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(Games Industry International)   Sorry, console fanboys, but no next-gen console will ever out compete a high-end PC again. Truth to the left; Denial to the right   (gamesindustry.biz) divider line 250
    More: Obvious, system console, Crytek, non-disclosure agreement, denials, console wars, Eurogamer  
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6467 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Feb 2013 at 9:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 11:25:48 PM

bob_ross: Lets put it this way, build a PC with the same RAW processing specs as a PS4

Compare price.  Yeah, console, make a whole lot of sense with a way bigger payoff - chances are you already own decent PC.

Besides How many other than game types besides FPS/MMORPG or strategy are really fun without a joystick? Yeah playing Arcade/driving/console type games suck with a keyboard.

Yeah sure you can DO way more with a PC but strictly from a GAMERS (yeah you're really a gamer if you only own a PC) it makes wayyy more sense.


You aren't a gamer if you don't have a dice bag.

I can build a computer with more raw processing power than a PS3 for cheaper than a PS3. I can build a computer with the same processing power as a PS4 for just a little over they're going to cost at launch, and for about half what a PS4 costs a year later.

There's a reason FPSs, all the big ticket RPGs, ALL the strategy games, and the MMORPGs are on the PC. All the games look better, perform better, are moddable, and if you want to gripe and moan about some 16 button pieces of plastic that are designed to be usable by the lowest common denominator, you can use both the PS3 and XBOX 360 controllers on a PC. Not to mention the wide plethora of controller options that aren't available on the consoles. I've got a Logitech G13 and G9x sitting on my desk right next to an XBOX 360 controller I use to play Dead Space.

Consoles only make sense for the poor and computer illiterate who do not have the capability or will to roll up their sleeves and learn how to use a computer.
 
2013-02-23 11:26:24 PM

dyhchong: GAT_00: dyhchong: Stop, just stop.

What, I'm not allowed to be proud of my only slightly behind the edge computer?

RAM Capacity = pointless unless it's a bottleneck. If it's not, more won't actually have any effect on performance. (and it's like $5 a gig)
RAM Frequency = pointless except for specific tasks. You won't see any difference going from 1333MHz to 1600MHz unless you're timing how long it takes to unRAR a big file.
The AMD Phenom II X6s are quite crappy, they have far lower IPC than Sandy Bridge onwards, so the clock rate (in GHz, not GB) is irrelevant unless you're comparing very close neighbours. The Pentium Ds, with their two cores were clocked close to 4GHz, yet they're rivaled by Atoms at 1.6GHz these days.

Most important components for determining gaming performance is CPU/GPU and whether you have enough RAM, but if you're not using more than 4GB, you won't see any speedbump going to 16/32 or 64GB of RAM.

What your storage medium is can also have an effect in that your computer can boot faster and loading times in games that load between levels but it won't increase your frames, number of characters onscreen or image quality that improving the other two will.


And honestly, I had to take the X6 because I was pretty short on cash when I built it, but my old computer was beyond out of date.  I got the best of what I could afford, and despite not being bleeding edge even when built, I'm still happy with it.  It's also why it doesn't have a SSD.  But nothing I regularly play needs that absolute bleeding edge, and the work I do on it may be 5-10% slower with the weaker processors, but I generally do short operations, so I can't tell.
 
2013-02-23 11:32:41 PM

GAT_00: dyhchong: GAT_00: dyhchong: Stop, just stop.

What, I'm not allowed to be proud of my only slightly behind the edge computer?

RAM Capacity = pointless unless it's a bottleneck. If it's not, more won't actually have any effect on performance. (and it's like $5 a gig)
RAM Frequency = pointless except for specific tasks. You won't see any difference going from 1333MHz to 1600MHz unless you're timing how long it takes to unRAR a big file.
The AMD Phenom II X6s are quite crappy, they have far lower IPC than Sandy Bridge onwards, so the clock rate (in GHz, not GB) is irrelevant unless you're comparing very close neighbours. The Pentium Ds, with their two cores were clocked close to 4GHz, yet they're rivaled by Atoms at 1.6GHz these days.

Most important components for determining gaming performance is CPU/GPU and whether you have enough RAM, but if you're not using more than 4GB, you won't see any speedbump going to 16/32 or 64GB of RAM.

What your storage medium is can also have an effect in that your computer can boot faster and loading times in games that load between levels but it won't increase your frames, number of characters onscreen or image quality that improving the other two will.

And honestly, I had to take the X6 because I was pretty short on cash when I built it, but my old computer was beyond out of date.  I got the best of what I could afford, and despite not being bleeding edge even when built, I'm still happy with it.  It's also why it doesn't have a SSD.  But nothing I regularly play needs that absolute bleeding edge, and the work I do on it may be 5-10% slower with the weaker processors, but I generally do short operations, so I can't tell.


I wasn't saying your computer was bad, the stop was that you were proudly screwing up all the measures that actually mean anything, hell the 360 has three cores at 3.2GHz and would be less than half the performance of my 3.3GHz quad. It's like home appliance retailers selling desktops boasting a GT320 WITH 2GB OF GRAPHICS RAM. When it could barely take advantage of 512MB because they're the numbers people think mean good, when really a GT320 is an HTPC class card.

Your computer will still play all new games at decent settings (and far better than consoles, the Xbox 360 and PS3s are using a derivative of a seven generation old GPU.
 
