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(Reason Magazine)   Dear Media: Stop mixing up "Preppers" with "Survivalists" we are two very different groups. One group prepares in case of the worst and are sane people and the other are survivalist gun nuts   (reason.com) divider line 408
    More: Obvious, Jesse Walker, Rick Perlstein, morally superior, shooting sports, Wal, political action, Thomas Hobbes, Sandy Hook  
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6813 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 5:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-23 03:06:14 AM

whidbey: EvilRacistNaziFascist: whidbey: They're not worried about a pandemic. They think Obama is some kind of ultimate socialist whose Presidency is the culmination of 50 years of "big government."  Never mind that some of his predecessors were some of the worst human beings on the planet.

That Obama's predecessors were awful does not mean that he himself is not (even more) awful.

Dude, inheriting a Preperation H Factory wouldn't help you at this point.


Is that all you have? whippy...
 
2013-02-23 03:08:01 AM
I've spoken to people who were actually there, as opposed to reading about it from a thousand miles away, and they all agree that the greatest purveyors of violence, by far, were the police.

also, this:
miami.media.indypgh.org
 
2013-02-23 03:22:22 AM

gweilo8888: And yes, I know my quote says "take away orders", but that's take away orders made by a chef who's already had half a decade and change of training and observation. And it's a take away order collected from a sushi restaurant by the customer and made fresh to order for the customer.

It's not a mass-produced, poorly-prepared roll made by a guy fresh out of his job at McDonalds, who got 48 hours of training from another guy who amazed him with his six months experience, stuck under cling film and bunged in a fridge for eight or ten hours.

Supermarket sushi often isn't even made with proper fish. It's made with the stuff scraped off the bones after the real sushi-grade meat is gone, even the lowest-grade stuff. Read: mechanically separated. Yes, that is much the same process used to made hot dogs and nuggets, and that should tell you everything you need to know about its "quality".

Citation:  http://www.nola.com/food/index.ssf/2012/04/supermarket_sushi_tuna_lin k ed.html


Fair point.  But your earlier post sounded a bit like Japanophile snobbery, which gets tedious (only real Japanese can make real sushi, only Japanese can be sumo wrestlers, kendo is the only real form of fencing, the katana is the best melee weapon ever, etc)
I like Japan, but they're not immune to snobbery.
 
2013-02-23 03:24:51 AM

EvilRacistNaziFascist: whidbey: They're not worried about a pandemic. They think Obama is some kind of ultimate socialist whose Presidency is the culmination of 50 years of "big government."  Never mind that some of his predecessors were some of the worst human beings on the planet.

That Obama's predecessors were awful does not mean that he himself is not (even more) awful.



I'm glad to see you've found friends to help you feel good about your problems. Keep it up, as long as it's working for you. Everyone has a hole to fill. Yours is is in your head. Probably another in your heart, but who's counting?
 
2013-02-23 03:31:50 AM

whidbey: EvilRacistNaziFascist: whidbey: They're not worried about a pandemic. They think Obama is some kind of ultimate socialist whose Presidency is the culmination of 50 years of "big government."  Never mind that some of his predecessors were some of the worst human beings on the planet.

That Obama's predecessors were awful does not mean that he himself is not (even more) awful.

Dude, inheriting a Preperation H Factory wouldn't help you at this point.


I have little idea what this is supposed to mean, but I can at least tell that it doesn't bear even the slightest resemblance to a rational argument. By the way, it's preparation.
 
2013-02-23 03:38:34 AM

rappy: EvilRacistNaziFascist: whidbey: They're not worried about a pandemic. They think Obama is some kind of ultimate socialist whose Presidency is the culmination of 50 years of "big government."  Never mind that some of his predecessors were some of the worst human beings on the planet.

That Obama's predecessors were awful does not mean that he himself is not (even more) awful.


I'm glad to see you've found friends to help you feel good about your problems. Keep it up, as long as it's working for you. Everyone has a hole to fill. Yours is is in your head. Probably another in your heart, but who's counting?


Wow, all you have are insults. We can discuss Smith, Hume, Bastiat, Marx, Engles, Even Athenian democracy vs Spartan top down socialism or the Roman Republic vs Rome as an empire... Socialism vs Individualism has been a war for a long time. The Shaolin were persecuted by multiple times by the Chinese governments.

The slaughter by government has always exceeded,  the fight of the individual...
 
