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(MIT) NewsFlash MIT advising people to "shelter in place" after reports of a person with a long rifle and body armor on campus (UPDATE: report "unfounded")   (emergency.mit.net) divider line 291
    More: NewsFlash, shelter in place, MIT, long rifle, Cambridge Police  
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7103 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2013 at 10:12 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Archived thread
 
2013-02-23 10:14:40 AM  
This is why people try to take away our nice things.
 
2013-02-23 10:14:41 AM  
chaching
 
2013-02-23 10:14:53 AM  
If only nerds carried guns like responsible adults this wouldn't be an issue.
 
2013-02-23 10:15:06 AM  
Sheldon finally pushed Howard over the edge...
 
2013-02-23 10:15:19 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-23 10:15:25 AM  
Slow news day?
 
2013-02-23 10:15:44 AM  
That's it, I'm building a bunker.

/bunkers can have the internet, right
 
2013-02-23 10:16:03 AM  
Release the battlebot army. You know they have one.
 
2013-02-23 10:16:05 AM  
Here's hoping it's just a dude with an umbrella or something similarly lame.
 
2013-02-23 10:16:06 AM  
USA! USA!
 
2013-02-23 10:16:21 AM  
LARPer sighting?
 
2013-02-23 10:16:31 AM  
My bet is it turns out to be a person with a walking stick and a puffy insulated vest.
 
2013-02-23 10:16:34 AM  
Those wacky MIT pranksters...
 
2013-02-23 10:16:36 AM  
It is Massachussetts. More than likely it is someone carrying a broom handle wearing a flyfishing vest.
 
2013-02-23 10:16:37 AM  
"A gun-free zone?"

How's that workin' for ya, MIT?
 
2013-02-23 10:16:41 AM  

lilplatinum: If only nerds carried guns like responsible adults this wouldn't be an issue.


Body armor.
 
2013-02-23 10:16:49 AM  
At MIT, the kid likely built all of it himself.
 
2013-02-23 10:17:12 AM  
netwrok.us
 
2013-02-23 10:17:26 AM  
not this shiat again.
 
2013-02-23 10:17:35 AM  
Sigh
 
2013-02-23 10:18:28 AM  
Now is not the time to have a discussion about gun control.
 
2013-02-23 10:18:35 AM  
@BreakingNews  Cambridge, Mass., police search building where gunman is reported on MIT campus with negative results - @CambridgePolice
 
2013-02-23 10:18:42 AM  
www.studiohowell.com
 
2013-02-23 10:18:57 AM  
None of the news channels seem to be carrying this. CNN is still prattelling on about bodies in water tanks.
 
2013-02-23 10:19:00 AM  
Is it a bad guy on a homicidal rampage or a NRA-certified good guy on a homicidal rampage?
 
GBB
2013-02-23 10:19:20 AM  

lenfromak: At MIT, the kid likely built 3D printed all of it himself.

 
2013-02-23 10:19:34 AM  
Time to roll back the sign?  We were doing so well.
 
2013-02-23 10:19:42 AM  
Come on, are there no Farkers on the MIT campus?
 
2013-02-23 10:19:57 AM  
cdn.head-fi.org
 
2013-02-23 10:20:20 AM  
Uh oh, someone 3D printed a gun at the Media Lab.
 
2013-02-23 10:20:35 AM  
instant news hero? check.  soon to hear about some person that everyone knows has mental issues? check.  everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.
 
2013-02-23 10:20:54 AM  
You know what defeats standard body armor?

www.aimsurplus.com
 
2013-02-23 10:20:57 AM  
I bet it's gonna be categorized as an assault musket.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-23 10:21:01 AM  
According to campus lore MIT campus police can actually shoot and hit their target, unlike city cops. Colleges are otherwise gun free zones in Massachusetts, absent permission from the chief of campus police and (last I heard) the chief would not give permission to anybody.
 
2013-02-23 10:21:05 AM  
The thing is, that "Main group building" is a farking huge complex of buildings that holds basically 70-80% of the academic facilities (classrooms, department headquarters, etc.) on campus.    It's going to take forever to search that thing.

It's also *completely open.*  Anyone can get in at any time.  I was strolling through the hallways at 1 am a couple of years ago (I'm an alum) and saw a homeless dude sleeping right out side the registrar's office.

My guess is that, if they find a gunman, that might change.
 
2013-02-23 10:21:09 AM  
www.whitehousehistory.org

Sheltering in place ...
 
2013-02-23 10:21:26 AM  
So.... Real gun or shovel?
 
2013-02-23 10:21:41 AM  
Hopefully just a nerd on his way to Bi-mon-sci-fi-con.
 
2013-02-23 10:22:03 AM  

BlippityBleep: everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.


What do you mean "everybody?"

NYS just put in place a gun law that strengthens mental health reporting.

lulz indeed. I love my state.
 
2013-02-23 10:22:17 AM  

gadian: Time to roll back the sign?  We were doing so well.


All we know is that he's been a responsible gun owner for many, many years.

/Hope it turns out to be an umbrella and puffy jacket
 
2013-02-23 10:22:22 AM  
I was looking to see if I could hear anything on the scanner and I got distracted and amused by their accents.

"I'm gonna be cleaah"
 
2013-02-23 10:22:34 AM  
It's not even real.
 
2013-02-23 10:22:40 AM  

WorkingInParadise: Hopefully just a nerd on his way to Bi-mon-sci-fi-con.


That would be so embarrassing.
 
2013-02-23 10:23:01 AM  

lenfromak: At MIT, the kid likely built all of it himself.


I don't know.  Those kids seem more likely to build dirty bombs or thermonuclear devices when they snap.  They seem a little too smart to be part of the point and shoot bullets crowd.
 
2013-02-23 10:23:12 AM  

nekom: Here's hoping it's just a dude with an umbrella or something similarly lame.


MIT is in the United States. Those buffoons don't carry umbrellas. They just shoot the raindrops out of the sky.

Yee-Haw!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-23 10:23:50 AM  
It's also *completely open.* Anyone can get in at any time.

They lock some of the perimeter doors nights and weekends. Not a serious obstacle, but if you're a random criminal wandering down Ames Street you'll find the obvious doors locked.
 
2013-02-23 10:24:09 AM  
I bet it's an AK-47.
 
2013-02-23 10:24:27 AM  
Even though police haven't found anything, a lone cameraman may have caught something in his lense....

z.about.com

/is that an "Assault Rifle" strapped to his back?
 
2013-02-23 10:25:37 AM  
There's a logo for articles submitted from MIT?
 
2013-02-23 10:25:53 AM  
 
x23
2013-02-23 10:26:44 AM  
good job. now more reasons to take away long guns. GD it.

i'm a pretty super libby lib (by the standards in place these days)... but own some pretty crazy guns. "assault" guns even.

yet i support gun control.

i just know a thing like this can't be good...
 
2013-02-23 10:26:47 AM  

CygnusDarius: lilplatinum: If only nerds carried guns like responsible adults this wouldn't be an issue.

Body armor.


BOOM!  HEADSHOT!
 
2013-02-23 10:26:57 AM  
caperfrasers.files.wordpress.com
Hi, guys. I'm late for practise. Where's the arena?
 
2013-02-23 10:27:15 AM  

WhippingBoy: nekom: Here's hoping it's just a dude with an umbrella or something similarly lame.

MIT is in the United States. Those buffoons don't carry umbrellas. They just shoot the raindrops out of the sky.

Yee-Haw!


I read that in MC Hawking's 'voice'...
 
2013-02-23 10:27:50 AM  
nerds have too much power. we need to cull them

POWAR TO TEH JOCKS!!!
 
2013-02-23 10:27:52 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: BlippityBleep: everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.

What do you mean "everybody?"

NYS just put in place a gun law that strengthens mental health reporting.

lulz indeed. I love my state.


HAHAHAHA i'm sure it does wonders to help those with mental issues.  it doesn't have more to do with disarming the populace at all.  LULZ.
 
2013-02-23 10:28:44 AM  
According to police: Scene is clear. Call unfounded. No threat to public safety
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-23 10:28:50 AM  
swamp_of_dumb

CP won't let you carry around campus, but they're OK with shooting sports. If I recall correctly pistol was an option for the physical education requirement.
 
2013-02-23 10:28:56 AM  
i623.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-23 10:29:16 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: Even though police haven't found anything, a lone cameraman may have caught something in his lense....

[z.about.com image 400x573]

/is that an "Assault Rifle" strapped to his back?


Wookies don't carry assault rifles, they carry bandoliers.
 
2013-02-23 10:29:23 AM  

e4rlgrey: According to police: Scene is clear. Call unfounded. No threat to public safety


Someone asked to fetch another shovel?
 
2013-02-23 10:30:12 AM  
Supposedly Lanza wore a fishing vest........sideshow bob wore a dirt bike chest protector type thing....


I'm guessing North Pole ski jacket thing time around...
 
2013-02-23 10:30:14 AM  

Nogale: Come on, are there no Farkers on the MIT campus?


They're to busy keeping the Man at bay.
 
2013-02-23 10:30:24 AM  

potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]


Define "standard". Most soft vests can be defeated by any rifle. Most plates can stop those. There's only a tiny steel tip.
 
GBB
2013-02-23 10:30:26 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: BlippityBleep: everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.

What do you mean "everybody?"

NYS just put in place a gun law that strengthens mental health reporting.

lulz indeed. I love my state.


Meaning what?  Do they check on you everyday after you purchase a gun to make sure you haven't gone full derp?  Cause that's what's happening.  People buy when they can pass these checks, then wait until the voices become over powering.   Not the other way round.
 
2013-02-23 10:31:14 AM  

e4rlgrey: According to police: Scene is clear. Call unfounded. No threat to public safety


MWAG: it's the new bomb threat.
 
2013-02-23 10:31:43 AM  

WorkingInParadise: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: Even though police haven't found anything, a lone cameraman may have caught something in his lense....

[z.about.com image 400x573]

/is that an "Assault Rifle" strapped to his back?

Wookies don't carry assault rifles, they carry bandoliers.


Fail. Turn in your nerd badge, tourist.

Hint: The word you're looking for is "Bowcaster".
 
2013-02-23 10:31:48 AM  

Vodka Zombie: lenfromak: At MIT, the kid likely built all of it himself.

I don't know.  Those kids seem more likely to build dirty bombs or thermonuclear devices when they snap.  They seem a little too smart to be part of the point and shoot bullets crowd.



It's a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
 
2013-02-23 10:32:03 AM  

potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]


And this is precisely why the argument that more guns equals less gun violence breaks down. If everyone is armed, mass shooters will start wearing body armor (oh, wait, that has already started happening...), so everyone will want to carry armor piercing rounds, which will lead to more adaptation and escalation of armor and weapons, until we're all running around with rocket launchers mounted on our armor plated personnel carriers.
 
2013-02-23 10:32:18 AM  
We need to ban telephones.  Clearly, some phone-nut went crazy and called in a threat when none existed.  Phones now-a-days are powerful.  They're fully autodial, with the ability to conference call by voice command.  That's too much phone.

/Seriously though, handguns do all the killing in the U.S.S.A.  Why all the talk about rifles?
 
2013-02-23 10:32:38 AM  

Mart Laar's beard shaver: "A gun-free zone?"

How's that workin' for ya, MIT?


Law only defines an undesireable act, it doesn't prevent it.  I bet you think a bed alarm actually prevents a patient from getting out of bed too.
 
2013-02-23 10:32:48 AM  
What do you expect at a trade school?
 
