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(France 24)   "What does your river look like?"   (observers.france24.com) divider line 99
    More: Sad, Sina Weibo, Chinese, Chinese New Year, chemical plants, Yangtze River, Hubei, industrial waste, internaut  
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12385 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2013 at 3:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-24 04:28:16 PM

MemeSlave: Weaver95: I think i'm starting to like the EPA a lot more than I did before reading that article...

Right, because without them, nobody cared about pollution.

[www.unwinnable.com image 400x288]


They didn't and still don't you fool. The Republican wingnuts have been trying for decades to expand the allotment of pollution allowed in our water systems.

Teddy would shoot the modern Republican party in the faces and dump the body in the ocean.
 
2013-02-24 04:28:17 PM
I didn't even have to see those pictures to be thankful for the EPA. I wish it got more money and more teeth to go after polluters and clean up Superfund sites.
 
2013-02-24 04:28:52 PM
Since I live in Los Angeles, my river looks like a rather wide, concrete-lined drainage ditch, because that's what it is. Water flows through it so infrequently that there are entire ecosystems built on the silt that support 30-foot-tall trees and colonies of homeless people.  Some stretches have murals in them that have lasted for decades.

When it flows, though, stay back. It will remind you it's a real river.
 
2013-02-24 04:30:19 PM

Foxxinnia: I wasn't around in the 70s so I have no first-hand knowledge of the subject, but my understanding is that this country use to be farking filthy back in the day. Like trash everywhere. Can someone from that time compare and contrast this for me?


Your understanding is quite accurate.  The sides of most highways were lined a couple of feet deep with junk that people had thrown out of their cars- and not just cigarette butts and coke cans, but old mattresses, broken washing machines, etc.  When I was a kid, we regularly had school cancellations due do air quality problems.  I posted a picture up thread of the Cuyahoga river on fire, and that wasn't the only one.  It was so bad that we had to hire an Italian guy to pretend to be an Indian in a TV commercial, because we couldn't find any actual Indians in all the smog.
 
2013-02-24 04:33:11 PM

weasil: Since I live in Los Angeles, my river looks like a rather wide, concrete-lined drainage ditch, because that's what it is. Water flows through it so infrequently that there are entire ecosystems built on the silt that support 30-foot-tall trees and colonies of homeless people.  Some stretches have murals in them that have lasted for decades.

When it flows, though, stay back. It will remind you it's a real river.


Until the Corps of Army Engineers tamed the Los Angeles and Santa Ana rivers, much the LA Basin was a floodplain delta. That's why it was fertile farmland until the suburb infection sclerosis took over post WWII. It's now a congested concrete shiathole; 60x60 miles of clogged transportation [sic] arteries.
 
2013-02-24 04:34:54 PM

Uncle Tractor: I'd post pictures of ganges, but that's probably bannination material.  GIS for those interested. (NSF ...)


I clicked on that and... jesus christ.  I knew they dumped bodies in the river, but I was not prepared to see dogs gnawing on corpses in all states of decomposition.
 
2013-02-24 04:37:22 PM
 
2013-02-24 04:40:52 PM

theorellior: didn't even have to see those pictures to be thankful for the EPA. I wish it got more money and more teeth to go after polluters and clean up Superfund sites.


Having worked disposal for a few years, I can tell you that problem isn't lack of EPA.  It's finding places for things like carcinogen contamininated asbestos insulation to go.

/and no, carcinogen contaminated asbestos is not redundant
//My river is pretty. It's just full of kepone and PCBs
 
2013-02-24 04:43:26 PM
Thank you Richard Nixon!
 
2013-02-24 04:43:44 PM
Which river? In my hood there's the Eel. Van Duzen, Mad, Trinity, Mattole, Little, and Klamath. Most had great fish returns last season. But sadly the problem with some of them, in particular the Eel and Mattole, isn't garbage, it's blue-green algae that's been attributed to fertilizer run off from all the weed growing in the region. Compounded by internal valley projects like Potter Valley that suck up more than half of the water each year for the vineyards of Napa. Beyond those obvious issues, the Trinity is crystal clear, cold, and a great spot for whitewater rafting and fishing.
 
2013-02-24 04:44:20 PM

thrasherrr: It's finding places for things like carcinogen contamininated asbestos insulation to go.