2013-02-23 03:41:09 AM

RanDomino: I've spoken to people who were actually there, as opposed to reading about it from a thousand miles away, and they all agree that the greatest purveyors of violence, by far, were the police.

also, this:
[miami.media.indypgh.org image 671x518]


May I ask why these two news items are continually trotted out as examples of racism when they were written by entirely different people? You might have a point about hypocrisy and possibly even racism if the same correspondent had identified one Katrina victim as "looting" items and the other as "finding" items -- though even then it wouldn't have proven anything more than the hypocrisy or racism of that single person.
But when two different people are giving their opinions of the acts involved, it is hardly surprising that they have arrived at two different conclusions. The only way that you can work yourselves up into a frenzy of self- righteousness over this is if you first presume that the anonymous reporters involved are both white, and then presume that white people partake of some kind of collective hive mind when it comes to race. This is what passes for advanced left- liberal thought, I suppose.
 
2013-02-23 03:44:37 AM

WordyGrrl: This is my survival stash: a package of noodles that I've been carting around during various house moves for the past 20-some years. Because if financial disaster strikes and all I can afford to eat is Ramen, at least it'll be the good kind from the Korean store.
[www.ezionmarket.com image 300x300]


Yes.

/yes.
 
2013-02-23 03:46:42 AM

rappy: I'm glad to see you've found friends to help you feel good about your problems. Keep it up, as long as it's working for you. Everyone has a hole to fill. Yours is is in your head. Probably another in your heart, but who's counting?


Dear me, the mindless Obama fanboys are out in full force tonight... you'd think at least they'd have a rational point or two to make, but it's all accusations of heartlessness and haemorrhoids! I suppose this passes for advanced thought among them, the poor bastards.
 
2013-02-23 03:47:21 AM

semiotix: Why not buy things on credit? If everything goes to hell tomorrow, I want to be sitting on a shiatload of stuff I bought on credit, don't I? Like, stuff I could never afford if I weren't maxing out my credit cards.

I'm just saying, it sounds like what she's prepping for is that society won't collapse.


If I die a billion dollars in debt, well, I am dead, wtf do I care and I got to spend a billion dollars.
But expecting rational thought from preppers is probably not rational of us.
 
2013-02-23 03:48:01 AM

spaten: The slaughter by government has always exceeded,  the fight of the individual...


EvilRacistNaziFascist: Dear me, the mindless Obama fanboys are out in full force tonight..



You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense
 
2013-02-23 03:52:57 AM

rappy: spaten: The slaughter by government has always exceeded,  the fight of the individual...

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Dear me, the mindless Obama fanboys are out in full force tonight..


You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense


Sure it's all Common Scene, collectivist sponsored terror:

c3e308.medialib.glogster.com
 
2013-02-23 03:57:52 AM

rappy: You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?


Have you had a stroke? Are you reading from Finnegans Wake? Maybe it's just past your bedtime.
 
2013-02-23 04:26:36 AM

RanDomino: duenor
Any internet search, on any reputable academic catalog will return you plenty of evidence rumors regarding the levels of violence during katrina.

FTFY


Attempting rational, evidence-based discourse with you is impossible. Rather than research, you resort to base denial and clever single-word replacements that are meaningless. Well, it's a free country and you aren't required to be prepared. Have it your way. I'll prefer to not be a squealing victim.
 
2013-02-23 04:30:39 AM

RanDomino: I've spoken to people who were actually there, as opposed to reading about it from a thousand miles away, and they all agree that the greatest purveyors of violence, by far, were the police.

also, this:
[miami.media.indypgh.org image 671x518]


I can't tell for sure as I wasn't there. But in one it looks like people are getting what they need; in another it seems like a guy is filling a trash bag with as much goodies as he can carry off.
 
2013-02-23 04:50:30 AM

EvilRacistNaziFascist: whidbey: EvilRacistNaziFascist: whidbey: They're not worried about a pandemic. They think Obama is some kind of ultimate socialist whose Presidency is the culmination of 50 years of "big government."  Never mind that some of his predecessors were some of the worst human beings on the planet.

That Obama's predecessors were awful does not mean that he himself is not (even more) awful.

Dude, inheriting a Preperation H Factory wouldn't help you at this point.

I have little idea what this is supposed to mean, but I can at least tell that it doesn't bear even the slightest resemblance to a rational argument. By the way, it's preparation.


Like you had a rational argument to begin with.

And by the way, it's humor.Something you clearly cannot appreciate.
 
