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(The Register)   Windows 8 is now so unpopular with PC users that it's actually dragging down the value of new computers by $100   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 64
    More: Fail, PC users, Windows, Best Buy, the Reg, Microsoft Tablet PC, computers, touch screens  
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8215 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Feb 2013 at 2:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-25 02:36:06 PM  
5 votes:
I cannot fathom the idea of getting greasy, smudgy fingerprints all over my desktop monitors.  Never mind the fact that I'd have to fully extend my arm just to reach my screens.

Smudged up monitors and an exhausted arm is somehow better than a keyboard and mouse?   WTF?
2013-02-25 03:40:34 PM  
4 votes:
Wait... why did we need Windows 8 again? What was wrong with Windows 7?
2013-02-25 03:39:07 PM  
4 votes:
When the strongest argument in favor of the OS is "You can buy a third-party application that will circumvent most of the crap that people hate" there is a real problem. Why Microsoft hasn't released its own version of that application, some sort of "Desktop 8" service pack for non-touch-screen systems, is a mystery.

There are a significantly large number of consumers who do not *want* to buy a third-party application to make their  brand new OS work the way they want it to work. There are a large number of consumers who don't *want* their operating system to be a total pain in the ass to use. In fact, most end users would rather not notice the operating system at all.  The OS should exist, unnoticed, in the background.
2013-02-25 03:30:39 PM  
4 votes:

xria: Yeah, install Shell Classic or whatever, and applications to take over the various inbuilt Modern UI (like a pdf viewer, etc.), and you forget you have even changed - been using it for a few months for work and haven't had any issues once I took the plunge and installed a third party mod to de-Metro it.


Windows 8 isn't crap because you used a third-party program to decrapify it.

Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that the OS isn't the important part of computers - it's the programs the OS runs.  It's the difference between a plate and the food you eat off of it.  Windows 8 is the equivalent of taking peoples forks away and telling them they'll have so much of a better experience using chopsticks.

Your solution is to go buy plastic utensils at the grocery store.
2013-02-25 04:17:24 PM  
3 votes:
One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
img198.imageshack.us
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.
2013-02-25 04:15:31 PM  
3 votes:

yukichigai:
And this right here is why as a gamer I will never use Windows 8.  I mean I guess I'm in the minority here who doesn't want their solo effort taking down Crawmerax to be interrupted by the Charms Bar helpfully popping up and stealing focus.

I game fine, but I do run in full screen mode, which pre-empts this.  If you run windows or borderless windowed, then maybe you have a problem there.  I'll grant that could be an issue.

MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely


Reading it now, but I'm already finding stuff that is just not true.

It claims it uses double the memory, but my memory usage has decreased since I switched.  Benchmarking generally shows an (albeit modest) improvement to performance within the Win8 environment.  Complaints about not knowing which "environment" to use?  The Start Screen is only an "environment" for single-purpose apps; it's like "Big Picture" mode for Steam.  Otherwise, it's a full-screen start menu that is easier to customize visually.

As for claims that it can't run more than one window?  I'm running 5 windows right now (Steam, Steam Message, Control Panel, File Explorer and Chrome), with no problem.  Oh, he means within the start screen?  I wasn't aware that it was designed for multitasking; that's what the desktop is for.

The guy complains that it's hard to know where to click to make it do something, by showing a picture of several icons.  Why doesn't he try clicking on the little pictures?  The people in idiocracy knew how to do that shiat:
 2.bp.blogspot.com

The gripes about the "low information density" of Start Screen apps?  Perfectly valid, especially about 5 months ago when there were a lot fewer apps by only a few sources.  Now, if you want higher information density, there's a wide variety of apps from all over the place.  And you can still use the damn desktop.

Live tiles complaint?  If you have trouble figuring out which apps are which (guessing maybe you forgot how you arranged them that way and why), you can right click and disable the live tile function.  The Charms bar?  Yeah, fairly useless for the most part.  Would've worked better with a standard set of tiles you can choose to use or not use on your screen.

