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(Reason Magazine)   Dear Media: Stop mixing up "Preppers" with "Survivalists" we are two very different groups. One group prepares in case of the worst and are sane people and the other are survivalist gun nuts   (reason.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Jesse Walker, Rick Perlstein, morally superior, shooting sports, Wal, political action, Thomas Hobbes, Sandy Hook  
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6844 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 5:39 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 08:29:24 PM  
years of fire evacuations, as well as living with earthquakes teach you that it's smart to prepare in small to moderate ways.  I'm not building a castle with gun turrets.  I'm simply aware that with very limited ways in and out of this town food will be gone from stores very quickly.  They tell you to prepare for 3 days.  Safe is more like two weeks.
 
2013-02-22 08:29:30 PM  

thamike: Ow! That was my feelings!: gweilo8888: GAT_00: what_now: I have a good friend who has over a dozen guns, complete with cases, ammo and cleaning supplies hidden in various places in his apartment. He and his partner have a backpack each with disaster supplies and medicine.

Both of these men would shrivel up and die if they couldn't get takeout sushi, or the bar ran out of bitters. It's....really really weird.

You can't get takeout sushi that is good in Boston?, anywhere. Full stop. If it's takeout, it's not sushi.

FTFY.


Nice, a sushi expert from Tennessee.  You are hilariously wrong.

Well, technically, it would still be sushi.  You can get that at the supermarket in little plastic boxes, too.  But Sushi involves sitting at a sushi bar and interacting with a sushi chef who lives his art and knows what you want before you do.  I don't know how Boston  or Tennessee fare, and I wouldn't assume that there's no great sushi joints there, but "take-out sushi" sounds kind of counterproductive.

/Los Angeles.


Sometimes you just want to eat rice and fish in a nice little package. What do you have against rice and fish?
 
2013-02-22 08:31:30 PM  

foxyshadis: What do you have against rice and fish?


Currently? My small intestines.

Also don't forget horse. Horse is best sushi.
 
2013-02-22 08:33:40 PM  

arentol: Not all preppers are survivalists, but all survivalists are preppers. :)

In other words, survivalists are just a sub-set of preppers. The Venn diagram would be a big circle (Preppers) with a little circle (Survivalists) entirely inside it.

The people in this article are in another subset of preppers, also fully contained in the Venn diagram above, and partially overlapping with Survivalists. This group doesn't have a name but I would call them Sustainers, because they are already partially self-sustaining.

The difference between all these groups has very little to do with guns aside from the fact that basically all survivalists have firearms while only most of the non-survivalist prepper's have them. The real differences are about mindset, training, preparation, and organization.

Survivalists tend to have the mindset that when the SHTF (and they KNOW it will) they will go to a preplanned remote area and live off the land. They usually have formal training in wilderness survival techniques. Their preparation level varies from a backpack with survival gear to a pre-stocked car, cabin, or compound, and they have firearms. They are sometimes organized in large groups.

Sustainers tend to have the mindset that when the SHTF they will live where they already live, but spend more time on growing their own food and maintaining the property they are already living on and partly off of. They already know how to use all their equipment and need no training, they usually have firearms. Their preparation level is everything they own, so it is pretty high. They are rarely found in groups.

The remaining "general" preppers have a mindset that varies from believing things will never be bad for all that long and the government will put it right, to believing that the S will really HTF. They don't do little or no training, but have some survival guides and maybe watch some survival shows on TV, they usually have firearms. Their preparation level is only enough for their personal worst case scenario, and usually includes a backpack in case they have to "bug out". They are never found in groups.

Being a general prepper can be cheap and easy and take very little time. If something bad does happen a general prepper and their family are more likely to be comfortable during the crisis, and more likely to survive if it is a relative long lasting situation (like power and water are out for a month and roads are all blocked). Katrina and Sandy have shown us that natural disasters, if large enough, can make life much more difficult for a short while, and that is when being a prepper can pay off. Being a Survivalist or Sustainer in that same situation is a much worse position from a cost/benefit perspective because your situation is no better than most general preppers, but it cost you a LOT more to be that way.

