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(News.com.au)   Does your grieving process last more than two weeks? Congratulations, you have a mental disorder   (news.com.au) divider line 116
    More: Asinine, mental illness, Santa Clara University, Australia and New Zealand, psychiatrists, American Psychiatric Association, DSM, Australian Psychological Society  
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2985 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Feb 2013 at 5:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 04:56:12 PM  
"We are essentially labelling grief a disorder. Now it becomes a target for drug development."

/DUH
 
2013-02-22 04:59:57 PM  
So... Republicans?
 
2013-02-22 05:05:07 PM  
Welcome to the New America!!! Where everyone has a mental disorder therefor no one has constitutional rights!!!


Hshahshahaha!!!!'n
 
2013-02-22 05:19:30 PM  

ourbigdumbmouth: Welcome to the New America!!! Where everyone has a mental disorder therefor no one has constitutional rights!!!


Hshahshahaha!!!!'n


The inability to RTFA should be a mental disorder.
 
2013-02-22 05:28:28 PM  
Suddenly I feel a lot less alone.
 
2013-02-22 05:28:34 PM  
I would expect most non-mentally ill people to grieve for a lot longer than that for certain events. A parent losing a child, for instance. A pet, maybe not so much.
 
2013-02-22 05:28:40 PM  
Wow. The current standard is 2 months. Crap. I've never lost a spouse, but I think I would grieve for a lot longer than 2 months.

I think if you grieve for less than 2 weeks you might have a mental disorder.
 
2013-02-22 05:29:40 PM  
Good grief!
 
2013-02-22 05:31:52 PM  
Human nature is complicated. Our beliefs and our thoughts are complicated.

I don't think anybody would disagree with that. Now introduce a machine which transcribes your thoughts and beliefs onto a screen.

Everybody can see what you think or believe. And it's all public access. Give it a decade or two. It's coming.
 
2013-02-22 05:32:57 PM  
Remember when Bindi Irwin was rebounding so quick after Steve got dead and everybody was weirded out by that?

Whatever happened to her?
 
2013-02-22 05:33:28 PM  
BigJake I would expect most non-mentally ill people to grieve for a lot longer than that for certain events. A parent losing a child, for instance. A pet, maybe not so much.

Depends on the child. Depends on the pet.
 
2013-02-22 05:39:03 PM  
Get over it.
 
2013-02-22 05:39:43 PM  
People still have emotions?

Really??

There's a pill for that.
 
2013-02-22 05:48:15 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Remember when Bindi Irwin was rebounding so quick after Steve got dead and everybody was weirded out by that?

Whatever happened to her?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindi_Irwin#Post_Steve_Irwin.27s_death
 
2013-02-22 05:48:58 PM  
Working on 27 years myself.
 
2013-02-22 05:50:15 PM  

BigJake: I would expect most non-mentally ill people to grieve for a lot longer than that for certain events. A parent losing a child, for instance. A pet, maybe not so much.


Well, look at how easy it is to replace them.

New pets are practically given away, and the ones they can't give away are killed.

There's just a bit more in raising a kid.
 
2013-02-22 05:52:27 PM  
You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand.  They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are.

If we lose them, we lose ourselves.

I don't want my pain taken away!  I need my pain!
 
2013-02-22 05:56:37 PM  

ourbigdumbmouth: Welcome to the New America!!! Where everyone has a mental disorder therefor no one has constitutional rights!!!


Hshahshahaha!!!!'n


news.com.au

Australia, the New America!
 
2013-02-22 06:02:13 PM  
Too many doctors, not enough patients
 
2013-02-22 06:03:25 PM  
Just walk it off you pussy.
 
2013-02-22 06:04:21 PM  

RedVentrue: People still have emotions?

Really??

There's a pill for that.


www.coldfusionvideo.com
/not obscure
 
2013-02-22 06:05:36 PM  

UseUrHeadFred: You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand.  They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are.

If we lose them, we lose ourselves.

I don't want my pain taken away!  I need my pain!


easily the worst in the franchise... but the quote is on point.
 
2013-02-22 06:07:03 PM  

SuperTramp: "We are essentially labelling grief a disorder. Now it becomes a target for drug development."

/DUH


I haz a sad.
I can haz happy pills now?
 
2013-02-22 06:10:03 PM  
Hell, it took me about 1 year to get over my brothers death.  Hell I still see some stuff that reminds me of him and pushes me over the edge.
 
2013-02-22 06:12:24 PM  

cgraves67: Wow. The current standard is 2 months. Crap. I've never lost a spouse, but I think I would grieve for a lot longer than 2 months.

I think if you grieve for less than 2 weeks you might have a mental disorder.


Try losing a child.  The authors of the DSM 5 can burn in hell, if only there were such a place.  If you can make a telephone function in two weeks I'd think you were ahead of the curve.  There must be a drug based agenda to minimizing the time frame...
 
