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(BBC)   Bad: Pentagon grounds the entire F-35 fleet. Fark: This is apparently a monthly occurrence now   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 121
    More: Scary, F-35B  
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5819 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2013 at 9:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 02:58:16 PM  
I'll bet the next generation of F-35 airframes doesn't have a cockpit.
 
2013-02-23 03:06:55 PM  
For a cracked engine blade. Made by Pratt & Whitney. Made in Maine, one of our largest defense contractors. Whoops.
 
2013-02-23 03:24:11 PM  

Gsm136: Marcus Aurelius: The Japanese have bought exactly two of them.  Total production estimates have gone from 5000 down to 3500.  And most European countries are eying the Eurofighter as an alternative.  So our allies are not married to this turkey.  We are.

We (UK) are pretty much locked into the F-35. Our new CV's have the ski jump after the government decided against advice of pretty much everyone at the MoD, the US and French to fit Cats and traps.

It's a shame we never seem to buy off the shelf, I imagine we could get some F/A-18's, Rafale or even redesign and navalise the Eurofighter for the cost the F-35, altering the plans and having to fund, design and build a new ASaC platform have cost so far.


Recently some one at the MoD had the sense to change the QE class to use the electromagnetic catapault that the US is developing for its next gen carriers. This would of allowed us to let allied planes use the carriers, use fixed wing radar craft and not just helicopters, buy the much cheaper f35c or even go with the Grippen or Raphael (i expect the French would of sold then at less than cost just to keep people in jobs). This would of added around 10-20% cost to the carrier but we would of saved three or four times that with the planes.

Then BAe's friends in the MoD and Parliament got wind of it and shut it down. Hard. So instead of getting a much better package for less money we have the worse carrier with a crippled plane.
 
2013-02-23 03:49:53 PM  
I would go with zeppelins. Catch 'em totally by surprise.
 
2013-02-23 04:17:56 PM  

Norfolking Chance: Gsm136: Marcus Aurelius: The Japanese have bought exactly two of them.  Total production estimates have gone from 5000 down to 3500.  And most European countries are eying the Eurofighter as an alternative.  So our allies are not married to this turkey.  We are.

We (UK) are pretty much locked into the F-35. Our new CV's have the ski jump after the government decided against advice of pretty much everyone at the MoD, the US and French to fit Cats and traps.

It's a shame we never seem to buy off the shelf, I imagine we could get some F/A-18's, Rafale or even redesign and navalise the Eurofighter for the cost the F-35, altering the plans and having to fund, design and build a new ASaC platform have cost so far.

Recently some one at the MoD had the sense to change the QE class to use the electromagnetic catapault that the US is developing for its next gen carriers. This would of allowed us to let allied planes use the carriers, use fixed wing radar craft and not just helicopters, buy the much cheaper f35c or even go with the Grippen or Raphael (i expect the French would of sold then at less than cost just to keep people in jobs). This would of added around 10-20% cost to the carrier but we would of saved three or four times that with the planes.......


OMG.  HAVE!
It's would HAVE!
/ffs
 
2013-02-23 04:45:24 PM  
$400 billion is being generous. After the cost of development, the upgrades, and repairs, the cost will more likely exceed $1 trillion.
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-02-23 06:01:03 PM  

CluelessMoron: There are a some good arguments for going with the JAS-39/E as well


I knew there was another one but I thought it was German so my quick Google search didn't get any hits.

In looking at the 4 candidates I have to admit that I like the Gripen option. It blows the other options away in up front cost and operating cost (except the Super Hornet but it blows that one away in every other category and is close on cost).

I expect we will end up with the Super Hornet to avoid economic pressure from the US ... but it will be a damn shame. The Gripen fulfill our waning need for an manned fighter force at the best cost/performance ratio.
 
2013-02-23 06:06:04 PM  

Farking Canuck: CluelessMoron: There are a some good arguments for going with the JAS-39/E as well

I knew there was another one but I thought it was German so my quick Google search didn't get any hits.

In looking at the 4 candidates I have to admit that I like the Gripen option. It blows the other options away in up front cost and operating cost (except the Super Hornet but it blows that one away in every other category and is close on cost).

I expect we will end up with the Super Hornet to avoid economic pressure from the US ... but it will be a damn shame. The Gripen fulfill our waning need for an manned fighter force at the best cost/performance ratio.


At least with the Hornet we'll end up building a pretty good amount of the aircraft in Canada, should be a nice boost to our aerospace industry.
 
2013-02-23 11:03:41 PM  

Therion: The F-35 is the Pentagon's most expensive weapons programme. with a cost of nearly $400bn

Remind me again why we have to keep cutting the social safety nets?


Remind me again why nobody listens to libertarians and cuts ALL OF IT?
 
2013-02-23 11:23:59 PM  
Some here have advocated for an air force of nothing by A-10's, and as much as I do love that plane, this is not an option.   Some have advocated the Apache helicopter, and once again, as much as I do love this platform, it ignores the early on problems that grounded it during the Bosnian War.  Problems have seemed to have been resolved and now the Apache is arguably the most capable attack helicopter in service today.

It is my opinion that cancelling the F-22 program was a horrible mistake, especially given the F-35 had not been cleared for combat operations.  That being said, many on this thread have brought up "upgrading" proven airframes such as the F-15. F-16and F-18 to take advantage of the advances made by the F-22 program and maybe even the F-35 program in its infancy.

IMO the main problem with the F-35 program is the rampant outsourcing.  Lockheed should have developed the jet, showed that it works and then and only then outsource production to allied nations.  Too many cooks in the kitchen.... Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered come to mind when thinking about the F-35 program.

It is not too late to restart the F-22 assembly line and share the technology discoveries with the F-15. F-16 and F-18 lines.
 