2013-02-23 10:33:01 AM  

e4rlgrey: According to police: Scene is clear. Call unfounded. No threat to public safety


MORE LEGISLATION ANYWAY!

WorkingInParadise: Wookies don't carry assault rifles, they carry bandoliers.


Bowcasters too.
 
2013-02-23 10:33:13 AM  
Campus police gave the all clear, according to CNN.
 
2013-02-23 10:33:25 AM  

e4rlgrey: According to police: Scene is clear. Call unfounded. No threat to public safety


Now they'll want to pass laws against invisibility cloaks.
 
2013-02-23 10:33:58 AM  
God. Guns. Guts.

Murica yeah!
 
2013-02-23 10:34:01 AM  
So.... some LARPer is wandering around MIT?
 
2013-02-23 10:34:04 AM  
12 seconds!

/shakes tiny fist
 
2013-02-23 10:35:06 AM  

misanthropologist: oh, wait, that has already started happening...)


Ant police reports as a citation or only media sensationalism?
 
2013-02-23 10:35:39 AM  

Glancing Blow: What do you expect at a trade school?


A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
2013-02-23 10:36:25 AM  

misanthropologist: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

And this is precisely why the argument that more guns equals less gun violence breaks down. If everyone is armed, mass shooters will start wearing body armor (oh, wait, that has already started happening...), so everyone will want to carry armor piercing rounds, which will lead to more adaptation and escalation of armor and weapons, until we're all running around with rocket launchers mounted on our armor plated personnel carriers.


And this is why the argument for more gun control breaks down. Gun ownership has been steadily rising, and crime overall (including gun deaths) has bee steadily decreasing.
 
2013-02-23 10:36:46 AM  

Godscrack: God. Guns. Guts.

Murica yeah!


No mention of god, the gun claim is so far unfounded, guts?  Fo-ruh-ners...  Wahoo!
 
2013-02-23 10:37:10 AM  
 
2013-02-23 10:37:39 AM  

potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]



That is anywhere from a 2 to 4 MOA round. What you want is more like this:
www.snipercentral.com
 
2013-02-23 10:38:16 AM  
This is going to turn out to be an asian woman with a field hockey stick.
 
2013-02-23 10:38:47 AM  

GBB: People buy when they can pass these checks, then wait until the voices become over powering. Not the other way round.


You are clearly an authority on mental illness.
 
2013-02-23 10:38:58 AM  
who the hell is awake on a college campus at 10 in the morning on a saturday anyways?
 
2013-02-23 10:39:37 AM  

lilplatinum: If only nerds carried guns like responsible adults this wouldn't be an issue.


You'd be shocked at the convergence of nerdity and gun ownership.
 
2013-02-23 10:39:47 AM  
Keep windows and window blinds shut. If advised, also cover and duct tape air vents, and turn off all the air handling equipment (heating, ventilation, and/or air conditioning) that you can control.

Ahahaha. FEAR CITIZEN
 
2013-02-23 10:40:17 AM  

nekom: Here's hoping it's just a dude with an umbrella or something similarly lame.


Like the kid with the tactical shovel from a fark thread the other day.
 
2013-02-23 10:41:05 AM  

tgambitg: misanthropologist: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

And this is precisely why the argument that more guns equals less gun violence breaks down. If everyone is armed, mass shooters will start wearing body armor (oh, wait, that has already started happening...), so everyone will want to carry armor piercing rounds, which will lead to more adaptation and escalation of armor and weapons, until we're all running around with rocket launchers mounted on our armor plated personnel carriers.

And this is why the argument for more gun control breaks down. Gun ownership has been steadily rising, and crime overall (including gun deaths) has bee steadily decreasing.


I should also clarify, it's not SOLELY the guns providing the reduction in crime, I think society is shifting into having less crime... BUT, the guns are not causing more crime like some people who call for gun control would have you believe.
 
2013-02-23 10:41:23 AM  
nekom: Here's hoping it's just a dude with an umbrella or something similarly lame.


www.whoateallthepies.tv

Nappy.
 
2013-02-23 10:41:51 AM  
I CAN'T WAIT TO BLOW UP THE WRONG KID'S FACEBOOK!
 
2013-02-23 10:42:18 AM  
2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting
 
2013-02-23 10:42:18 AM  

syrynxx: GBB: People buy when they can pass these checks, then wait until the voices become over powering. Not the other way round.

You are clearly an authority on mental illness.


He's just passing on what the voices told him.
 
2013-02-23 10:43:23 AM  
wait wait wait....

MIT?

Weapons and Body armor?

Guys, it's just Gordon Freeman visiting his Ala Mater! Nothing to worry about =)
 
2013-02-23 10:43:25 AM  
MIT? Well at least we know no Americans will be harmed.
 
2013-02-23 10:43:32 AM  
I'm getting tired of all these mass hammerings.
 
2013-02-23 10:43:53 AM  

TigersorHawksorBoth: [i623.photobucket.com image 400x738]


Just so your trolltastic ass is aware, I auto (or is that semi-auto) ignore any effwit that posts that journalist thing.

Gun nut on sight, get out of mine.
 
2013-02-23 10:44:09 AM  
It was probably a woman and the caller was confused when he saw breasts and a purse.
 
2013-02-23 10:44:12 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting


How many murders?
 
2013-02-23 10:44:12 AM  

Chinchillazilla: That's it, I'm building a bunker.

/bunkers can have the internet, right


Because a guy somewhere is committing a crime? Skittish much?
 
2013-02-23 10:44:56 AM  

thisiszombocom: who the hell is awake on a college campus at 10 in the morning on a saturday anyways?


Nerds.
 
2013-02-23 10:44:57 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting


And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?
 
2013-02-23 10:45:05 AM  
Somebody had a test they didn't study for?
 
2013-02-23 10:45:20 AM  

retarded: Now is not the time to have a discussion about gun control.


Discuss it all you want. Just stop giving retarded solutions.
 
2013-02-23 10:45:23 AM  
STOP. It's Saturday. Why would someone wanting to cause harm and panic do it at a school on Saturday???

Cole got to be...a false alarm.
 
2013-02-23 10:46:12 AM  
There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.
 
2013-02-23 10:46:44 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: MIT? Well at least we know no Americans will be harmed.


Now that's funny!
 
2013-02-23 10:47:14 AM  

Rozinante: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

Define "standard". Most soft vests can be defeated by any rifle. Most plates can stop those. There's only a tiny steel tip.




Well, if you want to stick to 5.56 and have penetration, even through body armor, go with "barrier blind" ammo.
 
2013-02-23 10:47:43 AM  
must be a plasma rifle or gay laser rifle.
 
2013-02-23 10:47:49 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: Even though police haven't found anything, a lone cameraman may have caught something in his lense....

[z.about.com image 400x573]

/is that an "Assault Rifle" strapped to his back?


Jebus. That is SO a costume.
 
2013-02-23 10:48:01 AM  

sethen320: retarded: Now is not the time to have a discussion about gun control.

Discuss it all you want. Just stop giving retarded solutions.


Any solution is a retarded solution to gun nuts. They just want to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.
 
2013-02-23 10:48:13 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting



♫ Gun control to Major Tom...
Gun control to Major Tom...
Take your Xanax pill and put your Depends on....♫
 
2013-02-23 10:49:08 AM  

irgunner: Slow news day?


Must not be a Christian.. WWJD?
 
2013-02-23 10:49:23 AM  
So is this a story, or not? I see no mention of it anywheres else.
 
2013-02-23 10:50:03 AM  

Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?


Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.
 
2013-02-23 10:51:03 AM  

Generation_D: Just so your trolltastic ass is aware, I auto (or is that semi-auto) ignore any effwit that posts that journalist thing.


media.tumblr.com
Nobody cares who you ignore. Just do it quietly.
 
2013-02-23 10:51:14 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: irgunner: Slow news day?

Must not be a Christian.. WWJD?


what does Crisptianity have to do with nething?
eat more Church's

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-23 10:51:30 AM  
Probably some shmuck on his way to fencing class.

Went looking for goofy pic of dude in fencing garb
Found this instead

Not really fencing related, definatly MIT material, probably one of their better students

i877.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-23 10:51:41 AM  

Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.


By 'way up' how many victims are we talking about?  100?  200? Out of how many guns?  250M or something?
 
2013-02-23 10:51:44 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Any solution is a retarded solution to gun nuts. They just want to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.


That's not completely fair. They actually are trying.
 
2013-02-23 10:52:08 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.


So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?
 
2013-02-23 10:52:20 AM  

clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?


Were they done with a gun or not?
 
2013-02-23 10:53:11 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?


So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?
 
gja
2013-02-23 10:53:50 AM  

Amos Quito: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting


♫ Gun control to Major Tom...
Gun control to Major Tom...
Take your Xanax pill and put your Depends on....♫


LOL!!!!
 
2013-02-23 10:54:07 AM  

DeCypher44: STOP. It's Saturday. Why would someone wanting to cause harm and panic do it at a school on Saturday???

Cole got to be...a false alarm.


if there is a culprit, he obviously has no class.
 
2013-02-23 10:54:13 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?

So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?


So you're saying blueberry muffins contain more fiber than bran? Good to know, thanks.
 
2013-02-23 10:54:18 AM  

Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.



The rate of incident remains pretty steady. The thing that varies greatly is the number of victims.

Handguns are used in more mass shootings than rifles.
 
2013-02-23 10:54:29 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?


You are on the wrong website to be throwing around Jesus like that...
 
2013-02-23 10:54:31 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?

So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?


Why are you anti-choice? Free will, dude.
 
2013-02-23 10:54:31 AM  
If you are truly Pro Life, you are NOT pro-gun.
 
2013-02-23 10:54:35 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?

So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?


your espouse is jesus?

your married to that fruitcake
what has he ever done
besides turn liquor into breakfast fuel
 
2013-02-23 10:55:39 AM  

tgambitg: tgambitg: misanthropologist: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

And this is precisely why the argument that more guns equals less gun violence breaks down. If everyone is armed, mass shooters will start wearing body armor (oh, wait, that has already started happening...), so everyone will want to carry armor piercing rounds, which will lead to more adaptation and escalation of armor and weapons, until we're all running around with rocket launchers mounted on our armor plated personnel carriers.

And this is why the argument for more gun control breaks down. Gun ownership has been steadily rising, and crime overall (including gun deaths) has bee steadily decreasing.

I should also clarify, it's not SOLELY the guns providing the reduction in crime, I think society is shifting into having less crime... BUT, the guns are not causing more crime like some people who call for gun control would have you believe.


Fair enough. Two complications though. First, one of the trends driving increased gun ownership is the marketing approach that frames guns as home and personal security systems. If crime is decreasing, why do people need more guns to protect themselves from violent criminals? Second, just because crime has decreased over the past 10-15 years, does not mean that it will continue to decrease. Social systems often move in cycles, and any number of factors coming together (high unemployment and poverty, for example) can lead to increases in crime rates. Look at the social contexts where most gun violence is happening in the US today - poor, marginalized communities where unemployment is high and criminal activity (including gangs) constitute a viable option for making ends meet.

Just because right now more guns does not equal more gun violence (apparently, although I'd still like to see reliable data on that), does not mean that will remain the case. Widespread availability of weapons in a context of widespread hardship and turmoil will likely mean much higher rates of gun violence. If an economic collapse or other major social disturbance happens, the survivalists and guns-for-protection people may get to live out a self-fulfilling prophecy... not because the government is coming to take away their guns, but because guns will be everywhere and people will have reasons to start using them.
 
2013-02-23 10:55:39 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Generation_D: Just so your trolltastic ass is aware, I auto (or is that semi-auto) ignore any effwit that posts that journalist thing.


