queezyweezel: brap: Well maybe if that baby hadn't done so much got damned COCAINE she wouldn't have a deviated septum.  Had a similar issue with brap jr. until we started bottle feeding him Nyquil.

Nyquil?  What the hell is wrong with you?  Benadryl is for babies.  B.  Baby.

Never EVER drug a baby to sleep with OTC medecines!

That's what whiskey is for.

namegoeshere: queezyweezel: brap: Well maybe if that baby hadn't done so much got damned COCAINE she wouldn't have a deviated septum.  Had a similar issue with brap jr. until we started bottle feeding him Nyquil.

Nyquil?  What the hell is wrong with you?  Benadryl is for babies.  B.  Baby.

Never EVER drug a baby to sleep with OTC medecines!

That's what whiskey is for.

I though the whiskey was for teething. Are you trying to say that gently shaking them to sleep is wrong?

The next night you can't get to sleep, think about this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_familial_insomnia

Lollipop165: The morning of my first day home (also as a Bronx newborn) my parents woke up at 8am in the morning and ran to my crib thinking I was dead. I was just sleeping. I never had a problem sleeping as a baby.

Still don't.

You still do not experience problems sleeping as a baby?

18-month old newborn?

Huh....first kid would always wake up at least once during the night until he was about 2 years....maybe slept through the night once or twice.  Our 8 month old has maybe slept through twice so far.  Didn't know this was unusual...

Sounds like she has ADHD.  They should give her Adderall so she can concentrate on sleeping more.

Lollipop165: The morning of my first day home (also as a Bronx newborn) my parents woke up at 8am in the morning and ran to my crib thinking I was dead. I was just sleeping. I never had a problem sleeping as a baby.

Still don't.

Most parents hardly get any sleep those first few nights home for fear of SIDS and making sure the baby is fed at proper intervals to regain birth weight.  Good to hear your parents didn't care about such matters and were able to sleep so soundly.

Isn't this how the plot of "The Ring" went?

If I were offered a cute woman's nipple to suck every time I woke up crying, I'd be waking up every 3 hours too.

Haley Rivera hasn't slept through the night since she was born 18 months ago.
Neither has her mom or dad.

Well that is bad parenting.  Coffee for one; tiny ear plugs for the other and switch every couple nights.

queezyweezel: brap: Well maybe if that baby hadn't done so much got damned COCAINE she wouldn't have a deviated septum.  Had a similar issue with brap jr. until we started bottle feeding him Nyquil.

Nyquil?  What the hell is wrong with you?  Benadryl is for babies.  B.  Baby.

Benadryl is sometimes VERY necessary for kids.

Veler suggested to Stella that she place many pacifiers around her daughter's crib, so that when Haley wakes up, she can more easily find the pacifier herself and learn to put herself back to sleep.

How the hell did they not figure that shiat out on their own??

Lee451: The next night you can't get to sleep, think about this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_familial_insomnia

The patient suffers increasing insomnia, resulting in panic attacks, paranoia, and phobias. This stage lasts for about four months.
Hallucinations and panic attacks become noticeable, continuing for about five months.
Complete inability to sleep is followed by rapid loss of weight. This lasts for about three months.
Dementia, during which the patient becomes unresponsive or mute over the course of six months. This is the final progression of the disease, after which death follows.

Known Causes: reading this Wikipedia page.

WTF are you doing to us!?

We used the Baby Wise system. Worked pretty well as he was sleeping through the night at 5 months. They should try that, and if that doesn't work exchange her for one that sleeps, next time they are at the hospital.

a shot of whiskey!  Thanks Mom...I am now a raging alcoholik...

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Pity them.

Blame them, for it's a behavioral problem and behavior can, and should be modified by discrete parenting. The doctor even proscribed a behavior modification for treatment.

All too often behavior problems are either caused by the parents or not fixed because of a lack of resolve on the part of the parents.

jennyz: Veler suggested to Stella that she place many pacifiers around her daughter's crib, so that when Haley wakes up, she can more easily find the pacifier herself and learn to put herself back to sleep.

How the hell did they not figure that shiat out on their own??

Yeah this works great and we figured this out by the third or fourth time the pacifier fell out of the crib in the middle of the night. Now we don't put him to bed without having at least five pacifiers scattered inside the crib.

billybobtoo: a shot of whiskey!  Thanks Mom...I am now a raging alcoholik...

Xanax. Makes me sleep like a baby. Not this baby, a generic baby.

Put clothes in dryer.  Put baby in basket.  Put warm clothes on baby in basket.  Run next load in dryer with baby laying in basket on top of dryer while you sit in chairs watching baby on dryer in basket.  Baby sleep.  Use condom or nut cutting to prevent further complications.

busy chillin': Pair-o-Dice: billybobtoo: a shot of whiskey!  Thanks Mom...I am now a raging alcoholik...

Xanax. Makes me sleep like a baby. Not this baby, a generic baby.

Pair-o-Dice: billybobtoo: a shot of whiskey!  Thanks Mom...I am now a raging alcoholik...

Xanax. Makes me sleep like a baby. Not this baby, a generic baby.

Like a baby? So you wake up every couple hours crying with sh*t in your diaper?

Maybe...

Our little man is almost 6 months and hasn't slept all night. We also have the type of monitor that detects lack of movement after 20 seconds of stillness, to help with the SIDS thing.

/yes I'm paranoid
//also CPR trained in adult and infants
///would still love some real sleep

Need Frank Gallagher the baby whisperer.

My first son as a newborn slept almost exactly three hours at a time, like a freakin' clock. It was perfectly manageable, once we aligned our own sleep schedules to match. Our second son, he slept soundly almost all night, the first night, still in the hospital. Once home, i would still wake up every two or three hours at the slightest noise or rustle, but Jacob only ever needed a feeding once or rarely twice per night. Neither of my boys ever used pacifiers more than once or twice each.

cgraves67: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Pity them.

Blame them, for it's a behavioral problem and behavior can, and should be modified by discrete parenting. The doctor even proscribed a behavior modification for treatment.

All too often behavior problems are either caused by the parents or not fixed because of a lack of resolve on the part of the parents.

All too often behavioral problems are automatically attributed with little evidence to problems with physiological causes because assuming is easier than finding the root problem. I'm not a sleep Dr, but I have my own sleep issues and am pretty well read when it comes to the medical literature and sleep.