That article seems to assume that you use the Start Screen for almost everything on the planet, ignoring that they give you a big "Desktop" tile on the Start Screen for a reason.  Start Screen is a big start menu that can run single-purpose apps.  I'm pretty sure they didn't design it for everyone to live in it.  The single-purpose apps are good for a quick morning briefing before work, not for doing all your work on 'em.
2013-02-25 02:50:31 PM  
3 votes:

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.

Yeah, HORRIBLE problem, that. God forbid anything should ever change. Or could afford $5 for a utility that brings back that precious start button.


It rubs me the wrong way to spend even a dime to return functionality to a new 'improved' OS.
2013-02-25 12:07:02 PM  
3 votes:

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


I like Win8. But I installed a start menu replacement, so I never see the metro crap and I have my start button back again.

What kills me are Win8 white nights who constantly tell people that they can do the same things they did before, but a different way. Most people, myself included, already know how to do things fast and don't
need or want a different way.
2013-02-25 11:35:22 AM  
3 votes:
I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.
2013-02-25 11:21:21 AM  
3 votes:
Yeah, probably because Microsoft is now charging another $100 for Windows 7. I will not subject my users to Windows 8. I care about them too much to do that, plus I don't want to deal with the support calls. If need be, I'll go bootleg on 7.

Assholes.
2013-02-25 05:34:01 PM  
2 votes:
and to think they could have avoided all of this if they'd just left a 'switch to classic mode/gimmie mah start button you asshole!' option.  Sorry people push it off as trivial but its not, its really not and its costing them dearly.  Too bad.
2013-02-25 04:14:18 PM  
2 votes:
Windows 8 is fine.

The real problem Microsoft has is that windows 7 is too good, and nobody wants to upgrade because there is no compelling reason to.
2013-02-25 04:13:59 PM  
2 votes:

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


It's because of Metro. More to the point, it's that desktop users have the Metro interface forced on them. If Win8 provided the option to easily switch back and forth without having to download and install third-party software, it would be more well received.

The interface is key, and I hate, hate, HATE having to learn a new interface when the old one worked so well. I held onto my Office 2003 as long as possible until my computer crapped out and I had to upgrade. TO be fair, I like a lot of the Office 2010 features, but I miss my old interface. It made sense to me, and I should have the option to use the previous interface if I want. I still resent being forced to use the new system. I can appreciate giving people the option, but there was no need to toss what worked and force people to use a clunky new system that I still find slower than using the old system.

So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.
2013-02-25 02:40:34 PM  
2 votes:

President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.


How about you think Win 8 is a good OS, so you can deal with it. A good portion of us thinks it sucks.
2013-02-25 11:41:09 AM  
2 votes:

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


Agreed. Win8 runs smoother than most MS crap they've put out in years, it's just a pain to navigate around the Metro crap. I can ALMOST understand them trying to standardize an interface between phone / tablet / desktop. but the bottom line is that it just doesn't work.I neither expect nor want my desktop to behave the same as my phone. Even if I did, I'd probably prefer Android as a base instead of MS.

Solkar: Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


Me either. Metro sucks balls, but otherwise no real complaints.
2013-02-25 11:18:32 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.


ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.
2013-02-27 04:17:39 AM  
1 votes:
I'm sorry Heartburn but you clearly don't know much about UI and especially UI for Software tools design, and are just regurgitating the tired talking points you've heard before.

Firstly, the corners of your screen make the 4 best targets on your entire monitor.  This is a basic GUI principle.  That is because hitting the target is incredibly easy, you just Jam the mouse in a single direction and it will reach the spot.  That click "target" size in this case is: Infinity - Current Cursor Location.  That is a big target.  Win7 works that way as well if you test it, Jam the mouse into the corner and you can still click the start button.  Using them is good design and is also intuitive.

Secondly, your OS is a tool for getting things done.  Tools you use frequently have different requirements then ones you use occasionally, such as an ATM.  With a frequently used tool a learning curve is acceptable in order to facilitate better workflow.  All windows have a learning curve, Windows 95 had a HUGE learning curve, and you had to be TRAINED to use it.  That curve was beyond anything even remotely imagined by Win8, the sum of whose desktop training is basically "We got the start button out of the way for you making the task bar more useful, but it is still there, just push the mouse into the corner a little more."

