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(Gothamist)   This is how you troll when you're setting up an undercover operation to fine bars for selling liquor to minors. Make sure your 19-year-old operative looks like he's 35   (gothamist.com) divider line 309
    More: Asinine, Mad Dog, John Jay  
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38431 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2013 at 3:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-25 04:04:09 PM  
With make-up the way it is these days, you'd think some clever teens would go 'old man.' We didn't have fancy fake ID's when I was young so I had to get an older friends to hook me up, or (if they weren't around) hang out and troll the liquor store parking lot for people willing to do that, for a huge fee of course.
 
2013-02-25 04:04:30 PM  

scottydoesntknow: mjohnson71: most importantly fight and die for your county
then why can't you have a drink?

Have you ever seen that show "What Would You Do?" They had two actors dressed in military fatigues saying they just got back from Iraq. They walk into a bar and try to order a drink. The bartender flat-out refuses. The test was to see if other patrons would buy them alcohol. Most of them either did, or suggested a place that will sell to underage veterans.


I still bartend part time and am a hard carding motherfarker.

Now nobody is going to come into my place a business in fatigues: but if they obviously look active duty and start pulling out a military ID, I tell them to put it away. I'm limited with what my corporate overlords will permit but as long as the soldier stays in control, their pours are strong and they'll get a few free beers.
 
2013-02-25 04:04:35 PM  

mjohnson71: I've said this before and I'll say this again: the U.S. drinking age of 21 is stupid.

If you can legally do the following at 18:
-vote
-buy a gun
-drive
-sign a legal contract
-get married
-do/buy porn
-most importantly fight and die for your county
then why can't you have a drink?


Because marijuana.
/Also, did I miss pic of the "kid"?

What a minor who looks aged might look like ...
 
2013-02-25 04:05:33 PM  
As for the article, what a bunch of bullshiat.  If they want bars to ID anyone that looks under 40, make that the law.  Otherwise, what's the legal standard, if not how young someone LOOKS?  How is it reasonable to fine a bar for serving someone who looks almost twice the legal age limit?
 
2013-02-25 04:06:30 PM  

carmody: That's how I once got a job at an adult bookstore...the city sent in a bearded 17-year-old to rent a porno DVD (the minimum age requirement here is 18) and the clerk got fired for renting it to him. Cops got nothing better to do, I suppose.


My brother got busted when he was working the front desk at a hotel and the cops sent in a 16 year old to buy cigarettes out of the vending machine in the lobby. My bro didnt even sell the kid the cigarettes. Then the cops tried to recruit him to be the one trying to buy the cigarettes in exchange for dropping the fine. My bro basically told them to fark off out of principle.
 
2013-02-25 04:07:01 PM  
When I was 17, I drank a very good beer.
I drank a very good beer that I purchased with a fake Id.
My name was brian McGee,  I stayed up listening to queen
*sobs* when I was 17,.*sobs*
 
2013-02-25 04:07:19 PM  

the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?


Because of the binge drinking culture. In countries where drinking is not perceived as negative, people were less likely to consume it to a dangerous extent. When people aren't being dangerous about it, there is less need for legal restrictions.

So when it's considered bad, people will drink it like it's naughty. Then they act naughty, and alcohol get's an even worse reputation. It's a vicious cycle.

Here's an interesting article on the cultural aspects of binge drinking:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/02/15/100215fa_fact_gladwell
 
2013-02-25 04:07:32 PM  
I know this term gets misused a lot, so I'm not saying this lightly... I think there might be a case for entrapment here.  From the NY State Code:

In any prosecution for an offense, it is an affirmative defense that the defendant engaged in the proscribed conduct because he was induced or encouraged to do so by a public servant, or by a person acting in cooperation with a public servant, seeking to obtain evidence against him for purpose of criminal prosecution, and when the methods used to obtain such evidence were such as to create a substantial risk that the offense would be committed by a person not otherwise disposed to commit it. Inducement or encouragement to commit an offense means active inducement or encouragement. Conduct merely affording a person an opportunity to commit an offense does not constitute entrapment.

