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(Jalopnik)   Insane crash marks end of Nationwide race at Daytona. Debris in stands, multiple injuries reported   (jalopnik.com) divider line 580
    More: Scary, Daytona, Regan Smith, injuries  
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18808 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 08:49:17 PM  

Captain Steroid: Why is it, whenever the Baltimore Ravens win the Super Bowl, someone DIES at Daytona?

I don't like this tradition! :-(


The injured person died? That sucks. I can't fathom just going to the track for a saturday afternoon race before the big event and having your life turned upside-down like that.

/yeah, tragedy can strike at any time (especially at a Nascar event), but man, that's shiatty
//RIP person I did not know but who had loved ones nonetheless
 
2013-02-23 08:52:17 PM  

LessO2: MFAWG: ontariolightning: Owen hart dies but lets continue the show!
Car crashes into crowd.. Hurry up and repair track for tomorrow

In all honesty, this is a thing that has happened at motorsports events every now and again for over a century, and often far, far worse than this one was.

Everyone understands that.

Tell that to the folks in the hospital.


they're in the hospital, not the morgue, and that's what matters tonight.
 
2013-02-23 08:54:08 PM  

Captain Steroid: Why is it, whenever the Baltimore Ravens win the Super Bowl, someone DIES at Daytona?

I don't like this tradition! :-(


we need to keep the Ravens from playing any more Super Bowls
 
2013-02-23 08:59:00 PM  
You do realize that NASCAR uses tons of tethers right?

They're built out of vectran


RandomRandom: Mister Peejay: The point I was trying to make is that F1 does not tether the wheel, it tethers the UPRIGHT to the car, since what breaks are the carpet fiber suspension links. Circle track cars have much more robust suspension design because the cars are heavier, run on banking, introduce suspension loads differently to begin with (coils and shocks directly on the lower arms instead of tension rods going straight from the uprights to inboard shocks), and have to deal with "contact" on an extremely regular basis. When a wheel comes off of a circle track car, it's generally only that, not the entire corner of the suspension.

None of that is really relevant, since the car so thoroughly disassembled itself.

Yes, I realized the differences you were addressing.

My point was that even if an F1 style wheel tether could somehow have been attached to just the wheels of that NASCAR vehicle, it would have been very unlikely to have kept those wheels out of the grandstand.

 
2013-02-23 09:02:00 PM  
mikaloyd They are removing it for tomorrows race.

i thought that same part was @ fault in Mikey Waltrip's near-fatal in Bristol?-sorta off-topic, it's too bad Kenny Irwin's folks sold the Children's Camp they started in his memory & all the furnishings at auction?
http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=64924
 
2013-02-23 09:04:07 PM  

Mock26: Popcorn Johnny: Fan video is near the bottom of this page. Try deleting this one, NASCAR.

Anyone who goes to a race and then cheers when there is a crash deserves to be set on fire.


Exactly.  They think it's all fun since the driver often walk away with minimal to no problems.  Those people don't take into consideration the potential for every wreck - that someone may not walk away.  Unfortunately, this shows that, even with some precautions, things can go bad fast.

Doubt the witnesses to that crash will ever cheer a wreck from now on.
 
2013-02-23 09:04:59 PM  

draa: Some Bass Playing Guy: Sitting higher up in the stands reduces this risk even further.

That's what we always tried to do but as I said, you have to walk down the fence line to even go to the bathroom or concessions. Instead of moving the seating back some distance from the track they still have it pinned up against it. There's also cops and track staff that stand down their to keep people from standing there. I wouldn't be suprised if some of them were the ones injured today since they are directly in the line of fire in this type accident. Not to mention that most people start to leave before the race ends and there's always a crowd down ther along that fence at that time.


Excellent points. I was only thinking about when people are at their seats.
 
2013-02-23 09:05:12 PM  

rhiannon: Triumph: Triumph: If half your car crosses the finish line in the form of debris, what's the ruling?

Popcorn Johnny: Fan video of the wreck from the infield.

Popcorn Johnny: I just realized that the #32 car finished the race.

I'm still waiting on a definitive ruling.