Children with sleep breathing disorders often don't show overt results for sleep apnea. In fact, sleep apnea is a pointless distinction from sleep breathing disorders in general when it comes to the effects on sleep that can occur. Sleep apnea gets all the attention from drs because the stress it puts on the cardiovascular system can lead to death. More subtle forms of sleep breathing disorders, like upper airway resistance syndrome, can only be accurately  detected using esophageal pressure monitoring which is almost never used in a clinical setting. Measuring pulse transit times on a normal sleep study can also detect these issues, but you have to know exactly what your looking for.  It would be a god damn shame if this child and her parents have to go through needless suffering because the doctors were lazy and defaulted to victim blaming.

/I sound bitter

MrPleasant: Huh....first kid would always wake up at least once during the night until he was about 2 years....maybe slept through the night once or twice.  Our 8 month old has maybe slept through twice so far.  Didn't know this was unusual...

This kid isn't "not sleeping through the night."  This kid is "not sleeping more than three hours at a time" and "getting six hours of sleep a day total."

/A misleading headline?  On Fark?  Crazy!

StaleCoffee: Our first son did that. For the first year of his life he didn't sleep more than 45 minutes at a time. The sleep deprivation was incredibly debilitating and painful. He didn't sleep through the night for the first time until he was 6 and we were dosing him with 9mg of melatonin per a neurologist. He still has sleep issues at age 10. He would stay up until 3 am reading if we let him, and sometimes we do just because we need to go to sleep without the argument, but he *needs* to sleep sometimes so just about every night is a battle.

Our younger son, age 6, will generally just drop off like a stone then roll out of bed in the morning without an issue.

It's hard not to sneer at parents who think their kids sleep great because they did something magical and amazing in the discipline department.  Sometimes this shiat is just something that people have to suffer through for years in order to get their kids safely to adulthood as capable, self sufficient human beings.

After reading the article I don't think that their child had anything similar to what you experienced. Otherwise the doctor would have given medical advice not pacifiers are great advice. One question though. Aren't pacifiers a no-no by a year and a half? My kids didn't have them after 1.

queezyweezel : Nyquil? What the hell is wrong with you? Benadryl is for babies. B. Baby

Nyquil is for newborns. N. Newborn.

Petey4335: Haley Rivera hasn't slept through the night since she was born 18 months ago.
Neither has her mom or dad.

Well that is bad parenting.  Coffee for one; tiny ear plugs for the other and switch every couple nights.

My daughter is almost 10 months, has only once slept through the night*, and is usually up 4+ times between 8 pm and 8 am.  She usually naps for 90 minutes in the morning (around 10 am), then about 30-60 (around 3 pm).  We have tried every suggestion short of providing her alcohol and letting her just cry until she passes out (she stands in her crib and cries longer than the 20 minutes our pediatrician recommended letting her go for).

The worst part is that, 9 of 10 times, when I go in to get her (and I have been since she was born) she just continues scream and cry until my wife comes and gets her.  She used to wake up, then could be put back down in a few minutes.  Her newest trick is to fall asleep while being held, then waking up as we are putting her into the crib, taking another 15 minutes to fall asleep, then repeating the process.  At this point we are completely out of options, and our doctor's response has been, "Yup, sometimes kids just don't sleep, sucks to be you and hopefully she grows out of it."

I would be grateful to be able to wake up and trade nights with my wife, but unfortunately, our daughter does not agree.  Also, drinking more than one cup of coffee a day is a no go for her as she is breastfeeding, not that she drinks coffee, but she will drink an occasional soda.

Last time there was a thread on baby sleep, I got several helpful suggestions from other Farkers, but not one worked.  At this point, TFA makes me wonder if I should demand a referral to get her sleep tested as her pediatrician has nothing helpful to offer.

*The day she was born, she slept for 23 out of her first 24 hours, even eating while asleep.

StaleCoffee: Our first son did that. For the first year of his life he didn't sleep more than 45 minutes at a time. The sleep deprivation was incredibly debilitating and painful. He didn't sleep through the night for the first time until he was 6 and we were dosing him with 9mg of melatonin per a neurologist. He still has sleep issues at age 10. He would stay up until 3 am reading if we let him, and sometimes we do just because we need to go to sleep without the argument, but he *needs* to sleep sometimes so just about every night is a battle.

Our younger son, age 6, will generally just drop off like a stone then roll out of bed in the morning without an issue.

It's hard not to sneer at parents who think their kids sleep great because they did something magical and amazing in the discipline department.  Sometimes this shiat is just something that people have to suffer through for years in order to get their kids safely to adulthood as capable, self sufficient human beings.

That describes our kid - 6 years old, will stay up till 2 am without his magical "night pop" - 3 mg or so of melatonin.  I think he slept through the night twice before he hit the age of 5.  He also sleep walks, so he'll wake up and will be in this bizarro dream state, with crazed eyes.  You can't talk to him or try to wake him when he's in that state or else he will start crying or thrashing and it won't stop.  He can go on a 1 hr crying binge while sleepwalking and you can't do anything about it.  When he was 3 he would sleep walk and you could hear him get up and start trying to unlock the front door.

Even worse, when he was 1-3 he had some kind of wicked allergy (we think) that caused him to wake up crying . . and then vomit if you didn't get to him in time.  So there was no "letting him cry it out".

Oh, and he learned how to climb out of his crib at 12 months.

After 6 years of sleep deprivation I've gotten used to it.  I rarely sleep more than 6 hours a night and I'm 100% used to leaping out of bed from deep, deep sleep for some kind of crazy sleep related emergency.

But most of the crazy stuff is past us . . except the sleepwalking thing and the need for melatonin.  We also have figured out certain routines that we can do to help him.

If there's one thing we've learned as parents its that some kids are different.  Oh, and parents who have lucked out with kids that have no sleep or behavior problems are smug a22holes.  It's always a kick when someone who has been telling you for years how their kid is perfect because of superior parenting skills goes and has a second or third kid who happens to have similar issues to ours. Their world is turned upside down and they quickly realized that they were just lucky the first time.

Neither of my kids slept longer than 2 or 3 hours for the first 14 months of their lives. It was horrible, but no one wrote an article about it. Shrug.

That toddler looks haunted. Most likely an evil spirit tormenting her every night. No worries.

I slept through the night from day one. My poor mom woke up the first morning home panicked that I was dead of SIDS.

Undfortunately, I was not so blessed with my own kids.

Is getting a kick out of this thread.....


....not so much.

Really feel for these people.  One of ours arrived with a history of sleep issues, related to past trauma.  We spent the better part of the first year, sleeping in alternating short shifts, just so one of us would be semi-coherent.

