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(Jalopnik)   Insane crash marks end of Nationwide race at Daytona. Debris in stands, multiple injuries reported   (jalopnik.com) divider line 262
    More: Scary, Daytona, Regan Smith, injuries  
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18804 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-23 06:01:22 PM
5 votes:

Shadow Blasko: RandomRandom: NASCAR doesn't spend their own money on safety R&D. NASCAR waits for Indycar, road racing, or the FIA to develop a system, then, sometimes as much as a decade later, triumph's "their" new (decade old) safety system.

Holy crap.. You could not be more wrong.


He may be wrong about that part, but NASCAR will not implement safety measures until someone his hurt or killed.

The HANS device, for example... should have been in use long before Dale Earnhardt was killed. 3 drivers had already died of similar injuries before Feb. 18, 2001. But it wasn't. Tey needed their biggest star's brainstem ripped apart before they would do something.

Roof flaps were developed and used by Roush but NASCAR would not allow their use until after Rusty Wallace's crashes in 1993 (IIRC).

NASCAR needs blood on its hands to do anything involving safety.
2013-02-23 05:31:28 PM
5 votes:

mjones73: How the hell would you put a cable on a tire?


It's not connected to the tire itself, but to the steering knuckle or hub. When a wheel is ripped loose like that it isn't the lug nuts that give- it's the attachment of the suspension components that breaks. With a strap or cable to the frame of the vehicle it increases the chance that the wheel won't go flying.

F1 has used them for several years.
2013-02-23 05:18:54 PM
5 votes:

BunkyBrewman: WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.

Cars have hit that fence scraped along it for 50 yards and it has held. It has held as car parts the size of a dinner table fly into it. It has held as cars have rolled up into it.

Yet it didn't hold today.


But it DID keep the actual car from coming inside the fence, which would've resulted in tens of deaths. The Catchfence's job is to catch debris and the car, and for only those pieces to make it through after a 3,400 lbs car hit it at 150 MPH, then I'd say it pretty damn good job.
2013-02-23 06:09:30 PM
4 votes:
Part of the issue with NASCAR is they refuse to let anyone succeed by actually having a better car and/or engine. When Petty was dominating way back in the day, they outlawed Chrysler's engine. A few years back when Dodge, or was it Toyota, had cars that were getting through the air better than the others NASCAR forced them to make a change no one else had to make. Instead of telling the people with the slower/worse stuff to suck it up and make better stuff they've always been after punishing anyone who figures out how to do better than the pack.
2013-02-23 06:04:13 PM
4 votes:

thorthor: Lets talk about fan riots at soccer stadiums.


Or grandstand fires. From the first flames, it took about 5 minutes to get to this point. Bradford Disaster.
www.chack.co.uk
2013-02-23 04:54:56 PM
4 votes:
Jesus, that's awful. I know that race fans love crashes (whether they admit or not) but there comes a point when a crash is no longer entertainment.
2013-02-23 04:46:54 PM
4 votes:
Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.
2013-02-24 02:46:51 AM
3 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: MisterRonbo: I also would hardly call it panic mode.  They have a valuable brand.  They want to protect it.  Heck, video of crashes is in itself a highly valuable property and they may want to sell crash videos, who knows.

You can go on Youtube and find all kinds of spectator shot videos of pretty much every race in the past 5 years. NASCAR doesn't give a crap about any of those being up, they obviously cared about this one.


I agree, NASCAR was in panic mode.

Google has now reversed NASCAR's copyright claim and has made the fan video live again.  Google says NASCAR does not have a valid copyright claim on this video. Good on Google.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW65Tyji_s&feature=youtu.be
2013-02-24 12:59:04 AM
3 votes:
After reading the comments here, I really am shocked at the ignorance of people when it comes to NASCAR.  This was the Nationwide series, NASCAR's minor league circuit.  The cars were  completely redesigned last year for this series to make them safer for the drivers.  This crash happened at one of the few places on the track fence that has a gate built into it.  The fence is reenforced by two inch steel cable run horizontally every three feet.  At the gates, the cables are looped and held together by large pins. and more cables.  This car hit just right and it ripped the front end off of it.  The tire, hub, brake and suspension assembly flew into the stands and hurt these people.  It took FIVE men to carry it down to the truck.  The fence did what it was designed to do, it stopped the car itself from going into the stands and kept the engine from killing someone.  Saying all of that, Daytona is one of two super speedways on the circuit, the other is Talladega.  Carl Edwards' car went airborne a few years back and the fence kept him from going into the crowd.  He did not hit near the gate area.  I see a change in the fence coming possibly removing the gates and changing the fence material close to the crowd to something stronger.  NASCAR learns very quickly from crashes and will respond by making a change.  The year that Edwards flew into the fence, a rule change went into effect putting a spoiler on the car instead of a wing that caught air when the cars spun around.  The big race is tomorrow, with faster and more powerful cars with mostly more experienced drivers.  I understand that many people look at race fans as ignorant rednecks, but some of us are college educated with many years of mechanical experience.  How many people are injured at baseball games every year from foul balls?  I know that I am going to get flame-sprayed by the trolls out there, but I had to say something.  By the way, I was supposed to be at that race and had to cancel because of medical issues. The tire came to rest just a few rows from where I sat for this race last year, and would have been today.
2013-02-23 09:05:12 PM
3 votes:

rhiannon: Triumph: Triumph: If half your car crosses the finish line in the form of debris, what's the ruling?

Popcorn Johnny: Fan video of the wreck from the infield.

Popcorn Johnny: I just realized that the #32 car finished the race.

I'm still waiting on a definitive ruling.

[l2.yimg.com image 512x388]

"I won...I guess."

[img.photobucket.com image 512x388]

"they puttin' mustard on that?"


It's kinda sad they treat the farking trophy as just another piece of advertising for the cameras, rather than something tasteful that a human might not of ashamed to display in the home. That thing looks like a beer ad from the front counter of a liquor store.
2013-02-23 05:55:24 PM
3 votes:
These aren't real races.

Daytona and Talladega should either be cut down bankingwise or bulldozed and replaced by two short tracks.

And NASCAR has been using their shiatty restrictor plates since 1988, because Bobby Allison tore the shiatty catchfence down at Talladega. But the plates don't work, they just bunch the cars up and make acidents like this possible.

fark NASCAR, they want dead fans and drivers, because they';ve had 25 years to fix this problem and haven't.
2013-02-23 05:54:39 PM
3 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: hink of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars. Hint: most of them started in racing.


True, many automotive safety systems were designed for racing.  Very few road car safety systems were invented by or for NASCAR.

NASCAR doesn't spend their own money on safety R&D.  NASCAR waits for Indycar, road racing, or the FIA to develop a system, then, sometimes as much as a decade later, triumph's "their" new (decade old) safety system.

/NASCAR's insurers need to send them a wake-up call.  In the form of 10x rates.
2013-02-23 05:54:00 PM
3 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: BeSerious: I hope they ban the sport.

/crosses fingers.

I don't watch it, or even appreciate it as a sport, but it does a lot of good for society.  Think of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars.  Hint: most of them started in racing. on the S Class and Volvos



That being said I wish NASCAR went back to being stock car like the Le Mans GT classes. The whole point of NASCAR being a manufacture series and requiring 500 units to be sold is gone, whats the point of a V8 rear wheel drive "Camry"? Either that or go F1 and have a common body
2013-02-23 05:42:34 PM
3 votes:

BeSerious: I hope they ban the sport.

/crosses fingers.


I don't watch it, or even appreciate it as a sport, but it does a lot of good for society.  Think of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars.  Hint: most of them started in racing.
2013-02-23 05:36:47 PM
3 votes:
NASCAR is too busy getting videos removed from Youtube to worry about a press conference.
2013-02-23 05:08:48 PM
3 votes:

milowitz: Popcorn Johnny: A tire rocketed through the fence and into the stands, not good at all.

Yeah. Fortunately the cars were slowed somewhat but after the car took out the fence the tire flew right on through without obstruction.


Looked more to me like it went OVER
2013-02-23 04:46:44 PM
3 votes:
That tire and wheel combo weight around 90 pounds...flying at 200 MPH. I have not heard Mike Helton sound like that since he announced Earnhardt died. Someone..if not multiple people died in those stands today..I'm pretty confident of that.
2013-02-23 04:42:54 PM
3 votes:
nascar and buttsucking espn go into full lawsuit avoidance mode.
2013-02-24 05:46:11 AM
2 votes:

nymersic: What's this whole deal with people wanting to blame a particular driver for this?  Everyone out there, drivers and fans alike, are equally to blame (except perhaps the kids, like the one in critical condition - you could argue they don't know any better).

Races are fast.  Races are entertaining because they're fast.  They're entertaining because with speed comes danger - it's the same thing that makes a roller coaster entertaining, the perception of danger.  You put yourself in dangerous positions for entertainment, even if it's only a slim chance of bad stuff happening to you, then you get what's coming to you.  Bad luck, sorry bro, you just got a tire to the face.  My condolences.

I don't have a problem with these races.  I'm not a fan, but in a way, I like them.  Danger is cool and fun.  I just wish people wouldn't point fingers and try to assign blame.  Shiat happens; get a helmet.  If you can't take thIf you can'Shiat happens; get a helmet.


  There's an assumption of risk at baseball games and hockey games because you know that things go flying every game. I doubt the average person going to a race expects debris flying at them at 200mph. Look at how many people in this thread keep insisting that the fencing isn't a problem. People go to races assuming that the fence system is designed so shiat doesn't come flying. I don't think you can really make a particularly strong case that this sort of event is part of ordinary assumption of risk.

I'm not somebody who lives an existence hiding from any and all danger--I've ridden (and crashed) motorbikes in SE Asia, which some might say suggests a death wish. That said, if I were to go to a race, I wouldn't go expecting that watching was putting my life in danger and that I was risking bodily harm. After all, NASCAR tells me the fences make it safe. Heck, they're so convinced it's safe they aren't even changing the setup for the main race. If they're acting like it's safe, why should fans expect differently?
2013-02-24 02:13:03 AM
2 votes:

MisterRonbo: I also would hardly call it panic mode.  They have a valuable brand.  They want to protect it.  Heck, video of crashes is in itself a highly valuable property and they may want to sell crash videos, who knows.


You can go on Youtube and find all kinds of spectator shot videos of pretty much every race in the past 5 years. NASCAR doesn't give a crap about any of those being up, they obviously cared about this one.
2013-02-24 12:55:06 AM
2 votes:

MisterRonbo: Not if you're shooting someone else's copyrighted material.  Gee, you thought you could shoot cam in that movie theater? Or at a performance by that stand-up comic?


Streaming a movie and posting it online is a hell of a lot different than a brief clip of a sporting event. There are countless clips from baseball, football, hockey and other sports on Youtube and I've never seen anybody biatch. NASCAR was in panic mode and foolishly trying to wipe out all video of the accident as if they actually could.
2013-02-24 12:34:21 AM
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: So now video you shoot on your phone isn't even yours?


Not if you're shooting someone else's copyrighted material.  Gee, you thought you could shoot cam in that movie theater? Or at a performance by that stand-up comic?

No.  Not yours. Any more than you could sell a book because you made copies on your photocopier.
2013-02-24 12:09:57 AM
2 votes:

mcmnky: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER:
[www.sftv.com.au image 499x266]

"Transparent aluminum?  So. Is it worth something ta ya...or should I just...punch up clear?"

Why did it have to be transparent?  Were they worried about forgetting there was a whale in the tank if they couldn't see it?


They didn't USE transparent aluminum to build the tank ("It would take years just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix!"), they bartered the formula for it for the plexiglass to build the tank _with_.  I seem to recall in the novelization they already knew the guy was going to go on to invent it down the road anyway, so they were basically closing the loop.
2013-02-23 11:22:48 PM
2 votes:
What's this whole deal with people wanting to blame a particular driver for this?  Everyone out there, drivers and fans alike, are equally to blame (except perhaps the kids, like the one in critical condition - you could argue they don't know any better).

Races are fast.  Races are entertaining because they're fast.  They're entertaining because with speed comes danger - it's the same thing that makes a roller coaster entertaining, the perception of danger.  You put yourself in dangerous positions for entertainment, even if it's only a slim chance of bad stuff happening to you, then you get what's coming to you.  Bad luck, sorry bro, you just got a tire to the face.  My condolences.

I don't have a problem with these races.  I'm not a fan, but in a way, I like them.  Danger is cool and fun.  I just wish people wouldn't point fingers and try to assign blame.  Shiat happens; get a helmet.  If you can't take the heat, get out...  oh well, you know.
2013-02-23 10:20:11 PM
2 votes:
the guy that ripped his grey T-shirt off to attend to the wounded should be recognized and turned into a meme immediately. Most people run away, homey stood up. Thanks, mister grey shirt guy.

We could all learn a lot from you
2013-02-23 08:49:17 PM
2 votes:

Captain Steroid: Why is it, whenever the Baltimore Ravens win the Super Bowl, someone DIES at Daytona?

I don't like this tradition! :-(


The injured person died? That sucks. I can't fathom just going to the track for a saturday afternoon race before the big event and having your life turned upside-down like that.