If they send someone that gives the appearance of being over 30, they are creating a substantial risk of inducing a person to serve alcohol to an illegal recipient.  The act of requesting the drink would, I suppose, constitute "active inducement or encouragement".  The physical intimidation factor might play in, but I'd think a bartender would meet a varied enough group to make that not a big inducement.
 
2013-02-25 04:08:09 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: My brother got busted when he was working the front desk at a hotel and the cops sent in a 16 year old to buy cigarettes out of the vending machine in the lobby. My bro didnt even sell the kid the cigarettes. Then the cops tried to recruit him to be the one trying to buy the cigarettes in exchange for dropping the fine. My bro basically told them to fark off out of principle.


They've been doing this crap down here... busting bartenders for letting a minor buy cigs from a machine.  Totally stupid.
 
2013-02-25 04:09:04 PM  
Once again...

To order beer, I have to show an official state-issued form of Identification.

To vote for all levels of government, I simply have to state a name that someone then checks off the list.

Yet people are considered backwards if they suggest IDs should be displayed to vote.
 
2013-02-25 04:09:04 PM  
We have taken several fat ugly teenagers & fooled bar owners into thinking they were of age. That will learn them!!!
 
2013-02-25 04:09:50 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: carmody: That's how I once got a job at an adult bookstore...the city sent in a bearded 17-year-old to rent a porno DVD (the minimum age requirement here is 18) and the clerk got fired for renting it to him. Cops got nothing better to do, I suppose.

My brother got busted when he was working the front desk at a hotel and the cops sent in a 16 year old to buy cigarettes out of the vending machine in the lobby. My bro didnt even sell the kid the cigarettes. Then the cops tried to recruit him to be the one trying to buy the cigarettes in exchange for dropping the fine. My bro basically told them to fark off out of principle.


Sounds like they should have busted the vending machine corp instead.

My friend tried to buy a lighter when he was 16, the clerk refused to sell him one because "he will probably use it to light a cigarette" (which was true, but still)

Another friend was refused a sale on a bag of ice because the clerk said "he was going to use it to keep beer cold" (again, true, but still, pretty stupid)
 
2013-02-25 04:09:53 PM  
This happened at our restaurant, except we passed the test.  We got word that the VA ABC in Loudoun County were conducting stings.  I was managing at the time, and instructed my staff to literally card everyone, even if they come in with a walker and their hair is as grey as can be...

The person they sent in was over 6' tall, 230lbs, deep voice, gritty clothes, facial hair (almost epic beard)...he looked like a blue collar workin' man.

Every single waiter and bartender said they would have served him without carding him.  Stupid "gotcha" enforcement techniques...
 
2013-02-25 04:10:05 PM  
Had a buddy in HS that was our go to guy for booze purchases. he was 16 went from clean shaven to full beard in day or two.
 
2013-02-25 04:10:10 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Once again...

To order beer, I have to show an official state-issued form of Identification.

To vote for all levels of government, I simply have to state a name that someone then checks off the list.

Yet people are considered backwards if they suggest IDs should be displayed to vote.



Ever kill someone because you voted?
 
2013-02-25 04:10:30 PM  

scottydoesntknow: mjohnson71: most importantly fight and die for your county
then why can't you have a drink?

Have you ever seen that show "What Would You Do?" They had two actors dressed in military fatigues saying they just got back from Iraq. They walk into a bar and try to order a drink. The bartender flat-out refuses. The test was to see if other patrons would buy them alcohol. Most of them either did, or suggested a place that will sell to underage veterans.


Military fatigues, no. Anyone could buy those.  But having spoken to many bartenders in NYC, if you come in your uniform you are absolutely served even if you are obviously 18 or 19.
 
2013-02-25 04:10:47 PM  

the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?


Democrats.

C'mon, you know it's true.