A bit of training is a desired trade-off for long term productivity gains.  The custom tools I've worked on and designed can take a week or two to train someone in, but once they are trained and have practiced a bit they can work VERY quickly.  The trade-off in Win8 is a minuscule amount of new training for a much better and easier to use overall interface that hides things when you don't want them and gives them to you quickly when you do.

Thirdly, your grandma and my grandpa would find windows 8 MUCH easier to use.  Primarily because they wouldn't even need the desktop if they found it too hard to use.  "Here grandpa, click here to use your email.  Click here to watch a video.  Click here to look at your pictures.  If you save a picture from your email then you just click here to look at it again."  Simple, easy, and intuitive.  Single Button mapped directly to a single purpose, well designed and without clutter to distract or confuse them. My girlfriend saw me using Win8 and simply by watching me use it, wanted to buy it because she liked the look of the Start Screen and how I used it.  I think she had about 3 questions the first hour and that was it.

About the charms bar and your complaints that it is slow, I tried timing how long it takes something to be clickable, but I couldn't press stopwatch button fast enough.  I started to make a fraps video so I could count the frames and calculate its speed that way when I decided that if you have to measure how long it takes the charms bar to come up the same way you'd measure how fast a bullet moves then it is fast enough.
2013-02-26 08:02:53 PM  
1 votes:

fisker: HeartBurnKid: fisker: HeartBurnKid: I'm glad you like it. You can have it.

No. I am convinced that I am doing something wrong and this really isn't a good operating system. This is too good to be true. How can so many people who don't even use it be so right?

What in the world makes you think I haven't used it?

-Because we are still talking about charms bar woes. Something I got over and came to appreciate after the first 5 minutes.

I've gone into many things about why this is over all a better OS and we are still talking about the charms bar and Nickelback.


That you came to appreciate poor UI design doesn't make it any less poor.  I'm sure there's some guy out there that really loved Microsoft Bob too.
2013-02-26 07:39:32 PM  
1 votes:

fisker: HeartBurnKid: I noticed that you failed to answer the question, and instead decided to mock me for even asking. I assume that you did this because you didn't want to admit that the answer is, indeed, "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."

I have to move my mouse over to the bottom or top right hand corner and then the charms bar comes out. Or I can hit WIN + C.

Your complaint is that it is unmarked? Or is it something you simply have to pay attention to in a simply and brief tutorial? What is the actual problem you are having? Start over. From the beginning. What is the real issue you are having?


The issue I am having is that every single change to the Windows 8 UI is poorly-thought-out, completely non-intuitive, and seems expressly designed to break your workflow as much as possible.  It's nice that you've sat down and taken the time to get used to it and all, and if you like it, bully for you.  Even Nickelback has fans.  But if you think this is the way that a UI should be designed, and everybody else is just afraid of "something new", you're a moron.
2013-02-26 12:00:55 AM  
1 votes:
Seems that the new UI was created by the creative marketing team, and not the user experience team?
2013-02-25 10:41:40 PM  
1 votes:
Upgraded an old XP Home laptop to Windows 8 for $39. Works perfectly, feels like a new machine. I'm more of a Mac guy, but even at that, no complaints. Just sayin'.


/Start menu disappears and y'all freak out.
2013-02-25 10:17:54 PM  
1 votes:
I got 8 on the last day of January.  Not going back.  This thing boots fast like Ubuntu.  And the Metro IU is nothing more than windows wearing sock puppets, for fark's sake.  Metro is only confusing for people who could never get past the tutorial mode on a goddamned speak-and-spell.  And even if you ARE one of those people, getting back to a normal desktop is one key tap away.

/keepin' it
2013-02-25 09:39:39 PM  
1 votes:

Rwa2play: Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.

Really?


www.digitaltrends.com 

If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.

I like how the panel for the Windows Blog isn't even smart enough to convert the "&" code from the RSS feed.

Also, my Mom would be calling me to complain about how the screen is chopped off on the edge.

Metro was designed for people who surf the web, not for people that need to be productive. It is meant to convey as much information to the user onscreen as possible.... it's the evolution of screen widgets, which have had a spotty history and place in our UIs for the last 14 or 15 years or so.