2013-02-23 11:33:58 PM

RogermcAllen: Fubini: revrendjim: Didn't read the thread so this was probably covered, but I can't build a gaming quality PC for $300.

But then you pay twice as much for all the games you buy. I have about 15 games in my 360 library, and if I were able to save $30 on all of them that'd be $450 in savings. I don't normally pay $60 for a game, but I do for some, so assume they cost $50 each:

$300 for console
$900 in games @ $60 each x 15
$120 in controllers @ $40 x 3
$200 in XBL @ $40 x 5 years

So the total is $1520 over five years. The PC premium isn't much more than that:

$1100 for a very nice PC
$450 in games @ $30 each x 15
No controllers
No XBL

For a total of $1550 over five years.

I was able to get Borderlands 2 for $30 on Steam less than 2 months or so after release.

You can add another $500 or so to the console crowd to pay for the computer that they need to do things like word processing and photo editing.


Is that PC really staying untouched for 5 years?
Or does it get a new videocard in year 3, new OS in years 2 and 4, new HD in year 3, etc etc?
+100.00 or more for office, antivirus and other software not gaming related, but, necessary for the PC experience.
Then add in some cost for a controller unless you never deviate from FPS or RTS. Madden and stuff comes out on PC I believe.
Some things controllers are useful for.

Don't have a preference between platforms, but, the true costs should be called out.
 
2013-02-23 11:34:42 PM

lordargent: fusillade762: This right here. Absolutely cannot play any FPS with a console controller.

I can play a FPS on anything.

Likewise, I played racing games on a PC with a mouse and keyboard.

// as a joke once, I played a level in halo using a Guitar Hero guitar ... I would never do that in multiplayer though ... unless I was playing against other people who were using Guitars.


Hah, when I worked at EA I played a game of Fifa 09 using Rock Band drums against someone using the Scene It controller.
 
2013-02-23 11:35:55 PM

Virtual Pariah: RogermcAllen: Fubini: revrendjim: Didn't read the thread so this was probably covered, but I can't build a gaming quality PC for $300.

But then you pay twice as much for all the games you buy. I have about 15 games in my 360 library, and if I were able to save $30 on all of them that'd be $450 in savings. I don't normally pay $60 for a game, but I do for some, so assume they cost $50 each:

$300 for console
$900 in games @ $60 each x 15
$120 in controllers @ $40 x 3
$200 in XBL @ $40 x 5 years

So the total is $1520 over five years. The PC premium isn't much more than that:

$1100 for a very nice PC
$450 in games @ $30 each x 15
No controllers
No XBL

For a total of $1550 over five years.

I was able to get Borderlands 2 for $30 on Steam less than 2 months or so after release.

You can add another $500 or so to the console crowd to pay for the computer that they need to do things like word processing and photo editing.

Is that PC really staying untouched for 5 years?
Or does it get a new videocard in year 3, new OS in years 2 and 4, new HD in year 3, etc etc?
+100.00 or more for office, antivirus and other software not gaming related, but, necessary for the PC experience.
Then add in some cost for a controller unless you never deviate from FPS or RTS. Madden and stuff comes out on PC I believe.
Some things controllers are useful for.

Don't have a preference between platforms, but, the true costs should be called out.


Adding the cost of Office to a PC means you have to add the cost of a supplementary PC you're going to buy to the console.
 
2013-02-23 11:35:57 PM

Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?


You abomination!  You're lucky both sides are compassionate and tolerant enough to let you continue living.
 
2013-02-23 11:38:29 PM

ZeroCorpse: Like it or not, games like Angry Birds, Farmville, Cut the Rope, and Fruit Ninja are "real" videogames,


You are correct.  They are also bad video games.

ZeroCorpse: and thousands of other casual titles that were played by more people than any FPS or RTS, ever.


And what exactly is your point?  That people have bad taste?
 
2013-02-23 11:39:19 PM

Ghastly: Lsherm: Ghastly: The advantage of the console over the PC is that you know for the 5 year lifespan of that generation of console you will be able to run the games for that console.

With the PC, publishers notoriously lie about the minimum specs needed to run a game just to get you to buy it. So you guy your top of the line gaming PC and it runs all the games that came out the month you bought your PC. Then six months down the line your games download a patch to fix bugs and improve content and now your machine struggles a bit to keep up with the demands. Then another six months and you can completely forget about buying any current games because your ancient 1 year old video card is ridiculously underpowered and obsolete everything in your PC is woefully inadequate for running current games and needs to be upgraded. Repeat every year. And then between your software updates and hardware updates suddenly the old games you used to love no longer work on your machine because the new version of Direct X or some other driver is no longer backwards compatible with the old stuff.

I have a Gamecube. It still runs every Gamecube game. 10 years from now it will still run every Gamecube game. I have an XBox 360. It runs every Xbox 360 game. 10 years from now it will still run every Xbox game. My windows 7 PC won`t run current generation games worth crap because it`s a little over a year old and now considered obsolete. It also won`t run awesome old games like Interstate `76 because Direct X updates and the operating system are not backwards compatible enough to run the game.

You can usually get 3 or more years out of a PC unless you went really cheap when you bought it.

Also, if you don't want to build a virtual machine to run old games on old OSes, Good Old Games has your back:   http://www.gog.com/gamecard/interstate76   All they do is port old games to new OSes.

