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(Buzzfeed)   Fifteen photographs from a child survivalist training session, an encounter that pairs 9 year-old kids with AK-47s   (buzzfeed.com) divider line 278
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8884 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2013 at 5:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 09:25:33 AM

Notabunny: serial_crusher: max_pooper: Should I be surprised at the number of fat people in those pictures?

Pretty much this. I guess part of their survival plan involves storing up calories for hibernation?

Survival in Florida does not require being able to do a situp, or a pushup, or a chinup, or being able to see your toes.


It is an ancient martial art...taught to the people of Florida by the gods themselves.  It is...the Way of the Manatee.
 
2013-02-23 09:25:33 AM

The Snow Dog: They don't look especially skilled at handling weapons. It also doesn't look like they're being particularly safe with them.


With the glaring exception of handing pre teens loaded semi automatic rifles in an uncontrolled environment, I didn't see anything that would make me flip a biatch at the range, TBH. My only criticism is they carry loaded way, way too much.
 
2013-02-23 09:32:47 AM

mittromneysdog: way south: The purpose of keeping weapons around isn't just for rebellion against the government,

You're right. The purpose of the 2nd Amendment was less to empower citizens to murder law enforcement officers, soldiers, and sailors. Its primary purpose was to guarantee the right of slave states to maintain militias to put down slave rebellions.


splain this Lucy:
Vermont abolished slavery before the American revolution, yet had in their constitution this wording ""That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power."
come on splain that to the gunners and preppers lucy
 
2013-02-23 09:34:06 AM
An "enemy" could easily track these guys by their trail of Cheetos.
 
2013-02-23 09:36:01 AM

mittromneysdog: BraveNewCheneyWorld: "that's different" isn't an argument.

"That's different" is the whole basis of western jurisprudence since probably the Roman Empire. It's all about whether this case is different or the same as the last case like it. Someone should tell every lawyer for the past two and a half millennia that they haven't been making arguments.

And the whole "penis extension" thing.. just makes you look like an asshole who can't think for him/herself.

Looks like someone hit a nerve. Welcome to Fark. In fact, empirical research shows a link between firearms fanaticism and small penis size. Moreover, degree of fanaticism correlates with smallness of penis. Science.


There are fewer and fewer people in these threads who aren't afraid to pull out the old "haha you have a tiny peener, gun nut!!!!" line.   Good for you (and Shadowknight) for keeping at it!  Not many are as brave and strong willed as you.  Bravo.
 
2013-02-23 09:36:20 AM
As bad as these pictures look in terms of crazy gun people... I suspect they are actually more safe than your common range bunny.  Looking closely at the pictures, every rifle has a chamber flag in it.  That means that not a single one of these rifles is loaded, and anybody near one can visually confirm that at a glance.  There's at least one brain somewhere in the bunch.
 
2013-02-23 09:36:48 AM

Nuclear Monk: Notabunny: serial_crusher: max_pooper: Should I be surprised at the number of fat people in those pictures?

Pretty much this. I guess part of their survival plan involves storing up calories for hibernation?

Survival in Florida does not require being able to do a situp, or a pushup, or a chinup, or being able to see your toes.

It is an ancient martial art...taught to the people of Florida by the gods themselves.  It is...the Way of the Manatee.


i had plans to write a book once, where everyone got too fat in Florida, and no one was able to pick up chicks, so they all went gay
and called each other Manatees

i called it the Manatee Project
 
2013-02-23 09:38:28 AM

mittromneysdog: degree of fanaticism correlates with smallness of penis. Science.


since you are apparently a fanatical gun hatter you must have no dick at all you clitless bastard.
 
2013-02-23 09:40:46 AM

GanjSmokr: There are fewer and fewer people in these threads who aren't afraid to pull out the old "haha you have a tiny peener, gun nut!!!!" line.   Good for you (and Shadowknight) for keeping at it!  Not many are as brave and strong willed as you.  Bravo.


I'm not saying anyone who owns a gun, or even is an enthusiast, have self worth or insecurity issues.  I own a few guns myself (though they are back with my brother in the States while we finish up our overseas station here in Spain).  But anyone who takes it to this extreme, and structure their entire life around them, is obviously compensating for something.  Whether it be daddy issues, paranoid schizophrenia, or a small dick, they are doing it for a reason.