Off topic from the article (but in line with the current conversation), the whole concept of "sleeping through the night" is utter bullshiat. You just don't know what flavor you are going to get when the kid is born. And even if they start to have a pattern of sleeping for more than 2 hours at a stretch, something can happen and that pattern is completely dashed overnight. Teething, the first cold, or, well, just because the kid doesn't feel like sleeping.

You pick your method, hope for the best, and change it up if it isn't working. Any parent who believes what they did made everything work is full of crap, they just got lucky that their kid was born a certain way.

Not trying to sound bitter, just tired of seeing parents who are smug about what they think they accomplished, or that "their way" is the superior way and everyone should do it.

busy chillin': skullkrusher: busy chillin': skullkrusher: ***snip***

we havea white noise machine and baby tylenol. we wrap him in a blanket, but he rolls and squirms and gets out.

We use a white noise machine every night and have used Tylenol and an antacid.  When she had a cold, we switched to baby Advil, but neither one has had a measurable improvement on her sleep.

Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

I WISH I COULD REACH THROUGH MY MONITOR AND CHOKE YOU!!!!

Keep these threads coming.  It thrills me to no end that I've made the choice to be celibate so that I don't have to worry about any little demon-monsters running around the house.

As I read this headline I was wondering "How many posts will it take before someone blames the parents?"

Apparently the answer was 30.

Petey4335: Haley Rivera hasn't slept through the night since she was born 18 months ago.
Neither has her mom or dad.

Well that is bad parenting.  Coffee for one; tiny ear plugs for the other and switch every couple nights.

This.  Or instead of alternating every couple of nights, alternate every time Haley wakes up.  That gets each parent a solid 6 hours every night.

queezyweezel : I hope to God that nobody ever stumbles across this thread looking for child rearing advice.

Gin is for Girls
Burbon for Boys
Rum is for Mummy
Vodka is Yummy

queezyweezel: lordargent: queezyweezel : Nyquil? What the hell is wrong with you? Benadryl is for babies. B. Baby

Nyquil is for newborns. N. Newborn.

I hope to God that nobody ever stumbles across this thread looking for child rearing advice.

Wants to rear your child.

lordargent: queezyweezel : I hope to God that nobody ever stumbles across this thread looking for child rearing advice.

Gin is for Girls
Burbon for Boys
Rum is for Mummy
Vodka is Yummy

Protip: If you're reading Fark for child-rearing advice you're going to wind up on the main page yourself.

StaleCoffee: Our first son did that. For the first year of his life he didn't sleep more than 45 minutes at a time. The sleep deprivation was incredibly debilitating and painful. He didn't sleep through the night for the first time until he was 6 and we were dosing him with 9mg of melatonin per a neurologist. He still has sleep issues at age 10. He would stay up until 3 am reading if we let him, and sometimes we do just because we need to go to sleep without the argument, but he *needs* to sleep sometimes so just about every night is a battle.

Our younger son, age 6, will generally just drop off like a stone then roll out of bed in the morning without an issue.

It's hard not to sneer at parents who think their kids sleep great because they did something magical and amazing in the discipline department.  Sometimes this shiat is just something that people have to suffer through for years in order to get their kids safely to adulthood as capable, self sufficient human beings.

Have you ever just let him stay up until he decided he was tired and went to bed on his own?  When I was younger (early teens) I did not get tired until 5-6am.  As an adult I don't generally go to sleep until 1-2 am (lay down at around midnight).  However, if I take a week off work and just stay up until I am tired and wake up in the "morning" I sleep more soundly but my clock ends up back around 5am through noon.

skullkrusher: our baby sleeps 12 hours a night and has since he was about 5 weeks old. We have friends who have had the opposite experience. I don't know how the hell they do it

We are at 14 months on #2.  Probably at about week 3 of sleeping through the night.  It's been a good 6 months of a single nightly feeding though so it's been manageable.

I hate you...

queezyweezel: Atomic Spunk: Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

I WISH I COULD REACH THROUGH MY MONITOR AND CHOKE YOU!!!!

Yeah, that happened with our firstborn and he's still trying to sleep in our bed at 4 freakin years old......I TOLD YOU SO WOMAN!!!!

/Second stayed in her crib and now sleeps through the night.

Do you live in Milwaukee?

brigid_fitch: I was a colicky baby and didn't sleep through the night for the first year.  My father tells the story of how he saved my life one night.  He came home from work early one night (NY cop, worked midnight shift for a while) to find my mother up with me.  It was about 4am and I still hadn't slept.  Dad said she had a wild look in her eyes so he took me from her, sent her to bed, and took me to his parents' house for the rest of the day.  Years afterwards, he still looked back on that night and said he understood why parents sometimes drowned their kids.

Kudos to these parents for hanging in there for 18 months.  That can't be easy.

My parents said I was the same way.  My guess is baby #2 is payback for that.  Brutal first 8-10 months.

AgentBang: Off topic from the article (but in line with the current conversation), the whole concept of "sleeping through the night" is utter bullshiat. You just don't know what flavor you are going to get when the kid is born. And even if they start to have a pattern of sleeping for more than 2 hours at a stretch, something can happen and that pattern is completely dashed overnight. Teething, the first cold, or, well, just because the kid doesn't feel like sleeping.

You pick your method, hope for the best, and change it up if it isn't working. Any parent who believes what they did made everything work is full of crap, they just got lucky that their kid was born a certain way.

Not trying to sound bitter, just tired of seeing parents who are smug about what they think they accomplished, or that "their way" is the superior way and everyone should do it.

So the bolded part only works if the underlined part is true.  Not everyone mixes it up.  I have friends who picked their method - they don't want to let their baby cry himself to sleep.  So now at 16 months, the kid requires 45 minutes of rocking before he sleeps and he doesn't sleep through the night.
 So I get it, I have a lot of sympathy.  But only for the parents who legitimately gave a lot of different things a shot.

Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

That's how kids get smothered. They had a case here a few years back where daddy was a little tipsy, rolled over on the kid, and didn't wake up. Kid died and dad got some kind of jail sentence.

EvilEgg: If you don't read the article, you think how does this make her different than many kids?  Then you read she had sleep apnea, which I guess is unusual for a newborn.

Definitely considering:

Weill Cornell sleep center rules out potentially dangerous apnea 

Watubi: Lollipop165: The morning of my first day home (also as a Bronx newborn) my parents woke up at 8am in the morning and ran to my crib thinking I was dead. I was just sleeping. I never had a problem sleeping as a baby.

