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(The Register)   Windows 8 is now so unpopular with PC users that it's actually dragging down the value of new computers by $100   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 350
    More: Fail, PC users, Windows, Best Buy, the Reg, Microsoft Tablet PC, computers, touch screens  
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8214 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Feb 2013 at 2:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-26 12:42:11 AM

sendtodave: MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely

"One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window." "

OK, that's funny.


No it doesn't.
 
2013-02-26 12:43:37 AM

yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."


Wrong.
 
2013-02-26 12:47:23 AM

Karac: xria: Yeah, install Shell Classic or whatever, and applications to take over the various inbuilt Modern UI (like a pdf viewer, etc.), and you forget you have even changed - been using it for a few months for work and haven't had any issues once I took the plunge and installed a third party mod to de-Metro it.

Windows 8 isn't crap because you used a third-party program to decrapify it.

Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that the OS isn't the important part of computers - it's the programs the OS runs.  It's the difference between a plate and the food you eat off of it.  Windows 8 is the equivalent of taking peoples forks away and telling them they'll have so much of a better experience using chopsticks.

Your solution is to go buy plastic utensils at the grocery store.


I have no idea how you guys come up with this shiat. I'm using this OS and you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
2013-02-26 12:53:24 AM

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.


This is exactly what is happening and it is frightening.
 
2013-02-26 12:55:17 AM

meanmutton: It's mainly from people who haven't actually used it. It's freakishly fast. My laptop literally boots up from hibernate mode in less than four seconds. If I "sleep" it, it takes less than a second usually to come up.


I am experiencing the exact same results. This thing turns on like my television.
 
2013-02-26 12:55:40 AM

BullBearMS: Mad_Radhu: SuperT: I miss NT.

uh, hate to tell you, but XP was NT 6.

Actually, it was NT 5.1, and Vista was NT 6.

IHere's the problem with those "official" version numbers. The first version of Windows NT got the official version number of 3.1, instead of 1.0.

After you adjust to rational version numbers (where we don't pretend the first version of something is 3) it goes like this.

Windows NT 3.1 was really version 1
Windows NT 4 was really version 2
Windows 2000 was really version 3
Windows XP was really version 3.1
Windows Vista was really version 4
Windows 7 was really version 4.1
Windows 8 is really version 4.2


Hopefully, this got corrected already. Windows 7 was officially version 7 but so many programs were checking to see if the kernel was 6.x or lower that they just called it 6.1 instead of breaking all those programs. So Windows 7 is really your version 5.
 
2013-02-26 12:59:28 AM

President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


Make that AmigaDos 1.2.
 
2013-02-26 01:04:15 AM

Beowoolfie: President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.

Make that AmigaDos 1.2.


1.2 still shat itself if you dragged the trashcan icon into the trashcan window.
 
2013-02-26 01:10:00 AM
'OMG, THE START MENU!!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!'

Please. That is the same argument the last 13 year old kid made about Windows 8 that he read about on the internet after watching a video on why windows 8 sucks on youtube.
 
2013-02-26 01:14:01 AM

pudding7: I cannot fathom the idea of getting greasy, smudgy fingerprints all over my desktop monitors.  Never mind the fact that I'd have to fully extend my arm just to reach my screens.

Smudged up monitors and an exhausted arm is somehow better than a keyboard and mouse?   WTF?


What is wrong with using the keyboard and mouse?

I would sincerely like a reason because unless I am dreaming, it seems to be working just fine.

This shiat is unbelievable. Absolutely farking stunned.

Oh, wait. You were kidding.
 
2013-02-26 01:26:25 AM
I figure most people don't like 8 because it's two numbers higher than potato and one below rhubarb.  Only sane reason I can think of.
 
2013-02-26 01:27:56 AM

fisker: sendtodave: MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely

"One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window." "

OK, that's funny.

No it doesn't.


It doesn't what?
 
2013-02-26 01:35:57 AM
Honestly, the only reason I could come up with to not upgrade to Windows 8 was that I didn't want to upgrade. I had just bought a new laptop with Windows 7.