It's just easier to go "ha, small dick" than write all that out, though.

/it's also a joke
//untwist your panties, lady
 
2013-02-23 09:41:01 AM
I was more creeped out by "grandpa" sitting with the two little girls in his lap and eyeing a 3rd. hah

As weird as it may seem to some of us -- at least these hillbillies are taking care of their children, teaching them about guns, and general safety, and from their weight -- NOT cooking up meth.

It's all better than the alternative - abandon the kids before they were born, letting tax payers support them, and let them grow up to be little bang bangers in the city, the kind that holds their gun sideways and kills more innocent bystanders than their intended target (*cough* Recent vegas rap shooting*)

Just like the 50's and 60's when everyone had their own little bunker at home because they seriously feared "the atom bomb" - it's the same sort of fear we get to deal with for a decade or two.

Personally -- my belief is that yes, the country is circling the toilet. Government isn't here to help you or give a damn about you. If this shiat hits the fan, nothing wrong with having ways to protect yourself and your family.
 
2013-02-23 09:42:37 AM

BenJammin: The worrisome part is that they consider fellow Americans who disagree with them as the enemy.


No they do not consider a person who disagrees with them as the enemy.
 it is the person who actively is attempting to take their perceived rights away from them who is considered their enemy. if the arguments were on equal footing there would be no fear. But when you have an executive who believes he has the power to make law,  without the consult or consent of Congress,then there will be problems.
 
2013-02-23 09:49:00 AM
Just to add one more thought or two:

You might think it's weird/creepy/dangerous - but as yourself the following:

Are they hurting you in any way?
Are they costing you any time?
Are they costing you any money?
Would you say there might be at least one thing you do or say to your kids that others might not agree with?

I'm not going to judge that groups for doing something they want to do that has absolutely zero effect on others. They might be some of the most honest law abiding "good" people you would ever meet.  In an absolute worst case scenario -- if you were hungry, thirsty, and under attack from some roving gang of bandits - you'd love to have a few of these guys around pictured in the article.

Being prepared -- for any situation in life is something a good majority of people have forgotten about.  Not just talking about some break down of society, but things like retirement, savings, emergency funds, emergency food/water/power.  Most people have taken infrastructure and the idea that someone will "always" be around to bail them out of trouble as granted. Which in any situation is a mistake.
 
2013-02-23 09:49:38 AM

Shadowknight: GanjSmokr: There are fewer and fewer people in these threads who aren't afraid to pull out the old "haha you have a tiny peener, gun nut!!!!" line.   Good for you (and Shadowknight) for keeping at it!  Not many are as brave and strong willed as you.  Bravo.

I'm not saying anyone who owns a gun, or even is an enthusiast, have self worth or insecurity issues.  I own a few guns myself (though they are back with my brother in the States while we finish up our overseas station here in Spain).  But anyone who takes it to this extreme, and structure their entire life around them, is obviously compensating for something.  Whether it be daddy issues, paranoid schizophrenia, or a small dick, they are doing it for a reason.

It's just easier to go "ha, small dick" than write all that out, though.

/it's also a joke
//untwist your panties, lady


I think you just like to fantasize about other people's junk.  You can admit it.  You're among friends here.  There's absolutely nothing at all wrong with it.

In all seriousness, if PersonA sees PersonB doing some activity or owning some item and PersonA thinks "Hmmm, PersonB must have a small penis.", it's not PersonB that has a problem.
 
2013-02-23 09:54:27 AM

violentsalvation: I'm pretty much a gun nut, but these people are weird. I think teaching kids and young adults to shoot and proper firearms safety is important if guns are going to be present in the household. But putting little kids in t-shirts that say they're willing to fight and die for their 2nd amendment rights is pretty sick.


Pretty much all of this.
 
2013-02-23 09:55:57 AM

mittromneysdog: BraveNewCheneyWorld: No, I'm pretty sure you have to back it up with well reasoned arguments as to why "that's different".

Nonetheless, you are wrong that "that's different isn't an argument."


"I will ignore your point and repeat 'you are wrong'"

And sometimes, simple recitation of facts is persuasive enough.

Fair enough, now prove that this is one of those times and "facts" recited were sufficient.