Still don't.

Most parents hardly get any sleep those first few nights home for fear of SIDS and making sure the baby is fed at proper intervals to regain birth weight.  Good to hear your parents didn't care about such matters and were able to sleep so soundly.

That was pretty damn funny.

Never hold a crying baby when you're standing at the top of the stairs.

About nine months into the first kid my birthday was coming around and my brother asked me what I wanted.

"A bottle of whiskey, some ear plugs, a hotel room and no one to come looking for me for twenty-four hours."

My first never made it past 2 hrs for sleeping. He had 24 ear infections in his first 22 months. He had a pediatrician practice with 5 rotating Drs - all who had multiple kids of their own - all said, "oh don't get tubes..." After aging over 10 years in those 22 months, he finally had tubes put in (took 8-10 minutes) and was fine since.

/parents - trust your gut.

"

 but indicated it may be a behavioral problem causing the sleeping problems "

"Mam, have a seat please.  I don't know how to break it to you but we've ruled out apnea and came to the conclusion your kid is just a jerk."

Did I mention how he'd only sleep/nap when held in a vertical position.... and how I saw 'The Lion King' & 'Toy Story' over and over and over and over and over... again....

/...and over and over and...

skullkrusher: stappawho: skullkrusher: our baby sleeps 12 hours a night and has since he was about 5 weeks old. We have friends who have had the opposite experience. I don't know how the hell they do it

We are at 14 months on #2.  Probably at about week 3 of sleeping through the night.  It's been a good 6 months of a single nightly feeding though so it's been manageable.

I hate you...

hehe sorry. People who allegedly like me hate me because of my baby luck this time around. I basically followed The Happiest Baby on the Block from the beginning and it worked out great. Whether that was genetics or the advice actually works, I couldn't say.

Probably a bit of both.  We followed that book too.

I have two kids and they have been very different at the various stages of growth.

Both are pretty well behaved all around which I'm sure has something to do with the way we have been raising them, but certainly not everything.

StaleCoffee: Yeah. That never ends well. It's kinda like the White Castle scenario. Every few months we try it because we don't remember how badly it ended, or figure THIS time it will work out. Then there's a few days of haunted faces, occasional hitching sobs and throbbing temple veins, and usually a new appliance or furniture purchase.

The problem is he gets bored and lonely and has some seriously bad ADD, which in our case translates to: consequences mean nothing. He can lose video games and TV for two weeks, then the day he gets them back lose it again for the same damn thing. Other behavioral training type approaches work much better but at 3 AM after being woken up every 20 minutes and not getting laid for a week because your 10 year old keeps farking knocking on the bedroom door, gentle and brilliant parenting is *really farking hard* to maintain and a GO THE fark BACK TO BED OR I WILL PILE YOUR WII GAMES ON THE GRILL AND COOK THEM FOR BREAKFAST RIGHT NOW can slip out.

Sticking to a rigid, consistent schedule is as much for our sanity as it his for his development.

I wonder if you're focused on the wrong part of the issue.  I imagine it's impossible to get a kid who is not sleepy to fall asleep, so I get why the punishments and whatnot fail.  Have you tried non drug methods of making him sleepy?  For instance, have you tried waking him up at 6AM and making sure he gets outside to play and whatnot?  And doing that for a few days in a row?  Not that I have anything against using drugs.  Just a thought.

skullkrusher: queezyweezel: lordargent: queezyweezel : Nyquil? What the hell is wrong with you? Benadryl is for babies. B. Baby

Nyquil is for newborns. N. Newborn.

I hope to God that nobody ever stumbles across this thread looking for child rearing advice.

Whiskey is for wee ones. W...

Codeine is for children.  C. Children

StaleCoffee: Mikey1969: Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

That's how kids get smothered. They had a case here a few years back where daddy was a little tipsy, rolled over on the kid, and didn't wake up. Kid died and dad got some kind of jail sentence.

We set the crib up as a side car beside the bed so mom could roll over and nurse him without getting out of bed.

We had a little flat bottomed bassinette that fit right in between us. The sides were high enough to prevent us rolling over on them or accidental pillow smothering, but low enough that I never had to wake up much to scoop them out and stick them on the breast. It was the best of both worlds, and a godsend. Plus, being very small, it was self-limiting as to how long they could stay in it, and in our bed.

jennyz: Veler suggested to Stella that she place many pacifiers around her daughter's crib, so that when Haley wakes up, she can more easily find the pacifier herself and learn to put herself back to sleep.

How the hell did they not figure that shiat out on their own??

Because, the woman giving the advice went to school for several years and she is a doctor. The parents simply created, gave birth to, and live with the child.
I wonder what the night in the clinic and that Dr's brilliant advice cost them.

Perhaps she's not yet old enough to articulate what's bothering her.

StaleCoffee: Yeah, he gets outside. He wakes up at 6 every day regardless of how much sleep he gets. We have not let it go longer than a week to see if he will crash on his own. Maybe that would work but it's not something I want to experiment with really.

Yeah I don't see why not.  It's the same principle with young kids who "refuse" to eat vegetables.  Kids don't starve themselves to death rather than eat vegetables.  Anyway, I didn't mean to come across as attacking you.  Clearly if you're at the medication stage you've tried a ton of shiat.  I didn't mean to focus on the exercise thing but rather the waking up thing because no one is going to go to sleep at 3AM and wake up at 6AM and keep that up for long.  I only threw in the exercise thing because it's something I do myself but then I'm much older and whatnot.

StaleCoffee: I grok the failure of punishments too, just, like I said. Hard to remember that at 3 AM when you're exhausted and frustrated. Honestly sometimes I feel like an asshole because I'll snap off "You just lost XYZ tomorrow" and then realize it doesn't farking matter and I shouldn't be doing that, but feel like I need to stick with it to be consistent.

I know exactly how you feel.  =]  Don't beat yourself up too much.  When that happens to me, I usually make sure once the punishment is done I spend good quality time to make up for it (without saying I'm making up for it).

StaleCoffee: Mikey1969: Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

That's how kids get smothered. They had a case here a few years back where daddy was a little tipsy, rolled over on the kid, and didn't wake up. Kid died and dad got some kind of jail sentence.

We set the crib up as a side car beside the bed so mom could roll over and nurse him without getting out of bed.

I've heard of setups like that. We let my baby actually sleep in the bed, but had a padded barrier around her that neither one of us would roll onto.


bump: Did I mention how he'd only sleep/nap when held in a vertical position.... and how I saw 'The Lion King' & 'Toy Story' over and over and over and over and over... again....

