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(Seattle Times)   Need more proof that the college degree is becoming the new high school diploma? The $10/hour office courier now needs a 4 year degree   (seattletimes.com) divider line 231
    More: Obvious, high school diploma, academic degrees, bachelor's degrees, administrative assistant, job board  
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4683 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Feb 2013 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-24 07:28:50 AM  
I graduated from grammar school and spent 4 years in high school.  Therefore, I spent 4 years doing post-graduate studies.  Right?  That has to count.  Someone, please, hire me.
 
2013-02-24 08:39:58 AM  
"Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures. They're not just looking for a paycheck."

media.comicvine.com
 
2013-02-24 08:55:21 AM  
"College graduates are just more career-oriented"

At least you'll know why they left douchebags.
 
2013-02-24 09:00:22 AM  
"Sorry, we don't accept high school diplomas, get a four year degree."

(4 years later...)

"It's nice you have a four-year degree, but we have people with a master's competing with you for this job."

(2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

(a Ph.D. later...)

"I'm sorry, you're overqualified for this position."
 
2013-02-24 09:02:58 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: "Sorry, we don't accept high school diplomas, get a four year degree."

(4 years later...)

"It's nice you have a four-year degree, but we have people with a master's competing with you for this job."

(2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

(a Ph.D. later...)

"I'm sorry, you're overqualified for this position."


I felt a bit like that after 2 two-year degrees in IS.  Oh, now they want certifications.. cost money to take, and money to train for.. how about that job so I can afford it?

Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.
 
2013-02-24 09:22:27 AM  
Of course you want someone with a college degree for a $10/hr job.  They'll just be so happy to have it after being thousands of dollars in the hole thanks to student loans that they won't get too uppity.
 
2013-02-24 09:47:21 AM  
Newsflash to the HR monkeys writing these job postings:  If an entry-level position requires "X years experience", IT'S NOT AN ENTRY LEVEL POSITION!!

/Huh-huh, "entry-level".
 
2013-02-24 09:47:33 AM  
In 2006 I saw an ad for a job that required a Masters degree and paid 8.50 an hour.
 
2013-02-24 09:47:48 AM  
Alphax: Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.

I was fortunate enough to have graduated high school on the cusp of the .com boom and smart enough to benefit from it.

// can't ask for a degree in a field that's so new that it has no curriculum or certifications.
 
2013-02-24 09:49:29 AM  

bumblebutt: In 2006 I saw an ad for a job that required a Masters degree and paid 8.50 an hour.


Barista?
 
2013-02-24 09:52:01 AM  

Andromeda: Of course you want someone with a college degree for a $10/hr job.  They'll just be so happy to have it after being thousands of dollars in the hole thanks to student loans that they won't get too uppity.


This.  Having soul crushing debt will make one put up with more shiat and abuse and less likely to quit before the time comes around for significant raises / benefits / pension and they fire you for people freshly in huge debt who will work for less out of desperation.
 
2013-02-24 09:52:03 AM  

bumblebutt: In 2006 I saw an ad for a job that required a Masters degree and paid 8.50 an hour.


The side jobs at grad school paid better than that (research assistant was about 12.50 an hour as I recall).
 
2013-02-24 09:56:26 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: "Sorry, we don't accept high school diplomas, get a four year degree."

(4 years later...)

"It's nice you have a four-year degree, but we have people with a master's competing with you for this job."

(2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

(a Ph.D. later...)

"I'm sorry, you're overqualified for this position."


I graduated with a BA in 2007. My first job paid 9.00 because I had no job experience (aside from all of the paid work internships in college). It took me a year to find it. Every food service or cashier job I applied for told me I was overqualified when I listed my degree. When I didn't - they wanted to know what I was doing the four years between high school and my application. Absurd.
 
2013-02-24 09:57:19 AM  

bumblebutt: In 2006 I saw an ad for a job that required a Masters degree and paid 8.50 an hour.


Masters degree in what though?
 
2013-02-24 09:59:06 AM  
Subby missed the part where, the candidate must have 1-2 years experience delivering the exact pieces of paper that the office does, otherwise HR won't consider those skills applicable.
 
2013-02-24 09:59:54 AM  
Right out of high school I applied at the local Barnes and Noble and I was told that I would need a bachelors degree for even
a cashiers position.
 
2013-02-24 10:00:43 AM  

GoldSpider: Newsflash to the HR monkeys writing these job postings:  If an entry-level position requires "X years experience", IT'S NOT AN ENTRY LEVEL POSITION!!