That being said, if the SHTF, Survivalists really will do better than average. Yes, tons will fail miserably, but a far higher percentage of non-survivalists will fail worse. Sustainers will do the best, if for no other reason then because they have useful skills, land, and equipment they can barter for protection. General preppers will also do better on average because they will be better prepared to hide out during the earliest and most dangerous days, and also better prepared to survive anywhere they find themselves. Heck, if things ever did go down the tubes just owning a survival guide and a single small bottle of water purification tablets could be the difference between life and death... And that would only run you about $40.


Well put. I wanted to say the same, but you hit the proverbial nail.
 
2013-02-22 08:34:13 PM  

specialkae: Now, I was a Girl Scout  ... I had a pantry with ... over 100 rolls of TP


Why do women think that hoarding Toilet Paper is the same as being disaster  prepared? Every time that the local news says that there is a dangerous storm coming through the supermarket shelves are often empty of TP.

Maybe for women having TP is like an addiction. I haven't seen any storm stories about coffee or tobacco being bought out though stories about long lines at the liquor store are common.
 
2013-02-22 08:34:19 PM  

super_grass: There is something disturbing about people trying to assert their independence from society. It gives them less of a stake in the government and social stability in general and therefore less motivation to support these institutions.

Society is a contract that you sign by simply existing and you have no right to bail on it and fend for yourself once things get hairy. Those who think otherwise should have no rights as human beings and should be treated as such.


That sounds really cute on paper. You obviously haven't been around when a portion of society runs amok. Get back to me when you see houses on your street on fire, hear constant gun fire and see law enforcement in dire straits trying to contain the situation. Been there, experienced it. Once is enough. Don't tell me I have no rights because I tried to stay alive, shmuck!

/ 60th & Vermont, L.A.
//4/29/92
///caucasian
 
2013-02-22 08:43:25 PM  

nmemkha: pedrop357: BTW, I'm no prepper, but I do keep the cabinets and freezer stocked.

lol bullshiat. You're like a pedophile saying he just likes naked boy art.


i4.ytimg.com
 
2013-02-22 08:43:49 PM  

SurelyShirley: super_grass: There is something disturbing about people trying to assert their independence from society. It gives them less of a stake in the government and social stability in general and therefore less motivation to support these institutions.

Society is a contract that you sign by simply existing and you have no right to bail on it and fend for yourself once things get hairy. Those who think otherwise should have no rights as human beings and should be treated as such.

That sounds really cute on paper. You obviously haven't been around when a portion of society runs amok. Get back to me when you see houses on your street on fire, hear constant gun fire and see law enforcement in dire straits trying to contain the situation. Been there, experienced it. Once is enough. Don't tell me I have no rights because I tried to stay alive, shmuck!

/ 60th & Vermont, L.A.
//4/29/92
///caucasian


You are attempting to employ reasoning with a known psychopath.
 
2013-02-22 08:53:29 PM  
It's comforting to know that if something catastrophic really did happen, 95% of Farkers would be dead, but their pretentiousness would probably live on.
 
2013-02-22 08:56:18 PM  

nmemkha: Preppers are morons. I don't care how fortified you are, the unprepared outnumber you 100,000+ to 1. They will find a way to take your shiat eventually.


Any person who lives in our civilization, and doesn't realize that his only real hope for survival is the survival of that civilization is an idiot.
 
2013-02-22 08:59:19 PM  
Without having read the article or the comment thread, please allow me to say this:

No. There is no difference. Both groups are nuts.
 
2013-02-22 09:03:16 PM  

jso2897: nmemkha: Preppers are morons. I don't care how fortified you are, the unprepared outnumber you 100,000+ to 1. They will find a way to take your shiat eventually.

Any person who lives in our civilization, and doesn't realize that his only real hope for survival is the survival of that civilization is an idiot.


Oh really? I think you must not be very well versed in parts of society not clogged with people.
 