2013-02-23 04:51:27 AM

EvilRacistNaziFascist: the mindless Obama fanboys are out in full force tonight.


*plonk*
 
2013-02-23 04:56:45 AM

whidbey: EvilRacistNaziFascist: the mindless Obama fanboys are out in full force tonight.

*plonk*


You still haven't broken any arguments, But

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-23 05:02:45 AM

TerminalEchoes: It's comforting to know that if something catastrophic really did happen, 95% of Farkers would be dead, but their pretentiousness would probably live on.


thingist.com
 
2013-02-23 05:14:46 AM

Oblio13: Our Attorney General wants the citizenry disarmed so badly that he smuggled weapons to Mexican drug cartels and tried to blame it on us. Our President is a former Constitutional law professor who is able to rationalize assassinating citizens abroad. Even small-town police departments are militarizing. Homeland Security just bought 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammunition. Emails and phone calls are being monitored. Warrantless searches are common. The legal mechanisms are in place for indefinite detentions without trials. Anticipating a ban, people are buying "assault weapons" as fast as they can be manufactured. They aren't buying them because they're going to turn them in. Part of me says, "It can't happen here". Another part of me says, "If I were seeing this in another country, I'd say both sides were preparing for civil war". I used to wonder if I was just being paranoid. Now I think that anyone who can't see a gathering storm is willfully blind. Being prepared can't hurt, and it's cheap insurance.


 You're not the only one noticing these things.

 I have relatives that have zero interest in guns, and when they were told what the current purchasing stats are in casual conversation (and being familiar with Fast and Furious from people who told them about it) have come to the same conclusion.

 The times are more interesting than any of us would like right now.

/hopefully it'll blow over...but not going to hold my breath right now.
 
2013-02-23 05:41:20 AM

duenor: Peppermint Rose: The prepper or survivalist people I know are so ineffective in day to day life they live in a fantasy world. I'm not talking about some water, some food and some guns. I'm talking about we're preparing for the end of the world nut jobs. They can't keep a job, balance a checkbook have no friends but when the big bad gubmint (from which they derive most of their income) enacts the plan to kill them off then they'll finally be the successful popular person important person they were meant to be. It's a really sad and unhealthy way to live.

That is because the non-mentally-unwell survivalists have the good sense to not let others know (other than close friends and family) what they have at home. The biggest gun safe in the world isn't as secure as nobody thinking that anything is even there.

As this thread shows, there are plenty of people whose disaster survival plan consists mostly of joining a mob and taking what they want by brute force.


I think an important part of determining whether or not the person is crazy is the kind of scenario they are preparing for and then whether their plans in regard to that scenario are actually reasonable. I don't think anyone would argue that a person who lives in an area where the power regularly goes out in the winter is crazy for having a generator, a supply of canned food, batteries, lanterns, fresh water, etc and so forth. That is a reasonable, likely thing they are preparing for, and wanting to be prepared for an outage that lasted a couple of weeks instead of a couple days isn't unreasonable. That could realistically happen.

Preparing a full on bunker for the hitler commie obama godless heathen UN socialist deathpanel zombie apocalypse however is already crazy even before you got to the bunker part. That's part of the breakdown here, many of these people are preparing for things that are simply not likely to happen, and have a deep disconnect with reality.
 
2013-02-23 05:57:54 AM
Hmmm. A distinction with no practical value to normal people.
 
2013-02-23 06:12:57 AM

duenor: Where did you get the idea that preppers intend to shut themselves away from society? They just don't want to be victims. Most have other prepper friends and in the event of a disaster they will share resources and help each other rebuild.


Perhaps the views I've gotten are biased for effect/controversy/drama, but everything I've seen seems to indicate the majority of preppers are not socially minded friends&neighbors types, but hide in the wilds of Montana types. Admittedly, I've not been looking too closely, but the impression I'm getting is that a) they will not be sharing resources, and b) they are not even remotely prepared to rebuild.

They have lots and lots of MREs and dehydrated water and ammunition and so on; but based on what I've seen and heard, the place I'M going to take over when the apocalypse happens is going to be a hardware and garden supply store. These folks are going to be ready for the immediate breakdown, perhaps, but they will be SOL when their bunker begins to leak, or they need nails and bolts and WD-40 for their bulletproof house, and they start to run out of wild plants and want to grow food in the thin and rocky soil of their urban backyard.

