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(Games Industry International)   Sorry, console fanboys, but no next-gen console will ever out compete a high-end PC again. Truth to the left; Denial to the right   (gamesindustry.biz) divider line 252
    More: Obvious, system console, Crytek, non-disclosure agreement, denials, console wars, Eurogamer  
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6459 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Feb 2013 at 9:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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kab
2013-02-23 09:53:51 PM
That article gets a big "well, no shiat".

Since most games are dev'ed for consoles these days, you now have a scenario where PC hardware is way way ahead of any limitations that might be imposed on it by software.  (which is why you see most video card shootouts using 3 screen setups)

This is actually a pretty good thing for the PC gamer, as it has inevitably brought the price down on what is considered a capable rig.

But this is FARK, home of the 'tablets r teh future' gamer, who still believes that installing games on a PC requires hours of research, sweat and labor.
 
2013-02-23 09:54:46 PM
Yeah PCs are more expensive, more complicated to run, become obsolete much faster (well, need upgrading anyway). So? They also produce better game results, have an enormously better control system and as a bonus you get a farking good pc (good luck doing 3d work, photoshopping or actual work on a console)

Things have a place. I got my PS3 and it is good for what it is good for, but better than my PC? never not ever.
 
kab
2013-02-23 09:55:11 PM

Repo Man: If your video card is more than six months old, it's out of date.


This statement hasn't been relevant in years.
 
2013-02-23 09:57:22 PM

Repo Man: jake_lex: Shostie: I don't think anyone who buys a console wants it to out-perform a PC. They just want a machine they can play games on without a whole lot of hassle.

This.  I don't want to buy a game, get it home, and discover my computer's video card is out of date after I've opened the box, thus making it impossible for me to return the software.

If your video card is more than six months old, it's out of date. But how old would it have to be to not run a new release at all? Pretty goddamned old for the most part. PC games are set up to run on a spectrum of hardware, from barely running on the minimum spec, to smooth as butter with all of the pretty turned on at the bleeding edge. Just read the box, and you'll generally be fine. And isn't the occasional hardware upgrade part of the fun?


I'm running two ATI 5870s that are both three years old, and they don't have an issue with newer games.  Video cards are so insanely powerful these days that you don't need to upgrade them once a year like you used to.
 
2013-02-23 09:58:38 PM
gaspode: Yeah PCs are more expensive, more complicated to run, become obsolete much faster (well, need upgrading anyway). So? They also produce better game results, have an enormously better control system and as a bonus you get a farking good pc

If I were to build another gaming box, it would be separate from my workstation.

// glorious *.* gaming master race (who unfortunately doesn't have as much time for gaming as he used to)
 
2013-02-23 09:59:47 PM
I would just like to remind everyone that PC Gaming Master Race™ became a misnomer when Steam opened the device to just about everyone and the most popular games became things like Defense of the Ancients, Team Fortress 2, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Minecraft, and so forth.  That is all.
 
2013-02-23 10:01:07 PM
I just built a very nice gaming PC during the black Friday season for about $1000, and it's already as good or better than the next gen consoles, if the rumor mill is right about their specs. It should last at least 5 years without upgrading any components, and when I do it'll probably only be $200 or so for a new video card.

The best part about it is that all the games I've bought have been on a Steam sale, and the graphics card came with three free games (all of which I wanted) so I've saved about $150 in game prices over the console equivalent. Over the course of 5 years I'm certain that the total cost of ownership will be much lower for the PC than it will for the console.

Game Price - PC vs 360 at time of purchase
Skyrim - $30 vs $60
Borderlands 2 - $30 vs $60
Deus Ex Human Revolution - $5 vs $30
Far Cry 3 - Free vs$ 60
Hitman Absolution - Free vs $60
Sleeping Dogs - Free vs $50
Extra spent on video card to get games bundle - $100
Total: $165 vs $320

I also have access to a whole bundle of really cheap PC games that are simply fantastic, that you either couldn't or wouldn't play on a console. Not all of the following times are since last November.