 

StrangeQ: Link farked?  Anyway, this kind of "gotcha" bullshiat is why people don't trust the police.  They've gone from serve and protect to "Hmm, not enough people are breaking the law, let's devise a devious means to manufacture some crime to prove we're still relevant."

I certainly feel safer.


Why do yo hate LEO's so much.

You do know that real criminals have guns and they are too broke to pay fines.

Why don't you ever think of the State before yourself?
 
2013-02-25 04:11:07 PM  

treesloth: If they send someone that gives the appearance of being over 30, they are creating a substantial risk of inducing a person to serve alcohol to an illegal recipient. The act of requesting the drink would, I suppose, constitute "active inducement or encouragement". The physical intimidation factor might play in, but I'd think a bartender would meet a varied enough group to make that not a big inducement.


They probably get around entrapment because the bartender speaks first, saying "what can I get you?" or something like that.  They probably train the underage trap to not order/speak first.

I still think its all stupid... just throwing that out there.
 
2013-02-25 04:11:18 PM  

lordjupiter: Big Man On Campus: Once again...

To order beer, I have to show an official state-issued form of Identification.

To vote for all levels of government, I simply have to state a name that someone then checks off the list.

Yet people are considered backwards if they suggest IDs should be displayed to vote.


Ever kill someone because you voted?


No, because I didn't vote for Bush or Obama. nyuk nyuk nyuk.
 
2013-02-25 04:13:48 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Like when Dallas PD started busting people for public intoxication...while they were sitting in a bar.


Fairfax county police did that here in VA.  Sat in a busy bar and busted two types of people:
1.  Consumed more than 3-4 drinks in one hour time
2.  People walking from the bar to the cab waiting for them 12' from the front door of the restaurant

Did not matter if you had a safe ride home...Anyone who blew a .08 or more was given a public intoxication ticket, I think some people went to the drunk tank.

Buncha horseshiat and waste of county dollars and resources.
 
2013-02-25 04:13:57 PM  
Another fun fact about this place...they filmed the bar scene from The Other Guys there.  I'm pretty sure it paid for the new pool table, which was promptly destroyed by someone's cosmo spill.
 
2013-02-25 04:14:06 PM  

Endive Wombat: I was managing at the time, and instructed my staff to literally card everyone, even if they come in with a walker and their hair is as grey as can be...


Which raises the following question: Have police ever sent kids dressed in professional makeup to appear elderly (a la Jackass The Movie) on these stings?
 
2013-02-25 04:14:08 PM  

Atomic Spunk: The convenience stores in my neighborhood get busted selling alcohol to underage people every once in a while, so they started to have the employees at the checkout wear a button that says "We ID under 30". Then that changed to "We ID under 40". The last time they wore buttons, it says "Please don't take offense - we ID everyone". Now they don't wear buttons, and even senior citizens that look like they have one foot in the grave are asked for ID when buying alcohol.


Heh, I got an attendant chewed out one time by her manager. She was this young attendant who insisted I take my I.D. out every time so they can swipe to "verify" it's real. Every attendant there knew me and knew I was 25 (26 now). I played along for a couple weeks as she was new, but after a while I knew she knew who I was because she would laugh and just point at her little "We I.D under 35" sign as soon as I came in. Her manager was there one day and said:
"Do you make him take his license out every time?"
"...yes."
"Stop doing that! I know he looks 16, but you KNOW he's over 18, so stop harassing him because eventually he'll stop coming in."

She stopped doing it after that.
 
2013-02-25 04:14:15 PM  

downstairs: They probably get around entrapment because the bartender speaks first, saying "what can I get you?" or something like that.  They probably train the underage trap to not order/speak first.


If the bar ONLY sold alcohol, maybe... but you can order a coke or pepsi or glass of water.  To me, it's entrapment.
 
