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(Huffington Post)   Student charged with an honor code violation for "intimidating" her rapist by speaking publicly   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 1268
    More: Sick, Chapel Hill, honor code, sex crimes, Office of Civil Rights, Amherst College, art fair, U.S. Department of Education, graduate students  
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28393 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2013 at 10:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-26 03:36:19 AM

doglover: Abacus9: From my experience, college is completely different from real life when it comes to rape.

Who the hell did you hang out with? The Crips?


No (but somewhat coincidentally, some of the disabled guys in our dorm would jokingly call themselves that). I'm talking about just regular students: some football players, some fraternity guys, and one paramedic to be specific. And I didn't hang out with them, I happened to live in the same dorm. The friends I hung out with didn't share the attitude. In fact, most of the girls I knew were victims on at least one occasion. It did wonders for their self-esteem. By which I mean depression and anxiety meds.
 
2013-02-26 03:38:20 AM

Jesda: Ahh, rape. derp. Feminists  Jesda loves it as much as right wingnuts love war.


Fixed. *
 
2013-02-26 03:38:46 AM
Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.
 
2013-02-26 03:41:11 AM

evaned: In the context where I originally brought that up, I was in some sense talking about one specific trial. Yes, I was talking about why it's polarizing, but my argument was that part of the reason it's polarizing is because there seems to be a lot less physical evidence to judge cases by. And that's a statement about each individual case, not all of them, because you have to judge each case as it comes up.


Fair enough.
 
2013-02-26 03:43:00 AM

doglover: Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.


What kind of rape are you talking about? Stranger rape where someone's room gets broken into or they get attacked while walking around? Because that's not at all how people react to rape where the victim knows her rapist and that's the vast majority of rapes.
 
2013-02-26 03:44:13 AM

Genevieve Marie: evaned: I understand that you probably were using hyperbole and, if asked, would acknowledge the problem of prison sentences. At the same time, I bet you'd have jumped on someone who appeared to be semi-sincerely trying to downplay how bad of a crime rape is.

Yes, but do you not get why it gets INCREDIBLY frustrating to have the "Well men can face false accusations of rape, and that's horrible and wrong" discussion in every single thread about rape, like that's relevant to the topic at hand and a totally logical thing to bring up in discussion? It almost without fail gets brought up as the corollary to stories about women being raped. "Oh yes, but men can be ACCUSED of rape, so that's something that we need to take into consideration in this story."

It is always a derailing tactic. It always implies that the woman in question is lying. And it happens no matter who the victim is, who the perpetrator is or what the facts of the article are and it happens on stories where the accused has not even been charged with a crime. Where all the victim is doing is speaking about their experience.

So yes, forgive me for not taking the conversational thread about how terrible false accusations can be seriously, but I'm done allowing that to become the focus of a thread about rape. Next time a story from the innocence project crops up about a wrongful conviction, I will be all over that too, and I'll be more than happy to criticize the justice system and how the case was handled and I'll be completely on the side of the man whose rights were trampled on- I always am. (And generally, the man in question is a low income black man. Not a middle class university student.) That discussion will be totally relevant in that thread and I'll be happy to have it.

But in this one? A story about the systemic cover up by a university of the reported rapes of 65 students? Any "But what about the men" discussion in this thread is bullshiat and should be recognized as such.


yes, well said
 
2013-02-26 03:45:02 AM

Genevieve Marie: But in this one? A story about the systemic cover up by a university of the reported rapes of 65 students? Any "But what about the men" discussion in this thread is bullshiat and should be recognized as such.


There are days I wish that I had never even heard the term "concern troll."

Like with "anti-rape," there are terms the existence of which imply the need of same, and it's really depressing to contemplate why we even need words for such concepts.
 
2013-02-26 03:48:02 AM

Kazan: White Southern Men like Rape. More at 11


FTFY
 
2013-02-26 03:51:01 AM

liquidsiphon: Empathy isn't exactly a shining quality I've found in people.


Unless they're on the same team, in the same frat, or worship at the same church, or post on the same Fark.  In other words, I'm likely to empathize with you if the alternative is to lose something that's connected to me, like my university's reputation.

If a student is sent up for rape, that reputation will suffer; it's inevitable.  I have empathy for the accused.  But if I have a well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up, then they don't get my empathy; at least, they get less of it than the accused.
 
