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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   The "Land of 10,000 Lakes" and the largest fresh water reservoir in the world is starting to dry up. You betcha everybody panic   (startribune.com) divider line 151
    More: Scary, Minnesota, storm sewers, snow melt, deep underground, environmental standards, fresh water, Clear Lake, aquifers  
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15673 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2013 at 11:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-24 01:02:05 PM
This quote from the article might have a clue for a solution, "where people are using water - and then sending it downstream".
 
2013-02-24 01:02:36 PM

NewportBarGuy: I think we need less regulation. The Free Market will fix this.


Like the regulations prohibiting dredging on many of the tributary streams in the Mississippi River system? The one that did quite a lot to dam up said tributaries and play a large roll in the recent drought?

/ some regulations are good; most are hyper-technical abominations that actually hurt more than they help.
 
2013-02-24 01:04:11 PM
Who would have guessed we can't breed like catholic rabbits and expect resources to keep up. Real shocker here.
 
2013-02-24 01:04:34 PM

Kevin72: Corporations are people, too.
They have as much right to use as much water as they need.
It's a freedom of speech and expression issue.
Vote Republican.


I can't begin to describe to you how much I hate that ruling. There just aren't sufficient words.
 
2013-02-24 01:07:17 PM
Wicked coffee Meesta Jeeem
 
2013-02-24 01:12:49 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Can we make it illegal to water your lawn yet? I've never seen a bigger waste of water. And for what? Pretty grass?


People should be able to use their share of the water on what they want. That said, after the first Xgal per month, start raising the rates by tier. If you want showers and a pretty green lawn, you need to pay for it. Same goes for corporations. You want to bottle the tap water and sell it as "Ice Mountain" to retards, you need to pay for using up shared resources.
 
2013-02-24 01:13:23 PM

kqc7011: This quote from the article might have a clue for a solution, "where people are using water - and then sending it downstream".


You know where the Mississippi starts and where it ends, right?
 
2013-02-24 01:17:49 PM

Kiwimann: Well damn.

As someone who loves Minnesota, this is a sad bit of news on a Sunday morning.  I hope they can get this sorted out.


According to the article, they pump wastewater to a treatment plant and then dump the clean water in the Mississippi. Seems to me, if you pumped it from the treatment plant back to the aquifer where you got it in the first place, you'd go a long way toward solving this problem...
 
2013-02-24 01:19:33 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: The water wars have begun.

Mismanaged resources, agribusiness subsidies, and the natural Midwestern weather cycle that gave us the Dust Bowl have all come together in a glorious orgy of come home to roost chickens.


What's more, Lakes Michigan and Huron just reached record lows.  Their levels, going back a hundred years or more, have been observed to be somewhat cyclic -- about every 20 years they'll go up and down about 5 feet.  But now the sciency folks aren't sure they will come back up that much because so much of those lakes' water is diverted away through engineering projects (like reversing the Chicago River, for example) and the lack of snow and ice in the winters.

Scary times ahead, I think.
 
2013-02-24 01:20:08 PM
Just spent the past week up there.

It's one so-so urban center surrounded by a state full of rubes and hicks.

And why does Minneapolis need 5 NPR stations? Does each college get an option on having one?
 
2013-02-24 01:20:49 PM
" They filed suit, charging the state government with failing to manage its most precious resource - water."


It's nice to see that the state that brought us Michelle Bachmann, favorite of the "too much government regulation crowd" suddenly starts wondering where all the regulation is when things affect them on a personal level.

Like every...single...Republican...ever.
 
2013-02-24 01:24:59 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Kevin72: Corporations are people, too.
They have as much right to use as much water as they need.
It's a freedom of speech and expression issue.
Vote Republican.

you know you can vote Democrat and still believe that corporations are people too?


ih2.redbubble.net

POE'S LAW
 
2013-02-24 01:26:06 PM
Too many damned people drinking water- stop making babby!!!11
 
2013-02-24 01:26:21 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Kevin72: Corporations are people, too.
They have as much right to use as much water as they need.
It's a freedom of speech and expression issue.
Vote Republican.

I can't begin to describe to you how much I hate that ruling. There just aren't sufficient words.


Me too. I'm just trying to pin the tail on the elephant.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-24 01:28:22 PM
You know where the Mississippi starts and where it ends, right?

Well the Mississippi's mighty, but it starts in Minnesota at a place that you can walk across with five steps down.
 
2013-02-24 01:31:21 PM
1) overuse resources
2) make it illegal for people to harvest rainwater
3) ???
4) profit
 
2013-02-24 01:32:45 PM
storage.cloversites.com

Time to dump my stock.
 
