Weaver95: Thunderpipes:
How am I in any way wrong? Seriously. I am not. I am just not a panty waste crybaby head like most people. Dude hits you, leave. Story over. Sooner we stop allowing people to act like children and refuse to take responsibility for their actions, better we will be. Funny how society doesn't attack chicks that whip their husbands, huh?

Grow a pair, Cupcake.

like I said...it's like you suffer from a mental disease or something.

It is called intelligence, something this board suffers a lack of.

I think your wife called, she wants her sammich, now!

Genevieve Marie: skullkrusher: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I was a child in the 80s and the 90s and we were told once or twice to respect a woman's wishes and that was enough because we weren't a bunch of knuckledragging farking savages

Actually, there are almost no school programs that teach consent. That's actually one of the bigger problems with abstinence education- it reinforces rape culture. The idea that you should always say no is totally at odds with human nature, and not only does it present some problems as far as teaching birth control and reproductive health, it also presents some problems as far as sexual consent goes.

If you tell people they're not ever allowed to say yes, and when that's particularly focused on women, a very screwy sexual dynamic emerges.

My high school must have been very progressive then in the mid to late 90s

We were taught consent is a must have, but then again, we weren't taught abstinence only in high school.  The focus was on "We know you're going to have sex at some point, here is how to protect yourself".  The condom wrapped banana was a fixture, a right of passage even.

I remember we even had an STD laden game of telephone.

In college I learned of the term "mutually incapacitated sexual intercourse" in an English course that ended up focusing on writing up pamphlets that described the school's sexual harassment and sexual assault code.

Sad that I seem to know at least 2 women that dated the same guy, one was date raped, the other managed to leave without having sex with him (she was a foot taller and a volleyball player, he was a CS nerd), and he had the gall to spread rumors about the second one.  He's really lucky he survived given the situation was one where you had 50+ guys ready to beat his ass for lying and attempted rape.

Sadder still that she was an RA, and never reported it.  He ended up married to the meekest woman I've ever known, and I still worry about her.

Oh, and he was one of the most hypocritically "pious" assholes I've had the displeasure of knowing, hiding his predatory nature behind the doors the confessional.

//I have no idea why I typed that all out, probably because I've known too many women that were raped or nearly raped that never reported it out of fear of retaliation.

HoratioGates: IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the  cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

That's not how campus law works.  There is a 'legal' system in place and most campus issues are resolved there.  It's like binding arbitration, only with more rape.

Is this actually the case?  Sure, they have their "Honor Court", but I'm pretty sure they can't actually deny anyone who has the good sense to blow off some shiatheels looking for resume fluff and bring in the professionals.

Weaver95: here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad. terrible, in fact. horrific. they pretended nothing was wrong. assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM. not to a court. not to the cops. she had to prove rape...to the school. on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done. And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

of course they expected her to prove rape to them. How else would it work? Expel the guy on an accusation?

Thunderpipes: Genevieve Marie: Thunderpipes: When the Duke Lacrosse team is let out of prison?

The Duke Lacrosse team was exonerated, very publicly, and was not sent to prison.

It was also one case. Does it not strike you as odd that it's the only false accuser story people ever bring up?

It was a joke......

I do find it odd all these magical rapists are running around, not even getting kicked out of college, let alone charged with a crime, and they are all guilty. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Now, given how extremely liberal all colleges are as well, and a woman on the board no less telling the chick she is a douche, I side with the college. Months of this evil abusive boyfriend, and then she goes to the college to get the guy in trouble? She was right. First time a guy abuses you, leave. Christ, not like she was married with kids and dependent either. And she was depressed and had suicide attempts? Crazy chick.

The other girl with head wound, go to the police, let them handle it.

Thank you for putting your lack of understanding of human beings on display. It makes the ignore process much easier to use.

Repo Man: For some fresh outrage, I read this the other day, and spent some time trying to wrap my mind around it.

During an interview in her office, she offered a chilling example of a local woman who "got drunk at a party and passed out.

"She was raped by a couple of guys while her boyfriend filmed it," she said. "When she came to the next day, her boyfriend showed her the film of her having sex with these men and told her, 'I'm posting this on your Facebook page unless you let me pimp you out.' That's trafficking. That's coercion."

Dealing in flesh

this is why we (non-criminals) should be allowed to own guns.
if that was my sister, they would be dead already.

/itg

BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.

What I have gathered from that much better article (along with the original) is this: UNC has what is probably an average number of rape/sexual assault cases, but unlike anyone with good sense would do, when someone has a rape complaint the university directs them to the honor court instead of the police. The honor court is filled with a bunch of barely trained "judges" who are happen to be undergraduate students. They decide guilt and innocence, and sometimes manage to break laws like confidentiality laws along the way without any repercussions whatsoever. Basically, UNC has created a completely separate legal system staffed cheaply by college students which costs less and makes them look better in crime stats.