/Huh-huh, "entry-level".


Any ads for people with 5 years experience with software that came out two years ago?

I forgot who said it, but someone summed up that BS nicely:  "We were going over your application for being a cab driver, it says you have 6 years of Chevy Caprice experience.  We were looking for someone who is familiar with Fords.  Have a nice day."

I know someone who applies everywhere, and if hired, uses the time between hiring and working to learn whatever system she was hired to work with.  Hasn't not worked so far.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-24 10:02:00 AM  
Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures. They're not just looking for a paycheck.

Please let somebody bring that up at the next fee award hearing this law firm is involved in.

"Your honor, my firm and I spent 1,200 billable hours on this case. We won a $3 million verdict and set the precedent that nose picking is a patentable invention. I think $1.2 million is a reasonable fee."

"Mr. Slipakoff, your firm did some fine work in this case, but that work should count as an investment in your career. I'm sure you weren't in it just for the paycheck. I find $1 is a reasonable fee under the circumstances."
 
2013-02-24 10:12:34 AM  
As someone who is STILL looking for a job in my field, 2 years after graduation with an MA,  this just depresses me more.


/student loans still in unemployment deferment
//FARK....
 
2013-02-24 10:15:49 AM  

raerae1980: As someone who is STILL looking for a job in my field, 2 years after graduation with an MA,  this just depresses me more.


/student loans still in unemployment deferment
//FARK....


Same here, except it's only been a year and a half and with a PhD.

I'm pretty sure I picked the exact wrong time to graduate.  It would really be nice is Washington could figure out some sort of budget so that agencies, labs, and contractors actually knew where they stood with funding and could actually open up hiring again.
 
2013-02-24 10:21:51 AM  

NeoCortex42: I'm pretty sure I picked the exact wrong time to graduate


You and me both, sir, you and me both.
 
2013-02-24 10:22:55 AM  

Alphax: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: "Sorry, we don't accept high school diplomas, get a four year degree."

(4 years later...)

"It's nice you have a four-year degree, but we have people with a master's competing with you for this job."

(2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

(a Ph.D. later...)

"I'm sorry, you're overqualified for this position."

I felt a bit like that after 2 two-year degrees in IS.  Oh, now they want certifications.. cost money to take, and money to train for.. how about that job so I can afford it?

Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.


gotta get an internship or something during IT/IS schooling. i worked at the CC i went to for one guy doing desktop support, met the admin, then volunteered to help the admin and ended up working for him for a couple of semesters after i volunteered some. lots of good experience from that.

he also happened to know a woman in IS at a large medical group, which helped land me an internship there...3 years of internships, 2 AAS degrees and i gotted me a job.

to others interested: some schools participate in discount cert programs, or work with vendors to provide cert vouchers if you take certain courses.
 
2013-02-24 10:24:19 AM  
I just graduated, so I'm getting a job...

/or am I?
 
2013-02-24 10:27:30 AM  
Yeah this is the problem I come up to all the time.  "You need a BA for this position"  When I've been doing that position for 6 years now but can't even get a second look at my resume without that BA.  When I do get an interview and explain my reasoning for only having 1 year of college they normally understand and agree with my reasoning, but it's hard to get them to look past the "no college degree" part.

Still watching my High school friends coming out of college and it's been 10 years since High school and only 1 out of 30 have good jobs.  It's really quite sad.
 
2013-02-24 10:30:34 AM  
It all depends on what field you go into.

I had a Master's degree - I could find a job if I wanted to move somewhere across the country.  Locally - nothing.  After a few years of searching and hearing that I was 'overqualified' for any job I applied for (ie - $10/hour jobs) I went back to community college and started a tech degree.

I've been working full time and going to school for the past year - I graduate in may.  I've had about 4 other job offers in the last month.  I don't even mention my Masters or Bachelors anymore.  Companies are literally coming into class to pay for student's schooling (two-year degree) if they agree to work for them.
 
2013-02-24 10:33:18 AM  

Mytch: I just graduated, so I'm getting a job...

/or am I?


Depends in what. School is more about meeting people anyways. I know someone who graduated with a bachelor's in English lit about 20 years ago and is now doing logistics for a customs broker. Just because they knew someone on the inside.

School isn't about education. That's always been free. School is about creating a new class of people, a two-tier society.