2013-02-24 01:33:24 PM
It didn't take Daniel Damm long to figure out why the water from his faucets suddenly turned black. His well was running dry because the turkey farm up the road near Willmar had sucked down the local aquifer.

Those must be some pretty thirsty turkeys. Seriously, what are they doing with them? Making them into water balloons? I'd like to see what a depth-charged sized turkey looks like.
 
2013-02-24 01:34:52 PM

FlippityFlap: The next 20 years should be interesting, in a Chinese curse sort of way. Here in Austin, there's already a shortage of water, but everyone and their moms keep on moving here, paying 300 grand for a shiatty tract house made of press board and gypsum, for the privilege of spending 2 hours a day in traffic. I hate to break it to you, but the days of Austin being any kind of fun place to live are just about over. There's NEVER going to be enough water here, even for the people that we have now, but HEY, don't let that stop you......


Yeah, but Austin has the Kick Butt Cafè right near the Greyhound station.
 
2013-02-24 01:35:09 PM
I am glad the federal gubmint is implementing sensible strategies to curtail the devastation caused by unchecked population growth, like the dependent child anti-exemption tax. Amiright?
 
2013-02-24 01:35:32 PM

Earl of Chives: Who would have guessed we can't breed like catholic rabbits and expect resources to keep up. Real shocker here.


The US birth rate is just at to slightly below replenishment. The population growth over the past decade or so has been due to immigration. Don't let that stop your rant about "breeders" though. Just make sure you rant against "them immigrants" too.
 
2013-02-24 01:38:24 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: I can't begin to describe to you how much I hate that ruling. There just aren't sufficient words.


What do you have against the Dartmouth College? Or are you mistakenly referring to the CU ruling as establishing corporate personhood?
 
2013-02-24 01:42:18 PM
Makes you wonder why they don't build homes with dual a waste water option. One would take the nasty stuff (like from the toilet) to the treatment facility like normal. The other would take the less nasty water (like from a sink or washing machine) and send it thru a (replaceable/recycle-able) sand/charcoal filter, out to a tank buried in the yard (like a septic tank, but for liquid only), and then out drainage pipes that let most of the used water peculate back into the local aquifer. If you put a slight pressure on that tank then you could use that water to water your lawn.

/or is this too lib lib libby liberal of an idea to conserve water?
 
2013-02-24 01:42:36 PM
TODAY'S OBVIOUS NEWSFLASH: Weather comes in cycles, sometimes it is wet, sometimes dry.

In Texas, we know the drought is over when the flood washes us away.
 
2013-02-24 01:43:15 PM

Kevin72: Agent Smiths Laugh: Kevin72: Corporations are people, too.
They have as much right to use as much water as they need.
It's a freedom of speech and expression issue.
Vote Republican.

I can't begin to describe to you how much I hate that ruling. There just aren't sufficient words.

Me too. I'm just trying to pin the tail on the elephant.


Starbucks uses a lot of water in their over priced coffee- aren't they lefties?
 
2013-02-24 01:43:56 PM

DigitalCoffee: Makes you wonder why they don't build homes with dual a waste water option. One would take the nasty stuff (like from the toilet) to the treatment facility like normal. The other would take the less nasty water (like from a sink or washing machine) and send it thru a (replaceable/recycle-able) sand/charcoal filter, out to a tank buried in the yard (like a septic tank, but for liquid only), and then out drainage pipes that let most of the used water peculate back into the local aquifer. If you put a slight pressure on that tank then you could use that water to water your lawn.

/or is this too lib lib libby liberal of an idea to conserve water?


it's more of a proletariat idea
 
2013-02-24 01:45:20 PM

clowncar on fire: Kevin72: Agent Smiths Laugh: Kevin72: Corporations are people, too.
They have as much right to use as much water as they need.
It's a freedom of speech and expression issue.
Vote Republican.

I can't begin to describe to you how much I hate that ruling. There just aren't sufficient words.

Me too. I'm just trying to pin the tail on the elephant.

Starbucks uses a lot of water in their over priced coffee- aren't they lefties?


Starbucks is about as leftwing as Whole Foods.
 
2013-02-24 01:45:53 PM

snowshovel: It's nice to see that the state that brought us Michelle Bachmann, favorite of the "too much government regulation crowd" suddenly starts wondering where all the regulation is when things affect them on a personal level.

Like every...single...Republican...ever.


That's only District Six. District Four has one of the only Muslim congressmembers.
/Yeah he's not happy when he has to be in the same room as her.
 