Game - Price - Time on Steam
Team Fortress 2 - Free - 77hrs
Natural Selection 2 - $15 - 61hrs
Red Orchestra 2 - $10 - 20hrs
DCS A10-C - $20 - not available
Torchlight II - $20 - 17hrs
Terraria - $3 - 151hrs (secret shame)
SpaceChem - $5 - 7hrs
FTL - $5 - 15hrs
SPAZ - $5 - 36hrs
STALKER franchise - $30 - 60hrs
Total - $113 - 426hrs - $0.27 per hour

Even if you played 100 hours of multiplayer per AAA console game you got, you'd still only get about $0.50 per hour at $60 per AAA console game.
 
2013-02-23 10:03:41 PM

coco ebert: Is this like a thing people argue about?


Frat boys get really pissy when you point out that their consoles suck.

"B-b-b-but MADDEN!!!"
 
2013-02-23 10:05:41 PM

kab: Repo Man: If your video card is more than six months old, it's out of date.

This statement hasn't been relevant in years.




As I said out of date doesn't mean it won't run most games just fine. It does mean that something newer and better has been released. You don't have to get it, just as no one has to run the most up to the minute cards in a triple SLI setup. How long you can go between upgrades has always been a subjective choice.
 
2013-02-23 10:05:51 PM
If your video card is more than six months old, it's out of date. But how old would it have to be to not run a new release at all? Pretty goddamned old for the most part. PC games are set up to run on a spectrum of hardware, from barely running on the minimum spec, to smooth as butter with all of the pretty turned on at the bleeding edge. Just read the box, and you'll generally be fine. And isn't the occasional hardware upgrade part of the fun?

Not to mention- cross platform development is pretty much done for all major titles these days, which means that any gaming PC built after the release of a console will be able to play all those cross-platform games as long as the console is still around. I've got a circa 2007 graphics card that I just got out of storage that still runs a lot of modern games on very low settings, because it's still better than what was released with the console.
 
2013-02-23 10:06:02 PM
We can get along.

WE CAN GET ALONG.

CELEBRATE DIVERSITY.

/cries
 
2013-02-23 10:06:45 PM

Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?


No, I do too.  But the PC vs Console argument is stupid.  It made sense when you were comparing an NES to a 386, but now?  Who cares?  The modern console is just a specialized PC for non-techies.
 
2013-02-23 10:10:37 PM

gaspode: become obsolete much faster (well, need upgrading anyway)


Become obsolete versus the current-gen PC tech, but still way ahead of what the console was built with, and as long as you're ahead of the console tech you'll still be able to play most of the cross-platform releases.

The 360 was released in 2004, and the gap in time it takes to get the supply chain up and running after system design means that it was already behind the bleeding edge on day-1. All the 360's of the world are probably running late 2003 or early 2004 tech in terms of PC evolution.
 
2013-02-23 10:12:02 PM
Unless you're in the arcade, you're not a true gamer.
 
2013-02-23 10:12:07 PM

Fubini: Far Cry 3 - Free vs$ 60


I am loving Far Cry 3.  I had to pay $30 for it though.  When were they offering it for free?
 
2013-02-23 10:12:51 PM
$2000 PC or $500 Playstation/$300 Xbox?

It seems pretty clear to me which will be more popular
 
2013-02-23 10:13:30 PM

jakepowers: $2000 PC or $500 Playstation/$300 Xbox?

It seems pretty clear to me which will be more popular


I didn't bother reading the article but THIS.

/the PC is dying
 
2013-02-23 10:15:21 PM
1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2013-02-23 10:16:23 PM

Lsherm: Fubini: Far Cry 3 - Free vs$ 60

I am loving Far Cry 3.  I had to pay $30 for it though.  When were they offering it for free?


It came as a freebie for relatively high-end ATI video cards late last year.
 
2013-02-23 10:19:11 PM
www.mopo.ca
 
2013-02-23 10:19:40 PM

Snapper Carr: Am I the only person who uses both?

