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(The Register)   Windows 8 is now so unpopular with PC users that it's actually dragging down the value of new computers by $100   (theregister.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Fail, PC users, Windows, Best Buy, the Reg, Microsoft Tablet PC, computers, touch screens  
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8226 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Feb 2013 at 2:30 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-25 04:55:40 PM  

Beta Tested: yukichigai: Dual-monitor user, so I frequently make use of "Fullscreen Windowed" mode so I can leave something open on the other monitor and access it, say a guide or a forum post or even just my chat window.  Even in normal Fullscreen mode though I've noticed that quite a few games seem to let the cursor wander invisibly when I'm controlling the game, so certain things will highlight when the invisible cursor is over them.  Clicks and such are redirected though, so it's never been an issue, but with a system that does things based solely on where your cursor IS, not where you click....

Out of curiosity, what games are you playing?  The most notable offenders I find are Gamebryo games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, New Vegas, etc., or even Borderlands 2 and a few others.

I play all of those, but not in borderless mode.  The mouse skipping off isn't an OS thing, it is the executable that governs mouse behavior in different environments.  If you run game borderless with multiple monitors you are going to get some strange behavior with the cursor, I can't think of a way around it.  Borderlands 2 is Unreal.  I've never had issues with any of them.


None of those are being played in bordleress mode save for Borderlands 2.  Gamebryo games don't have "Fullscreen Windowed".

Of course the real issue is that "Fullscree Windowed" is a relatively new feature meant to provide more convenience to gamers.  Now because of how Windows 8 works, the feature will instead cause problems.  Game companies innovate, Windows f%$#s it up.

MrSteve007: Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.


It would make sense if their UI was equally useable for everyone's input methods.  The UI they're betting on is whiz-bang awesome for touch-input methods but awkward for keyboard+mouse.  The only way that would be viable is if keyboard+mouse stopped being relevant, and if you've looked at any gaming setup or office desktop in the last, well, EVER, you know that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Beta Tested: yukichigai: I'm bolding the two parts here where you contradicted yourself and completely missed the point I was trying to make.

If everyone missed your point then you didn't make it very well.  Now, it can be hard to follow things in a busy thread since it is like having a conversation in a loud room, and I complete lost your point since you were responding in one liners.  It helps to explain a bit first.

He was probably intimating that after you pin something you never have to type to get there again, and he probably pins commonly used items.  And, in fact, you can access everything without typing at all to pin stuff (click all apps).  Although better and faster searching is one of the good things about Win8 and the new start menu, so I don't know why you wouldn't use it.

You also picked a poor example by calling out the command prompt, which is easily accessed without leaving the desktop the the run screen.  That led to further confusion, you would have been better off picking something you'd normally go to the start menu for.

And I apologize for calling you a troll.

 
2013-02-25 04:56:21 PM  
Erm, I meant to reply with "alright, fair enough.  Sorry I went high-order there too".  But then Fark ate it so... yay?
 
2013-02-25 04:57:47 PM  
So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.
 
2013-02-25 05:00:40 PM  

Windows 8 is schizophrenic. You have the "metro" world and the 99.8% of your software that isn't metro aware you get pushed to the "classic" view. So wtf is the point of the metro start. Not to mention the ass ugly tiles. Does anyone like that? Do they like it on the xbox where most of the screen is taken up by these boxes pushes ads while you try and find where your goddamn game list is.


I tried using it. I removed all the metro gunk, set up my software in the metro tiles only to have to swoosh over the classic anyway. I do spend a lot of time in file management on the desktop and its file i/o reminds me of Vista pre-sp1. Horribly slow in various scenarios. For example I try and open a .rar file with WinRAR from my NAS only to wait 20+ seconds for something that should be instantaneous.  So, now I have to start looking for software that probably has to be rewritten because MS changed or removed some api's.


Why bother struggling with an OS that ought to be transparent to your actual use of the computer?  There is good news however, Windows 9 comes out in a few months! So when it comes to Windows 8: Pass.

 
2013-02-25 05:02:22 PM  

MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely


I find it interesting how the author had to put the "I'm no fanboy or hater" disclaimer at the bottom when the article was merely constructive criticism.
 
2013-02-25 05:02:57 PM  

ZeroCorpse: When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button.