2013-02-24 01:46:21 PM

Mrbogey: Earl of Chives: Who would have guessed we can't breed like catholic rabbits and expect resources to keep up. Real shocker here.

The US birth rate is just at to slightly below replenishment. The population growth over the past decade or so has been due to immigration. Don't let that stop your rant about "breeders" though. Just make sure you rant against "them immigrants" too.


This isn't about the last decade. It's the chickens coming home to roost following the unfettered breeding of the past 100 years.
 
2013-02-24 01:47:32 PM
Why is this news? We haven't been able to buy alcohol on Sunday for a long time. They aren't going after Saturday too!?!??!!?!

Dnrtfa
 
2013-02-24 01:48:31 PM
I was going to blame Minni/StP, but it mostly their new ethanol production plants.

Ahhh, sweet, sweet ethanol, that greatest of elixirs.

WHAT!! THEY'RE BURNING IT FOR FUEL!!

Someone must pay for this outrage, it must be BUSCH.
 
2013-02-24 01:49:42 PM

Speaker2Animals: Our system of government does not do well these days on planning for the future.

With the possible exception of a few traditional societies now swept away by freebooting capitalism, no human society has done a good job of understanding and submitting to the limits of resource exploitation and cancerous growth, one of the key elements in being able to plan for the future in ecological and economic terms rather than delusion and error.Perhaps it is time to consider making the profession of chief hydrological engineer a calling. Cecil: When that pie hit your face, I saw my dreams explode in a burst of cream and crust. But I suppose I should thank you. After all, it lead me to my true calling. Bob: Cecil, no civilization in history has ever considered chief hydrological engineer a calling. [Cecil clears his throat meaningfully] Yes, yes, the Cappadocians, fine.-- "The Brother From Another Series"One obvious step would be to stop cleaning up water and then dumping it into the Mississippi. The water from the lake must return to the lake. Of course, that might require cleaning it up even more, which means no more cheap water. Have you seen the prices farmers and industrialists pay per foot acre? We're talking fractions of a cent per cubic metre, fractions so small you can't imagine them. Meanwhile, the world's poor are paying more for drinking, cooking, and bathing water than the world's rich.It's not humans that are the disease that infects this world. It is stupidity, lies and theft.
 
2013-02-24 01:50:49 PM

Slam1263: I was going to blame Minni/StP, but it mostly their new ethanol production plants.

Ahhh, sweet, sweet ethanol, that greatest of elixirs.

WHAT!! THEY'RE BURNING IT FOR FUEL!!

Someone must pay for this outrage, it must be BUSCH.


i believe isopropyl is a better mixture
and it won't get you blind like that methanol shiat
 
2013-02-24 01:52:46 PM
I live in a state surrounded on three sides by the Ocean. There are no mountains or valleys and the base level of the land is maybe 20 feet above sea level in most areas. There are lots of lakes and swamps.

As a kid, I recall it rained a lot. During summer vacation, it seemed to rain every weekend. I lived pretty much in the middle of a tropical paradise of wild woods and green, grassy fields, acres of Palmetto bushes and the local river was packed with fish, crabs, clams and oysters.

In mid summer, the driest time, you could dig down four feet and hit ground water. My home was bracketed with major drainage canals. Most houses beyond the city limits used water wells. Irrigation for local groves and farms came from artesian wells or from water held in the drainage canals.

Some homes still had the aeration towers or sheds used to get the sulfur and iron from artesian water before piping it inside.

In the early 60's, the governor of my State (Florida) started a 'Be a Friendly Floridian' campaign to encourage growth and draw businesses in.

It worked far too well.

I learned later that much of Florida's water comes from a sand ridge which runs along the center of the state, through rain. More water comes from adjoining states via vast networks of underground caverns. Then, the natural rains soaked into the hundreds of thousands of acres of undeveloped wild lands.

Florida is basically a chunk of mud pushed up from the sea bottom. It's main foundation 'rock' is ancient coral and sedimentary stone.

Pretty much, the land can support easily only a specific amount of humans before trouble pops up.

By the 80's, it had popped up big time. The population of the state quadrupled. Hundreds of thousands of acres of wild lands were plowed under for homes and businesses. Thousands of water wells were sunk and, since most of the water is hard, water softeners were added. These, nightly, cycled to flush out their filtering tanks, and since each softener used about 80 lbs of salt a week, around 60 lbs wound up being dumped onto the grass.

Multiply that by 500, 000 new homes at least. Most in developments which used water wells dropped into the same aquifer.