2013-02-22 09:06:49 PM  

ravenlore: spiderpaz: I live in suburbia, so there's only so much I can prepare for.  I've got the supplies I would need to filter the water in my hot tub.  I've got a vegetable garden (mostly because I like fresh veggies).  I've got 2 months worth of freeze dried food (definitely my most "prepper" like asset) for me, my wife, and our baby boy.

I figure the most insane natural disaster I can be prepared for is at most 2 months (like an earthquake breaking every water line in town, and a flood wiping out the roads.  Anything more serious than that, and you are kidding yourself if you think you're going to be okeedokie and self sufficient.  If something crazy like that were to happen I'd just move back to my Dad's ranch where I was living before I moved into town.  Being a farmer is really the only realistic way to survive something that serious.

That being said, it seems like the people really enthused about preparing for the end are the ones that are not prepared for the present - i.e. impoverished rednecks who are economic failures.  It's like they lost at life, so they make themselves feel better by convincing themselves they're going to be on top when society breaks down.

Do you mind if i quote that last paragraph EVERWHERE? Because it is the most accurate description i have ever heard of some folks I know.


quote your face off
 
2013-02-22 09:08:56 PM  
"Only when the people have grown to where the government is wanted but not needed will there be government of the people, by the people, and for the people." - Robert Patrician
 
2013-02-22 09:12:18 PM  

what_now: What's the line between "Has a backpack with flashlight and medical supplies, and a weeks worth of canned goods in cupboard" and "collects bags of own poop "?

because there has to be a line, right?


...well, the line is somewhere between "a week's worth of canned goods" and "enough canned goods that you never actually have to buy food again."

"Collecting your own urine" is a bit further past the latter.

"Collecting your own shiat" isn't on the map at all.
 
2013-02-22 09:12:51 PM  
When y2k was approaching people asked if I was making any preparations.  I told them, "Yep. I have several thousand rounds of ammo.  I'm storing my supplies at my neighbors' houses, they just don't know it."

In reality, all I did was grab a couple of hundred dollars out of an ATM just in case there were any banking problems.
 
2013-02-22 09:13:53 PM  

puppetmaster745: Knucklepopper: duenor: Nutsac_Jim: Oh.. and farmers will probably not take your worthless paper currency.
Better hope you have a lot of 5 ounce silver bars.

I have carpentry, medical, and metalworking skills for trade. I'm pretty sure I could work out a trade anywhere.

Yeah, well I have bartending, so line starts behind me, buddy.

Winemaking experience here, so take a step back, friend.


Well, shiat.
 
2013-02-22 09:14:41 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Here's the thing: We've HAD a huge, civilization-wide disaster of unimaginable proportions. It devastated an entire continent, killed one-third of the population, emptied entire towns. It's known today as the Black Death.

And yet: With people dropping and dying in the streets (some cities recorded death tolls as high as 70%), zero medical care except prayer and leeches, and virtually no social controls like we have today, society DIDN'T collapse, and cities DIDN'T devolve into anarchy. There were some bad things, of course, nobody would pretend the mass Jew burnings and witch hunts and Flagellants were great--but there wasn't mass chaos.

I'm just not sure what exactly the preppers think is going to happen even if there was some kind of pandemic (which takes time to develop) or disaster or war. And an economic collapse is very slow, it's not like the currency gets devalued and instantly stores vanish into the ground. What do folks think they're prepping FOR?


Believe me, I'm more with you than the survivalists but what you said is totally irrelevant.  Back then they were an agrarian society.  They lived much more like the preppers do than you do.  They didn't depend on grocery stores.  Most people lived in the country.  Pandemic would be MUCH MUCH worse today.
 
2013-02-22 09:21:10 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Here's the thing: We've HAD a huge, civilization-wide disaster of unimaginable proportions. It devastated an entire continent, killed one-third of the population, emptied entire towns. It's known today as the Black Death.

And yet: With people dropping and dying in the streets (some cities recorded death tolls as high as 70%), zero medical care except prayer and leeches, and virtually no social controls like we have today, society DIDN'T collapse, and cities DIDN'T devolve into anarchy. There were some bad things, of course, nobody would pretend the mass Jew burnings and witch hunts and Flagellants were great--but there wasn't mass chaos.