2013-02-26 03:51:43 AM

Genevieve Marie: doglover: Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.

What kind of rape are you talking about? Stranger rape where someone's room gets broken into or they get attacked while walking around? Because that's not at all how people react to rape where the victim knows her rapist and that's the vast majority of rapes.


A statistically significant number are intrafamilial (AKA incest) too.
 
2013-02-26 03:52:02 AM

orbister: Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

That's trite nonsense. No man can possibly reach adulthood without knowing that rape is wrong and that society properly detests rapists. The idea that "we do not tell our men not to rape" is as daft as "we do not tell our men not to murder". When, at school, did you ever have a class specifically telling you not to murder people?



Speaking of trite nonsense, what you said might be true of men were not constantly inundated with the message that most rape isn't true legitimate rape rape (which of course "shuts the whole thing down").

To go with your analogy, it would be like if we lived in a country where no man could possibly reach adulthood without knowing that murder is wrong and that society properly detests murderers, except, you know, killing a guy for touching your stuff isn't MURDER murder.

After all, he touched your stuff.  He was asking for it.
 
2013-02-26 03:55:21 AM

Genevieve Marie: doglover: Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.

What kind of rape are you talking about? Stranger rape where someone's room gets broken into or they get attacked while walking around? Because that's not at all how people react to rape where the victim knows her rapist and that's the vast majority of rapes.


Stranger rape. Date rape. Rape rape. Canola. Too many terms.

Rape is: (insert your unambiguous definition here)
 
2013-02-26 03:56:39 AM

ciberido: orbister: Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

That's trite nonsense. No man can possibly reach adulthood without knowing that rape is wrong and that society properly detests rapists. The idea that "we do not tell our men not to rape" is as daft as "we do not tell our men not to murder". When, at school, did you ever have a class specifically telling you not to murder people?


Speaking of trite nonsense, what you said might be true of men were not constantly inundated with the message that most rape isn't true legitimate rape rape (which of course "shuts the whole thing down").

To go with your analogy, it would be like if we lived in a country where no man could possibly reach adulthood without knowing that murder is wrong and that society properly detests murderers, except, you know, killing a guy for touching your stuff isn't MURDER murder.

After all, he touched your stuff.  He was asking for it.


"She was drunk!" is still used as an excuse for "It wasn't rape."

To quote Yale's take on it:
"Sexual activity requires consent, which is defined as clear, unambiguous, and voluntary agreement between the participants to engage in specific sexual activity. Consent cannot be inferred from the absence of a "no"; a clear "yes," verbal or otherwise, is necessary.  "

"Consent cannot be obtained from someone who is asleep or otherwise mentally or physically incapacitated, whether due to alcohol, drugs, or some other condition. Consent cannot be obtained by threat, coercion, or force. Agreement given under such conditions does not constitute consent. "
 
2013-02-26 03:58:09 AM

BarkingUnicorn: liquidsiphon: Empathy isn't exactly a shining quality I've found in people.

Unless they're on the same team, in the same frat, or worship at the same church, or post on the same Fark.  In other words, I'm likely to empathize with you if the alternative is to lose something that's connected to me, like my university's reputation.

If a student is sent up for rape, that reputation will suffer; it's inevitable.  I have empathy for the accused.  But if I have a well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up, then they don't get my empathy; at least, they get less of it than the accused.


Point take, although I don't think empathy means understanding one's point of view. I always thought it meant considering all points of view. A well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up would involve a lack of empathy as I understand it.

Unless they are in the same frat or... on son-of-a-biatch.
 
2013-02-26 03:59:45 AM

doglover: Genevieve Marie: doglover: Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.

What kind of rape are you talking about? Stranger rape where someone's room gets broken into or they get attacked while walking around? Because that's not at all how people react to rape where the victim knows her rapist and that's the vast majority of rapes.

Stranger rape. Date rape. Rape rape. Canola. Too many terms.

Rape is: (insert your unambiguous definition here)


You didn't answer my question. You stated that when a rape was reported on campus, lights would be turned brighter, women would be really careful and you implied that men would start carrying weapons.

I have to assume you're talking about stranger rape- or what happens when a woman  is assaulted by someone who accosts her while she's walking around or by someone who has broken into the place where she lives. That's the only way that assertion makes sense.