They're not prepared. As I said, one gal I happened to catch on that dumb show last week was all set to hike out of NYC in case of a hurricane attack, but hadn't bothered to check if she could actually do it on foot as planned in the time allotted (she couldn't); and another guy who had his family all set to go from the same city with two-way radios and timed routes in and out of the city had not checked to see if his (very expensive) radios would work down in the city. Lo and behold--the cityscape seriously f*cked with reception and made his radios nearly worthless. Meantime, since his scenario was fear of nuclear/biological attack, the "prep-checker" asked him if he knew how to be sure he wasn't walking into the potential nuclear fallout. The guy had never thought about it--and staying upwind of an attack in Central Park added ten hours to his "escape plan."

My entire prep plan consists of staying put, staying quiet, riding out the initial anarchy, and then quietly acquiring what I need from whatever is still standing. And if it looks like the world is really going to end, I know the long-range markers to look for, and I'll be in Northern Nevada at least two weeks in advance.
 
2013-02-23 07:27:48 AM

olddinosaur: Oblio13: Our Attorney General wants the citizenry disarmed so badly that he smuggled weapons to Mexican drug cartels and tried to blame it on us. Our President is a former Constitutional law professor who is able to rationalize assassinating citizens abroad. Even small-town police departments are militarizing. Homeland Security just bought 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammunition. Emails and phone calls are being monitored. Warrantless searches are common. The legal mechanisms are in place for indefinite detentions without trials. Anticipating a ban, people are buying "assault weapons" as fast as they can be manufactured. They aren't buying them because they're going to turn them in. Part of me says, "It can't happen here". Another part of me says, "If I were seeing this in another country, I'd say both sides were preparing for civil war". I used to wonder if I was just being paranoid. Now I think that anyone who can't see a gathering storm is willfully blind. Being prepared can't hurt, and it's cheap insurance.

You are a wise man.  I have seen the same things, in much greater detail, for a much longer period of time.

Governments do not go quietly away when they are no longer needed, and if there is a bad financial crisis, they WILL find a way to feed themselves, no matter whose feet they step on.  Also, our government is like a big snake with the head cut off: the tail does not know it is dead yet, and keeps thrashing around.  If the economy goes to hell in a handbasket, they WILL take as much as they want, no matter how much you think you might need.  If that means your children starve, that is just plain tough.

You've also got somewhere north of 50 million parasites who cannot feed themselves even in good times; what will they do when things really get bad?


And people wonder why I think we'd all be better off if natural selection were still allowed to work on humans. Keeping every retarded, crippled, farked up human alive because "humans are sacred" or some bullshiat is what has led us to this state.
 
2013-02-23 07:55:47 AM
Prepper.
www.al-sharq.com
 
2013-02-23 08:42:27 AM
Really, I think the problem is that they think these are primarily descriptors of ideology; that being called a prepper/survivalist means "Conservative Nutjob." The truth is, "Prepper/Survivalist" more describes that you believe in some low-order doomsday scenario and spend a lot of time/money acquiring the goods/skills to survive it, to a level that the rest of society just thinks is odd.

Meanwhile, yes, a vast majority of these preppers/survivalists are right-wing nutjobs. Not all of them, but most. But really, you're complaining about a common usage of a word with implications...where the definition ABSOLUTELY fits you, but you dislike the implications. Oh well. Good luck trying to change English. You're welcome to try, but don't expect much.
 
2013-02-23 08:49:22 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: It's the difference between preparing for a sudden, but manageable disaster (fire, tornado, flood, etc.) and preparing for the chaotic collapse of civilization.


This.

I used to live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Due to the risk of earthquakes it was perfectly sensible to have basic stuff like food and water to last a few weeks, sleeping bags and a tent, a generator, chainsaw, and some stabilized fuel, the wrenches for turning off gas and water, etc. I also did some recreational and competitive shooting, so there was already a couple guns and some ammo in the safe. We had some basic plans like locations where we could meet if we were unable to remain at the house, who to call in an emergency (e.g. family members both in California and in other states), copies of important documents like insurance policies, etc. I like to think that's well on the side of "reasonably prepared for a disaster likely to affect the area" without crossing into the realm of "crazed survivalist". Other than staying alive and reasonably comfortable after a disaster, our main thought was that we didn't want to be a burden on rescuers or relief organizations who could instead be helping people in greater need.

It turns out that we mostly used the generator and fuel when winter storms would hit the area and knock out power. Keeping the sump pump in the basement running helped prevent significant property damage on our property and a neighbor's (without the pumps running the basements of our houses would flood and they were new to the area and didn't consider that before the first storm struck). Keeping the fridge cold was nice too: nothing like a cold beer in the middle of a big storm.