/yeah, tragedy can strike at any time (especially at a Nascar event), but man, that's shiatty
//RIP person I did not know but who had loved ones nonetheless
2013-02-23 07:50:30 PM
2 votes:

GAT_00: Shadow Blasko: GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

Its a bit more than a chain link fence..

WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

it's not exactly a regular chain link fence

It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.


Having been pretty damn close to one of those fences, both before and after the changes that resulted from the Bodine crash...actually, no, it isn't; it's quite a bit reinforced, with some chain-link heavily interwoven with very heavy steel cable both horizontally and vertically.

This is, quite literally, the first incident of its kind in the modern era (which included the whole goddamn engine and tires flying into the crowds) I've seen in NASCAR--it's more common in IRL; in NASCAR, it's usually parts of the bodywork that end up in the crowd in the event the car ends up in the chain fence, not major parts like the tires and engine and such.

(This is also literally maybe only the second or third wreck I've seen in NASCAR total that was so bad that it damaged the fence; both of the other times were in the pre-modern era, one involving Bobby Allison's crash that pretty much ended his career back in the 90s (and which left him with a TBI and which was a major factor in establishing restrictor plate racing) and the other involving Geoff Bodine in a truck race at Daytona (which also ended his career, did result in injuries to the crowd as the truck exploded against the catch fencing, and which resulted in some major reinforcements and retrofitting at NASCAR tracks).  Then again, unfortunately, the track record of safety advances tends to be F1 then IRL then NASCAR being one of the last motorsports associations to adopt them...usually after a death.)
2013-02-23 07:41:21 PM
2 votes:

funktilious_j: WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

it's not exactly a regular chain link fence

may as well have been an invisible fence for dogs, as well as it worked.

Eh, probably prevented a few inbred pregnancies.


Did you watch the same video I did? For as wimpy as that fence looks: it kept an entire car (most of it) from being launched into the stands. That invisible fence, while obviously not solid enough to keep everything out, did an amazing job and saved several people from being crushed into 2 millimeters of buzzard bait.

And unless your mother was in the front row, I doubt any inbreeding was averted.
2013-02-23 06:42:57 PM
2 votes:
If I ever watch NASCAR, which is almost never, I do so for the wrecks. If idiot drivers want to call themselves athletes and try to kill each other, that is their choice. However, when they go out and harm fans that is another story. I am sure it was 100% unintentional, but I have a gut feeling NASCAR officials recognize the allure of fiery crashes and try to capitalize on it.
2013-02-23 06:33:14 PM
2 votes:

killershark: I was at the '05 US Grand Prix in Indy when only six cars started because of safety concerns. Politics aside, F1 drivers once again proved that day what pulling together can do to help the safety of the sport. When are NASCAR drivers going to step up to secure their safety and the safety of the fans? Daytona is a big race but since 2000 at that track, you've had a major star die, the track get ripped to shreads, and a huge jet fuel explosion that miraculously didn't kill anyone. And now this. The drivers need to stand together as one and finally say enough is enough.


Because the owners will just put the guys from the BGN series in the cars and run 'em. Happened the last time drivers walked out because of safety concerns, and it would happen again.

Sponsors, you know.

Hell, loss of sponsor money and contracts would keep drivers from sitting out a race.
2013-02-23 06:15:27 PM
2 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Holy crap.. You could not be more wrong.


You're drinking WAYYY too much NASCAR kooliad.  NASCAR is not only terrible at R&D spending for safety, they're typically the last of the major racing series to adopt recognized, new safety features.

HANS wasn't invented by NASCAR.  It was invented by private engineers working with road racing.  NASCAR were the VERY LAST major racing series to mandate it, it took Dale Earnhart's death to do that.

The SAFER barrier wasn't invented by NASCAR.  It was invented by a university with impetus and funding from Indycar.  NASCAR claims it as their own, in reality, they had almost nothing to do with its development.

As for safety within their cars. NASCAR vehicles could be so much safer were they permitted to use carbon fiber crash structures, they're not.

Fencing?  It's been known for decades that the fencing at oval tracks was inadequate at keeping engines and transmissions from shooting through.  Much lighter Indycar transmissions have shot through nearly identical fencing on at least two occasions and I think there was a third.

That's the point.  NASCAR knew these fences were inadequate but haven't invested in the R&D to fix the problem.  A lot of the reason is probably that there is no self evident fix.  They can't make the fencing much thicker without blocking the view from the stands.  It's even possible that there isn't a suitable fix.

The point it, we don't know if there's a solution to the fencing problem because NASCAR isn't spending the R&D to find out.  When it comes to safety, the NASCAR organization are cheap bastards that leech off the rest of racing.
2013-02-23 06:09:31 PM
2 votes:

rhiannon: FirstNationalBastard: rhiannon: FirstNationalBastard: These aren't real races.Daytona and Talladega should either be cut down bankingwise or bulldozed and replaced by two short tracks.

Stop watching.

I don't watch.Haven't since the bullshiat ending to the 2010 season. But NASCAR is the same old corrupt, slow to react organization they've always been, so the arguments from 1987 still hold up today.

You watched the NCTS Daytona race on Friday.


Yes, I was awake, off from work, bored, and saw a FARK thread.

And it was a boring race punctuated by three large accidents. That's what plate racing is... long stretches of bredom followed by massive accidents where someone winds up hurt or dead.

It's not real racing, and if the tracks can't be made to work without plates, bulldoze 'em and build a North Wilkesboro clone.
2013-02-23 06:06:29 PM
2 votes:
Fan video is near the bottom of this page. Try deleting this one, NASCAR.
2013-02-23 06:04:12 PM
2 votes:

ClavellBCMI: Someone might just have to make sure they *don't* include "NASCAR" or "Daytona 500" or "Daytona" when posting that video


COPD 300 /NASCAR Wreck is what you need to not use.

You also would have to change the video length at this point, as that checksum is under the gun.

-twitter is exploding with people biatching about coverup.. and I bet this was an automated takedown. People going nuts over nothing.
2013-02-23 06:02:29 PM
2 votes:

banshee612: Here's a video of the crash from the grandstands and the aftermath. The film was taken right next to where the tire landed.

http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW65Tyji_s&feature=youtu.be


NASCAR PR is on it!

Question:  So if the guy caused the crash on purpose, and people end up getting killed, think you can bring criminal charges for manslaughter?

Seriously, it's been wink wink, nudge nudge knowledge that these guys see taking each other out of a race with a crash as fair game, especially when they're feuding with the other team.  When you're going 200+ mph, and you have fans 100's of feet away, that's pretty irresponsible.

NASCAR will be in it for a huge civil suit, that's a given.  But honestly, I don't see why the guy who caused the crash can't be held criminally responsible for deaths. 
(He won;t be, there too much money in the sport, and that's how the world works)
2013-02-23 05:59:09 PM
2 votes:
NASCAR is blocking fan video of the aftermath in the stands on "copyright grounds"

https://twitter.com/bobbychuck/status/305447419930370050
2013-02-23 05:49:40 PM
2 votes:
Really? You don't get why your pock mocking NASCAR fans by implying that they would be cheering at people getting injured would be offensive?

And no, you really don't expect this at all. I've been watching races, live and n TV, for 2 decades now. I don't even need to move to my toes to count the number of times I've seen accidents ilke this, where the spectators get involved. It's horrific. Driver injuries, even deaths, you learn to expect. But they are taking the risks, and getting the rewards. The spectators don't expect this, no more than that little girl at a hockey game expected to die, no more than a person at a baseball game expects major reconstructive surgery after a bat goes into the stands.

This.
2013-02-23 05:44:33 PM
2 votes:
In case anyone's interested, they're saying 15 injuries, and one person going into surgery for head trauma.
2013-02-23 05:44:03 PM
2 votes:

BronyMedic: especially when it comes to an event which everyone watches NASCAR hoping to see.


You dont speak for me... or other fans. Stop being an asshole. you are better than this.
2013-02-23 05:40:55 PM
2 votes:

BronyMedic: Well, it's nice to know that apparently other people are allowed to make fun of NASCAR other than myself, especially when it comes to an event which everyone watches NASCAR hoping to see.

It's sad this happened, but do people really expect different when it involves just ONE inadvertent right turn to send car parts flying at 200 mph?


Really?  You don't get why your pock mocking NASCAR fans by implying that they would be cheering at people getting injured would be offensive?

And no, you really don't expect this at all.  I've been watching races, live and n TV, for 2 decades now.  I don't even need to move to my toes to count the number of times I've seen accidents ilke this, where the spectators get involved.  It's horrific.  Driver injuries, even deaths, you learn to expect.  But they are taking the risks, and getting the rewards.  The spectators don't expect this, no more than that little girl at a hockey game expected to die, no more than a person at a baseball game expects major reconstructive surgery after a bat goes into the stands.
2013-02-23 05:40:30 PM
2 votes:

Ima4nic8or: It must be a tough balancing act for Nascar. On the one hand you want to minimize the risk of anyone getting hurt. On the other hand you want fans to be able to get close to the action.


Most who follow motorsports have known for years that these fences were inadequate at high velocities.  NASCAR has never tried to truly address the problem.  Hell, these fences are inadequate for much lighter Indycars.

Most think the fence problem has never been truly addressed because there is no self evident solution.  NASCAR would have to test and design and test and design their own solution, at great expense.  NASCAR isn't much for spending their own money on safety R&D.  Most of NASCAR's much triumphed safety systems were designed by others.  The SAFER barrier was designed university researchers at the impetus of Indycar, not NASCAR.  HANS was designed by independent engineers connected to road racing, not NASCAR.

NASCAR does a lot of talking about safety, but leaves the heavy lifting of R&D spending to others.

It's about time NASCAR's insurers dropped them or skyrocketed their rates.  Money is the only thing that will wake up the NASCAR head office.
2013-02-23 05:31:20 PM
2 votes:

HempHead: Shadow Blasko: GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

Its a bit more than a chain link fence..

Looks like a chain link fence. Acts like a chain link fence. Must be a duck.


It must be a tough balancing act for Nascar.  On the one hand you want to minimize the risk of anyone getting hurt.  On the other hand you want fans to be able to get close to the action.  That is what they are paying for after all.  Despite all the hand wringing that will occur this is an extremely rare event.  Its sort of like if you are driving down the freeway and a scrap piece of metal falls off the back of a truck in front of you, piercing your window and potentially your head.  Do you go out and wail that windows are not designed properly since they dont stop flying metal rods? No, you recognize that not all risk can be eliminated without unacceptable tradeoffs. I see this one the same way. It is very unfortunate but also exceedingly rare and providing absolute certainty that it wouldnt happen again ( by putting in something like a 3ft thick steel wall you cant see through) just is not worth the tradeoff since that sort of event is unlikely to occur again.
2013-02-23 05:28:34 PM
2 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Cars have hit that fence scraped along it for 50 yards and it has held. It has held as car parts the size of a dinner table fly into it. It has held as cars have rolled up into it.


And much lighter Indycar transmission have shot through nearly identical fencing at both Indy and Texas (IIRC).

These fence systems do have large cables behind them, supporting the posts. The actual fencing itself isn't much more than backyard fencing.

This was just a matter of time, it was bound to happen.  NASCAR has long needed to install better protection systems for the fans.  What system?  Who can say, they'll need to design and test.  It will be expensive.
2013-02-23 05:23:07 PM
2 votes:

WeenerGord: Shadow Blasko: Actually.. that is how plate racing works. He blocked, shiat happened. they already talked to him, he made no excuses about it.

Bump draft racing works like that. Understand before you get pissy


Yeah! So what if people die! Right?

/ after a few hours of nothing but watching freaking cars go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round  prolly praying for death to put them out of the misery of that boredom, anyway


And... screw the haters... I'm going back to the actual thread
2013-02-23 05:20:35 PM
2 votes:
Is this the thread where people that have never watched a race in their lives come to comment on the cause of the wreck?
2013-02-23 05:20:29 PM
2 votes:
If only each of those spectators had a firearm.....................
2013-02-23 05:18:59 PM
2 votes:

JonBuck: Popcorn Johnny: JonBuck: The idiot driving the white car behind the leader looks like the cause of this crash.

The dude leading the race caused it. He admitted in a post-race interview that he was trying to block.

Alright. Still, I can't believe those cars were so close together even before the crash.


Have you never watched NASCAR racing at Daytona? It's 200MPH of bumper to bumper racing...
2013-02-23 05:15:32 PM
2 votes:
Press conference coming up, CNN will be covering. Also might be shown here. Link
2013-02-23 05:12:50 PM
2 votes:
If half your car crosses the finish line in the form of debris, what's the ruling?
2013-02-23 05:11:35 PM
2 votes:
Marty Smith @MartySmithESPN

I was just told by police if I didn't leave the grandstand area I'd be thrown in jail.
2013-02-23 05:11:17 PM
2 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: Way to avoid film of people hurt because it would be devastating to your wallet.