Consoles are fine for the vast majority of games but there are certain types of games that you really need a PC to get the most out of - I think if I tried to play a Civ game with a PS3 controller I would lose my mind. Also some games just feel right on a PC platform (most recent example I can think of is XCom:Enemy Unknown). PS3 demo left me kinda meh but playing the PC version just felt like I was home


Yep. I play RTS, tower defense, and Four X games on my computer, and I use a console for everything else. I don't have to buy too expensive a computer to run Civ, Warhammer, and Plants vs. Zombies on my computer, so it ends up being pretty cost-effective for me. I like that my console is always guaranteed to run the games that I buy for it at its optimal settings, as silly as that might sound.
 
2013-02-23 10:19:52 PM
Guess what guise?

Tesla just released a $100,000 electric car.

I am declaring the $10,000 gasoline car dead - it is obvious that no one will ever buy these obsolescent pieces of crap again.

/why can't we just have both?
 
2013-02-23 10:26:20 PM
Didn't read the thread so this was probably covered, but I can't build a gaming quality PC for $300.
 
2013-02-23 10:29:34 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: I gave up pc gaming once I hooked the xbox up to a nice big screen tv and played it kicked back in a nice comfortable chair.

nows theres nothing on my lap except your mom.


You can't connect your PC to your big screen TV? LOL noob.
 
2013-02-23 10:31:27 PM

traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]


what the hell causes that?
 
2013-02-23 10:34:17 PM

Hyjamon: traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]

what the hell causes that?


The edge of your computer table.
 
2013-02-23 10:35:48 PM

GAT_00: I'll say what I said last time we did this: PC markets will never die because games like Crusader Kings will never work on consoles, and there's plenty of market for grand strategy games.

Relatively Obscure: JUST got my first PC that could qualify as high..ish.. end. It's lovely, but the price tag was not.

Did you buy it assembled or build it yourself?  I have an 8GB RAM system, 1GB GeForce 460 SE card, and a 6 core, 3.2GB processor.  Admittedly the RAM is a bit slower, I think it's 1333 RAM, but I still only spent 1K on all that.


Stop, just stop.

Anyway, for Console Gamers, do you also own a PC? How much did you pay for that? Add that cost to your console because you still own a PC regardless.

For me, I stay just behind the curve and thus pay almost nothing. My HD 6870 is still going strong, plays everything new at 1080 on high settings, and I got it for $180(NZD, about 130/140USD) two years ago. Coupled with a 2500K.

I have it attached to dual monitors on a desk, which wraps around through HDMI to a 50" 1920x1080 screen facing the couch, where I have an Xbox 360 wireless controller dongle hidden. I don't have to search for Drivers. Software doesn't use drivers. And if I do add new hardware, Windows automatically finds the drivers for me unless I want the latest GPU drivers (which I'm too lazy to install, yet still don't have any issues with games).

I have Steam installed, where I pay a pittance for games, especially during a sale and everything just works whilst keeping itself updated.

I can play every common/uncommon file format. I can centralise all my data and access with ease. I can also do my work on this computer.
 
2013-02-23 10:37:00 PM

jakepowers: $2000 PC or $500 Playstation/$300 Xbox?

It seems pretty clear to me which will be more popular


I did a LOT of bargain hunting during the last black Friday system, so most people would end up paying 20-30% more for this system, but this is what I got for less than $1100 last November.

Intel Core i5 w/ 4 cores @ 3.4GHz each
AMD 7870 from Gigabyte w/ 2GB DDR5 dedicated graphics RAM
8 Gigs 1600MHz DDR4 dedicated system RAM
360Gigs of Intel SSD storage ( 2 x 180GB)

Speculated PS4 specs:
AMD 8-cores at mid-level performance
GPU equivalent to a AMD 7850
8 Gigs DDR5 of shared System/Graphics RAM
No SSD

So my system is pretty clearly better, and you'll be able to build it for $1000 or less by the time the PS4 hits the market, and the games will be substantially cheaper, on average, unless you're buying everything on release day. (In which case you probably aren't that cost-sensitive.)

I fully expect the total cost of ownership to be much less than a next-gen console.
 
2013-02-23 10:39:05 PM
The games may look prettier on the PC but the selection blows.