The problem is that widgets are great if they are up on an airport wall, or in the corner of a cafe.... but ultimately, they are only worth a few seconds of our notice, not our full attention 100% of the time. We've spent the last two decades getting used to "multitasking" - windowed environments where very different applications can have data cut and pasted between them; Metro is the antithesis of this.

Sure, as a consolation prize, we have a desktop... shoved to second-class citizen status in the Operating System's UI, and Neutered (Start menu removed) for no obvious reason, other than to tell users, "stay the fark out of that old desktop!".

Yes, there are third party solutions to "fix" the problem... but why is this the party line now? Microsoft made a big deal out of running WinXP via a Virtual PC box.... we had third party solutions for that too...  Microsoft insists on pushing Windows Defender... but there are third party solutions for that, too. In the end, they had no reason to brutally chop the desktop away, other than to encourage users to stay in the ugly Metro screen, which only AMPLIFIES how bad Metro is - that Microsoft had to resort to cheap tactics, instead of relying on what SUPPOSEDLY is a superior UI to stand on its own against a fully functional desktop UI.

I'll also say again... gestures are the devil on desktop PCs. Nobody wants to spend 8 hours holding up their arms, swiping and swooshing their screens. Nobody wants to keep their fingers super clean to prevent the screen from looking like it was slobbered on by Ke$ha's lady parts after an hours worth of touchscreen usage. Nobody likes to have to MEMORIZE obscure keyboard commands or "hovering locations" to get "charm bars" to magically appear.

All that said, it's kind of sad that Microsoft made some great improvements UNDER the hood.... then proceeded to put a 1978 AMC Pacer body on top of it.  ...And just like the 1978 Pacer, Metro has its fans (though it's usually the same Farker suspects White Knighting Win8) - surely none of them here have anything to do with Microsoft or the Win8 development team.

Balmer needs to own up to the mistake in pushing this experiment on the public at large, and release a Service Pack that brings back the Desktop to its proper glory.
2013-02-25 09:00:39 PM  
1 votes:

Rwa2play: Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.

Really?

[www.digitaltrends.com image 850x477]

If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.


Oh look! It's Pointcast showing you stuff on your screen...when you're not there.
2013-02-25 08:41:44 PM  
1 votes:

Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.


Really?

www.digitaltrends.com

If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.
2013-02-25 08:39:25 PM  
1 votes:

HeartBurnKid: CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months

Yeah... it's not better.  Maybe it's better if you have a "hybrid tablet", but on a standard desktop, it's the drizzling shiats.


This.
2013-02-25 08:33:55 PM  
1 votes:
I've been using Windows 8 (since it came on my computer) and haven't been having any issues with it.
2013-02-25 08:26:28 PM  
1 votes:
Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.
2013-02-25 06:58:05 PM  
1 votes:
Also, computer prices always drop about $100 this time of year.
2013-02-25 06:27:22 PM  
1 votes:

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


www.orangeinks.com
2013-02-25 06:04:08 PM  
1 votes:
Windows 8 is a fascist OS with a metrosexual UI.
2013-02-25 05:59:20 PM  
1 votes:

fluffy2097: mongbiohazard: I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.

Have you checked your power management settings? Sandy bridge processors clock down to like 1.6ghz when idle to save power, and if your power management is enabled, lots of things will never trigger the processor to step up to it's full speed.

Make sure all that shiat is turned off.


Thanks for the tip. I'll check that when I get home tonight to be safe, but I'm pretty certain that isn't it. All my power management stuff should already pretty much be set to "it's a desktop - use all the electrons with greed". It's one of the first things I tweak.

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.



I like Mac hardware, but I despise the Mac OS with the burning passion of a thousand suns - so I'm no Mac fanboy. I've been using Windows 8 for a few weeks now.... and it's noticeably slower than Windows 7 was on the exact same hardware. There's a short but noticeable delay now when I so much as open a folder, and that delay was not there under 7. My games don't run any better, if anything I've noticed a few more stutters here and there than before, and Skyrim just won't run for more than a few seconds any more, but generally speaking with my hardware I don't lack for power to run games anyway, so there isn't a huge difference.

But the basic GUI functions being noticeably slower on the same hardware is irking me quite a bit. I run an i5 with 16 gigs of RAM and a 560Ti OC video card... there's no way the GUI should be anything but instantly responsive with no programs running. It was under 7.... it's not under 8. Sorry, but that's the honest truth of the experience I'm having. This is probably going to make me downgrade back to 7.