That's an idiotic comment. Perhaps the film crew has the slightest modicum of respect for people who are actively receiving medical attention?
2013-02-23 05:03:04 PM
2 votes:
There's a longer video up now in the link.  They were trying to cause that crash for two laps.  Nascar is a farked up sport.  Players don't try to kill each other in normal sports.
2013-02-23 04:47:08 PM
2 votes:
Tire in stands

pbs.twimg.com
2013-02-23 04:44:47 PM
2 votes:
Moment of impact.

pbs.twimg.com
2013-02-23 04:37:09 PM
2 votes:
A tire rocketed through the fence and into the stands, not good at all.
2013-02-24 02:34:54 PM
1 votes:

rurdy: he frontstretch fence at Talladega will be raised before the Nov. 1 race, and the backstretch will be completed during the offseason.

Daytona will have its fences raised before its first big event in January.


That's not a engineering derived solution.  That's a potential solution that anyone with a 70 IQ could come up with.

Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.  We don't know, and neither does NASCAR because NASCAR doesn't do safety testing.  They let others do that.  When NASCAR has a homegrown problem, like this, they use duct tape engineering with no testing.  Just make it thicker, just make it bigger, just make it taller.

Yeah, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it can even have unforeseen negative consequences.  They need to get engineers on this, then they need to test, in full scale. NASCAR is too cheap to do that.
2013-02-24 01:49:28 AM
1 votes:
The fear of Talladega safety @ it's inaugural race led to the 1st driver's strike...& subsequent on-the-spot France scabs

Slaves2Darkness Meh, if a NASCAR fan dies because of this, well lets face it, nothing important will have been lost.

You's trollin'...but if any of these go to trial all they'll need will be 11 more like you, or 5 if they just wanna hang it
2013-02-24 01:34:13 AM
1 votes:

oldsylr: I understand that many people look at race fans as ignorant rednecks, but some of us are college educated with many years of mechanical experience.


Great post and while I don't think you were talking about me maybe you should calm down some. It's not worth it really. Besides, it's FARK so I expect some people to be ignorant but the rest of us/them aren't like that. We know it takes years to get to where those NASCAR guys are at. Or at least I do since I once thought about that profession years ago. Plus, I think the chance to be ignorant is what brings most people to FARK.

CSB/ I've actually had 2 cars that I've worked with race in the 24Hrs of Daytona, the 12Hrs of Sebring, a Miami race, a New Orleans race and I had the chance to work in the 24 HoD pits for a GT Porsche team about 5 years ago. It's not much but it's something I'm proud of. Most of my work has been on the local short tracks in the N Florida area. Dirt and Asphalt. With that said even I know people on here are just being Farkers because it's what Farkers do. I wouldn't want it any other way because that's what makes FARK fun.

/not college educated as my spelling proves
//but I am a damn good alignment/suspension tech with over 30 years of experience who knows my profession very well
2013-02-24 01:09:05 AM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: mjones73: I swear I typed that right twice now and it's changing when I hit Add Comment...

It's filtering the word sh*t.


My personal favorite WTF Fark Filter moment was when someone's post about cracking an egg, only to discover a second egg within the first, showed up as "an egg with anothenaibunside of it."

"Naibun" being "nubian" backwards, and "nubian" being the filter's replacement for the N-word, and since the filter reads backwards and ignores spaces, you cannot place the word "another" and the word "egg" and the word "inside" sequentially.

Anyway, welcome to Fark, my attractive and successful African-American.
2013-02-24 12:55:44 AM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Streaming a movie and posting it online is a hell of a lot different than a brief clip of a sporting event. There are countless clips from baseball, football, hockey and other sports on Youtube and I've never seen anybody biatch. NASCAR was in panic mode and foolishly trying to wipe out all video of the accident as if they actually could.


Yuuuup.
2013-02-24 12:48:19 AM
1 votes:

Glendale: mikaloyd: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x546]

Huh, there's an access gate there, where the wire ropes aren't continuous through that area. Weak point?


The pole being sheared off just then seems weak too
2013-02-24 12:40:09 AM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x546]


Huh, there's an access gate there, where the wire ropes aren't continuous through that area. Weak point?
2013-02-24 12:35:41 AM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: mikaloyd: You sound very concerned

NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

NASCAR only reacts to blood.  Maybe this drew enough blood for them to finally spend some damn money testing and developing fencing that can actually stop their cars.


very VERY concerned
2013-02-24 12:31:36 AM
1 votes:
They used clear because the Plexiglass is lighter than aluminum, was easier to get in large sections at the time, and made for a better visual in the movie.

Also, they had no currency, so they used the only thing they could which was the transparent aluminum formula.

Sure they had other options but given the constraints they did what they had to.
2013-02-24 12:24:07 AM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: draa: The first thing I would suggest is moving seating back some. Up close and personal is fine until there's a bad accident like today. They could also think about double fencing and plexiglass partions in front of the grandstands at some of the higher speed tracks. I would also suggest extending the top fencing further into the track(to about half track anyway) to stop things like that wheel assembly from going over. Of course it could have just went through the fencing they had in place so I don't know there. These are things that raceways could do but they're gonna' be expensive for sure. maybe it's cheaper to pay the lawsuits that will soon follow instead of correcting these issues.

Yes, all that and more needs to be tested.  First in simulations, then in full scale.   As Anderson's wrote, they could sell DVD's of the full scale tests, maybe even sell tickets.

NASCAR's owners own the two tracks where this problem is mostly likely to kill bunches of people, Daytona and Talladega.  In fact, they own a majority of the tracks at which NASCAR races run.  That's probably a big reason holding any improvement back.

Not only would NASCAR's owners (the France family) have to pay for the fencing R&D, they'd also have to foot most of the bills for actually implementing the engineering recommendations.

You're right that they might prefer to pay the lawsuits, hopefully their insurers won't.  Were I in charge of insuring NASCAR, I'd tell them to get their shiat together or call Lloyds of London, see what kind of rates the high-risk market is wiling to give them.  As things stand now, NASCAR truly ought to be paying insanely ridiculous insurance rates.


To be honest I worry about the same thing happening in Gainsville at the GatorNationals. We always sit near the end of the 1000ft and sometimes when my kids are there I have nightmares about what might happen. There's only a 3 1/2 foot track wall and a 4 1/2 foot chainlink fence seperating the cars from the people. Anton Brown's accident last week in Pomona brought those thoughts back to my mind since I'm heading to Gainsville next month. With the speeds cars are running now-a-days some of the old tracks and their seating arrangments need to be reworked for sure. In both series I think.
2013-02-24 12:13:03 AM
1 votes:

draa: The first thing I would suggest is moving seating back some. Up close and personal is fine until there's a bad accident like today. They could also think about double fencing and plexiglass partions in front of the grandstands at some of the higher speed tracks. I would also suggest extending the top fencing further into the track(to about half track anyway) to stop things like that wheel assembly from going over. Of course it could have just went through the fencing they had in place so I don't know there. These are things that raceways could do but they're gonna' be expensive for sure. maybe it's cheaper to pay the lawsuits that will soon follow instead of correcting these issues.


Yes, all that and more needs to be tested.  First in simulations, then in full scale.   As Anderson's wrote, they could sell DVD's of the full scale tests, maybe even sell tickets.

NASCAR's owners own the two tracks where this problem is mostly likely to kill bunches of people, Daytona and Talladega.  In fact, they own a majority of the tracks at which NASCAR races run.  That's probably a big reason holding any improvement back.

Not only would NASCAR's owners (the France family) have to pay for the fencing R&D, they'd also have to foot most of the bills for actually implementing the engineering recommendations.

You're right that they might prefer to pay the lawsuits, hopefully their insurers won't.  Were I in charge of insuring NASCAR, I'd tell them to get their shiat together or call Lloyds of London, see what kind of rates the high-risk market is wiling to give them.  As things stand now, NASCAR truly ought to be paying insanely ridiculous insurance rates.
2013-02-24 12:02:40 AM
1 votes:

What_Would_Jimi_Do: the tire with the wheel assembly can be seen in cornfed's pic it didn't make it into the grand stands.


Uh, the one that went over still had both control arms, spindle/hub, brake rotor, and the caliper attached. Kyle Petty was giving the live interveiw on Speed as they hauled it out of row 8-9. He said it weighed about 140lbs with everything attached and it took multiple people to tote it off. The one laying inside of the wall went through the fencing and I didn't see what was still attached to it so I'm not sure what was on it. The one in the stands though was the full assembly plus control arms.
2013-02-23 11:55:12 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: What_Would_Jimi_Do: the fencing did its job. the tire went over the fencing.

It sure looked like it went through it when I rewound and watched it on my DVR a few times. The fences are curved towards the track, it couldn't climb the fence and go over it.



Maybe, but from the Speed Channel videos and from what Kyle Petty was saying afterwards I thought over. And there's nothing but cables up that high so you are probably correct.
2013-02-23 11:52:25 PM
1 votes:

draa: mjones73: The tire went through the hole in the fence, not over it.

One tire went through. The second tire went over. With the wheel assembly still attached. There's a pic of it above in this thread and it can clearly be seen in the videos of the wreck.


I should have said that it's possible that the assembly I was talking about did go through the top fencing but I think it cleared it completely.
2013-02-23 11:43:09 PM
1 votes:
the fencing did its job. the tire went over the fencing. the thing will be making the fence higher and stronger.

i can remember the 1984 world 600 and standing within inches of the fence at charlotte, among other races standing at the fence. i am sure the fencing is much better in 2013 than it was in 1984.


no wrecks ever came through the fence at any races i ever went to.

/if the fence had been armed this wouldn't have happened
//amirite
2013-02-23 11:39:07 PM
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: RandomRandom: mikaloyd: You sound very concerned

NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades. Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

NASCAR only reacts to blood. Maybe this drew enough blood for them to finally spend some damn money testing and developing fencing that can actually stop their cars.

Considering how they're responding to this, I'm not holding my breath.


The DVD sales of the new fence crash testing would more than pay for the cost of the testing and the installation of whatever new fence comes out of it.
2013-02-23 11:38:35 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: I'm not aware of NASCAR ever spending any real money to engineer, then test better fencing configurations.


You're right. Other than the cursory improvements we've seen since the Bodine crash there hasn't been much done in that department. A lot of work done of driver saftey though but not much for the fans. Hell, the Carl Edwards wreck a year or two ago should have woke them up but I guess they looked at it and said "see, the fence worked fine." Only barely though imo.

The first thing I would suggest is moving seating back some. Up close and personal is fine until there's a bad accident like today. They could also think about double fencing and plexiglass partions in front of the grandstands at some of the higher speed tracks. I would also suggest extending the top fencing further into the track(to about half track anyway) to stop things like that wheel assembly from going over. Of course it could have just went through the fencing they had in place so I don't know there. These are things that raceways could do but they're gonna' be expensive for sure. maybe it's cheaper to pay the lawsuits that will soon follow instead of correcting these issues.
2013-02-23 11:32:02 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: mikaloyd: You sound very concerned

NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

NASCAR only reacts to blood.  Maybe this drew enough blood for them to finally spend some damn money testing and developing fencing that can actually stop their cars.


Considering how they're responding to this, I'm not holding my breath.
2013-02-23 11:26:12 PM
1 votes:
Two people are still in critical condition, one of them a kid.
2013-02-23 11:25:42 PM
1 votes:

mjones73: I expect them to do something, there's only so much you can do with fencing and still have the crowd be able to see through it though..


Actually, we don't know that.

I've been following racing for decades.  I'm not aware of NASCAR ever spending any real money to engineer, then test better fencing configurations.  They do obvious things, like use thicker metal, but actually giving the problem to engineers?  Actually throwing cars into test fences to see how they hold up?  No, NASCAR has never done that, and they've needed to do that for a long time.

Not saying it will be cheap, but there could certainly be a workable solution which would reduce the potential of big chunks of metal in the grandstand while still allowing the fans to see the race.  It will probably take a multi-tiered approach.  Maybe clear out the first 10 to 15 seats closest to the track, raise fence height, raise the concrete before the fences, improve the fences, change the fence material, improve wheel tethers.

It won't be cheap, which is why it may take a full car going into the grandstands and a dozen dead fans before NASCAR spends the money.
2013-02-23 11:23:30 PM
1 votes:

draa: mjones73: From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.

In the case of the wheel assembly that went into the stands it still had the upper and lower control arms as well as the spindle and hub, brake rotor, and the caliper attached. Probably about 140-150 lbs total weight. It looks as if it broke two upper control arm mounting bolts and the single lower one which is about the only thing holding that grouping in place.

/suspension mechanic


My bad, looking at what they use in the Nationwide Series it seem that there are two lower control arm bolts instead of one and the radius arm setup I was thinking about. So either a.) the lower control arm ripped apart at the lower ball joint and brace or b.) the video I was seeing didn't show but one mounting point still on the assembly in the stands due to the angle it was being shot. But I certainly remember seeing only one mounting point in the vid and thinking Wow so I'm going with (a). Either way, the entire assembly coming off intact it's something I've only seen a couple of times in 30 years of doing suspension work. And that includes work on a GT car that that I did years ago. The worst feeling in the world is watching a car you worked on on Wednesday sitting in a heap on the track Saturday night and wondering if it was your fault(it wasn't).
2013-02-23 11:08:56 PM
1 votes:

mjones73: The car itself didn't make it into the stands...