I'm just not sure what exactly the preppers think is going to happen even if there was some kind of pandemic (which takes time to develop) or disaster or war. And an economic collapse is very slow, it's not like the currency gets devalued and instantly stores vanish into the ground. What do folks think they're prepping FOR?


I'm sure the Jew burnings would have gone differently if all those Jews had filled their basements with guns and canned goods....
 
2013-02-22 09:27:22 PM  

Ceiling Moran: Without having read the article or the comment thread, please allow me to say this:

No. There is no difference. Both groups are nuts.


You are correct. Any individual who prepares for the possibility that utilities, services and stores will be inaccessible for any duration is mentally unstable.
 
2013-02-22 09:31:13 PM  
I've been in a major city that came within 24 hours of complete meltdown. I'm talking about Atlanta, and I'm talking about the gas shortage crisis a few years back that everyone has forgotten about. Towards the end everyone was running on fumes and there were about 3 gas stations that had fuel in a city of more than 5 million people.

The gasoline did start flowing again, but we were dangerously close to cars running out of gas on the interstate en masse, bringing traffic between states to a standstill. And if the gas had not come there would be no where for those people to go. They would just have to abandon their vehicles and fend for themselves. Seriously, another 12 hours and the National Guard would have had to have been called in.

And we never got so much as an explanation. Society almost failed in the 10th largest metropolitan area of a supposedly first world country and all we got was a collective shrug.

Don't take things for granted. Your security is not really as certain as you think.

/yeah, okay, that sounded crazy.
 
2013-02-22 09:36:54 PM  

KrustyKitten: titwrench: I have enough food and water to last me a 2 weeks (not rationing) in case of emergency, 5 weeks if I ration and take in the bare minimum. It is packed in such a way that I can be out of the house within 5 minutes with everything including important documents, camping gear and my guns (taking them just so they are not left behind). I live in earthquake and fire land and have had to evecuate for a fire once. I also have a few survival related items in my truck at all times just in case I get stuck 4 wheeling I can hole up for a couple days. My friends think I am weird, at least they did until all of the power in San Diego and surrounding areas went out for 12 hours about a year and a half ago, I was the only one that had electricity (generator). You can be prepered without being a crackpot.

Thanks for bringing the SD thing from a year or two ago.  People started freaking out because they couldn't pump gas or buy groceries for just 5 little hours.
Can you imagine an EQ large enough to knock out services for a week or two with emergency services redirected to even harder hit areas than yours?  I stockpile at least 2 weeks worth of drinking water, people food, pet food, never let the gas get under a half tank, etc.  That also Includes weapons and an evac plan with meet up points for loved ones, if necessary.  I am not going to be stuck in this hellhole when people start really losing it.

That's just prepared, not crazy at all.

Right?


IMO, and I'm a fellow Californian, you are not crazy. A major earthquake is a definite possibility. I should be as prepared as you, but I only have a few days' worth of supplies and no firearms.

To me, it's all about a sense of proportion.

Two weeks' worth of supplies, one or two guns for personal defense (since you're a city dweller, I'm ruling out hunting firearms) and gas in the car so you can bug out as soon as roads clear is not unreasonable. But one earthquake won't wipe out an entire state, so CA will still have some functioning areas after "the big one" hits.

More than six months worth of supplies, more guns and ammo than you can carry and turning your home into a heavily fortified bunker so you can defend your stuff and wait out "TEOTWAKI" is not.
 
2013-02-22 09:37:12 PM  
I don't hoard emergency supplies. I hoard nitrous oxide, the addresses of preppers, and I keep the tanks for my cutting torch full.
 
2013-02-22 09:37:58 PM  
When the apocalypse hits, if I can't barter my skills I'll just pillage until I'm shot.  Who cares.
 