2013-02-22 06:13:18 PM  

rustypouch: BigJake: I would expect most non-mentally ill people to grieve for a lot longer than that for certain events. A parent losing a child, for instance. A pet, maybe not so much.

Well, look at how easy it is to replace them.

New pets are practically given away, and the ones they can't give away are killed.

There's just a bit more in raising a kid.


You're kidding, right?  Replacing a kid is just one drunken fark away.  High schoolers manage to do it without trying.  People have to actually form strategies and medications to NOT have more kids. The paperwork at the pound is more involved than that.  I've never heard of someone drunk texting an ex and ending up with a new puppy from it.
 
2013-02-22 06:13:25 PM  
Two minutes of hate is all the emotion a balanced person should require, wouldn't you agree, citizen?
 
2013-02-22 06:18:05 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: ourbigdumbmouth: Welcome to the New America!!! Where everyone has a mental disorder therefor no one has constitutional rights!!!

Hshahshahaha!!!!'n

news.com.au

Australia, the New America!


Guess you didn't read the article either:
In a keynote address at an Australian Psychological Society conference in Melbourne on Saturday, Prof Larson will express his anger about the American Psychiatric Association's new diagnostic manual, DSM 5, which is used in many countries including Australia and New Zealand.
 
2013-02-22 06:23:29 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So... Republicans?


Aaaaaaaand we're done.
 
2013-02-22 06:39:23 PM  
My wife's grandfather is due to pass any day now (diagnosed with stomach cancer April 2012, feeding tube a couple months ago, kidneys started failing this week). I'm not looking forward to dealing with her grief, or her mother's. It's going to be bad. I buried 4 grandparents and my mother by the time I was 25. She's still got all of hers, and this is going to be the first death in her family in over a decade.

Can I get some meds?
 
2013-02-22 06:39:33 PM  
Um, my experience is that two YEARS is the minimum before you begin to break out of the fog of a significant loss.  Don't get me wrong, that doesn't get you happy, just usually tired of feeling crappy and ready to begin experiencing life again.

/16 years in May...
 
2013-02-22 06:42:17 PM  
Then we have the other end of the spectrum.  I had a friend who's therapist told him it was "perfectly normal" that he was still obsessed with his ex-fiance two and a half years after she dumped him.
 
2013-02-22 06:53:12 PM  
WTF I couldn't imagine being fine and dandy after two weeks if my wife died.
 
2013-02-22 06:57:57 PM  
"We are essentially labelling grief a disorder. Now it becomes a target for drug development."

Nice... They pick good ones, and I'll find a way to be permanently "grieving".

Seriously though, two weeks is ridiculously short. My SIL had a miscarriage a few years ago, then had a preemie that was stillborn, and 6-9 months later, she was still talking as if the baby was alive and well. I talked to a friend who is in medical school, and her father, who is a doctor, and they both told me that for the most part, it was still ok, as long as her behavior wasn't dangerous to herself or others. 2 weeks would have been a joke. I think she was still carrying the urn from room to room at that point.
 
2013-02-22 06:58:26 PM  
Coming up on the third anniversary of my daughter's death.

/Yep, still depressed.
 
2013-02-22 06:59:11 PM  
Oh this bullshiat again.  Is this the fourth or fifth article that Fark has greenlighted on the same rubbish?  "LOL I don't know anything about how mental illness is diagnosed but this sounds dumb so I'm just going to believe it LOL WTF LOL."  I'm not sure what Prof Larson (not a medical doctor, by the way) has against it, and as a professor in psychology he should know better.

Here is the criteria (one of many) they seem to be talking about changing:

"The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation."

This is a "ruling out" criteria.  Before you even get to this criteria (E) you have to have passed through criteria A-D.  The first criteria (A) is to have five or more of these for more than two weeks:

- depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
- markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)
- significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day.
- Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day
- psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)
- fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
- feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)
- diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)
- recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide

AND THEN it also must "cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. "

Think about the person closest to you that you grieved for.  Did you have AT LEAST FIVE of these symptoms for more than two weeks?  Having five or more of the above symptoms would actually be a really extraordinary grief reaction, outside "the norm".  This is a person unable to work or interact, literally prostrate and wasting away from grief.  In all honesty how many people have your ever known in your life to react that severely to a bereavement for more than two weeks, let alone more than two months?  If you actually stop and think you'll probably realise most people continue to operate pretty well even with a close bereavement.  They might feel extremely sad, and cry a lot, and mope around thinking about the person they lost, but otherwise they usually continue to go about their day quite soon after the bereavement.
 
2013-02-22 06:59:59 PM  
Poor Mr. Bojangles
 
2013-02-22 07:04:38 PM  
Well, I guess I'm a statistic now.  Great.  So let me have the drugs I think might actually help instead of mere benzodiazepines. Until then, quit wasting my time.