Salt doesn't go away. Eventually it seeps down into the wells. The more salt you dump on the ground, the more gets into the drinking water over time.

Companies started digging up the sand ridge for it's fine white sand to use in assorted commercial products -- and landfill for new developments. That affected the inflow of fresh drinking water. When this was noticed, attempts were made to stop it -- but companies sued to keep on digging it up and the battle went on for years. Eventually, the majority of the companies were closed and further development banned -- but a few remain.

Hundreds of thousands of acres were paved over for roads and developments, sending rain water into surface sewers and right into river and into the sea. Eventually, retention ponds became mandatory for big developments and shopping centers to capture the water and give it a chance to seep back into the ground.

That helped a bit.

However, sucking water out of the ground too fast for it to be replaced created another problem: sink holes. They started popping up all over the place.

Eventually, the pattern of the summer rains was altered, meaning a lot less rain. Florida also went from having ice cold winters to barely any at all, a climate change which encouraged folks tired of the ice and snow up north to move down here by the thousands.

By the 90s, my city had to extend it's water lines out into the county to encourage folks to cap their water wells. Water shortages started showing up in the 80's. Periods of rationing went into effect then also.

Remember that Florida is a peninsula? Barely above sea level? Along the coasts, suddenly water wells were becoming salty. Since the coasts had developed much more than the mainland, they sucked out more fresh water.

The Ocean seeped in to fill in the space.

To make matters better, the huge population was polluting darn near every water source they were near. It was unavoidable. Toss in around 2 million more cars on the roads every day and the runoff alone during the rains will carry thousands of tons of pollutants right into streams and rivers.

In 1950, Florida had 2, 771, 305 residents. By 2000 it had 15,982,378. In 1960 it had 4,961,560.

It's 2013. I estimate we're now over 19,000,000 and growing.

It's not dawned on any of the leaders to hault development. Nor to start putting limits on the size of the cities.

We had ample water for everyone up through the 70's. Now, we're starting to have problems.

Plus, pollution levels have been steadily climbing for decades, no matter the efforts applied to reign them in.

Too many people in a limited space just f**ks things up royally.

And, they keep packing them in.

"It's good for the economy."
 
2013-02-24 01:53:39 PM

Rik01: Remember that Florida is a peninsula? Barely above sea level? Along the coasts, suddenly water wells were becoming salty. Since the coasts had developed much more than the mainland, they sucked out more fresh water.



yeah but WHY is Tampa Bay under water all of a sudden?
I thought teh Rays and Buccaneers played there!!
 
2013-02-24 01:53:49 PM
Okay Farkers here comes the math:

Average rainfall, Minnesota:  30 inches per year;

Rainfall per one acre, all year long; 850,781 gallons;

Daily average, per acre:  2329 gallons.

Any questions?
 
2013-02-24 01:55:03 PM

brantgoose: Speaker2Animals: Our system of government does not do well these days on planning for the future.


With the possible exception of a few traditional societies now swept away by freebooting capitalism, no human society has done a good job of understanding and submitting to the limits of resource exploitation and cancerous growth, one of the key elements in being able to plan for the future in ecological and economic terms rather than delusion and error.

Perhaps it is time to consider making the profession of chief hydrological engineer a calling.

Cecil: When that pie hit your face, I saw my dreams explode in a burst of cream and crust.
But I suppose I should thank you. After all, it lead me to my true calling.

Bob: Cecil, no civilization in history has ever considered chief hydrological engineer a calling.

[Cecil clears his throat meaningfully]

Yes, yes, the Cappadocians, fine.

-- "The Brother From Another Series"

One obvious step would be to stop cleaning up water and then dumping it into the Mississippi. The water from the lake must return to the lake. Of course, that might require cleaning it up even more, which means no more cheap water.

Have you seen the prices farmers and industrialists pay per foot acre? We're talking fractions of a cent per cubic metre, fractions so small you can't imagine them. Meanwhile, the world's poor are paying more for drinking, cooking, and bathing water than the world's rich.It's not humans that are the disease that infects this world. It is stupidity, lies and theft.
 
2013-02-24 01:55:18 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Rik01: Remember that Florida is a peninsula? Barely above sea level? Along the coasts, suddenly water wells were becoming salty. Since the coasts had developed much more than the mainland, they sucked out more fresh water.


yeah but WHY is Tampa Bay under water all of a sudden?
I thought teh Rays and Buccaneers played there!!


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-24 01:55:32 PM
Well whatta ya know.  Didn't see that one coming, didja now?  You betcha I didn't.
 