From what I heard the GOG version of Interstate 76 doesn`t run on Windows 7 at all and is very hit and miss o ...


sun virtualbox is a pretty impressive piece of software
I havent used it for games, but for all the other software which needed older OSes, it worked insanely good.
 
2013-02-23 11:39:23 PM
I'm obviously an expert on this topic, since I own a 360, PS3, Wii, Wii U, DS, 3DS, and two gaming PCs.  PC gaming is far superior, period.   You can all stop arguing now.

/why yes, I am single
 
2013-02-23 11:40:14 PM

DrunkenBob: Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?

You abomination!  You're lucky both sides are compassionate and tolerant enough to let you continue living.


There is no game but WoW.
Why would you need a "console" thingy??

/wrists
 
2013-02-23 11:40:45 PM
I built my machine for $2000.  It runs a ton of games like a dream.  Although, I didn't build it for gaming, it was built for my graphic design stuff mostly, I don't even really game anymore.  Once Mass Effect 3 is all out of DLC's and Dragon Age 3 has come and gone, I'm out of the gaming game.

But yeah, if xbox or playstation could run all my art stuff I guess I would use that.

Why am I posting in this thread?

Oh yeah, um, PC is better?  I don't know, I'm bad at these flame war things.
 
2013-02-23 11:44:40 PM

dyhchong: Virtual Pariah: RogermcAllen: Fubini: revrendjim: Didn't read the thread so this was probably covered, but I can't build a gaming quality PC for $300.

But then you pay twice as much for all the games you buy. I have about 15 games in my 360 library, and if I were able to save $30 on all of them that'd be $450 in savings. I don't normally pay $60 for a game, but I do for some, so assume they cost $50 each:

$300 for console
$900 in games @ $60 each x 15
$120 in controllers @ $40 x 3
$200 in XBL @ $40 x 5 years

So the total is $1520 over five years. The PC premium isn't much more than that:

$1100 for a very nice PC
$450 in games @ $30 each x 15
No controllers
No XBL

For a total of $1550 over five years.

I was able to get Borderlands 2 for $30 on Steam less than 2 months or so after release.

You can add another $500 or so to the console crowd to pay for the computer that they need to do things like word processing and photo editing.

Is that PC really staying untouched for 5 years?
Or does it get a new videocard in year 3, new OS in years 2 and 4, new HD in year 3, etc etc?
+100.00 or more for office, antivirus and other software not gaming related, but, necessary for the PC experience.
Then add in some cost for a controller unless you never deviate from FPS or RTS. Madden and stuff comes out on PC I believe.
Some things controllers are useful for.

Don't have a preference between platforms, but, the true costs should be called out.

Adding the cost of Office to a PC means you have to add the cost of a supplementary PC you're going to buy to the console.

Ok,

but someone already did account for that.

Or we can pull office and the supplementary out of the equation on both counts, so now we are back to the original equation.

The most cost effective gaming platform is a smartphone. That throws the formula way off.

$300 for Phone (unsubsidized mid level)
$20 in games (20 @ $.99 or 10 at $1.99)
$0 for controllers
$0 for XBL
$0 for OS upgrades

I'm not counting MRC because it's something you would have anyway for the phone.

None of these comparisons are really apples vs apples.
 
2013-02-23 11:48:36 PM
I play games on consoles. I've played games on consoles since the Atari came out.
I play games on PCs. I've played games on PCs since the Apple II+ came out.
But I do not play games on little hand held devices.
 
2013-02-23 11:55:46 PM

Relatively Obscure: omeganuepsilon: Few things compare to a tower that just sits there because you had to return a stick of ram or a hdd. Worth the tad extra, IF it's extra. Most places that custom configure are pretty damned reasonable. (Well, the high traffic sites(IE cyberpower), plenty of ma&pa type stores that charge out the wazoo). Unless you're a serious bargain bin hunter, you're not saving a huge bundle.

Cyberpower frightens me.  Their website kills any techboner I might have at the time, for some reason.


fark Cyberpower.  If I win the lottery, I'm getting a Falcon Northwest Mach V with a custom paint scheme:

img339.imageshack.us

PC Gamer reviews them once a year.  It's about the only machine that's ever given me half a chub just looking at it.

Also slightly NSFW case art.
 
2013-02-23 11:56:53 PM
Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?

Not only do I use both, but I have merged the console/couch/PC experience into some sort of twisted abomination of media goodness.  I moved my fancy PC over to behind the couch and hooked it into the projector, I've forgone my old dual monitor setup for over a month now in favor of one giant 120" HD display.  Wireless keyboard is comfy on my lap, the mouse sits on the armrest when I need it - I'm reclined on the couch even as I type.  I sound fat.

For gaming the KB/M still works great, I have no problems with precision in FPS games thanks to the low/wide couch armrests, and for other stuff I can use the wireless 360 controller if I want.  The latter which works especially well for the PS2 and Wii  emulators that run smoothly on the PC, which lets me bump up the resolution of the older games and cut down on load times.  I do own an actual Wii and PS2, but they're in a closet after getting these emulators up and running and my library ported - the PC runs em faster and at higher resolution (though you can only do so much, they look a helluva lot better).

PS3 is on a simple HDMI switch, 360 doesn't get used much anymore since most of the games on that system I want, have been ported to PC and Steam.