That's true.

Which might be the rationale NASCAR points to when they do... nothing.
2013-02-23 11:07:54 PM
1 votes:
RandomRandom NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

The restrictor plates were meant to prevent that-yet now everybody gets caught in a giant pack or 'lovebugs' which only GUARANTEES something bad will happen...
2013-02-23 10:51:56 PM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: You sound very concerned


NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

NASCAR only reacts to blood.  Maybe this drew enough blood for them to finally spend some damn money testing and developing fencing that can actually stop their cars.
2013-02-23 10:41:44 PM
1 votes:

mjones73: From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.


In the case of the wheel assembly that went into the stands it still had the upper and lower control arms as well as the spindle and hub, brake rotor, and the caliper attached. Probably about 140-150 lbs total weight. It looks as if it broke two upper control arm mounting bolts and the single lower one which is about the only thing holding that grouping in place.

/suspension mechanic
2013-02-23 10:23:35 PM
1 votes:

wxboy: FlyingJ: mikaloydThe Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want
The cuts on the guy's back are interesting-was he thrown back into his seat by the impact?


Since they're on the back of his left shoulder, I'd guess he turned away from the oncoming shrapnel while seated.


I think that's the guy that took the hit from the tire, shirtless dude is the one you could see pulling off his shirt in the video that's now been taken down...
2013-02-23 10:03:00 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny:


How did he take that picture with no hands? Google Glass? Was he really wearing a handsfree camera the whole time as a headband?
2013-02-23 09:56:41 PM
1 votes:

ontariolightning: SurelyShirley: ontariolightning: Meh. It's nothing like those eastern european air show crashes where peoples guts are all over the ground .. and oh look a severed head!

Got a link?

you were warned. That is the google search. Its the first link.

http://www.google.ca/#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&q=ukranianair+show+cr as h+video&oq=ukranianair+show+crash+video&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..0i13i30.141 46.16867.1.17435.8.8.0.0.0.1.294.1510.0j5j3.8.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.1.4. tablet-gws.vbJfgna_uhI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42768644,d. aWc&fp=d5f755bef315c11b&biw=768&bih=928


I was working Flutag in '88 at Ramstein when the Italians mucked up their routine. I've pretty much forgotten all the morbid sights, smells, and sounds.. but I know some gruesome shiat happened that day.
2013-02-23 09:52:15 PM
1 votes:

Mister Peejay: akula: mjones73: How the hell would you put a cable on a tire?

It's not connected to the tire itself, but to the steering knuckle or hub. When a wheel is ripped loose like that it isn't the lug nuts that give- it's the attachment of the suspension components that breaks. With a strap or cable to the frame of the vehicle it increases the chance that the wheel won't go flying.

F1 has used them for several years.

F1 uses center-lug wheels and almost-strong-enough suspension arms that will collapse if the cars hit a bump.  Uprights breaking free is fairly common.

Circle track cars use steel control arms and IIRC they still use steel wheels even at the top tier.  The failure mode is the wheel pulling over the 1" hex lug nuts and/or ripping the center out of the wheel.


From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.
2013-02-23 09:43:18 PM
1 votes:
The fan video tells the real story.  This event happened damn quickly.  No time to react.  Cars going by, some smoke, less smoke, twisted fence, people freaking.  Look...a tire.  All in, like, 250 mS.

Damn.  I really need to go see a Daytona race.
2013-02-23 09:37:19 PM
1 votes:
 mikaloydThe Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want
The cuts on the guy's back are interesting-was he thrown back into his seat by the impact?

These guys in the flagstand are having a total underoo changer;  https://twitter.com/van_overklift/status/305502577242550273/photo/1
2013-02-23 09:30:57 PM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: The Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283518/Massive-fiery-car-wr ec k-NASCAR-race-Daytona-Speedway-sends-engine-stands.html


Again not make lite, but there's a guy there who appears to have spilled his beer.
2013-02-23 09:27:32 PM
1 votes:

the ha ha guy: RealAmericanHero: the ha ha guy: Yes, how dare someone assume that stuff from the first few hours of driver's ed would be common knowledge. I bet those people think we know how to operate gas pumps and parking brakes too.

Right, and knowing how your computer's file system works and why you get page faults is on par with knowing how to move your mouse. And I guess my driver's ed teachers were negligent for not explaining the specifics of the steam that appears when driving a car 200 MPH. Oh well, I managed to get by without knowing that extremely crucial and not at all trivial bit of information.


So 200MPH steam is magically different than 50MPH steam or steam while parked? These aren't run by magic pixie dust, these are normal cars, and abide by the same basic laws of physics as every single other car in existence.

And if your driver's ed course didn't tell you the absolute basics like "if your car starts steaming, it's probably overheating and you should pull over", you need to get a refund, and possibly re-take the class.


Can't speak for anyone else, but my HS driver's ed, back in the 70's, taught us nothing of the sort.
Would've been nice if they had, but it definitely wasn't part of the curriculum.
2013-02-23 09:26:47 PM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: i.dailymail.co.uk


Car is sponsored by Clorox and Cottonelle? Given the odds he loaded his suit, convenient sponsors to have.
2013-02-23 09:26:27 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: Bit'O'Gristle: Way to avoid film of people hurt because it would be devastating to your wallet.

That's an idiotic comment. Perhaps the film crew has the slightest modicum of respect for people who are actively receiving medical attention?


The first rule of holding a camera... never stop filming.
2013-02-23 09:25:08 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 09:23:56 PM
1 votes:
i.dailymail.co.uk
2013-02-23 09:21:57 PM
1 votes:

FlyingJ: You Farkers are so cynical, NASCAR announced they merely blocked the fan video of the NNS Drive 4 COPD300 crash out of respect for the INJURED FANS.  Whew! Glad that's settled;  https://twitter.com/ESPNMcGee/status/305481419734528000/photo/1


I've got this bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in...
2013-02-23 09:12:00 PM
1 votes:

FlyingJ: mikaloyd They are removing it for tomorrows race.

i thought that same part was @ fault in Mikey Waltrip's near-fatal in Bristol?-sorta off-topic, it's too bad Kenny Irwin's folks sold the Children's Camp they started in his memory & all the furnishings at auction?
http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=64924


whole different thing. Waltrips was an open gate in the wall. This is a reinfrced gate on the catchfence. But they dont have the parts to put in a new gate so they are putting in gateless catchfence
2013-02-23 09:11:00 PM
1 votes:
Quick, before NASCAR lawyers play Whack-A-Mole(Digger?) with it Wow! the guy running the video was 3 SEATS AWAY from the tire-these fans never even knew it landed!-how fast could that thing have been traveling?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXqi0AyEfOA
2013-02-23 09:04:07 PM
1 votes:

Mock26: Popcorn Johnny: Fan video is near the bottom of this page. Try deleting this one, NASCAR.

Anyone who goes to a race and then cheers when there is a crash deserves to be set on fire.


Exactly.  They think it's all fun since the driver often walk away with minimal to no problems.  Those people don't take into consideration the potential for every wreck - that someone may not walk away.  Unfortunately, this shows that, even with some precautions, things can go bad fast.

Doubt the witnesses to that crash will ever cheer a wreck from now on.
2013-02-23 09:02:00 PM
1 votes:
mikaloyd They are removing it for tomorrows race.

i thought that same part was @ fault in Mikey Waltrip's near-fatal in Bristol?-sorta off-topic, it's too bad Kenny Irwin's folks sold the Children's Camp they started in his memory & all the furnishings at auction?
http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=64924
2013-02-23 08:59:00 PM
1 votes:
You do realize that NASCAR uses tons of tethers right?

They're built out of vectran


RandomRandom: Mister Peejay: The point I was trying to make is that F1 does not tether the wheel, it tethers the UPRIGHT to the car, since what breaks are the carpet fiber suspension links. Circle track cars have much more robust suspension design because the cars are heavier, run on banking, introduce suspension loads differently to begin with (coils and shocks directly on the lower arms instead of tension rods going straight from the uprights to inboard shocks), and have to deal with "contact" on an extremely regular basis. When a wheel comes off of a circle track car, it's generally only that, not the entire corner of the suspension.

None of that is really relevant, since the car so thoroughly disassembled itself.

Yes, I realized the differences you were addressing.

My point was that even if an F1 style wheel tether could somehow have been attached to just the wheels of that NASCAR vehicle, it would have been very unlikely to have kept those wheels out of the grandstand.

2013-02-23 08:52:17 PM
1 votes:

LessO2: MFAWG: ontariolightning: Owen hart dies but lets continue the show!
Car crashes into crowd.. Hurry up and repair track for tomorrow

In all honesty, this is a thing that has happened at motorsports events every now and again for over a century, and often far, far worse than this one was.

Everyone understands that.

Tell that to the folks in the hospital.


they're in the hospital, not the morgue, and that's what matters tonight.
2013-02-23 08:46:52 PM
1 votes:

Captain Steroid: Why is it, whenever the Baltimore Ravens win the Super Bowl, someone DIES at Daytona?

I don't like this tradition! :-(


I haven't seen a death reported and pray we won't.
2013-02-23 08:42:43 PM
1 votes:
Still safer than watching and airshow. That said, probably raise the retaining wall by a few feet to help contain flying cars. Also, severely punish whoever caused the wreck, like ban them for the season.
2013-02-23 08:39:57 PM
1 votes:

kriegfusion: What do those buttons do anyways? Ive looked in the FAQ and even googled it. As far as I know, they are vestigial and used at the end of the year by Drew and the staff for laughs of who clicks them lol.


/clicks "funny"
2013-02-23 08:31:51 PM
1 votes:
i.imgur.com


Shrugs wryly.
2013-02-23 08:30:35 PM
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: Talking about Daytona, I for one am glad the greatest driver of all was not involved  in this fiasco at all..


You mean the one who shut her own car off and thought the engine was blown when it wasn't? Yeah,great driver.
2013-02-23 08:24:27 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Fan video is near the bottom of this page. Try deleting this one, NASCAR.


Anyone who goes to a race and then cheers when there is a crash deserves to be set on fire.
2013-02-23 08:24:16 PM
1 votes:

DerPups: Mister Peejay: It's a race series for cars that ostensibly cost less than $500 to acquire and prepare, not counting safety equipment and consumables like tires (but tires must be a minimum treadwear rating - no race tires).   I use the term "race" very loosely, since you have to have some sort of team theme and decorate your car and other non-car-guy BS.

i could have sworn that was ChumpCar...

google it... same basic concept


ChumpCar is for people who actually want to race, not play derp-de-doo parade charades.
2013-02-23 08:18:52 PM
1 votes:

MFAWG: ontariolightning: Owen hart dies but lets continue the show!
Car crashes into crowd.. Hurry up and repair track for tomorrow

In all honesty, this is a thing that has happened at motorsports events every now and again for over a century, and often far, far worse than this one was.

Everyone understands that.


Tell that to the folks in the hospital.

/sounds like you need some straight talk
2013-02-23 08:16:36 PM
1 votes:

Fiction Fan: [www.exoticcarresource.com image 850x637]
Stop whining, you bunch of pussies.


Sorry ... I could not hear you over the sound of Hamster screaming terror while laps in a trainer car.

rearwheelhorsepower.com
2013-02-23 08:13:59 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: rhiannon: FirstNationalBastard: rhiannon: FirstNationalBastard: These aren't real races.Daytona and Talladega should either be cut down bankingwise or bulldozed and replaced by two short tracks.

Stop watching.

I don't watch.Haven't since the bullshiat ending to the 2010 season. But NASCAR is the same old corrupt, slow to react organization they've always been, so the arguments from 1987 still hold up today.

You watched the NCTS Daytona race on Friday.

Yes, I was awake, off from work, bored, and saw a FARK thread.

And it was a boring race punctuated by three large accidents. That's what plate racing is... long stretches of bredom followed by massive accidents where someone winds up hurt or dead.

It's not real racing, and if the tracks can't be made to work without plates, bulldoze 'em and build a North Wilkesboro clone.


Doesn't appear you know very much about NASCAR racing at all. The Sprint Cup cars are the only ones that use restricter plates and they are to reduce horsepower. Nationwide cars and the truck series do not make nearly as much horsepower and therefore do not need plates!
bredom?
2013-02-23 08:12:04 PM
1 votes:

Some Bass Playing Guy: Sitting higher up in the stands reduces this risk even further.


That's what we always tried to do but as I said, you have to walk down the fence line to even go to the bathroom or concessions. Instead of moving the seating back some distance from the track they still have it pinned up against it. There's also cops and track staff that stand down their to keep people from standing there. I wouldn't be suprised if some of them were the ones injured today since they are directly in the line of fire in this type accident. Not to mention that most people start to leave before the race ends and there's always a crowd down ther along that fence at that time.
2013-02-23 08:04:39 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.


It's not a chain-link fence.
The fence probably would have held, but the car went through a gate in the fence.  It probably was the gate that failed.
2013-02-23 08:01:39 PM
1 votes:

mikemoto: Why does this concern you farkers? More than likely it was some Republicans that got hurt.


