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(C|Net)   Stupid: bitcoins. Epic Stupd: Bitcoin ATMs   (news.cnet.com) divider line 126
    More: Stupid, Bitcoin ATMs, funds, national borders, Nashua, wire transfer  
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3884 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Feb 2013 at 9:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 08:16:43 PM
What's stupid about it?
 
2013-02-23 08:24:39 PM

gopher321: What's stupid about it?


Exactly.

I'm all ready already! As a networking guy I have a large collection of bit buckets in my garage just sitting there that I can now fill.
 
2013-02-23 08:39:42 PM
You never go ATM
 
2013-02-23 08:46:48 PM
24.media.tumblr.com

Give me your bitcoins, Kyle. I know you have them around your neck!
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

They're intangible, Fatass!

entertainment.msn.co.nz
Buuuuuut IIIIIIII want my BIIIIIIITCOOOOOIIIIIINS!
 
2013-02-23 08:51:10 PM
i.imgur.com
I'm just investing in Bison Dollars. Each one will be worth five British Pounds.
 
2013-02-23 08:59:11 PM
I don't see a problem with this.  Right now it's stupidly complex having to go from my bank to Dwolla to Gox and finally into Silk Road.
Um, you know, theoretically.
 
2013-02-23 09:03:25 PM
How much is a shave and a haircut? :P
 
2013-02-23 09:19:18 PM

dahmers love zombie: I don't see a problem with this.  Right now it's stupidly complex having to go from my bank to Dwolla to Gox and finally into Silk Road.
Um, you know, theoretically.


I totally agree with you..........yes, in theory.
 
2013-02-23 09:45:36 PM
i.imgur.com
I'm just surprised Mario isn't suing.
 
2013-02-23 09:50:27 PM
If you're so obsessed with a Free to Play game that you're pouring real world funds into them in enough bulk that you need to use an ATM to do it, you have a problem.

Or you have too much of mommy and daddy's money to waste.
 
2013-02-23 09:52:48 PM
You mean I can turn my internationally recognised and value regulated currency into a locally recognised less stable currency?


Woo Freakin Hoo
 
2013-02-23 09:54:23 PM
The big thing that made me give up on bit coin was the annoyance of dealing with online currency exchanges. (Yeah, it's anonymous. Send us a copy of your photo ID....), so yeah a USD in/BTC out ATM would be handy.

These guys are nuts if they think retailers will give up real estate for these machines though.
 
2013-02-23 09:55:20 PM

BronyMedic: If you're so obsessed with a Free to Play game that you're pouring real world funds into them in enough bulk that you need to use an ATM to do it, you have a problem.

Or you have too much of mommy and daddy's money to waste.


Drugs, online gambling, and kiddie porn are considered "free to play" games now, or are you just unclear on what bitcoin is and what people spend it on?
 
2013-02-23 09:57:23 PM

BronyMedic: If you're so obsessed with a Free to Play game that you're pouring real world funds into them in enough bulk that you need to use an ATM to do it, you have a problem.

Or you have too much of mommy and daddy's money to waste.


I think you're referring to some sort of virtual in-game currency, like Facebook tokens or some business.

Bitcoins are this sort of quasi-untraceable "virtual currency" that people are using to purchase... things. Some of those things might not exactly be legal, and some are. It's sort of a fascinating concept, but I remain cautiously skeptical about the topic. I'm not about to go trading in my greenbacks, you know?
 
2013-02-23 09:59:48 PM

serial_crusher: Drugs, online gambling, and kiddie porn are considered "free to play" games now, or are you just unclear on what bitcoin is and what people spend it on?


Allegedly some restaurants and stores are starting to accept BC payments. You just use the app on your phone and beam them over.

But just for the record, Reddit Gold is the only legitimate business I have seen that accepts BitCoin payments. I've never been to any other storefront - physical or online - that has a "now accepting BitCoins" sign.
 
2013-02-23 10:03:45 PM

BronyMedic: Or you have too much of mommy and daddy's money to waste.


Plenty of self-made rich people waste money on frivolous things. In fact it may be the #1 hobby of all rich people. There are entire industries built around it.
 
2013-02-23 10:05:25 PM

GreenAdder: Bitcoins are this sort of quasi-untraceable "virtual currency" that people are using to purchase... things. Some of those things might not exactly be legal, and some are. It's sort of a fascinating concept, but I remain cautiously skeptical about the topic. I'm not about to go trading in my greenbacks, you know?


