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(The Detroit_News)   Half of Detroit property owners don't pay taxes. It looks like that's what happens when property taxes are based on the property's value   (detroitnews.com) divider line 64
    More: Interesting, Detroit, Wayne County, Wayne State, University District, DTE Energy, tax fraud, finance director, tax bill  
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1935 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Feb 2013 at 11:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 08:50:53 AM
Sell Detroit to the Chinese and be done with it.
 
2013-02-23 09:37:19 AM
Half of Detroit isn't populated.
 
2013-02-23 09:46:54 AM
FTA:   The News reviewed more than 200,000 pages of tax documents and found that 47 percent of the city's taxable parcels are delinquent on their 2011 bills.

Funny.
 
2013-02-23 10:03:51 AM
The way things are going, fewer and fewer will be able to afford property so the whole scheme is doomed to fail unless.....


We start taking care of the middle class again.
 
2013-02-23 10:18:16 AM

doglover: Half of Detroit isn't populated.


You make that sound like that should be taken into consideration when looking at the math.

Last year Detroit announced they were shutting off half of the cities street lights.  I replied,' what, the half that works'.  Meaning they were just shutting them all off instead of repairing.
 
2013-02-23 10:29:13 AM

doglover: Half of Detroit isn't populated.


That isn't the point.
Reading deep into TFA (by deep, I mean the headline) you find this little gem:

"Half of Detroit property owners don't pay taxes"

And those owners complain that they don't want to pay since they aren't getting the services they want.  Hmmm, sounds like they are a bunch of 1%ers.
 
2013-02-23 10:48:41 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: doglover: Half of Detroit isn't populated.

That isn't the point.
Reading deep into TFA (by deep, I mean the headline) you find this little gem:

"Half of Detroit property owners don't pay taxes"

And those owners complain that they don't want to pay since they aren't getting the services they want.  Hmmm, sounds like they are a bunch of 1%ers.


No, he got it.  Half of Detroit 'property owners' have already abandoned the property for good.  The city hasn't officially taken possession since that would mean they can't go to the creditors and say we're good for the loan because all we got to do is collect all the overdue property taxes.  Recently, Detroit announced they have over something like $250 million dollars in uncollected debt, which includes parking tickets and civil infractions.  Even though some of that debt is over 7 years past due, they don't want to admit that most of that will never be collected.  That doesn't stop them from telling everybody that collecting that debt will help them with their own $297 million debt.  I bet Mayor Bing said "I thought there won't be any math" right after taking office.

/that is why I like the Detroit Free Press
//Flint Journal sucks, just watch the evening news and the paper will match the stories the next day
 
2013-02-23 11:18:08 AM
from another article:
Detroit ranked first among the 50 largest cities in taxes and last among property values in a 2011 study by the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy in Cambridge, Mass. Detroit taxes on a $150,000 house were $4,885, twice the national average of $1,983. The city's average house price, $16,800, was nearly 10 times lower than the next lowest, Mesa, Ariz.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130221/METRO01/302210398
 
2013-02-23 11:18:28 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

I'd not be surprised if most of those were bank-owned and they are welshing on the taxes to leave a nice surprise for the next "customer".
 
2013-02-23 11:24:41 AM

dumbobruni: from another article:
Detroit ranked first among the 50 largest cities in taxes and last among property values in a 2011 study by the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy in Cambridge, Mass. Detroit taxes on a $150,000 house were $4,885, twice the national average of $1,983. The city's average house price, $16,800, was nearly 10 times lower than the next lowest, Mesa, Ariz.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130221/METRO01/302210398


Man, this.  And for all that tax it'll still take the cops an hour to show up to your call of "knife wielding drunk boyfriend chasing down girlfriend and two kids who are now in a stranger's car".

I love the city itself, and the people, but jesus f--king christ any progress made during Archer as far as government functioning goes... sigh.  My uncle owns rentals there and has gone in with incredible amounts of proof that the assessment is far too high (his sister/my aunt *is* a property assessor and does damn thorough research for him).  He hasn't gotten one reduced yet.  He does pay the taxes while he's fighting; maybe that's why they're loathe to reduce the value to its correct amount.  Amazing.
 