Just want to make sure the death toll is high enough
2013-02-23 08:00:53 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 08:00:50 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: Don't Troll Me Bro!: hink of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars. Hint: most of them started in racing.

True, many automotive safety systems were designed for racing.  Very few road car safety systems were invented by or for NASCAR.

NASCAR doesn't spend their own money on safety R&D.  NASCAR waits for Indycar, road racing, or the FIA to develop a system, then, sometimes as much as a decade later, triumph's "their" new (decade old) safety system.

/NASCAR's insurers need to send them a wake-up call.  In the form of 10x rates.


You sound very concerned
2013-02-23 07:56:32 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: Don't Troll Me Bro!: hink of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars. Hint: most of them started in racing.

True, many automotive safety systems were designed for racing.  Very few road car safety systems were invented by or for NASCAR.

NASCAR doesn't spend their own money on safety R&D.  NASCAR waits for Indycar, road racing, or the FIA to develop a system, then, sometimes as much as a decade later, triumph's "their" new (decade old) safety system.

/NASCAR's insurers need to send them a wake-up call.  In the form of 10x rates.


Would you like to bet that NASCAR is "self insured" otherwise the premiums would be so high NASCAR would have gone broke in it's earliest years!
2013-02-23 07:54:11 PM
1 votes:

draa: Some Bass Playing Guy: From the pictures, it looks like Larson's car hit a spot in the fence where there was either a camera opening or where there's a fence door that gets opened for crew members, media and other people to cross the track after/before events.

It's a crossover gate. And it's in the worst place possible imo. It creates a weak sopt in the catch fencing and as bad luck would have it the car today hit that spot. It should be moved after this incident though but I doubt they'll change anything.


They are removing it for tomorrows race.
2013-02-23 07:52:16 PM
1 votes:
Man after reading some of these posts I now realize this country is full of pansies shiat happens all the time. Overall the racing industry is very safe but somtimes bad things happen.
2013-02-23 07:50:57 PM
1 votes:

Tellingthem: Kurohone: BronyMedic: Well, it's nice to know that apparently other people are allowed to make fun of NASCAR other than myself, especially when it comes to an event which everyone watches NASCAR hoping to see.

It's sad this happened, but do people really expect different when it involves just ONE inadvertent right turn to send car parts flying at 200 mph?

Really?  You don't get why your pock mocking NASCAR fans by implying that they would be cheering at people getting injured would be offensive?

And no, you really don't expect this at all.  I've been watching races, live and n TV, for 2 decades now.  I don't even need to move to my toes to count the number of times I've seen accidents ilke this, where the spectators get involved.  It's horrific.  Driver injuries, even deaths, you learn to expect.  But they are taking the risks, and getting the rewards.  The spectators don't expect this, no more than that little girl at a hockey game expected to die, no more than a person at a baseball game expects major reconstructive surgery after a bat goes into the stands.

Actually you should. I used to bring my baseball glove with me to catch pucks that flew into the crowd. Seen more than a few people get popped in the face by not paying attention. And yes when you go to baseball games you should watch out for bats and balls flying into the crowd as well. It's part of the sport. And unless you want to install fences around every single crowd those things will continue to happen. Same with racing. Even as a kid I knew that when going to an auto race parts flying into the crowd was a possibility.

Now they should always try to improve on safety at these events. And any negligence should be punished. but if you want to be 100% safe at any event stay home and watch it on tv.


Also there is a gate at the post the car hit first that was taken out, it is a pass thru so when events happen were NASCAR wants people in the stands to be able to get down from the stands to see, like the concert before the race!
2013-02-23 07:49:29 PM
1 votes:

Some Bass Playing Guy: From the pictures, it looks like Larson's car hit a spot in the fence where there was either a camera opening or where there's a fence door that gets opened for crew members, media and other people to cross the track after/before events.


It's a crossover gate. And it's in the worst place possible imo. It creates a weak sopt in the catch fencing and as bad luck would have it the car today hit that spot. It should be moved after this incident though but I doubt they'll change anything.
2013-02-23 07:49:01 PM
1 votes:

MFAWG: Great Porn Dragon: BunkyBrewman: Popcorn Johnny: A tire rocketed through the fence and into the stands, not good at all.

No kidding.  I was at the Flemington speedway (dirt track, been closed for awhile) when I was a kid and a tire came off one of the cars onto a ramp between the stands and killed a guy.  Poor guy never had a chance when something that big and heavy is coming that fast at you.

Unfortunately, agreed--and outside of dirt tracks and the like, the ONLY time I've heard of stuff like this happening in the modern era of racing is when some fans got killed at Michigan Speedway during the (CART) US 500 back in 1998 when a tire and debris went sailing into the stands.  (And yeah, that's pretty much exactly what's going through my mind...pretty much the US 500 tragedy, only with a rather more massive stock car. :P)

Happened at Charlotte too, years after F1 mandated tire tethers.

Not sure how well tethers would work on a full body car though?


From my understanding, per Matchett, they're not so much to prevent seperation, but to absorb energy if they do. For many situations, they do keep the wheel assembly attached, but if they don't they still remove a lot of energy from it
2013-02-23 07:46:42 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: In 1987, a fan at the Indy 500 was standing at the highest row of their high grandstands and was killed instantly by flying wheel.


Yep. It was Tony Bettenhausen's wheel. The lug bolt hit the wall in front of me in the short chute between 1 & 2. Wheel came of in #3.
2013-02-23 07:42:35 PM
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: BunkyBrewman: Popcorn Johnny: A tire rocketed through the fence and into the stands, not good at all.

No kidding.  I was at the Flemington speedway (dirt track, been closed for awhile) when I was a kid and a tire came off one of the cars onto a ramp between the stands and killed a guy.  Poor guy never had a chance when something that big and heavy is coming that fast at you.

Unfortunately, agreed--and outside of dirt tracks and the like, the ONLY time I've heard of stuff like this happening in the modern era of racing is when some fans got killed at Michigan Speedway during the (CART) US 500 back in 1998 when a tire and debris went sailing into the stands.  (And yeah, that's pretty much exactly what's going through my mind...pretty much the US 500 tragedy, only with a rather more massive stock car. :P)


Happened at Charlotte too, years after F1 mandated tire tethers.

Not sure how well tethers would work on a full body car though?
2013-02-23 07:40:17 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: So is this a bad time to ask for advice about my fantasy lineup?


Jeff Burton will win tomorrow
2013-02-23 07:37:16 PM
1 votes:

Ima4nic8or: Despite being quite well funded they do not have an unlimited amount of funds to address every potential risk.


I think what pisses me off so much is that they've spent millions since Earnhardt's death keeping their drivers safe and they've still got basically the same shiat in place to protect fans. It seems to me that until something like this happens NASCAR doesn't give a shiat about fan saftey.In fact, we routinely walked by that fence to get to concessions and the bathrooms. There needs to be more room between that fence and the people watching. Geoff Bodine's accident in Daytona 10 years ago should have made them aware of the dangers for fans, and yet, they've still got the same type of catch fence in place they had then and fans are just as close as ever. It's just taller and angles more inward than before but it's still dangerous as hell in these suiuations. I've always been worried about it while I was down there. As someone who's been to multiple races at that track, I don't believe I'll be going back until they change it. And I certainly won't be taking my family again until that happens.
2013-02-23 07:30:34 PM
1 votes:

Ed_Severson: Ima4nic8or: So where do you put your safety funds? Into improving spectator safety to address a single high profile incident that is probably never going to occur again? Or toward mitigating the mundane day-to-day risks that actually have a much higher occurrance rate?  It would depend on what has the highest combination of severity and occurrance.  I can only speculate but I doubt it is the high profile incidents like this that cause the most and/or worst injuries over the long haul.

NASCAR does not own and operate race tracks. People falling down the stairs or getting sunburned is not their problem.

They are a sanctioning body for a racing series, and as such, they have a responsibility to their participants to provide reasonable standards of safety. They practically never develop any safety device or procedure themselves; they merely wait for other sanctioning bodies to do all the work, then whenever NASCAR decides to adopt what has become common practice everywhere else in motorsports, they make sure they take credit for the idea at every opportunity.


You're an idiot. 

And while it is true NASCAR doesn't own any tracks, ISC does and members of the France family (who own NASCAR) are on the board of ISC. ISC owns at least 12 tracks were Sprint cup events are held, including Daytona. 

Go be stupid somewhere else.
2013-02-23 07:30:32 PM
1 votes:

Ed_Severson: NASCAR does not own and operate race tracks


Semantics.

The owners of Nascar own most of the company that owns most of the tracks on which NASCAR runs.

/Yes, they own the tracks.
2013-02-23 07:25:57 PM
1 votes:
Shakes fist at Montag19.
2013-02-23 07:25:47 PM
1 votes:

Cheese and Rice: NASCAR dudes, what's that white vapor looking stuff streaming off the cars?


steam. when they shut them down they release pressure on the cooling system
2013-02-23 07:25:01 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Kurohone: Looks to me like the 32 hit a pole at just the right angle and sheared it.

that's what happened, hit one of the poles and that sheared off the front end and in the process the engine got torn from the frame rails and got torn from the flywheel/chassis.


From the pictures, it looks like Larson's car hit a spot in the fence where there was either a camera opening or where there's a fence door that gets opened for crew members, media  and other people to cross the track after/before events.
2013-02-23 07:23:38 PM
1 votes:

menolikepoopybad: This is a late parrot: This press conference is a joke.

Well due to HIPAA there is not a lot they can say even if they wanted to.


I see your point and all, I was just a little underwhelmed considering the hype of the press conference itself.
2013-02-23 07:20:06 PM
1 votes:
I will be at the race tomorrow.  Maybe I should bring a helmet.
2013-02-23 07:13:08 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: Don't Troll Me Bro!: hink of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars. Hint: most of them started in racing.

True, many automotive safety systems were designed for racing.  Very few road car safety systems were invented by or for NASCAR.

NASCAR doesn't spend their own money on safety R&D.  NASCAR waits for Indycar, road racing, or the FIA to develop a system, then, sometimes as much as a decade later, triumph's "their" new (decade old) safety system.

/NASCAR's insurers need to send them a wake-up call.  In the form of 10x rates.


I am not convinced this is a case of NASCAR being cheap.  Like any large organization they no doubt have risk managment policies in place and decide where to spend on safety based on tools like FMEA.  Despite being quite well funded they do not have an unlimited amount of funds to address every potential risk.  So they probably invest money on safety improvements where they will do the most good.  Despite the crash being very high profile I would bet there are actually much more significant safety risks at the typical track.  In fact I would bet more fans probably got hurt through slips and falls, or fistfights, or alcohol overdoses on the same day the crash occured.  So where do you put your safety funds? Into improving spectator safety to address a single high profile incident that is probably never going to occur again? Or toward mitigating the mundane day-to-day risks that actually have a much higher occurrance rate?  It would depend on what has the highest combination of severity and occurrance.  I can only speculate but I doubt it is the high profile incidents like this that cause the most and/or worst injuries over the long haul.
2013-02-23 07:08:09 PM
1 votes:

puffy999: Dinodork: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

24 hours of some sort of citrus fiesta?


I think it's Portuguese for "24 Hours of The Mons".
2013-02-23 07:07:45 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: So, let's say they go back to actual stock cars, where the cars go 140 instead of 180. Does this crap happen as often?


They have those kind of races. It's called your local short track.
2013-02-23 07:07:41 PM
1 votes:
Nevermind the rampant carnage, engine smashing through a fence, and two dozen-plus injuries (14 treated at track, another dozen-plus taken to hospital), NASCAR SAYS THE TRACK WILL BE READY FOR TOMORROW!
2013-02-23 07:06:34 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Tire in stands

[pbs.twimg.com image 640x960]


I wonder who sold a tire a ticket to watch the race. Must be a father tire, watching his son tire go round and round. "Look, there goes my boy! They rotate so fast"  /sniffle, dabs eye with cloth

i129.photobucket.com
2013-02-23 06:55:55 PM
1 votes:

DerPups: Mister Peejay: Dinodork: *troll mode on*

This would never happen at a 24 Hours of LeMons race. Guess this proves $500 beaters with amateur drivers are intrinsically safer.

That's because if you show up with a mentality of "in it to win it" they will penalize you or not accept your entry.  LeMons is not racing, it's an art car parade.

it's spelled, "LeMans"


I'm not trying to be snarky, but it is indeed "LeMons"

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/
2013-02-23 06:52:15 PM
1 votes:
For those wanting gory pictures of the accident from the stands, this just in from the INS press service

fc01.deviantart.net
2013-02-23 06:51:43 PM
1 votes:
I hope everyone's okay.

Here's a similarly nuts crash from the NASCAR truck series a while back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmT3gQQdJm4&feature=player_embedded
2013-02-23 06:48:06 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: italie: Stands video pulled already. anyone manage to grab it?

Near the bottom of the page. Link


Just as the crash started "WHOOOO Here we go!"

That tune changed quick. Yikes.

Shame on Speed and NASCAR for most of the reporting being about the heroic efforts of the welders fixing the track for tomorrow and yanking any video.about it. Image and profits above all else. Fark NASCAR.
2013-02-23 06:47:37 PM
1 votes:

Donnchadha: parkerlewis: We stay out of your My Little Pony threads, how about showing the same respect?