And Metro is horribad on a desktop PC. I'm guessing I'd probably like it just fine on a tablet, but that's not what I'm using it on. It didn't take me long of using the Metro interface before I hid it and never wanted to see it on my machine again.

So if history teaches us anything I'm betting Windows 9 is going to be fantastic.
2013-02-25 05:34:08 PM  
1 votes:
img543.imageshack.us
2013-02-25 05:30:11 PM  
1 votes:
Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: red5ish: I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling.

Speak for yourself. Personally I think the OSX-style "make everything look like faux glass and chrome" look is hideous and horribly dated. I'm looking at little blobs of light on a screen. I don't need to pretend those blobs of light are physical materials, geometric shapes and minimalist colors are exactly what I want. I'd have the GUI in monochrome if I could.

The windows in OSX have been a flat grey gradient since 10.5.  I think you mean the Dock they introduced in 10.6 which reflects the window contents above it.  I'm not a big fan of it myself and I could do without it, but I consider it a small point since it's not terribly jarring and it's only in the Dock.

What's terribly jarring and a large point is the two-color icons in Windows 8 which make it difficult to tell what something is without reading the caption (making the icon rather pointless), the lack of any visual cue as to tell what is clickable and what is a label (in the old days of web browsers underlines blue text indicated a clickable hyperlink), and what others are calling low information density, something I noticed when I opened the Metro version of Internet Explorer for the first time (and yes I find it also troubling that  there are two different IE UIs, one in Desktop and one from the main tile).  The old IE would show toolbars and menus with information, the Metro one shows a single bar to type in and four monochrome icons with no caption.  I see what they're trying to do, but man are they going about it the wrong way.
2013-02-25 05:27:52 PM  
1 votes:
Seriously?  Nobody has posted this yet?

i.imgur.com
2013-02-25 05:02:57 PM  
1 votes:

ZeroCorpse: When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button.


That word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Also, I'm a pretty hard core PC gamer and I haven't noticed any speed improvement in games at all.  They don't load any faster, and they already ran pretty well to begin with.

Also, I had to add the Start Button back because, as I noted upthread, hot corners are a nightmare if you have multiple monitors.
2013-02-25 04:43:04 PM  
1 votes:

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


I don't really have a problem with the look.  I DO have a problem with it insisting on both taking up an entire monitor and having only one level of organizational depth.  On my dual-screen setup I really wouldn't mind it doing a whole screen, since I usually have a "biatch monitor" that I shove unimportant things off to anyway.  On my laptop though (my non-touchscreen laptop with the huge beautiful display) it seems rather unnecessary and disruptive.  I'm a big boy; I can handle having something in the background while I figure out what other program I want to run.

The lack of nested menu organization is a killer though.  I like things to be organized into groupings of program type (Audio, Video, Game, Maintenance, etc.), then folders for each individual program if they have multiple components/etc.  Instead you get one level and that's it.  That's just bad.
2013-02-25 04:35:22 PM  
1 votes:

stevetherobot: That's another thing I don't like about Windows 8. Pressing the Win key now brings up the Metro UI.


That isn't the Metro UI, it is the start menu, the new and better designed one.  Pressing the windows key in Win7 also opens the start menu.
2013-02-25 04:24:44 PM  
1 votes:
www.blogcdn.com
Goodbye, Mac.  I'm off to get Fisher-Price icons tattooed all over me.
2013-02-25 04:18:20 PM  
1 votes:
I like it, its pretty damn easy to avoid the metro interface entirely.
2013-02-25 04:17:23 PM  
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.


Have you checked your power management settings? Sandy bridge processors clock down to like 1.6ghz when idle to save power, and if your power management is enabled, lots of things will never trigger the processor to step up to it's full speed.

Make sure all that shiat is turned off.
2013-02-25 04:10:31 PM  
1 votes:
I recently "upgraded" to Window 8 Pro when it was on sale for $40 a few weeks ago.