2013-02-24 01:57:38 PM
As long as Lake Wobegon is okay, everything will turn out above average.
 
2013-02-24 01:59:12 PM
I honestly had no idea about Florida's water problems, although it doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the tutorial. However, I'm getting this defensive feeling about the 'snow birds' coming back to NY... NO, stay OUT, you're not our problem anymore...
 
2013-02-24 02:02:12 PM
Residential use of water is >10% of the total.  The biggest users by far are industrial users and agricultural users.  There are parts of the US where farmers are charged 1/10th the city rate for water used for center pivot irrigation.
 
2013-02-24 02:09:21 PM

DigitalCoffee: Makes you wonder why they don't build homes with dual a waste water option. One would take the nasty stuff (like from the toilet) to the treatment facility like normal. The other would take the less nasty water (like from a sink or washing machine) and send it thru a (replaceable/recycle-able) sand/charcoal filter, out to a tank buried in the yard (like a septic tank, but for liquid only), and then out drainage pipes that let most of the used water peculate back into the local aquifer. If you put a slight pressure on that tank then you could use that water to water your lawn.

/or is this too lib lib libby liberal of an idea to conserve water?


A "gray water" system like this has been banned in nearly every state. It was part of a fresh water initiative started by the Sierra Club.

In Watfington State, they will fine you $thousands a day.

/this tree hugger hates greenies
 
2013-02-24 02:10:26 PM

olddinosaur: Okay Farkers here comes the math:

Average rainfall, Minnesota:  30 inches per year;

Rainfall per one acre, all year long; 850,781 gallons;

Daily average, per acre:  2329 gallons.

Any questions?


What are they doing with the extra 2 gallons per acre a day?
 
2013-02-24 02:15:11 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Slam1263: I was going to blame Minni/StP, but it mostly their new ethanol production plants.

Ahhh, sweet, sweet ethanol, that greatest of elixirs.

WHAT!! THEY'RE BURNING IT FOR FUEL!!

Someone must pay for this outrage, it must be BUSCH.

i believe isopropyl is a better mixture
and it won't get you blind like that methanol shiat


You just can't get good Sterno these days.

I've had to switch to Belevedere to mix with my Nyquil.
 
2013-02-24 02:30:58 PM

Earl of Chives: This isn't about the last decade. It's the chickens coming home to roost following the unfettered breeding of the past 100 years.


Do you have children? Will you ever have children? If the answer isn't no to both counts then the only way I'll take you seriously in your gripe is if you become an hero.
 
2013-02-24 02:33:01 PM

Slam1263: Jon iz teh kewl: Slam1263: I was going to blame Minni/StP, but it mostly their new ethanol production plants.

Ahhh, sweet, sweet ethanol, that greatest of elixirs.

WHAT!! THEY'RE BURNING IT FOR FUEL!!

Someone must pay for this outrage, it must be BUSCH.

i believe isopropyl is a better mixture
and it won't get you blind like that methanol shiat

You just can't get good Sterno these days.

I've had to switch to Belevedere to mix with my Nyquil.


try Benzedrex
 
2013-02-24 02:40:51 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Slam1263: Jon iz teh kewl: Slam1263: I was going to blame Minni/StP, but it mostly their new ethanol production plants.

Ahhh, sweet, sweet ethanol, that greatest of elixirs.

WHAT!! THEY'RE BURNING IT FOR FUEL!!

Someone must pay for this outrage, it must be BUSCH.

i believe isopropyl is a better mixture
and it won't get you blind like that methanol shiat

You just can't get good Sterno these days.

I've had to switch to Belevedere to mix with my Nyquil.

try Benzedrex


cache.deadspin.com
 
2013-02-24 02:45:46 PM
They're on the shores of Lake Superiors, the largest fresh water body in the world and they don't have any water. It's called an aqueduct, look into it morans.

static.ddmcdn.com

They use them in New York, they use them in California and they even had them in ancient Rome, look into it.
 
2013-02-24 02:47:17 PM

Kevin72: Corporations are people, too.
They have as much right to use as much water as they need.
It's a freedom of speech and expression issue.
Vote Republican.


Today's corporations are mostly run by spoiled-brat baby boomers who by their nature are too damned stubborn and impatient to wait for long-term returns, I'd say the less regulation they have will allow them to bleed all our resources dry and destroy our civilization even faster.

Since today's relentless propaganda has effectively convinced 99% of the world's population that it is downright evil to stand in the way of corporate profits we should be saying "so long, it's been good to know ya".
 
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