/who wants to touch me
// I SAID WHO WANTS TO F-ING TOUCH ME?!
///please...someone...anyone...touch me
 
2013-02-23 11:58:41 PM

Lsherm: Relatively Obscure: omeganuepsilon: Few things compare to a tower that just sits there because you had to return a stick of ram or a hdd. Worth the tad extra, IF it's extra. Most places that custom configure are pretty damned reasonable. (Well, the high traffic sites(IE cyberpower), plenty of ma&pa type stores that charge out the wazoo). Unless you're a serious bargain bin hunter, you're not saving a huge bundle.

Cyberpower frightens me.  Their website kills any techboner I might have at the time, for some reason.

fark Cyberpower.  If I win the lottery, I'm getting a Falcon Northwest Mach V with a custom paint scheme:

[img339.imageshack.us image 728x1024]

PC Gamer reviews them once a year.  It's about the only machine that's ever given me half a chub just looking at it.

Also slightly NSFW case art.


Too much 70's Van for me.
 
2013-02-23 11:58:41 PM

taxandspend: You're all wrong. The superior gaming option is this:


 [www.nintendo.com image 388x360]


Are those any fun?  I was thinking about picking up a 3DS.
 
2013-02-23 11:59:30 PM
Gaming must be so very hard for all of you. Am I the only blessed person who simply installs games, then plays them, and they work?

I'd write about this on my blog and link it here, but as we know, my blog sucks.
 
2013-02-23 11:59:36 PM

Virtual Pariah: Lsherm: Relatively Obscure: omeganuepsilon: Few things compare to a tower that just sits there because you had to return a stick of ram or a hdd. Worth the tad extra, IF it's extra. Most places that custom configure are pretty damned reasonable. (Well, the high traffic sites(IE cyberpower), plenty of ma&pa type stores that charge out the wazoo). Unless you're a serious bargain bin hunter, you're not saving a huge bundle.

Cyberpower frightens me.  Their website kills any techboner I might have at the time, for some reason.

fark Cyberpower.  If I win the lottery, I'm getting a Falcon Northwest Mach V with a custom paint scheme:

[img339.imageshack.us image 728x1024]

PC Gamer reviews them once a year.  It's about the only machine that's ever given me half a chub just looking at it.

Also slightly NSFW case art.

Too much 70's Van for me.


I'm a product of the 70's.  Perfect for me.  If they could only put in a little bubble window at the back it would be teh awesome.
 
2013-02-24 12:01:21 AM

Yuri Futanari: Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?

Not only do I use both, but I have merged the console/couch/PC experience into some sort of twisted abomination of media goodness.  I moved my fancy PC over to behind the couch and hooked it into the projector, I've forgone my old dual monitor setup for over a month now in favor of one giant 120" HD display.  Wireless keyboard is comfy on my lap, the mouse sits on the armrest when I need it - I'm reclined on the couch even as I type.  I sound fat.

For gaming the KB/M still works great, I have no problems with precision in FPS games thanks to the low/wide couch armrests, and for other stuff I can use the wireless 360 controller if I want.  The latter which works especially well for the PS2 and Wii  emulators that run smoothly on the PC, which lets me bump up the resolution of the older games and cut down on load times.  I do own an actual Wii and PS2, but they're in a closet after getting these emulators up and running and my library ported - the PC runs em faster and at higher resolution (though you can only do so much, they look a helluva lot better).

PS3 is on a simple HDMI switch, 360 doesn't get used much anymore since most of the games on that system I want, have been ported to PC and Steam.

/who wants to touch me
// I SAID WHO WANTS TO F-ING TOUCH ME?!
///please...someone...anyone...touch me


What projector?
I've been thinking of going this route when my TV dies. (should be in the next year or so)

Is it warming up the living room too much? Do you need complete darkness or can you open a window and still see the screen?
 
2013-02-24 12:21:09 AM
And a Ferrari cannot compete with a formula one racer, but at that point the average driver isn't going to notice the difference
 
2013-02-24 12:21:22 AM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: I'd rather wait 10 minutes for a game to install on my Playstation then spend an hour tracking down drivers. At least I can do it unattended and do something productive while I wait, like whack off or something.


Hah always one of these failtrolls in these threads.

This isn't DOS where you have to hack at shiat anymore.  Every few months my drivers ask me if I want to upgrade them, other than that I spend zero time doing anything with them.

Also I can play a game while another downloads on Steam.  I installed a game on my 360 a few days ago and it just sits there showing me a progress bar.  Primitive.
 
2013-02-24 12:22:11 AM

Virtual Pariah: Yuri Futanari: Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?

Not only do I use both, but I have merged the console/couch/PC experience into some sort of twisted abomination of media goodness.  I moved my fancy PC over to behind the couch and hooked it into the projector, I've forgone my old dual monitor setup for over a month now in favor of one giant 120" HD display.  Wireless keyboard is comfy on my lap, the mouse sits on the armrest when I need it - I'm reclined on the couch even as I type.  I sound fat.

For gaming the KB/M still works great, I have no problems with precision in FPS games thanks to the low/wide couch armrests, and for other stuff I can use the wireless 360 controller if I want.  The latter which works especially well for the PS2 and Wii  emulators that run smoothly on the PC, which lets me bump up the resolution of the older games and cut down on load times.  I do own an actual Wii and PS2, but they're in a closet after getting these emulators up and running and my library ported - the PC runs em faster and at higher resolution (though you can only do so much, they look a helluva lot better).