The good:
The design overall is very minimalist and I really like that a lot. The upgrade process was almost totally painless - hands down the smoothest OS upgrade/install I've ever done. The new file copy dialogue box is pretty awesome. $40 bucks and I have my first ever fully legit Windows install! If they priced the previous ones like this I might have bought earlier versions of Windows, but I'm a working class dude so $300 for an OS is a big chunk of cash for me and is going to make me pirate it - sorry, it might not be fair or right but it's the truth... $40 though was great, so I snatched it up. DirectX 11.1 - which maybe some day I might possibly use, maybe... we'll see.

The bad:
It's slower... On the exact same hardware that I was running Windows 7 (intel i5 CPU, 16 gigs of RAM, 560Ti OC video card, etc...) the basic functions - like opening windows, starting programs, copying files - all have a noticeable slight delay under Win8 that they didn't have under Win7. And on a machine with mine's specs basic stuff like that should not show much of a difference. The new Metro interface I think I would grow fond of on a tablet.... but on my gaming machine it's complete dogshiat - so I hid it immediately. It seems like a waste because there's actually no NEED to upgrade to 8, because 7 pretty much does everything 8 does except for Metro (which I don't want on an actual PC anyway) and DirectX 11.1 (which won't matter until I get a 3D monitor anyway, and still probably not for quite a while after that) - and in my experience 7 provides a more responsive GUI. No Start button with its program list to find that one program you only use once a month or something (and have I mentioned yet that Metro is a shiatty substitute on a PC? Because it really is).


I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.

The good news though, is that if you really do need DirectX 11.1 or something then you're going to love the upgrade process.
2013-02-25 04:07:20 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Rwa2play: ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.

What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.

The interface is so bad that you will want to use bleach on your eyes


CSB time:  Went to get a new monitor Friday night and decided to play with a Windows 8 machine (had done so before and didn't enjoy the experience)...wanted to get very very stabby when I couldn't just click out of IE 10 and back to the desktop.

I, for one, wonder who was the genius that didn't say to the PTB the following: "Why don't we give our customers the option of using the Luna-styled interface or Metro at installation?"

And, if they did, I'd like to know his/her superior that shot down that idea.
2013-02-25 03:58:10 PM  
1 votes:

ColdFusion: Communist_Manifesto: Yes I could google this but I figured someone here has already done it. I got over most of my gripes after installing Classic Shell and banishing Metro to wherever it is now.

How do I make it stop pulling up the system controls stuff whenever I scroll over to the right side of the screen?

Also, sometimes when I'm playing civilization I make some move on my track pad and I guess Win 8 is set up to go to the homescreen whenever I make a certain move (what it is I can't figure out), how the hell do I turn off this "feature"?

Moving the mouse to the upper or lower right corners of the screen will pop up the "Charms Bar".  The only way to disable this is to edit the Registry.  If you're up for it, here you go:   http://betanews.com/2012/08/21/disable-the-charms-panel-in-windows-8/


Oh christ, I knew it would be something like that. Considering I don't have the skillz to unfark that up if I fark it up I guess I will have to live with the "charm" bar. Thanks anyway!

The other issue isn't anything to do with a charm bar, it's a mouse gesture type thing.

And after googling it looks like another thing I would need to edit the registry for. Goddamnit  http://superuser.com/questions/494705/modify-or-disable-windows-8-swi p e-gestures-on-touchpad-laptop
2013-02-25 03:54:55 PM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: Do you not find the corners to be helpful, especially if your primary access to Windows-based systems is through remote desktop interface windows that do not occupy the entire screen?


Oh yeah, the BEST.  Especially with the inherent display lag on a remote connect that delays the time it takes for me to see when the Charms Bar/Start Screen Button/etc. has come up so I can click and actually do something.
2013-02-25 03:54:29 PM  
1 votes:

yukichigai: Saiga410: yukichigai: it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it"

I have yet had a chance to play with Win8.  This is really what is expected in destop mode?

There's no "start button" to get the Start Screen.  Instead you're expected to cram your mouse over to the bottom-left corner, which will then produce something you can click.  The charms bar, which holds the Control Panel-esque functions, is over in the right side of the screen.

Desktop apps don't have to be closed with click and drag, thank God, but Metro apps do.  The login screen also requires you to click the little banner thing and then drag it down to reveal the login prompt, etc. etc. etc.  Little to none of this can be disabled.