/...and over and over and...

My daughter gets leg cramps. Somehow these things are hereditary, I've had them my whole life, and they are agonizing  Totally intermittent, might get them every day for 2 weeks, and then not get them for a year. She gets the same thing, and will scream in pain for hours. Of all the movies that we have recorded for her on the DVR, the only one she'll calm down to for some reason is 'Igor'. We're to the point where we get her about 10% settled down, can put the movie on, and go back to sleep. The problem is that you never REALLY go all the way back to sleep. I have heard that movie in a semi-doze so many times, I can dream the damn thing with my eyes wide open. No other movie works, and we went through one of her periods last year where it was every 2-3 nights for a month...

Luckily, she's figured out to come in and have me rub them for a minute if they hurt even the slightest bit. Seems to do the trick. Of course, some times it's a delaying tactic at bed time.

/So sick of that farking movie...
//More sick of the leg cramps, both hers and mine.

Helllooooooooo Dr. Haviva!

namegoeshere: StaleCoffee: Mikey1969: Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

That's how kids get smothered. They had a case here a few years back where daddy was a little tipsy, rolled over on the kid, and didn't wake up. Kid died and dad got some kind of jail sentence.

We set the crib up as a side car beside the bed so mom could roll over and nurse him without getting out of bed.

We had a little flat bottomed bassinette that fit right in between us. The sides were high enough to prevent us rolling over on them or accidental pillow smothering, but low enough that I never had to wake up much to scoop them out and stick them on the breast. It was the best of both worlds, and a godsend. Plus, being very small, it was self-limiting as to how long they could stay in it, and in our bed.

Yeah, we had something similar. Worked for all the same reasons, including protecting the baby.

Pussies.  My son didn't sleep more than 2-4 hours (3 average) at a stretch until he was about 2.5 years old.

Zelron: Pussies.  My son didn't sleep more than 2-4 hours (3 average) at a stretch until he was about 2.5 years old.

And you didn't rush him to every specialist you could find daily so they could "treat" your snowflake?

Monster.

My daughter had horrible acid reflux for the first four months. She would scream non stop from 5pm until 3 am, unless we took her for a car ride that occasionally would work. It took going to the hospital on one of these nights and finding a fantastic pediatric GI doctor there that got her properly medicated.  Now that she outgrew the reflux, she sleeps for 11 hours at night. (Oh yeah and her pediatrician said that it was just colic and she would outgrow it).

My daughter did not sleep for more than a few hours at a time for the first two years. I truly thought I was going to die for awhile from lack of sleep and trying to work. She is 26 now (and a Farkette) but still does not sleep well - she will jabber and flop around all night.

I envy those parents whose kids actually sleep at night. It was a living hell for awhile.

Mikey1969: My daughter gets leg cramps. Somehow these things are hereditary, I've had them my whole life, and they are agonizing Totally intermittent, might get them every day for 2 weeks, and then not get them for a year. She gets the same thing, and will scream in pain for hours. Of all the movies that we have recorded for her on the DVR, the only one she'll calm down to for some reason is 'Igor'. We're to the point where we get her about 10% settled down, can put the movie on, and go back to sleep. The problem is that you never REALLY go all the way back to sleep. I have heard that movie in a semi-doze so many times, I can dream the damn thing with my eyes wide open. No other movie works, and we went through one of her periods last year where it was every 2-3 nights for a month...

Luckily, she's figured out to come in and have me rub them for a minute if they hurt even the slightest bit. Seems to do the trick. Of course, some times it's a delaying tactic at bed time.

/So sick of that farking movie...
//More sick of the leg cramps, both hers and mine.

Ah god I had the horrible leg cramps!  Agony, they were. I was old enough to deal with them on my own, which was good because at that time mom was not getting out of bed during the night even if there was a nuclear blast. Hot wet towels wrapped tightly around my legs, with dry ones over top, was my thing. (I did wonder why nobody asked about all the wet towels in the wash.) I didn't outgrow them until after college. My oldest seems to have missed them, but my nine year old is starting to get them. Poor baby! : (

Everyone in this thread needs to read Go The F*ck to Sleep.

Put the brats crib on top of the dryer with a no heat cycle, or go for a night time cruise.....any ambient noise works.

gja: Wild Eyed and Wicked: My daughter did not sleep for more than a few hours at a time for the first two years. I truly thought I was going to die for awhile from lack of sleep and trying to work. She is 26 now (and a Farkette) but still does not sleep well - she will jabber and flop around all night.

I envy those parents whose kids actually sleep at night. It was a living hell for awhile.

You should have a service give her wake-up calls every so often for, you know, just shiats-n-giggles.

/payback
//i keed

Hmmmmm...Drew should bundle this service in for the $5. I would be all over that...

18 months = newborn?

Amateurs.  My son didn't sleep the entire night through for almost three years.  I remember getting up in 2 hour cycles for the first year and a half.  After that, we were guaranteed that he would be up and in bed, or crying, at least two or three times a night.

I clearly remember the first night he slept all the way through.  I got up at 5 or so, snapped awake, and ran to his room.  I was absolutely convinced he had died or something.  But there he was, sleeping peacefully.  Sure, for the next few months, he went back to getting up every night.

It was only after our daughter was born did we figure out what was going on: both of them were allergic to breast milk, although his allergy was far milder.  Essentially, he was lactose intolerant.

\watched a lot of professional wrestling and infomercials those few years

blatz514:
[www.nydailynews.com image 635x433]
Dr. Haviva Veler is the director of Weill Cornell's Pediatric Sleep Center and a pediatric pulmonologist at New York-Presbyterian's Komansky Center for Children's Health.

*shakes head*

 I read that as Valveeta.

Huh.  I read it as "Princess Vaginitis, Queen of Vulvania".  Aaaand my joke would be funnier if she actually was an OBGYN.

My son start sleeping from 10PM to 6AM when he was 6 weeks old.  He's a teenager now and will sleep for 15 hours straight.

I feel bad for the parents.

queezyweezel: The My Little Pony Killer: namegoeshere: queezyweezel: brap: Well maybe if that baby hadn't done so much got damned COCAINE she wouldn't have a deviated septum.  Had a similar issue with brap jr. until we started bottle feeding him Nyquil.

Nyquil?  What the hell is wrong with you?  Benadryl is for babies.  B.  Baby.

Never EVER drug a baby to sleep with OTC medecines!

That's what whiskey is for.