Very simply put, if you don't go to university, you'll work with your hands, have a crappy workday that starts at 6AM, a punch clock and 30 minute lunches. Oh sure, the technical colleges learn from their big brothers and can dress up the most vile job to look good. They'll try to sell you that welding is glamorous and requires a few years of study.

If you look at the Western world, the greatest time of progress was the first half of the twentieth century. How'd they manage that without having everyone get a bachelor's?

Simple. Human nature hasn't changed. We don't suddenly have more Einsteins and Bohrs than before, no matter how long you send them to university.
 
2013-02-24 10:38:52 AM  

lordargent: Alphax: Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.

I was fortunate enough to have graduated high school on the cusp of the .com boom and smart enough to benefit from it.

// can't ask for a degree in a field that's so new that it has no curriculum or certifications.


My high school had CCNA prep classes and was just full of councillors and teachers who blathered in our ears about how much money we can make if we get this cert right out of high school.Fast forward to graduation and the .com bubble just burst but I was too young to realize I was already screwed. So naturally I spent the next year failing the test 4 times and when I finally did pass it I was ecstatic. Until I looked at the job market and what few jobs were available required CCNA + about 3 other certs and 10 years experience.

Got in to construction and became a electrician.Hard work but after reading horror stories on here about the IT field, Im pretty sure I made the right choice.

//farkin-a lawrence.....farkin-a

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-24 10:39:14 AM  
Alphax:
Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.

Just so someone has said it, it's not, you know.  I have a career myself right now, no degree.  I am thinking about switching careers entirely and going back to school while I work.  It's not easy, but it's not too late, either.

I started feeling like it was "way too late" years ago.  Now I am over it and making the changes I want.

/just trying to be encouraging, not high-horsey.
 
2013-02-24 10:41:40 AM  

Alphax: I felt a bit like that after 2 two-year degrees in IS. Oh, now they want certifications.. cost money to take, and money to train for.. how about that job so I can afford it?

Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.


Don't expect a programming job with a 2-year degree.

DarkDeepMoon: Yeah this is the problem I come up to all the time.  "You need a BA for this position"  When I've been doing that position for 6 years now but can't even get a second look at my resume without that BA.  When I do get an interview and explain my reasoning for only having 1 year of college they normally understand and agree with my reasoning, but it's hard to get them to look past the "no college degree" part.

Still watching my High school friends coming out of college and it's been 10 years since High school and only 1 out of 30 have good jobs.  It's really quite sad.


Yup.  More than 20 years of experience but no degree and nobody wants me.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-24 10:44:17 AM  
I know someone who graduated with a bachelor's in English lit about 20 years ago and is now doing logistics for a customs broker. Just because they knew someone on the inside.

My mother was an English major. She learned to use computers, had a lot of contacts in the nearby university, and got a job as what we'd now call the department IT guy. They paid for her to get a master's in computer science (20 years after her original BA) and now she has a good job. But that was all well before the current trend.

When I screen resumes I treat college like another job (except you paid to learn instead of being paid to learn). I don't work for a big company. At a big company you have to fit your job into the HR framework. HR hates letting hiring managers use their own judgment. If it isn't objectively obvious whether the person ought to be hired there's a risk of a lawsuit. So they make you specify X years of college and Y years of work experience in field Z, and they strongly encourage uniform tests of applicants with clear pass/fail criteria.
 
2013-02-24 10:47:02 AM  

Andromeda: Of course you want someone with a college degree for a $10/hr job.  They'll just be so happy to have it after being thousands of dollars in the hole thanks to student loans that they won't get too uppity.


That whole angle boggled my mind.  If I'm trying to get someone to take a menial job at slave wage rates, the  last thing I want is someone career oriented with a lot of education.  They're only going to stick around making copies and coffee until about 5 seconds after they land a "real" job.  It's called "overqualified".
 
2013-02-24 10:53:26 AM  
One of the insurance agents I do IT contracting work for won't hire anyone who doesn't have a Bachelor's degree. He's got a whole office full of 25 year women who make $10 - $12 an hour and no shortage of resumes to sift through.
 
2013-02-24 10:56:49 AM  

CujoQuarrel: bumblebutt: In 2006 I saw an ad for a job that required a Masters degree and paid 8.50 an hour.

Masters degree in what though?


I think it had something to do with social work. The employer was Boys Town.
 