Nobody cares who you ignore. Just do it quietly.


But if he does it quietly he doesn't get the same AW effect he craves.
 
2013-02-23 10:55:40 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.



You didn't answer the question but instead went for maximum deflection.
 
2013-02-23 10:55:40 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are truly Pro Life, you are NOT pro-gun.


TROLLOLOLOLOLOL
 
2013-02-23 10:55:44 AM  
Maybe the NRA propaganda van should race to the scene - complete with a roof-mounted T-shirt cannon?
 
2013-02-23 10:55:58 AM  
 potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

And this is precisely why the argument that more guns equals less gun violence breaks down. If everyone is armed, mass shooters will start wearing body armor (oh, wait, that has already started happening...), so everyone will want to carry armor piercing rounds, which will lead to more adaptation and escalation of armor and weapons, until we're all running around with rocket launchers mounted on our armor plated personnel carriers.


Fap?
 
2013-02-23 10:55:59 AM  
Time for Obama to take away all the guns.
 
2013-02-23 10:56:14 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?

So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?


Jesus wasn't real.... people who want to kill themselves usually find a way.

Try being honest.
 
2013-02-23 10:56:15 AM  
All clear given on the website and no explanation given. Story over i guess.
 
2013-02-23 10:56:49 AM  
My first thought: Maybe there's an anime convention or comic convention or something going on?

My other thought is: EVERYONE PANIC!  CUZ THESE REPORTS ARE ALWAYS TRUE!
 
2013-02-23 10:56:50 AM  

T-Boy: Is it a bad guy on a homicidal rampage or a NRA-certified good guy on a homicidal rampage?


LOL. +1
 
2013-02-23 10:56:59 AM  
If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun. Didn't Jesus say unto you that if you would just believe in Him that you would always be safe? Did He not say to lay down your swords (guns)?
 
2013-02-23 10:57:03 AM  
inb4 guy in HALO costume
 
2013-02-23 10:57:18 AM  

Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob teenager or college studentattacking with assault weapons

.22 rifles with cool styling is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs. if people would realize that we already have laws against shooting other people and instead support legislation to get dangerously mentally ill teenagers into treatment facilities where they can't just walk out 24 hours later.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.
 
2013-02-23 10:57:36 AM  

BlippityBleep: instant news hero? check.  soon to hear about some person that everyone knows has mental issues? check.  everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.


Hey, when the GOP stops trying to defund any and all mental health funding and allows the reporting of people diagnosed as "a danger to self and others" to the federal databases, then your point would have some merit.  Until then, its a bunch of crap.
 
2013-02-23 10:58:57 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun. Didn't Jesus say unto you that if you would just believe in Him that you would always be safe? Did He not say to lay down your swords (guns)?


I'm Muslim. My god says to kill everyone who doesn't agree with me.

NOW WHAT BIATCH?

COME AT ME INFIDEL!
 
2013-02-23 10:59:18 AM  

clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?


I'm guessing you got this from the Slate site.  Like any other special interest site, it's going to be a bit biased, especially in its data collection. They are actively looking for submissions for people who died in a shooting- whether it be death by cop, accidental, self inflicted, in the commision of a crime, or what ever-- so they can add a another hash mark.

One could easily start a site in which the submitter is harrassed by gay people or the neighbor's pitbull attacked them.  Just pick a cause and ask for submissions, and don't forget to leave out the details that don't support your cause.
 
2013-02-23 10:59:26 AM  

Generation_D: Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.


[citation needed]

It seems that the number of mass shootings (defined as "gun homicides where at least 4 people were murdered") has been roughly constant since 1980. There's been some year-to-year variation but overall the trend is flat.
 
2013-02-23 10:59:29 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?

So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?

Jesus wasn't real.... people who want to kill themselves usually find a way.

Try being honest.


i.imgur.com

"Death, uh...finds a way."
 
2013-02-23 11:00:04 AM  
This is why you don't go to school on Saturday
 
2013-02-23 11:00:23 AM  
All clear.
 
2013-02-23 11:00:28 AM  

browser_snake: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob teenager or college studentattacking with assault weapons.22 rifles with cool styling is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs. if people would realize that we already have laws against shooting other people and instead support legislation to get dangerously mentally ill teenagers into treatment facilities where they can't just walk out 24 hours later.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.


Yeah, but they're, you know, armed.
 
2013-02-23 11:00:43 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun. Didn't Jesus say unto you that if you would just believe in Him that you would always be safe? Did He not say to lay down your swords (guns)?


You are posting on fark
 
2013-02-23 11:01:53 AM  
Okay, not to interrupt the gun flame war, but no evidence was found that it even happened.  So I guess it's back to the lab for those MIT students.
 
2013-02-23 11:02:23 AM  

clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?


Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.
 
2013-02-23 11:02:29 AM  

zakke: [www.studiohowell.com image 576x691]


THIS. Almost certainly this.
 
2013-02-23 11:02:56 AM  
Threat  downgraded from active shooter to impolite society
 
2013-02-23 11:03:05 AM  
It's a false alarm. They gave the all clear.
 
2013-02-23 11:03:09 AM  
So I see that an all-clear was issued at 10:45 (about one hour and fifteen minutes after the original alert). When do we find out whether it was a false alarm?
 
2013-02-23 11:04:01 AM  
Wow. Missed a simulpost by four seconds.
 
2013-02-23 11:05:07 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun.

hour children are learning not English good?

 
2013-02-23 11:05:10 AM  
You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?
 
2013-02-23 11:05:15 AM  

browser_snake: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob teenager or college studentattacking with assault weapons.22 rifles with cool styling is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs. if people would realize that we already have laws against shooting other people and instead support legislation to get dangerously mentally ill teenagers into treatment facilities where they can't just walk out 24 hours later.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.


There are more guns than people in the US (the traceable guns).   Even if you were five to one, all it would take is another magazine to continue...
Hippies: ya don't have to lead 'em as much as you would a moose.
 
2013-02-23 11:05:29 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are truly Pro Life, you are NOT pro-gun.


Really?  Because one of the biggest Pro-Life organizations in the world even allows for violence, yes, even gun violence, if the situation warrants it.

Bellum iustum:

Jus ad bellum:
-Just Cause
-Right Intention
-Last Resort
-Significant Probability of Success
-Proportionality

Jus in bello
-Discrimination
-Proportionality

/I'll let you do the research, if you have questions
//I've already taken plenty of classes on it
 
2013-02-23 11:05:44 AM  

misanthropologist: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

And this is precisely why the argument that more guns equals less gun violence breaks down. If everyone is armed, mass shooters will start wearing body armor (oh, wait, that has already started happening...), so everyone will want to carry armor piercing rounds, which will lead to more adaptation and escalation of armor and weapons, until we're all running around with rocket launchers mounted on our armor plated personnel carriers.


Regular old rifle cartridge FMJ goes through standard kevlar vests. You need ceramic plate to stop it, and even that will only stop the first one or two rounds. Kevlar is only good for pistol rounds.
 
2013-02-23 11:05:56 AM  

iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?



If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.
 
2013-02-23 11:06:09 AM  

Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun. Didn't Jesus say unto you that if you would just believe in Him that you would always be safe? Did He not say to lay down your swords (guns)?

I'm Muslim. My god says to kill everyone who doesn't agree with me.

NOW WHAT BIATCH?

COME AT ME INFIDEL!


no your not, your a trolololol
 
2013-02-23 11:06:11 AM  

iaazathot: BlippityBleep: instant news hero? check.  soon to hear about some person that everyone knows has mental issues? check.  everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.

Hey, when the GOP stops trying to defund any and all mental health funding and allows the reporting of people diagnosed as "a danger to self and others" to the federal databases, then your point would have some merit.  Until then, its a bunch of crap.


erm, i'm a very liberal person and i'm support mental health funding completely.  as long as the focus is on helping people and not just the 'piss in public and your a sex offender' type of asshattery.
 
2013-02-23 11:08:28 AM  

clowncar on fire: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

I'm guessing you got this from the Slate site.  Like any other special interest site, it's going to be a bit biased, especially in its data collection. They are actively looking for submissions for people who died in a shooting- whether it be death by cop, accidental, self inflicted, in the commision of a crime, or what ever-- so they can add a another hash mark.

One could easily start a site in which the submitter is harrassed by gay people or the neighbor's pitbull attacked them.  Just pick a cause and ask for submissions, and don't forget to leave out the details that don't support your cause.


How is collecting data biased? The Slate site is counting how many people die by guns. That's just an empirical fact. The bias really only comes in when people start interpreting and using empirical evidence. For example, the way you've tried to parse the information - separating out murders from accidents, suicides, police use of force - can be a biased interpretation because you seem to be arguing that only murders should be considered significant gun deaths. The gun issue is much broader than murder, even if it is the mass shootings of innocent people (most exemplified in the Newtown shooting) that captures the public imagination. Gun murders are a problem. So are gun suicides. So are accidental gun deaths. So are police shootings. America needs a response that addresses all of these aspects of the problem, not one that narrowly focuses on mass shootings or even individual murders, while ignoring the suicides, accidents, and excessive use of force that guns allow.
 
2013-02-23 11:12:47 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun. Didn't Jesus say unto you that if you would just believe in Him that you would always be safe? Did He not say to lay down your swords (guns)?

I'm Muslim. My god says to kill everyone who doesn't agree with me.

NOW WHAT BIATCH?

COME AT ME INFIDEL!

no your not, your a trolololol


Troll is such a harsh word I prefer the term sans alt
 
2013-02-23 11:13:08 AM  

Rufus Lee King: Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are Christian than you shouldn't need a gun. Didn't Jesus say unto you that if you would just believe in Him that you would always be safe? Did He not say to lay down your swords (guns)?

Down by the riverside?

DOOOOWN BY THE RIV-AAAAAHHHH.... 

[www.hewlett.org image 430x227]

FTFY,  it is Boston after all.
 
2013-02-23 11:13:09 AM  

Uisce Beatha: Rozinante: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

Define "standard". Most soft vests can be defeated by any rifle. Most plates can stop those. There's only a tiny steel tip.

Well, if you want to stick to 5.56 and have penetration, even through body armor, go with "barrier blind" ammo.


That should be even less effective.
 
2013-02-23 11:13:24 AM  
Slate is crowd sourcing their data
 
2013-02-23 11:14:05 AM  
Body armour wearing, rifle-carrying people don't kill people. Their pitbulls do. or something.
 
2013-02-23 11:14:18 AM  

iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?


You'd think people who like sex would support all types of sex, not just the ones that they, personally, like. For example, I like sex with women, but if liking sex with women implies liking all kinds of sex, I'd have to also support people who like to have sex with children, or who like to have sex with animals, or who like to have sex with people against their will. That's the logic you're applying here.

We can make distinctions between activities and values, and we can negotiate and debate which ones are acceptable and which ones are not. We are, after all, humans, and that is what humans do that distinguishes us from other animals. But if we're going to do that well, we need to look at the real effects of various activities and value systems in terms of people's lives, the environment, etc., etc., etc. If we find that an activity or value system has effects that we do not find tolerable, we should try to change those activities or value systems to minimize or stop the intolerable effects all together. We are not bound to accept any and all beliefs and practices as morally or empirically equivalent and valuable just because they exist in the world.
 
2013-02-23 11:14:49 AM  

Rozinante: Uisce Beatha: Rozinante: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

Define "standard". Most soft vests can be defeated by any rifle. Most plates can stop those. There's only a tiny steel tip.