I though the whiskey was for teething. Are you trying to say that gently shaking them to sleep is wrong?

Whiskey is for the babysitter.  You NEVER shake a toddler. you apply a good choke hold.

Just use pillows to muffle any sound they make...

perhaps we shouls stop one-upping now. :p

skullkrusher:
That and a white noise machine worked wonders.

Both of our boys are woefully addicted to their white noise machines.  We may have doomed them to a life of that noise to be able to sleep, but they both sleep well.  I'll take it.

How could anyone sleep with all those tubes on their face.

Gotta love a good Fark Parenting thread.

EvilEgg: If you don't read the article, you think how does this make her different than many kids?  Then you read she had sleep apnea, which I guess is unusual for a newborn.

Actually, the article said that she had moderate apnea episodes, but the findings suggest that the cause of her inability to sleep through the night was non-medical.

I skimmed the article, but here's my CSB.

My son didn't sleep longer than 4 hours at a time until he was over three years old.

First it was just crying till he was about two, then it was night terrors at least twice a night every night.

Three years.  That sucked quite badly.  If my wife hadn't quit work to stay home with him I think I'd have legitimately gone batshiat crazy.  Every night, laying in bed, knowing that at some point my son would start screaming in terror at the top of his lungs taking a good half-hour to calm down and go back to sleep.

dgames: skullkrusher:
That and a white noise machine worked wonders.

Both of our boys are woefully addicted to their white noise machines.  We may have doomed them to a life of that noise to be able to sleep, but they both sleep well.  I'll take it.

I had a friend who couldn't sleep without a fan running in the room because he needed the noise. After he was married his wife forced him to sleep in a different room until he weaned himself off the crutch.

lostcat: I had a friend who couldn't sleep without a fan running in the room because he needed the noise.

This is my oldest. She must have a fan on her, even in January. I, OTOH, can't stand a fan directly on me during the night. Even if I am sweating balls.

keenerb: I skimmed the article, but here's my CSB.

My son didn't sleep longer than 4 hours at a time until he was over three years old.

First it was just crying till he was about two, then it was night terrors at least twice a night every night.

Three years.  That sucked quite badly.  If my wife hadn't quit work to stay home with him I think I'd have legitimately gone batshiat crazy.  Every night, laying in bed, knowing that at some point my son would start screaming in terror at the top of his lungs taking a good half-hour to calm down and go back to sleep.

That does sound sucky. My daughter is 2-1/2 and just learned the word "scary" in English a few weeks ago (she could say it in Japanese..."kowai"...for a few months before that). I was almost sad, because before she started using the word, she was pretty fearless -- running into a dark room without hesitating, for example.

Now when she finds something scary, she asks a bunch of questions about it. She found a small staute of Neil Armstrong in his spacesuit and kept asking "What's this?" This turned into a lesson on astronauts and a lot of time spent on YouTube watching Space Shuttle launches and old moon-landing footage. Now she frequently comes to me and says, "Daddy, astronaut go to moont," to verify that she's learned it correctly. She seems to have gotten over her fear of spacesuits (for the most part).

As far as I know, she hasn't had a nightmare that's woken her up screaming, although she tends to cry a lot when she wakes up because she wants to drink oppai (breast milk). But then, who doesn't wake up crying because they want a breast?

She's not a newborn anymore, Subby.

Well this thread makes me never want to have kids.

just kidding. I have some friends with a one year old who has not been a good sleeper so far.. and until about 9 months she was super fussy. Other people say things about them like "They baby her too much." or "They are too high stress.", etc. etc. but honesty this couple does what they are supposed to do and has tried so many things. Some kids are just fussy.

Lucidz: Keep these threads coming.  It thrills me to no end that I've made the choice to be celibate so that I don't have to worry about any little demon-monsters running around the house.

Please tell us more about your "choice" to be celebate.

spidermilk: Well this thread makes me never want to have kids.

just kidding. I have some friends with a one year old who has not been a good sleeper so far.. and until about 9 months she was super fussy. Other people say things about them like "They baby her too much." or "They are too high stress.", etc. etc. but honesty this couple does what they are supposed to do and has tried so many things. Some kids are just fussy.

I never thought I wanted to have kids all through my 20s and most of my 30s. But I was never really against the idea. I figured I'd make a pretty good dad. Now that I have a kid I'm glad I did. My life seems a heck of a lot more full, and my daugther makes me happier than anything else.

Even from a selfish, calculating perspective, it's good to have kids. Otherwise you'd better make a crap-load of money so you can pay to have someone take care of you in your declining years.

Welcome to parenthood.

God Is My Co-Pirate: My eldest (now 4) didn't sleep for the first few months unless she was held upright, in our arms. Every time we'd start to nod off or try to slip into a semi-reclining pose, she'd wake up screaming.   I'm convinced that sleep deprivation escalated my PPD.

The first time she slept through the night?  Christmas Eve.  Best present I've ever had.

Beat Christmas present I ever got was an electric blanket.

My daughter didn't nap for the first 8 months of her life and still needed feeding every 3-4 hours at night. It was brutal. I really feel for these parents.

/The first night she slept through I panicked around 5 am until I saw she was breathing.

namegoeshere: Ah god I had the horrible leg cramps!  Agony, they were. I was old enough to deal with them on my own, which was good because at that time mom was not getting out of bed during the night even if there was a nuclear blast. Hot wet towels wrapped tightly around my legs, with dry ones over top, was my thing. (I did wonder why nobody asked about all the wet towels in the wash.) I didn't outgrow them until after college. My oldest seems to have missed them, but my nine year old is starting to get them. Poor baby! : (

I'll have to try the towels... So far the things that have worked for me:

Alcohol, a lot of it. I would drink myself to pass out stage and they'd be gone when I woke up.
Lortab(Normally for my back) about 4-5 of 'em
2-3 hour leg rub by my wife, not a sjort-time experience
As a kid, my adoptive mom was a total coont, so I just toughed it out. I don't think I ever mentioned them to her.

They almost always happen at the end of the day, right about time for bed...

My bad parenting-enabling story beats your bad parenting-enabling story.

Aka, another FARK parenting thread.

We couldn't get our daughter to bed before midnight until she was like 9 months old and we slowly moved her bedtime up from there. She would then only sleep eight hours at most. It was also at least three or four months after birth before she would nap more than 30 minutes or so. We did sleep training at ten or eleven months and that helped with the night wakings a lot (although she still wakes up at night sometimes) but she really took a long time to get used to sleeping. We've gotten to the point where she'll go to sleep between nine and ten at night and sleep until seven or so with occasional wakings with one decent nap and that's about good enough for us. We got looks of pity from our friends for the whole first year though.