[l2.yimg.com image 512x388]

"I won...I guess."

[img.photobucket.com image 512x388]

"they puttin' mustard on that?"


It's kinda sad they treat the farking trophy as just another piece of advertising for the cameras, rather than something tasteful that a human might not of ashamed to display in the home. That thing looks like a beer ad from the front counter of a liquor store.
 
2013-02-23 09:07:09 PM  
You Farkers are so cynical, NASCAR announced they merely blocked the fan video of the NNS Drive 4 COPD300 crash out of respect for the INJURED FANS.  Whew! Glad that's settled;  https://twitter.com/ESPNMcGee/status/305481419734528000/photo/1
 
2013-02-23 09:11:00 PM  
Quick, before NASCAR lawyers play Whack-A-Mole(Digger?) with it Wow! the guy running the video was 3 SEATS AWAY from the tire-these fans never even knew it landed!-how fast could that thing have been traveling?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXqi0AyEfOA
 
2013-02-23 09:12:00 PM  

FlyingJ: mikaloyd They are removing it for tomorrows race.

i thought that same part was @ fault in Mikey Waltrip's near-fatal in Bristol?-sorta off-topic, it's too bad Kenny Irwin's folks sold the Children's Camp they started in his memory & all the furnishings at auction?
http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=64924


whole different thing. Waltrips was an open gate in the wall. This is a reinfrced gate on the catchfence. But they dont have the parts to put in a new gate so they are putting in gateless catchfence
 
2013-02-23 09:14:03 PM  

Triumph: Captain Steroid: Why is it, whenever the Baltimore Ravens win the Super Bowl, someone DIES at Daytona?

I don't like this tradition! :-(

I haven't seen a death reported and pray we won't.


Lol you talk to an imaginary friend.
 
2013-02-23 09:17:15 PM  

seelorq: It's kinda sad they treat the farking trophy as just another piece of advertising for the cameras, rather than something tasteful that a human might not of ashamed to display in the home. That thing looks like a beer ad from the front counter of a liquor store.



I'm guessing you've never actually been inside a Nascar fan's home...
 
2013-02-23 09:19:40 PM  

seelorq: rhiannon: Triumph: Triumph: If half your car crosses the finish line in the form of debris, what's the ruling?

Popcorn Johnny: Fan video of the wreck from the infield.

Popcorn Johnny: I just realized that the #32 car finished the race.

I'm still waiting on a definitive ruling.

[l2.yimg.com image 512x388]

"I won...I guess."

[img.photobucket.com image 512x388]

"they puttin' mustard on that?"

It's kinda sad they treat the farking trophy as just another piece of advertising for the cameras, rather than something tasteful that a human might not of ashamed to display in the home. That thing looks like a beer ad from the front counter of a liquor store.


Ok your thoughts are going much deeper into this than mine. Which is good.

What came to my mind was Smoke looking at a Whopper being made and being sorta pissed that they were making it wrong.
 p
 
2013-02-23 09:21:57 PM  

FlyingJ: You Farkers are so cynical, NASCAR announced they merely blocked the fan video of the NNS Drive 4 COPD300 crash out of respect for the INJURED FANS.  Whew! Glad that's settled;  https://twitter.com/ESPNMcGee/status/305481419734528000/photo/1


I've got this bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in...
 
2013-02-23 09:23:56 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-02-23 09:25:08 PM  
 
2013-02-23 09:26:27 PM  

kronicfeld: Bit'O'Gristle: Way to avoid film of people hurt because it would be devastating to your wallet.

That's an idiotic comment. Perhaps the film crew has the slightest modicum of respect for people who are actively receiving medical attention?


The first rule of holding a camera... never stop filming.
 
2013-02-23 09:26:47 PM  

mikaloyd: i.dailymail.co.uk


Car is sponsored by Clorox and Cottonelle? Given the odds he loaded his suit, convenient sponsors to have.
 
2013-02-23 09:27:19 PM  

the ha ha guy: seelorq: It's kinda sad they treat the farking trophy as just another piece of advertising for the cameras, rather than something tasteful that a human might not of ashamed to display in the home. That thing looks like a beer ad from the front counter of a liquor store.