PS3 is on a simple HDMI switch, 360 doesn't get used much anymore since most of the games on that system I want, have been ported to PC and Steam.

/who wants to touch me
// I SAID WHO WANTS TO F-ING TOUCH ME?!
///please...someone...anyone...touch me

What projector?
I've been thinking of going this route when my TV dies. (should be in the next year or so)

Is it warming up the living room too much? Do you need complete darkness or can you open a window and still see the screen?


I bought an Epson LCD projector for $1300 about two years ago and it worked really well in most light settings. Lower light will produce better results but I still had an awesome 96 inch screen when the sun was out and the lights were on. Heat and fan noise were never issues, even with the projector mounted on the roof directly above where I normally sat.
 
2013-02-24 12:23:00 AM

Ghastly: With the PC, publishers notoriously lie about the minimum specs needed to run a game just to get you to buy it. So you guy your top of the line gaming PC and it runs all the games that came out the month you bought your PC. Then six months down the line your games download a patch to fix bugs and improve content and now your machine struggles a bit to keep up with the demands. Then another six months and you can completely forget about buying any current games because your ancient 1 year old video card is ridiculously underpowered and obsolete everything in your PC is woefully inadequate for running current games and needs to be upgraded. Repeat every year.


Yeah, that's not true anymore.  My current PC is 6 years old, haven't done anything to it except add a couple of hard drives, and it will still play just about anything I throw at it.  Granted, the newer the game is the more likely I will have to turn some of the settings down, but they're all still perfectly playable and at better quality graphics than their console equivalents.  The days of having to upgrade your PC every year to stay current died off when consoles took over the market.  Since most games these days are cross-platform, developers can't push the envelope graphically the way they used to, because console hardware remains the same.  I imagine when the next generation of consoles is out my PC will no longer be able to keep up with current games, but right now my 6 year old rig is currently running Assassin's Creed 3 with no problems.
 
2013-02-24 12:25:43 AM

dyhchong: The point isn't just gaming.

The point is can you reasonably buy just a console and not have a PC?

Can you reasonably buy just a PC and not have a console?

So regardless, you reasonably need a PC, by having a gaming PC you needn't buy a second PC. But by having a gaming console, you still need to also buy a PC, adding to the cost of ownership of a console.


You're on some serious drugs.  Plenty of people have a PC with no console, AND visa versa.

IF one necessitated the other, you'd then have to budget them together, but because of the wide variety of uses and classes of PC, you can't make that a rule.

Like many people, if you game on a console, your PC needs are pretty negligable.  Word processing and web browsing / email.  That's all people "reasonably" need, and can be obtained quite cheap.  Posting from a 250$ laptop after having played skyrim on 360 all day.

PC's and consoles are two distinct entities with a wide variety of purposes, especially when you figure a mobile laptop into the picture(which, if you were to game on that, it would be doubly expensive), and neither necessitates the other.

I'm not exactly sure why you're so hardcore about not compartmentalizing gaming apart from other computing hobbies or whatever.  All I can figure is that you're a troll, or a wingnut, Poe's Law after all.
 
rpm
2013-02-24 12:26:00 AM

Repo Man: Just read the box, and you'll generally be fine. And isn't the occasional hardware upgrade part of the fun?


"Read the box" is why a few years ago i decided to stick with consoles instead of going back to PC when I was considering.

"May not work with all DVD drives". Fark that noise.

/Now console and GoG/Humble Bundle.
 
2013-02-24 12:36:20 AM
Ghastly:
I have a Gamecube. It still runs every Gamecube game. 10 years from now it will still run every Gamecube game. I have an XBox 360. It runs every Xbox 360 game. 10 years from now it will still run every Xbox game. My windows 7 PC won`t run current generation games worth crap because it`s a little over a year old and now considered obsolete. It also won`t run awesome old games like Interstate `76 because Direct X updates and the operating system are not backwards compatible enough to run the game.


You know, oddly enough a decent computer built in 2000 will run all the games released around it's time.  It will continue to do so with those same games...  Almost like...  your gamecube and it's games... and your xbox and it's games.  I've very rarely had a game's patch that increased the system requirements.  This may be the games I personally play.. but I do play a ton of different genres, including games on consoles.  I've had games ruined on my 360 by a patch.  I've had games ruined on my PC from a patch.  Sometimes the patches cause more errors than they fix.  Welcome to software...  But anyway..  The quoted section of your argument is pretty much pointless.  Console games are now getting patches that are screwing them up just like PC's do.

Also, for price point...  I built a PC, complete build except for HD (that was used from an older system) for $950 or so including all taxes and shipping.  It has lasted me 3 years so far and still runs everything, including FarCry3 on high.  No, I can't hit Ultra settings on games anymore but for the most part "ultra" on a PC is a step higher than any console puts out.  I will most likely get another 2-3 years before I have to drop down another step or two, which will put my graphics on par with the current xbox360 level of games.  So after 6 years, maybe longer if I can milk it somehow, I might have to upgrade my video card for $200-250 or so... you know.. instead of spending $600 on an initial console investment, not including extra controllers, memory sticks, headset, whatever, and then another $600 5-10 years later + more for extras...  In my case, my PC is slightly cheaper in the long run, gets me more fun and more usage from games and the other things a PC does way better than a console, such as browsing the net, reading pdf's, editing pictures, etc.