There are a few things about the new start screen that are aggravating if you're a desktop user:

1)  It would be nice if you could adjust the time required to display the start button or the charms bar.  It takes a little too long.
2) Hot corners are a terrible idea if you have more than one monitor.  I have three, and getting a hot corner to show up on the middle monitor is an exercise in madness because you can't just slap the cursor up against the side of the screen.

Microsoft should have thought this through a little more.
2013-02-25 03:47:12 PM  
1 votes:

ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).


Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."
2013-02-25 03:31:31 PM  
1 votes:

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


They're mandating touchscreen aesthetics and design on a system that is meant to handle keyboard+mouse input.

Win 8 is great for tablets and touchscreens.  For those of us who still use an actual mouse, gestures and hot zones are an added inconvenience we would disable if we could.  Since we can't, it turns EVERY ACTION into something which is just a little bit inconvenient.  Sure, doesn't seem like much, but when your entire day is "try to do something, it's slightly inconvenient but you can do it" it adds up quickly into one big problem.

It's not the start screen, though that is kind of bad.  It's the fact that instead of buttons and clicking them, it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it". The buttons worked fine, thanks.  They didn't need fixing; they weren't broken.
2013-02-25 03:15:03 PM  
1 votes:
All MS had to do was have an option for the old interface, but no they had to push their new bullshiat on people who don't want it.
2013-02-25 03:08:14 PM  
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: What I don't get is why Microsoft ever felt the need to inflict Win8 upon us in the form that they did.  I get that you want to leverage touch screens, move in the direction of common UI themes across multiple platforms, etc.   That said make it so Win8 has a switch in it where you can either do a Win7 desktop style or the Win8 tiles. Let the consumer pick.

For example a tablet that ran around in tile model, but could be set so when your bluetooth keyboard and mouse connected it automatically flipped over to the classic UI would be nice.  A laptop that detected when you folder the screen over into slate mode and switched to tiles would also be awesome.  Tiles could also exist in the classic UI like widgets.  Let me pick how much I want.  Like just a row of the touch tiles on the bottom of the screen.

Each UI has its perks, so while the hell did anyone think it was a good idea to make you pick just one?

/also Windows should be smart enough to determine if each monitor is touch table or not and react.  Another awesome mode would be my giant 24" monitor in front of me and a 15" touch monitor lying flat on the desk that I can use to input commands


They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.  If they had forced that pinhead to use a typical desktop set-up, they could have saved themselves and everyone else a lot of aggravation.  They have an Apple fixation fetish, and they're paying for it.  And so are we.
2013-02-25 03:08:04 PM  
1 votes:
Eh, another Win8 hate thread.

New computer came with Win 8, planned to downgrade it but gave it a shot.  Thirty minutes and a couple questions on google and I was good to go.  Still use the start screen, customized it for my needs and it works faster for me than the start menu ever did.  Nice to have a dedicated TuneInRadio app for streaming music while I work.  All my stuff is exactly where I want it on the start screen; nothing I don't want is visible.  I just go direct for what I want.  I wouldn't want the old start menu back now.

I can understand why the business people hate it.  But they always seem to hate every change.  fark, I remember the whining about how Windows XP was going to be the cancer that killed computing because of the Authentication system, and how it was the worst thing to happen to the Enterprise-sector sales since the invention of taxes.

/Still have no idea why people have problems with the Metro interface using a mouse.
//It's still farking icons, you just click once instead of twice.
///Not complicated.
2013-02-25 03:07:49 PM  
1 votes:
Touchscreen = Voice recognition = OCR = FAIL

All three sound great to an uninformed consumer until the actually try to use them and find out the old interfaces were always better and that why we used them.


And you can add 'everything on 1 remote' for your entertainment system.
2013-02-25 03:02:25 PM  
1 votes:
The big problem for me is that Win 8 farks up my workflow because I have lost all those helpful jump lists in the Start Menu. When going back to recent documents, I usually just go to the Start Menu, select the app, then mouse over to the Recent docs opened with that app. There's just not a good way to replicate that workflow with Win 8, and having a flat folder structure for the Start Screen doesn't work well with many legacy apps.
2013-02-25 03:00:50 PM  
1 votes:
img189.imageshack.us

Suck it, Ballmer. You'll have to try Windows 3.1 from my cold, dead, hands.