How about the offices of PNAC, the hotel where CPAC is being hosted, or even one of the several Koch mansions?
 
2013-02-24 04:45:01 PM

thrasherrr: theorellior: didn't even have to see those pictures to be thankful for the EPA. I wish it got more money and more teeth to go after polluters and clean up Superfund sites.

Having worked disposal for a few years, I can tell you that problem isn't lack of EPA.  It's finding places for things like carcinogen contamininated asbestos insulation to go.

/and no, carcinogen contaminated asbestos is not redundant
//My river is pretty. It's just full of kepone and PCBs


TSI isn't contaminated by carcinogens, asbestos IS the carcinogen.   So yes, it is redundant.
 
2013-02-24 04:46:47 PM

FloydA: Foxxinnia: I wasn't around in the 70s so I have no first-hand knowledge of the subject, but my understanding is that this country use to be farking filthy back in the day. Like trash everywhere. Can someone from that time compare and contrast this for me?

Your understanding is quite accurate.  The sides of most highways were lined a couple of feet deep with junk that people had thrown out of their cars- and not just cigarette butts and coke cans, but old mattresses, broken washing machines, etc.



The roadside trash is what I remember best.  People just didnt give a shiat.

Twice a year, back in the 70s,  my grandma would have me and a couple buddies clean out the little woods / raspberry patch in her front yard of empty 1 gallon plastic containers that had been used by people to dispose of their used motor oil.  There'd usually be dozens of them.

Across the street was a recycle dump for the oil and people would walk across and simply toss the empties into her front yard / woods.

So, even the people responsible enough to not dump used oil down the sink or pour it out on a designated patch of dirt somewhere, still thought nothing of tossing the empties any old where.
 
2013-02-24 04:52:32 PM

Lee451: I live right below the fall line on the Rappahannock River, which is pretty nice. Clean enough to swim in and fish from.


Used to live in Fredericksburg for 10 years. Moved a couple years before they removed the Rappahannock River dam. Always a cool sight to watch the river flood.

/enjoy your free month
//'cause your from FredVegas
 
2013-02-24 04:53:06 PM

Foxxinnia: I wasn't around in the 70s so I have no first-hand knowledge of the subject, but my understanding is that this country use to be farking filthy back in the day. Like trash everywhere. Can someone from that time compare and contrast this for me?


There's an Alan Jackson song from 2001 called Drive
It has the lyrics of...

"...He let me drive here when we'd haul off a load ...
Just a dirt road with trash on each side
But I was Mario Andretti
When Daddy let me drive "

I remember those days. People would just drive down a dead end road and throw their trash over the side. Trash was the only thing that road had. It cracked me up to hear it discussed so casually in a country song. Here's a video of roadside dumping from 2011
 
2013-02-24 05:04:08 PM
 phoenixdan, thank you very much! I have lived on RT. 3 in Stafford County most of my life. I did live on Sophia Street overlooking the river for 3 years. That was wonderful.
 
2013-02-24 05:04:19 PM

MemeSlave: Weaver95: I think i'm starting to like the EPA a lot more than I did before reading that article...

Right, because without them, nobody cared about pollution.

[www.unwinnable.com image 400x288]


It is only because people care that we have the EPA. What else could we do; sit around and cry about it?
 
2013-02-24 05:08:15 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-24 05:17:47 PM
Foreign companies wouldn't be moving so many jobs and factories there if they didn't stand to gain from the lack of regulations.
Meanwhile, in the USA many people have been taught to hate regulations and the government because businesses are our true allies.
 
2013-02-24 05:19:48 PM
What are you talking about, China, that river looks nice and clean...
cdn.rekkerd.org
www.mnn.com
img.izifunny.com
...compared to this one near Jakarta. If you look closely, you might be able to make out some water.
 
2013-02-24 05:23:57 PM
Hey, I'm impressed that they have a river.  In parts of ShanXi province the tributary streams only reach the main river during the spring.  In the summer they plant crops in the river bed because they've over-irrigated so heavily.
 
2013-02-24 05:31:29 PM

TheHighlandHowler: I could walk to the Hudson in five minutes.  Forty years ago, this would have been nothing to brag about.