/not really concerned about the collapse of civilization, as we'd all be pretty much boned then
 
2013-02-23 08:53:42 AM

LanceDearnis: But really, you're complaining about a common usage of a word with implications...where the definition ABSOLUTELY fits you, but you dislike the implications.


Well, people who don't save their money can rightly be called wastrels, too, but what does name-calling accomplish for either side?
 
2013-02-23 09:01:54 AM

duenor: I never said I live in NO. I don't. ...

Indeed, I don't see how you can choose to believe that cops killed blacks for trying to walk out of NO (something I haven't heard of, but certainly plausible) and yet do not want to believe (or even recognize as plausible) that aid workers (my friends included) could have been shot at in spite of both references and my own description.


I'm not surprised that you, embedded in your racist survivalist fantasy bubble, have never heard of the Danziger Bridge shootings. Many gun nuts denied the initial reports up until 5 officers were convicted and received long prison sentences, and many still are unaware, deny it happened, or actually support the cops' actions.

That is the only instance of Katrina violence with enough evidence to prosecute, no matter what rumors your imaginary friends on the internet repeat.
 
2013-02-23 10:09:18 AM

foxyshadis: Sometimes you just want to eat rice and fish in a nice little package. What do you have against rice and fish?


Nothing.
 
2013-02-23 10:10:55 AM
I'm a Christian if only because I want God to "accidentally" the whole state.


That's mighty "Christian" of you to believe in a god soley so that his "wrath" could be brought down on peope who may have only moved to Cali for their jobs, etc.

/// The FSM frowns upon your shenanigans ! Ramen.
 
2013-02-23 10:14:35 AM

Krieghund: One of my favorite things about Los Angeles are all the little hole in the wall sushi joints here. Sushi doesn't have to be a big production. You can just step into a mom and pop place and get a roll. And if there's a nice park or something across the street, you can take it out and eat it there. Personally, I think it's best eaten ASAP, so I wouldn't take it far.

Folks that think ordering omakase is the only way to eat sushi actually come as less sophisticated than they realize.


Eh. I was just trying to put a damper on what would turn into a provincial slapfight between two people who don't even really care much about the topic, followed by the inevitable arrival of phony know-it-alls throwing out contrarian bullsh*t.  T
 
2013-02-23 10:38:46 AM

edmo: Which is which?


Hey, where's that picture even from? I've seen it floating around on the web but never known who the drooling inbreds in it are.
 
2013-02-23 10:50:05 AM

untaken_name: mesmer242: Letting your family guilt you into hoarding months of supplies?

Why is it that you believe it is "hoarding"? You know, the government spent your tax money to make sure they have adequately stocked shelters, just in case. They have years' worth of everything, just sitting around, just in case. Is the federal government a hoarding prepper? If their behavior is acceptable, why is it unacceptable for a private individual to act in the same manner? Also, we all have choices to make in life. If one person chooses to spend all their money on worthless crap, are they "hoarding" worthless crap? If you spend your money on beer, cigarettes, and strippers while someone else spends theirs on food, medical supplies, toilet paper, etc, haven't you both spent your money in the manner you each chose? Why is the guy who actually has something to show for it supposedly bad? I just don't understand people's mindsets sometimes.


If you're barely making ends meet, and are putting MREs on your christmas wish list, then it's hoarding. That's, in fact, why this came up at all in conversation with the person I was talking about - they wanted me to gift them this stuff for christmas. If your emergency preparations are such that I hear about it, then it's overboard. If you have the space and money, do what you want. But if it becomes an obsession, a lifestyle, or if you ask me for help with your preparations... there's something wrong with that.

It would take you about two seconds to click on my profile and realize the chances of me wasting my money on alcohol, cigarettes or strippers are pretty much zero. The extra money in our household goes in to our child's college fund, which seems much more likely than a scenario where I need months of food and water in the house. A week's worth? Sure, that could be worthwhile. But I'm not going to walk around telling people about it. And I'm not going to self identify as a prepper. I'm just going to keep the pantry full. That's the difference I was pointing out.
 
2013-02-23 11:53:45 AM

untaken_name: LanceDearnis: But really, you're complaining about a common usage of a word with implications...where the definition ABSOLUTELY fits you, but you dislike the implications.

Well, people who don't save their money can rightly be called wastrels, too, but what does name-calling accomplish for either side?