Or did people start carrying weapons and turn the lights up when a woman who got drunk at a party told her friends that a fraternity guy who was there raped her that night? Because somehow I doubt that's the case.
 
2013-02-26 04:01:04 AM

doglover: Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.


Well, that gets everyone outdoors where most rapes don't occur.

Who's walking the residence halls?
 
2013-02-26 04:07:23 AM

liquidsiphon: BarkingUnicorn: liquidsiphon: Empathy isn't exactly a shining quality I've found in people.

Unless they're on the same team, in the same frat, or worship at the same church, or post on the same Fark.  In other words, I'm likely to empathize with you if the alternative is to lose something that's connected to me, like my university's reputation.

If a student is sent up for rape, that reputation will suffer; it's inevitable.  I have empathy for the accused.  But if I have a well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up, then they don't get my empathy; at least, they get less of it than the accused.

Point take, although I don't think empathy means understanding one's point of view. I always thought it meant considering all points of view. A well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up would involve a lack of empathy as I understand it.

Unless they are in the same frat or... on son-of-a-biatch.


Empathy means the ability to put yourself in another's place; to perceive and respond to things from another's perspective.  You get to choose whose.  Naturally, it's easier if you're already partly in the other's place, in the same boat.

I guess I might have empathy for the victim, after all.

"Honey, I feel your pain.  This could ruin both our reputations.  But I have a well-developed method for avoiding that.  You trust me, don't you?"
 
2013-02-26 04:08:51 AM

Theaetetus: She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response.


I just wanted to point out that you're a complete farking moron with this lame-azz line of non-reasoning.  She did not once go to any police, campus, city, county, state, or otherwise.  North Carolina has no statute of limitations on felonies.  Gambill claims to have "pages and pages" of incriminating "evidence" which she claims very publicly are damning for the accused.  Although she is working overtime in her efforts to implicate the university, she still seemingly has not found the time to drop by the local police dept to file charges and give them copies of the "evidence".  If she has damning evidence, the accused could be sitting in a jail cell TOMORROW..... if only she would simply press charges.  And yet... for some strange reason.... she doesn't.

Basically, she's a moron too.
 
2013-02-26 04:10:15 AM

BarkingUnicorn: liquidsiphon: BarkingUnicorn: liquidsiphon: Empathy isn't exactly a shining quality I've found in people.

Unless they're on the same team, in the same frat, or worship at the same church, or post on the same Fark.  In other words, I'm likely to empathize with you if the alternative is to lose something that's connected to me, like my university's reputation.

If a student is sent up for rape, that reputation will suffer; it's inevitable.  I have empathy for the accused.  But if I have a well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up, then they don't get my empathy; at least, they get less of it than the accused.

Point take, although I don't think empathy means understanding one's point of view. I always thought it meant considering all points of view. A well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up would involve a lack of empathy as I understand it.

Unless they are in the same frat or... on son-of-a-biatch.

Empathy means the ability to put yourself in another's place; to perceive and respond to things from another's perspective.  You get to choose whose.  Naturally, it's easier if you're already partly in the other's place, in the same boat.

I guess I might have empathy for the victim, after all.

"Honey, I feel your pain.  This could ruin both our reputations.  But I have a well-developed method for avoiding that.  You trust me, don't you?"


I just said empathy doesn't mean understanding one's point of view. Dammit that sucks.
 
2013-02-26 04:11:39 AM

Ebbelwoi: Theaetetus: She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response.

I just wanted to point out that you're a complete farking moron with this lame-azz line of non-reasoning.  She did not once go to any police, campus, city, county, state, or otherwise.  North Carolina has no statute of limitations on felonies.  Gambill claims to have "pages and pages" of incriminating "evidence" which she claims very publicly are damning for the accused.  Although she is working overtime in her efforts to implicate the university, she still seemingly has not found the time to drop by the local police dept to file charges and give them copies of the "evidence".  If she has damning evidence, the accused could be sitting in a jail cell TOMORROW..... if only she would simply press charges.  And yet... for some strange reason.... she doesn't.

Basically, she's a moron too.


This really is gonna work out bad for you.
 
2013-02-26 04:13:53 AM

Genevieve Marie: You didn't answer my question. You stated that when a rape was reported on campus, lights would be turned brighter, women would be really careful and you implied that men would start carrying weapons.


