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(News.com.au)   Does your grieving process last more than two weeks? Congratulations, you have a mental disorder   (news.com.au) divider line 116
    More: Asinine, mental illness, Santa Clara University, Australia and New Zealand, psychiatrists, American Psychiatric Association, DSM, Australian Psychological Society  
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2985 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Feb 2013 at 5:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 07:23:27 AM

Summoner101: And thanks Skail for the TF!

I still won't sleep with you :P


I think I'll survive. :\

scruffynerfherder: My mother passed away and it took me about two years to be at peace. I guess I'm a basket case then, huh? In hindsight, there is no way I would want a pill to supress or cover up my emotions.


I've actually gone off my meds that I was on beforemy wife passed away, now.  I can't say everything rushed up on me (I was already a wreck, despite the medications), but my moods have become more volatile, inasmuch as they change very quickly from semi-normalcy to grief and back.  I'm not that crazy about the medicines but, to be honest, I *would* like to have some of the illegal ones be legalized for these purposes.
 
2013-02-23 07:41:27 AM
This is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  I can't imagine that anyone involved has ever lost anyone themselves, or if they have, they're most likely a sociopath.
 
2013-02-23 08:02:37 AM

Freudian_slipknot: rustypouch: BigJake: I would expect most non-mentally ill people to grieve for a lot longer than that for certain events. A parent losing a child, for instance. A pet, maybe not so much.

Well, look at how easy it is to replace them.

New pets are practically given away, and the ones they can't give away are killed.

There's just a bit more in raising a kid.

You're kidding, right?  Replacing a kid is just one drunken fark away.  High schoolers manage to do it without trying.  People have to actually form strategies and medications to NOT have more kids. The paperwork at the pound is more involved than that.  I've never heard of someone drunk texting an ex and ending up with a new puppy from it.


It has a lot to do with who your ex is... or perhaps WHAT your ex is...
 
2013-02-23 09:26:32 AM
Yeah, it's called PTSD.

My son passed away on Jan 14, 1999. I still miss him. I don't particularily give a sh*t if people think whatever. I don't. I miss him and won't ever stop missing him. PTSD is a life long sentence.
 
2013-02-23 09:28:53 AM

Aello: I lost my mom on the 5th of this month. She was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer that had spread to her liver in Nov. I cried, raged and hated everyone and everything before she passed.  Now that she's gone, I feel strange because I haven't broken down,  I haven't cried and what not. I am just relieved that she's not in pain anymore and that she actually told us to celebrate her life instead of mourn.


I know that feel. Lost my dad to colon cancer on Super Bowl Sunday and my first thought was 'at least it's over'.

/now I have a weird fixation on Like A Stone by Audioslave because of everything he went through
//never liked mourning - too hard to stop once you start, imo
 
2013-02-23 09:35:05 AM
Good jorb, Dr. Casey Anthony.
 
2013-02-23 10:13:37 AM
This is an excerpt from statement on the grief exclusion changes by Kenneth Kendler who, aside from having an awesome porn star name, is a very smart guy and much more rational than Dr. Aussie Kneejerk:

"Second, the other major psychiatric diagnostic system used in the world - the International 
Classification of Diseases - has never had a grief exclusion criterion for major depression.

Third, a broad range of evidence agreed to by both sides of this debate shows that there are little to no 
systematic differences between individuals who develop a major depression in response to 
bereavement and in response to other severe stressors - such as being physical assaulted and raped, 
being betrayed by a trusted spouse whom you learn has been unfaithful or a beloved child whom you 
are told is dealing drugs, having your doctor tell you that your breast or prostate biopsy for cancer is 
positive or the loss of your treasured job.

So the DSM-IV position is not logically defensible. Either the grief exclusion criterion needs to be 
eliminated or extended so that no depression that arises in the setting of adversity would be 
diagnosable...

Fourth, the vast majority ofindividuals exposed to grief and to these other terrible misfortunes do not 
develop major depression...

Finally, diagnosis in psychiatry as in the rest of medicine provides the possibility but by no means the 
requirement that treatment be initiated.


So, in short, there are many logical and scientifically supported reasons for the changes that Dr. Iwantattention could have read about before doing his whole 'the sky is falling' bit.
 
2013-02-23 10:34:10 AM

Summoner101: Skail: sno man: lose a baby and get back to me with your list in two weeks, big guy.

Or a spouse...

Or a parent or a best friend or a mentor.

A loss of some that's close to you or you highly regard, especially when it's unexpected or sudden, is going to make an impact.  Putting a time limit on someone's grief or feeling like there's something wrong with that person for grieving is only going to make it harder for them to actually work through it, fully cope with it, and eventually, hopefully move on.  It's not an on/off switch, it's a day to day battle towards peace.  Those around someone grieving thinking otherwise only makes the person trying their best to cope work that much harder because now they're grieving and have people forcing them to meet expectations they may not yet be able to fully handle.

And still, at the end of the day, some losses you never really recover from.


There are those of us that feel that pain with you.  It's just the way it is.
 
2013-02-23 12:05:38 PM

if_i_really_have_to: Oh this bullshiat again. Is this the fourth or fifth article that Fark has greenlighted on the same rubbish? "LOL I don't know anything about how mental illness is diagnosed but this sounds dumb so I'm just going to believe it LOL WTF LOL." I'm not sure what Prof Larson (not a medical doctor, by the way) has against it, and as a professor in psychology he should know better.


People are so afraid of being labeled with a psych diagnosis that they go nuts about the situation.