2013-02-24 11:01:08 AM  
My district was putting forth a policy to get 50% of our teachers with master's degrees in 5 years, but, outside of the pay raise which has existed for a decade before (which requires ~7 years to pay back the cost), no incentives were offered. My master's is not to increase my pay in the classroom but for a better position opening shortly, which means the district will be losing one in the classroom because of those lack of incentives. Same problem I think will happen with these companies seeking to exploit graduates or engaging in academic creep; when somewhere better opens with reasonable requirements, no loyalty has been built so the experienced, educated employee leaves.
 
2013-02-24 11:02:39 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Mytch:

Very simply put, if you don't go to university, you'll work with your hands, have a crappy workday that starts at 6AM, a punch clock and 30 minute lunches. Oh sure, the technical colleges learn from their big brothers and can dress up the most vile job to look good. They'll try to sell you that welding is glamorous and requires a few years of study.


Its not really THAT bad despite the negative connotation the office world has on us dirty construction workers. In fact theres a lot of positives over working in a office. You're always some place new and usually never at the same place for more than 3 months, you (almost) never have a H.R. department to worry about, the work day typically fly's by and more often than not, it really can be a lot of fun.

Hell I WISH I knew how to weld, those guys make a BOAT load of money doing work on the side, Im probably going to take classes to get a cert in the near future just so I can too.

I guess what im saying is, I posted that Office space pic for a reason. I'm pretty close to a real life Peter Gibbons. I worked in a office for about 6 months before I got in to electrical school and I was miserable, I had my reservations about construction too until I started doing it's not for everyone for sure but people who are really hard up for work could do way worse.
 
2013-02-24 11:09:24 AM  
In my experience recruiters are looking more for experience then that piece of paper. Now, of course there is always exceptions.

I graduated hs, took a little college and make about 50k a year which honestly is pretty farking great. I been at my current position for 6 years and my day to day operations keep changing which is fine with me, its not anything exciting but I work with my friends and it pays the bills.
 
2013-02-24 11:14:51 AM  
The current Education system is a bubble which will eventually burst.
 
2013-02-24 11:16:27 AM  
I graduated from Dallas' Skyline High School in 1978. They had a trade school built into the high school called the Career Development Center (CDC). The were dozens of "clusters" where the students were in class 3 hours a day, 5 days a week for up to 3 years.The program was intended to give the student the skills required to go out and get a job right out of high school. In my case, it worked out well. I took a course called Electronic Science. Shortly before graduation I got a job as an installation helper with a local alarm company. I have been continuously employed in the alarm/security and communications industry ever since.
 
2013-02-24 11:17:15 AM  

terminalx: In my experience recruiters are looking more for experience then than that piece of paper. Now, of course there is are always exceptions.


There are other things that piece of paper tells them.
 
2013-02-24 11:23:58 AM  

Trollin4Colon: Quantum Apostrophe: Mytch:

Very simply put, if you don't go to university, you'll work with your hands, have a crappy workday that starts at 6AM, a punch clock and 30 minute lunches. Oh sure, the technical colleges learn from their big brothers and can dress up the most vile job to look good. They'll try to sell you that welding is glamorous and requires a few years of study.

Its not really THAT bad despite the negative connotation the office world has on us dirty construction workers. In fact theres a lot of positives over working in a office. You're always some place new and usually never at the same place for more than 3 months, you (almost) never have a H.R. department to worry about, the work day typically fly's by and more often than not, it really can be a lot of fun.

Hell I WISH I knew how to weld, those guys make a BOAT load of money doing work on the side, Im probably going to take classes to get a cert in the near future just so I can too.

I guess what im saying is, I posted that Office space pic for a reason. I'm pretty close to a real life Peter Gibbons. I worked in a office for about 6 months before I got in to electrical school and I was miserable, I had my reservations about construction too until I started doing it's not for everyone for sure but people who are really hard up for work could do way worse.


I'm an office worker but I've worked at many construction sites and fab shops. Welding is one job you could never pay me enough to do. A forty year old welder looks like he's about to die from old age. The cost to your health is way too high.
 
2013-02-24 11:24:27 AM  
I'm going back to grad school to get an MBA with a concentration in human resources.  Not sure if I should be getting a kick out of this or not.

/can pay for it, won't need to take out any loans.
 
2013-02-24 11:28:04 AM  

xSauronx: Alphax: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: "Sorry, we don't accept high school diplomas, get a four year degree."

(4 years later...)

"It's nice you have a four-year degree, but we have people with a master's competing with you for this job."

(2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

(a Ph.D. later...)