That word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Also, I'm a pretty hard core PC gamer and I haven't noticed any speed improvement in games at all.  They don't load any faster, and they already ran pretty well to begin with.

Also, I had to add the Start Button back because, as I noted upthread, hot corners are a nightmare if you have multiple monitors.
 
2013-02-25 05:04:28 PM  

ZeroCorpse: People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.


You mean the place you are immediately dumped into after starting the computer isn't the primary method of input? That seems like an odd design choice.

but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all

Well, unless you apply third party hacks or start editing the registry, yeah you do. As mentioned, it's the place you are brought to every time to login.
 
2013-02-25 05:04:50 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: theurge14: Marcus Aurelius:
They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.

I'm no market analyst but I can tell from Photoshops I've seen of PC sales charts that twin-monitor desktops are not what is selling, and not their "base".  I'm also kinda bad at basic math without using a calculator but I'm pretty sure 99% is a bullshiat number pulled out of the butt of a brontosaurus in bullshiat land.

All my numbers are based on a vast sample of over 7 different people, so I don't know how you can say that.  I'm hurt.


Like I said, basic math usually eludes me so it's my bad.  I don't know where the brontosaurus butt comment came from so I'm a little bit worried about what that says about me.
 
2013-02-25 05:05:14 PM  
Usually FUD campaigns like the one that's been directed at W8 are secretly bankrolled by a competitor. W8 works perfectly as it's designed, and if you don't like the way it's designed, there are ways to change it that only require a modest level of computer savvy. It's not even close to being like ME.

I wonder how many negative reviews have been bought by Apple.
 
2013-02-25 05:05:51 PM  

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.


That's pretty much what's been driving me up the wall about this.  I'm not attached to Win8, but I hate to see people spew uninformed nonsense about a perfectly good OS.  It's got a lot of features and customization that's made things a lot faster for me, but otherwise it's just a faster Windows 7.
 
2013-02-25 05:07:08 PM  

theurge14: I find it interesting how the author had to put the "I'm no fanboy or hater" disclaimer at the bottom when the article was merely constructive criticism.


Probably because the author typically sees similar comments like in this thread such as:

You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8

Disliking a design choice CLEARLY means you are working for someone else unless you declare it not true. And even then we must be suspicious...
 
2013-02-25 05:07:10 PM  

MrSteve007: soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.

That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.


On paper it sounds like a good idea, but in practice it's shown not to be that simple.  I think this may be another example of the classic case of making things easier on developers at the expense of the users.
 
2013-02-25 05:07:48 PM  

fluffy2097: It's also clear at a glance what each item on that menu is, making it faster. I'm sorry it doesn't have curved edges and gradients.


In order to determine whether or not it is "faster" you would have to do end user tests. I wonder how "fast" giving equal weight/size to icons that represent seldom used applications really is. Once you have a LOT of applications on your computer your real increase in efficiency would come from categorizing and prioritizing your menu items. Does the Windows 8 UI allow you to organize your start menu, change the icon colors, change the size of the icons, in order to promote a rational organization of the displayed choices? Because without being able to do that the menu begins to look like a dog's breakfast.

I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling. Of course, if Microsoft's goal was to make a product that many users find annoying AND ugly at the same time they have succeeded. What makes sense for a tablet or phone with small screens and fat fingers looks like crap on a large desktop display. You may not care if it looks good, but I, and a lot of other people, do care.
 
2013-02-25 05:12:26 PM  
ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.
 
2013-02-25 05:13:23 PM  

Rwa2play: MrSteve007: soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.

That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.

No offense but...hasn't Apple already accomplished this with their OS on both their Mac and their IDevices?


Well, yes and no.  Yes, Apple has already made an effort to unify the UI between the Mac and iOS devices, and No they still kept them distinct.  For example, in Snow Leopard they introduced a side-swiping Applications window on the Dock that mimicked the home screen of the iPhone.  Instead of making it the default home screen on the Mac, they made it an icon on the Dock you can click into and use optionally.  Is this the right approach?  I don't know what their user studies show them but I imagine taking an extreme like forcing a new desktop paradigm without checking into that is probably not a good idea.
 
2013-02-25 05:16:00 PM  

red5ish: I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling.


Speak for yourself. Personally I think the OSX-style "make everything look like faux glass and chrome" look is hideous and horribly dated. I'm looking at little blobs of light on a screen. I don't need to pretend those blobs of light are physical materials, geometric shapes and minimalist colors are exactly what I want. I'd have the GUI in monochrome if I could.