This thread is now ponies?


This thread started off beneath ponies dignity levels. If a pony showed up now you know its a whorse.
2013-02-23 06:44:49 PM
1 votes:
There was a caution flag within the last 10-15 laps of the race to bring the racing field together before the last few laps?  That way the crowd could see the cars racing neck and neck at the end of the race? Color me SHOCKED.

% of NASCAR races with a yellow flag within the last 10-15 laps: ....[something ridiculously high]
2013-02-23 06:40:47 PM
1 votes:
7pm press conference according to Speed.
2013-02-23 06:39:54 PM
1 votes:

Radioactive Ass: GRCooper: Just watched the video from the stands again.

There was a cameraman right where the engine came through.  He wasn't there when the camera panned back.

Fark.

I noticed that too. If I had to guess I'd say that he's the one in surgery with the head trauma.


This suggests he's, relatively, okay
2013-02-23 06:38:33 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: killershark: I was at the '05 US Grand Prix in Indy when only six cars started because of safety concerns. Politics aside, F1 drivers once again proved that day what pulling together can do to help the safety of the sport. When are NASCAR drivers going to step up to secure their safety and the safety of the fans? Daytona is a big race but since 2000 at that track, you've had a major star die, the track get ripped to shreads, and a huge jet fuel explosion that miraculously didn't kill anyone. And now this. The drivers need to stand together as one and finally say enough is enough.

Because the owners will just put the guys from the BGN series in the cars and run 'em. Happened the last time drivers walked out because of safety concerns, and it would happen again.

Sponsors, you know.

Hell, loss of sponsor money and contracts would keep drivers from sitting out a race.


Agreed, and that's unfortunate when the sport puts money ahead of safety. But I just can't see someone like Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson taking a small hit to sit out a race without fans and the media taking notice. I think it could a PR nightmare for sponsors if they threaten to pull Dale Jr.'s contract if he sits out a race because he wants fans to be safe in the stands.
2013-02-23 06:36:55 PM
1 votes:

italie: Stands video pulled already. anyone manage to grab it?


Near the bottom of the page. Link
2013-02-23 06:34:03 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

it's not exactly a regular chain link fence



well good thing they had this special fence and all is well in the world.
2013-02-23 06:33:50 PM
1 votes:

Mister Peejay: F1 uses center-lug wheels and almost-strong-enough suspension arms that will collapse if the cars hit a bump. Uprights breaking free is fairly common.

Circle track cars use steel control arms and IIRC they still use steel wheels even at the top tier. The failure mode is the wheel pulling over the 1" hex lug nuts and/or ripping the center out of the wheel.


F1 wheels are held on by safety tethers made of one of the strongest substances known to man.  Yet F1 wheels still go flying in accidents similar to this one.  It's doubtful F1's tethers would have kept these wheels from flying into the grandstands.

Those fences are cheese graters, rub a wheel against them at 190mph + and the wheel is coming off.
2013-02-23 06:31:29 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: rhiannon: FirstNationalBastard: So, basically, I watch one race in two years, and that proves something?

Yes it proves that you were lying when you say you don't watch. But that doesn't really matter...

As someone who has followed NASCAR, most likely since before you were born, I am in complete agreement that the sport is a shell of what it used to be. I don't like what has happened either.
I'm just tired of reading your posts about it ad infinitum. You sound like a broken record.
Having said that, thank you for staying away from the race day threads last year and not dropping your deuces all over them. You said that you would stay away, and in that case you were truthful.

Ad Infinitum?

Lessee, I've posted 8 times in this thread, tried out a truck thread last night (which apparently makes me a liar because I watched one race in two years with a computer in front of me), and otherwise, only posted in NASCAR threads when it was an article I happened to submit and got greened, which would have been two or three since late-2010.

You make me want to troll the fark out of every NASCAR thread now just to piss you, specifically, off.

/but I won't, because pissing off one ass isn't worth pissing off everyone else who posts in the threads.


Jesus Christ, who would want to read what you post about anything?
2013-02-23 06:27:41 PM
1 votes:

akula: mjones73: How the hell would you put a cable on a tire?

It's not connected to the tire itself, but to the steering knuckle or hub. When a wheel is ripped loose like that it isn't the lug nuts that give- it's the attachment of the suspension components that breaks. With a strap or cable to the frame of the vehicle it increases the chance that the wheel won't go flying.

F1 has used them for several years.


F1 uses center-lug wheels and almost-strong-enough suspension arms that will collapse if the cars hit a bump.  Uprights breaking free is fairly common.

Circle track cars use steel control arms and IIRC they still use steel wheels even at the top tier.  The failure mode is the wheel pulling over the 1" hex lug nuts and/or ripping the center out of the wheel.
2013-02-23 06:26:39 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Teach idiots to sit ten feet from 3,500-pound amalgamations of hot metal traveling at 250 feet per second.
Kinetic, people, kinetic.
Danger.


10 feet, 100 feet, doesn't really matter.  If there's a wheel with your name on it, you're done.  There's a photo at the Jalopnik link that shows one of the wheels went all the way to the sky boxes.  NASCAR wheels are heavy things.  Move them at 190MPH and they'll got a lot further than 10 feet.

In 1987, a fan at the Indy 500 was standing at the highest row of their high grandstands and was killed instantly by flying wheel.
 

/If you're in the grandstands, you're at risk.
2013-02-23 06:24:00 PM
1 votes:

ontariolightning: Is Michael Annet alive?


yeah. he's being kept overnight for observation. Severe chest bruising, and I would assume it is a steering wheel shaped bruise
2013-02-23 06:23:34 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: So, basically, I watch one race in two years, and that proves something?


Yes it proves that you were lying when you say you don't watch. But that doesn't really matter...

As someone who has followed NASCAR, most likely since before you were born, I am in complete agreement that the sport is a shell of what it used to be. I don't like what has happened either.
I'm just tired of reading your posts about it ad infinitum. You sound like a broken record.
Having said that, thank you for staying away from the race day threads last year and not dropping your deuces all over them. You said that you would stay away, and in that case you were truthful.
2013-02-23 06:22:28 PM
1 votes:
The fan who took the video of the tire ending up in the seats probably should have held on to it and sold it to a news or sports network instead of upping it to YouTube and getting a copyright notice.
2013-02-23 06:22:24 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 06:21:51 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: They're interviewing fans who say that a guy got hit in the head with a "piece of steel" and that after it bounced off of his head, it embedded itself in his wife's stomach.


Welcome to Rube Goldberg's abortion clinic.
2013-02-23 06:20:59 PM
1 votes:
They're interviewing fans who say that a guy got hit in the head with a "piece of steel" and that after it bounced off of his head, it embedded itself in his wife's stomach.
2013-02-23 06:19:58 PM
1 votes:
Holy sh*t what a wreck! Hope everyone recovers and no one was killed.
2013-02-23 06:17:30 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 06:16:54 PM
1 votes:
Just watched the video from the stands again.

There was a cameraman right where the engine came through.  He wasn't there when the camera panned back.

Fark.
2013-02-23 06:16:16 PM
1 votes:
The restrictor plates were enacted after Bobby Allison's absurd crash at Talladega in '87 when he flipped into the fencing and launched debris into the stands.  

Fun fact NASCAR: Your plates don't work. Yes, you slow the cars down, but you do it in such a way that the cars are forced artificially close together - dramatically increasing the risk of catastrophic accident.

Shrink the engines if you're obsessed with the speeds, but otherwise rip out the first 20 rows of seats at each track and just let the cars go.If you restrict them, you get these sorts of accidents. If you don't, you still get accidents but they tend to wind up causing less damage as a whole.
2013-02-23 06:14:30 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: If they didn't regulate things, somebody would be out there with a car doing 250 mph on straightaways.


you can regulate things and not destroy the differences between the cars.
2013-02-23 06:11:26 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Part of the issue with NASCAR is they refuse to let anyone succeed by actually having a better car and/or engine. When Petty was dominating way back in the day, they outlawed Chrysler's engine. A few years back when Dodge, or was it Toyota, had cars that were getting through the air better than the others NASCAR forced them to make a change no one else had to make. Instead of telling the people with the slower/worse stuff to suck it up and make better stuff they've always been after punishing anyone who figures out how to do better than the pack.


If they didn't regulate things, somebody would be out there with a car doing 250 mph on straightaways.
2013-02-23 06:06:06 PM
1 votes:

Kurohone: stirfrybry: Hey GAT,
stick to watching figure skating and ice curling.

Christ no!  Do you know how many stubbed toes and carpal tunnel injuries you can get from curling!  That'll be next on the ban list!

/just started curling this year.  A LOT more physical that it looks


I actually really enjoying watching curling last Winter Olympics.  There's a lot more strategy to that than seems at first.
2013-02-23 06:05:12 PM
1 votes:

RealAmericanHero: the ha ha guy: Yes, how dare someone assume that stuff from the first few hours of driver's ed would be common knowledge. I bet those people think we know how to operate gas pumps and parking brakes too.

Right, and knowing how your computer's file system works and why you get page faults is on par with knowing how to move your mouse. And I guess my driver's ed teachers were negligent for not explaining the specifics of the steam that appears when driving a car 200 MPH. Oh well, I managed to get by without knowing that extremely crucial and not at all trivial bit of information.



So 200MPH steam is magically different than 50MPH steam or steam while parked? These aren't run by magic pixie dust, these are normal cars, and abide by the same basic laws of physics as every single other car in existence.

And if your driver's ed course didn't tell you the absolute basics like "if your car starts steaming, it's probably overheating and you should pull over", you need to get a refund, and possibly re-take the class.
2013-02-23 06:04:59 PM
1 votes:

rhiannon: FirstNationalBastard: These aren't real races.Daytona and Talladega should either be cut down bankingwise or bulldozed and replaced by two short tracks.

Stop watching.


I don't watch.Haven't since the bullshiat ending to the 2010 season. But NASCAR is the same old corrupt, slow to react organization they've always been, so the arguments from 1987 still hold up today.
2013-02-23 06:04:21 PM
1 votes:
Dude in the video did exactly what I suspected he had done when I saw the still shot of the injury from above.  He took the shirt off his back to help the guy sitting behind him.  I love this community.  Troll away, you can't take that away from us.
2013-02-23 06:04:18 PM
1 votes:

TiiiMMMaHHH: do NASCAR tickets come with fine print?  Is it like a ski lift ticket, where, if you look really close, you see that your death is your problem, should you die?


Yes.
2013-02-23 06:03:36 PM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: FirstNationalBastard: should have been in use long before Dale Earnhardt was killed. 3 drivers had already died of similar injuries before Feb. 18, 2001. But it wasn't. Tey needed their biggest star's brainstem ripped apart before they would do somethin

Except it ALREADY WAS in use. Dale just refused to use it, and it was still optional at the time.


It was in use by Kyle Petty and Brett Bodine. BFD.

It should have been mandatory after Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin wound up dead.
2013-02-23 06:02:38 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: These aren't real races.Daytona and Talladega should either be cut down bankingwise or bulldozed and replaced by two short tracks.


Stop watching.
2013-02-23 06:02:35 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: should have been in use long before Dale Earnhardt was killed. 3 drivers had already died of similar injuries before Feb. 18, 2001. But it wasn't. Tey needed their biggest star's brainstem ripped apart before they would do somethin


Except it ALREADY WAS in use. Dale just refused to use it, and it was still optional at the time.
2013-02-23 06:02:14 PM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: itsfullofstars: NASCAR is blocking fan video of the aftermath in the stands on "copyright grounds"

https://twitter.com/bobbychuck/status/305447419930370050

Nascar searches and blocks for all videos upload on race day with the race name or nascar in the title.

Not just this one.


Someone might just have to make sure they *don't* include "NASCAR" or "Daytona 500" or "Daytona" when posting that video.
2013-02-23 06:02:07 PM
1 votes:
So now video you shoot on your phone isn't even yours?
2013-02-23 06:01:42 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Dude must be the Flash with those reaction times.


Yeah, you're right, a reaction time of several seconds would be pretty unbelievable.
2013-02-23 06:00:04 PM
1 votes:

itsfullofstars: NASCAR is blocking fan video of the aftermath in the stands on "copyright grounds"

https://twitter.com/bobbychuck/status/305447419930370050


Nascar searches and blocks for all videos upload on race day with the race name or nascar in the title.

Not just this one.
2013-02-23 05:57:58 PM
1 votes:

the ha ha guy: Yes, how dare someone assume that stuff from the first few hours of driver's ed would be common knowledge. I bet those people think we know how to operate gas pumps and parking brakes too.


Right, and knowing how your computer's file system works and why you get page faults is on par with knowing how to move your mouse. And I guess my driver's ed teachers were negligent for not explaining the specifics of the steam that appears when driving a car 200 MPH. Oh well, I managed to get by without knowing that extremely crucial and not at all trivial bit of information.
2013-02-23 05:57:04 PM
1 votes:

Dinodork: Dumb-Ass-Monkey: banshee612: Here's a video of the crash from the grandstands and the aftermath. The film was taken right next to where the tire landed.

http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW65Tyji_s&feature=youtu.be

Jesus f*cking Christ.