I think that that is the core of the argument against Windows 8 and it's easy to say that it sucks because every other OS Microsoft has released sucked. You have that going for you. USE THAT when telling people you think it sucks. It's working, too. Sad.

It's easy to say it's designed for a tablet. It's easy to say it doesn't have a start menu. (Which it does but people are farking retarded.)

These the best and only arguments you will hear. They are bullshiat arguments.

You will never hear a technical argument other than, 'My grandma couldn't use it, so I WONT USE IT!!!' anywhere on the internet.

You can't explain why it is more efficient operating system and when you hear that it is and see the data backing it, you freak out because now you realize that you need to upgrade and you don't want to. That sucks, man. I feel for you, really.
 
2013-02-26 01:45:26 AM

sendtodave: fisker: sendtodave: MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely

"One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window." "

OK, that's funny.

No it doesn't.

It doesn't what?


Snap view isn't supported anymore.
 
2013-02-26 01:46:11 AM

sendtodave: It doesn't what?


Restrict you.
 
2013-02-26 01:50:12 AM

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


Eh, clap Classic Shell onto it, and it's fine. It's signficantly zippier, once you decrapify it.

I don't regret finally upgrading from XP.
 
2013-02-26 01:52:33 AM

President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.


True dat. I still run a tower with a couple of PIIIs and mere gig of RAM under Windows 2000, just because it reminded me of OS/2 and was similarly all work, no gay.
 
2013-02-26 02:21:25 AM

fisker: sendtodave: It doesn't what?

Restrict you.


Ah.

I thought it didn't funny.
 
2013-02-26 02:22:03 AM

Valiente: President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.

True dat. I still run a tower with a couple of PIIIs and mere gig of RAM under Windows 2000, just because it reminded me of OS/2 and was similarly all work, no gay.


I ran 2000 Advanced Server until 2010. All business, man.
 
2013-02-26 02:22:35 AM
I was stuck with 8 on my new laptop.  I hated it and was almost instantly stripping out as much as I could to get back to what was familiar.

One feature that helped me "get over it" was pinning programs to the taskbar.  I started doing that in 7 and loved it, and that single feature remaining in 8 eliminated a major complaint.  I guess I'll be screwed in Win10 when they remove it. (They have to, it's just about the only way they can fark up the OS more.)

I had to re-learn several features I had used often, which was a pain.  What's worse was relearning them with NOTHING to show me how, no intuitive feel to doing the task.

The metro UI is a joke on anything without a touch screen, and I'm glad to have a means to dismiss it.

The unAero-light looking windows is a bit of a turnoff, too.

I'd downgrade, but the laptop model uses parts that have no drivers for Win7.  Assholes.
 
2013-02-26 02:38:30 AM

ausfahrk: Beowoolfie: President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.

Make that AmigaDos 1.2.

1.2 still shat itself if you dragged the trashcan icon into the trashcan window.


THAT WAS A FEATURE!!!!!
 
2013-02-26 04:25:31 AM
I've not used 8, but it sounds like most complaints have to do with the user interface, not the actual OS being a piece of shiat (ie: M.E.).

So, I'll wait until the next windows.
 
2013-02-26 04:51:41 AM

puffy999: I've not used 8, but it sounds like most complaints have to do with the user interface, not the actual OS being a piece of shiat (ie: M.E.).

So, I'll wait until the next windows.


Well, let's put my hate of Vista and 8 into perspective.  I used ME for several years and enjoyed using it.

Go ahead, have a seat, drink some water.  Re-read it to make sure.  It's natural to shudder.  Here's a paper bag to breathe into.

It's ok.  You'll be fine.  Just breathe.

/I call it masochist edition.
 
2013-02-26 05:14:28 AM

fisker: I think that that is the core of the argument against Windows 8 and it's easy to say that it sucks because every other OS Microsoft has released sucked. You have that going for you. USE THAT when telling people you think it sucks. It's working, too. Sad.