I'm pregnant again, and we're really just hoping that this one will be a better sleeper. If that's the case, we'll survive. If that's not the case, and I become incomprehensible in my fark replies, please send me a babysitter and a gift card to a local hotel.

Yeah, big deal. My first one didn't sleep through the night until he was almost 4. He would occasionally bust out 3-4 hours but that was maybe once a week. He sleeps great since. My second one is normal in all respects, loves her early bedtime.

I was like this kid , as was my brother. We certainly weren't all seeing doctors about it. It's normal. I have heard of worse.

Big effin deal - my son didn't sleep through the night until he was 2-1/2.  And this is why:

"But she said most of the time Haley woke up for behavioral, not medical reasons. "

I guarantee those parents are rushing into the nursery every time their little darling cries in order to rock her back to sleep, thus depriving their little angel of the ability to soothe herself back to sleep and creating a vicious vicious circle.

/it was my fault I did it too
//but I was a single parent
///finally let mine cry it out when I had to go back to work and was losing my mind with no sleep

Maybe the kid's just afraid to fall asleep because Mom stabbed a hole through her ear and she doesn't trust that biatch.
How about waiting until the kid can actually talk and give an opinion on the subject before you pierce their ears?

skullkrusher: our baby sleeps 12 hours a night and has since he was about 5 weeks old. We have friends who have had the opposite experience. I don't know how the hell they do it

I've needed a minimum 12 hours a night for pretty much my whole life.  If my boss didn't know how straight and narrow I am, he would have to assume I was coming in hung over every morning, rather than sleep deprived.

dbirchall: Atomic Spunk: If I were offered a cute woman's nipple to suck every time I woke up crying, I'd be waking up every 3 hours too.

Our almost-14-month-old is in total agreement with this.  My wife has just recently started thinking about not letting her nap as much during the day, or keeping her up later in the evening.

We just went through this with our youngest. He is also 14 months old, and breast fed. About 2 weeks ago Mom decided that it was time for him to sleep through the night. He has always been a good eater, and was eating solids regularly, so we saw no reason to keep doing night feedings.

So one night when he woke up, I started going in and I just comforted him some and told him "No Milk". The first night he cried for an hour. The next night he got up twice, and only cried for a half hour each time. By the third night, I could go into the nursery, and he would see me, and put his head down. He got up once that night, and has slept every night since.

I admit, we have been pretty fortunate in the sleep department. We have five kids, and they are all asleep by 8pm.

My oldest didnt sleep thru the night til he was 5 years old. Quitcherbiatchin.

""she wouldn't stop screaming - every waking moment - screaming not crying, screaming.
The list of doctors was impressive.  I would just walk in with this screaming kid and say "help me - now - please"
They did every test they could think of.
She screamed bloody murder.  Until she passed out from exhaustion from screaming.
No rashes, clean diapers, no bruises or unexplained injuries, well fed, bathed
Screaming
DCPS and the PD show up - neighbors called them - "Hi, I've been expecting you"
Screaming
"Take a walk and carry her" - I walked around the Mall parking lot all night long
Take her for a ride" - I drove from Liverpool NY to Rome NY via Oneida Lake and up to Oswego
Screaming
We gave up plans to move out of state - didn't want to leave the marginal support system we had.
We moved to a larger apartment.
We put her bassinet in the kitchen area with her in it while we were moving the furniture in
She never screamed again.

I dunno - worse, neither does anyone else.

My youngest was almost four before he started sleeping through the night. Now you couldn't wake him up with dynamite before 7am.

LadyHawke: Marcintosh: ""she wouldn't stop screaming - every waking moment - screaming not crying, screaming.
The list of doctors was impressive.  I would just walk in with this screaming kid and say "help me - now - please"
They did every test they could think of.
She screamed bloody murder.  Until she passed out from exhaustion from screaming.
No rashes, clean diapers, no bruises or unexplained injuries, well fed, bathed
Screaming
DCPS and the PD show up - neighbors called them - "Hi, I've been expecting you"
Screaming
"Take a walk and carry her" - I walked around the Mall parking lot all night long
Take her for a ride" - I drove from Liverpool NY to Rome NY via Oneida Lake and up to Oswego
Screaming
We gave up plans to move out of state - didn't want to leave the marginal support system we had.
We moved to a larger apartment.
We put her bassinet in the kitchen area with her in it while we were moving the furniture in
She never screamed again.

I dunno - worse, neither does anyone else.

Poltergeist that didn't follow you to the new apartment?
I wouldn't rule it out - that's just how creepy it was.

What they should do is lock her in her room. Then sleep. They aren't animals, so of course they should make sure there aren't any Darwinism objects in the room. Turn on a television as well. If the nyquil, benadril, whiskey, and rapidly rocking back and forth to mimic MIMIC shaking doesn't work it's really the only choice they have. The kid shouldn't be an asshole and keep everyone else up. What type of message does that send? "Oh, I'm a baby, the world revolves around meeee. Everything is about me and my well-being." Psh. BS to that. B to the S with a dash of ery. BSery.

/Thank you vasectomy!

lennavan: So the bolded part only works if the underlined part is true.  Not everyone mixes it up.  I have friends who picked their method - they don't want to let their baby cry himself to sleep.  So now at 16 months, the kid requires 45 minutes of rocking before he sleeps and he doesn't sleep through the night.
 So I get it, I have a lot of sympathy.  But only for the parents who legitimately gave a lot of different things a shot.

Counterpoint

How come nobody's posted that girl from "The Ring" yet?

She never sleeps.

Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

That might work, if it weren't FARKING STUPID.  The parents actually want to sleep, not fark with the kid even more than they do now.  Kids need to learn how to sleep.  They should know that you are there, sure, but they need to be able to sleep without you.  Why?  Because healthy children can attend sleepovers, camp, nap time at preschool, and the entire span of their lives after you have died and still get to sleep eventually.

plewis: Arthur Jumbles: Instead of having the kid sleep away from the parents in a crib have them sleep in the parent's bed.

That might work, if it weren't FARKING STUPID.  The parents actually want to sleep, not fark with the kid even more than they do now.  Kids need to learn how to sleep.  They should know that you are there, sure, but they need to be able to sleep without you.  Why?  Because healthy children can attend sleepovers, camp, nap time at preschool, and the entire span of their lives after you have died and still get to sleep eventually.