As long as the stupid live tiles are turned off.
 
2013-02-25 05:17:09 PM  

swaxhog: Windows 8 is schizophrenic. You have the "metro" world and the 99.8% of your software that isn't metro aware you get pushed to the "classic" view. So wtf is the point of the metro start. Not to mention the ass ugly tiles. Does anyone like that? Do they like it on the xbox where most of the screen is taken up by these boxes pushes ads while you try and find where your goddamn game list is.


Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet.  I then realized that I play games on a tabloid.  :(
 
2013-02-25 05:18:40 PM  

Lsherm: Also, I'm a pretty hard core PC gamer and I haven't noticed any speed improvement in games at all.  They don't load any faster, and they already ran pretty well to begin with.


Most benchmarks done comparing Win7 to Win8 have noted a modest improvement in performance.  It's consistent but not huge.  Average is about 3-8 frames per second.  If you already have >30 frames per second, it's pretty much not noticible.  But it's there.
 
2013-02-25 05:22:07 PM  

Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.


So, the guy is wrong about multiple windows being unsupported even if you're confined to the Metro environment.

But I'm the dumbass nobody and he's Jakob Nielson, which means I'm wrong according to some.
 
2013-02-25 05:23:15 PM  

Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.


Yeah, that's not really much better.  It certainly feels clunky as hell.
 
2013-02-25 05:23:37 PM  
One other thing I can't figure out for the life of me is my wifi randomly slows down to almost non existent in spite of the display indicating I have a very strong signal (i'm 5 feet from the router). Didn't have this issue with my old windows 7 laptop, but I definitely noticed it with this new machine. Sometimes I can't even pull up speedtest because the connection runs so slow it times out. Anyone else have this issue? I've so far tried a number of things from changing channels etc to some more harebrained settings changes all to no avail.
 
2013-02-25 05:24:38 PM  

yukichigai: Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.

Yeah, that's not really much better.  It certainly feels clunky as hell.


Then stick to regular windows programs within the desktop environment and don't use Metro Apps that you're in no way obligated to use?
 
2013-02-25 05:25:07 PM  

theurge14: Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet. I then realized that I play games on a tabloid. :(


I saw that on the main tab, but not the games tab. . . 

That said, the emphasis on live content is due to the fact that more people use their Xbox to view video entertainment content than play video games.

For people like me, who have no satellite, antenna, or cable TV, being able to watch live events on Xbox is pretty nice.
 
2013-02-25 05:27:52 PM  
Seriously?  Nobody has posted this yet?

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-25 05:30:02 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: One other thing I can't figure out for the life of me is my wifi randomly slows down to almost non existent in spite of the display indicating I have a very strong signal (i'm 5 feet from the router). Didn't have this issue with my old windows 7 laptop, but I definitely noticed it with this new machine. Sometimes I can't even pull up speedtest because the connection runs so slow it times out. Anyone else have this issue? I've so far tried a number of things from changing channels etc to some more harebrained settings changes all to no avail.


Have you run Windows Update in the last couple weeks?  When I got my laptop about a month or so ago, a few people with the same model complained on Amazon about this.  Turns out, according to them, it was easily fixed by running Windows Update and installing all the important updates and updated drivers.
 
2013-02-25 05:30:11 PM  
Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: red5ish: I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling.

Speak for yourself. Personally I think the OSX-style "make everything look like faux glass and chrome" look is hideous and horribly dated. I'm looking at little blobs of light on a screen. I don't need to pretend those blobs of light are physical materials, geometric shapes and minimalist colors are exactly what I want. I'd have the GUI in monochrome if I could.

The windows in OSX have been a flat grey gradient since 10.5.  I think you mean the Dock they introduced in 10.6 which reflects the window contents above it.  I'm not a big fan of it myself and I could do without it, but I consider it a small point since it's not terribly jarring and it's only in the Dock.

What's terribly jarring and a large point is the two-color icons in Windows 8 which make it difficult to tell what something is without reading the caption (making the icon rather pointless), the lack of any visual cue as to tell what is clickable and what is a label (in the old days of web browsers underlines blue text indicated a clickable hyperlink), and what others are calling low information density, something I noticed when I opened the Metro version of Internet Explorer for the first time (and yes I find it also troubling that  there are two different IE UIs, one in Desktop and one from the main tile).  The old IE would show toolbars and menus with information, the Metro one shows a single bar to type in and four monochrome icons with no caption.  I see what they're trying to do, but man are they going about it the wrong way.
 