It's easy to say it's designed for a tablet. It's easy to say it doesn't have a start menu. (Which it does but people are farking retarded.)

These the best and only arguments you will hear. They are bullshiat arguments.


As someone who made the transition EVERY FARKING TIME (Win 98, Win 2K, Win XP, Vista, 7), this is not the problem with 8. It's not just "I like the last version better" reflex. I even preferred Vista to XP (once the PCs got fast enough).

Windows 8 broke 15 years of UI memory and experience. People get used to how things work. Their brain gets tuned into them, and they master them. My Start Menu is tweaked to my own needs. It's not just a list of programs, it's ordered by program type, specifically to improve my performance. Having to jump over to a screen with no nesting of functions is NOT a productivity improvement.

And giving me full screen apps opening when I open an image is breaking 15 years of the default functionality. How do I move this? Minimise it? Oh, I can park it on some sidebar thing? Let me see... no. I'll find a 3rd party image viewer/PDF viewer/music player that works how my brain is used to working, so I'm using the PC for what I want rather than having to waste time learning things or fighting it.
 
2013-02-26 06:11:45 AM
Hmmm...still no complaints here:

www.basicconfig.com
 
2013-02-26 06:13:43 AM

Hawnkee: Hmmm...still no complaints here:

[www.basicconfig.com image 471x241]


I'm just impressed Lynx renders well enough for you to be able to post that.
 
2013-02-26 06:32:23 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: zarberg: 6 Ways to avoid the Metro Interface in Win 8

1 easy way. You can still get a new computer that runs Windows 7.




Or, even better, OS X.
 
2013-02-26 06:35:21 AM
With the advertisemnt showing only the moving icons that seem tailored to the modern ADHD customer, they have managed to convince me to never even try it.
 
2013-02-26 06:38:26 AM

Beowoolfie: ausfahrk: Beowoolfie: President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.

Make that AmigaDos 1.2.

1.2 still shat itself if you dragged the trashcan icon into the trashcan window.

THAT WAS A FEATURE!!!!!


AmigaOS 1.2 didn't accept the external HD controller on an A500. 1.3 did and was one of the best OSes I ever used. Actually, up to Amiga OS 3.1, they were all quite good. And then I traded "up" from Amiga OS3.1 to Win98 I think. That was "great"
 
2013-02-26 06:42:25 AM

BumpInTheNight: Hawnkee: Hmmm...still no complaints here:

[www.basicconfig.com image 471x241]

I'm just impressed Lynx renders well enough for you to be able to post that.


I was going to say something snarky, but I can't beat this.
 
2013-02-26 07:28:11 AM

Karac: xria: Yeah, install Shell Classic or whatever, and applications to take over the various inbuilt Modern UI (like a pdf viewer, etc.), and you forget you have even changed - been using it for a few months for work and haven't had any issues once I took the plunge and installed a third party mod to de-Metro it.

Windows 8 isn't crap because you used a third-party program to decrapify it.

Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that the OS isn't the important part of computers - it's the programs the OS runs.  It's the difference between a plate and the food you eat off of it.  Windows 8 is the equivalent of taking peoples forks away and telling them they'll have so much of a better experience using chopsticks.

Your solution is to go buy plastic utensils at the grocery store.


Bravo.  The mental gymnastics it must take to buy into the alternative - that it's perfectly acceptable to need to decrapify (perfect "word" - thank you for that) your OS in order to make it work just as well as the perfectly workable previous OS - is astonishing.  I mean, it really is.  Such skill at rationalization must take a cognitive dissonance on the order of believing UFOs are shooting asteroids out of the sky before they harm the Earth.