Furthermore, it's stupid--being able to put a label on something helps.  If nothing else it lets you know what's usually done in the situation so you don't go around wondering if something has been missed.

I do have a problem with DSM-V but it's in the other direction.  I don't like that they cut out the lower end of Asperger's.  Under DSM-IV it covered those who could be helped by being taught how to work around their limits.  Under DSM-V those who are capable of functioning in society no longer get the diagnosis even if they will have substantial impairment.  (Holding down a job is a lot easier than finding a romantic partner.)  Note that I am *NOT* referring to it being folded into autism--I agree with that change.  The line between them was too fuzzy.

TheMysteriousStranger: Thanks. I was going to ask on that in a comment since it seemed just too absurd to call someone mentally ill if they are sad for two weeks after their child dies.

So basically what the guidelines are referring to is not being sad or having pain over the loss. It is talking about severe inability to function above and beyond what most of us experience?

/Words often don't mean exactly the same thing in professional-speak as they do ordinary vernacular English.


Exactly.

J. Frank Parnell: Depends how close someone is to you. Married couples who lose someone they've been with for decades often go through those criteria for much longer than 2 weeks.

/The ones who don't were secretly waiting for them to die.


Or went through much of the process during their partner's terminal illness.

LowbrowDeluxe: And if it is negatively impacting your ability to function in society, wouldn't that be something that needs fixing through either talking it out, or group hugs, or whatever it ends up taking? I just don't understand how or why so many people go apeshiat trying to tear psychology down over stupid shiat like this article.


Exactly.  It might be a pretty common reaction to sufficient stress but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem.  Everyone has a breaking point, life sometimes throws more at you than you can hold and you need the shrinks to try to put things back together.

Do the needful: We lost our granddaughter last year. Go ahead and put me down for the mental disorder then. I still have my moments when I break down and I doubt that will ever go away.


This isn't about having moments of breakdown.  It's about breakdown being your normal situation.

Superjoe: This strikes me more as a justification to get meds to people who are in a really horrible place sooner, rather than waiting months for their problems to become "official". The reason for diagnosing illness is so it can be treated. People attach too much stigma to the concept of mental illness. If you want to be able to get treatment, medicinal or otherwise, to help you through your grief you should be able to.


And a diagnosis doesn't automatically mean meds, either.  We do have a problem with too much reliance on psych meds--they're cheaper than other options.  That does *NOT* mean the diagnosis is wrong, though!
 
2013-02-23 12:08:41 PM
The old timey interval for mourning was 1 year. You wore the widow's weeds for that year, kept your knees together, and then put them away on the first anniversary and went on with life.

Sometimes the old ways work the best.

I did date a guy whose wife had died 3 years before. Every time I mentioned something, he'd start his next sentence with her name and describe how much better that experience was with her. He'd never been to Amsterdam, so I brought that up a lot. He probably thought I was a stoner. I finally got smart and started taking him places he'd never been with her. After three dates like that (I could see the gears turning as he desperately tried to thread her into the conversation), he dumped me for another widow so he could sit and go on about his late wife. I understand she dumped him because she got tired of it. Punchline was the guy was an MD psychiatrist. Mother always wanted me to date a doctor. The next doctor I dated was a freshly divorced PhD electrical engineer. Much, much better.
 
2013-02-23 12:31:53 PM
snake_beater, I can't listen to any music that we would listen to when I was little. Not yet....but I have been listening to a lot of jazz funeral/second line music.  Momma was born and raised in NOLA so it just seems appropriate.
 
2013-02-23 12:35:52 PM

Contents Under Pressure: The old timey interval for mourning was 1 year. You wore the widow's weeds for that year, kept your knees together, and then put them away on the first anniversary and went on with life.

Sometimes the old ways work the best.

I did date a guy whose wife had died 3 years before. Every time I mentioned something, he'd start his next sentence with her name and describe how much better that experience was with her. He'd never been to Amsterdam, so I brought that up a lot. He probably thought I was a stoner. I finally got smart and started taking him places he'd never been with her. After three dates like that (I could see the gears turning as he desperately tried to thread her into the conversation), he dumped me for another widow so he could sit and go on about his late wife. I understand she dumped him because she got tired of it. Punchline was the guy was an MD psychiatrist. Mother always wanted me to date a doctor. The next doctor I dated was a freshly divorced PhD electrical engineer. Much, much better.


Wasn't this an episode of Sex and the City?
 
2013-02-23 03:00:11 PM
what I have been told is that the ratio is one to one. You grieve for a child or a spouse one year for every year you were in a close knit relationship. I thought this was bullshiat until I had to grieve the loss of a spouse. It really is true. Your grief progresses slowly until one day you are reminded of that person and the thoughts cause no pain at all. the timing was dead on.
 
2013-02-23 03:51:34 PM

QT_3.14159: Um, my experience is that two YEARS is the minimum before you begin to break out of the fog of a significant loss.  Don't get me wrong, that doesn't get you happy, just usually tired of feeling crappy and ready to begin experiencing life again.

/16 years in May...


So much this...  good vibes aimed in your direction.
 
2013-02-23 09:34:36 PM
I have more faith in the ICD than the DSM to be honest.
eg. Financial Ties between DSM-IV Panel Members and the Pharmaceutical Industry (PDF)
 
2013-02-25 09:26:31 AM
"Medication, not psychotherapy, will be the major treatment because most people see their GP when they have an issue."

Yeah.
 
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