I didn't women would be more careful, I said they wouldn't be alone. They'd get escorts as required, and I don't mean lithe Filipino dancing men with abs you could grate assorted cheeses on whose company, while friendly, comes at set rates. I mean friends escorting them home.

What I've never seen is a reasonable allegation of rape ignored. If someone was accused of using drugs or violence to coerce sex from someone, there would be a reckoning. I've never seen anything as abysmal as that kid who was crackin' jokes about the girl who just got raped in real life. That kind of shiat is so rare, it makes the news and so offensive and wrong even the people in the video are disgusted by the kid.
 
2013-02-26 04:16:39 AM
Hey farkers,

In this thread you said "rape" 1112 times. 1113...

Carry on.
 
2013-02-26 04:16:45 AM

Ebbelwoi: Theaetetus: She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response.

I just wanted to point out that you're a complete farking moron with this lame-azz line of non-reasoning.  She did not once go to any police, campus, city, county, state, or otherwise.  North Carolina has no statute of limitations on felonies.  Gambill claims to have "pages and pages" of incriminating "evidence" which she claims very publicly are damning for the accused.  Although she is working overtime in her efforts to implicate the university, she still seemingly has not found the time to drop by the local police dept to file charges and give them copies of the "evidence".  If she has damning evidence, the accused could be sitting in a jail cell TOMORROW..... if only she would simply press charges.  And yet... for some strange reason.... she doesn't.

Basically, she's a moron too.


Yeah, I think she's a moron for trying too hard not to ruin this guy.  She should and could have made better decisions.

/should double the length of this thread now... :-)

But the larger issue is UNC's long-standing, widespread perfidy.  That school should be punished so severely that Penn State will count itself lucky.
 
2013-02-26 04:19:07 AM

liquidsiphon: BarkingUnicorn: liquidsiphon: BarkingUnicorn: liquidsiphon: Empathy isn't exactly a shining quality I've found in people.

Unless they're on the same team, in the same frat, or worship at the same church, or post on the same Fark.  In other words, I'm likely to empathize with you if the alternative is to lose something that's connected to me, like my university's reputation.

If a student is sent up for rape, that reputation will suffer; it's inevitable.  I have empathy for the accused.  But if I have a well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up, then they don't get my empathy; at least, they get less of it than the accused.

Point take, although I don't think empathy means understanding one's point of view. I always thought it meant considering all points of view. A well-developed method of getting rape victims to shut up would involve a lack of empathy as I understand it.

Unless they are in the same frat or... on son-of-a-biatch.

Empathy means the ability to put yourself in another's place; to perceive and respond to things from another's perspective.  You get to choose whose.  Naturally, it's easier if you're already partly in the other's place, in the same boat.

I guess I might have empathy for the victim, after all.

"Honey, I feel your pain.  This could ruin both our reputations.  But I have a well-developed method for avoiding that.  You trust me, don't you?"

I just said empathy doesn't mean understanding one's point of view. Dammit that sucks.


Unicorns never lie, but we are capable of obfuscation. :-)
 
2013-02-26 04:19:54 AM

Dion Fortune: Hey farkers,

In this thread you said "rape" 1112 times. 1113...

Carry on.


How many times did we say "STFU?"
 
2013-02-26 04:21:15 AM

doglover: I didn't women would be more careful, I said they wouldn't be alone. They'd get escorts as required, and I don't mean lithe Filipino dancing men with abs you could grate assorted cheeses on whose company, while friendly, comes at set rates. I mean friends escorting them home.


Which would help prevent her being attacked and raped unexpectedly by someone she didn't know. It would do precisely nothing to protect her from acquaintance rape if she happened to misjudge the character of one of the men enlisted to protect her. The vast majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows, and often, by someone the victim trusts. I don't get why that's so hard to understand.

If the friend in question, maybe a guy she met in a class who she's friendly with, walks her home, and she invites him in for coffee and he ends up raping her? Unless he beats the hell out of her, a lot of people are going to assume that it was consensual sex gone wrong, and shrug it off. A fair few of those are going to assume she's a liar with an agenda. Even if she is beaten up, there will be people who don't believe it happened.

doglover: What I've never seen is a reasonable allegation of rape ignored. If someone was accused of using drugs or violence to coerce sex from someone, there would be a reckoning. I've never seen anything as abysmal as that kid who was crackin' jokes about the girl who just got raped in real life. That kind of shiat is so rare, it makes the news and so offensive and wrong even the people in the video are disgusted by the kid.