2013-02-22 09:56:15 PM  
I think the primary difference is: survivalists have this apocalyptic hero fantasy and actually seem eager for shiat to go down, while preppers fervently hope they never have to use their emergency gear and guns. Or I may have that backwards. Anyway, there's preparedness and then there's paranoia.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:32 PM  

atomicmask: Well of course they are going to demonize anyone with any bit of independence, how else are they going to get suckers to pay 10 dollars for a half quart of water when things get shiatty? They need to build a culture of dependence, in which a nation of children look at big daddy government and stretch out grubby hands whenever things get tough going "GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE, PLEASE CHANGE MY POOPY PANTS!"

If they do not try to portray everyone who plans for the worst as crazies, then the common sense ideas might catch on.


Oh, bullshiat - stop with the 'gubmint wants us to be unprepared' crap, it's that sort of rhetoric that makes otherwise-sensible preppers sound stupid.

If you go to any state, county, or municipal website, they'll have links to information about being prepared for emergencies.  No government would be unhappy about people being able to sustain themselves in a natural or man-made disaster.
 
2013-02-22 10:11:57 PM  

Dimensio: You are correct. Any individual who prepares for the possibility that utilities, services and stores will be inaccessible for any duration is mentally unstable.


The Government is ever- benevolent and all- knowing; the Government will always look after you, no matter how dire the emergency. If you doubt this, you are a crazy fringe extremist redneck.
 
2013-02-22 10:13:14 PM  

WordyGrrl: This is my survival stash: a package of noodles that I've been carting around during various house moves for the past 20-some years. Because if financial disaster strikes and all I can afford to eat is Ramen, at least it'll be the good kind from the Korean store.
[www.ezionmarket.com image 300x300]


My god I love those noodles. Whenever I go to Tops they only have about a dozen packages on the shelf and I usually buy all of them.


As for preppers and survivalists... obviously it's open to interpretation.

I'm a prepper in the regard that I have just enough skills and firepower that I'm prepared to compete for resources against the rest of the population for food, clean water and the coveted title and office of 'He Who Runs Bartertown'

westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com


And that's what it would boil down to.

... but it's a future I'd rather not experience and preparation of such an event has nothing to do with the reasons I own my guns (I just like shooting!)

In the case of a disaster without societal recovery inside of a couple months there are two fundamental situational facts:

-by stockpiling resources you are (knowingly or otherwise) only staving off the time you have before you're forced to hunt/gather in the scary world vs all the rest of us.
-by stockpiling weapons and ammo you are trying to get a leg up on the inhumane realities you will most certainly experience

I'm not sure which one is the survivalist and which is the prepper, but I think the terminating line between sane and insane is in:
-what you are stockpiling and why
and more importantly
-could your survival plan best be described as one of "isolated survival"? (if yes you are most certainly stupid and possibly insane)

Food and other resources for you and yours makes sense for any interruption of grocery store supply lines. Though the degree at which this is done might take you out of "makes sense" category.

Guns and ammo stockpiling shows a deliberate preparation for war against your fellow neighbors. Having a few falls into the "being prepared to defend myself" category, while having much and many falls into either "prepared to kill all my neighbors before they kill me" category or the "ready to go out in a blaze of glory" category which notably has nothing to do with survival

No one but a very select few wants to see some dystopian future happen. While it's certainly possible, associating with a community that makes the guns and ammo stockpiling something their lives rotate around is unhealthy and antisocial at it's root... and while not a big deal for the fringe few to entertain, the larger a movement like that grows (to say, the larger population percentages of a society grow), the closer it's anti-society preparations have the chance of being a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And from that perspective, these people may be their own worst enemies.

And I say this as a vet with plenty of guns and ammo :P living in a very very rural, Republican, prepper/gunnut friendly community. (but you know the saying "above all else, to thine own self be true")

The only way to survive a collapse of society is to replace that lost society with a new one. Reintegration with your neighbors, building new supply lines and securing new alliances with others doing the same. Helping others so they will (hopefully) in turn help you.

All holing up in the ground or hiding on a ranch in the middle of nowhere does for you is isolates you from your two most important resources in a situation like that:

-like-minded non-insane people
-information about what is going on in the world around you.