2013-02-25 04:14:36 PM  

scottydoesntknow: StrangeQ: Link farked?  Anyway, this kind of "gotcha" bullshiat is why people don't trust the police.  They've gone from serve and protect to "Hmm, not enough people are breaking the law, let's devise a devious means to manufacture some crime to prove we're still relevant."

I certainly feel safer.

Like when Dallas PD started busting people for public intoxication...while they were sitting in a bar.


"Mr. White, you are being charged with 'drunk in pub-Lick'!"
 
2013-02-25 04:15:02 PM  

scottydoesntknow: StrangeQ: Link farked?  Anyway, this kind of "gotcha" bullshiat is why people don't trust the police.  They've gone from serve and protect to "Hmm, not enough people are breaking the law, let's devise a devious means to manufacture some crime to prove we're still relevant."

I certainly feel safer.

Like when Dallas PD started busting people for public intoxication...while they were sitting in a bar.


Didn't even throw them into public first? At least New York got that part right...
 
2013-02-25 04:15:47 PM  

downstairs: Katolu: Bought my first case of beer when I was 14.


/can

Stole my first case of beer when I was 12.  I win!



Got a adult man with poor judgement to buy Jack Daniels for me and my best friend when I was 11. After ditching church. We got drunk with 3 kids who were out of training school and got booze from the same guy. Best friend puked on the pastors wife. We were the topic of the sermon the next week.

I win!
 
2013-02-25 04:15:52 PM  
This could've all been avoided if they can check the person's age on some sort of official document or card that has his/her picture on it...  Someone go work on that ASAP.
 
2013-02-25 04:16:11 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Once again...

To order beer, I have to show an official state-issued form of Identification.

To vote for all levels of government, I simply have to state a name that someone then checks off the list.

Yet people are considered backwards if they suggest IDs should be displayed to vote.


Me and my friends were rebels.  At 16 we snuck in line at the voting place and gave them fake names.

Yeah, voting isn't nearly as fun as drinking, that's why.
 
2013-02-25 04:16:22 PM  
cgraves67: the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?

Because of the binge drinking culture. In countries where drinking is not perceived as negative, people were less likely to consume it to a dangerous extent. When people aren't being dangerous about it, there is less need for legal restrictions.


When I was in college the rule was you could drink what you wanted, smoke what you wanted and sleep with who you wanted just don't fluent it.  We would regularly by beer on Friday and sit around and talk or go to a party on one of the other floors.  Some one would over do it and get sick but the rest of us were there to help.  This is how I learned to handle my liquor.

After I graduated I was visiting an old roommate who was working as an RA and they had just had an death from alcohol poisoning.  This is something we never heard of and I went to school.  My old roommate told me that instead of having a few beers or play quarters students would drink in private.  Being caught this booze got you kicked you of housing - big deal in Boston.  This didn't stop the drinking it drove it underground.  Buy a pint of a fifth, chug it some where discreet and then party.
 
2013-02-25 04:16:58 PM  

the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?


Morally/logically, it's stupid that you can do all sorts of big life-altering things at 18 but you can't drink at 21. However, after the Federal change, the drunk driving, and more importantly, the drunk driving fatality rate went down. Significantly.
 
2013-02-25 04:18:17 PM  

lordjupiter: Big Man On Campus: Once again...

To order beer, I have to show an official state-issued form of Identification.

To vote for all levels of government, I simply have to state a name that someone then checks off the list.

Yet people are considered backwards if they suggest IDs should be displayed to vote.


Ever kill someone because you voted?


My congresswoman used to be on the House Arms Committee, so yes.
 
2013-02-25 04:18:56 PM  

Cheron: cgraves67: the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?

Because of the binge drinking culture. In countries where drinking is not perceived as negative, people were less likely to consume it to a dangerous extent. When people aren't being dangerous about it, there is less need for legal restrictions.

When I was in college the rule was you could drink what you wanted, smoke what you wanted and sleep with who you wanted just don't fluent it.  We would regularly by beer on Friday and sit around and talk or go to a party on one of the other floors.  Some one would over do it and get sick but the rest of us were there to help.  This is how I learned to handle my liquor.