/Trumpet Winsock FTW
2013-02-25 02:57:01 PM  
1 votes:
They'll have to pry it into my cold dead hands.
2013-02-25 02:55:50 PM  
1 votes:
What I don't get is why Microsoft ever felt the need to inflict Win8 upon us in the form that they did.  I get that you want to leverage touch screens, move in the direction of common UI themes across multiple platforms, etc.   That said make it so Win8 has a switch in it where you can either do a Win7 desktop style or the Win8 tiles. Let the consumer pick.

For example a tablet that ran around in tile model, but could be set so when your bluetooth keyboard and mouse connected it automatically flipped over to the classic UI would be nice.  A laptop that detected when you folder the screen over into slate mode and switched to tiles would also be awesome.  Tiles could also exist in the classic UI like widgets.  Let me pick how much I want.  Like just a row of the touch tiles on the bottom of the screen.

Each UI has its perks, so while the hell did anyone think it was a good idea to make you pick just one?

/also Windows should be smart enough to determine if each monitor is touch table or not and react.  Another awesome mode would be my giant 24" monitor in front of me and a 15" touch monitor lying flat on the desk that I can use to input commands
2013-02-25 02:55:44 PM  
1 votes:

zarberg: 6 Ways to avoid the Metro Interface in Win 8


1 easy way. You can still get a new computer that runs Windows 7.
2013-02-25 02:54:38 PM  
1 votes:

Dr. Whoof: Granted it's easy to install classic shell and forget about it, but most IT departments are already overtaxed and don't need to spend time fixing what is essentially a broken UI from Microsoft.


Right now, most companies are likely either migrating to Windows 7, or have just finished moving to it and in either case would not be even considering a move to Windows 8. It's possible that MS knew that Win 8 would have low adoption rates in businesses, which would give them another 3 years to refine the new UI to something that works for businesses. It always takes MS two major releases of Windows to get things right
2013-02-25 02:49:52 PM  
1 votes:
It's the shear arrogance of Microsoft forcing Metro on people that pisses me off.  It should come with a simple option to disable that mess.  I'm no Apple fanboy, but at least when they introduced some "mobile" type features into OS X they were entirely optional (Launch Pad, natural scrolling, etc.)

I'm going to be stubborn this time.  I refuse to install it until they decide to not force the crappy UI on me (I don't care if there are 3rd party workarounds).  Apparently the IT department at the university I work at agrees with me.
2013-02-25 02:45:14 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: You can even get a program to replace the start menu if you want it.  Or get a touch mouse or just learn how to organize it.  People don't like Win8 because it isn't what they are used to.


It's not just not what they are used to.  While home PC use is certainly an important market, business computing is huge, and metro is a huge middle finger to business use. The desktop style works, the table style just doesn't.  Not for business use.  Sometimes "if it's not broke, don't fix it" should be taken to heart.

Granted it's easy to install classic shell and forget about it, but most IT departments are already overtaxed and don't need to spend time fixing what is essentially a broken UI from Microsoft.
2013-02-25 02:35:48 PM  
1 votes:
As much as I think Win 8 sucks (it does you know) I think this may have more to do with a touch screen computer, then the actual OS.
2013-02-25 12:57:52 PM  
1 votes:
What a derpy headline, considering this is a meat of the article: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?
2013-02-25 12:24:55 PM  
1 votes:
I was tasked with getting my mother a new computer this year and I refused to even consider a system that came with Windows 8 because I wasn't comfortable getting her something that was so radically different that I was completely unfamiliar wtih.

The problem with microsoft is that they keep releasing products they think their customers SHOULD want, without putting much mind into what their customers actually DO want.  Every other operating system they release greatly overreaches and then they have to bring themselves back down to Earth on the following O/S. Windows Vista sucked balls, which is why Windows 7 was so much better.  Windows 8 is HORRIBLE, which is why Windows 9 will probably (hopefully) be fantasic.
2013-02-25 11:09:55 AM  
1 votes:
Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.
 
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