And NASCAR has already taken it down.


it's on CNN, so they're too late
2013-02-23 05:57:01 PM
1 votes:

BunkyBrewman: Popcorn Johnny: A tire rocketed through the fence and into the stands, not good at all.

No kidding.  I was at the Flemington speedway (dirt track, been closed for awhile) when I was a kid and a tire came off one of the cars onto a ramp between the stands and killed a guy.  Poor guy never had a chance when something that big and heavy is coming that fast at you.


Flemington was a great track...that horrible incident aside.
2013-02-23 05:56:39 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: NASCAR doesn't spend their own money on safety R&D. NASCAR waits for Indycar, road racing, or the FIA to develop a system, then, sometimes as much as a decade later, triumph's "their" new (decade old) safety system.


Holy crap.. You could not be more wrong.
2013-02-23 05:56:24 PM
1 votes:
do NASCAR tickets come with fine print?  Is it like a ski lift ticket, where, if you look really close, you see that your death is your problem, should you die?
2013-02-23 05:56:24 PM
1 votes:

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: banshee612: Here's a video of the crash from the grandstands and the aftermath. The film was taken right next to where the tire landed.

http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW65Tyji_s&feature=youtu.be

Jesus f*cking Christ.


And NASCAR has already taken it down.
2013-02-23 05:55:03 PM
1 votes:
Hey GAT,
stick to watching figure skating and ice curling.
2013-02-23 05:52:06 PM
1 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: I've heard it said that the only true sports are auto racing and rock climbing...

Because there is actually risk of the demise of the participants.


Tell that to boxers like Duk Koo Kim and Benny Paret.
2013-02-23 05:50:52 PM
1 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: "WOOOOOOOOH!!!! PEOPLE GETTING INJURED IS AWESOME!!"

or

"YEEEHAAAH, IMMA CATCH ME THAT ENGINE!!!!"


or

WOOOOO TONY STEWART WON!!! HOLY SH*T ACCIDENT HAPPENING SO QUICKLY THAT I DON'T HAVE TIME TO REACT BEFORE THE CAMERA SNAPS THIS PICTURE!!
2013-02-23 05:50:26 PM
1 votes:
Here's a video of the crash from the grandstands and the aftermath. The film was taken right next to where the tire landed.

http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVW65Tyji_s&feature=youtu.be
2013-02-23 05:50:05 PM
1 votes:

Kurohone: BronyMedic: Well, it's nice to know that apparently other people are allowed to make fun of NASCAR other than myself, especially when it comes to an event which everyone watches NASCAR hoping to see.

It's sad this happened, but do people really expect different when it involves just ONE inadvertent right turn to send car parts flying at 200 mph?

Really?  You don't get why your pock mocking NASCAR fans by implying that they would be cheering at people getting injured would be offensive?

And no, you really don't expect this at all.  I've been watching races, live and n TV, for 2 decades now.  I don't even need to move to my toes to count the number of times I've seen accidents ilke this, where the spectators get involved.  It's horrific.  Driver injuries, even deaths, you learn to expect.  But they are taking the risks, and getting the rewards.  The spectators don't expect this, no more than that little girl at a hockey game expected to die, no more than a person at a baseball game expects major reconstructive surgery after a bat goes into the stands.


Actually you should. I used to bring my baseball glove with me to catch pucks that flew into the crowd. Seen more than a few people get popped in the face by not paying attention. And yes when you go to baseball games you should watch out for bats and balls flying into the crowd as well. It's part of the sport. And unless you want to install fences around every single crowd those things will continue to happen. Same with racing. Even as a kid I knew that when going to an auto race parts flying into the crowd was a possibility.

Now they should always try to improve on safety at these events. And any negligence should be punished. but if you want to be 100% safe at any event stay home and watch it on tv.
2013-02-23 05:47:15 PM
1 votes:
Speed reports that 15 fans were sent to local hospitals, and one is currently in surgery.
2013-02-23 05:45:36 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 05:43:55 PM
1 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: BeSerious: I hope they ban the sport.

/crosses fingers.

I don't watch it, or even appreciate it as a sport, but it does a lot of good for society.  Think of all the safety features in your car that were originally invented for racing, then made it into consumer cars.  Hint: most of them started in racing.


Also, moonshine.
2013-02-23 05:40:15 PM
1 votes:

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: Donnchadha: The couple superspeedway races I've seen, I remember 44 cars racing in two lines of 22 -- all packed that close. I wasn't sure if they're trying to break up the giant lines by rule at the moment.

It's mainly the super speedways, like Daytona and Talledega, where the restrictor plate is in use that they run the tandems. It started last year at Daytona after NASCAR adjusted the aerodynamics of the car.


my bad, 2011, not 2012
2013-02-23 05:39:54 PM
1 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: I've heard it said that the only true sports are auto racing and rock climbing...

Because there is actually risk of the demise of the participants.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sportspeople_who_died_during_th ei r_careers

ctrl+f "in game" and "in-game" turned up 22 hits, mostly football from neck injuries.  I'm sure there's a ton more
2013-02-23 05:38:36 PM
1 votes:

C18H27NO3: Day_Old_Dutchie: I've heard it said that the only true sports are auto racing and rock climbing...

Because there is actually risk of the demise of the participants.

They still have boxing, right?


Jesus. Are you still taping bumfights?
2013-02-23 05:38:04 PM
1 votes:

Donnchadha: The couple superspeedway races I've seen, I remember 44 cars racing in two lines of 22 -- all packed that close. I wasn't sure if they're trying to break up the giant lines by rule at the moment.


It's mainly the super speedways, like Daytona and Talledega, where the restrictor plate is in use that they run the tandems. It started last year at Daytona after NASCAR adjusted the aerodynamics of the car.
2013-02-23 05:35:22 PM
1 votes:
Well, it's nice to know that apparently other people are allowed to make fun of NASCAR other than myself, especially when it comes to an event which everyone watches NASCAR hoping to see.

It's sad this happened, but do people really expect different when it involves just ONE inadvertent right turn to send car parts flying at 200 mph?
2013-02-23 05:34:46 PM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: Whered they learn that tactic from?


No idea.  They're farking idiots, so I don't put much thought into anything that comes from their mouths.  At least one of them has referred to the President as a n___er, but maintains that he's not a racist because he "hears blacks call each other that all the time, so are they racist against themselves?"  fark him especially.
2013-02-23 05:33:32 PM
1 votes:
I've heard it said that the only true sports are auto racing and rock climbing...

Because there is actually risk of the demise of the participants.
2013-02-23 05:32:49 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: GreatGlavinsGhost: I don't follow NASCAR, but the stands seem empty, are they always that way?

It's a Nationwide race, that's NASCAR's second tier of racing, the big crows show up for Sprint Cup races, NASCAR's top tier racing.


It's second tier the way minor league baseball would be if Verlander decided to play for the Mudhens for shiats and giggles.
2013-02-23 05:32:39 PM
1 votes:

mikemoto: Why does this concern you farkers? More than likely it was some Republicans that got hurt.


My friends, who like me are Democrats, are in those stands.  They were off to one side, and are posting pictures.
2013-02-23 05:31:42 PM
1 votes:

mikaloyd: Don't Troll Me Bro!: mikemoto: Don't Troll Me Bro!: mikemoto: Why does this concern you farkers? More than likely it was some Republicans that got hurt.

We're not all as vindictive and hateful towards our fellow man as you.  What's it like to immediately have to put everything into a "your team vs. my team" political spectrum?

Hmm, my sarcasm meter was probably confused with a frog size exaggerator.

Doh! It's just so hard to tell anymore.  We've been through the looking glass for so long it's hard to remember what the normal world was like.  I mean, I've got relatives that seriously blame Obama for the economic collapse that started a year he took office, and will get mad at me for asking how they can blame him for something that happened a year before he took office.  shiat, they were blaming him for the Iraq quagmire just a couple months after his inauguration.

Whered they learn that tactic from?

The Fark Politics tab
2013-02-23 05:31:33 PM
1 votes:

Matthew Keene: They've elected a new Pope.


so much win
2013-02-23 05:30:50 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 05:30:10 PM
1 votes:
Looking at photos of the fence and debris makes me wonder if people were injured by the cables making up part of the barrier when they snapped. Those things are/were likely under a ton of tension.

Not sure why there isn't a 10-15 foot no mans land between those fences and the seats and standing area.
2013-02-23 05:29:23 PM
1 votes:

GreatGlavinsGhost: I don't follow NASCAR, but the stands seem empty, are they always that way?


It's a Nationwide race, that's NASCAR's second tier of racing, the big crows show up for Sprint Cup races, NASCAR's top tier racing.
2013-02-23 05:27:30 PM
1 votes:

semiotix: Triumph: If half your car crosses the finish line in the form of debris, what's the ruling?

You have to complete the final lap under your own power, so probably DNF.

I'm kind of optimistic that they might get through this with zero fatalities. Yes, that tire will have killed everyone it touched, no questions asked. But the stands were pretty sparsely filled. Here's hoping.


If something like this were to happen tomorrow instead of today, there would be a wildly different outcome.  Hopefully tomorrow doesn't see any wrecks on this scale.
2013-02-23 05:27:09 PM
1 votes:

mikemoto: Don't Troll Me Bro!: mikemoto: Why does this concern you farkers? More than likely it was some Republicans that got hurt.

We're not all as vindictive and hateful towards our fellow man as you.  What's it like to immediately have to put everything into a "your team vs. my team" political spectrum?

Hmm, my sarcasm meter was probably confused with a frog size exaggerator.


Doh! It's just so hard to tell anymore.  We've been through the looking glass for so long it's hard to remember what the normal world was like.  I mean, I've got relatives that seriously blame Obama for the economic collapse that started a year he took office, and will get mad at me for asking how they can blame him for something that happened a year before he took office.  shiat, they were blaming him for the Iraq quagmire just a couple months after his inauguration.
2013-02-23 05:27:01 PM
1 votes:

Donnchadha: Dumb-Ass-Monkey: JonBuck: Alright. Still, I can't believe those cars were so close together even before the crash.

that's just racing. Happens 36 times a year, give or take, per series.

Yeah, I don't really follow NASCAR and even I knew that they have to do that major drafting thing in order to maintain a leading position. I did notice that they were driving in groups of two -- and only two -- is that a new rule to try to prevent the giant clusterfark, like this?


not a rule, but it's been found that the two car tandem can make for some good speed and good passing, outside of the pack. The rear car drafts off of the leader, and in turn his extra power can push the leader faster. The drivers who were doing the tandem driving were fine, because they were in the lead. Those back in the pack were clumped together, and that's why so many cars got caught up in this wreck, and the Big One that happened just a few laps prior.
2013-02-23 05:26:55 PM
1 votes:

Cheese and Rice: NASCAR dudes, what's that white vapor looking stuff streaming off the cars?


Steam, as water from the now busted radiators gets to escape
2013-02-23 05:26:16 PM
1 votes:
Wait... I've seen this before...

www.filmofilia.com
2013-02-23 05:26:09 PM
1 votes:

Cheese and Rice: NASCAR dudes, what's that white vapor looking stuff streaming off the cars?


Cars run very close together at restrictor plate races, and overheating is an issue. Near the end.. no one cares if they are overheating, so they just go for broke.
2013-02-23 05:26:05 PM
1 votes:
So to buy a ticket to one of these races, does a fan have to sign a waiver? Or what? Whatever the case, I sure hope NASCAR covers medical costs here. Just... wow.
2013-02-23 05:24:06 PM
1 votes:

Kurohone: GAT_00: Shadow Blasko: GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

Its a bit more than a chain link fence..

WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

it's not exactly a regular chain link fence

It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.

I know you're just trolling, but for those who are trying to learn, if that was a 'regular' chainlink fence that engine would be in the concourse.

Seriously, take a look at those things some times.  Extra strength wire making the chainlink, reinforced posts set in concrete at remarkably short intervals, the whole thing backed with twisted cable ever 2 feet or so behind _that_....

Looks to me like the 32 hit a pole at just the right angle and sheared it.  The angle was a bit different than Keselowski's big one a couple years ago, so instead of getting rebounded right away, the car slide around and hit the next pole behind the front axle, which is what tore the front end off.  Tire probably was lost on the initial impact, which is why it cleared the fence and went so far up into the stands.

Kind of surprised to see that NASCAR hasn't got the cables on the tires yet.  That'll change by next week, quite possibly by tomorrow.


How the hell would you put a cable on a tire?
2013-02-23 05:23:52 PM
1 votes:

germ78: I wonder how long it will take to repair the damaged sections of the fence?


They're already working on it like and army of ants after you knock over their hill.
2013-02-23 05:23:42 PM
1 votes:

SurelyShirley: ontariolightning: Meh. It's nothing like those eastern european air show crashes where peoples guts are all over the ground .. and oh look a severed head!