In the end it's all personal preference.  I currently own a PC, xbox360, ps2, NDSi, and a smattering of older consoles I occasionally break out.  Love them all.  I need a WiiU though.
 
2013-02-24 12:39:10 AM
img191.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-24 12:40:51 AM

namatad: There is no game but WoW.


11 90s here.

5 rep ground. 1 with AC to go. 5 more pending.

Thundering Isle sound like it's gonna rawk.
 
2013-02-24 12:40:58 AM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: I'd rather wait 10 minutes for a game to install on my Playstation then spend an hour tracking down drivers. At least I can do it unattended and do something productive while I wait, like whack off or something.


I've rubbed one out to the PS3 download bar many a time
 
2013-02-24 12:42:20 AM

Virtual Pariah: Is that PC really staying untouched for 5 years?
Or does it get a new videocard in year 3, new OS in years 2 and 4, new HD in year 3, etc etc?
+100.00 or more for office, antivirus and other software not gaming related, but, necessary for the PC experience.
Then add in some cost for a controller unless you never deviate from FPS or RTS. Madden and stuff comes out on PC I believe.
Some things controllers are useful for.

Don't have a preference between platforms, but, the true costs should be called out.


Videocard: I don't need to have bleeding-edge graphics all the time, and while this card isn't top-of-the-line, it's definitely at the prosumer level. It'll last at least three years, but probably longer.

OS: Windows 7 was a little over $100, and I'm sure as hell not going to get into Windows 8. The windows 7 end-of-support lifecycle is Jan 14, 2020 for security critical updates. The general end-of-support date is Jan 12, 2015. Barring some unbelievably killer-app that surfaces between now and 2020, the OS won't need to be replaced for at least another seven years.

Disk drives: I paid a premium for two Intel SSDs because they've got a 5-year warranty. They're also blazing fast, so it's unlikely that I would purchase new storage in that timeframe for any other reason than running out of space. I'm not a digital hoarder though, so I really doubt that'll happen.

Office software: Free through work/school. Not hard to go without if I wanted to (Google Docs, in particular, is a great free alternative that would fit 99% of the average person's use cases, but there are plenty others as well.)

Antivirus: Who pays for antivirus anymore?

Controller: One of the pleasures of PC gaming is not having to use a controller. That said, you could get a nice gamepad for $20 or so, or you could get a 360 controller for about $40.

Other stuff: I bought a top-of-the-line power supply that should last at least five years, if not much longer. Nice big case fans shouldn't have any problem going that long with a bit of regular cleaning. Nothing else on there couldn't be replaced for less than $100. My philosophy is that you pay a little more to get a high quality product to insulate yourself from future risk, so it'd be abnormal for anything to actually break within that time.

My last desktop (which was a stock dell) lasted for 7 years with a minor RAM upgrade and a new video card.  Eventually the motherboard crapped out and it wasn't worth replacing. Got a nice high-end Latitude business-class laptop that's played most of the games I've wanted to do for the last 5 years, and is still serviceable for work/Netflix/Hulu/Pandora/light gaming. It's definitely showing wear, though I've only replaced the battery (was about $50). Those two computers were about 12 years of gaming and general purpose computing for about $2200 in hardware and non-game software over the lifetime of the devices.
 
2013-02-24 12:43:45 AM
I've always had both a console and a PC. But this generation went on so long that even a budget PC outperforms a 360/PS3 handily. Hell, the machine I'm using right now specs about even with what they debuted for the PS4 this week, save for the GDDR5. Hell, if I pull the dedicated video card out and run the built in on the AMD APU, it's a $500 box. Cheaper than the PS3 was at launch, with damn near 10x the storage space and 16x the RAM.

Skyrim on my PS3 looks like trampled shiat compared to Skyrim on a budget box. Hell, only reason I bought the PS3 version was I wanted it at launch and only had a wimpy laptop at the time. Toss some mods into the mix and the PS3 version really looks awful. Granted, that's a year-old PC vs. the console that's been around 5 times as long. But like I said, I'm already at PS4 spec hardware-wise, and we're 10 months or so from PS4 launch. By that time, this box will likely be converted to NAS or a straight up HTPC and I'll have something better to game with.

I can't really recall how long it's been since I've used my PS3 for anything but Netflix or streaming media from my PC to the TV.  It's likely to move to my 5-year-old's room and lose it's spot in the living room to a Roku. That being said, I'll likely own a PS4 at some point, but in no way will it compete or replace my PC.

And lolz @ the "PC's are dying" folks. You think because tablets became a thing everyone tossed their towers? Maybe you did. The rest of us still use real computers.
 
2013-02-24 12:47:31 AM
The real failings of consoles is that their price point is no longer an advantage. Let's say you buy a PS4 for $400 this holiday. Judging by the poor workmanship of modern electronics, you will probably find yourself having it replaced after about 2 years. And judging by how they seem to remain at such a high price point, you can expect your replacement unit to cost about $350. Let's just hope this model has all the launch bugs sorted out...

Meanwhile, even mid-range PCs these days seem to have lifespans of 3-5 years before they cannot meet the minimum system requirements. My Acer box cost about $600 nearly 3 years ago, has had no reliability problems whatsoever, and can still play most games released today. The only upgrade I've done is added a video card, and upgraded the power supply by proxy. Simply put, the days of spending $2000 on a PC system just to have it be entirely obsolete within a year are over.