That whether you're a 'Prepper' or a 'Survivalist' by their definitions, I'm going to think you a nutjob either way...

...And that the only difference to me, in my mind about their labels, if it implies conservative or not. And I don't really think any political labels should be 'dirty words', so...

(And, by the way, I don't mean preparing for calamities is ridiculous; I'm saying that if you worry so much you feel the need to make sure you can grow your own food, you ARE overdoing it.)
 
2013-02-23 01:19:11 PM

jfarkinB: olddinosaur: You've also got somewhere north of 50 million parasites who cannot feed themselves even in good times

Nice way to characterize retirees and veterans. You'll be offing yourself when you hit Social Security age, then, right?


Sooner would be better....
 
2013-02-23 01:20:22 PM
The thing that preppers seem to have cornered the market on, as evidenced by every thread on the matter ever? Whiny-assed passive aggressive victimhood.
 
2013-02-23 01:30:43 PM

rappy: spaten: The slaughter by government has always exceeded,  the fight of the individual...

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Dear me, the mindless Obama fanboys are out in full force tonight..


You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense


It's the same person. Put them both on ignore, I do bid you.
 
2013-02-23 02:10:53 PM
www.gazillionmovies.com
 
2013-02-23 02:46:14 PM

HairBolus: duenor: I never said I live in NO. I don't. ...

Indeed, I don't see how you can choose to believe that cops killed blacks for trying to walk out of NO (something I haven't heard of, but certainly plausible) and yet do not want to believe (or even recognize as plausible) that aid workers (my friends included) could have been shot at in spite of both references and my own description.

I'm not surprised that you, embedded in your racist survivalist fantasy bubble, have never heard of the Danziger Bridge shootings. Many gun nuts denied the initial reports up until 5 officers were convicted and received long prison sentences, and many still are unaware, deny it happened, or actually support the cops' actions.

That is the only instance of Katrina violence with enough evidence to prosecute, no matter what rumors your imaginary friends on the internet repeat.


I find it fascinating that this is the third time you've taken to calling me a racist, on meds, fantasizing... all the while refusing to acknowledge criminal activity in the wake of disasters except where it's precipitated by police (so that it fits your skewed view of the world).
You, HairBolus, are an idiot.
 
2013-02-23 03:08:51 PM
First of all: Zombies will never happen. Seriously, I am seeing more and more young men "preparing for the zombie apocalypse" without a hint of irony. They need to know that zombie attack is an impossible thing, and that Max Brooks' survival-porn isn't based in reality.

Second: Gryfalcon has it right. Stay quiet, stay put, and then go out and salvage when the dust settles.

Third: If the more extreme survivalists have it right, and the government (new or old) starts going door-to-door rounding up people for imprisonment or execution, there's not much you can do about it. They're ALWAYS going to be better-armed, better staffed, and better organized than you. You may have an arsenal in your shelter, but they have tanks, bombs, planes, helicopters, missiles, and no problem surrounding you and burning you to death. If the weak-ass LAPD can do it to a mad-dog killer with military training and an deep understanding of police procedures, the army you're defending against will have no problem turning you into barbecue if they suspect you're going to put up a fight. You're not Mad Max, and this is the real world. There are a lot of ways to end you before you get to use all your black market toys. Simply put: You'll be outnumbered and you'll go down. If you feel like you need to go down fighting, that's fine... Just don't have any illusion that you're going to Rambo your way out of it.
 
2013-02-23 03:09:36 PM

MrSteve007: One thing that I wish more people would get into is Community Emergency Response Teams (CERT). It's a US Government/Citizencorps program, designed specifically to get "trained" citizens to be able to communicate, coordinate and help first responders in a time of need.

The classes are excellent, typically taught by your local emergency management and firefighters, and pretty damned cool.

[www.keizerfire.com image 320x240]

Our local programs coordinate with the state's fire training center, so we get to experience actual (but simulated) backdraft and flame rollover situations. They train in triage, first-aid, heavy lifting (1-ton "jersey barriers" with prybars and cribbing) building clearing and marking, emergency communications, disaster site mass-casualty setup points, community evacuations, chemical fire/smoke recognition, even optional classes in structural inspections. The shiat is pretty rad, free, and you get to meet all your local first responders. I highly recommend it.


 My work sponsored one of those a few years ago. I took it. It was awesome! We got to do our final day simulation in the remains of a 40 year old abandoned small town hospital. It was perfect!