Yeah, there'd better be a freakin' investigation.

Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

That's what we've told them is a viable excuse. Well, not the six year olds, but replace it with a 20 year old victim? Totally. There's even an exception in the Federal Rules of Evidence for past sexual behavior with the victim.
I'd be cautious of using pedophiles as reasonable examples of all rapists in your research.

Kazan: White Southern Men like Rape. More at 11

1/11
(Too obvious.)
/The 1 is because I imagined your "newscaster" was Ron Burgundy.

HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.

Weaver95: skullkrusher: Weaver95: here, pay attention because this is the important part - it's not the rape plague that is the problem (although that's pretty bad in and of itself), the problem is that the schools policy for handling rape victims is really, horribly bad. terrible, in fact. horrific. they pretended nothing was wrong. assumed the victim was lying, expected her to prove rape TO THEM. not to a court. not to the cops. she had to prove rape...to the school. on her own, with no lawyer or process in place to assure her anything would be done. And she - and other women who went through the same thing - thought the school could do things better.

of course they expected her to prove rape to them. How else would it work? Expel the guy on an accusation?

woman: 'I was raped. I reported it, the cops are investigating and i'm in therapy.  can ya cut me some slack?  at least 'till the stitches heal?'

university proper response: 'sure, how about we talk to your professors and see what you and your therapist can come up with to get you back on track.'
university actual response: 'meh, not our problem. man up and walk it off cookie.  oh, and stop dressing slutty. now pay yer tuition and STFU ok?  thanks!'

see the difference?  one is a human response, the other is corporate.

seems like you're taking a fair bit of poetic license here but your complaint was that they expected her to prove rape TO THEM. Yeah, she brought a charge of rape to this "honor court". Of course she has to prove her accusation. She'd have to do that in a real court through the prosecution too. It wouldn't surprise me if UNC had a policy of hushing up rape, it's bad for enrollment after all, but it seems like she made her case, they didn't buy it and now want her to stop discussing the attack as it impugns a guy that they found innocent.
Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?

It's sad that the problem of sexual assault on college campuses is not a problem that seems to be going away anytime soon.

Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.

Fluorescent Testicle: BSABSVR: Have you never seen a rape thread before?  Or one of the endless "Autobiography of Doglover X" threads?  Cause you clearly are not new here.

I'm assuming sarcasm on his part. Seriously, Fark has so many rape defenders I'm surprised it's not on some kind of watch list.

What's interesting is how much of it isn't even the mealy-mouthed "If this guy is found guilty then he is probably a rapist, but until then I am looking at all parties suspiciously and c'mon ladies I don't walk around flashing a big wad of cash" defense.  Fark goes straight for the whole "women are all liars until proven otherwise also what is 'rape' nowadays anyhow? " defense.

mesmer242: BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.

What I have gathered from that much better article (along with the original) is this: UNC has what is probably an average number of rape/sexual assault cases, but unlike anyone with good sense would do, when someone has a rape complaint the university directs them to the honor court instead of the police. The honor court is filled with a bunch of barely trained "judges" who are happen to be undergraduate students. They decide guilt and innocence, and sometimes manage to break laws like confidentiality laws along the way without any repercussions whatsoever. Basically, UNC has created a completely separate legal system staffed cheaply by college students which costs less and makes them look better in crime stats.

Yeah, there'd better be a freakin' investigation.

And this all thanks to the really, really stupid idea that electing college students to the "student senate" or to the "student judiciary" is a good idea and actually giving it power.  They're voted in by popularity contests, virtually all of them have no idea what they're doing, but the universities seem to give then vast leeway in what they are allowed to deal with because they were pressured into doing so by students who constantly cry about not having voices in school function.

Student government bonus: You get to have flat screen TVs in the dorms and pretend you're doing something about the cost of college text books.
Student government problem: Students who have no idea what they're doing get to screw up rather important things, like crime reporting and following proper policy.

The administration will pretend it isn't involved until something like this happens, in which case student government gets handled like the sham that it is... for a few years, until students whine enough about "not having enough power/say/influence" again...

ModernLuddite: //I also went to university.
///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

How about, "putting words in other people's mouths and strawmanning things they've never said is pretty sick"?

Can we "agree to disagree" about that as well?

Meanwhile, what's the appropriate Fark color for "lies about everything"?

Thunderpipes: All colleges are liberal, period, even in Texas

[it's time to stop posting dot jpeg]

this sort of behavior, like those high school kids laughing and joking about some drunk girl getting raped....

is just proof of the decline of the country.
sad...clinton's fault
he made it acceptable to be a farking asshole (as long as you get away with it).