And no, actually, some instances of it make the news. When that person gets caught on camera and the right people see it. Honestly, rape humor about victims is a bit like racist jokes- most people recognize they can't make those remarks in public, but they'll absolutely make them in an environment they feel is sympathetic.

The other key phrase there is "reasonable allegation of rape". You're setting yourself up as the arbiter there of what is and what isn't a reasonable allegation. The scenario I described earlier in the thread- the one that's more indicative of most university sexual violence- would you consider that a reasonable allegation of rape?

Would you think that guy's friends would? Or would they assume she had to be a lying slut, because no way their friend would do something as horrible as commit rape?
 
2013-02-26 04:28:05 AM

Legios: To quote Yale's take on it:
"Sexual activity requires consent, which is defined as clear, unambiguous, and voluntary agreement between the participants to engage in specific sexual activity. Consent cannot be inferred from the absence of a "no"; a clear "yes," verbal or otherwise, is necessary. "


What does Yale say about a woman's most common answer to any request:  "maybe?"

Or, "IDK, convince me."

No words kill my boner faster than those, so I'm only asking out of curiosity.
 
2013-02-26 04:29:02 AM

doglover: What I've never seen is a reasonable allegation of rape ignored.


What do you consider reasonable? Are you saying date rape isn't rape?!

doglover: If someone was accused of using drugs or violence to coerce sex from someone, there would be a reckoning. I've never seen anything as abysmal as that kid who was crackin' jokes about the girl who just got raped in real life. That kind of shiat is so rare, it makes the news and so offensive and wrong even the people in the video are disgusted by the kid.


Date rape is incredibly common, and is often the result of the guy plying the girl with alcohol. In case you haven't been paying attention, it reason it seems so rare is BECAUSE IT IS UNDERREPORTED!

doglover: Yeah, I've see just the opposite. When there's a rape in the community, suddenly no girls are walking alone and there's a lot more tension in the air. The shadows are lit up a little brighter and there's a few more guys just kind of wandering campus with things in the pockets we'll not ask about but probably shouldn't be on campus.

That's been my experience.


We had a service for that on my campus.

ciberido: After all, he touched your stuff. He was asking for it.


No, but if he touched your junk, then maybe I could understand.
 
2013-02-26 04:36:48 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Legios: To quote Yale's take on it:
"Sexual activity requires consent, which is defined as clear, unambiguous, and voluntary agreement between the participants to engage in specific sexual activity. Consent cannot be inferred from the absence of a "no"; a clear "yes," verbal or otherwise, is necessary. "

What does Yale say about a woman's most common answer to any request:  "maybe?"

Or, "IDK, convince me."

No words kill my boner faster than those, so I'm only asking out of curiosity.


That doesn't seem to fit in to a clear "yes"...
But yeah, mega boner-killers
 
2013-02-26 04:49:58 AM

Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape


We don't? Is rape legal for men in your country? Because it's not in mine, which is one of the ways a society communicates about what is and is not acceptable. We do a lot more to tell men not to rape than we do to tell men not to commit arson, or than we do to tell women not to hit their children. How much time did you spend in school learning not to murder -- I'm guessing it was right around 0 hours. How much time did you spend talking about what constitutes rape/consent/etc. -- I'm guessing at least a couple of hours.

I'm not saying we couldn't or shouldn't do more; I think we should do a lot more. But the idea that we do nothing to deter rape is demonstrably false, and stating it like a fact is counterproductive to your otherwise valid point.

/ Also note that about 10% of rape victims are male, so you might want to stop defining rape victims as "women"
// Conversely, identifying "men" as rape perpetrators is fairly accurate -- something like 99% of all non-statutory rapists are male (though there has been almost no study of female->female rape, and somewhat limited study of male->male and female->male rape, so future statistics may change)
 
2013-02-26 04:59:51 AM

profplump: We don't? Is rape legal for men in your country? Because it's not in mine, which is one of the ways a society communicates about what is and is not acceptable.