Got a link?


you were warned. That is the google search. Its the first link.

http://www.google.ca/#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&q=ukranianair+show+cr as h+video&oq=ukranianair+show+crash+video&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..0i13i30.141 46.16867.1.17435.8.8.0.0.0.1.294.1510.0j5j3.8.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.1.4. tablet-gws.vbJfgna_uhI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42768644,d. aWc&fp=d5f755bef315c11b&biw=768&bih=928
2013-02-23 05:23:11 PM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Not like you, of all people, might acknowledge the advanced that NASCAR has made in safety, not only for its own drivers, but for rescue workers and medical personnel, like yourself. Yeah .. screw that.


And don't forget a huge percentage of safety and performance advances that have made their way from racing into normal cars over the decades.
2013-02-23 05:22:06 PM
1 votes:
I feel bad for those injured, but really, it's not like anyone can say this was unexpected/outside the realm of possibility.  Same goes for airshows.  Whenever you try and push a machine that runs off of highly combustible fuel to/beyond its limits, especially when said machine is traveling extremely fast, there is a high probability of something very bad happening.
2013-02-23 05:22:04 PM
1 votes:

cps-static.rovicorp.com

LineNoise:
Basically it gives the allusion of people packed in the seats even if nobody is there or the crowd is thin



one might say NASCAR likes to Use Their Illusion...

/obscure?
2013-02-23 05:21:49 PM
1 votes:

RandomRandom: /This was just a matter of time, crappy fences, heavy cars.


Yeah, so weak that the fence decapitated an Indycar racer last year ... or have you already forgotten that?
2013-02-23 05:21:45 PM
1 votes:

Professor Farksworth: BunkyBrewman: WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.

Cars have hit that fence scraped along it for 50 yards and it has held. It has held as car parts the size of a dinner table fly into it. It has held as cars have rolled up into it.

Yet it didn't hold today.

But it DID keep the actual car from coming inside the fence, which would've resulted in tens of deaths. The Catchfence's job is to catch debris and the car, and for only those pieces to make it through after a 3,400 lbs car hit it at 150 MPH, then I'd say it pretty damn good job.


Of all the spots on Daytona, that section should be reinforced more than it is.  Daytona knows this.  Nascar knows this.  Unfortunately, it takes things like this to make the sport safer.
2013-02-23 05:21:26 PM
1 votes:

BunkyBrewman: WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.

Cars have hit that fence scraped along it for 50 yards and it has held. It has held as car parts the size of a dinner table fly into it. It has held as cars have rolled up into it.

Yet it didn't hold today.


Those fences aren't impenetrable force shields. I did what it's supposed to do and stopped damn near everything from entering into the grandstands.
2013-02-23 05:21:03 PM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Actually.. that is how plate racing works. He blocked, shiat happened. they already talked to him, he made no excuses about it.

Bump draft racing works like that. Understand before you get pissy



Yeah! So what if people die! Right?

/ after a few hours of nothing but watching freaking cars go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round  prolly praying for death to put them out of the misery of that boredom, anyway
2013-02-23 05:21:02 PM
1 votes:
There are at least 16 people right now who are very grateful that they were in line for an MGD and a Krispy Kreme Hamburger when the wreck happened.
2013-02-23 05:20:53 PM
1 votes:

mikemoto: Why does this concern you farkers? More than likely it was some Republicans that got hurt.


We're not all as vindictive and hateful towards our fellow man as you.  What's it like to immediately have to put everything into a "your team vs. my team" political spectrum?
2013-02-23 05:20:32 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Shadow Blasko: GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

Its a bit more than a chain link fence..

WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

it's not exactly a regular chain link fence

It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.


I know you're just trolling, but for those who are trying to learn, if that was a 'regular' chainlink fence that engine would be in the concourse.

Seriously, take a look at those things some times.  Extra strength wire making the chainlink, reinforced posts set in concrete at remarkably short intervals, the whole thing backed with twisted cable ever 2 feet or so behind _that_....

Looks to me like the 32 hit a pole at just the right angle and sheared it.  The angle was a bit different than Keselowski's big one a couple years ago, so instead of getting rebounded right away, the car slide around and hit the next pole behind the front axle, which is what tore the front end off.  Tire probably was lost on the initial impact, which is why it cleared the fence and went so far up into the stands.

Kind of surprised to see that NASCAR hasn't got the cables on the tires yet.  That'll change by next week, quite possibly by tomorrow.
2013-02-23 05:20:17 PM
1 votes:
BTW the fact the engine is sitting right next to the wall, means the fence sucked up a lot of energy in the process, if it hadn't, well that engine could be 20 feet away from the seats.
2013-02-23 05:20:15 PM
1 votes:

JonBuck: The idiot driving the white car behind the leader looks like the cause of this crash. It looks like he was bumper-to-bumper with the black car through most of the final lap. He gave the car ahead of him a little nudge, and BOOM.

I hope they throw the book at him.  There's no excuse.



Oh puhleeze. That is just racing. The guy driving behind has a duty to his sponsors, etc to try to win and that is what he did.  He made a last second move.  You could just as easily blame the guy in front (I wouldnt though) since he tried to block the pass attempt (again just a standard tactic). Neither is at fault. Its just part of the game.
2013-02-23 05:20:01 PM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

Its a bit more than a chain link fence..




Looks like a chain link fence. Acts like a chain link fence. Must be a duck.
2013-02-23 05:19:50 PM
1 votes:

JonBuck: I hope they throw the book at him. There's no excuse.


Just about every driver in the field has done something just as bad at one time or another.  No driver should be singled out for special punishment because NASCAR's fence failed.

Yes, it is NASCAR's fence.  NASCAR's owners own (the company that owns) this track, they know the deficiencies of this sort of fencing.   You want to blame someone, blame NASCAR.  They've known for years that these thin fences couldn't keep engines from shooting through.  Much lighter IndyCar transmissions have torn through nearly identical fencing on more than one occasion.

Maybe NASCAR's insurers will wake them up.  If I were NASCAR's insurer, I'd pull their coverage today.  This could have killed a dozen people, probably didn't, but easily could have.

/This was just a matter of time, crappy fences, heavy cars.
2013-02-23 05:19:32 PM
1 votes:

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: JonBuck: Alright. Still, I can't believe those cars were so close together even before the crash.

that's just racing. Happens 36 times a year, give or take, per series.


Yeah, I don't really follow NASCAR and even I knew that they have to do that major drafting thing in order to maintain a leading position. I did notice that they were driving in groups of two -- and only two -- is that a new rule to try to prevent the giant clusterfark, like this?
2013-02-23 05:19:25 PM
1 votes:

BunkyBrewman: WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.

Cars have hit that fence scraped along it for 50 yards and it has held. It has held as car parts the size of a dinner table fly into it. It has held as cars have rolled up into it.

Yet it didn't hold today.


as the saying goes, sh*t happens. Nothing works 100% of the time. Nothing. Usually tho the failure is mild, not spectacular.
2013-02-23 05:17:41 PM
1 votes:

HempHead: Popcorn Johnny: [pbs.twimg.com image 850x637]

Who came up with the colors for the seats? That's down right ugly.


Makes it look more like people in the stands when the seats are empty on TV
2013-02-23 05:17:21 PM
1 votes:

JonBuck: Alright. Still, I can't believe those cars were so close together even before the crash.


that's just racing. Happens 36 times a year, give or take, per series.
2013-02-23 05:15:36 PM
1 votes:

ontariolightning: Meh. It's nothing like those eastern european air show crashes where peoples guts are all over the ground .. and oh look a severed head!


Got a link?
2013-02-23 05:15:16 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.


Cars have hit that fence scraped along it for 50 yards and it has held. It has held as car parts the size of a dinner table fly into it. It has held as cars have rolled up into it.
2013-02-23 05:15:12 PM
1 votes:

Triumph: If half your car crosses the finish line in the form of debris, what's the ruling?


Depends on which half the driver is in at the time.
2013-02-23 05:13:43 PM
1 votes:
pbs.twimg.com
2013-02-23 05:13:39 PM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

Its a bit more than a chain link fence..


WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.

it's not exactly a regular chain link fence


It must be since the longer video shows the engine just inside the fence line.
2013-02-23 05:13:30 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: JonBuck: The idiot driving the white car behind the leader looks like the cause of this crash.

The dude leading the race caused it. He admitted in a post-race interview that he was trying to block.


Alright. Still, I can't believe those cars were so close together even before the crash.
2013-02-23 05:13:23 PM
1 votes:

JonBuck: I hope they throw the book at him. There's no excuse.


everything you described happens dozens of times in every stock car race. Only rarely does it go wrong.
2013-02-23 05:12:43 PM
1 votes:

JonBuck: The idiot driving the white car behind the leader looks like the cause of this crash. It looks like he was bumper-to-bumper with the black car through most of the final lap. He gave the car ahead of him a little nudge, and BOOM.

I hope they throw the book at him.  There's no excuse.


Actually.. that is how plate racing works. He blocked, shiat happened. they already talked to him, he made no excuses about it.

Bump draft racing works like that. Understand before you get pissy
2013-02-23 05:11:51 PM
1 votes:
Isn't that the whole point of watching auto racing?

"Let me put it this way: when else am I going to see a twenty-six car collision and not be *in* the God damn thing?

upload.wikimedia.org
2013-02-23 05:11:17 PM
1 votes:
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (AP) - February 23, 2013 (WPVI) --Tony Stewart won a chaotic Nationwide Series race at Daytona International Speedway that ended with a frightening last-lap crash.


Regan Smith was leading coming to the checkered flag when he was turned sideways into the wall. Cars began wrecking all over the track, and rookie Kyle Larson's car went sailing into the fence that separates the track from the grandstands.

Stewart slid through the wreckage to the win.


When Larson's car came to a stop, it was missing its entire front end. There was a gaping hole in the fence, and a burning piece of car inside the fencing.


Shortly before the final three-lap sprint to the finish, Michael Annett was taken to a local hospital for further evaluation after a 13-car accident with five laps remaining
2013-02-23 05:11:14 PM
1 votes:
Since it's NASCAR, at least no one got any teeth knocked out.
2013-02-23 05:10:47 PM
1 votes:
So THAT'S what happens when you make a right turn...............
2013-02-23 05:09:44 PM
1 votes:
CNN is covering it now.
2013-02-23 05:09:28 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: A tire rocketed through the fence and into the stands, not good at all.


No kidding.  I was at the Flemington speedway (dirt track, been closed for awhile) when I was a kid and a tire came off one of the cars onto a ramp between the stands and killed a guy.  Poor guy never had a chance when something that big and heavy is coming that fast at you.
2013-02-23 05:08:53 PM
1 votes:
Debris injured people in the upper deck.

pbs.twimg.com
2013-02-23 05:08:41 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 05:08:29 PM
1 votes:

Cewley: nascar and buttsucking espn go into full lawsuit avoidance mode.


/Ya, they showed the engine laying in the walkway, but no victims laying on the ground, even though you could see they were being treated.  Way to avoid film of people hurt because it would be devastating to your wallet.  Don't worry, people have cell phones. I'm sure film will come soon.
2013-02-23 05:06:12 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Shocking. A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.


it's not exactly a regular chain link fence
2013-02-23 05:05:34 PM
1 votes:

LineNoise: Is it like baseball where you get to keep the engine if you catch it?


throw it back. Throw it back. Throw it back!
2013-02-23 05:05:17 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Shocking.  A chain link fence is not up to stopping real dangers resulting from cars going 200 MPH with a tendency to wreck.


Its a bit more than a chain link fence..
2013-02-23 05:04:48 PM
1 votes:
<a data-cke-saved-href="<a href=" href="<a href=" http:="" www.gannett-cdn.com="" media="" usatoday="" 2013="" 02="" 23="" nationwide6-4_3_rx512_c680x510.jpg?0f5c31de35bf4ef88a50c2e35ee3bc4da4b f3083"="" target="_blank">www.gannett-cdn.com
2013-02-23 05:03:31 PM
1 votes:
They're lucky the stands weren't packed or it could have been a lot worse. Probably also would have been some people walking next to the fence when the engine came through.
2013-02-23 05:00:33 PM
1 votes:
Is it like baseball where you get to keep the engine if you catch it?
2013-02-23 05:00:31 PM
1 votes:
2013-02-23 05:00:00 PM
1 votes:

dickfreckle: Jesus, that's awful. I know that race fans love crashes (whether they admit or not) but there comes a point when a crash is no longer entertainment.


When an engine lands in your lap?
2013-02-23 04:59:54 PM
1 votes:
pbs.twimg.com
2013-02-23 04:59:43 PM
1 votes:
download.lardlad.com

Simpsons did it!
2013-02-23 04:56:13 PM
1 votes:

dickfreckle: Jesus, that's awful. I know that race fans love crashes (whether they admit or not) but there comes a point when a crash is no longer entertainment.


Look at the first picture posted. There is a guy in the stands raising a fist in the air. He's above the blue number 32.
2013-02-23 04:54:08 PM
1 votes:
Watching the video, that's a bit worse than I was expecting.
2013-02-23 04:50:09 PM
1 votes:
Wow, Popcorn...that's really, really bad.
2013-02-23 04:38:28 PM
1 votes:
It looks like the entire front of the car was shredded and turned to shrapnel flying into the stands.  Ugh.
 
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