Gambill's previous experience with the Honor Court was detailed in the OCR complaint. It's the venue in which Gambill attempted to resolve the sexual assault and stalking she claims she suffered at the hands of her ex-boyfriend.


Why is she letting a student court even be involved?  Shouldn't a REAL court be handling her rape case?

EvilRacistNaziFascist: What you must always keep in mind is that the actual innocence and/or guilt of any given individual in the United States accused of a crime is of trivial importance in comparison to the degree to which their story reinforces the Narrative and its concomitant hierarchy of oppression. White fratboys accused of rape against white women are automatically guilty, because the fratboys outrank the women in the hierarchy of victimhood; but a black man accused of rape against a white woman is probably the object of a racist witchhunt. As Lenin would say, it's all a matter of "who-whom", i.e. who is doing what to whom. There is no objective standard of justice.

Yes, you poor, poor, white males, you're so downtrodden by the evil Liberal Oppressors.

The 4chan Psychiatrist: Popular Opinion: Philbb: Theaetetus: You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing.

I disagree. From what I have learned from researching and listening to rapists, the majority of them do not believe that anything they did was wrong. It was the victims fault. Including a few comments from child rapists along the lines of, "Okay, so she's six years old, but she seduced me. If she hadn't come on to me like that I wouldn't have done anything."

probably too stupid to not be trolling

Eh, I've been present at a few court evals for alleged child rapists.  One guy basically said the same thing.  Granted, we ordered testing because he seemed to be severely mentally impaired, but that kind of incredibly naive and utterly ridiculous thinking is not outside the realm of possibility as I have seen it before.

On the flip side, I have seen many, many patients falsely accuse people of raping them, sometimes due to psychotic, delusional thinking, and other times as attention-seeking behavior consistent with their psychopathology.  I have also seen patients who were legitimately raped, and it breaks your heart to see the damage that it can do to some people.

these personality types are not exactly beacons of truth.
also, research aside, the "typical college rapist" is a student who probably gets away with it 90% of the time, due to the intoxicated state of their victims, so i doubt you have actually been "interviewing" or studying the types of predators we are talking about (in this case).

BarkingUnicorn: ks1415: /current UNC student
//you would not believe the reaction this got today

Oh, DO tell us, please!  Burning dumpsters everywhere, I hope.

The proportion of dumpsters to students isn't high enough for that to be a catharsis, sadly. Plus, big angry events get planned well around here; when our chancellor submitted his resignation, for example, we waited three or four days to get together a, like, thousand-student-deep protest asking him to revoke it. Today's been all about outrage on the Internet, but what struck me is the pure damned scope of it; thousands of students, along with people who have nothing to do with UNC, were spreading the news all day, with hundreds getting the word out before a news article was ever published. (There was a screenshot of Gambill's announcement circulating before anyone reported on it.) Everything in this article (about Gambill being brought up on honor code violations) broke in the past 18 hours, basically; that's how fast the word got out.

The school's anti-gender-based-violence group has a meeting in response to this planned for tomorrow; it should be all kinds of fun.

telaran: mesmer242: BarkingUnicorn: The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

Includes pic of Landen, and yes, she is.

"In the last four years, the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights has received more than 120 complaints relating to sexual violence and launched 11 investigations."

This had better be the next one, dammit.

What I have gathered from that much better article (along with the original) is this: UNC has what is probably an average number of rape/sexual assault cases, but unlike anyone with good sense would do, when someone has a rape complaint the university directs them to the honor court instead of the police. The honor court is filled with a bunch of barely trained "judges" who are happen to be undergraduate students. They decide guilt and innocence, and sometimes manage to break laws like confidentiality laws along the way without any repercussions whatsoever. Basically, UNC has created a completely separate legal system staffed cheaply by college students which costs less and makes them look better in crime stats.

Yeah, there'd better be a freakin' investigation.

And this all thanks to the really, really stupid idea that electing college students to the "student senate" or to the "student judiciary" is a good idea and actually giving it power.  They're voted in by popularity contests, virtually all of them have no idea what they're doing, but the universities seem to give then vast leeway in what they are allowed to deal with because they were pressured into doing so by students who constantly cry about not having voices in school function.

Student government bonus: You get to have flat screen TVs in the dorms and pretend you're doing something about the cost of college text books.
Student government problem: Students who have no idea what they're doing get to screw up rather important things, like crime reporting and following proper policy.

The administration will pretend it isn't involved until something like this ...

I was in student government in college and we had power over a small fee that was collected and funded various clubs. That's about it. Oh, the student body president would have meetings with deans and such, but there really wasn't any power over anything but the entertainment/student life. The stupidity of having undergrads in charge of a miniature legal system, especially one that covers felonies, is astounding.

meat0918: I remember we even had an STD laden game of telephone.

I thought that in telephone you sit in a circle and whisper something to the person next to you, but your version sounds way more....wet.

