doesn't sound right there.

/have had to counsel numerous women after being raped
//would love to cut the dicks off rapists
///have NO tolerance for people who wake up the next morning after being drunk and go oh-my-god, I slept with someone I didn't want to...RAPE!!!!


Right, because there's no such thing as date-rape drugs that leave someone with fuzzy or no memories beyond the point where they only had one drink. (>_<)#
 
2013-02-26 10:21:24 AM

orbister: Genevieve Marie: You've either got reading comprehension issues or you truly suck at grasping subtle points. By force I don't mean just physical violence. Force can be going after someone who is physically incapacitated. It can be coercing someone in a way that makes them feel like they have no real choice. Rape is always a controlling thing to do, and it always involves some type of force, be it physical, psychological or chemical.

Another disappointing ad-hominem. And now you're just defining "force" so widely as to be totally meaningless.


Legally `force` is what we normally take it to mean,  i.e. physical force although the lower end of what consitutes force is the force required to push the penis into the vagina or other orifice. As such there needs to be nothing more than the lack of consent and the pushing of the penis into the vagina for it to be classed as rape. Physical incapacitation is a lack of consent, chemical incapacitation also removes the possibility of consent, neither is force by themselves.

All rape is coercive rape, the method of coercion changes and can be through violence, force, incapacitation through drink or drugs or threats to others to name some. coercion is not force although force can be used to coerce.
 
2013-02-26 10:21:30 AM

fredklein: Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)


You seriously don't understand why rape is  deeply personal? Why a teenage girl in particular would feel so dirty and violated and ashamed of what happened to her? How following that up with an examination that lasts several hours and involves more unwanted objects being stuck in your bodily orifices might be too terrifying to contemplate in a moment where you feel dirty and scared and alone?

And are you seriously trying to imply that talking about the way a teenage girl might feel about rape means I'm totally ignoring the fact that men can be scared to? Or are you so blinded by your own privilege that you think any discussion about women is automatically exclusionary to men?

And dude, seriously? Do you not get why someone might be more embarrassed and ashamed to share the details of sexual assault than they would be to report a mugging?

If you have daughters and you can't even extend incredibly basic empathy towards young women, I feel really terrible for them- and terrible for you too, because it's going to have a negative influence on your relationship with them whether you're aware of it or not.
 
2013-02-26 10:22:06 AM
From the comments section of the Daily Tarheel.  Obviously I have no way of knowing if this is even remotely legit.  Readers can make their own judgements:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/02/sexual-assault-victim-ch ar ged


If you are a new supporter of Landen Gambill, I ask that you please take Landen Gambill's comments and new accusations with an intense dose of skepticism, if not full disbelief:
I was part of the court when her case was heard, though I post anonymously to preserve my identity. I merely represent a whistleblower, of sorts.
I saw almost no evidence to substantiate her claims of abuse and rape. She was given full and proper counsel and assistance during her case (which had the involvement of the Undergraduate Student Attorney General, herself), and she was allowed with no prohibition to enter evidence of all types to complete her accusation. We heard testimony from reliable witnesses, and from the accuser and accused themselves. What we didn't hear was a pattern of abuse that she is now claiming to have been involved in. We did not see large bruises, signs of trauma, or negligence from her body, and we did not see evidence of any kind likewise from her submitted. If she was raped, she did not provide ANY forensic or even circumstantial evidence to support her claims. What we did see was admission of clinical depression and paranoia, mental instability, and suicidal tendencies. We saw dialogue and e-mails, messages on facebook from her ex-boyfriend that support a claim of retaliation from her. She may now claim that that occurred AFTER her supposed rape, but there is evidence to the contrary. To counter possible claims of sexism: gender/sex/sexual orientation of court members is always random and in her case she was afforded female representation. The interim court was also headed by a faculty member.
I have been a part of and heard multiple sexual assault cases as a court member, and hers was anything but adequate to sufficiently convince anyone of an occurrence of rape. This is what was meant when Crisp said, "the good faith report of a rape ..." The good faith in her report did not exist.
In the current charge by Ireland (since Grayson has a conflict of interest now that she can no longer represent her) that she made an 'intimidating environment' for her ex-boyfriend, there was evidence that she harassed him, after he had left her, through facebook and by posting endlessly on her wall about supposed abuse by him, and continued to do so through public discourse. One does not need a name to be smeared, slandered, and libeled against. Conversely, one does not need a name to commit any of those actions, as well. The court found her case not reliable enough to constitute truthful admission, as seen by the verdict of Not Guilty by the interim, faculty-led court. Thus, her continued portrayal of her ex-boyfriend as a rapist is unjust and cruel, which warrants both charges given to her. This is and will be obvious as the University processes her case, despite current naive protests by the student body.
Further, she has the right in the Instrument to make her court hearing public, which she will not likely do, as it would involve introducing her prior case, her ex-boyfriend, and the insurmountable evidence produced to the contrary.
I hope this serves as a warning to actual victims to report their case so that a proper and thorough investigation may produce the truth and serve legal, criminal justice against the abuser. I was also a victim of sexual assault my sophomore year, and I found justice through our legal system. Please consider it an option at all times. I would also like to heavily condemn any person with depression that threatens suicide to keep an individual in a relationship.
 
2013-02-26 10:22:26 AM

FatherChaos: Wow, it took this long for this?


www.filehurricane.com

writersgallery.com
 
2013-02-26 10:22:48 AM

Weaver95: Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

What in the f*ck is wrong with you?

he's one of those 'pro-rape' guys I was referring to earlier.


I didn't think it was a thing but...here we are.
 