Well, if you want to stick to 5.56 and have penetration, even through body armor, go with "barrier blind" ammo.

That should be even less effective.


It's not.  Not by a long shot.  My old job ran the testing for it.  Body Armor, even with plates, means very little to SOST ammo.
 
2013-02-23 11:16:00 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data


I wonder why they have to resort to doing that?
 
2013-02-23 11:17:12 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data


Is that a bad thing?
 
2013-02-23 11:17:19 AM  
TFA says the all clear has been sounded.  Good.
 
2013-02-23 11:17:36 AM  

misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.


Bubble wrap laws- welcome to the Nanny States of America where primary govermental function is to enact law to protect us from ourselves.  Oh, and let's not look into too many issues where the individual citizen may have to recognize they have only themselves to blame and that maybe, all the government intrusion in the world is not going to fix.  You know, cause it's always someone elses fault.
 
2013-02-23 11:18:19 AM  

misanthropologist: How is collecting data biased?


Reality has a liberal bias.
 
2013-02-23 11:18:52 AM  
Guns allow small powerless people to defend themselves from big angry people.  It is an equalizer.
 
2013-02-23 11:19:54 AM  

clowncar on fire: misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.

Bubble wrap laws- welcome to the Nanny States of America where primary govermental function is to enact law to protect us from ourselves.  Oh, and let's not look into too many issues where the individual citizen may have to recognize they have only themselves to blame and that maybe, all the government intrusion in the world is not going to fix.  You know, cause it's always someone elses fault.


Shut up.  It's McDonalds' fault I'm fat.
 
2013-02-23 11:19:56 AM  
LET'S ALL TWIRL TWIRL TWIRL IN PANIC!
 
2013-02-23 11:20:10 AM  

Giltric: iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?


If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.


Indeed; the power to choose or delay your choice is powerful. The right to decide where you stand on any issue; regardless of what anyone else thinks is uniquely American.

/ I feel that it would set a very bad precident to null and void one of the rights mentioned specifically in The Bill of Rights. If one can be null and void; why not another?
 
2013-02-23 11:21:48 AM  

Karma Curmudgeon: Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data

I wonder why they have to resort to doing that?


1)  Because the evil media is in coerts wif the gubmint and only real 'mericans can be relied upon to forward factual information
2)  Because slate is too lazy to dig or the real data just isn't there to support their assertions?
 
2013-02-23 11:22:10 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Benjamin Orr: Princess Ryans Knickers: Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?

Which part of gun death did you not understand? Always amazed at how many claim to be Christian but ignore Christ when it comes to weapons and violence.

So the suicides cut down the numbers too much for you?

So you have no empathy for your fellow man as espoused by Jesus?


Isn't this the same Jesus whose Father told the Jews to completely destroy their enemies, killing every single one of them and demolishing any trace of them?

Just wondering...
 
2013-02-23 11:22:43 AM  

misanthropologist: Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data

Is that a bad thing?


As long as you realize there will be some level of bias involved.

I would not blindly accept crowd sourced data from Fox News either.
 
2013-02-23 11:23:04 AM  

IronTom: Guns allow small powerless people to defend themselves from big angry people.  It is an equalizer.


Makes all persons equal on a vital level.
Wonder why that is so important in our Constitution?

You can steal money, power, property and call yourself a good Republican with the help of a tight gang.
But a 98yo Ggrandmother can toast your cookies in one heartbeat.
Think about it.
 
2013-02-23 11:23:15 AM  
Campus gave the all clear. Resume nerding in place.
 
2013-02-23 11:26:32 AM  
Peace out my brothers.
 
2013-02-23 11:26:39 AM  

Benjamin Orr: misanthropologist: Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data

Is that a bad thing?

As long as you realize there will be some level of bias involved.

I would not blindly accept crowd sourced data from Fox News either.


Explain the bias. I mean, sure, we should look at their method of going from crowd-sourced raw data to compiled and cleaned list of unique gun deaths, but if we're talking about compiling a list of gun deaths, I'm much more inclined to trust a crowd-sourced list compiled by a "liberal" media outlet than a "conservative" one, simply because I think the conservative one has a vested interest in underreporting the number, while the liberal one has a vested interest in accurately reporting the number.
 
2013-02-23 11:26:44 AM  

iheartscotch: Giltric: iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?


If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

Indeed; the power to choose or delay your choice is powerful. The right to decide where you stand on any issue; regardless of what anyone else thinks is uniquely American.

/ I feel that it would set a very bad precident to null and void one of the rights mentioned specifically in The Bill of Rights. If one can be null and void; why not another?


End Women's Suffrage Now !!!!
 
2013-02-23 11:27:21 AM  
Sounds like some university got 'S.W.A.T.ted'.
 
2013-02-23 11:28:30 AM  
My only regret is that we will probably never know what common object was mistaken for a rifle... or what kind of coat resembles body armor.
 
2013-02-23 11:29:11 AM  

clowncar on fire: Karma Curmudgeon: Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data

I wonder why they have to resort to doing that?

1)  Because the evil media is in coerts wif the gubmint and only real 'mericans can be relied upon to forward factual information
2)  Because slate is too lazy to dig or the real data just isn't there to support their assertions?


3) The actual data is maintained by the Justice Department but exempt from the FOIA, cannot be legally released, and the only person who could singly compile all the data from available public sources, i.e. local news, is Sarah Palin and she refuses to help.
 
2013-02-23 11:29:52 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: TFA says the all clear has been sounded.  Good.


nah, he just used a stealth boy.
 
2013-02-23 11:29:52 AM  

T-Boy: Is it a bad guy on a homicidal rampage or a NRA-certified good guy on a homicidal rampage post birth abortion spree?

 for me, fixed it is

 
2013-02-23 11:30:00 AM  

Uisce Beatha: Rozinante: Uisce Beatha: Rozinante: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

Define "standard". Most soft vests can be defeated by any rifle. Most plates can stop those. There's only a tiny steel tip.

Well, if you want to stick to 5.56 and have penetration, even through body armor, go with "barrier blind" ammo.

That should be even less effective.

It's not.  Not by a long shot.  My old job ran the testing for it.  Body Armor, even with plates, means very little to SOST ammo.


Cool. I've held a plate with 5 .30 AP bullets lodged in it. I can't see these doing better, but keeping the point forward counts for a lot.
 
2013-02-23 11:30:36 AM  

IronTom: I bet it's an AK-47.


no, it's a glock ar-47. duh.
 
2013-02-23 11:31:47 AM  

misanthropologist: Benjamin Orr: misanthropologist: Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data

Is that a bad thing?

As long as you realize there will be some level of bias involved.

I would not blindly accept crowd sourced data from Fox News either.

Explain the bias. I mean, sure, we should look at their method of going from crowd-sourced raw data to compiled and cleaned list of unique gun deaths, but if we're talking about compiling a list of gun deaths, I'm much more inclined to trust a crowd-sourced list compiled by a "liberal" media outlet than a "conservative" one, simply because I think the conservative one has a vested interest in underreporting the number, while the liberal one has a vested interest in accurately reporting the number.


lol.. No interest in over reporting at all then? No interest in twisting the facts to suit them? Wow.
 
2013-02-23 11:31:47 AM  

misanthropologist: Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate?


Actually, the answer to that is "yes".  The UK, Canada, and U.S. (as well as other developed nations) have roughly the same suicide rate per capita, even though they have vastly different gun laws and cultures.  Without looking it up again, I think it's about 12 people per 100,000 per year.
 
2013-02-23 11:32:33 AM  

misanthropologist: iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?

You'd think people who like sex would support all types of sex, not just the ones that they, personally, like. For example, I like sex with women, but if liking sex with women implies liking all kinds of sex, I'd have to also support people who like to have sex with children, or who like to have sex with animals, or who like to have sex with people against their will. That's the logic you're applying here.

We can make distinctions between activities and values, and we can negotiate and debate which ones are acceptable and which ones are not. We are, after all, humans, and that is what humans do that distinguishes us from other animals. But if we're going to do that well, we need to look at the real effects of various activities and value systems in terms of people's lives, the environment, etc., etc., etc. If we find that an activity or value system has effects that we do not find tolerable, we should try to change those activities or value systems to minimize or stop the intolerable effects all together. We are not bound to accept any and all beliefs and practices as morally or empirically equivalent and valuable just because they exist in the world.


My my; I was all personal freedomy and you were all sex with turtlesy.

Gun ownership is in The Bill of Rights. I feel that it sets a very bad precident to null and void one of the rights laid down in The Bill of Rights; why not null and void another when it becomes inconvenient?

I know, I know; militia, militia, militia! Gees, jan; a little jealous? All they'd have to do is start a nonpaying state militia; any noncriminal can join for free.
 
2013-02-23 11:35:15 AM  

clowncar on fire: misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.

Bubble wrap laws- welcome to the Nanny States of America where primary govermental function is to enact law to protect us from ourselves.  Oh, and let's not look into too many issues where the individual citizen may have to recognize they have only themselves to blame and that maybe, all the government intrusion in the world is not going to fix.  You know, cause it's always someone elses fault.


So, essentially, you're confirming my interpretation of your desire to separate out suicides and accidental gun deaths from the list of total gun deaths because they're not a real problem? And the risk of accidental gun death or the effectiveness of guns used in suicide attempts is not worth trying to limit because people have a right to die by accident and to effectively kill themselves with the most efficient tools for the job?

So people who attempt suicide are not valuable members of society and should just be allowed, even encouraged, to complete their attempt because seeking ways to limit their access to guns would infringe on their right to kill themselves, and no government has any type of interest or obligation in keeping its citizens alive and thriving?

So things like mandatory, extensive gun safety training and strict regulations about who can use guns in what ways are pointless and intrusive because kids shooting their siblings accidentally with unsecured guns is just the kind of tough lesson that kids and parents should have to learn and take personal responsibility for?
 
2013-02-23 11:35:58 AM  

clowncar on fire: iheartscotch: Giltric: iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?


If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

Indeed; the power to choose or delay your choice is powerful. The right to decide where you stand on any issue; regardless of what anyone else thinks is uniquely American.

/ I feel that it would set a very bad precident to null and void one of the rights mentioned specifically in The Bill of Rights. If one can be null and void; why not another?

End Women's Suffrage Now !!!!


Didn't penn and teller get a couple dozen women to sign a petition of that nature?

Anyway; that isn't what I was saying.
 
2013-02-23 11:36:37 AM  

remus: Isn't this the same Jesus whose Father told the Jews to completely destroy their enemies, killing every single one of them and demolishing any trace of them?

Just wondering...


my dad supported the Iraq War...does this somehow invalidate my personal anti-war beliefs?
 
2013-02-23 11:38:27 AM  

iheartscotch: misanthropologist: iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?

You'd think people who like sex would support all types of sex, not just the ones that they, personally, like. For example, I like sex with women, but if liking sex with women implies liking all kinds of sex, I'd have to also support people who like to have sex with children, or who like to have sex with animals, or who like to have sex with people against their will. That's the logic you're applying here.

We can make distinctions between activities and values, and we can negotiate and debate which ones are acceptable and which ones are not. We are, after all, humans, and that is what humans do that distinguishes us from other animals. But if we're going to do that well, we need to look at the real effects of various activities and value systems in terms of people's lives, the environment, etc., etc., etc. If we find that an activity or value system has effects that we do not find tolerable, we should try to change those activities or value systems to minimize or stop the intolerable effects all together. We are not bound to accept any and all beliefs and practices as morally or empirically equivalent and valuable just because they exist in the world.

My my; I was all personal freedomy and you were all sex with turtlesy.