/Stupid FDA..
 
2013-02-22 07:05:07 PM  
I feel sad. Where's my money???
 
2013-02-22 07:12:21 PM  

if_i_really_have_to: Oh this bullshiat again.  Is this the fourth or fifth article that Fark has greenlighted on the same rubbish?  "LOL I don't know anything about how mental illness is diagnosed but this sounds dumb so I'm just going to believe it LOL WTF LOL."  I'm not sure what Prof Larson (not a medical doctor, by the way) has against it, and as a professor in psychology he should know better.

Here is the criteria (one of many) they seem to be talking about changing:

"The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation."

This is a "ruling out" criteria.  Before you even get to this criteria (E) you have to have passed through criteria A-D.  The first criteria (A) is to have five or more of these for more than two weeks:

- depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
- markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)
- significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day.
- Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day
- psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)
- fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
- feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)
- diminished ability to think or concentrate, ...


lose a baby and get back to me with your list in two weeks, big guy.
 
2013-02-22 07:18:37 PM  

sno man: lose a baby and get back to me with your list in two weeks, big guy.


Or a spouse...
 
2013-02-22 07:20:50 PM  
Yeah, when I lost someone very important to me, I grieved for over a year. I guess that makes me crazy.
 
2013-02-22 07:27:55 PM  

cgraves67: Wow. The current standard is 2 months. Crap. I've never lost a spouse, but I think I would grieve for a lot longer than 2 months.


I did, and I did.
 
2013-02-22 07:28:54 PM  
You guys are good at making me sad right before I go to bed.  Aren't we supposed to just drink so we can't remember these things?
 
2013-02-22 07:33:07 PM  
I wrote an article on complicated grief for an upcoming academic collection.  Essentially, the psychology of it pertains not necessarily to grieving, but to the near-obsession with the greiving process, which may include getting "stuck" in a stage of grief for far too long.  It can also include things like calling your dead friend's voicemail several times a day, or constantly carrying around a trinket of the deceased, and so on.  What makes this so tricky is that the psychologist must recognize when the grieving process has switched from healthy to obsessive.  This will vary widely for different people, but at least the warning signs are out there.
 
2013-02-22 07:38:15 PM  

Skail: sno man: lose a baby and get back to me with your list in two weeks, big guy.

Or a spouse...


Or a parent or a best friend or a mentor.

A loss of some that's close to you or you highly regard, especially when it's unexpected or sudden, is going to make an impact.  Putting a time limit on someone's grief or feeling like there's something wrong with that person for grieving is only going to make it harder for them to actually work through it, fully cope with it, and eventually, hopefully move on.  It's not an on/off switch, it's a day to day battle towards peace.  Those around someone grieving thinking otherwise only makes the person trying their best to cope work that much harder because now they're grieving and have people forcing them to meet expectations they may not yet be able to fully handle.

And still, at the end of the day, some losses you never really recover from.
 
2013-02-22 07:41:42 PM  

Summoner101: Skail: sno man: lose a baby and get back to me with your list in two weeks, big guy.

Or a spouse...

Or a parent or a best friend or a mentor.

A loss of some that's close to you or you highly regard, especially when it's unexpected or sudden, is going to make an impact.  Putting a time limit on someone's grief or feeling like there's something wrong with that person for grieving is only going to make it harder for them to actually work through it, fully cope with it, and eventually, hopefully move on.  It's not an on/off switch, it's a day to day battle towards peace.  Those around someone grieving thinking otherwise only makes the person trying their best to cope work that much harder because now they're grieving and have people forcing them to meet expectations they may not yet be able to fully handle.

And still, at the end of the day, some losses you never really recover from.


Word.  I have doubt I'll ever recover, and I thought myself resilient.  I'd hate to deal with what others are...
 
2013-02-22 07:45:35 PM  

Skail: sno man: lose a baby and get back to me with your list in two weeks, big guy.

Or a spouse...


Scruffinator: You guys are good at making me sad right before I go to bed.  Aren't we supposed to just drink so we can't remember these things?


Don't be sad... It's not about sad, well okay at first it is, but it's more about love, ultimately.  All the booze does is delay getting to that realization...
 
2013-02-22 07:48:03 PM  
I lost my mom on the 5th of this month. She was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer that had spread to her liver in Nov. I cried, raged and hated everyone and everything before she passed.  Now that she's gone, I feel strange because I haven't broken down,  I haven't cried and what not. I am just relieved that she's not in pain anymore and that she actually told us to celebrate her life instead of mourn.
 
2013-02-22 07:51:46 PM  
Sorry Skail, I had more of a fist bump, your not alone kinda post in mind in response to your post...  the new interface still farks up my best intentions from time to time.
 
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