Most of my favorite games are console exclusives. Seems a lot of those popular PC games are just ports from consoles these days.
 
2013-02-23 10:45:08 PM
Main thing I hate about console gaming:  Load times.  That being said, I think there's a market for both.  Sometimes I just want to sit on a couch with a controller in my hand, and sometimes I want to sit at a desk and game with a mouse and keyboard.
 
2013-02-23 10:48:22 PM

revrendjim: Didn't read the thread so this was probably covered, but I can't build a gaming quality PC for $300.


But then you pay twice as much for all the games you buy. I have about 15 games in my 360 library, and if I were able to save $30 on all of them that'd be $450 in savings. I don't normally pay $60 for a game, but I do for some, so assume they cost $50 each:

$300 for console
$900 in games @ $60 each x 15
$120 in controllers @ $40 x 3
$200 in XBL @ $40 x 5 years

So the total is $1520 over five years. The PC premium isn't much more than that:

$1100 for a very nice PC
$450 in games @ $30 each x 15
No controllers
No XBL

For a total of $1550 over five years.

I was able to get Borderlands 2 for $30 on Steam less than 2 months or so after release.
 
2013-02-23 10:50:36 PM

Fubini: assume they cost $50 each


Woops, the total for the console over 5 years should be $1370.
 
2013-02-23 10:51:28 PM

traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]


Guilty as charged.
 
2013-02-23 10:52:14 PM
1080p.

That's all a console has to render to... and do it in full 3D. Hardware available for a dedicated $400 console should be able to handle it at full feature-level rendering @ 60fps.

Gaming PCs, on the other hand, will be driven to render to multiple 2560x1440 displays, on top of an operating system that grows more and more "active" underneath the game as security becomes more and more sophisticated.

In short, while gaming rigs will continue to have to match higher and higher specs, consoles have a fairly fixed target. 4K displays may not become mainstream for another 10 years (is there really a need for this in the home?) or more. I don't see a high percentage of chance of consoles ever supporting multiple monitors in the future generations, either.
 
2013-02-23 10:53:11 PM

Relatively Obscure: I was going to assemble it myself originally (I can and have, but.. I can't say I specifically LIKE to)


I don't do it anymore for one simple reason.  If something farks up, I can typically send the whole thing back.  I don't have to worry about ESD or bending a pin/scratching a contact/etc.

Few things compare to a tower that just sits there because you had to return a stick of ram or a hdd.  Worth the tad extra, IF it's extra.  Most places that custom configure are pretty damned reasonable. (Well, the high traffic sites(IE cyberpower), plenty of ma&pa type stores that charge out the wazoo).  Unless you're a serious bargain bin hunter, you're not saving a huge bundle.

It all falls apart of course if you're picky on the motherboard or otherwise really into specific parts that are outside the configurators.

______________________

As to the article.  As if someone said the console was better....Pointless article is pointless.  Bang for your buck, consoles win out, and multiplayer / friendslists / guests / comfort factor.  Otherwise PC's win out with sheer power at the cost.

Who in their right mind does not know this?  Who is that article for?


dyhchong: Add that cost to your console because you still own a PC regardless.


No.  If there were some sort of interoperability with games then maybe.  But no.
They mimic eachother, but do not really add to the experience at all, either or.  About all you can do with a PC is mod gamesaves and stream movies.  Other than that it's irrelevant to the console and not part of the cost.
 
2013-02-23 10:56:16 PM

Fubini: revrendjim: Didn't read the thread so this was probably covered, but I can't build a gaming quality PC for $300.

But then you pay twice as much for all the games you buy. I have about 15 games in my 360 library, and if I were able to save $30 on all of them that'd be $450 in savings. I don't normally pay $60 for a game, but I do for some, so assume they cost $50 each:

$300 for console
$900 in games @ $60 each x 15
$120 in controllers @ $40 x 3
$200 in XBL @ $40 x 5 years

So the total is $1520 over five years. The PC premium isn't much more than that:

$1100 for a very nice PC
$450 in games @ $30 each x 15
No controllers
No XBL

For a total of $1550 over five years.