In this case, if the difference between teaching children about firearms safety, and putting a gun in their hand and telling them they need to kill liberals isn't apparent to you, then you're the one with the problem, not the poster.

This is the bulk of the "article"-

2. According to its website, the group aims to "protect and defend our Constitution against all enemy threats" by training people to fight and survive.

Can you tell me where in this sentence they're teaching kids to "kill liberals"?   Oh right, you made that part up.
 
2013-02-23 09:56:55 AM

Bonanza Jellybean: Popcorn Johnny: Blue shirt girl.

...is thirteen.


Old enough for breeding when society breaks down
 
2013-02-23 09:57:03 AM
Yeah, I remember hunter safety as a child.. now, assuming these are hunters and not gun nutsurvivalists, the one big "NO" is see there is that they're all wearing camo and not hunter orange.  Having been in the military, and having had hunter safety training as a kid. that's one of the BIG things we were taught to never do.

"Deer can smell you before they ever see you, so they only eyes you're fooling with that forest camo pattern are human eyes likely to have a gun themselves. Can you trust another hunter not to put rounds down range when he sees movement and thinks there might be a 10-point rack to put on his well?"

Being that most of the weapons shown are assault rifles, I'm reasonably sure these are whack job survivalists training their kids young.   Any seasoned and sane hunter will tell you that you don't need automatics to take down a deer, especially since all that barking's going to cause all the deer to scatter, and the kick's going to ensure that the rest of your rounds go wide
 
2013-02-23 10:02:55 AM

Rreal: Being that most of the weapons shown are assault rifles, I'm reasonably sure these are whack job survivalists training their kids young.   Any seasoned and sane hunter will tell you that you don't need automatics to take down a deer, especially since all that barking's going to cause all the deer to scatter, and the kick's going to ensure that the rest of your rounds go wide


It's amusing how so many people simultaneously claim that semi auto is actually bad for hunting deer, but too good for "hunting people".
 
2013-02-23 10:05:20 AM

Mark Ratner: max_pooper: Should I be surprised at the number of fat people in those pictures?

The camera adds 10 lbs.


The all you can eat buffet adds another 100
 
2013-02-23 10:05:59 AM

Rreal: Being that most of the weapons shown are assault rifles...


There's one AKM in the lot, the rest are SKSes or .22s, hell, they're not even all semi-auto, let alone autos.
 
2013-02-23 10:11:39 AM
Somewhere on the web filed under child soldiers is a photo of an African child circa nine years old holding his AK47. He is looking up at the camera he is wearing a pink set of Tinkerbell wings. His face is expressionless. No childhood for him.

A Google on Emmanuel Jal tells of his lack of boyhood in the hot zones.
 
2013-02-23 10:18:51 AM
Looks like the nine year old was learning with a .22. The same thing we were learning with as 8-9 year olds in boy scouts. Oh noes people wearing camo, camping in the woods and teaching the kids to shoot. In other words, meh.
 
2013-02-23 10:21:29 AM
Amazing. If those kids were African, this would be considered a crime against humanity... recruitment of child soldiers. Congratulations America.
 
2013-02-23 10:21:53 AM

Rreal: Being that most of the weapons shown are assault rifles, ...


Instead of just counting the same SKS five times since it shows up in multiple pictures, let's actually break down the rifles in the pictures.

There is:
(1) AR-15
(1) SKS with a brown Tapco Stock
(1) SKS with a wood stock
(1) SAR-1 (AK Clone)
(1) Marlin .22
(1) Unknown .22
(1) .22 lever rifle
(1) Ruger 10/22

That means there are as many squirrel guns in these photos as there are scary "assault rifles"

Here's the real trick for people that saw the pictures, but didn't actually look at them.  I've already noted that everyone seems to have missed the chamber flags... which didn't stop some people from ranting about "children handling dangerous loaded weapons".... but I dare anyone to find a spare magazine on any of the people carrying detachable magazine firearms.  Empty pouches every where.  I'm willing to bet there isn't a single round of ammunition anywhere close by.
 
2013-02-23 10:27:36 AM
This actually looks kind of fun. I'm kind of interested in learning about survival skills and weapons training. Of course this stuff would be used to fend off looters for a day or to in the aftermath of a Katrina like storm or a riot, not some BS magic polar reversal or evil big gubment takeover.
 