2013-02-23 11:31:25 AM
It sounds like a libertarian's paradise.
 
2013-02-23 12:00:43 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: The News reviewed more than 200,000 pages of tax documents and found that 47 percent of the city's taxable parcels are delinquent on their 2011 bills.


We shouldn't be characterizing these people as "scofflaws"; they're intrepid innovators fighting, with their dollars, against the tyrannical inanities of a government gone insane.
 
2013-02-23 12:02:28 PM
"Why pay taxes?"

"It makes me not want to pay,"

"If nobody else is paying, why should I?"

"I'd like to know what is going to be the solution."

"It makes me wonder why I pay my taxes and keep my property up,"


Hey I'm really surprised by these Obama voters expecting someone else to solve all of their problems. Pretty uncharacteristic.
 
2013-02-23 12:03:53 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: The News reviewed more than 200,000 pages of tax documents and found that 47 percent of the city's taxable parcels are delinquent on their 2011 bills.

We shouldn't be characterizing these people as "scofflaws"; they're intrepid innovators fighting, with their dollars, against the tyrannical inanities of a government gone insane.


Now that's funny.
 
2013-02-23 12:06:21 PM

enik: "Why pay taxes?"

"It makes me not want to pay,"

"If nobody else is paying, why should I?"

"I'd like to know what is going to be the solution."

"It makes me wonder why I pay my taxes and keep my property up,"

Hey I'm really surprised by these Obama voters expecting someone else to solve all of their problems. Pretty uncharacteristic.


Threaten to take away their free cellphone if they don't pay their taxes
 
2013-02-23 12:13:09 PM
Surprisingly, I appear to be here before the *niger please* crowd.

/how'd that happen...they sleeping in?
 
2013-02-23 12:54:17 PM

lack of warmth: doglover: Half of Detroit isn't populated.

You make that sound like that should be taken into consideration when looking at the math.

Last year Detroit announced they were shutting off half of the cities street lights.  I replied,' what, the half that works'.  Meaning they were just shutting them all off instead of repairing.


I've always wondered where street lights are metered. If you shut them off, where is the device that shows less consumption so that the bill is smaller?
 
2013-02-23 12:59:24 PM
where i'm from homeowners complain about having $10k in property taxes. the owner will say they should be able to die in the home their family has owned for 100+ years and 10k a year is truly unfair. when you tell them they have a 2 bedroom 1 bath house on 1 1/2 acres and its worth $450k and they could live like a king in many places for that they give a blank stare.you are 65 years old. maybe you should have saved some retirement instead of thinking you entitled to die in the house you were born in because of your warped logic.
 
2013-02-23 12:59:54 PM

Stone Meadow: Surprisingly, I appear to be here before the *niger please* crowd.

/how'd that happen...they sleeping in?


www.troll.me
 
2013-02-23 01:02:42 PM

coco ebert: It sounds like a libertarian's paradise.


And yet again someone deliberately mischaracterizes wanting smaller government as equivalent to advocating anarchy. Libertarians have no problem with cops, street lights, pothole repair, or any of the myriad legitimate functions of government, as long as they're carried out efficiently and in a cost-effective manner.
 
2013-02-23 01:05:54 PM
Detroit is what happens with 5 decades of Liberal Progressive control.
 
2013-02-23 01:07:42 PM
Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.
 
2013-02-23 01:18:03 PM
They just need to implement a "minimum property tax" of $25/year, like my county has, for those of us whose property values are so low that after the homeowner's exemption we owe less than that, or nothing at all.

/A small, old, house... a half-mile from a beach with palm trees.  I'm okay with this.
 
2013-02-23 01:27:24 PM

dbirchall: They just need to implement a "minimum property tax" of $25/year, like my county has, for those of us whose property values are so low that after the homeowner's exemption we owe less than that, or nothing at all.

/A small, old, house... a half-mile from a beach with palm trees.  I'm okay with this.


You live in Hilo?

/misses the tropics of my youth
 
2013-02-23 01:31:08 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.


well said.
 
2013-02-23 01:36:51 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.


You must have missed the house with seven kitchens thread. We're not even close to running out of "other people's" money. There's tons of money out there, all consolidated in the hands of the ultra wealthy. It's just that the wealthy, you know, the people who actually have the means to pay for society, simply aren't. They're buying stuff for themselves and leaving "taking care of society" for someone else to deal with1.