2013-02-25 05:32:52 PM  

MrSteve007: theurge14: Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet. I then realized that I play games on a tabloid. :(

I saw that on the main tab, but not the games tab. . . 

That said, the emphasis on live content is due to the fact that more people use their Xbox to view video entertainment content than play video games.

For people like me, who have no satellite, antenna, or cable TV, being able to watch live events on Xbox is pretty nice.


My bad, it was the main tab.  I only play games on it.  My TV already has Netflix and Hulu.  But I understand.  I wish there was a way to rearrange all that stuff.
 
2013-02-25 05:34:01 PM  
and to think they could have avoided all of this if they'd just left a 'switch to classic mode/gimmie mah start button you asshole!' option.  Sorry people push it off as trivial but its not, its really not and its costing them dearly.  Too bad.
 
2013-02-25 05:34:08 PM  
img543.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-25 05:34:39 PM  
I do find Metro to be a minor annoyance on my desktop. Not so much so that I would nerdrage about it but it is somewhat disjoint from the rest of the UI.

That being said, I can postulate as to why they're pushing Metro so hard: their market share in tablets and touchscreen devices is miniscule. In order to get developers to make touchscreen apps, they need it to be the main interface even for big Windows on desktop.

I honestly don't mind. Like I said, it's a minor annoyance for desktop but as a media PC, metro is a fantastic interface. Ditto for a touchscreen desktop.
 
2013-02-25 05:38:53 PM  

ColdFusion: Communist_Manifesto: One other thing I can't figure out for the life of me is my wifi randomly slows down to almost non existent in spite of the display indicating I have a very strong signal (i'm 5 feet from the router). Didn't have this issue with my old windows 7 laptop, but I definitely noticed it with this new machine. Sometimes I can't even pull up speedtest because the connection runs so slow it times out. Anyone else have this issue? I've so far tried a number of things from changing channels etc to some more harebrained settings changes all to no avail.

Have you run Windows Update in the last couple weeks?  When I got my laptop about a month or so ago, a few people with the same model complained on Amazon about this.  Turns out, according to them, it was easily fixed by running Windows Update and installing all the important updates and updated drivers.


Yep :( I think that was one of the first things I tried. It's starting to drive me insane. My girlfriends computer doesn't have the issue, her tablet doesn't have the issue, my tablet doesn't do it AND my cell phone doesn't slow down. So far all of my googles have returned things that purportedly fix the problem but nothing does.
 
2013-02-25 05:39:34 PM  

ColdFusion: yukichigai: Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.

Yeah, that's not really much better.  It certainly feels clunky as hell.

Then stick to regular windows programs within the desktop environment and don't use Metro Apps that you're in no way obligated to use?


Well yes, obviously.  It does make me wonder though how they intend to get people to use these new Metro Apps if they're not only awkward for desktop users, but they make the entire experience awkward when they're running at all.
 
2013-02-25 05:39:41 PM  

vudutek: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

Agreed. Win8 runs smoother than most MS crap they've put out in years, it's just a pain to navigate around the Metro crap. I can ALMOST understand them trying to standardize an interface between phone / tablet / desktop. but the bottom line is that it just doesn't work.I neither expect nor want my desktop to behave the same as my phone. Even if I did, I'd probably prefer Android as a base instead of MS.

Solkar: Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.

Me either. Metro sucks balls, but otherwise no real complaints.


The problem is when you're dealing in an enterprise environment the UI change is a real challenge for the less technical and the helpdesk has to spend more resources (read: time and money) on handholding employees who are less comfortable exploring on their own. This has an impact on P&L that MS is not taking into account.
 
2013-02-25 05:41:37 PM  

MrSteve007: They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?


Most retailers can charge  more for things people prefer to use. Why do you think they can't charge more for these machines?
 
2013-02-25 05:48:13 PM  

President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.


Unix is also a great OS.  Does not change the fact that interfacing with both Unix and Windows 8 leaves much to be desired.  Windows 95 had a much more intuitive interface than 8.
 