2013-02-23 10:28:42 AM
Survivalists are just immature men that never grew out of playing army.
 
2013-02-23 10:29:41 AM
Firearms safety: good.
Insane paranoid "survival" indoctrination: bad.
Chick in the blue shirt: not bad.

/yes, thank you, I'll have a seat over there
//not that old
///slashies!
 
2013-02-23 10:31:14 AM
morganguyton.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-23 10:33:52 AM

jehovahs witness protection: serial_crusher: max_pooper: Should I be surprised at the number of fat people in those pictures?

Pretty much this. I guess part of their survival plan involves storing up calories for hibernation?

And every time a camera crew heads to the ghetto, you see fat people of a different color "hawg" the cameras. Fat people have many other traits they share no matter what part of society they come from.


Reading just two posts from you has actually ruined my entire Saturday.

I actually think I need to go shower now to feel clean again.
 
2013-02-23 10:35:52 AM

Shadowknight: GanjSmokr: There are fewer and fewer people in these threads who aren't afraid to pull out the old "haha you have a tiny peener, gun nut!!!!" line.   Good for you (and Shadowknight) for keeping at it!  Not many are as brave and strong willed as you.  Bravo.

I'm not saying anyone who owns a gun, or even is an enthusiast, have self worth or insecurity issues.  I own a few guns myself (though they are back with my brother in the States while we finish up our overseas station here in Spain).  But anyone who takes it to this extreme, and structure their entire life around them, is obviously compensating for something.  Whether it be daddy issues, paranoid schizophrenia, or a small dick, they are doing it for a reason.

It's just easier to go "ha, small dick" than write all that out, though.

/it's also a joke
//untwist your panties, lady


No, it's bush league and makes us look bad.  You're like an Uncle Tom of rational people.  Stop it.
 
2013-02-23 10:35:54 AM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
*snort*
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
 
2013-02-23 10:36:20 AM

accelerus: I was more creeped out by "grandpa" sitting with the two little girls in his lap and eyeing a 3rd. hah

As weird as it may seem to some of us -- at least these hillbillies are taking care of their children, teaching them about guns, and general safety, and from their weight -- NOT cooking up meth.

It's all better than the alternative - abandon the kids before they were born, letting tax payers support them, and let them grow up to be little bang bangers in the city, the kind that holds their gun sideways and kills more innocent bystanders than their intended target (*cough* Recent vegas rap shooting*)

Just like the 50's and 60's when everyone had their own little bunker at home because they seriously feared "the atom bomb" - it's the same sort of fear we get to deal with for a decade or two.

Personally -- my belief is that yes, the country is circling the toilet. Government isn't here to help you or give a damn about you. If this shiat hits the fan, nothing wrong with having ways to protect yourself and your family.


So what you're saying is at least they're not black?

Oh wait, sorry, you're from Texas. Our views on the world will be so insanely different it's actually not worth even trying to talk to one another about this.
 
2013-02-23 10:40:13 AM

GanjSmokr: In all seriousness, if PersonA sees PersonB doing some activity or owning some item and PersonA thinks "Hmmm, PersonB must have a small penis.", it's not PersonB that has a problem.


It's not the object being owned.  It's the vigorous need to let everyone they come in contact with know that they have it and how much they love it and OMG IT'S JUST SO GREAT TO BE A PATRIOT WITH A GUN FARK YEAH I GOT A GUN!

It's the attitude around it, not the object itself.  But keep up your straw man.
 
2013-02-23 10:42:22 AM

Click Click D'oh: Rreal: Being that most of the weapons shown are assault rifles, ...

Instead of just counting the same SKS five times since it shows up in multiple pictures, let's actually break down the rifles in the pictures.

There is:
(1) AR-15
(1) SKS with a brown Tapco Stock
(1) SKS with a wood stock
(1) SAR-1 (AK Clone)
(1) Marlin .22
(1) Unknown .22
(1) .22 lever rifle
(1) Ruger 10/22

That means there are as many squirrel guns in these photos as there are scary "assault rifles"

Here's the real trick for people that saw the pictures, but didn't actually look at them.  I've already noted that everyone seems to have missed the chamber flags... which didn't stop some people from ranting about "children handling dangerous loaded weapons".... but I dare anyone to find a spare magazine on any of the people carrying detachable magazine firearms.  Empty pouches every where.  I'm willing to bet there isn't a single round of ammunition anywhere close by.