I was able to get Borderlands 2 for $30 on Steam less than 2 months or so after release.


You can add another $500 or so to the console crowd to pay for the computer that they need to do things like word processing and photo editing.
 
2013-02-23 10:57:43 PM

dyhchong: Stop, just stop.


What, I'm not allowed to be proud of my only slightly behind the edge computer?
 
2013-02-23 11:01:18 PM

omeganuepsilon: Relatively Obscure: I was going to assemble it myself originally (I can and have, but.. I can't say I specifically LIKE to)

I don't do it anymore for one simple reason.  If something farks up, I can typically send the whole thing back.  I don't have to worry about ESD or bending a pin/scratching a contact/etc.

Few things compare to a tower that just sits there because you had to return a stick of ram or a hdd.  Worth the tad extra, IF it's extra.  Most places that custom configure are pretty damned reasonable. (Well, the high traffic sites(IE cyberpower), plenty of ma&pa type stores that charge out the wazoo).  Unless you're a serious bargain bin hunter, you're not saving a huge bundle.

It all falls apart of course if you're picky on the motherboard or otherwise really into specific parts that are outside the configurators.

______________________

As to the article.  As if someone said the console was better....Pointless article is pointless.  Bang for your buck, consoles win out, and multiplayer / friendslists / guests / comfort factor.  Otherwise PC's win out with sheer power at the cost.

Who in their right mind does not know this?  Who is that article for?


dyhchong: Add that cost to your console because you still own a PC regardless.

No.  If there were some sort of interoperability with games then maybe.  But no.
They mimic eachother, but do not really add to the experience at all, either or.  About all you can do with a PC is mod gamesaves and stream movies.  Other than that it's irrelevant to the console and not part of the cost.


The point isn't just gaming.

The point is can you reasonably buy just a console and not have a PC?

Can you reasonably buy just a PC and not have a console?

So regardless, you reasonably need a PC, by having a gaming PC you needn't buy a second PC. But by having a gaming console, you still need to also buy a PC, adding to the cost of ownership of a console.
 
2013-02-23 11:05:20 PM
Properly built and setup, a computer does everything your host of electronic devices attempt to do except better and often simultaneously. Consoles are an electronic device for playing video games. I do not expect them to be media machines, for browsing online, boxes to mod, for live streaming of sports, downloading files, social networking, working on reports and research, collaborating on projects, talking or videochatting with others, and emulating old games simultaneously. Besides, FPS, RTS, and MMOs in general are better on the PC due to our expectation of contouring game settings alongside mouse and keyboard. But, I do not expect my 360 to do this; I expect my 360 to let me play Rock Band in the living room and my PS2 to run Ico and Shadow of the Colossus when I want.
 
2013-02-23 11:07:55 PM

LesserEvil: 4K displays may not become mainstream for another 10 years (is there really a need for this in the home?)


Cnet had an article that said the human eye was physically incapable of telling the difference until screen sizes got above 55 inches, at which point you need a whole lotta room to sit farther back from the TV.  So I guess they make the most sense for people with large family rooms or dedicated theater rooms.
 
2013-02-23 11:08:52 PM

Relatively Obscure: consoles are quite a lot cheaper and do a pretty good job of being perfectly fun.


This should, honestly, be the conversation ender.
 
2013-02-23 11:10:27 PM

Fubini: Fubini: assume they cost $50 each

Woops, the total for the console over 5 years should be $1370.


There is still wisdom in your words. Ten years ago I built my own boxes. I shall contemplate this.
 
2013-02-23 11:13:34 PM

meanmutton: Relatively Obscure: consoles are quite a lot cheaper and do a pretty good job of being perfectly fun.

This should, honestly, be the conversation ender.


And this. Saints Row the Third is currently on the xbox and I'm having tons of fun.
 