2013-02-25 05:51:47 PM  

xaveth: Wait... why did we need Windows 8 again? What was wrong with Windows 7?


THIS! SO MUCH THIS!

I still use XP and I see no reason to waste more of my $$ for something I don't need.
 
2013-02-25 05:52:07 PM  
Gawd i miss Windows!


NOT
 
2013-02-25 05:54:17 PM  

theurge14: MrSteve007: theurge14: Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet. I then realized that I play games on a tabloid. :(

I saw that on the main tab, but not the games tab. . . 

That said, the emphasis on live content is due to the fact that more people use their Xbox to view video entertainment content than play video games.

For people like me, who have no satellite, antenna, or cable TV, being able to watch live events on Xbox is pretty nice.

My bad, it was the main tab.  I only play games on it.  My TV already has Netflix and Hulu.  But I understand.  I wish there was a way to rearrange all that stuff.


Yeah, or at least target it better if it's going to be that invasive.  I really could give a flying crap about who won what at which multi-billion-dollar annual low-IQ popularity contest when I want to get to cutting zombies in half with a chainsaw.

Mind you, the tiles on the Xbox are at least the kind of setup that lends itself towards that kind of thing.  There's only going to be so many options in there, that number isn't going to change except by 1-3, and it all fits on each tabbed screen quite nicely.  I did like the old interface better but I don't actively hate Metro on the Xbox now.
 
2013-02-25 05:54:32 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

I like Win8. But I installed a start menu replacement, so I never see the metro crap and I have my start button back again.

What kills me are Win8 white nights who constantly tell people that they can do the same things they did before, but a different way. Most people, myself included, already know how to do things fast and don't
need or want a different way.



its Monopoly$oft's way or the highway.

or

you could just install Linux Mint 14 with the Mate desktop and be done with redmond.
 
2013-02-25 05:55:53 PM  

sinanju: Seriously?  Nobody has posted this yet?

[i.imgur.com image 497x373]



Schweet!
 
2013-02-25 05:58:25 PM  

Gunny Walker: mac


what they meant was that you have to be mentally 'touched' to want to use windows, especially 8.

i was a big fan of XP until i tried Linux.  have never wanted to go back once i realized what i had been missing.  it was like getting my computer back and getting out of my way (once i learned the basics, which is still point and click)
 
2013-02-25 05:59:20 PM  

fluffy2097: mongbiohazard: I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.

Have you checked your power management settings? Sandy bridge processors clock down to like 1.6ghz when idle to save power, and if your power management is enabled, lots of things will never trigger the processor to step up to it's full speed.

Make sure all that shiat is turned off.


Thanks for the tip. I'll check that when I get home tonight to be safe, but I'm pretty certain that isn't it. All my power management stuff should already pretty much be set to "it's a desktop - use all the electrons with greed". It's one of the first things I tweak.

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.



I like Mac hardware, but I despise the Mac OS with the burning passion of a thousand suns - so I'm no Mac fanboy. I've been using Windows 8 for a few weeks now.... and it's noticeably slower than Windows 7 was on the exact same hardware. There's a short but noticeable delay now when I so much as open a folder, and that delay was not there under 7. My games don't run any better, if anything I've noticed a few more stutters here and there than before, and Skyrim just won't run for more than a few seconds any more, but generally speaking with my hardware I don't lack for power to run games anyway, so there isn't a huge difference.

But the basic GUI functions being noticeably slower on the same hardware is irking me quite a bit. I run an i5 with 16 gigs of RAM and a 560Ti OC video card... there's no way the GUI should be anything but instantly responsive with no programs running. It was under 7.... it's not under 8. Sorry, but that's the honest truth of the experience I'm having. This is probably going to make me downgrade back to 7.

And Metro is horribad on a desktop PC. I'm guessing I'd probably like it just fine on a tablet, but that's not what I'm using it on. It didn't take me long of using the Metro interface before I hid it and never wanted to see it on my machine again.

So if history teaches us anything I'm betting Windows 9 is going to be fantastic.
 
2013-02-25 06:04:08 PM  
Windows 8 is a fascist OS with a metrosexual UI.
 
2013-02-25 06:09:59 PM  

ColdFusion: But I'm the dumbass nobody and he's Jakob Nielson, which means I'm wrong according to some.