I'm not exactly an expert on the US and International banking laws, but something tells me that what they are promoting and doing is somehow against the law in the United States.
 
2013-02-23 10:06:50 PM
Phase 1: Wait for a few of these boxes to fill up with $100 bills.
Phase 2: Confiscate them under some money-laundering or anti-terrorism legislation.
Phase 3: Profit (for the local law-enforcement agencies).
 
2013-02-23 10:09:26 PM
I'm gonna use all my bitcoins to buy magic beans!
 
2013-02-23 10:13:55 PM

BronyMedic: I'm not exactly an expert on the US and International banking laws, but something tells me that what they are promoting and doing is somehow against the law in the United States.


I don't know the legality of it. I just wonder what's backing this "currency," especially that it can be "mined" by making your computer do a lot of number-crunching.
 
2013-02-23 10:14:56 PM

BronyMedic: I'm not exactly an expert on the US and International banking laws, but something tells me that what they are promoting and doing is somehow against the law in the United States.


Since bitcoin does not, itself, represent a currency, they're not. Mind you, they're obeying the letter of the law and not the spirit, so don't be surprised if they get legislated/strongarmed out of existence, but they're not building a currency, despite how frequently it's describe that way.

They're building a market for computationally difficult numbers and have a very complex system for tracking who "owns" a given number at any given time.

It's stupid, but probably not illegal. Yet.
 
2013-02-23 10:15:39 PM
Makes sense.

If find a cute girl at a bar I can just go the the bitcoin ATM and deposit $50 into her online account so I can get a bj in the mens room without wasting time on silly things like dinner, drinks, or flowers.

/I see no above board use for this
 
2013-02-23 10:19:03 PM

GreenAdder: especially that it can be "mined" by making your computer do a lot of number-crunching.


There's a finite number of possible coins. They estimate the pool will run out in 2140. The algorithm is built in such a way that it will become increasingly hard to generate new coins. There's a whole bunch of stuff about the proof-of-work in the protocol to show who actually created and "owns" a bitcoin.
 
2013-02-23 10:23:35 PM
Sounds smrt, not stupd.
 
2013-02-23 10:24:00 PM

SpdrJay: I'm gonna use all my bitcoins to buy magic beans!


Don't you mean beenz?
 
2013-02-23 10:26:16 PM

BronyMedic: GreenAdder: Bitcoins are this sort of quasi-untraceable "virtual currency" that people are using to purchase... things. Some of those things might not exactly be legal, and some are. It's sort of a fascinating concept, but I remain cautiously skeptical about the topic. I'm not about to go trading in my greenbacks, you know?

I'm not exactly an expert on the US and International banking laws, but something tells me that what they are promoting and doing is somehow against the law in the United States.


Actually they're not illegal.

Criminals are using them, but there's no laws against minting your own currency. US currency is backed by the US. The Euro is backed by the Eurozone. Bitcoins are backed by jack and shiat, but as long as people respect them, they're worth the value they're being exchanged at and there's no laws against them in and of themselves.

However, criminals recognize them also. You can purchase illicit goods with any currency the criminal market will accept: diamonds, gold, slaves, drugs, dollars, Euros, and of course bitcoins. That doesn't make the currency illegal, just the market.

It's two different things.
 
2013-02-23 10:38:32 PM

GreenAdder: I just wonder what's backing this "currency," especially that it can be "mined" by making your computer do a lot of number-crunching.


It's backed by a consensus among its users that the currency has value. Which is pretty much the same thing as any other currency including gold, with the only difference being that bitcoin has a much smaller pool of people who have signed on to that belief.

For your second point, it's not a problem that bitcoin can be mined on your computer. It's a feature that it can only be mined by doing a lot of number crunching. Because everything is distributed across a global network of computers, it's not possible for one person or agency to suddenly pull one of these moves on the Bitcoin system:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-23 10:39:12 PM

doglover: Criminals are using them, but there's no laws against minting your own currency. US currency is backed by the US. The Euro is backed by the Eurozone. Bitcoins are backed by jack and shiat, but as long as people respect them, they're worth the value they're being exchanged at and there's no laws against them in and of themselves.


That sounds a lot like money laundering/hiding transfer of large sums of US currency and corporate scripting. Both are illegal, IIRC, under US law.

doglover: However, criminals recognize them also. You can purchase illicit goods with any currency the criminal market will accept: diamonds, gold, slaves, drugs, dollars, Euros, and of course bitcoins. That doesn't make the currency illegal, just the market.