Why most important?
Sheltering yourself from the world is the antithesis of preparation.
You cannot prepare for something you do not know about.

The only thing better than having enough guns and food to survive a one man war against whomever is not being one man (attacker dissuasion/safety in numbers) or to know their movements and avoid them entirely.

It reminds me of my favorite Patton quote: "No one ever defended anything successfully. There is only attack and attack and attack some more."
In this case, the thing a wise person will be attacking is the very collapse of society itself, by facilitating rebuilding and reintegration.

Attempting to preserve the integrity of your own little bubble is beyond idiotic and is the very reason we laugh at the typical stereotype we call prepper/survivalist.
 
2013-02-22 10:14:51 PM  
If you aren't prepared to support yourself during emergencies, you're willing to entrust your well-being to divine providence or the charity of others. Either way you're an idiot.
 
2013-02-22 10:17:32 PM  

HairBolus: duenor: HairBolus: duenor: Where were nice army reservists where my friends were getting shot at by looters as they were trying to give out supplies in LA?

Have you had your meds checked recently? You seem delusional and prone to make up fantasies and then believe they actually happened.

Ad Hominem, I see.

I can't validate my friends' stories because they were never covered by the media.

What I doubt is that you live in New Orleans and that you actually have face to face friends that were shot at while trying to be good Samaritans during Katrina. Lots of stuff was made up during Katrina to fit a "dangerous animal" narrative as was lots of stuff denied such as cops killing blacks for trying to walk out of NO.

I still think you are delusional and need of a med check and that you consider someone to be a "friend" if you have read something they wrote on the internet in a racist survivalist nutjob vein.


I can't speak for duenor, but I had a coworker that was doing boat rescues in New Orleans after Katrina (he lived out in Houma).  According to him, he stopped after the first or second run out there to help people because he was getting shot at.

So, yeah, I knew a face-to-face friend/colleague who said he was shot at while trying to be a good Samaritan.
 
2013-02-22 10:18:20 PM  
I grew up in the Snow Belt, and we've always had extra food, batteries, radios, and other things to make life easier when you're snowed in or there's a blackout (or both). I keep enough to get by until I can get more. Have a couple guns, nothing fancy, and I don't fantasize about getting into any epic shootouts with the government, zombies, or aliens. (or government zombie aliens, whichever you prefer). The last thing I want to do in an extreme situation is to pick a fight. Even more so if I were on the move with just what I could carry on my back.

I do not know more than a few (four, to be exact) people who qualify for the term "prepper". I know one who's a "survivalist" hands down, but the other three are as normal as you'd expect to meet. No black helicopter discussions with those folks. The other guy is a little out there, but not dangerously so in my opinion. I still believe in the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared". It can't hurt, as long as you don't go overboard.
 
2013-02-22 10:27:18 PM  
When did having a few extra supplies on hand become a liberal hate magnet?

For all the Haters a little punk tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAl3iQupaFU

I live in an earthquake zone... I need a couple weeks supplies. Is them meme now to beg and rob in case of disaster or 1992 riots?
 
2013-02-22 10:31:28 PM  

SurelyShirley: super_grass: There is something disturbing about people trying to assert their independence from society. It gives them less of a stake in the government and social stability in general and therefore less motivation to support these institutions.

Society is a contract that you sign by simply existing and you have no right to bail on it and fend for yourself once things get hairy. Those who think otherwise should have no rights as human beings and should be treated as such.

That sounds really cute on paper. You obviously haven't been around when a portion of society runs amok. Get back to me when you see houses on your street on fire, hear constant gun fire and see law enforcement in dire straits trying to contain the situation. Been there, experienced it. Once is enough. Don't tell me I have no rights because I tried to stay alive, shmuck!

/ 60th & Vermont, L.A.
//4/29/92
///caucasian


Racist detected.
 
2013-02-22 10:31:33 PM  

TerminalEchoes: It's comforting to know that if something catastrophic really did happen, 95% of Farkers would be dead, but their pretentiousness would probably live on.