Gun ownership is in The Bill of Rights. I feel that it sets a very bad precident to null and void one of the rights laid down in The Bill of Rights; why not null and void another when it becomes inconvenient?

I know, I know; militia, militia, militia! Gees, jan; a little jealous? All they'd have to do is start a nonpaying state militia; any noncriminal can join for free.


Just pointing out the flawed logic of "if any X, then all Xs"... and it is flawed logic.
 
2013-02-23 11:39:35 AM  

Uisce Beatha: That is anywhere from a 2 to 4 MOA round. What you want is more like this:


yes yes yes 308 or 762x51 very nice. moving along...
 
2013-02-23 11:48:02 AM  

browser_snake: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob teenager or college studentattacking with assault weapons.22 rifles with cool styling is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs. if people would realize that we already have laws against shooting other people and instead support legislation to get dangerously mentally ill teenagers into treatment facilities where they can't just walk out 24 hours later.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.


Stopped reading after this, because it's the most correct statement this thread could possibly produce. See you all in the daily Kate Upton thread when it goes green
 
2013-02-23 11:49:01 AM  

Rozinante: Uisce Beatha: Rozinante: Uisce Beatha: Rozinante: potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]

Define "standard". Most soft vests can be defeated by any rifle. Most plates can stop those. There's only a tiny steel tip.

Well, if you want to stick to 5.56 and have penetration, even through body armor, go with "barrier blind" ammo.

That should be even less effective.

It's not.  Not by a long shot.  My old job ran the testing for it.  Body Armor, even with plates, means very little to SOST ammo.

Cool. I've held a plate with 5 .30 AP bullets lodged in it. I can't see these doing better, but keeping the point forward counts for a lot.




The boat-tail keeping the round stable and point on does help a lot. Also, the outer jacket peels, so the inner penetrator keeps on truckin'

/There are publicly released tests on MK318
//Check NDIA for papers presented on it, includes penetration testing data
 
2013-02-23 11:49:40 AM  

misanthropologist: iheartscotch: misanthropologist: iheartscotch: You'd think people who obviously like personal freedoms would support all personal freedoms; not just the ones that they, personally, like.

I feel that is what makes America great; the power to make choices. Can there be a right or wrong if you never had a choice?

You'd think people who like sex would support all types of sex, not just the ones that they, personally, like. For example, I like sex with women, but if liking sex with women implies liking all kinds of sex, I'd have to also support people who like to have sex with children, or who like to have sex with animals, or who like to have sex with people against their will. That's the logic you're applying here.

We can make distinctions between activities and values, and we can negotiate and debate which ones are acceptable and which ones are not. We are, after all, humans, and that is what humans do that distinguishes us from other animals. But if we're going to do that well, we need to look at the real effects of various activities and value systems in terms of people's lives, the environment, etc., etc., etc. If we find that an activity or value system has effects that we do not find tolerable, we should try to change those activities or value systems to minimize or stop the intolerable effects all together. We are not bound to accept any and all beliefs and practices as morally or empirically equivalent and valuable just because they exist in the world.

My my; I was all personal freedomy and you were all sex with turtlesy.

Gun ownership is in The Bill of Rights. I feel that it sets a very bad precident to null and void one of the rights laid down in The Bill of Rights; why not null and void another when it becomes inconvenient?

I know, I know; militia, militia, militia! Gees, jan; a little jealous? All they'd have to do is start a nonpaying state militia; any noncriminal can join for free.

Just pointing out the flawed logic of "if any X, then all Xs"... and it is flawed logic.


Ah, I ment all personal freedoms outlined in the constitution and bill of rights; not the freedom to go take a dump in a park.

/ damn hobos
 
2013-02-23 11:53:49 AM  
The "Home of the Brave[tm]" continues to be afraid if its own shadow.
 
2013-02-23 11:57:02 AM  

ausfahrk: misanthropologist: Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate?

Actually, the answer to that is "yes".  The UK, Canada, and U.S. (as well as other developed nations) have roughly the same suicide rate per capita, even though they have vastly different gun laws and cultures.  Without looking it up again, I think it's about 12 people per 100,000 per year.


Interesting. According to this it's 10.2 in Canada and 10.1 in the US. (24.7 in S Korea and 4.4 in Mexico). So gun laws and culture appears to not be correlated with suicide rate at all. Partly that's surprising, because I would assume significant cultural similarity between Canada and the US, other than the gun aspect, and similar social conditions between the two countries (with socio-economic factors like unemployment, poverty, etc., being one set of drivers for suicide). Then I started to think about differences between Canada and the US other than gun culture, and remembered that Canada has a huge problem with Aboriginal suicide. The rate among Aboriginal populations is over 2 times higher than for the Canadian population in general (so, closer to 20.4/100k), and even though Aboriginal people account for only about 4% of the Canadian population, that may have a significant effect on inclusive national level statistics. I wonder if the increase in suicide rate I expected to see in the US due to the availability of guns is offset by the increased suicide rate among Canadian Aboriginals?

Interestingly, according to this site (which has its own creepiness about it) in 2006, 50.7% of all successful suicides in America were committed by gun. I couldn't find statistics on suicide attempts and the relative success rate of different methods, but I think it safe to assume for the sake of argument that gun attempts are going to have a higher success rate than some of the other methods. If that's the case, presumably some of those 50% of successful suicides would be unsuccessful, potentially leading to intervention, treatment, and recovery rather than death. If that holds, a reduction in the number of guns available to Americans contemplating suicide may lead to a reduction in the number of suicides and thus the rate per 100,000. In Canada, on the other hand, the suicide rate may stay higher due to the statistical effect of incredibly high rates of suicide in Aboriginal communities. Since the aboriginal suicide rate is connected to alcohol and substance abuse, which is further connected with ethno-racial discrimination and marginalization, without addressing those root causes, Canada will not see a reduction in its overall suicide rate.

Thanks for the thought-provoking response!
 
2013-02-23 11:59:01 AM  

iheartscotch: Just pointing out the flawed logic of "if any X, then all Xs"... and it is flawed logic.

Ah, I ment all personal freedoms outlined in the constitution and bill of rights; not the freedom to go take a dump in a park.

/ damn hobos


Why shouldn't the freedom to go take a dump in the park be protected like the freedom to own guns?

Seriously. What makes some freedoms more valuable than others?
 
2013-02-23 12:01:37 PM  
Did someone say gun? Newsflash.
 
2013-02-23 12:02:11 PM  

lohphat: The "Home of the Brave[tm]" continues to be afraid if its own shadow.


Nope. Just the weak sisters on TV.

BTW, Piers, go the fark home.
 
2013-02-23 12:04:30 PM  

gnarlywizzard: remus: Isn't this the same Jesus whose Father told the Jews to completely destroy their enemies, killing every single one of them and demolishing any trace of them?

Just wondering...

my dad supported the Iraq War...does this somehow invalidate my personal anti-war beliefs?


IRL, the only war you get to be anti is the one at your feet.
Safe and sound where you stand, swell, be all the farkin' anti you desire.
 
2013-02-23 12:06:31 PM  

utah dude: Uisce Beatha: That is anywhere from a 2 to 4 MOA round. What you want is more like this:

yes yes yes 308 or 762x51 very nice. moving along...




The glorious people's 7.62x54R frowns upon your shenanigans, comrade.
 
2013-02-23 12:07:11 PM  
Just up the street.

home.earthlink.net
 
2013-02-23 12:10:19 PM  

misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.

Bubble wrap laws- welcome to the Nanny States of America where primary govermental function is to enact law to protect us from ourselves.  Oh, and let's not look into too many issues where the individual citizen may have to recognize they have only themselves to blame and that maybe, all the government intrusion in the world is not going to fix.  You know, cause it's always someone elses fault.

So, essentially, you're confirming my interpretation of your desire to separate out suicides and accidental gun deaths from the list of total gun deaths because they're not a real problem? And the risk of accidental ...


Suicide is one of many of life's little ills- as are gun related deaths.  The difference is taking one's life has taken so much more of a toll on society and is, in some sense, a reflection of how healthy that society is and how well that government is representing it. Failed society = failed government.  People shooting other people is not all that high on why our society is failing- albeit it may actually be a symptom of that failure.  The reality is that our leaders are either clueless as to what has happened to cause this breakdown ,or feel powerless to make the changes needed, so they instead engage themselves in the trivial feel good pursuit of regulation over the things they think they can manage (worked out well in prohibition and regulation of narcotics) as opposed to addressing real issues.

People don't shoot themselves because they have accessibility to guns- they take their lives because they believed they have failed (either in truth or in psychosis) and that they must pay or that death is th only release from a painful life.  How can the government get involved to make us all feel better about our selves?  One is to recognize that the individual is often the master of their own fate and quit supporting the idea that others determine your fate and that only the govermnet can protect you and save you from yourself.  You cannot raise a child successfully through dependency and cocooning them in bubble wrap and then expect them to handle the realities of life the first time they step out from under their wing, why would you expect any different from a society raised under the same conditions?

Kids don't get fat from the accessibility of coke- it's because they have parents who refuse to tell their kids no or place limitations.  Regulating coke only relieves dumbass parents from their responsibility of controlling their child's intake of sugar.  But yes, I guess its a hell of a lot easier to regulate a business (who you hold by the short hairs in the form of re-licensing) than to tell your constituency that they need to be better guardians of their kids.
 
2013-02-23 12:12:08 PM  
Apparently, MIT students can't discern the difference between a janitor in coveralls with a broom and a gunman holding a rifle.

I thought they were supposed to be super-smart?
 
2013-02-23 12:12:11 PM  

misanthropologist: Thanks for the thought-provoking response!


Honestly, I'm shocked that you answered.  While we're talking, can you help me out with one more question that's been bugging me for a long time:  Fast food, cigarettes, and alcohol kill more Americans before breakfast every day than gun murders do all year.  If you're just looking to save lives, by the numbers, it seems like that's where the low-hanging fruit is.  Why don't we have a million moms marching on Washington (...or whatever...)about that?
 
2013-02-23 12:13:53 PM  

Karma Curmudgeon: The actual data is maintained by the Justice Department but exempt from the FOIA, cannot be legally released


Well, the FBI does maintain the Uniform Crime Reports which has quite detailed records on crime and have all sorts of interesting tables and details. 2011 is the last year for which complete records are available and data from the first half of 2012 has been released.

Naturally, their records are concerned about crimes like homicide, aggravated assault, etc. I don't think they maintain records on suicide.
 
2013-02-23 12:14:26 PM  

misanthropologist: So people who attempt suicide are not valuable members of society and should just be allowed, even encouraged, to complete their attempt because seeking ways to limit their access to guns would infringe on their right to kill themselves, and no government has any type of interest or obligation in keeping its citizens alive and thriving?


If only there was a way to force people who thought about doing something with their own body that ran counter to your opinion to rethink their ideas of doing something to their own self....

Trans vaginal ultrasounds maybe?
 
2013-02-23 12:15:14 PM  

ausfahrk: misanthropologist: Thanks for the thought-provoking response!

Honestly, I'm shocked that you answered.  While we're talking, can you help me out with one more question that's been bugging me for a long time:  Fast food, cigarettes, and alcohol kill more Americans before breakfast every day than gun murders do all year.  If you're just looking to save lives, by the numbers, it seems like that's where the low-hanging fruit is.  Why don't we have a million moms marching on Washington (...or whatever...)about that?


Wouldn't want to offend the voters now, would we?
 
2013-02-23 12:15:17 PM  

misanthropologist: iheartscotch: Just pointing out the flawed logic of "if any X, then all Xs"... and it is flawed logic.

