If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Gizmag)   NASA plans to nuke your house from orbit, it's the only way to be sure   (gizmag.com) divider line 15
    More: Cool, orbits, NASA, Langley Research Center, cold fusion, strong nuclear forces, weak interactions, nuclear reactions, isotopes of oxygen  
•       •       •

3190 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Feb 2013 at 7:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



15 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-02-23 07:08:34 PM  
Just give me enough time to pour a bourbon, sit out on the deck and watch it all burn. kthanksbye
 
2013-02-23 07:32:43 PM  
www.reallifecomics.com
/obligatory
 
2013-02-23 08:04:04 PM  
"I'm interested in understanding whether the phenomenon is real, what it's all about."

Right.  Okay, you get back to us on that.
 
2013-02-23 08:16:19 PM  
My skepticism and my hopeful imagination are locked in battle over this cold fusion/LENR thing. It has all the ingredients for a great story you want to believe: we don't know everything there is to know about weak force interactions and we don't understand everything about fusion, though we think we know just enough that this LENR stuff seems like wishful thinking and snake oil.  Tests have been inconclusive so far, and because the government is afraid of bad publicity for backing a scam project with tax dollars, the major work in the field is happening at the garage lab home science level, where standards may be sketchy and measurements imprecise.   it is a good time for a government program to come in with the highest quality measurement tools and brainpower to try and settle once and for al if something is *there* or not. But the money isn't available.  So it is up to some private sector Bond Villain level guy and his money to speculate on a guy that can make a working device.
 
2013-02-23 08:31:25 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Just give me enough time to pour a bourbon, sit out on the deck and watch it all burn. kthanksbye


Save a glass and a chair for me brother.
 
2013-02-23 08:39:37 PM  

Any Pie Left: ... So it is up to some private sector Bond Villain level guy and his money to speculate on a guy that can make a working device.


If it's Octopussy, sign me up.
 
2013-02-23 09:14:03 PM  
NASA needs to watch Real Genius for a better idea.
 
2013-02-23 09:18:09 PM  

Any Pie Left: My skepticism and my hopeful imagination are locked in battle over this cold fusion/LENR thing. It has all the ingredients for a great story you want to believe: we don't know everything there is to know about weak force interactions and we don't understand everything about fusion, though we think we know just enough that this LENR stuff seems like wishful thinking and snake oil.


I did some reading into the background behind this guy's work when this story showed up a day or two ago.  It's all snake oil, enabled by a combination of wishful thinking and the fool's perpetual eagerness to part with his money.

The big "We're not Pons and Fleischman! There's a theoretical basis for our work!" claim comes from a hypothesis (which they call a theory, naturally) by Widom and Larsen which states that hydrogen (or deuterium, or tritium) atoms bound to metal surfaces undergo spontaneous electron capture to form neutrons (from protium) or dineutrons (from deuterium, and the dineutron claim alone is pretty farking silly).  They base that on some questionable quantum field theory1, which they claim shows that surface plasmon-polariton modes cause a huge increase in electrons' mass (not band theory effective mass, but real plugs-into-mc2 mass), so that the electron capture reduces the energy of the system.

If you know anything about physics, this is where you're probably facepalming or laughing your ass off.  If that mass increase actually happened, then it would be impossible to form metal surface hydrides (by their paper's own math, sticking a hydrogen atom to palladium would cost about 10 MeV), and any hydrides that did form would tend to spontaneously decompose with nuclear-bomb-scale energy output.  That's not exactly in agreement with observation, and it's absolutely critical to their line of reasoning. The problem is also so obvious that I can't attribute it to incompetence -- they have to know this is bullshiat, but they crank it out anyway.

Add that to the constant refrain of "We swear it works, just not when anybody else is watching too closely," and I just can't quite see how anybody gives this crap serious attention.