Geeks:  you are now the vast minority of computer users.  The days when geeks ruled the computer world are over, forever and ever.  To the average user, the notion that it's acceptable to buy a sub-standard product and bring it up to speed with tweaks is bizarre, absolutely and utterly bizarre.  If you want to continue to refuse to change your perspective, that's your prerogative, but you risk becoming increasingly irrelevant and obsolete.  I don't say all this condescendingly - I'm one of you.  This applies to me too.  The difference is, I'm making those perspective changes.  When I watch those of you being left in the dust, I can't help but wonder what you're thinking.  Aren't we the smart ones?  Or are some smart people just too "smart" to adapt?

I'm sitting next to a guy right now, at work (heh), who still thinks that whole mobile thing is just a fad.  I mean, he really, really believes that.  It's like missing the advent of the gas-powered automobile or the television.  Windows 8 - I mean, you've got to be kidding if you think it's "just fine" because you can tweak it to your low standards of acceptance.  The days of needing to tweak software, and being proud that you have the knowledge to do it, are over.

This isn't a Microsoft versus Apple versus Whoever thing, this is just basic common sense and observation of the changing computing landscape.  These days, software should "just work" and it should just do it elegantly.  Anything less is falling short of the modern standard - period.  This is a good thing, not a bad thing.  Get on board, or get left behind.  Your choice.
 
2013-02-26 08:14:40 AM

1000 Ways to Dye: Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that PC desktop and laptop sales were already slowing before Windows 8 even came out?

Also: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

Remember how much hate XP got when it came out? "I"m never leaving '98 or Win2k" is what people said. Some are still crying over its demise.


When XP came out there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth about online activation, and the reactivation needed if making too many hardware changes, etc. There was lots of noise about how people would never upgrade from Win98 and/or Win2k and that Microsoft had signed its death warrant by such an invasion of privacy, etc., etc.
 
2013-02-26 08:51:02 AM

yukichigai: Saiga410: yukichigai: it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it"

I have yet had a chance to play with Win8.  This is really what is expected in destop mode?

There's no "start button" to get the Start Screen.  Instead you're expected to cram your mouse over to the bottom-left corner, which will then produce something you can click.  The charms bar, which holds the Control Panel-esque functions, is over in the right side of the screen.

Desktop apps don't have to be closed with click and drag, thank God, but Metro apps do.  The login screen also requires you to click the little banner thing and then drag it down to reveal the login prompt, etc. etc. etc.  Little to none of this can be disabled.


"Cramming" the mouse? It's in the same spot the button was, almost. The keyboard start key still works and is better to use anyways since you can use it and start typing your application name just like in Win7.

To close metro apps: move to the upper right corner of the screen and drag down a second to open the task switcher. You can right click and close them there.

Control panel is in the start screen as well. Just type it's name out and it'll show up.

You don't need to click and drag at the login screen at all. Just start typing and the login screen comes up automatically.

The interface definitely has quirks but lots of people are overblowing its small issues because they hate change or are perfectly happy with Win7 (which is the more likely explanation for the low adoption.)

/WinKey + X and WinKey + D are your best friends in 8
 
2013-02-26 08:51:57 AM
I just got my tax refund, and used it to buy a brand new computer.

I took a bit of searching, but I did manage to find one that runs Windows 7. That's what I ordered.

/Not messing around with Metro, if it can be avoided.
 
2013-02-26 09:36:00 AM

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


For the common user, Metro IS Windows 8 - thus all the hate.
 
2013-02-26 09:41:13 AM

UnspokenVoice: AdamK: ever since XP you're basically better off only buying every other windows release

95
98se
XP
7
9?

The trend is longer than you think. Skipping 98, ME, and Vista were good choices.


you forgot about windows 2000
 
2013-02-26 10:14:28 AM

AdamK: UnspokenVoice: AdamK: ever since XP you're basically better off only buying every other windows release

95
98se
XP
7
9?

The trend is longer than you think. Skipping 98, ME, and Vista were good choices.

you forgot about windows 2000


The good versions of DOS based Windows were Windows 3.11, 95 OSR2, and 98SE. Those could only be called good if you rebooted them very regularly, because they tended to shiat themselves if you left them running more than a day or two.