/definitely recommend it too.
 
2013-02-23 03:19:28 PM

LanceDearnis: That whether you're a 'Prepper' or a 'Survivalist' by their definitions, I'm going to think you a nutjob either way...


Well, that sounds like the worst consequence that could possibly ever happen in any world ever. I can't believe anyone would risk that.
 
2013-02-23 03:22:37 PM

mesmer242: untaken_name: mesmer242: Letting your family guilt you into hoarding months of supplies?

Why is it that you believe it is "hoarding"? You know, the government spent your tax money to make sure they have adequately stocked shelters, just in case. They have years' worth of everything, just sitting around, just in case. Is the federal government a hoarding prepper? If their behavior is acceptable, why is it unacceptable for a private individual to act in the same manner? Also, we all have choices to make in life. If one person chooses to spend all their money on worthless crap, are they "hoarding" worthless crap? If you spend your money on beer, cigarettes, and strippers while someone else spends theirs on food, medical supplies, toilet paper, etc, haven't you both spent your money in the manner you each chose? Why is the guy who actually has something to show for it supposedly bad? I just don't understand people's mindsets sometimes.

If you're barely making ends meet, and are putting MREs on your christmas wish list, then it's hoarding. That's, in fact, why this came up at all in conversation with the person I was talking about - they wanted me to gift them this stuff for christmas. If your emergency preparations are such that I hear about it, then it's overboard. If you have the space and money, do what you want. But if it becomes an obsession, a lifestyle, or if you ask me for help with your preparations... there's something wrong with that.

It would take you about two seconds to click on my profile and realize the chances of me wasting my money on alcohol, cigarettes or strippers are pretty much zero. The extra money in our household goes in to our child's college fund, which seems much more likely than a scenario where I need months of food and water in the house. A week's worth? Sure, that could be worthwhile. But I'm not going to walk around telling people about it. And I'm not going to self identify as a prepper. I'm just going to keep the pantry full. That' ...


So what you're basically saying is that people around you better not have any hobbies or interests that you don't share, or, if they have the effrontery to violate that basic rule of life, they better not talk about it with you. Got it. You sound like a great friend.
 
2013-02-23 04:32:58 PM
There are millions of people in this world who expect things to stay the same for the entirety of their lives. They feel that the governments of the world have their best interests well in hand, and they will never need to do anything to ensure their own survival in a catastrophe because people better than them are working hard to keep them safe and secure.

If anyone thinks otherwise they are demonized as being crazy. Only a crazy person would prepare for the collapse of society. Only a crazy person would think random strangers would try to attack them for things like food and water.

And until society does collapse, this stigma will always be there. Always.
 
2013-02-23 05:15:09 PM

untaken_name: If you're barely making ends meet, and are putting MREs on your christmas wish list, then it's hoarding. That's, in fact, why this came up at all in conversation with the person I was talking about - they wanted me to gift them this stuff for christmas. If your emergency preparations are such that I hear about it, then it's overboard. If you have the space and money, do what you want. But if it becomes an obsession, a lifestyle, or if you ask me for help with your preparations... there's something wrong with that.

It would take you about two seconds to click on my profile and realize the chances of me wasting my money on alcohol, cigarettes or strippers are pretty much zero. The extra money in our household goes in to our child's college fund, which seems much more likely than a scenario where I need months of food and water in the house. A week's worth? Sure, that could be worthwhile. But I'm not going to walk around telling people about it. And I'm not going to self identify as a prepper. I'm just going to keep the pantry full. That' ...

So what you're basically saying is that people around you better not have any hobbies or interests that you don't share, or, if they have the effrontery to violate that basic rule of life, they better not talk about it with you. Got it. You sound like a great friend.


What I'm saying is that if your paranoid fantasies get to the point where you ask me at Christmas for food you're never actually going to eat and just shove in a closet, then I'm going to think you're weird, and I'm not going to buy it for you. And if you complain that you're struggling to pay your bills but think it's more important that you stock up on ammo, then I'm going to think you have poor decision making skills. Finally, preparing for the end times isn't a hobby. Hobbies have some element of enjoyment or recreation to them, and those are interesting to hear about (not just in spite of, but especially when it's something I'd never participate in myself). But buying stuff doesn't count. I'd be just as bored with a conversation with someone who spent an excessive amount of time and effort buying shoes "just because they might need them sometime" even though "money is really tight right now." That's the real equivalent in this situation.
 