You're reading a lot into my comment that I didn't intend to express. I am not trying to pick a fight or make judgments about you, but I may have written in a way you found offensive and for that I apologize.

Nielsen's report necessarily deals with the version of Windows 8 available at the time the studies were conducted. What he wrote was very probably true about the version he tested. In any event, his statement about multiple windows, while it may now be inaccurate, was mitigated by the statement "none of our test users were able to make this work"  which is more to the point.

Nielsen tests usability, which is different from functionality. The software may be capable of amazing performance (and from everything I've heard Windows 8 is fast and stable) but the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. There is a steep learning curve, involving a lot of memorization, searching the internet for clues, and from the end user's perspective there is little benefit derived from all that effort. How much time does an end user want to invest in 'learning to use' an operating system before the alternative of not adopting the system becomes the more attractive choice? From what I've read there are a lot of people who are 'downgrading' to Windows 7 rather than spending the time to learn Windows 8. As a business decision, IT departments are avoiding implementing Win 8 because the cost lost productivity is seen as prohibitive.
 
2013-02-25 06:21:25 PM  

MrSteve007: What's funny is that the adoption rate of Win 8 appears to be a lot faster than Windows 7, yet people claim it isn't selling well.

Look at any major metric you want, it's proving to be true.

Check the validity of your data.


Look more carefully at the release information.  The official release date for win 7 was July 22 09,  by which point it was almost 1.9 percent.  Whe Windows 8 release date was oct 30, which isn't even on the chart.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you will want to compare the September implementation numbers with the December numbers for win 8  which puts the implementation rate of Windows 7 at 3.2% to Windows 8 at 2.5%.  Also bear in mind that most of those numbers for Windows 8 are forced installs since they come with the new systems, preinstalled.

Win 7
September3.2%August2.5%July1.9%

Win 8
December2.5%NovemberOctober
 
2013-02-25 06:27:22 PM  

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


www.orangeinks.com
 
2013-02-25 06:32:47 PM  
I've decided to skip Win8 because I don't have a touchscreen (my Cintiq doesn't count as it isn't my primary monitor). Win7 64bit is working perfectly well for me and I see no need to add the annoyance of the metro interface to my system. Yeah, I've heard that Win8 is slightly better optimized than Win7, but that isn't enough to justify upgrading any of my machines.
 
2013-02-25 06:42:34 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.

Yeah, HORRIBLE problem, that. God forbid anything should ever change. Or could afford $5 for a utility that brings back that precious start button.


My point was that Windows 8 isn't crap, because the only issue with it is relatively minor. However a $5 utility to restore the start menu is a bad solution.
 
2013-02-25 06:42:53 PM  

mcsmiley: Also bear in mind that most of those numbers for Windows 8 are forced installs since they come with the new systems, preinstalled.


If that's the case, then why wouldn't that also hold true for Win 7?

mcsmiley: Look more carefully at the release information. The official release date for win 7 was July 22 09, by which point it was almost 1.9 percent. Whe Windows 8 release date was oct 30, which isn't even on the chart.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you will want to compare the September implementation numbers with the December numbers for win 8 which puts the implementation rate of Windows 7 at 3.2% to Windows 8 at 2.5%. Also bear in mind that most of those numbers for Windows 8 are forced installs since they come with the new systems, preinstalled.

Win 7
September3.2%August2.5%July1.9%

Win 8
December2.5%NovemberOctober


Why not take it out one more month? Because it very directly shows a faster adoption rate . . . Here, I'll make is really simple to see

Windows 7 - released July 22, 2009
1st month: 1.9% (July, although they're likely including beta installs with this number . . .)
2nd month: 2.5% (Aug)
3rd month 3.2% (Sept)
4th month 4.4% (Oct)

Windows 8 Released Oct 26, 2012
1st month ??? (Oct)
2nd month ??? (Nov)
3rd month 2.5% (Dec)
4th month 4.8% (Jan)

My initial point still stands. Almost all of the metrics shows that Windows 8 adoption (in terms of percentage of overall users) is faster than the much beloved Windows 7.
 
2013-02-25 06:49:23 PM  
lewismarktwo All MS had to do was have an option for the old interface, but no they had to push their new bullshiat on people who don't want it.

Yeah, how hard would it have been to leave the old school menu system in while adding the ribbon.

// ohh wait, that's MS Office :P
 
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