I'm less concerned about the kids being around guns - with or without ammo - than I am about the 10 year old (?) in a t-shirt that says he's willing to kill anyone who threatens to take away his guns. That is some seriously farked up shiat right there. Indoctrinating children into the belief that there will come a time when you have to murder people who don't share your political views is pretty depressing. Play with guns, and do it safely, but don't turn kids into violent little warmongers.
 
2013-02-23 10:44:18 AM

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: No, it's bush league and makes us look bad.  You're like an Uncle Tom of rational people.  Stop it.


Fair enough.  It was pretty unnecessary, I suppose.  I'll just continue to call them dangerously paranoid and compensating for something horribly missing in their lives and/or personality.
 
2013-02-23 11:01:54 AM

Bonanza Jellybean: Popcorn Johnny: Blue shirt girl.

...is thirteen.


My reaction to scrolling down...

3. Including children.

"Huh? I dont see any kids, is that one of those baby backpacks? Didnt know those came in camo. Niiice tits though."

4.

"Goddamnit."
 
2013-02-23 11:09:21 AM

misanthropologist: I'm less concerned about the kids being around guns - with or without ammo - than I am about the 10 year old (?) in a t-shirt that says he's willing to kill anyone who threatens to take away his guns. That is some seriously farked up shiat right there. Indoctrinating children into the belief that there will come a time when you have to murder people who don't share your political views is pretty depressing. Play with guns, and do it safely, but don't turn kids into violent little warmongers.


Would you have a problem with a kid in a t-shirt that stated he's willing to kill anyone who tries to reintroduce slavery?
 
2013-02-23 11:20:39 AM

cfletch13: Survivalists are just immature men that never grew out of playing army.


And often times they were never in the Army.
 
2013-02-23 11:22:47 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: misanthropologist: I'm less concerned about the kids being around guns - with or without ammo - than I am about the 10 year old (?) in a t-shirt that says he's willing to kill anyone who threatens to take away his guns. That is some seriously farked up shiat right there. Indoctrinating children into the belief that there will come a time when you have to murder people who don't share your political views is pretty depressing. Play with guns, and do it safely, but don't turn kids into violent little warmongers.

Would you have a problem with a kid in a t-shirt that stated he's willing to kill anyone who tries to reintroduce slavery?


Yes, I would. Because the problem is not the defense of a constitutional amendment, but rather the threat of using violence to defend it. Also, there's a subtle but very important difference between "I'll kill anyone who tries to take away my rights" and "I'll defend to my death against anyone trying to take away my rights" (as in the famous quote by Voltaire "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"). I'm willing to die defending my family, but I'm far less willing to kill to defend my family, to the point that I would do pretty much whatever possible to avoid having to kill. The t-shirt this little kid was wearing in the picture is a celebration of his willingness to kill. That's gruesome.
 
2013-02-23 11:30:48 AM

misanthropologist: BraveNewCheneyWorld: misanthropologist: I'm less concerned about the kids being around guns - with or without ammo - than I am about the 10 year old (?) in a t-shirt that says he's willing to kill anyone who threatens to take away his guns. That is some seriously farked up shiat right there. Indoctrinating children into the belief that there will come a time when you have to murder people who don't share your political views is pretty depressing. Play with guns, and do it safely, but don't turn kids into violent little warmongers.

Would you have a problem with a kid in a t-shirt that stated he's willing to kill anyone who tries to reintroduce slavery?

Yes, I would. Because the problem is not the defense of a constitutional amendment, but rather the threat of using violence to defend it. Also, there's a subtle but very important difference between "I'll kill anyone who tries to take away my rights" and "I'll defend to my death against anyone trying to take away my rights" (as in the famous quote by Voltaire "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"). I'm willing to die defending my family, but I'm far less willing to kill to defend my family, to the point that I would do pretty much whatever possible to avoid having to kill. The t-shirt this little kid was wearing in the picture is a celebration of his willingness to kill. That's gruesome.


Good for you that you're trying to be holier than thou, but even the Dali Lama has said that violence is sometimes necessary.
 