As has been explained multiple times, while rape is illegal, there are a TON of mixed messages sent about what is and isn't rape, and there are a bunch of people that have no problem treating victims like their actions are to blame when they get raped, and insinuating that their rape is somehow less of a rape because they were drunk, or because they'd had consensual sex with the person another time, or because the guy was totally nice and she was probably just trying to justify cheating on her boyfriend.

Yea, rape is illegal. But there's a whole lot of societal complicity in painting a very inaccurate picture of what rape is. A lot of men grow up believing that rapists are that shadowy figure that jumps out of the bushes- an obviously criminal person.

They have a much harder time thinking of their friend who is a total player and constantly gets women as a rapist. I mean, he just gets lucky and scores with hot drunk sluts, and if he gets accused of rape, it's clearly because she changed her mind after consensual sex. Or that their friend, the meek nerdy guy who is a total gentleman could be a rapist.

BSABSVR's story on this was dead accurate and worth reposting, because it's a pretty standard story:

True story: My senior year of high school, a buddy of mine who was meek and had the utmost credibility was accused of rape by a female friend of his.  We were all up in arms about it.  She had a boyfriend who was in boot camp, and he told us (and we all figured he was right) that they had gotten drunk and boned and she was looking to justify it.  Our friend was a total gentleman, and not a farking rapist.

Then a couple of years later, a female friend of both of ours woke up after a night of partying to see him sitting on her bed fingering her.  But she made the excuse that maybe she led him on, and she was drunk enough that maybe she even told him he could, and he stopped and he's a nice guy so everyone drop it.

Then a couple years later, another female friend awoke to him trying to take her pants off.  Luckily, she was sober and knew that she hadn't been hitting on him, because she had just told him the day before that she had a boyfriend and he needed to stop asking her out on a date.

I'm now 100% convinced that me and my friends were wrong about what happened that day in high school.  But yeah, at the time he sure seemed credible.
 
2013-02-26 05:05:49 AM

Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.


Pretty graphic.  I fail to see what the hell it has to do with this girl and her being threatened because she blew the whistle on a liberal institution.

Do you just set up some sort of alert for when the word "rape" shows up in a headline and then respond by bashing republicans?
 
2013-02-26 05:14:55 AM
Genevieve Marie, you kicked ass most magnificently in this thread, and for that I thank and Farky you to the utmost degree.
 
2013-02-26 05:17:06 AM

I sound fat: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

Pretty graphic.  I fail to see what the hell it has to do with this girl and her being threatened because she blew the whistle on a liberal institution.

Do you just set up some sort of alert for when the word "rape" shows up in a headline and then respond by bashing republicans?


They don't exactly have a great track record on the subject.
 
2013-02-26 05:17:42 AM

Somacandra: born_yesterday: Intro to Physics...the first day for the class that semester. The professor...gives his spiel...asks if there are any questions. A girl a few rows ahead of me raises her hand. The professor nods, and the girl stands up. In a shaky but determined voice she says, "Sir, I don't have a question. But the person sitting there is [fake name here], and he raped me." She stood there pointing at the guy.

[i.imgur.com image 603x315]

Seriously, I'm the professor in that nightmare. Now I'm going to be afraid of dealing with that in my classes.


Just say, "That's a serious accusation and we need to go to the proper authorities immediately.  Class dismissed."  And then take her to the police while telling her that you believe her, and that after the police report you will take her to whatever University Counseling services are available, and that she can always come talk to you.  In the meantime, you have to treat the accused normally and, if questioned about it, explain that the justice system requires you to do that because it frowns on vigilantism.
 
2013-02-26 05:18:21 AM

steerforth: Genevieve Marie, you kicked ass most magnificently in this thread, and for that I thank and Farky you to the utmost degree.


Aw, thanks. That makes the late night caused by internet rage totally worth it.
 
2013-02-26 05:27:14 AM
(This comment has been removed)
 
2013-02-26 05:29:36 AM

Genevieve Marie: profplump: We don't? Is rape legal for men in your country? Because it's not in mine, which is one of the ways a society communicates about what is and is not acceptable.

As has been explained multiple times, while rape is illegal, there are a TON of mixed messages sent about what is and isn't rape, and there are a bunch of people that have no problem treating victims like their actions are to blame when they get raped, and insinuating that their rape is somehow less of a rape because they were drunk, or because they'd had consensual sex with the person another time, or because the guy was totally nice and she was probably just trying to justify cheating on her boyfriend.