"I'm sorry, you're overqualified for this position."

I felt a bit like that after 2 two-year degrees in IS.  Oh, now they want certifications.. cost money to take, and money to train for.. how about that job so I can afford it?

Never did get a programming job.. and way too late now.

gotta get an internship or something during IT/IS schooling. i worked at the CC i went to for one guy doing desktop support, met the admin, then volunteered to help the admin and ended up working for him for a couple of semesters after i volunteered some. lots of good experience from that.

he also happened to know a woman in IS at a large medical group, which helped land me an internship there...3 years of internships, 2 AAS degrees and i gotted me a job.

to others interested: some schools participate in discount cert programs, or work with vendors to provide cert vouchers if you take certain courses.


If have a friend that is the IT director at the local CC. He has 5 positions that have been open for over a year for IT support. The problem is that the administration set the requirements for these positions. These are par time 15-20 hour a week jobs that pay $10/hr and require an A+,a Network+ cert and a Bachelors degree. He says the administration can't figure out why he can't fill these positions.
 
2013-02-24 11:32:00 AM  

Russ1642: Welding is one job you could never pay me enough to do. A forty year old welder looks like he's about to die from old age.


What are you talking about, they look fine.
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

www.colourbox.com
 
2013-02-24 11:32:16 AM  
Ha ha, shoulda flunked out like me, suckers.
 
2013-02-24 11:32:17 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: "Sorry, we don't accept high school diplomas, get a four year degree."

(4 years later...)

"It's nice you have a four-year degree, but we have people with a master's competing with you for this job."

(2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

(a Ph.D. later...)

"I'm sorry, you're overqualified for this position."


Sounds like my situation right now
 
2013-02-24 11:33:41 AM  

Russ1642: Trollin4Colon: Quantum Apostrophe: Mytch:

Very simply put, if you don't go to university, you'll work with your hands, have a crappy workday that starts at 6AM, a punch clock and 30 minute lunches. Oh sure, the technical colleges learn from their big brothers and can dress up the most vile job to look good. They'll try to sell you that welding is glamorous and requires a few years of study.

Its not really THAT bad despite the negative connotation the office world has on us dirty construction workers. In fact theres a lot of positives over working in a office. You're always some place new and usually never at the same place for more than 3 months, you (almost) never have a H.R. department to worry about, the work day typically fly's by and more often than not, it really can be a lot of fun.

Hell I WISH I knew how to weld, those guys make a BOAT load of money doing work on the side, Im probably going to take classes to get a cert in the near future just so I can too.

I guess what im saying is, I posted that Office space pic for a reason. I'm pretty close to a real life Peter Gibbons. I worked in a office for about 6 months before I got in to electrical school and I was miserable, I had my reservations about construction too until I started doing it's not for everyone for sure but people who are really hard up for work could do way worse.

I'm an office worker but I've worked at many construction sites and fab shops. Welding is one job you could never pay me enough to do. A forty year old welder looks like he's about to die from old age. The cost to your health is way too high.


Oh yeah, id never do it as a career. They do too much work high steel work and I don't like heights but as a hobby and a form of income on the side, about 20 mins work can earn a pretty good chunk of change.
 
2013-02-24 11:39:12 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: (2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."


FYI, a masters is a graduate degree.
 
2013-02-24 11:48:36 AM  

ohknaks: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: (2 years later...)

"Great job on that master's degree, but everyone's been getting graduate degrees because of the bad economy."

FYI, a masters is a graduate degree.


If you put the emphasis on everyone's and not on graduate the statement supports your assertion.
 
2013-02-24 11:49:51 AM  

Andromeda: Of course you want someone with a college degree for a $10/hr job.  They'll just be so happy to have it after being thousands of dollars in the hole thanks to student loans that they won't get too uppity.


The type of degree is critical here. I wouldn't hire someone who incurred thousands of dollars of student loan debt to get a English Lit or Gender studies degree. Racking up that much debt for something that obviously useless is the mark of a Grade-A moran.
 
2013-02-24 11:51:06 AM  
<i>"College graduates are just more career-oriented," said Adam Slipakoff, the firm's managing partner. "Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures. They're not just looking for a paycheck." </i>

So we're not going to give them one.  We're going to abuse them with demeaning work for which they're vastly overqualified, tell them they're lucky to work here and that they should be grateful to use for deigning to bestow "work experience" upon them, as much as they can pick up from reading the mail before they deliver it.

God, I hate employers.
 
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