Co-sleeping is a pretty natural cultural occurrence, and many families around the world and throughout history co-sleep for at least the first year or so of the kid's life.  I really don't think they've all grown up to be insomniacs.

MrPleasant: Huh....first kid would always wake up at least once during the night until he was about 2 years....maybe slept through the night once or twice. Our 8 month old has maybe slept through twice so far. Didn't know this was unusual...


I didn't know until I was probably 18 years old or so that most people don't wake up 100 times a night.  I always have and probably always will.

A year or so ago I slept the whole night through (at least pretty sure I did)...and I knew when I woke that this was the first time in my life.  It was weird, felt good.

When I was young they said I had slow sleep insomnia, it would take me hours to get to sleep at night, then I would wake often.  Once I started drinking (heavily) it pretty much got rid of that, but I awoke once the buzz started wearing off.  But I still had bouts of insomnia that would last 4-5 days with no sleep.  I don't drink nearly as much anymore and I can get to sleep much easier now, but I still wake probably 30 times a night and occaissionally go 2-3 days w/o sleep...it doesn't really bother me.

/csb

2KanZam: MrPleasant: Huh....first kid would always wake up at least once during the night until he was about 2 years....maybe slept through the night once or twice. Our 8 month old has maybe slept through twice so far. Didn't know this was unusual...


I didn't know until I was probably 18 years old or so that most people don't wake up 100 times a night.  I always have and probably always will.

A year or so ago I slept the whole night through (at least pretty sure I did)...and I knew when I woke that this was the first time in my life.  It was weird, felt good.

When I was young they said I had slow sleep insomnia, it would take me hours to get to sleep at night, then I would wake often.  Once I started drinking (heavily) it pretty much got rid of that, but I awoke once the buzz started wearing off.  But I still had bouts of insomnia that would last 4-5 days with no sleep.  I don't drink nearly as much anymore and I can get to sleep much easier now, but I still wake probably 30 times a night and occaissionally go 2-3 days w/o sleep...it doesn't really bother me.

/csb

Please go get a sleep study done. Sleep apnea and other sleep disorders can kill.

roc6783: Petey4335: Haley Rivera hasn't slept through the night since she was born 18 months ago.
Neither has her mom or dad.

Well that is bad parenting.  Coffee for one; tiny ear plugs for the other and switch every couple nights.

My daughter is almost 10 months, has only once slept through the night*, and is usually up 4+ times between 8 pm and 8 am.  She usually naps for 90 minutes in the morning (around 10 am), then about 30-60 (around 3 pm).  We have tried every suggestion short of providing her alcohol and letting her just cry until she passes out (she stands in her crib and cries longer than the 20 minutes our pediatrician recommended letting her go for).

The worst part is that, 9 of 10 times, when I go in to get her (and I have been since she was born) she just continues scream and cry until my wife comes and gets her.  She used to wake up, then could be put back down in a few minutes.  Her newest trick is to fall asleep while being held, then waking up as we are putting her into the crib, taking another 15 minutes to fall asleep, then repeating the process.  At this point we are completely out of options, and our doctor's response has been, "Yup, sometimes kids just don't sleep, sucks to be you and hopefully she grows out of it."

I would be grateful to be able to wake up and trade nights with my wife, but unfortunately, our daughter does not agree.  Also, drinking more than one cup of coffee a day is a no go for her as she is breastfeeding, not that she drinks coffee, but she will drink an occasional soda.

Last time there was a thread on baby sleep, I got several helpful suggestions from other Farkers, but not one worked.  At this point, TFA makes me wonder if I should demand a referral to get her sleep tested as her pediatrician has nothing helpful to offer.

*The day she was born, she slept for 23 out of her first 24 hours, even eating while asleep.

I would get the sleep study done (I didn't realize they could do it on such young kids) and get a complete allergy workup done (food, environment, etc). That milk allergy and acid reflux might be something to look into.

Since your wife is breastfeeding and I'm not sure if she's on solid food you could start taking probiotics to help with a colic or GI issue.

What you have to do now really is just keep a detailed diary of kiddo's day "Fed at 11am, Slept at 12, Cried at 1 in living room" and hope some pattern emerges.

If her sleep cycle is 2 hour intervals all day, you'll have to change her sleep cycle by keeping her awake so she syncs up with a much more normal sleep cycle. As a baby I would sleep all day and stay up all night, my parents had to switch me. My Dad even would pinch me to make sure I stayed awake.

busy chillin': skullkrusher: our baby sleeps 12 hours a night and has since he was about 5 weeks old. We have friends who have had the opposite experience. I don't know how the hell they do it

Lucky.

I have an 8 month that has only slept through the night about 3 times. He was getting better last week than got another tooth. And runny nose. Oh well...I always remind myself it could be much much worse. But yeah, I am ready for him to sleep through the night.

Our daughter is 14 months, still wakes (us) up every 2 hours or so.  I'm very thankful that I'm self-employed ;)

StaleCoffee: Our first son did that. For the first year of his life he didn't sleep more than 45 minutes at a time. The sleep deprivation was incredibly debilitating and painful. He didn't sleep through the night for the first time until he was 6 and we were dosing him with 9mg of melatonin per a neurologist. He still has sleep issues at age 10. He would stay up until 3 am reading if we let him, and sometimes we do just because we need to go to sleep without the argument, but he *needs* to sleep sometimes so just about every night is a battle.

Our younger son, age 6, will generally just drop off like a stone then roll out of bed in the morning without an issue.

It's hard not to sneer at parents who think their kids sleep great because they did something magical and amazing in the discipline department.  Sometimes this shiat is just something that people have to suffer through for years in order to get their kids safely to adulthood as capable, self sufficient human beings.

FWIW, when I was going through hell when my son refused to sleep through the night, I read that the lack of a need for sleep in kids was a sign of high intelligence.  Since mine has consistently tested in the 99th percentile and is currently in the top 1% of his high school class, without even trying, I'm going to go with "wow that must be true!".

shortymac: Please go get a sleep study done. Sleep apnea and other sleep disorders can kill.


I do not have sleep apnea...

...it's more like I can't turn my brain off....and I sleep so lightly that I wake to a mouse fart in the next county.

2KanZam: shortymac: Please go get a sleep study done. Sleep apnea and other sleep disorders can kill.


I do not have sleep apnea...

...it's more like I can't turn my brain off....and I sleep so lightly that I wake to a mouse fart in the next county.

than I'm guessing ADD then. This thread solidified my theory that ADD people have sleep issues.