1 If anybody here is better at QFT than me, take a look at equation (14) of the first paper under http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/WLTheory.shtml#papers (Fark doesn't like the direct link to the PDF?) and tell me if it makes any damn sense in the case of a spectral function that doesn't vanish at low frequencies.  I'm guessing that's a high-frequency approximation that they're applying in the low-frequency limit, and getting bullshiat as a result.
 
2013-02-23 09:40:20 PM  
"In past years, several labs have blown up while studying LENR and windows have melted "

Just the sort of technology I want  my "hold my beer and watch this" neighbour to be tinkering with in his basement.
 
2013-02-24 12:10:59 AM  
The thing that sets my crackpot-senses tingling is the discussion of all the energy they'll have available... engineering considerations and SPACESHIP designs included in their releases/articles

before they get to the part where they aren't sure if the underlying physical processes they're counting on actually exist...

aaaahhh, yeah.
 
2013-02-24 05:30:35 AM  
In past years, several labs have blown up while studying LENR and windows have melted - showing that if it really works, it can produce an impressive amount of energy.

It's no secret that hydrogen can asplode, brainiac. Doesn't prove that the energy produced will be able to be harnessed or even whether it'll produce energy more than one catastrophic time.Good luck though!
 
2013-02-24 08:45:36 AM  

Professor Science: Any Pie Left: My skepticism and my hopeful imagination are locked in battle over this cold fusion/LENR thing. It has all the ingredients for a great story you want to believe: we don't know everything there is to know about weak force interactions and we don't understand everything about fusion, though we think we know just enough that this LENR stuff seems like wishful thinking and snake oil.

I did some reading into the background behind this guy's work when this story showed up a day or two ago.  It's all snake oil, enabled by a combination of wishful thinking and the fool's perpetual eagerness to part with his money.

The big "We're not Pons and Fleischman! There's a theoretical basis for our work!" claim comes from a hypothesis (which they call a theory, naturally) by Widom and Larsen which states that hydrogen (or deuterium, or tritium) atoms bound to metal surfaces undergo spontaneous electron capture to form neutrons (from protium) or dineutrons (from deuterium, and the dineutron claim alone is pretty farking silly).  They base that on some questionable quantum field theory1, which they claim shows that surface plasmon-polariton modes cause a huge increase in electrons' mass (not band theory effective mass, but real plugs-into-mc2 mass), so that the electron capture reduces the energy of the system.

If you know anything about physics, this is where you're probably facepalming or laughing your ass off.  If that mass increase actually happened, then it would be impossible to form metal surface hydrides (by their paper's own math, sticking a hydrogen atom to palladium would cost about 10 MeV), and any hydrides that did form would tend to spontaneously decompose with nuclear-bomb-scale energy output.  That's not exactly in agreement with observation, and it's absolutely critical to their line of reasoning. The problem is also so obvious that I can't attribute it to incompetence -- they have to know this is bullshiat, but they crank it out anyway.

Add that to the constant refrain of "We swear it works, just not when anybody else is watching too closely," and I just can't quite see how anybody gives this crap serious attention.

1 If anybody here is better at QFT than me, take a look at equation (14) of the first paper under http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/WLTheory.shtml#papers (Fark doesn't like the direct link to the PDF?) and tell me if it makes any damn sense in the case of a spectral function that doesn't vanish at low frequencies.  I'm guessing that's a high-frequency approximation that they're applying in the low-frequency limit, and getting bullshiat as a result.


Yeah well you know, that's just like, your opinion, man.

/oblig
 
2013-02-24 01:37:03 PM  
In past years, several labs have blown up while studying LENR and windows have melted - showing that if it really works, it can produce an impressive amount of energy.

That's a hell of a claim to make with no citations
 
2013-02-24 01:46:11 PM  
must have been referring to stuff like this: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=187#PhotosAccidents
 
2013-02-26 03:43:16 PM  
If this power source is the size of a water heater, why bother putting batteries in cars, just puton of these puppies in it.  Obligatory - I'm STILL waiting for my flying car!
 
Displayed 15 of 15 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report