After I graduated I was visiting an old roommate who was working as an RA and they had just had an death from alcohol poisoning.  This is something we never heard of and I went to school.  My old roommate told me that instead of having a few beers or play quarters students would drink in private.  Being caught this booze got you kicked you of housing - big deal in Boston.  This didn't stop the drinking it drove it underground.  Buy a pint of a fifth, chug it some where discreet and then party.


Have you been drinking already?
 
2013-02-25 04:19:09 PM  
The 19 year olds who pose for these operations need the shiat beat out of them.
 
2013-02-25 04:20:00 PM  
It's a crime to buy underage not just serve. Cops should just send in a girl that looks 18 but is 21. Then you know if the bar is carding and aren't pushing a crime.

I'd argue the 21 age pushed drinking out of regulated bars and caused more problems for younger people.
 
2013-02-25 04:20:43 PM  
I've done secret shopper assignments like this before. But they always specified that you had to be over 21 and look younger. That way if the sale went through, no laws were actually broken. I never managed to talk anyone into selling it to me without ID.
 
2013-02-25 04:21:04 PM  
As far as I can tell, the provision that requires states to uphold the drinking age at 21 lest they lose highway funds was struck down when the Supreme Court invalidated the Medicaid expansion provision of Obamacare.  Didn't they rule that this type of Congressional action was unconstitutional?  Any lawyer types want to chime in about this?
 
2013-02-25 04:21:36 PM  

Atomic Spunk: The convenience stores in my neighborhood get busted selling alcohol to underage people every once in a while, so they started to have the employees at the checkout wear a button that says "We ID under 30". Then that changed to "We ID under 40". The last time they wore buttons, it says "Please don't take offense - we ID everyone". Now they don't wear buttons, and even senior citizens that look like they have one foot in the grave are asked for ID when buying alcohol.


Wegmans (everyone's favorite grocery store in the Northeast) has a 100% ID policy for alcohol. Everyone must present their ID regardless of age. It's just easier that way and I don't blame them.
 
2013-02-25 04:22:11 PM  

lordjupiter: Big Man On Campus: Once again...

To order beer, I have to show an official state-issued form of Identification.

To vote for all levels of government, I simply have to state a name that someone then checks off the list.

Yet people are considered backwards if they suggest IDs should be displayed to vote.


Ever kill someone because you voted?


You don't see H. Ross Perot's jug ears. flopping about anymore, do ya?
 
2013-02-25 04:24:28 PM  

Trocadero: Morally/logically, it's stupid that you can do all sorts of big life-altering things at 18 but you can't drink at 21. However, after the Federal change, the drunk driving, and more importantly, the drunk driving fatality rate went down. Significantly.


accident fatality went down nationwide, has continued to, It's more due to the cars and roads. for drunk driving rates I'd argue it's more due to social changes than legal, as I sure had no problem drinking around age 18 even though it was set to 21 I think ten years before I turned 21.
 
2013-02-25 04:24:55 PM  

StrangeQ: Link farked?  Anyway, this kind of "gotcha" bullshiat is why people don't trust the police.  They've gone from serve and protect to "Hmm, not enough people are breaking the law, let's devise a devious means to manufacture some crime to prove we're still relevant. raise enough money in fines to give ourselves 20% raises"

I certainly feel safer.


I often say my first move as a "local government" level person of elected office (town supervisor) would be to fire half the cops. If they have time to radar anyone, then there is not enough crime to warrant their job existing.
 
2013-02-25 04:25:17 PM  
1020 was fined $1,500 as a result of the sting...

They're lucky. Here in Utah, they would have been slapped with a minimum 30-day suspension of their liquor license, with no real recourse to appeal the decision. Actually, I think they get penalized for appealing by suffering a longer suspension if they appeal and fail. These places have to close their doors for this time, and people can get laid off or have to go the whole time with no check. Sometimes, they find other jobs, and then the bar is forced to find a bunch of new employees and train them.