Ah, I ment all personal freedoms outlined in the constitution and bill of rights; not the freedom to go take a dump in a park.

/ damn hobos

Why shouldn't the freedom to go take a dump in the park be protected like the freedom to own guns?

Seriously. What makes some freedoms more valuable than others?


For one; taking a dump in the park is frowned upon for some unknown reason.

Unfortunately; the anti-taking a dump in the park lobby is pretty powerful.

I wouldn't say some freedoms are more valuable then others; I would say, instead, that there are some truths that are self-evident and that all men, women and children are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

/ how would one defend these rights without the ability to, in only the extreme of self preservation, draw forth their sword?
 
2013-02-23 12:18:33 PM  

GBB: People buy when they can pass these checks, then wait until the voices become over powering.


Is that what people do?  I was wondering what people did.
 
2013-02-23 12:19:39 PM  
MIT students don't go on homicidal sprees. At least not in person.

That's what drone strikes are for.
 
2013-02-23 12:23:04 PM  

trappedspirit: GBB: People buy when they can pass these checks, then wait until the voices become over powering.

Is that what people do?  I was wondering what people did.


Be cause his voices told him so.  projection:the attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.
 
2013-02-23 12:25:41 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting


Another one bites the dust.mp3... as in one more retard to the ignore list.
 
2013-02-23 12:32:44 PM  
You get five or six of these a year, and maybe one in five years is an actual gun, and of those maybe one in the entire country for that year was actually someone intending harm.

Last scare the place I work had it was one of the flag corps guys from the ROTC transporting a ceremonial prop.  In his uniform.  Painted orange specifically to make it clear it wasn't a functional firearm.  The one before that was literally a nerf gun.

It's... actually not that big a deal unless people actually get shot, guys.  Especially threats, threats just mean it's midterms already.
 
2013-02-23 12:38:23 PM  

snocone: gnarlywizzard: remus: Isn't this the same Jesus whose Father told the Jews to completely destroy their enemies, killing every single one of them and demolishing any trace of them?

Just wondering...

my dad supported the Iraq War...does this somehow invalidate my personal anti-war beliefs?

IRL, the only war you get to be anti is the one at your feet.
Safe and sound where you stand, swell, be all the farkin' anti you desire.


way to miss the point. i was just using an example to demonstrate the fallacy of arguing that the shiatty OT god automatically invalidates the hippie NT god. i'm an atheist btw.
 
2013-02-23 12:45:18 PM  

gnarlywizzard: snocone: gnarlywizzard: remus: Isn't this the same Jesus whose Father told the Jews to completely destroy their enemies, killing every single one of them and demolishing any trace of them?

Just wondering...

my dad supported the Iraq War...does this somehow invalidate my personal anti-war beliefs?

IRL, the only war you get to be anti is the one at your feet.
Safe and sound where you stand, swell, be all the farkin' anti you desire.

way to miss the point. i was just using an example to demonstrate the fallacy of arguing that the shiatty OT god automatically invalidates the hippie NT god. i'm an atheist btw.


Yea, I see you are big on labels.
 
2013-02-23 12:55:12 PM  

utah dude: IronTom: I bet it's an AK-47.

no, it's a glock ar-47. duh.


hey that was my joke.  lay off the carbonation bro
 
2013-02-23 12:57:04 PM  

Mart Laar's beard shaver: "A gun-free zone?"

How's that workin' for ya, MIT?


Pretty well, apparently.
 
2013-02-23 12:57:49 PM  

Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.


Just curious. Do you label everyone who owns a gun as a "gun nut"?
 
2013-02-23 12:59:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: sethen320: retarded: Now is not the time to have a discussion about gun control.

Discuss it all you want. Just stop giving retarded solutions.

Any solution is a retarded solution to gun nuts. They just want to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.


No. The problem is that most people with "solutions" forget the difference between privileges and rights.
 
2013-02-23 01:03:09 PM  

sethen320: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.

Just curious. Do you label everyone who owns a gun as a "gun nut"?


i do.  but then again i'm gay
 
2013-02-23 01:08:58 PM  
They say it was a hoax.
 
2013-02-23 01:10:10 PM  

potterydove: You know what defeats standard body armor?

[www.aimsurplus.com image 480x312]


M855 steel core, nasty stuff. Still available to civilians...for now.
 
2013-02-23 01:15:57 PM  
Who the f**k calls in a gun threat to a school on a SATURDAY?! O_o
 
2013-02-23 01:16:58 PM  
So...I can haz gun pron thread jack?....

DTI AR-15, .223 red dot sight

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/IMC977/Pics1/10-14-12053.jpg " >

Springfield 1911 .45  custom grips and sights

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/IMC977/Pics1/10-14-12057.jpg " >

the wifes carry gun, Ruger LCP .380 w laser sight

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/IMC977/Pics1/10-14-12059.jpg " >

Missing are photos of my carry gun a Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm, a Fabarms Red Lion 12ga auto, Mosin/Nagant model I forget.
 
2013-02-23 01:17:33 PM  
Wow this thread didnt need my help to go full-retard.
 
2013-02-23 01:17:48 PM  
Dammit, photos didnt take, no time to fix, will try later.
 
2013-02-23 01:18:08 PM  

sethen320: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.

Just curious. Do you label everyone who owns a gun as a "gun nut"?


Someone who owns a gun = gun not

A woman who has an abortion = abortion nut responsible feminist
 
2013-02-23 01:28:45 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: MIT? Well at least we know no Americans will be harmed.


+1
/sadly.
 
2013-02-23 01:30:13 PM  

Captain Steroid: Who the f**k calls in a gun threat to a school on a SATURDAY?! O_o


i love saturday - erasure
 
2013-02-23 01:35:32 PM  
t0.gstatic.com

Teacher must be a real dick to test on a Saturday.
 
2013-02-23 01:36:44 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: sethen320: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.

Just curious. Do you label everyone who owns a gun as a "gun nut"?

i do.  but then again i'm gay


Interesting. Do you have special names for people based on skin color too?
 
2013-02-23 01:52:42 PM  

Tsu-na-mi: inb4 guy in HALO costume


my thoughts exactly
 
2013-02-23 01:58:30 PM  

BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.


Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.
 
2013-02-23 02:00:13 PM  

misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.


Suicides failing and them leading productive happy lives? that's awesome.

what about the suicides that are successful and traumatize everyone who saw it? or who found the body?
 
2013-02-23 02:18:48 PM  
Could this whole thing have been avoided if a student armed with a beanbag had thrown it at the perpetrator while shouting, "Freeze Spell!"
 
2013-02-23 02:27:18 PM  

Larva Lump: Just up the street.

[home.earthlink.net image 640x600]


Right by the reactor.
 
2013-02-23 02:33:03 PM  
DS1970:

The worst thing going for blacks are blacks.  We all just sit back and enjoy some popcorn while you all kill each other.

Um... Wow.

First, don't lump me in with "we all". Not all white people are ignorant, racist nitwits.

Second, why yes, I will call you racist. Primarily because, well, you're an ignorant racist. As someone who is white but grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood, elementary through middle school part of a mere 10% white, and a church filled with intelligent, loving, generous and lo and behold, all of them knew who their fathers were, I can say with some confidence that yes. You're a bigot. And a racist.

I'm confused why you came to Fark. Was Free Republic and Stormfront not accepting new accounts?
 
2013-02-23 02:34:58 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you are truly Pro Life, you are NOT pro-gun.


So if you are truly pro choice you are NOT pro assault weapons ban? Because that sentence actually makes sense.
 
2013-02-23 02:43:49 PM  

wildcardjack: MIT students don't go on homicidal sprees. At least not in person.

That's what drone strikes are for.


Piss off somebody at MIT, faculty or staff, you're more likely to find your credit score thrashed and your name on the no-fly list. And you have 5 grand in unpaid parking tickets.

Fear the nerds.
 
2013-02-23 02:52:58 PM  
Rumor has it that it was all due to a squirrel, was it really all over a squirrel??

i170.photobucket.com

/Really one nutty rumor....
 
2013-02-23 02:59:58 PM  
DS1970: Guns don't kill people, blacks do.
 
2013-02-23 03:18:07 PM  

BlippityBleep: instant news hero? check.  soon to hear about some person that everyone knows has mental issues? check.  everybody pointing at guns while ignoring the previous two issues?  check.  lulz.


Jump again.
 
2013-02-23 03:43:50 PM  

Giltric: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

How many murders?


How many white kids murdered? That's the only thing anyone cares about. Ask Chicago...
 
2013-02-23 03:50:24 PM  

Mart Laar's beard shaver: "A gun-free zone?"

How's that workin' for ya, MIT?


Pistol and rifle shooting are two of the most popular Phys. Ed. classes at MIT.
 
2013-02-23 03:59:45 PM  

DS1970: Foolish, fearful Americans.  You're afraid of semi-auto rifles, instead of the handguns, which criminals use to commit 97% of homicides.

I live in Chicago - our violence is legendary - this January was the worst in years, with 24 people shot dead (just with gangs).  To be honest, it's AA's killing AA's.  And the gangs don't know how to fu(king shoot, so 50% of the time they're killing their unintended target.

Call me wrong, call me racist, but the data supports my claim.  This seems the AA culture; have a baby before 10th grade, with a slew of potential "dads" (which aren't discovered until a Maury appearance), work as little as possible to get whatever money you're only going to spend on ridiculous "bling" and drugs. then blame white folk for your predicament.

Quit playing the race-card, you lazy, shiftless AA's...take some responsibility and please raise your crotch-fruit so I don't have to shoot your kid in self-defense.

The worst thing going for blacks are blacks.  We all just sit back and enjoy some popcorn while you all kill each other.


I don't get it...you're blaming Alcoholics Anonymous?

Well, I suppose they do seem a bit dicey. You can't really trust a man who doesn't drink.
 
2013-02-23 04:19:01 PM  
I sent Drew an email asking if I could pay for a gun nut thread today. He was too busy. Now there is a free one. Yay!

Please circulate this video to anyone who will watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG8IvO7vlok

Thanks
Dave
 
2013-02-23 04:30:31 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting


Sorry, would have been more but Chicago got snow.
 
2013-02-23 04:35:43 PM  

ParaHandy: I sent Drew an email asking if I could pay for a gun nut thread today. He was too busy. Now there is a free one. Yay!

Please circulate this video to anyone who will watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG8IvO7vlok

Thanks
Dave


I'd like to know, before I continue watching, with an open mind, your vids. Where were you born/raised in Scotland, and how long have you been American. I only ask as I was born in the country (Glasgow, Queens hospital, Gorbals resident, then of Burnbank's Jungle area, family in red-row flats, now living in mother's home town in Sweden), as I've never heard that many ex-pats with the accent affectation as strongly americanized as you, in fact the most of expats sport an even broader brogue than you.
 
2013-02-23 04:57:28 PM  

DS1970: call me racist


Well, if it quacks like a bigot..
 
2013-02-23 06:00:48 PM  

ausfahrk: misanthropologist: Thanks for the thought-provoking response!

Honestly, I'm shocked that you answered.  While we're talking, can you help me out with one more question that's been bugging me for a long time:  Fast food, cigarettes, and alcohol kill more Americans before breakfast every day than gun murders do all year.  If you're just looking to save lives, by the numbers, it seems like that's where the low-hanging fruit is.  Why don't we have a million moms marching on Washington (...or whatever...)about that?


Good point. Bloomberg in NYC has tried to make an impact on this stuff and he gets publicly ridiculed for it. Meanwhile, the FDA is in bed with the agrochem companies, telling us nothing is farked here, dudes.