2013-02-23 11:32:21 AM

max_pooper: Should I be surprised at the number of fat people in those pictures?


There's some "patriot militia training" videos on YouTube.  It's the easiest, most idiot-proof "cover me while I move!" week-three-of-basic-training tactical movements, and these fatties are getting absolutely smoked.  It would be funny if they weren't seriously crazy.
 
2013-02-23 11:32:38 AM
Give a 10 year old a gun and you make a happy kid for a day.
Teach a 10 year old to shoot a gun and you have a soldier for life.

Since I have some small experience with 10yo soldiers, I am getting a kick,,,
 
2013-02-23 11:35:11 AM

Sgt Otter: max_pooper: Should I be surprised at the number of fat people in those pictures?

There's some "patriot militia training" videos on YouTube.  It's the easiest, most idiot-proof "cover me while I move!" week-three-of-basic-training tactical movements, and these fatties are getting absolutely smoked.  It would be funny if they weren't seriously crazy.


If you can find any way of getting the calorie challenged to run around in the woods, you are doing very well.
And with their kids,,, winner!

Sorry Nanny Fine, this gets a green light.
 
2013-02-23 11:41:36 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-23 11:42:01 AM

Rreal: Yeah, I remember hunter safety as a child.. now, assuming these are hunters and not gun nutsurvivalists, the one big "NO" is see there is that they're all wearing camo and not hunter orange.  Having been in the military, and having had hunter safety training as a kid. that's one of the BIG things we were taught to never do.

"Deer can smell you before they ever see you, so they only eyes you're fooling with that forest camo pattern are human eyes likely to have a gun themselves. Can you trust another hunter not to put rounds down range when he sees movement and thinks there might be a 10-point rack to put on his well?"

Being that most of the weapons shown are assault rifles, I'm reasonably sure these are whack job survivalists training their kids young.   Any seasoned and sane hunter will tell you that you don't need automatics to take down a deer, especially since all that barking's going to cause all the deer to scatter, and the kick's going to ensure that the rest of your rounds go wide


So you say a bunch of things to imply that you know about guns... and then go all derp about assault rifles and fully automatic rifles... proving that you don't.

Nice.
 
2013-02-23 11:43:51 AM
I began to read this yesterday and was left with one impression before I stopped; the interval between members of the patrols is far too short.

In my minds ear I can still hear, "keep your interval" and not in a nice voice.

It looks like fun, I hope they are enjoying it.
 
2013-02-23 11:46:13 AM
Remember when the Teabaggers did not understand the words they were using and the title was selfadopted?

Same, same derp when you see "Assault Rifle", or it's kissing cousin "Assault Weapon".
Run up a flag, 'cause it marks a complete idiot on the subject of weapons.
 
2013-02-23 11:50:11 AM
I take a stand.

ALL GUNS ARE ASSAULT GUNS!

'Cause that is what every gun is for.
Well, a few paperweights,,,
Picking out the word "assault" to fearmonger the weak and stupid is simply criminal and needs to be prosecuted.
 
2013-02-23 11:51:44 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-23 11:52:41 AM

AtlanticCoast63: 5. Conspiracy theories are not theories when there are conspiracies... but given that, it is quite apparent from our founding documents that there are safeguards in place to prevent or minimize the potential of conspiracies as much as possible.

Well, kinda this.  I don't at all believe that there is a secret meeting weekly in the crypt of the US Capitol where Our Liberal Overlords meet to plan our demise.  What I do think has happened is that:

(1)we've allowed the Government to wander so far away from its original intent that in order to continue to do their job and earn their share of the pie, they have to come up with ways to justify their existence - and that means that things they come up with are going to start infringing on our rights.  And unfortunately, that leads us to (2):  I really believe that to a great extent, the Government no longer exists to serve the people, but rather to perpetuate it's own existence and power.  When we have an entrenched political class that sadly seems to believe in power and control for its own sake, this is what we're going to get.- political showmen who will do anything for immediate gain rather than long-term thinking.

Do I believe that we need to go all Minuteman? No, no no, a thousand times no.  All we need to do is start voting people out instead of returning them to Congress for decades at a time.

There is no evil intent here - simply human nature.

/Heinlein picks up his Razor and nods


Pournelle's Iron Law at work
 
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