Cheers!

www.tug44.org
 
2013-02-24 05:36:43 PM
This is what my river looks like with me on it
i877.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-24 05:52:50 PM
My river floods the shiat out of everything every year. What's sadder is my lake (and the tenth largest fresh water lake in the world) is about to die and nobody gives a shiat.
 
2013-02-24 05:55:13 PM
Does it look like a biatch?

/What does Marcellus' waters look like?
//Alex
 
2013-02-24 05:56:04 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

Yeah, I love the Brandywine.  I'm very glad it was targeted for conservation.  It's beautiful.
 
2013-02-24 05:57:47 PM
Not my river, but a local stream I kayak.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-02-24 05:59:19 PM
Even when it floods, it is beautful:   mw2.google.com

If I'm correct, that's Andrew Wyeth's home (I think his son lives/owns it now).  My house is about 250' or so up the road.
 
2013-02-24 06:04:36 PM
www.alpineadventures.com

The Green River, closest river to me. Second's the White River, but it looks pretty much the same except with more light whitewater.
 
2013-02-24 06:06:24 PM
The Menominee River in Marinette, WI  this last September.  Photos taken from Stephenson Island.

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

It made the "Young Swimmers" statue in that park a bit more...  Interesting.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-02-24 06:12:15 PM

JonathanChance: The Menominee River in Marinette, WI  this last September.  Photos taken from Stephenson Island.

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]

It made the "Young Swimmers" statue in that park a bit more...  Interesting.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


By the way when I took those photos, you could walk from the library parking lot to to Stephenson Island without using the footbridge and STILL not get your feet wet.    It's gotten a lot better now, but that was just one farked up summer.
 
2013-02-24 06:15:13 PM

JonathanChance: The Menominee



i105.photobucket.com
doot-doo-de-doo-doo
 
2013-02-24 06:16:52 PM

JonathanChance: JonathanChance: The Menominee River in Marinette, WI  this last September.  Photos taken from Stephenson Island.

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]

It made the "Young Swimmers" statue in that park a bit more...  Interesting.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]

By the way when I took those photos, you could walk from the library parking lot to to Stephenson Island without using the footbridge and STILL not get your feet wet.    It's gotten a lot better now, but that was just one farked up summer.


I hope for all of our sakes this drought doesn't extend to this summer
 
2013-02-24 06:29:31 PM

Girion47: JonathanChance: JonathanChance: The Menominee River in Marinette, WI  this last September.  Photos taken from Stephenson Island.

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]

It made the "Young Swimmers" statue in that park a bit more...  Interesting.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]

By the way when I took those photos, you could walk from the library parking lot to to Stephenson Island without using the footbridge and STILL not get your feet wet.    It's gotten a lot better now, but that was just one farked up summer.

I hope for all of our sakes this drought doesn't extend to this summer


Well, We currently have a LOT of snow here.  Much, much, much, more than the pittance we had last winter. (IIRC, I think the snowmobilers had only about one weekend of snowmobiling in the area last winter.  Most had to drive all the way up to the Lake Superior Snow Belt.  And due to the mild temps, we had very little in the way of lake and river ice.  When we did have ice, the local ice rescue units were very busy pulling morons  who would try to go out ice fishing despite thin ice warnings.
 
2013-02-24 06:40:04 PM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net

Here's a sat view of the area. In a year with somewhat normal river levels.
 
2013-02-24 07:15:34 PM
brown from the silt and the sand
 
2013-02-24 07:37:15 PM

lohphat: encyclopediaplushuman: When governments or people disregard the notion of "don't shiat where you drink" they've already become less logical than cultures thousands of years before them.

Wat?
[www.dw.de image 700x394]


Didn't say all, but there's many ancient cultures that had that idea down pat, not to say there weren't any dunces around.
 
2013-02-24 08:34:11 PM
Being a Nor' West Coaster all my 50 years, I can honestly say we've got clean rivers. That's changing rapidly because we won't put up tall, electrified fences, to keep the undesirables out.

You know, like Californians, and New Yorkers.

The Phillipines rivers were open sewers, complete with scupper trout, and the Japanese rivers look amazingly clean, but stank with an impossible smell.
 
2013-02-24 08:40:22 PM

Malcolm_Sex: My river floods the shiat out of everything every year. What's sadder is my lake (and the tenth largest fresh water lake in the world) is about to die and nobody gives a shiat.