I don't want to hear whining about how poor people don't pay "their share" of taxes when we have people who make hundreds of millions and pay a measly 20% or so because it's all "capital gains".

1That is until some commoner breaks into their gated estate, then all of a sudden, having a government with police, courts, jails, etc. is totally awesome.
 
2013-02-23 01:42:47 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.


Yes it is, tho not for the reasons you claim. The *reason* city after city in America is in the trouble it is is because 40 years ago rapacious corporations started gutting the cities they built their initial fortunes in by closing plants and moving production overseas, leaving behind millions of loyal workers with no incomes to support the cities they live in and nowhere to go for another job to replace that income. But keep telling yourself it's purely the fault of the Libfark nappy-headed brown people who are inherently lazy, corrupt and incompetent. That way you don't have to do anything about it.
 
2013-02-23 01:46:21 PM
 
2013-02-23 01:47:55 PM
Detroit; the realization of the union and liberal dreams.
 
2013-02-23 01:50:51 PM

Nemo's Brother: Detroit; the realization of the union

Globalization and liberalCorporatist dreams.

There, fixed that for you.
 
2013-02-23 02:25:09 PM

lack of warmth: Last year Detroit announced they were shutting off half of the cities street lights. I replied,' what, the half that works'. Meaning they were just shutting them all off instead of repairing.


If the traffic is light enough that they're no longer needed, they SHOULD be shut off.
 
2013-02-23 02:27:32 PM
The late Ivan Smith when asked about the future Rhodesia. Replied , I been to Detroit ,I rather fight than switch.


//Of course they now have the successful model nation of Zimbabwe or as it known as the Detroit of Africa.
 
2013-02-23 03:02:08 PM

dumbobruni: from another article:
Detroit ranked first among the 50 largest cities in taxes and last among property values in a 2011 study by the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy in Cambridge, Mass. Detroit taxes on a $150,000 house were $4,885, twice the national average of $1,983. The city's average house price, $16,800, was nearly 10 times lower than the next lowest, Mesa, Ariz.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130221/METRO01/302210398


Detroit just isn't applying liberal math correctly.  If property taxes were six times the national average, Detroit wouldn't be in any trouble at all.
 
2013-02-23 03:56:24 PM
"It makes me wonder why I pay my taxes and keep my property up," said Kisner, a North Rosedale Park resident and former top finance official for the city and Detroit Public Schools. "I keep asking myself, 'Am I the stupid one?'"

I'm sure you're not the only one, but it's likely you were a part of the problem.
 
2013-02-23 04:12:27 PM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: The late Ivan Smith when asked about the future Rhodesia. Replied , I been to Detroit ,I rather fight than switch.

//Of course they now have the successful model nation of Zimbabwe or as it known as the Detroit of Africa.


This is actually pertinent to a university paper I'm writing about Detroit; can you cite this quote?

/If not, no worries. I'd just love to be able to add a more international flavour to the quotes I'm using.
 
2013-02-23 04:16:12 PM
Incredible amount of derp in this thread. It's a regular tidal wave of alts.
 
2013-02-23 04:36:11 PM

Nemo's Brother: Detroit; the realization of the union and liberal dreams.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This.
 
2013-02-23 05:34:17 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.


could you name one other large city that this is happening to?
and this has been happening to detroit for like 12 billions years now
 
2013-02-23 06:04:23 PM
Detroit was doomed by the stupid.  Somebody posted this in another thread about Detroit, and it always stuck in my mind just how incredibly stupid and short sighted both the American auto makers and the members of the unions were at the time when our auto industry went into decline.

This American Life on PBS:
even though Toyota was offering GM something quite remarkable-- to teach a competitor its secrets, to show them exactly how Toyota achieved such phenomenal reliability-- GM wasn't that interested

Toyota and GM eventually set up a joint auto plant in California in the early 80's so that American management and labor could learn the Japanese way of making quality cars that didn't immediately fall apart, and at that plant both labor and management came to love that system.

So of course, nothing was done with it.