Also, not sure if you just haven't been paying attention but there have been major campaigns against cigarettes for several decades (which tobacco companies fought for years, including suppressing their own research that showed a link with cancer and publishing fraudulent studies that claimed there was no link); against alcohol from time-to-time, most notably before and during Prohibition; and against fast food in various places and increasingly these days (ever watch the national morning news shows? They're all about getting people to eat right), including Bloomberg's transfats ban and his attempted large soda ban. Also, there have been national campaigns in many countries trying to encourage physical activity and healthier eating choices.

I guess one reason why more people are out in the streets against guns than against fast food, cigarettes, and booze is that for the most part those things kill you slowly, and the signs of impending health consequences can be caught early and reversed, whereas with guns it's much harder to dodge a bullet (no pun intended, but then I noticed it and decided to claim it wasn't intended, so pun semi-intended). Plus, any of those things in moderation are probably acceptable in terms of maintaining your body's health, although they all seem to have the potential to lead to dependencies and addictions that make it hard to self-regulate consumption.

I would imagine that another reason why it seems like the anti-gun people are more active and vocal is that the kind of things that get them riled up are spectacular events (as in, spectacles, not as in wonderful). These are acute instances of trauma and sorrow. The other things you mention, which, you're right, kill far more people than guns, are chronic problems. But then, you hardly ever hear talk about all the gun violence in Chicago, which is more chronic than acute, and you certainly don't have major media explosions and public outcries over it. And yet it kills more people per year than is even remotely acceptable. But 20 6 year olds killed in the space of a few minutes is going to provoke more outrage than 6 20 year olds killed in a week, and it's not just because those 6 20 year olds are poor, Black gangmembers on the South Side.
 
2013-02-23 06:17:43 PM  
clowncar on fire:
Suicide is one of many of life's little ills- as are gun related deaths.  The difference is taking one's life has taken so much more of a toll on society and is, in some sense, a reflection of how healthy that society is and how well that government is representing it. Failed society = failed government.  People shooting other people is not all that high on why our society is failing- albeit it may actually be a symptom of that failure.  The reality is that our leaders are either clueless as to what has happened to cause this breakdown ,or feel powerless to make the changes needed, so they instead engage themselves in the trivial feel good pursuit of regulation over the things they think they can manage (worked out well in prohibition and regulation of narcotics) as opposed to addressing real issues.

If you can rewrite that paragraph into something intelligible, I may be able to respond to it.

People don't shoot themselves because they have accessibility to guns- they take their lives because they believed they have failed (either in truth or in psychosis) and that they must pay or that death is th only release from a painful life.  How can the government get involved to make us all feel better about our selves?  One is to recognize that the individual is often the master of their own fate and quit supporting the idea that others determine your fate and that only the govermnet can protect you and save you from yourself.  You cannot raise a child successfully through dependency and cocooning them in bubble wrap and then expect them to handle the realities of life the first time they step out from under their wing, why would you expect any different from a society raised under the same conditions?

People who kill themselves with guns do so because they have access to guns. They may or may not choose to kill themselves if they don't have access to guns, but many of the other methods of suicide are more painful, slow, and uncertain. A gun is quick and thorough. Reducing the availability of guns may have several effects: making people think it's too much trouble or too risky to kill themselves by other means and reducing the number of attempts; leading to failed attempts after which the suicidal person can get help.

As for the government making people feel better about themselves. That's precisely the government's job, although not directly. The government's job is to facilitate social organization and individuals' access to opportunities, help maintain the well-being of society and the individuals that constitute it, and to regulate and intervene when factors contribute to hard times, insecurity, and risk. The government might also try to ensure an adequate mental and physical health care service, so that people have the opportunity to feel better about themselves and to get help doing so when they need it.

The point about the individual being the master of his own fate ignores the fact that humans must live in social contexts to survive and reproduce. Our species only exists in groups; it evolved as a social species and it continues to be one. What this implies is that no individual is completely the master of his own fate. In fact, even though we're all thinking, reasoning, decision-makers in the world, our ability to make decisions is inherently constrained by the environmental and social context in which we must operate in order to exist. The government is not the only entity that can protect and save you, and it's hard for the government to intervene and protect an individual from herself, but the government can certainly intervene and protect the individual from others who would do that individual harm. Or from systematic problems that will do the individual harm or pose significant risk of doing the individual harm. That, in fact, is a better way to explain the role of government in regulating social interactions and facilitating individual success.

Kids don't get fat from the accessibility of coke- it's because they have parents who refuse to tell their kids no or place limitations.  Regulating coke only relieves dumbass parents from their responsibility of controlling their child's intake of sugar.  But yes, I guess its a hell of a lot easier to regulate a business (who you hold by the short hairs in the form of re-licensing) than to tell your constituency that they need to be better guardians of their kids.

The kid in your example here must also be the master of his own fate, because he's an individual just like you or I, and just like his parents. The fat kid with the soda should take responsiblity for himself and not blame his parents for letting him drink so much soda he got fat. Leave the parents out of it because, like the government, parents cannot save the fat kid from himself - he's the master of his own fate.
 
2013-02-23 06:26:45 PM  

Benjamin Orr: misanthropologist: Benjamin Orr: misanthropologist: Benjamin Orr: Slate is crowd sourcing their data

Is that a bad thing?

As long as you realize there will be some level of bias involved.

I would not blindly accept crowd sourced data from Fox News either.

Explain the bias. I mean, sure, we should look at their method of going from crowd-sourced raw data to compiled and cleaned list of unique gun deaths, but if we're talking about compiling a list of gun deaths, I'm much more inclined to trust a crowd-sourced list compiled by a "liberal" media outlet than a "conservative" one, simply because I think the conservative one has a vested interest in underreporting the number, while the liberal one has a vested interest in accurately reporting the number.

lol.. No interest in over reporting at all then? No interest in twisting the facts to suit them? Wow.


Ah, forgot if I responded to this or not. Sure, there's a risk of over-reporting. Of course you should take any statistics with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism. Anyways, transparency in data collection and analysis solves that problem, which is why we should look at their method of going from crowd-sourced raw data to complied and cleaned list. That said, based on the national statistics that are available, I don't think there's any real need to over-report gun violence in America to "twist the facts." I'm open to the argument that maybe Slate does have a vested interest in inflating gun violence numbers, but I'd like to hear what it is beyond them having a reputation as a liberal media outlet and that liberals are just as bad as conservatives when it comes to fudging evidence and spinning lies.

I read your original post to imply there was something inherently wrong with crowd-sourcing data. That's great in a "we have to be skeptical of everything" sense, but it should lead to more questions, not to rejection of crowd-sourced data. I don't know if that's what you were implying...
 
2013-02-23 06:38:20 PM  

Giltric: misanthropologist: So people who attempt suicide are not valuable members of society and should just be allowed, even encouraged, to complete their attempt because seeking ways to limit their access to guns would infringe on their right to kill themselves, and no government has any type of interest or obligation in keeping its citizens alive and thriving?

If only there was a way to force people who thought about doing something with their own body that ran counter to your opinion to rethink their ideas of doing something to their own self....

Trans vaginal ultrasounds maybe?


I'm not saying no one should ever be allowed to kill themself. People do it all the time, and it's unfortunate. I can see situations where it might be a reasonable option - suffering from incurable chronic illness, for example. But it would be nice if for all of those people who kill themselves because they believe things can never get any better, there was more support to help them realize that things can get better and then to facilitate them to actually make things better for themselves. One way NOT to do that is to ensure that people have free and easy access to the most efficient killing tools, which increase their likelihood of success at suicide. It's received wisdom that suicide attempts are often a cry for help (and we should always be wary of received wisdom). Suicide attempts involving guns are, I presume, less likely to fail than most other methods of attempting suicide. Anyways, I was responding to the person's post that sounded like they were arguing that suicide by gun had nothing to do with guns, and that anyone who wanted to kill themselves should be encouraged to do so by having access to the most efficient weapons around.

Anyways, the whole abortion issue is far more complicated because it involves debates over when a fetus becomes a person and how to reconcile the conflicting interests of at least three parties - the woman carrying the fetus, the fetus itself as a legally recognized person, and the state. That's the reason Roe v Wade ended up in the somewhat slippery way it did, relying on fetal viability outside the womb as the final marker of when a woman's right trumped the right of the fetus, and the state's interest in regulating the conflicting rights of two persons.

Both issues - the state's role in regulating or intervening in abortion and suicide - are ethical quandaries that have no easy answers.
 
2013-02-23 06:43:56 PM  

This thread:

MIT advising people to "shelter in place" after reports of a person with a long rifle and body armor on campus



I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Gun Grabbers were shrieking with giddy delight....

(UPDATE: report "unfounded")



... and were suddenly silenced
 
2013-02-23 06:47:35 PM  

iheartscotch: misanthropologist: iheartscotch: Just pointing out the flawed logic of "if any X, then all Xs"... and it is flawed logic.

Ah, I ment all personal freedoms outlined in the constitution and bill of rights; not the freedom to go take a dump in a park.

/ damn hobos

Why shouldn't the freedom to go take a dump in the park be protected like the freedom to own guns?

Seriously. What makes some freedoms more valuable than others?

For one; taking a dump in the park is frowned upon for some unknown reason.

Unfortunately; the anti-taking a dump in the park lobby is pretty powerful.

I wouldn't say some freedoms are more valuable then others; I would say, instead, that there are some truths that are self-evident and that all men, women and children are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

/ how would one defend these rights without the ability to, in only the extreme of self preservation, draw forth their sword?


It seems that you're making an argument around constitutional infallibility, rendering it a dead text, regardless of the fact that some of the rights you would protect are amendments to the original.

I would counter that no truth is self-evident, but rather that truths like rights and freedoms in society are inherently socially-constructed, negotiated, and malleable. The fact that you mention women and children being of equal standing with men is evidence of this, because it certainly has not been the case historically, not even in the context of the US Constitution.

And while the idea of inalienable rights is a nice one, those rights are always subject to limitations in the context of society (and subject to restriction or removal for a variety of reasons in a variety of contexts, including imprisonment after being convicted of infringing on someone else's inalienable rights). That's how society works. Individual freedoms must always be negotiated where they conflict, and regulated - whether by formal institutions or informal practices - wherever systematic problems arise.
 
2013-02-23 06:51:35 PM  

aesirx: misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.

Suicides failing and them leading productive happy lives? that's awesome.


It's never happened? It's unthinkable? It should happen more often, because it's certainly possible.

what about the suicides that are successful and traumatize everyone who saw it? or who found the body?

What about them? They're farking horrible. Suicide is often an entirely selfish act. In a better world there would be fewer of them and fewer attempts.
 
2013-02-23 07:01:10 PM  

misanthropologist: Also, not sure if you just haven't been paying attention but there have been major campaigns against cigarettes for several decades (which tobacco companies fought for years, including suppressing their own research that showed a link with cancer and publishing fraudulent studies that claimed
there was no link);


Haven't.  I don't watch the TV -- lost interest some time in my late 20's.  I did attend a street performance in Victoria, BC recently, where the torch juggler couldn't find someone in the audience with a lighter, and that was kind of awesome.  (Disclaimer:  I smoked for 10 years, pack-a-day at the end.)

I guess one reason why more people are out in the streets against guns than against fast food, cigarettes, and booze is that for the most part those things kill you slowly, and the signs of impending health consequences can be caught early and reversed, whereas with guns it's much harder to dodge a bullet (no pun intended, but then I noticed it and decided to claim it wasn't intended, so pun semi-intended). Plus, any of those things in moderation are probably acceptable in terms of maintaining your body's health, although they all seem to have the potential to lead to dependencies and addictions that make it hard to self-regulate consumption.