2013-02-23 11:14:59 PM
A few points:

1. You can use a mouse and keyboard on the PS3. There are a few games that support it, too.
2. You can use a gamepad (the Xbox 360 wireless version, in fact) with a PC. Most Windows action games support it.
3. PCs are good for FPS (if you're a keyboard/mouse fan), RPGs, RTS, and other point-and-click games.
4. Consoles are good for action, sports, platformer, JRPGs, motion-control, and puzzle games.
5. There's no law in any state that makes it a crime to own both a PC and console.
6. Likewise, no law exists that forbids playing games on both a PC and a console.
7. Your (wife/kid/mom/grandma) hates trying to make PC games work. That's why you have a console.
8. You hate arguing over who gets to use the HDTV. That's why you have a PC.
9. Everybody plays games now. They're mainstream. The imaginary line between "gamers" and "nongamers" is bullshiat.
10. Like it or not, games like Angry Birds, Farmville, Cut the Rope, and Fruit Ninja  are "real" videogames, and no biatching about how "real" gamers only play Call of Duty, Crysis, and World of Warcraft is going to change the fact that casual gaming has been more popular than twitch/FPS gaming since the invention of Pong, followed by the popularity of Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Tetris, Myst, Lemmings, and thousands of other casual titles that were played by more people than any FPS or RTS, ever.

Dig it.
 
2013-02-23 11:15:57 PM
All I care about is being able to play Super Mario 3, I don't give a poop what I do it on. I just use the laptop I won at a Christmas party and a USB NES controller. I hook the whole mess up to the TV and viola! It's just like when I was a kid and gaming was an amusing pastime as opposed to a pissing contest/money pit.
 
2013-02-23 11:18:57 PM

omeganuepsilon: Few things compare to a tower that just sits there because you had to return a stick of ram or a hdd. Worth the tad extra, IF it's extra. Most places that custom configure are pretty damned reasonable. (Well, the high traffic sites(IE cyberpower), plenty of ma&pa type stores that charge out the wazoo). Unless you're a serious bargain bin hunter, you're not saving a huge bundle.


Cyberpower frightens me.  Their website kills any techboner I might have at the time, for some reason.
 
2013-02-23 11:20:38 PM

GAT_00: dyhchong: Stop, just stop.

What, I'm not allowed to be proud of my only slightly behind the edge computer?


RAM Capacity = pointless unless it's a bottleneck. If it's not, more won't actually have any effect on performance. (and it's like $5 a gig)
RAM Frequency = pointless except for specific tasks. You won't see any difference going from 1333MHz to 1600MHz unless you're timing how long it takes to unRAR a big file.
The AMD Phenom II X6s are quite crappy, they have far lower IPC than Sandy Bridge onwards, so the clock rate (in GHz, not GB) is irrelevant unless you're comparing very close neighbours. The Pentium Ds, with their two cores were clocked close to 4GHz, yet they're rivaled by Atoms at 1.6GHz these days.

Most important components for determining gaming performance is CPU/GPU and whether you have enough RAM, but if you're not using more than 4GB, you won't see any speedbump going to 16/32 or 64GB of RAM.

What your storage medium is can also have an effect in that your computer can boot faster and loading times in games that load between levels but it won't increase your frames, number of characters onscreen or image quality that improving the other two will.
 
2013-02-23 11:21:13 PM

ZeroCorpse: 0. Like it or not, games like Angry Birds, Farmville, Cut the Rope, and Fruit Ninja are "real" videogames, and no biatching about how "real" gamers only play Call of Duty, Crysis, and World of Warcraft is going to change the fact that casual gaming has been more popular than twitch/FPS gaming since the invention of Pong, followed by the popularity of Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Tetris, Myst, Lemmings, and thousands of other casual titles that were played by more people than any FPS or RTS, ever.


I dislike Angry Birds, Farmville, Call of Duty AND World of Warcraft.  I DON'T KNOW WHERE I FIT IN! :'(
 
2013-02-23 11:24:28 PM

Fubini: FTL


I'm convinced that's a troll game. Got my ass handed to me every time I got to the 2nd boss fight. On EASY. I had to uninstall it because I was concerned I was going to start breaking shiat.
Also another game I can't imagine trying to play with a console controller.
 
2013-02-23 11:25:06 PM
Did they follow up by asking him whether a taurus could compete with a ferrari?
 
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