This kind of underhanded bullshiat is just that, bullshiat. The kind of stuf they like to pull here, just to name a couple off the top of my head?

Wait until the crowd near the door is huge, stuff a beer in their jacket, and sneak through the crowd, out the door.

Arrive as a party of 4, give their drink order, wait until the drinks are about to arrive, send 2 of the people to the bathroom, and then cite the place for over-serving since the waitress is dropping off drinks for 4 to a table of 2, regardless of how many originally ordered.

Gotta love this kind of shiat.
 
2013-02-25 04:26:03 PM  

The 4chan Psychiatrist: Endive Wombat: I was managing at the time, and instructed my staff to literally card everyone, even if they come in with a walker and their hair is as grey as can be...

Which raises the following question: Have police ever sent kids dressed in professional makeup to appear elderly (a la Jackass The Movie) on these stings?


I seriously doubt it, but it I would suspect the judge would be more apt to toss out the charges and scream at the department for wasting tax payers money on prosthetics and makeup.  I wonder if that could be classified as entrapment...
 
2013-02-25 04:27:32 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: mjohnson71: I've said this before and I'll say this again: the U.S. drinking age of 21 is stupid.

If you can legally do the following at 18:
-vote
-buy a gun
-drive
-sign a legal contract
-get married
-do/buy porn
-most importantly fight and die for your county
then why can't you have a drink?


Personally, I blame M.A.D.D.


Yup.

I read (linked from here on Fark, I think) an interesting article describing their activities over the years. Like getting the DUI laws changed from 'if your driving is adversely affected by booze...' to 'if your BAC is over a certain amount, no matter how well you may be driving', then lobbying to lower that amount. And other dirty little tricks. All in the name of 'for the children'.
 
2013-02-25 04:27:49 PM  

mjohnson71: meyerkev: the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?

Why it's X in every state - The feds cut all federal highway funding to a state unless certain state laws match requirements.  The drinking age is one of them.
Why X is 21 - Dunno
Why X is over 18 - They didn't like having high schoolers show up for school drunk.

They should change the law to say 18 + high school diploma = legal to drink.


I suspect there are a lot of farkers with GEDs or no high school diploma who will disagree with you on that...
 
2013-02-25 04:28:00 PM  

the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?


It's even higher in some countries.
 
2013-02-25 04:28:33 PM  

Nickninja: You really never know.  I just saw a picture of my wife's ex when he was in high school: balding and honestly looked mid thirties.  Some people have city miles.

Then there's my co-worker who is 32 with a husband and a kid and could easily pass for 18-19.

/no, I'm not uploading pics of said hot co-worker.  Would be creepy.


But you have them, which is creepy.

/we know what you wank to
 
2013-02-25 04:29:04 PM  

downstairs: Katolu: Bought my first case of beer when I was 14.


/can

Stole my first case of beer when I was 12.  I win!


Lol...bow to you.
 
2013-02-25 04:29:41 PM  

Mikey1969: Here in Utah


Found yer problem. A lot of state liquor laws are pretty ass-backward, but Utah's will always be the worst.
 
2013-02-25 04:30:07 PM  

bikerbob59: meyerkev: the_sidewinder: Why is the legal drinking age so high in the US?

Why it's X in every state - The feds cut all federal highway funding to a state unless certain state laws match requirements.  The drinking age is one of them.
Why X is 21 - Dunno
Why X is over 18 - They didn't like having high schoolers show up for school drunk.

It was 18 when I was in high school.  Don't recall anyone ever getting busted for being drunk in class.  Hell, we never even went to class high.  Saved that shiat for after school and weekends.


It was 18 for me as well. We'd slip out of school about 10:30 and come back after lunch just jacked. We'd also buy alcohol for any of the underage kids on the weekends as well. Personally, I'm glad it's 21, I don't want my kids to do the stuff I did.
 
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