Come now, that's a bit harsh; who says they'll be dead? Their meme- propagating skills, recondite knowledge of ephemeral pop- culture trivia, and total contempt for the lowly redneck trash that currently keep them warm, housed and fed would likely stand Farkers in good stead during a civilizational collapse. Rebuilding a new society would require the talents not only of farmers, carpenters, and technicians, but also of anime fans, jejune Internet atheists and cat- hoarding social isolates.
 
2013-02-22 10:32:34 PM  

what_now: I have a good friend who has over a dozen guns, complete with cases, ammo and cleaning supplies hidden in various places in his apartment. He and his partner have a backpack each with disaster supplies and medicine.

Both of these men would shrivel up and die if they couldn't get takeout sushi, or the bar ran out of bitters. It's....really really weird.


have a go-bag in case of emergency. and if i have to walk anywhere near a mile with it i'll drop dead of a heart attack, no doubt. i've gone to funerals of people more physically fit than i.
 
2013-02-22 10:36:38 PM  

super_grass: Racist detected.


I'm looking forward to the day when racist detectors are placed in every home like carbon monoxide detectors, except that the racist detectors will never run out of batteries and will wirelessly transmit information to a central data warehouse staffed exclusively by grumpy black women.
 
2013-02-22 10:39:43 PM  
She plagiarized when she said "Mutant Zombie Bikers" from the book Light's Out. In Light's Out, the survivors call the people they are protecting themselves from are "Mutant Zombie Bikers". She did not credit the book!
 
2013-02-22 10:44:57 PM  

spiderpaz: Gyrfalcon: Here's the thing: We've HAD a huge, civilization-wide disaster of unimaginable proportions. It devastated an entire continent, killed one-third of the population, emptied entire towns. It's known today as the Black Death.

And yet: With people dropping and dying in the streets (some cities recorded death tolls as high as 70%), zero medical care except prayer and leeches, and virtually no social controls like we have today, society DIDN'T collapse, and cities DIDN'T devolve into anarchy. There were some bad things, of course, nobody would pretend the mass Jew burnings and witch hunts and Flagellants were great--but there wasn't mass chaos.

I'm just not sure what exactly the preppers think is going to happen even if there was some kind of pandemic (which takes time to develop) or disaster or war. And an economic collapse is very slow, it's not like the currency gets devalued and instantly stores vanish into the ground. What do folks think they're prepping FOR?

Believe me, I'm more with you than the survivalists but what you said is totally irrelevant.  Back then they were an agrarian society.  They lived much more like the preppers do than you do.  They didn't depend on grocery stores.  Most people lived in the country.  Pandemic would be MUCH MUCH worse today.


Maybe...but out in the country, they had nothing in the way of backup when things turned to shiat. Lots of villages totally vanished as their populations died or relocated. Medicine was nonexistent, canceling out the so-called advantages of being "independent" of cities. Being able to grow your own food will not help you when your oxen are dead of the plague. The death rate in rural areas was at least as high as it was in the cities.

The point is, it wasn't having plenty of food available that kept people and society alive. It was society that kept people alive. It wasn't hunkering down in remote locations and hoarding one's food; it was carrying on in spite of the awful death rates and despair and misery. Where efforts were made to keep people fed and housed and the dead buried decently and some semblance of order maintained, then surprisingly, order WAS maintained and morale remained above rock-bottom. There were few or no recorded riots in the streets of Siena, or people breaking down neighbor's doors to steal all their food in Paris. And they didn't even have cops or armies to take control.

It seems like the best way to ensure social breakdown in the event of a major catastrophe is to plan as if there WILL be a massive social breakdown, and adhere to the idea of hiding in a bunker and shooting anyone who approaches. The all-against-all mentality the preppers seem to espouse will not serve them well AFTER the social breakdown, when they need to put society back together again, unfortunately. But have no thought for the morrow, I guess.
 
2013-02-22 10:45:38 PM  

CheapEngineer: [www.ivy-style.com image 600x942]


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-22 10:46:01 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: staffed exclusively by grumpy black women.


I'm pretty sure that would violate the Geneva Conventions.
 