Finally, for that $600, you get far more value for your money as well. You have a piece of hardware that can do limitless computing tasks, and have a limitless catalog of games as well. This includes services like Steam, GOG, and the growing selection of high quality browser games courtesy of the Unity plugin.
 
2013-02-24 12:47:52 AM

My Brain Hurts: Ghastly:
I have a Gamecube. It still runs every Gamecube game. 10 years from now it will still run every Gamecube game. I have an XBox 360. It runs every Xbox 360 game. 10 years from now it will still run every Xbox game. My windows 7 PC won`t run current generation games worth crap because it`s a little over a year old and now considered obsolete. It also won`t run awesome old games like Interstate `76 because Direct X updates and the operating system are not backwards compatible enough to run the game.


You know, oddly enough a decent computer built in 2000 will run all the games released around it's time.


Not to mention the only thing standing in the way of his current PC being able to play those games is his own lack of knowledge on the subject.

If you want to insert cartridge/disc, play game, shut off machine.... don't use a $2k piece of hardware you don't know how to operate. Enjoy your console and leave the pro gaming to those of us more Glorious.

It's like biatching his lambo doesn't measure up to his ford taurus because he has no clue how to drive the lambo.
 
2013-02-24 12:48:30 AM

Virtual Pariah: What projector?
I've been thinking of going this route when my TV dies. (should be in the next year or so)

Is it warming up the living room too much? Do you need complete darkness or can you open a window and still see the screen?


Right now I'm using the Optomo HD20 which runs $688 now, it was $829 when I bought it last year.  Projector prices have been dropping awesomely the last decade.  The amount of heat this one puts out doesn't change the room temperature, and the fridge in the connected kitchen (I'm in an apt) is louder than the projector that's mounted on the ceiling behind me.  My <i>last</i> projector, a Planar, was a jet engine in both heat and sound - this one has been fantastic.

Darkness wise you get the best picture from the lowest lighting obviously, but it is playable/readable as long as direct light isn't shining on the surface it's projecting onto.  I usually at least close the blinds when I'm running it.  On the Amazon page are some customer pictures where you can see the picture in less-than-optimal lighting.

The other thing to consider is bulb life and replacement cost.  I used to use my projectors pretty sparingly, only a couple hours at a time, because I didn't want to pay through the nose replacing bulbs.  With this new projector I finally sat and did the math on it and realized that if I ran it every single day, for 8 hours a day, I'd only be replacing the bulb every year and a half.  My "monthly" cost in bulb replacements, even with that unrealistically high amount of use (because really, who has eight free hours a night, every night, to sit and watch movies/play games nowadays), would still only be $8.  Once I realized that I switched to this thing full time.

All in all I highly recommend projectors, though the more you use them the smaller old displays start to feel.  This is going to sound snobbish and I don't mean it to be, but I just can't enjoy epic games/movies like Mass Effect or Skyrim on my old monitors anymore, even though one is 27".  That just feels too small to me now, like someone is blocking part of my view the whole time.

/I typed more than I planned
//zzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
2013-02-24 12:53:04 AM
you know ... like anything else, you buy the machine that runs the game you want to play.
I bought a PS2 in order to play katamari damacy. TADA. Perfect combination.
As soon as I was done playing it, gave it to my sister's kids. Never needed it again.

but my PC ....
well I use that 24/7/365 and it runs everything else
 
2013-02-24 12:53:25 AM
Yeah but you have to upgrade your PC every 3 years says the guy who has upgraded to the newest gen Ipad and Iphone at midnight every time apple puts out a new one....


My comp is still running off whatever drivers came with the video card 3 years ago, haven't had to search for new ones yet. I'm surprised noone has said Yeah but I have to make a boot disk and configure my .ini with every new game or w/e the case used to be 20 years ago.
 
2013-02-24 12:53:43 AM

Hyjamon: traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]

what the hell causes that?


PC gaming.
 
2013-02-24 12:54:32 AM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Hell, the machine I'm using right now specs about even with what they debuted for the PS4 this week, save for the GDDR5.


Your average user is not going to hit a bottleneck with DDR3 memory for non-graphics computing tasks, and there's DDR4 available if you really, really need it.

Nice and mid-range PC video cards already use GDDR5, except it's dedicated, so the console still looses this round. I'm not a computer architecture wizard, but my gut instinct is that dedicated DDR3 system and dedicated GDDR5 graphics is better than shared GDDR5 system/graphics. It also means that a nice PC is going to have at least 8GB of system memory and 1-2GB of graphics memory, so a nice current generation PC is in actuality going to have 9-10GB of total memory, and you're going to have a dedicated bus for each.

We don't know the PS4/720 architecture yet, but I'd hate to think that my network stack, OS calls, and just plain application code will have to compete with the graphics card for memory bandwidth. Though really I'd assume they'll have some kind of smart DMA controller or memory segmentation to get around this.
 
2013-02-24 01:00:02 AM

Lsherm: Also, if you don't want to build a virtual machine to run old games on old OSes, Good Old Games has your back:   http://www.gog.com/gamecard/interstate76   All they do is port old games to new OSes.


Holy crap, I went to check out gog, and seen the Apogee sale. I can't believe I was only 11 when Duke 3D came out. My parents were/are strict Catholics, I have no idea how we convinced them to buy that game for us.
 