I switched to NT 4 which was pretty astonishingly stable for the time, but had hefty hardware requirements for the time.

Windows 2000 is still the best version upgrade Microsoft has ever done of an OS. They changed pretty much everything from top to bottom and that shiat just worked, right from the start. It was the first time you could do something normal, like plug in a USB mouse and have the damn thing work without having to reboot the whole computer.

I don't think it's any coincidence that 2000 was the last version of NT that shipped under the leadership of Dave Cutler, the original father of Windows NT.

As far as being able to introduce major changes without farking things up goes, it's been downhill since. Longhorn was such an abortion that it had to be thrown away, and then Vista shiat the bed as well.
 
2013-02-26 11:21:43 AM

mokinokaro: yukichigai: Saiga410: yukichigai: it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it"

I have yet had a chance to play with Win8.  This is really what is expected in destop mode?

There's no "start button" to get the Start Screen.  Instead you're expected to cram your mouse over to the bottom-left corner, which will then produce something you can click.  The charms bar, which holds the Control Panel-esque functions, is over in the right side of the screen.

Desktop apps don't have to be closed with click and drag, thank God, but Metro apps do.  The login screen also requires you to click the little banner thing and then drag it down to reveal the login prompt, etc. etc. etc.  Little to none of this can be disabled.

"Cramming" the mouse? It's in the same spot the button was, almost. The keyboard start key still works and is better to use anyways since you can use it and start typing your application name just like in Win7.

To close metro apps: move to the upper right corner of the screen and drag down a second to open the task switcher. You can right click and close them there.

Control panel is in the start screen as well. Just type it's name out and it'll show up.

You don't need to click and drag at the login screen at all. Just start typing and the login screen comes up automatically.

The interface definitely has quirks but lots of people are overblowing its small issues because they hate change or are perfectly happy with Win7 (which is the more likely explanation for the low adoption.)

/WinKey + X and WinKey + D are your best friends in 8


On the demo units that I've played with, just simply pressing and releasing the Windows key brings me to the desktop.

/also doesn't get the rage
//you have a lot of information at your fingertips for the more common things you might do or see (think: twitter/fb feeds) while having a desktop a button away.
 
2013-02-26 11:29:49 AM
theurge14:
What's terribly jarring and a large point is the two-color icons in Windows 8 which make it difficult to tell what something is without reading the caption (making the icon rather pointless), the lack of any visual cue as to tell what is clickable and what is a label (in the old days of web browsers underlines blue text indicated a clickable hyperlink), and what others are calling low information density, something I noticed when I opened the Metro version of Internet Explorer for the first time (and yes I find it also troubling that  there are two different IE UIs, one in Desktop and one from the main tile).  The old IE would show toolbars and menus with information, the Metro one shows a single bar to type in and four monochrome icons with no caption.  I see what they're trying to do, but man are they going about it the wrong way.

So you hate all mobile browsers on all platforms, and an increasing amount on the desktop?

Last time I checked, most recent browsers are have monochrome buttons, no labels, and no toolbars.
 
2013-02-26 01:38:19 PM

fisker: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."

Wrong.


How do you bring up the Charms bar?
 
2013-02-26 02:21:27 PM

SleepingEye: theurge14:
What's terribly jarring and a large point is the two-color icons in Windows 8 which make it difficult to tell what something is without reading the caption (making the icon rather pointless), the lack of any visual cue as to tell what is clickable and what is a label (in the old days of web browsers underlines blue text indicated a clickable hyperlink), and what others are calling low information density, something I noticed when I opened the Metro version of Internet Explorer for the first time (and yes I find it also troubling that  there are two different IE UIs, one in Desktop and one from the main tile).  The old IE would show toolbars and menus with information, the Metro one shows a single bar to type in and four monochrome icons with no caption.  I see what they're trying to do, but man are they going about it the wrong way.

So you hate all mobile browsers on all platforms, and an increasing amount on the desktop?

Last time I checked, most recent browsers are have monochrome buttons, no labels, and no toolbars.