2013-02-22 10:50:05 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: super_grass: Racist detected.

I'm looking forward to the day when racist detectors are placed in every home like carbon monoxide detectors, except that the racist detectors will never run out of batteries and will wirelessly transmit information to a central data warehouse staffed exclusively by grumpy black women.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-22 10:55:20 PM  
The prepper or survivalist people I know are so ineffective in day to day life they live in a fantasy world. I'm not talking about some water, some food and some guns. I'm talking about we're preparing for the end of the world nut jobs. They can't keep a job, balance a checkbook have no friends but when the big bad gubmint (from which they derive most of their income) enacts the plan to kill them off then they'll finally be the successful popular person important person they were meant to be. It's a really sad and unhealthy way to live.
 
2013-02-22 10:59:04 PM  
No subs, that's wrong. All preppers are survivalists, but not all survivalists are preppers. They're all nuts.
 
2013-02-22 11:00:19 PM  

HairBolus: specialkae: Now, I was a Girl Scout  ... I had a pantry with ... over 100 rolls of TP

Why do women think that hoarding Toilet Paper is the same as being disaster  prepared? Every time that the local news says that there is a dangerous storm coming through the supermarket shelves are often empty of TP.


My scoutmaster had a great story about that. It involved being a supply officer at a stateside base during Vietnam, an early computer system, a TP order for an entire military base, and an extra zero.
 
2013-02-22 11:03:17 PM  

Peppermint Rose: The prepper or survivalist people I know are so ineffective in day to day life they live in a fantasy world. I'm not talking about some water, some food and some guns. I'm talking about we're preparing for the end of the world nut jobs. They can't keep a job, balance a checkbook have no friends but when the big bad gubmint (from which they derive most of their income) enacts the plan to kill them off then they'll finally be the successful popular person important person they were meant to be. It's a really sad and unhealthy way to live.


So you don't think it is healthy to have a hobby? I flint knapp and make stone tools as a hobby. It could be interpreted by the MSM as dangerous thing.

With certain martial arts stone tools can be lethal.
 
2013-02-22 11:09:51 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: what_now: What's the line between "Has a backpack with flashlight and medical supplies, and a weeks worth of canned goods in cupboard" and "collects bags of own poop "?

because there has to be a line, right?

It's the difference between preparing for a sudden, but manageable disaster (fire, tornado, flood, etc.) and preparing for the chaotic collapse of civilization.


Didn't read the whole thread, but this.

In "prepper" terms there's "the shiat hitting the fan/TSHF" and there's "the end of the world as we know it/TEOTWAWKI"

TSHF is a disruption of moderate length, maybe up to a year where one would have to feed/water themselves.

TEOTWAWKI is a cataclysmic event that pretty much sends us back to the dark ages.

The former is "being prepared", the latter is nuttiness. Where you draw the line is up to you.
 
2013-02-22 11:16:50 PM  
The survivalists are the guys who only stocked guns that the preppers with their food stocks will be fighting off.
 
2013-02-22 11:17:49 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzNIa-U5Nc

History... Survival... Basics...
 
2013-02-22 11:18:08 PM  
"They worry about ..."
TADA

we have the problem. insane people with irrational worries.
This one? worried about PEAK oil so they heat with wood.

I have NO PROBLEM with heating with wood or self-sufficiency. But when you are worried about something which wont happen in your lifetime (running out of oil/electricity for heating) then you are being a bit irrational.

/At any point in the future, the US and every other country could build massive numbers of fission power plants. More than enough to provide 100% of the needed electricity. This will happen the day after it becomes profitable to do so. (or a government subsidizes it. US DOD currently massively subsidizes OIL.)
 
2013-02-22 11:21:37 PM  

spaten: When did having a few extra supplies on hand become a liberal hate magnet?


when did laughing at crazy people become "liberal hate magnet"??

/no, having supplies to deal with your local probable disaster is rational. having 10x the needed amount is crazy.
/planning for an unavoidable (meteors and nuclear war (nothing that you can do can avoid this)) or planning for running out of oil or global warming is just nutty
 
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