I wasn't trying to infer that digital currency in and of itself is illegal, but rather the practices of their business. Virtual to real currency  was the issue that Blizzard ran into when it proposed a RMT store for players in Diablo 3. They ran into a lot of banking laws and tax law issues with currency transfers and exchanges in the US and abroad they didn't expect.
 
2013-02-23 10:39:37 PM
About a month ago I started really looking into Bitcoin. The tech side of it is interesting. As for the economic side of it... yeah, it sounds weird. So did this paper money thing when someone first suggested it.

I looked at it this way: I can spend 15 bucks and buy a bitcoin and just sit on it for a while. If bitcoin goes nowhere, I'm out 15 bucks but I got to play an interesting experiment. If it takes off some day, my bitcoin is worth a lot more than 15 bucks because I got in early.

That was a month ago. That 1 bitcoin would be worth about 30 bucks today. Oops
 
2013-02-23 10:44:36 PM
I'll invest again after the next hack.
$30 is not a reasonable price for a BitCoin.
I imagine they're worth about half as much.
 
2013-02-23 11:08:44 PM

BronyMedic: That sounds a lot like money laundering/hiding transfer of large sums of US currency


It's not. It's bitcoins. Different currency. You can make your own currency. It's legal.

The difference is you can't require it be accepted.
 
2013-02-23 11:11:43 PM

doglover: You can make your own currency. It's legal.


Yeah, ask e-gold or Liberty Dollar how well that worked out for them...
 
2013-02-23 11:13:42 PM

Ivo Shandor: doglover: You can make your own currency. It's legal.

Yeah, ask e-gold or Liberty Dollar how well that worked out for them...


I'd rather ask Toronto Dollars.
 
2013-02-23 11:27:05 PM
@Subby: Peter Thiel? Is that you??
 
2013-02-23 11:54:46 PM

doglover: I'd rather ask Toronto Dollars.


That's more of a gift card than an alternative currency since it's directly tied to real Canadian dollars. It's also not trying to operate in the United States, and nobody's offering to sell their oil for Toronto Dollars, so it's not a threat to the US$.
 
2013-02-23 11:55:43 PM

gopher321: What's stupid stupd about it?


FTFY
/pet peave
 
2013-02-23 11:57:29 PM

GreenAdder: BronyMedic: I'm not exactly an expert on the US and International banking laws, but something tells me that what they are promoting and doing is somehow against the law in the United States.

I don't know the legality of it. I just wonder what's backing this "currency," especially that it can be "mined" by making your computer do a lot of number-crunching.


You've hit on what is backing it, like all other currency it is imaginary
 
2013-02-24 12:04:47 AM
So far the only thing I've been able to think of that they could be useful for that the average person might use is allofmp3. Too bad they went out of business a few years ago because it would have been a killer use for bitcoins.
 
2013-02-24 12:11:57 AM

Ivo Shandor: nobody's offering to sell their oil for Toronto Dollars


Yet.
 
2013-02-24 12:19:20 AM

t3knomanser: There's a finite number of possible coins


And a large number of them have been lost due to hdd crashes, and a large number are hoarded due to there being a finite supply. Looks good on paper, but it's no way to run a mint.
 
2013-02-24 12:23:20 AM

Ivo Shandor: GreenAdder: I just wonder what's backing this "currency," especially that it can be "mined" by making your computer do a lot of number-crunching.

It's backed by a consensus among its users that the currency has value. Which is pretty much the same thing as any other currency including gold, with the only difference being that bitcoin has a much smaller pool of people who have signed on to that belief.

For your second point, it's not a problem that bitcoin can be mined on your computer. It's a feature that it can only be mined by doing a lot of number crunching. Because everything is distributed across a global network of computers, it's not possible for one person or agency to suddenly pull one of these moves on the Bitcoin system:

[i.imgur.com image 630x378]


That's not a "move". Adjusting the amount of money available is how governments can control inflation. It is a fundamental part of macroeconomics.
 
2013-02-24 12:23:39 AM
Bitcoin is less risky for online sellers than accepting credit cards, which can be disputed by customers.

No, it isn't.  Virtually every bitcoin story ever told ends the same way:  "And then all of my bitcoins were stolen".  If you try to buy anything with them, spend them, invest them, keep them in any sort of online bitcoin bank, or even keep them on your computer which is connected to the internet, they will all be stolen.