2013-02-26 10:23:42 AM

Weaver95: Dissociater: I'm not even sure what people are arguing about at this point...

basically there are two factions:

pro-rapistsstrawmen, who believe that rape isn't a 'real crime' and that the university shouldn't accommodate any whiny biatch who makes a claim of rape no matter what she says or does.   in their view, the university is completely justified in ignoring 67 cases of alleged rape and not giving those victims the benefit of the doubt.  the pro-rapists also honestly believe that a shoddy, student run 'honor system' (with no training or experience) is a great way to handle student allegations of rape and that all students who claim rape should be forced to use that system instead of going to the cops.  oh, and it goes without saying that complaining about how bad an idea all of the above is, should get you bounced from the university because rocking the boat and complaining about being treated badly by the university means you're an ungrateful asshole.

the anti-rapists, who believe the university should have found a better way to handle these claims of rape, and addressed the issue with the students and faculty to come up with a policy that acknowledged claims of rape and handled them with confidentiality and professionalism.  oh, and it goes without saying that the anti-rape crowd thinks rape is wrong and that we should stop blaming the victim(s).  the anti-rape faction is also largely horrified by the knuckle dragging dick holes who seem to think rape isn't a real crime and is torn between vomiting in disgust or trying to gently explain to the pro-rapists that they really shouldn't be pro-rape because rape is bad.


FTFY
 
2013-02-26 10:24:33 AM

Dissociater: Weaver95: Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

What in the f*ck is wrong with you?

he's one of those 'pro-rape' guys I was referring to earlier.

I didn't think it was a thing but...here we are.


some guys don't believe rape is a crime.  and there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.
 
2013-02-26 10:25:19 AM

fredklein: 5monkeys: I told my best friend because I trusted her. I didn't expect her to tell anyone else.

Oh, please. The three fastest forms of spreading information: telephone, telegraph, and tell a woman.

If you really believe that all you go through reporting a rape is an hour or two in an er and a day in court then I am not surprised that you don't understand woman, because you don't understand reality.

Eh, so a few hours, and a couple days. Whatever. It was not meant to be precisely literal. Sheesh. Cut me a break. (disclaimer- I neither want you to actually 'cut' me, nor 'break' anything!)


Wow. So you believe just because I shared something bad that happened to me with my closest friend as a way to cope with what happened that I really was trying to slander some innocent guy. Way to put intent on something that wasn't there. And "a couple of days"? Do you have even the slightest clue about our legal system and how long it takes to wade through it? Have you ever seen what happens to a victim when she follows the process through? You have to relive the moment over and over. You are labeled a liar by many.
 
2013-02-26 10:25:28 AM

Weaver95: he's one of those 'pro-rape' guys I was referring to earlier.


Am I crazy or did he also say he has daughters?
 
2013-02-26 10:26:12 AM

Weaver95: Dissociater: Weaver95: Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: Terrifying? Deeply personal? A guy stuck his pee pee in your hoo ha, against your will. Why is that any more "terrifying" than a man, say, having a loaded gun pointed at his head? Or a man being beaten half to death? (Or don't men's feelings count?)

What in the f*ck is wrong with you?

he's one of those 'pro-rape' guys I was referring to earlier.

I didn't think it was a thing but...here we are.

some guys don't believe rape is a crime.  and there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.


And god, when those guys have daughters, it makes me sick to my stomach to think of what it would be like for that girl to have to go through anything like this with that kind of parent and being raised in a household that promotes these ideas.
 
2013-02-26 10:27:15 AM

Weaver95: Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?

because they don't believe rape is a 'real' crime.  near as I can tell, they believe the victim is a lying whore and that 'real rape' is rare and almost never happens to anyone.


Rape is a real crime. Women who claim to be victims are sometimes lying (and sometimes are whores). And rape is relatively rare (90,000, compared to 2,000,000 burglaries, for example).
 
2013-02-26 10:27:35 AM

fredklein: Rape is often one of those 'he said/she said' crimes- the only 'evidence' is the testimony of both sides. In any such case, there are those who will tend to believe one side or the other. This is the way it is, and nothing can be done about it. Unless you propose the Law automatically believe the accuser?? Screw 'evidence'- throw the man in jail!!


Theft is often one of those 'he said/she said' crimes- the only 'evidence' is the testimony of both sides. In any such case, there are those who will tend to believe one side or the other. This is the way it is, and nothing can be done about it. Unless you propose the Law automatically believe the accuser?? Screw 'evidence'- throw the man in jail!!

Same goes for fraud, too. But yet, somehow, we're able to judge the credibility of the complaining victim and the credibility of the accused and figure out what to do. Why should sexual crimes be the one area where we throw our hands up and say "gosh, witness testimony isn't enough evidence!"
 
2013-02-26 10:28:16 AM

fredklein: Weaver95: Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?

because they don't believe rape is a 'real' crime.  near as I can tell, they believe the victim is a lying whore and that 'real rape' is rare and almost never happens to anyone.

Rape is a real crime. Women who claim to be victims are sometimes lying (and sometimes are whores). And rape is relatively rare (90,000, compared to 2,000,000 burglaries, for example).


I rest my case.
 
2013-02-26 10:28:27 AM

fredklein: Weaver95: Dissociater: Why is there anyone that is pro-rape?

because they don't believe rape is a 'real' crime.  near as I can tell, they believe the victim is a lying whore and that 'real rape' is rare and almost never happens to anyone.

Rape is a real crime. Women who claim to be victims are sometimes lying (and sometimes are whores). And rape is relatively rare (90,000, compared to 2,000,000 burglaries, for example).


So, if they're 'whores' it's ok?  If yes, why?  If no, why mention it at all?

Even assuming rape is rare, does that make it less serious?  If yes, why?  If no, why mention it at all?
 
2013-02-26 10:29:19 AM
I am so, so glad a few decent human beings woke up and wandered in here.
 
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