Stupid.
Link goes to a transcript of that episode of This American Life, and although it's not a short read, you really owe it to yourself to learn how things were done under the American system and how they were done under the Japanese system.

Detroit deserved to fail.
 
2013-02-23 06:27:53 PM
You haters do realize that this is what happens when a major shift removes the reason for a large city to exist, right? And it has happened throughout history. Not sure if the Romans blamed the liberals and progressives or not when their city slowly abandoned 90% of its borders. I think it took them 1500 years or so to fill back up. When the leaders of a city have a failure of vision and refuse to forge a new identity, it turns into short term ruins porn and long term archaeological bonanza.
 
2013-02-23 06:30:06 PM
FTA: Delinquency is so pervasive that 77 blocks had only one owner who paid taxes last year.

Unreal. Detroit is unfixable. Keep the central downtown area, bulldoze the rest. Start over.
 
2013-02-23 06:39:25 PM
This thread was a trainwreck of derp. Detroit's tits up because of the librulz, huh? Just that simple? Got it.
 
2013-02-23 06:46:41 PM

Stone Meadow: You live in Hilo?

/misses the tropics of my youth


Yeah.  And hey, the angel with the flaming sword they posted at the airport to keep you from coming back on the direct flight from LAX got cut back to 4 days a week - you know, state budget and all that - so you're safe on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.
 
kab
2013-02-23 06:50:59 PM
Capitalistic efficiency in action.

But by all means continue blaming something else.
 
2013-02-23 06:51:08 PM

namatad: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.

could you name one other large city that this is happening to?
and this has been happening to detroit for like 12 billions years now


Chicago and Pittsburgh. However, the bulk of their problems stem from promised pension obligations that were never funded properly in the first place.

NYC doesn't have these problems, as the unions made sure the pensions were funded correctly a while ago.
 
2013-02-23 08:19:16 PM

dumbobruni: namatad: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Detroit is a microcosm of what's happening in the entire Country.  Liberal run city after city are going down the tubes.  Because despite popular belief, you actually CAN spend yourself out of existence.    What was it that Thatcher said?  Oh yeah.  "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of OTHER people's money."  But whatever ya do, don't even try to convey that message to the Libfark crowd.  They'll have none of it.

could you name one other large city that this is happening to?
and this has been happening to detroit for like 12 billions years now

Chicago and Pittsburgh. However, the bulk of their problems stem from promised pension obligations that were never funded properly in the first place.

NYC doesn't have these problems, as the unions made sure the pensions were funded correctly a while ago.


Chicago. Virtually every major metro area in California.
 
2013-02-23 08:27:24 PM
Look, the state of Michigan agreed to take temp ownership of one of the last remaining potential jewels in Detroit...Belle Isle (google it), fix it up and return it to Detroit in 20 years for the cost of $1 per year.

Currently it's a crack head sanctuary that is about 10 years behind normal maintenance and repair and the city of Detroit is basically about $400mm in debt and has zero money to fix the place up. The Detroit City Council not only didn't agree to this sweetheart deal, they wouldn't even take a look at the proposal because they didn't want "the whitey governor" to own our land. And yes, the Slave/Slave owner analogies were tossed around like party favors.

Meanwhile, Belle Isle has no chance for renovation and will crumble and decay like the rest of Detroit.

fark them. fark them all.
 
2013-02-23 08:59:17 PM
FTFA: :"Why pay taxes?" asked Fred Phillips, who owes more than $2,600 on his home on an east-side block where five owners paid 2011 taxes. "Why should I send them taxes when they aren't supplying services? It is sickening. ... Every time I see the tax bill come, I think about the times we called and nobody came."
 Its almost as if Mr. Phillips doesn't realize how his services are supplied.

He sounds Republican, and has probably used his property tax money to buys guns and start 'prepping.
 
2013-02-23 09:04:07 PM

dbirchall: Stone Meadow: You live in Hilo?

/misses the tropics of my youth

Yeah.  And hey, the angel with the flaming sword they posted at the airport to keep you from coming back on the direct flight from LAX got cut back to 4 days a week - you know, state budget and all that - so you're safe on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.


Cool beans...thanks for the tip!
 
2013-02-23 11:08:41 PM
The only solution
fc05.deviantart.net
 
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