I'm guessing you've never actually been inside a Nascar fan's home...


Ha..but yeah, I have, though I was thinking more of the drivers. Just GIS the 500 trophy. That one is pretty awesome.
 
2013-02-23 09:27:32 PM  

the ha ha guy: RealAmericanHero: the ha ha guy: Yes, how dare someone assume that stuff from the first few hours of driver's ed would be common knowledge. I bet those people think we know how to operate gas pumps and parking brakes too.

Right, and knowing how your computer's file system works and why you get page faults is on par with knowing how to move your mouse. And I guess my driver's ed teachers were negligent for not explaining the specifics of the steam that appears when driving a car 200 MPH. Oh well, I managed to get by without knowing that extremely crucial and not at all trivial bit of information.


So 200MPH steam is magically different than 50MPH steam or steam while parked? These aren't run by magic pixie dust, these are normal cars, and abide by the same basic laws of physics as every single other car in existence.

And if your driver's ed course didn't tell you the absolute basics like "if your car starts steaming, it's probably overheating and you should pull over", you need to get a refund, and possibly re-take the class.


Can't speak for anyone else, but my HS driver's ed, back in the 70's, taught us nothing of the sort.
Would've been nice if they had, but it definitely wasn't part of the curriculum.
 
2013-02-23 09:30:57 PM  

mikaloyd: The Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283518/Massive-fiery-car-wr ec k-NASCAR-race-Daytona-Speedway-sends-engine-stands.html


Again not make lite, but there's a guy there who appears to have spilled his beer.
 
2013-02-23 09:37:19 PM  
 mikaloydThe Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want
The cuts on the guy's back are interesting-was he thrown back into his seat by the impact?

These guys in the flagstand are having a total underoo changer;  https://twitter.com/van_overklift/status/305502577242550273/photo/1
 
2013-02-23 09:41:29 PM  

LineNoise: Popcorn Johnny:

Gotee, bad tattoo, no shirt, sleeveless shirt, ugly pants....all that tire missed was a dude in jorts and a woman with a restraining order on her third husband for nascar bingo


/THIS
 
2013-02-23 09:43:18 PM  
The fan video tells the real story.  This event happened damn quickly.  No time to react.  Cars going by, some smoke, less smoke, twisted fence, people freaking.  Look...a tire.  All in, like, 250 mS.

Damn.  I really need to go see a Daytona race.
 
2013-02-23 09:52:15 PM  

Mister Peejay: akula: mjones73: How the hell would you put a cable on a tire?

It's not connected to the tire itself, but to the steering knuckle or hub. When a wheel is ripped loose like that it isn't the lug nuts that give- it's the attachment of the suspension components that breaks. With a strap or cable to the frame of the vehicle it increases the chance that the wheel won't go flying.

F1 has used them for several years.

F1 uses center-lug wheels and almost-strong-enough suspension arms that will collapse if the cars hit a bump.  Uprights breaking free is fairly common.

Circle track cars use steel control arms and IIRC they still use steel wheels even at the top tier.  The failure mode is the wheel pulling over the 1" hex lug nuts and/or ripping the center out of the wheel.


From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.
 
2013-02-23 09:53:33 PM  

FlyingJ: mikaloydThe Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want
The cuts on the guy's back are interesting-was he thrown back into his seat by the impact?



Since they're on the back of his left shoulder, I'd guess he turned away from the oncoming shrapnel while seated.
 
2013-02-23 09:56:41 PM  

ontariolightning: SurelyShirley: ontariolightning: Meh. It's nothing like those eastern european air show crashes where peoples guts are all over the ground .. and oh look a severed head!

Got a link?

you were warned. That is the google search. Its the first link.

http://www.google.ca/#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&q=ukranianair+show+cr as h+video&oq=ukranianair+show+crash+video&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..0i13i30.141 46.16867.1.17435.8.8.0.0.0.1.294.1510.0j5j3.8.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.1.4. tablet-gws.vbJfgna_uhI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42768644,d. aWc&fp=d5f755bef315c11b&biw=768&bih=928


I was working Flutag in '88 at Ramstein when the Italians mucked up their routine. I've pretty much forgotten all the morbid sights, smells, and sounds.. but I know some gruesome shiat happened that day.
 