Yea, rape is illegal. But there's a whole lot of societal complicity in painting a very inaccurate picture of what rape is. A lot of men grow up believing that rapists are that shadowy figure that jumps out of the bushes- an obviously criminal person.

They have a much harder time thinking of their friend who is a total player and constantly gets women as a rapist. I mean, he just gets lucky and scores with hot drunk sluts, and if he gets accused of rape, it's clearly because she changed her mind after consensual sex. Or that their friend, the meek nerdy guy who is a total gentleman could be a rapist.

BSABSVR's story on this was dead accurate and worth reposting, because it's a pretty standard story:

True story: My senior year of high school, a buddy of mine who was meek and had the utmost credibility was accused of rape by a female friend of his.  We were all up in arms about it.  She had a boyfriend who was in boot camp, and he told us (and we all figured he was right) that they had gotten drunk and boned and she was looking to justify it.  Our friend was a total gentleman, and not a farking rapist.

Then a couple of years later, a female friend of both of ours woke up after a night of partying to see him sitting on her bed fingering her.  But she made the excuse that maybe she led him on, an ...




This.

People like me who haven't had the misfortune of having someone I love come to me to tell me they've been raped can't imagine how often the victims get blamed, and it was shocking to find out. I was introduced to the below by a friend who was a raped (before I met them):

Rape victims make posters of what was said to them, both by attackers and by people around them, like, "Why did you take him up to your room?" when telling a friend their best friend, who was male, raped them.

It's not an easy thing to read.
 
2013-02-26 05:30:36 AM

vygramul: Genevieve Marie: profplump: We don't? Is rape legal for men in your country? Because it's not in mine, which is one of the ways a society communicates about what is and is not acceptable.

As has been explained multiple times, while rape is illegal, there are a TON of mixed messages sent about what is and isn't rape, and there are a bunch of people that have no problem treating victims like their actions are to blame when they get raped, and insinuating that their rape is somehow less of a rape because they were drunk, or because they'd had consensual sex with the person another time, or because the guy was totally nice and she was probably just trying to justify cheating on her boyfriend.

Yea, rape is illegal. But there's a whole lot of societal complicity in painting a very inaccurate picture of what rape is. A lot of men grow up believing that rapists are that shadowy figure that jumps out of the bushes- an obviously criminal person.

They have a much harder time thinking of their friend who is a total player and constantly gets women as a rapist. I mean, he just gets lucky and scores with hot drunk sluts, and if he gets accused of rape, it's clearly because she changed her mind after consensual sex. Or that their friend, the meek nerdy guy who is a total gentleman could be a rapist.

BSABSVR's story on this was dead accurate and worth reposting, because it's a pretty standard story:

True story: My senior year of high school, a buddy of mine who was meek and had the utmost credibility was accused of rape by a female friend of his.  We were all up in arms about it.  She had a boyfriend who was in boot camp, and he told us (and we all figured he was right) that they had gotten drunk and boned and she was looking to justify it.  Our friend was a total gentleman, and not a farking rapist.

Then a couple of years later, a female friend of both of ours woke up after a night of partying to see him sitting on her bed fingering her.  But she made the excuse that maybe s ...


Oh god, yea, that project is incredible and also devastating to read.
 
2013-02-26 05:32:57 AM

Weaver95: Thunderpipes:
Misogyny? Really? Make you feel smart, Cupcake?

I'll bet you lick the screen when you play Civilization V.


C'mon.  There's no reason to denigrate Civ V.  Or, there are plenty of reasons to do so, but they have little to do with putting this loudmouth in his place.
 
2013-02-26 05:39:15 AM

Abacus9: robohobo: [25.media.tumblr.com image 850x478]

0/10


Thing is, this is based on a bit of a fallacy in thinking. We hold drunk people accountable all the time. If a drunk driver crashes into another drunk driver and kills them, the surviving driver is still charged with manslaughter even though both of them were drunk.
 
2013-02-26 05:57:26 AM

vygramul: Abacus9: robohobo: [25.media.tumblr.com image 850x478]

0/10

Thing is, this is based on a bit of a fallacy in thinking. We hold drunk people accountable all the time. If a drunk driver crashes into another drunk driver and kills them, the surviving driver is still charged with manslaughter even though both of them were drunk.