27" screen != 4.5" screen
 
2013-02-26 02:32:44 PM

theurge14: SleepingEye: theurge14:
What's terribly jarring and a large point is the two-color icons in Windows 8 which make it difficult to tell what something is without reading the caption (making the icon rather pointless), the lack of any visual cue as to tell what is clickable and what is a label (in the old days of web browsers underlines blue text indicated a clickable hyperlink), and what others are calling low information density, something I noticed when I opened the Metro version of Internet Explorer for the first time (and yes I find it also troubling that  there are two different IE UIs, one in Desktop and one from the main tile).  The old IE would show toolbars and menus with information, the Metro one shows a single bar to type in and four monochrome icons with no caption.  I see what they're trying to do, but man are they going about it the wrong way.

So you hate all mobile browsers on all platforms, and an increasing amount on the desktop?

Last time I checked, most recent browsers are have monochrome buttons, no labels, and no toolbars.

27" screen != 4.5" screen


And that's what Microsoft doesn't seem to understand.
 
2013-02-26 02:54:15 PM

neuroflare: Gabe


The fact it doesn't support WinTab blows. Sketchbook pro is okay, I guess, but AI and PS are what I use. I wanted a pro as a cheap, portable cintique. Too bad it only works with toy art programs.I do hope they fix it. I'd love a 12-13" surface pro with photoshop.
 
2013-02-26 03:19:27 PM

kitsuneymg: neuroflare: Gabe

The fact it doesn't support WinTab blows. Sketchbook pro is okay, I guess, but AI and PS are what I use. I wanted a pro as a cheap, portable cintique. Too bad it only works with toy art programs.I do hope they fix it. I'd love a 12-13" surface pro with photoshop.


From what Krahulik said it was a problem with PS not supporting the pressure sensitivity, presumably they would fix that in the near future.
 
2013-02-26 03:50:44 PM
But why do we even need two UI's?

Giving users the option to delete the whole Metro thing from their systems would be a good first step.
 
2013-02-26 04:25:34 PM

HeartBurnKid: fisker: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."

Wrong.

How do you bring up the Charms bar?


Either corner on the right or windows key + C
 
2013-02-26 04:26:47 PM

Old enough to know better: But why do we even need two UI's?

Giving users the option to delete the whole Metro thing from their systems would be a good first step.


Think of one as your start menu
 
2013-02-26 05:00:53 PM

Old enough to know better: But why do we even need two UI's?

Giving users the option to delete the whole Metro thing from their systems would be a good first step.


Microsoft wants to move users into a walled garden of apps bought from a Microsoft certified app store.

Of course, for desktop PCs, it would have been a simple matter to place Metro apps into actual Windows, framed with control buttons to handle the functionality reserved for gestures, but that's apparently too obvious. I imagine Win8 would be selling briskly if they had done that, instead of forcing Metro on the user.

As I said before, they did not need to get rid of the Start Button, yet they did. I believe the functionality is still available, with some obscure key combo, but I could be mistaken.
 
2013-02-26 06:24:22 PM

mokinokaro: HeartBurnKid: fisker: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."

Wrong.

How do you bring up the Charms bar?

Either corner on the right or windows key + C


You mean the "completely unmarked portion of the screen" in either corner on the right?  Because you're not exactly proving the guy wrong.
 
2013-02-26 06:37:09 PM

HeartBurnKid: mokinokaro: HeartBurnKid: fisker: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."

Wrong.

How do you bring up the Charms bar?

Either corner on the right or windows key + C

You mean the "completely unmarked portion of the screen" in either corner on the right?  Because you're not exactly proving the guy wrong.


As they add more functionality, Microsoft will create more "hover areas" on the screen. For developers, that means we should pay particular attention to the well-thought, extensive documentation on where NOT to put anything that might interfere.

Also, stop swiping your mouse across the screen, silly users! PICK UP your mouse pointer as you drag it around, to prevent the superior gesture-based command system from activating due to your clumsy moves.
 
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