2013-02-24 01:02:01 AM
I read pretty much the entire thread, but I skimmed a little so spare me if I missed this, but from what I understand, as far as a cost argument goes, most of the "PC gamers" who are arguing that the cost isn't much different are all leaving out one thing. A lot of them are saying "I bought Skyrim for the 360 and I just didn't like it on my console, SO I GOT IT FOR PC!" Sorry, but I have a console Nd I buy something once. Sometimes, I trade it in and get a discount or money back (which, if I remember correctly you can't do with computer games.). So to say that the costs are comparable isn't really true if you do both, which very few PC people have said they don't do.
 
2013-02-24 01:09:30 AM
As far as I can tell, gaming PCs are for shut-ins who want to play 18 hours of some MMO per day, and consoles are for people who otherwise have a life but who want to plug and play some fun games a few hours a week.

Building a pc to play games seems like building a coffee table to play Monopoly on.
 
2013-02-24 01:11:01 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As far as I can tell, gaming PCs are for shut-ins who want to play 18 hours of some MMO per day, and consoles are for people who otherwise have a life but who want to plug and play some fun games a few hours a week.

Building a pc to play games seems like building a coffee table to play Monopoly on.


ITT: The generation of smartphone and social media users asserts that another demographic is hopelessly addicted to technology and the internet.
 
2013-02-24 01:12:35 AM
www.gamasutra.com
Sears! You n00bs.
 
2013-02-24 01:13:47 AM
After mentioning repurposing this machine as a NAS box or HTPC I reminded myself of one of the bigger advantages of the PC. Versatility. I can use a mix of the components I already have and a few new parts and make a new machine with a different purpose. Aside from being what basically amounts to a loud and power-hungry Roku, the PS3 has pretty much reached the end of it's usable life for me. I'm likely to be using the processor and other components in my current desktop for most of the next decade for various things, as I try to do with all of my old hardware. The laptop I bought 2 years ago was hacked up and repurposed into a browser/facebook gamer once the cooling system died (It made for a neat homemade all-in-one pc project and works like a charm with the exposed mobo running nice and cool mounted to the back of the display). There are parts of a machine I built in 2002 still in use around the house... I paid $150 for that AMD 3200+ a decade ago and it's been in near-constant use since then. Currently it lives in the kitchen, and works wonders for keeping me entertained while I'm cooking or cleaning in there (I don't have line-of-sight to the TV from there and I spend 2+ hours a day in the kitchen, easily).

I can ramble on all day, but the jist of it is that I've gotten far more value out of my pc's over the last console generation than I have out of the 360 or PS3. So many possibilities if you know what you're doing.
 
2013-02-24 01:20:43 AM

traylor: Hyjamon: traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]

what the hell causes that?

PC gaming.


mouse callus.
 
2013-02-24 01:21:14 AM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: I'd rather wait 10 minutes for a game to install on my Playstation then spend an hour tracking down drivers. At least I can do it unattended and do something productive while I wait, like whack off or something.


Drivers? You're still using Windows XP aren't you?!
 
2013-02-24 01:28:14 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As far as I can tell, gaming PCs are for shut-ins who want to play 18 hours of some MMO per day, and consoles are for people who otherwise have a life but who want to plug and play some fun games a few hours a week.

Building a pc to play games seems like building a coffee table to play Monopoly on.


PC Gaming is the hot-rodding of the internet era.  Most people can't tinker with cars anymore, so they trick out computers instead.  It's a lot of fun.

I have steadily built mine up over the years because I'm a flight sim guy, but it's a whole lot of cool if you can play Skyrim on three screens at once.  My brother went for six screens, but that's too much.  You can't take it all in unless you're sitting back eight feet.

There's also a fairly justified sense of accomplishment if you build and tinker with your own machine.  You know it inside and out, so you can always fix it, or improve it.  It's a hobby more than anything else.
 
2013-02-24 01:42:37 AM
Firstly gaming PC's DO NOT cost $2000 unless your doing something very exotic like water cooling or multiple monitor setups. You can build a good one for $1000 easily and after the initial investment you only need a few strategic upgrades to keep the machine up to date. Any quad core processor no matter how old will still do the job.  PC's simply aren't going obsolete as quickly as they use to, my intel Core I7-930 is a 4 year old chip and can still easily handle anything I throw at it and I'm not even going to consider upgrading it for many more years. Any Intel Core I5 or I7 of any generation isn't going to go obsolete for the foreseeable future.Video cards are progressing but only very slowly. Even the lowly 7 year old Geforce 8800 will still run anything but the absolute top end games and run them decently.

I have friends still running core 2 quad Q6600 cpu's with Geforce 8800 video cards and they still do a decent job on anything except top tier shooters. And the sheer depth of games you can find on Steam means PC gaming is so much more diverse. I've spent the last week absolutely addicted to this little gem which plays like a game from the 80's and will run on any computer and it's brilliant. And something as simple as minecraft could not have been created on a console where all you get is the this years sequel to the hit game from 3 years ago. And with steam sales I've got piles of games I still haven't played yet and I only paid $4 each for them.

These days all you really have to do is shell out a couple of hundred dollars every couple of years and you'll be able to run any modern PC game. Is it more expensive than consoles? yes it is but not dramatically more expensive.

Is it worth it? Absolutely!
 
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