Drinking and driving is a criminal offence because of the ability to kill someone else because of your lack of awareness (and driving is a privilege). Being just drunk not so much.
 
2013-02-26 06:03:03 AM

Legios: vygramul: Abacus9: robohobo: [25.media.tumblr.com image 850x478]

0/10

Thing is, this is based on a bit of a fallacy in thinking. We hold drunk people accountable all the time. If a drunk driver crashes into another drunk driver and kills them, the surviving driver is still charged with manslaughter even though both of them were drunk.

Drinking and driving is a criminal offence because of the ability to kill someone else because of your lack of awareness (and driving is a privilege). Being just drunk not so much.


Nor is anyone at fault for the fact that someone chose to rape them when they were drunk. The rapist is the person who made an active choice to take advantage of someone. Being drunk while woman is not a crime that deserves punishment by rape. That should be totally obvious and I should never have to point that out to anyone ever.
 
2013-02-26 06:03:09 AM

vygramul: Thing is, this is based on a bit of a fallacy in thinking. We hold drunk people accountable all the time. If a drunk driver crashes into another drunk driver and kills them, the surviving driver is still charged with manslaughter even though both of them were drunk.


True, but this is not even remotely the same thing. In fact, the errors in judgment mad buy a drunk driver are exactly why a rape victim is not held accountable for being raped while drunk. Their judgment is impaired, thus they cannot consent (especially if they're passed out - I know people this happened to). The fallacy you mention is just the easy way out for some, as they would prefer to blame the victim.
 
2013-02-26 06:03:21 AM
This is one of the most depressing threads I've read on Fark.
 
2013-02-26 06:04:32 AM

GranoblasticMan: This is one of the most depressing threads I've read on Fark.


This isn't actually abnormal for a thread about a rape case that appears on the main page. Fark's actually not even the worst place on the internet to have a thread like this.
 
2013-02-26 06:08:02 AM
You know, all I can think of is the other thread where men were trying to convince women that `that guy friend` actually really wants to hit you like the fist of an angry god and the women were all like "Nah, he`s my friend, he wouldn`t do that"

Then those women went out for a friendly drink with that guy and ended up in this thread...
 
2013-02-26 06:09:28 AM

dready zim: You know, all I can think of is the other thread where men were trying to convince women that `that guy friend` actually really wants to hit you like the fist of an angry god and the women were all like "Nah, he`s my friend, he wouldn`t do that"

Then those women went out for a friendly drink with that guy and ended up in this thread...


Sigh. The whole "Oh ladies, any time you're friends with a guy, it can't be because he likes you and values you as a human, it is clearly all just a ruse to get to your vagina" trope is pretty obnoxious too.
 
2013-02-26 06:15:45 AM

Genevieve Marie: Legios: vygramul: Abacus9: robohobo: [25.media.tumblr.com image 850x478]

0/10

Thing is, this is based on a bit of a fallacy in thinking. We hold drunk people accountable all the time. If a drunk driver crashes into another drunk driver and kills them, the surviving driver is still charged with manslaughter even though both of them were drunk.

Drinking and driving is a criminal offence because of the ability to kill someone else because of your lack of awareness (and driving is a privilege). Being just drunk not so much.

Nor is anyone at fault for the fact that someone chose to rape them when they were drunk. The rapist is the person who made an active choice to take advantage of someone. Being drunk while woman is not a crime that deserves punishment by rape. That should be totally obvious and I should never have to point that out to anyone ever.


I completely agree. I was purely pointing out that one is a criminal offence because of the affect it has on someone else's life. Not that the fact that they were drunk that they "deserved" it. They're all cognitive choices, one way or another. But being intoxicated doesn't give someone else the right to impose their will upon you.
 
2013-02-26 06:16:34 AM

Legios: I completely agree. I was purely pointing out that one is a criminal offence because of the affect it has on someone else's life. Not that the fact that they were drunk that they "deserved" it. They're all cognitive choices, one way or another. But being intoxicated doesn't give someone else the right to impose their will upon you.


Oh I know you were, I was just elaborating on your point. You covered the first part nicely.
 
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