2013-02-23 06:36:44 PM
The rule of thumb for this is pretty much the one you use for any mental illness. Are they causing themselves or others harm? I admit I watched some episodes of Doomsday Preppers but I stopped because it just made me sad. Those people were mentally ill. They were blowing thousands of dollars, sometimes all of their savings, into preparing for an event that probably will never happen. The show was enabling their illness. Their families should have been saying "Look dad, you've spent all our money on bunkers and ammunition that we're never going to use. You need to tone it way down and we'll be glad to get you the help you need." Instead of just shrugging their shoulders and saying "I guess he just wants us to be safe" while muttering under their breath "but it would be nice if we could go on a vacation every once in a while."

Yes, being prepared for an emergency is a good idea. It is just as good and important idea as brushing your teeth. You don't spend all your money on every dental attachment out there. You don't spend your free time daydreaming about the best ways to brush your teeth. You don't form tooth brushing clubs. You buy your toothbrush and floss and you take care of it. If prepping is taking over your finances and your social life it means you're compensating for something else and you should probably look into that before you start taking dates to your bunker and eating bugs "for practice."
 
2013-02-23 08:25:49 PM

odinsposse: The rule of thumb for this is pretty much the one you use for any mental illness. Are they causing themselves or others harm? I admit I watched some episodes of Doomsday Preppers but I stopped because it just made me sad. Those people were mentally ill. They were blowing thousands of dollars, sometimes all of their savings, into preparing for an event that probably will never happen. The show was enabling their illness. Their families should have been saying "Look dad, you've spent all our money on bunkers and ammunition that we're never going to use. You need to tone it way down and we'll be glad to get you the help you need." Instead of just shrugging their shoulders and saying "I guess he just wants us to be safe" while muttering under their breath "but it would be nice if we could go on a vacation every once in a while."

Yes, being prepared for an emergency is a good idea. It is just as good and important idea as brushing your teeth. You don't spend all your money on every dental attachment out there. You don't spend your free time daydreaming about the best ways to brush your teeth. You don't form tooth brushing clubs. You buy your toothbrush and floss and you take care of it. If prepping is taking over your finances and your social life it means you're compensating for something else and you should probably look into that before you start taking dates to your bunker and eating bugs "for practice."


Comparing the subjects of Doomsday Preppers with real life people who are prepared for crises is apples to oranges. It is a TV SHOW. It is ENTERTAINMENT.
Do you also believe that Survivor, Bachelor, and other "reality tv" shows are actually real and not staged / scripted / edited for maximum shock/entertainment value?

The only reality TV show I've ever seen where most of it was real was Mike Rowe's Dirty Jobs. Even then, he freely admitted that he often had to put entertainment before getting the job done, safety, or even the real picture.
 
2013-02-23 09:16:06 PM
I really enjoy how this thread became a mishmash of Obama, gun rights, preppers, nutjobs, and sushi.
 
2013-02-23 09:31:29 PM

mesmer242: What I'm saying is that if your paranoid fantasies get to the point where you ask me at Christmas for food you're never actually going to eat and just shove in a closet, then I'm going to think you're weird, and I'm not going to buy it for you.


Oh, I get it. You don't understand how stored food rotation works, and you can't be bothered to learn about anything once you've made your mind up with no actual experience. Hey, that's fine. Let's see how well that works out for you in life.

mesmer242: And if you complain that you're struggling to pay your bills but think it's more important that you stock up on ammo, then I'm going to think you have poor decision making skills.


Okay, that's reasonable.

mesmer242: Finally, preparing for the end times isn't a hobby. Hobbies have some element of enjoyment or recreation to them, and those are interesting to hear about (not just in spite of, but especially when it's something I'd never participate in myself).


Good to know that you are the arbiter of what is and is not a hobby, and what is and is not interesting. Not sure who elected you to that position, but whatever.

mesmer242: But buying stuff doesn't count.


Buying stuff doesn't count as a hobby? Better tell comic book collectors, stamp collectors, ANYTHING THAT COSTS MONEY COLLECTORS, then, because they all disagree with you.

mesmer242: I'd be just as bored with a conversation with someone who spent an excessive amount of time and effort buying shoes "just because they might need them sometime" even though "money is really tight right now." That's the real equivalent in this situation.


So you should be able to tell everyone else how to spend their money, and if you aren't allowed to do so, then people are wrong and bad and stupid. Well, it's a good thing you're the boss of everyone else, since you're so much better at making their decisions for them.
 
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