Other than that, they're great.
 
2013-02-24 12:36:38 AM
I had three different reactions to this in the space of two minutes.

1. LOL bitcoins. What's the machine going to do, spit electrons into my hand?
2. Actually, wait. They must mean they've built an ATM that checks the spot price for bitcoins, and spits out dollars based on that price when you fork over your bitcoins. Hey, that's not entirely stupid. The more easily converted bitcoins are back into $$$, the more people will trust them, and the stronger bitcoins will be.

And then I clicked on the article, which brought me to

3. Oh, no, wait, the opposite of that. LOL bitcoins.
 
2013-02-24 12:37:11 AM

RogermcAllen: Makes sense.

If find a cute girl at a bar I can just go the the bitcoin ATM and deposit $50 into her online account so I can get a bj in the mens room without wasting time on silly things like dinner, drinks, or flowers.

/I see no above board use for this


I can see a time in the future when credit card companies and banks refuse to do business with certain legitimate groups and organizations due to pressure from the US government.

First of course, they will start with a group like Wikileaks that is so heinous, not a single person would dare come to their defense. But eventually, even Fark will fall under their odious assault on our Constitutional rights.
 
2013-02-24 12:39:19 AM
Also, I got a chuckle out of this FTFA:

The U.S. dollar has lost 96 percent of its value over the last century because of cumulative year-over-year inflation, according to federal government data.

My god! That means it'll have lost 100% of its value in just a few more years! TO THE BITCOIN MACHINES!
 
2013-02-24 12:40:40 AM

albuquerquehalsey: t3knomanser: There's a finite number of possible coins

And a large number of them have been lost due to hdd crashes, and a large number are hoarded due to there being a finite supply. Looks good on paper, but it's no way to run a mint.


You do realize that Ecuador, El Salvador, and Panama have no national currency and use US dollars to run their economy?

And this is how we shipped money to Iraq:

static.guim.co.uk
 
2013-02-24 01:03:21 AM
A bit pragmatic, not if bitcoin.com is the only place to have bitcoins, As the only place to manage the currency, the only way to cheat the system is to try sneak in fake coins physically at a server location. If multiple location are synchronized, thus making that even impossible. All it takes is momentum, no longer can banks manipulate the game or the Fed with the system.
 
2013-02-24 01:06:06 AM

HempHead: You do realize that Ecuador, El Salvador, and Panama have no national currency and use US dollars to run their economy?


And thank goodness for that. Ecuador is such a nice place to visit and using US currency makes it much easier for me to spend money than if I had to keep doing exchanges. And the ATMs don't even charge a usage fee. It's cheaper for me to get money from an ATM in Ecuador than from most ATMs back home.

While I'm sure it's a source of injured pride to have to use another country's currency, it sure is nice for the tourism business.

/Ecuador is also a really good value for your money
//Just don't go to their embassy in London... I hear it's getting rather smelly.
 
2013-02-24 01:27:39 AM

EngineerAU: While I'm sure it's a source of injured pride to have to use another country's currency, it sure is nice for the tourism business.


The US probably spends something like Ecuador's entire budget in our losing battle with counterfeiters. Even if that weren't a concern, it's a pain in the ass and expensive to print bills and mint coins. I'm surprised more countries don't do this, with the  € or  ¥ or £ if not the $. Iceland has roughly the population of Madison, Wisconsin, for instance. Why the fark are they still devoting resources to printing up krónur?

I mean, yes, it does pretty much give the US (or whoever) 100% control over your monetary policy, which is a nontrivial consideration. But for a small economy that's already firmly within the US sphere of influence anyway, it makes a lot of sense whether or not you have a tourist industry (or an easily wounded sense of national pride).
 
2013-02-24 02:09:48 AM

albatros183: GreenAdder: BronyMedic: I'm not exactly an expert on the US and International banking laws, but something tells me that what they are promoting and doing is somehow against the law in the United States.

I don't know the legality of it. I just wonder what's backing this "currency," especially that it can be "mined" by making your computer do a lot of number-crunching.

You've hit on what is backing it, like all other currency it is imaginary


Not really. National currencies have the backing of that Government, various international trade treaties, and the economic and industrial base of the nation it was minted in. BitCoin is just, well, it's worth what BitCoin says it's worth. There's no national backing behind it. They take your money and in return give you nothing. I guarantee that if a large amount of users tried to coin in their Bitcoins for currency in a large transaction, it'd suddenly have been devalued.
 
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