Most gun use involves zero killing of animals, much less people.  Lunatics can be detected and dealt with, in many cases, long before they pick up a gun and off someone.  In other words, it's hard to dodge a bullet once it's been fired, but it's equally hard to dodge a bit of plaque that falls off your arterial wall.

I would imagine that another reason why it seems like the anti-gun people are more active and vocal is that the kind of things that get them riled up are spectacular events (as in, spectacles, not as in wonderful). These are acute instances of trauma and sorrow.

Glad you agree with me.  So STFU and stop trying to take away my AK while there are ten bacon shops within spitting distance of your house.  Rat-a-tat-tat...
 
2013-02-23 07:34:02 PM  

Dimensio: BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.

Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.


Ironically, our Mass. "permanent" AWB was signed by...

Mitt Romney.

So, back under your bridge.
 
2013-02-23 07:38:03 PM  

ausfahrk: misanthropologist: Also, not sure if you just haven't been paying attention but there have been major campaigns against cigarettes for several decades (which tobacco companies fought for years, including suppressing their own research that showed a link with cancer and publishing fraudulent studies that claimed
there was no link);

Haven't.  I don't watch the TV -- lost interest some time in my late 20's.  I did attend a street performance in Victoria, BC recently, where the torch juggler couldn't find someone in the audience with a lighter, and that was kind of awesome.  (Disclaimer:  I smoked for 10 years, pack-a-day at the end.)


That is cool. Times they are a changing. That's also Victoria though. Might have been way more lighters on the scene up in Courtney or in some parts of Vancouver.


I guess one reason why more people are out in the streets against guns than against fast food, cigarettes, and booze is that for the most part those things kill you slowly, and the signs of impending health consequences can be caught early and reversed, whereas with guns it's much harder to dodge a bullet (no pun intended, but then I noticed it and decided to claim it wasn't intended, so pun semi-intended). Plus, any of those things in moderation are probably acceptable in terms of maintaining your body's health, although they all seem to have the potential to lead to dependencies and addictions that make it hard to self-regulate consumption.

Most gun use involves zero killing of animals, much less people.  Lunatics can be detected and dealt with, in many cases, long before they pick up a gun and off someone.  In other words, it's hard to dodge a bullet once it's been fired, but it's equally hard to dodge a bit of plaque that falls off your arterial wall.


I suppose it can be. My dad smoked for about 40 years, had a slow, drawn-out heart attack a few years ago due to an occluded artery, and hasn't smoked a single cancer-stick since. Apparently his arteries are clearing up and he's at lower risk of a repeat heart attack because of quitting smoking. He could lose the 15 pounds he's gained since quitting, but that's another problem.

Lunatics are one thing. Sometimes they get noticed before anything gets farked up, sometimes they don't (hence the shootings in Tuscon, Aurora, and Newtown). Chronic gun violence in American cities is another mess. Since most gun use involves zero killing of anything other than paper targets and clay pigeons, one solution might be to require all guns to be stored in secured premises like shooting ranges or police stations and checked out for use. It would cut down on lunatics, as well as gun use in domestic violence. It doesn't solve the home-defense problem, but it's unclear how big a problem that really is (hello, Oscar Pistorius....). Getting guns off the streets and out of gang hands is a whole other challenge at a different scale. Illegal guns are still going to be illegal if more laws are made restricting or regulating them. Amnesty exchanges seem to have worked in the past, but they don't address the root causes of gang violence or even gang existence, which need to be dealt with before American can make any real progress on its urban murder problem.


I would imagine that another reason why it seems like the anti-gun people are more active and vocal is that the kind of things that get them riled up are spectacular events (as in, spectacles, not as in wonderful). These are acute instances of trauma and sorrow.

Glad you agree with me.  So STFU and stop trying to take away my AK while there are ten bacon shops within spitting distan
ce of your house.  Rat-a-tat-tat...

Maybe we disagree there. I think we can and must do better on all of the examples we've talked about. But if you're shooting hogs, make sure to save me some of that bacon!

/not a gay come-on
//also not meant as innuendo
 
2013-02-23 08:00:54 PM  
if it's gay. it's goin on FARK!!!!

gay 4eva!!
 
2013-02-23 10:16:29 PM  

ParaHandy: I sent Drew an email asking if I could pay for a gun nut thread today. He was too busy. Now there is a free one. Yay!

Please circulate this video to anyone who will watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG8IvO7vlok

Thanks
Dave


LOL, get rid of the NRA.  You owe me a new keyboard.  What a simple plan.  "Just get rid of this group I don't like".  I took that for serious at first, so, I guess you got me.
 
2013-02-23 11:49:47 PM  

clowncar on fire: misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: misanthropologist: clowncar on fire: Princess Ryans Knickers: 2189 gun deaths in United States alone since Sandy Hook and counting

And how many are left when you take out suicide and accidental shootings?

Is the argument here that without guns, suicides will happen at the same rate? And that without guns, accidental deaths will happen at the same rate?

I suppose it's fair enough that people who want to commit suicide should be allowed to do it by the most efficient and effective means. We wouldn't want them to fail and accidentally survive or something, and then eventually get out of their depression or whatever situation led them to attempt suicide and live productive and fulfilling lives. People who attempt suicide should be assisted in their efforts, because that will make more room for the rest of us to thrive. Right?

And those accidental shootings, well, that's just technologically facilitated Darwinism. Those people would inevitably find another way to accidentally die, ideally before they go and reproduce and pass on their accident-prone genes. We should make sure that everyone has a gun so that gun accidents help to weed out the ignorant and weaker members of society, leaving only the strong and intelligent. Right?

There are more reasons for better gun regulation (and regulation is more than just passing laws...) than just murders.

Bubble wrap laws- welcome to the Nanny States of America where primary govermental function is to enact law to protect us from ourselves.  Oh, and let's not look into too many issues where the individual citizen may have to recognize they have only themselves to blame and that maybe, all the government intrusion in the world is not going to fix.  You know, cause it's always someone elses fault.

So, essentially, you're confirming my interpretation of your desire to separate out suicides and accidental gun deaths from the list of total gun deaths because they're not a real problem? And the risk of accidental ...

Suicide is one of many of life's little ills- as are gun related deaths.  The difference is taking one's life has taken so much more of a toll on society and is, in some sense, a reflection of how healthy that society is and how well that government is representing it. Failed society = failed government.  People shooting other people is not all that high on why our society is failing- albeit it may actually be a symptom of that failure.  The reality is that our leaders are either clueless as to what has happened to cause this breakdown ,or feel powerless to make the changes needed, so they instead engage themselves in the trivial feel good pursuit of regulation over the things they think they can manage (worked out well in prohibition and regulation of narcotics) as opposed to addressing real issues.

People don't shoot themselves because they have accessibility to guns- they take their lives because they believed they have failed (either in truth or in psychosis) and that they must pay or that death is th only release from a painful life.  How can the government get involved to make us all feel better about our selves?  One is to recognize that the individual is often the master of their own fate and quit supporting the idea that others determine your fate and that only the govermnet can protect you and save you from yourself.  You cannot raise a child successfully through dependency and cocooning them in bubble wrap and then expect them to handle the realities of life the first time they step out from under their wing, why would you expect any different from a society raised under the same conditions?

Kids don't get fat from the accessibility of coke- it's because they have parents who refuse to tell their kids no or place limitations.  Regulating coke only relieves dumbass parents from their responsibility of controlling their child's intake of sugar.  But yes, I guess its a hell of a lot easier to regulate a business (who you hold by the short hairs in the form of re-licensing) than to tell your constituency that they need to be better guardians of their kids.


Thank you.
 
2013-02-23 11:54:20 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: sethen320: Generation_D: There's two stories with regard to crime and guns.

1) Over all crime is down, but

2) Random nutjob attacking with assault weapons is way up since 2004.

It can be both. And both can be addressed, if the gun nut crowd would compromise an inch on various common sense regs.

But if they don't, I'd bet the eventual resulting laws will be worse. The gun nut crowd digs in its heels, which forces everyone else to dig in ours. And we outnumber the gun nuts.

Just curious. Do you label everyone who owns a gun as a "gun nut"?

i do.  but then again i'm gay


Call it gay if you want. Blanket statements about people based on likes/dislikes makes you a whiny little biatch.
 
2013-02-24 12:58:11 AM  

PunGent: Dimensio: BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.

Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.

Ironically, our Mass. "permanent" AWB was signed by...

Mitt Romney.

So, back under your bridge.



Whats the difference between assault weapons manufactured before 1994 which you are able to buy sell and own in MA and assault weapons made after 1994 which you can not buy sell or own in MA?

The alternative was an all out ban IIRC.
 
2013-02-24 10:15:39 AM  

Giltric: PunGent: Dimensio: BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.

Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.

Ironically, our Mass. "permanent" AWB was signed by...

Mitt Romney.

So, back under your bridge.


Whats the difference between assault weapons manufactured before 1994 which you are able to buy sell and own in MA and assault weapons made after 1994 which you can not buy sell or own in MA?

The alternative was an all out ban IIRC.


Another Romney fan, eh?

Go on, explain to us how not even TRYING to veto something is "courageous leadership".

Why, the man might've nicked himself on his pen...

The whole point of a Republican governor was to stand UP to the Dems, the way Weld did...not to out-spend and out-legislate the parlor pinks, ffs.
 
2013-02-24 10:42:26 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-24 12:55:08 PM  
Same as saying "Die in place".
There are two and only two effective responses.
"Stampede" or "Run Faster Than The Last Guy".

How many understand "Bonzai"? Works real well against a solo shooter.

How about a law that all students undergo survival training instead of new laws for law abiding citizenry?
Oh. that might really help reduce gun deaths?

Nevermind, this is gungrabbing we play, not saving lives.
 
2013-02-24 12:56:34 PM  

Giltric: PunGent: Dimensio: BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.

Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.

Ironically, our Mass. "permanent" AWB was signed by...

Mitt Romney.

So, back under your bridge.


Whats the difference between assault weapons manufactured before 1994 which you are able to buy sell and own in MA and assault weapons made after 1994 which you can not buy sell or own in MA?

The alternative was an all out ban IIRC.


The difference is "you go with the inch you have, not the mile you want".
 
2013-02-24 12:58:07 PM  

PunGent: Giltric: PunGent: Dimensio: BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.

Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.

Ironically, our Mass. "permanent" AWB was signed by...

Mitt Romney.

So, back under your bridge.


Whats the difference between assault weapons manufactured before 1994 which you are able to buy sell and own in MA and assault weapons made after 1994 which you can not buy sell or own in MA?

The alternative was an all out ban IIRC.

Another Romney fan, eh?

Go on, explain to us how not even TRYING to veto something is "courageous leadership".

Why, the man might've nicked himself on his pen...

The whole point of a Republican governor was to stand UP to the Dems, the way Weld did...not to out-spend and out-legislate the parlor pinks, ffs.


Do you really see a difference in GOP/DFL?
Really?
Big Picture, now.
Really really?
 
2013-02-24 03:00:39 PM  

PunGent: Dimensio: BalugaJoe: They say it was a hoax.

Diane Feinstein is extremely disappointed, however the news should obviously have been a false report as assault weapons are already banned in Massachusetts.

Ironically, our Mass. "permanent" AWB was signed by...

Mitt Romney.

So, back under your bridge.


I am aware of Governor Romney's actions. It does not refute my statements.
 
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