What lake is this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_by_area According to this, Canada's "Great Slave Lake" is #10, is that the one you're talking about?
 
2013-02-24 08:45:55 PM

PhiloeBedoe: Robe-shaped...


Oh Damn. I got that one.
 
2013-02-24 09:02:11 PM

Girion47: thrasherrr: theorellior: didn't even have to see those pictures to be thankful for the EPA. I wish it got more money and more teeth to go after polluters and clean up Superfund sites.

Having worked disposal for a few years, I can tell you that problem isn't lack of EPA.  It's finding places for things like carcinogen contamininated asbestos insulation to go.

/and no, carcinogen contaminated asbestos is not redundant
//My river is pretty. It's just full of kepone and PCBs

TSI isn't contaminated by carcinogens, asbestos IS the carcinogen.   So yes, it is redundant.


Asbestos is only dangerous as a friable solid, airborne dust, or if you eat it. Encapsulating it to be totally safe for transport or storage is trivial.  Disposal is solved.

The procedures and regulations for different cat 1 agents are not generally similar.  Finding a disposal site or non-conflicting destruction method for mixed hazmat, even when one hazard is 'made safe', is difficult.
 
2013-02-24 10:36:13 PM

thrasherrr: Girion47: thrasherrr: theorellior: didn't even have to see those pictures to be thankful for the EPA. I wish it got more money and more teeth to go after polluters and clean up Superfund sites.

Having worked disposal for a few years, I can tell you that problem isn't lack of EPA.  It's finding places for things like carcinogen contamininated asbestos insulation to go.

/and no, carcinogen contaminated asbestos is not redundant
//My river is pretty. It's just full of kepone and PCBs

TSI isn't contaminated by carcinogens, asbestos IS the carcinogen.   So yes, it is redundant.

Asbestos is only dangerous as a friable solid, airborne dust, or if you eat it. Encapsulating it to be totally safe for transport or storage is trivial.  Disposal is solved.

The procedures and regulations for different cat 1 agents are not generally similar.  Finding a disposal site or non-conflicting destruction method for mixed hazmat, even when one hazard is 'made safe', is difficult.


Hi-temp incineration...fixes pretty much everything with almost no particulate as emissions.
 
2013-02-24 10:37:09 PM
And with proper filtration you can recapture the lead gas emissions.
 
2013-02-24 10:49:22 PM
Tom Lehrer summed up the time quite nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRCws08QzKo
 
2013-02-25 01:49:56 AM

Weaver95: I think i'm starting to like the EPA a lot more than I did before reading that article...


I'll believe in the EPA when it stops allowing insiders like BP from dumping their toxic waste where my drinking water comes from. It's unacceptable and should be zero by any reasonable approach. Pollution is still a corporatist club, it's just a smaller club than it used to be. Better than the old days but not where it should have been in the first place. If government really did its job the pollution would have never been allowed in the first place as it is a violation of property rights.
 
2013-02-25 09:40:49 PM
I don't know what our river looks like. It is never the same river twice.
 
2013-02-25 09:48:14 PM
Welcome to Beautful Ankh-Morpork!

img.izifunny.com

The River Ankh, scene of the annual Ankh Boat Race, where hardy boatsmen run the 100 yard dash carrying their boats. You have to run on the Ankh. If you stand still, the river eats the soles of your boots.

Shown here is how the taxi boat men "pole" their way across the river by pushing on what is believed to be the bottom of the river with poles. Oars don't work in the dense waters of the Ankh, and sails tend to corrode quickly in the acidic river air. For a small fee you can buy a bottled or boxed sample of the river guaranteed to contain at least some water.
 
2013-02-25 09:52:33 PM
When the carp die, you have a problem.
 
2013-02-26 10:11:52 PM

Girion47: The procedures and regulations for different cat 1 agents are not generally similar.  Finding a disposal site or non-conflicting destruction method for mixed hazmat, even when one hazard is 'made safe', is difficult.

Hi-temp incineration...fixes pretty much everything with almost no particulate as emissions


One year my projects used up more than half the high temp capacity in the USA. We were literally burning rail cars full of metal and concrete for months. There was plenty of other stuff that the incinerators were not allowed to take.

/my clinkers, let me show you the piles
 
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