2013-02-23 11:56:52 PM  

Jarhead_h: Remind me again why nobody listens to libertarians


Because they're ridiculous?

/Sorry. I just find the libertarian POV highly idealistic and wildly impractical most times. Like a high school kid that knows all about the real world.
 
2013-02-24 01:14:24 AM  

Macular Degenerate: For a cracked engine blade. Made by Pratt & Whitney. Made in Maine, one of our largest defense contractors. Whoops.


A cracked engine blade is not necessarily indicative of a design or manufacturing defect.  The engines go through hell, so the blades are going to wear out.  Most likely the fleet was grounded because the regular maintenance didn't detect the problem, so they have to go and review the way that the engines are being inspected.  In almost all cases, that is a non-trivial process done with great discomfort by an technician climbing in and over the engine looking at a small boroscope screen.
 
2013-02-24 01:25:44 AM  

Jarhead_h: Therion: The F-35 is the Pentagon's most expensive weapons programme. with a cost of nearly $400bn

Remind me again why we have to keep cutting the social safety nets?

Remind me again why nobody listens to libertarians and cuts ALL OF IT?


Because that's stupid.
 
2013-02-24 07:02:11 AM  
I conquered the world in Panzer General 2 with only anti-aircraft artillery and no air force. Of course I was the Germans.
 
2013-02-24 08:04:51 AM  
You can't mean the F-35 that they killed the F-22 program for. That F-22 works great... I bet they are going to cut something from the budget and raise taxes over this! AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! !

If you make it idiot proof they just build a better idiot.//
 
2013-02-24 08:11:45 AM  

Fuggin Bizzy: Jarhead_h: Remind me again why nobody listens to libertarians

Because they're ridiculous?

/Sorry. I just find the libertarian POV highly idealistic and wildly impractical most times. Like a high school kid that knows all about the real world.


Thought this was appropriate:

www.leftycartoons.com
 
2013-02-24 08:23:30 AM  

Silverstaff: NewportBarGuy: Fear_and_Loathing: More Warthogs.  CAS baby!

I would fully endorse that expenditure. Though, I would ask that they be attached to Army Aviation. The Air Force just don't understand time-on-station. To have someone that can stick around for a bit longer and be ready to make repeated runs on a target or targets. They prefer their jets and that goes totally against what the A-10 can do.

Hell, I think the entire Air Force should be merged back into the Army, but I know I'll never see that happen.

I'd agree with that.

The USAF has always hated the A-10.  They like supersonic, sleek, high-tech sexy jets.  Fly high and fly fast.  The A-10 is ugly, slow and low-tech. . .and the best damn close air support platform ever built.  It's like a flying tank, both in firepower and durability.  The thing is "death from above" incarnate.

The US Army Aviation community would be all over itself if it got the A-10.  The USAF would be glad to be rid of it, but they'd be resentful that the Army got any more fixed-wing assets than the handful it has now.

Why aren't we cancelling the F-35 as a massive waste of taxpayer money?  Oh yeah, politics.

We should just be updating/upgrading the F-15, F-16 and F-18 designs.  Boeing actually developed a stealth variant of the F-15, the Silent Eagle, as a competitor, but the politics of the F-35 make it nearly unkillable (it's ridiculously inefficient construction is spread out over almost every single state in the union, so pretty much every Congressman gets to say it brings jobs to his state).

Eliminate the F-35, fix the bugs in the life support of the F-22, invest in the F-15 Silent Eagle, and keep upgrading and replacing the F-16 and F-18's in service.

Save lots on defense budget, without having to slash troop pay, naval power (so we can actually send ships to the Gulf if we need to ), or our ability to fight small, regional wars against podunk little countries with the very best in 1970's era Soviet surplus hardware, like o ...


The Marines have their own air assets, seems to work OK for them.
 
2013-02-24 01:19:11 PM  

Silverstaff: Fuggin Bizzy: Jarhead_h: Remind me again why nobody listens to libertarians

Because they're ridiculous?

/Sorry. I just find the libertarian POV highly idealistic and wildly impractical most times. Like a high school kid that knows all about the real world.

Thought this was appropriate:

[www.leftycartoons.com image 650x976]


It's missing a couple, but it's really quite good.

/Like the Hates People type: the "there's too many people in the world" and promotes policies that will kill other people first
 
2013-02-24 03:32:27 PM  

sithon: they sold a bunch of those flying bags of crap to us in Canada as well. the conservatives still won't admit they made a mistake buying them. even though they are killing the pilots.

/they should convert them to drones.


I'm pretty certain the F35 is already drone capable.  At the very least, it was supposed to be.  Who knows if they ever got around to it.
 
2013-02-24 04:48:46 PM  

Kahabut: sithon: they sold a bunch of those flying bags of crap to us in Canada as well. the conservatives still won't admit they made a mistake buying them. even though they are killing the pilots.

/they should convert them to drones.

I'm pretty certain the F35 is already drone capable.  At the very least, it was supposed to be.  Who knows if they ever got around to it.


That will cost another 10 billion or so. Cost-plus from the Beltway Bandits.
 
2013-02-24 06:17:06 PM  

vygramul: Silverstaff: Fuggin Bizzy: Jarhead_h: Remind me again why nobody listens to libertarians

Because they're ridiculous?

/Sorry. I just find the libertarian POV highly idealistic and wildly impractical most times. Like a high school kid that knows all about the real world.

Thought this was appropriate:

[www.leftycartoons.com image 650x976]

It's missing a couple, but it's really quite good.

/Like the Hates People type: the "there's too many people in the world" and promotes policies that will kill other people first


Also, shouldn't the "stoned" square be larger than all the others? ;)
 
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