2013-02-23 10:03:00 PM  

Popcorn Johnny:


How did he take that picture with no hands? Google Glass? Was he really wearing a handsfree camera the whole time as a headband?
 
2013-02-23 10:03:50 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

That'll buff right out.
 
2013-02-23 10:07:47 PM  

studebaker hoch: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x558]

That'll buff right out.


Hey, the Hendrick logo is still clean. That's what matters, right?

/sadly, it is...
 
2013-02-23 10:09:22 PM  
Rubbin' is racin', come for the wreckin'
 
2013-02-23 10:14:33 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-23 10:20:11 PM  
the guy that ripped his grey T-shirt off to attend to the wounded should be recognized and turned into a meme immediately. Most people run away, homey stood up. Thanks, mister grey shirt guy.

We could all learn a lot from you
 
2013-02-23 10:23:35 PM  

wxboy: FlyingJ: mikaloydThe Daily Mail has all the gruesome photos you vultures want
The cuts on the guy's back are interesting-was he thrown back into his seat by the impact?


Since they're on the back of his left shoulder, I'd guess he turned away from the oncoming shrapnel while seated.


I think that's the guy that took the hit from the tire, shirtless dude is the one you could see pulling off his shirt in the video that's now been taken down...
 
2013-02-23 10:23:48 PM  

mjones73: Mister Peejay: akula: mjones73: How the hell would you put a cable on a tire?

It's not connected to the tire itself, but to the steering knuckle or hub. When a wheel is ripped loose like that it isn't the lug nuts that give- it's the attachment of the suspension components that breaks. With a strap or cable to the frame of the vehicle it increases the chance that the wheel won't go flying.

F1 has used them for several years.

F1 uses center-lug wheels and almost-strong-enough suspension arms that will collapse if the cars hit a bump.  Uprights breaking free is fairly common.

Circle track cars use steel control arms and IIRC they still use steel wheels even at the top tier.  The failure mode is the wheel pulling over the 1" hex lug nuts and/or ripping the center out of the wheel.

From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.


Suspension looks like it went with the other one, so either way....
 
2013-02-23 10:41:44 PM  

mjones73: From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.


In the case of the wheel assembly that went into the stands it still had the upper and lower control arms as well as the spindle and hub, brake rotor, and the caliper attached. Probably about 140-150 lbs total weight. It looks as if it broke two upper control arm mounting bolts and the single lower one which is about the only thing holding that grouping in place.

/suspension mechanic
 
2013-02-23 10:51:56 PM  

mikaloyd: You sound very concerned


NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

NASCAR only reacts to blood.  Maybe this drew enough blood for them to finally spend some damn money testing and developing fencing that can actually stop their cars.
 
2013-02-23 11:04:38 PM  

RandomRandom: Ima4nic8or: It must be a tough balancing act for Nascar. On the one hand you want to minimize the risk of anyone getting hurt. On the other hand you want fans to be able to get close to the action.

Most who follow motorsports have known for years that these fences were inadequate at high velocities.  NASCAR has never tried to truly address the problem.  Hell, these fences are inadequate for much lighter Indycars.

Most think the fence problem has never been truly addressed because there is no self evident solution.  NASCAR would have to test and design and test and design their own solution, at great expense.  NASCAR isn't much for spending their own money on safety R&D.  Most of NASCAR's much triumphed safety systems were designed by others.  The SAFER barrier was designed university researchers at the impetus of Indycar, not NASCAR.  HANS was designed by independent engineers connected to road racing, not NASCAR.

NASCAR does a lot of talking about safety, but leaves the heavy lifting of R&D spending to others.

It's about time NASCAR's insurers dropped them or skyrocketed their rates.  Money is the only thing that will wake up the NASCAR head office.


www.sftv.com.au

"Transparent aluminum?  So. Is it worth something ta ya...or should I just...punch up clear?"
 
2013-02-23 11:04:57 PM  
So, who won the giant block of Velveeta?
 