Weaver95: skullkrusher:
seems like you're taking a fair bit of poetic license here but your complaint was that they expected her to prove rape TO THEM. Yeah, she brought a charge of rape to this "honor court". Of course she has to prove her accusation. She'd have to do that in a real court through the prosecution too. It wouldn't surprise me if UNC had a policy of hushing up rape, it's bad for enrollment after all, but it seems like she made her case, they didn't buy it and now want her to stop discussing the attack as it impugns a guy that they found innocent.
Sure, she might not be mentioning the guy's name in public but do you really think his identity is a secret?

*sigh*

no.  let's try this again - she didn't like the options that the university gave her.  she told the university that their options sucked donkey balls and she wanted to know what OTHER options she had.  the university told her to suck it up and deal with it, this was all she got.  she didn't like that, thought the university rules needed to be changed...and took steps to change them.

that's what this is about.

*sigh*

She availed herself of the "honor court" option. They did not find the guy guilty. She and others have filed a complaint that UNC does not do enough to help victim and are not compliant with the law. She has spoken publicly about her attack (which did not happen in the eyes of the "honor court") and they tell her she might be in violation of school policy. What the fark are you talking about?

Conservatives around the world think much the same way.

A recorded footage of Abu Islam saying that 90 percent of female protesters who head to Tahrir Square are Christian, referring to them as "crusaders", had circulated the internet. In the video, Abu Islam also says that these females go to demonstrations half naked with the purpose of getting raped.

Egypt court releases "women go Tahrir to get raped" preacher detained for blasphemy

It's strange that people like Thunderpipes hate Muslims so much, as they have so much in common.

Why are sex attacks on the rise in Tahrir Square?
The young men we spoke to admitted they went to the square to look at women, and though they did not admit to being involved in serious assaults, their manner suggested they saw no problem in harassing women.
They even found the issue of rape something of a joke. Shorouk al Attar Shorouk al Attar suspects more sinister forces are behind the attacks

"If women don't want it, they shouldn't wear tight clothes and they shouldn't come here," one laughed.

ModernLuddite: Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way  the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused  rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.


Replace "rape" with "theft" or "murder".

Any discussion of lesser crimes (seriously - rape is the worst of the worst) that automatically grants the benefit of the doubt to the accuser would be dismissed out of hand because, seriously, accusing someone of stealing something isn't really enough.


//I also went to university.
///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.
////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.
//Agree to disagree.

Apples to oranges comparison. Rape cases are inherently fuzzy, and the physical evidence is completely biological and degrades in, at the most, 1 month's time.  Most victims are afraid or ashamed, because they were sexually violated. Less than 1% of all self-reported cases of rape are false accusations, so I think you're buying into the bullshiat right wing talking point and defending a pretty indefensible and misogynistic position.

Innocent until proven guilty applies to men, too. Even if you think it shouldn't. No conviction? Going around calling them a rapist with the intent of ruining their lives is a crime.

Big Dave: HotWingAgenda: Big Dave: but we do not tell our men not to rape.

What redneck backwater did you grow up in?  I was a child in the politically correct 90's, and the schools were mandated to give seminars at least twice a year from elementary school onward about how if we boys ever even looked at a girl funny, that was rape, and our lives would be over.  F*ck, I was afraid to even ask any girls out until I got to college, for fear of being labeled some sort of sexual predator.

/college sweetheart was stalked and abused by the guy she ditched me for
//she went straight to the cops and didn't tell the school, other than to advise them of the restraining order

I grew up in liberal parts of California and Oregon, but I played sports so I was able to mix with other young men outside student government and model united nations, and I knew way back in junior high that boys will do whatever they can get away with.
I could tell you story after story of how men rape women, abuse them, and yet since they go to school together or work together, the situation is hushed up or covered up.  The women know their lives and relationships will be ruined if they go public, and since the men know this too they suffer no consequences.
Man, grow up and find out what happens in the real world.

Excuse you?  Your statement was "we do not tell men not to rape."  I pointed out that, at least since the early 90's, the US culture, and in particular our public school system, has gone out of its way to hammer into young mens' minds that no means no, and often maybe means no.  You came back with stories of jocks who choose to ignore all the authority figures telling them not to touch other peoples' no-no spots.  That's like saying murder isn't against the law because you keep hearing about serial killers on the news.

Voiceofreason01: Theaetetus:
Glad to know you guys have your talking points straight. It makes it easier to identify you.

Nowhere in the article or the articles posted in the comments does it say she went to the police and nobody has been charged with a crime. I'm not going to come and white knight a rapist but there's also no real evidence that the boyfriend raped anybody. I might believe that University is covering things up but are you asserting that the local and State police are just ignoring accusations of rape?

/Interestingly I have you farkied as a troll.

me too