2013-02-23 11:06:10 PM  

RandomRandom: mikaloyd: You sound very concerned

NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

NASCAR only reacts to blood.  Maybe this drew enough blood for them to finally spend some damn money testing and developing fencing that can actually stop their cars.


The car itself didn't make it into the stands...
 
2013-02-23 11:07:08 PM  
Need Another Seven Crazy-Assed Rednecks?
 
2013-02-23 11:07:54 PM  
RandomRandom NASCAR's been dancing with this particular train for decades.  Anyone closely following the sport knew a car was going into the stands, it was just a matter of time.

The restrictor plates were meant to prevent that-yet now everybody gets caught in a giant pack or 'lovebugs' which only GUARANTEES something bad will happen...
 
2013-02-23 11:08:56 PM  

mjones73: The car itself didn't make it into the stands...


That's true.

Which might be the rationale NASCAR points to when they do... nothing.
 
2013-02-23 11:10:59 PM  
media.skateboard.com.au
 
2013-02-23 11:11:08 PM  

draa: mjones73: From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.

In the case of the wheel assembly that went into the stands it still had the upper and lower control arms as well as the spindle and hub, brake rotor, and the caliper attached. Probably about 140-150 lbs total weight. It looks as if it broke two upper control arm mounting bolts and the single lower one which is about the only thing holding that grouping in place.

/suspension mechanic


Sorry I missed that in most of the pics I saw, finally found a good shot.

sav-cdn.com
 
2013-02-23 11:12:57 PM  

RandomRandom: mjones73: The car itself didn't make it into the stands...

That's true.

Which might be the rationale NASCAR points to when they do... nothing.


I expect them to do something, there's only so much you can do with fencing and still have the crowd be able to see through it though..
 
2013-02-23 11:22:48 PM  
What's this whole deal with people wanting to blame a particular driver for this?  Everyone out there, drivers and fans alike, are equally to blame (except perhaps the kids, like the one in critical condition - you could argue they don't know any better).

Races are fast.  Races are entertaining because they're fast.  They're entertaining because with speed comes danger - it's the same thing that makes a roller coaster entertaining, the perception of danger.  You put yourself in dangerous positions for entertainment, even if it's only a slim chance of bad stuff happening to you, then you get what's coming to you.  Bad luck, sorry bro, you just got a tire to the face.  My condolences.

I don't have a problem with these races.  I'm not a fan, but in a way, I like them.  Danger is cool and fun.  I just wish people wouldn't point fingers and try to assign blame.  Shiat happens; get a helmet.  If you can't take the heat, get out...  oh well, you know.
 
2013-02-23 11:23:30 PM  

draa: mjones73: From what I heard tonight, they do cable the suspension, looking at that rim, it does look like it ripped off the hub.

In the case of the wheel assembly that went into the stands it still had the upper and lower control arms as well as the spindle and hub, brake rotor, and the caliper attached. Probably about 140-150 lbs total weight. It looks as if it broke two upper control arm mounting bolts and the single lower one which is about the only thing holding that grouping in place.

/suspension mechanic


My bad, looking at what they use in the Nationwide Series it seem that there are two lower control arm bolts instead of one and the radius arm setup I was thinking about. So either a.) the lower control arm ripped apart at the lower ball joint and brace or b.) the video I was seeing didn't show but one mounting point still on the assembly in the stands due to the angle it was being shot. But I certainly remember seeing only one mounting point in the vid and thinking Wow so I'm going with (a). Either way, the entire assembly coming off intact it's something I've only seen a couple of times in 30 years of doing suspension work. And that includes work on a GT car that that I did years ago. The worst feeling in the world is watching a car you worked on on Wednesday sitting in a heap on the track Saturday night and wondering if it was your fault(it wasn't).
 
2013-02-23 11:25:27 PM  
UNAUTHORIZED FINGER:
[www.sftv.com.au image 499x266]

"Transparent aluminum?  So. Is it worth something ta ya...or should I just...punch up clear?"


Why did it have to be transparent?  Were they worried about forgetting there was a whale in the tank if they couldn't see it?
 
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