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(Huffington Post)   Oklahoma considering bill to prevent teachers from flunking students who claim that the Holocaust or gravity are myths   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 306
    More: Asinine, Academic Freedom Act, Oklahoma, Holocaust, human beings, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Dana Rohrabacher, science education, Jim Sensenbrenner  
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3979 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Feb 2013 at 2:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 11:43:35 AM
And it sounds likely to pass, too.
 
2013-02-22 11:52:49 AM
In future news: Oklahoma legislature holds hearing on why more state residents aren't admitted into college.
 
2013-02-22 12:03:40 PM
Come on, subs; not even a hint of snark. Not one damn bit.

You had so much to work with.

/Oklahoma! makes it friggin easy with Oklahoma located stories.
 
2013-02-22 12:11:24 PM
OOOOOOOOOk-lahoma, where the derp comes sweepin' out the brains.....
 
2013-02-22 12:26:32 PM
Damnit so much.
 
2013-02-22 12:28:57 PM
A student has the freedom to write a paper that points out that highly complex life may not be explained by chance mutations.

And the teacher has the freedom to give that paper a big fat F if their theory isn't backed by actual science. This is a science class we're talking about after all.
 
2013-02-22 12:38:39 PM
with Oklahoma already being 42nd in the US in terms of science.  It would be like trailing the field in a marathon and your running coach telling you need to start wearing a back pack.
 
2013-02-22 12:55:30 PM
Can we start tying federal funding to education like we do highway funds and drinking ages?  Tell states, "Sure you can teach the 'controversy' of evolution, you just won't get any vaccines or funding for medical studies that rely on evolution"
 
2013-02-22 01:01:24 PM

WI241TH: Can we start tying federal funding to education like we do highway funds and drinking ages?  Tell states, "Sure you can teach the 'controversy' of evolution, you just won't get any vaccines or funding for medical studies that rely on evolution"


Freedom of Religion has always been a crucial part to the United States. The US was colonized from those who wished to flee religious persecution. Because of this, freedom of religion is set in stone on its importance in the United States. Any laws like that would very likely be struck down because you are attempting to influence their belief system. If their faith says the earth is 5000 years old that is what they will believe.
 
2013-02-22 01:01:24 PM
Goddamn Dominionists. They should be outlawed.
 
2013-02-22 01:02:34 PM

Blues_X: Damnit so much.


That's what we get for electing evil dentists for State Superintendent.
 
2013-02-22 01:13:37 PM
The bills says that students should "learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

I think many Farkers could benefit from that sort of instruction.
 
2013-02-22 01:20:57 PM
and any educator who goes along with this should be arrested for endangering the welfare of a child.
 
2013-02-22 01:22:40 PM
I'd love to see all schools in Oklahoma closed with teachers being moved to a place where they can do their job.  They're not doing anyone any good in Oklahoma it seems, and, at this point, the state is just wasting money keeping the schools open.  Let the god-clotted, homeschooling retards take over, and we'll have something to laugh at for generations to come.
 
2013-02-22 01:33:25 PM

cman: WI241TH: Can we start tying federal funding to education like we do highway funds and drinking ages?  Tell states, "Sure you can teach the 'controversy' of evolution, you just won't get any vaccines or funding for medical studies that rely on evolution"

Freedom of Religion has always been a crucial part to the United States. The US was colonized from those who wished to flee religious persecution. Because of this, freedom of religion is set in stone on its importance in the United States. Any laws like that would very likely be struck down because you are attempting to influence their belief system. If their faith says the earth is 5000 years old that is what they will believe.


I don't think it attempts to influence a belief system any more than telling them that the Earth is round and revolves around the sun, which is one star out of countless in the universe.  All of these are acceptable truths that contradict the bible.  Why draw the line at evolution?

In my opinion, evolution is one of the easiest things to reconcile with a biblical story of creation.  I have no problem if people want to believe there is a guiding hand that helped shape mankind, just so long as we understand that evolution is no more controversial than heliocentrism or geometry.  Enabling intellectual laziness like this will do nothing to improve our understanding of the world or America's place in it.
 
2013-02-22 01:50:57 PM
i say we create a derp zone around kansas and oklahoma. let them teach their anti-science agenda for 15 years. then STUDY IT OUT. see where their students are nationally. my guess is oklakansans will be as different from the rest of america as wells' morlocks and eloi.
 
2013-02-22 01:52:47 PM
The world needs ditch diggers too.
 
2013-02-22 01:52:49 PM

SkinnyHead: The bills says that students should "learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

I think many Farkers could benefit from that sort of instruction.


You were possibly the best troll ever. Rest in peace.

static.tvguide.com
 
2013-02-22 01:57:29 PM

exick: A student has the freedom to write a paper that points out that highly complex life may not be explained by chance mutations.

And the teacher has the freedom to give that paper a big fat F if their theory isn't backed by actual science. This is a science class we're talking about after all.


Not anymore.  Now flunking a student who confuses myths and science in science class will be considered religious persecution.

Next up: universities will be required to recognize religious exemptions to OK students who are incapable of demonstrating basic scientific knowledge because they've been hamstrung by the OK educational system.  All part of the grand scheme to reshape reality to fit the preconceived conclusions dictated by adherence to a bronze age mythos.
 
2013-02-22 02:02:49 PM
Oklahoma - I remember liking the play as a kid.
But apparently there is nothing else likable about it.

/Export the hot chicks and build a wall around the rest.
 
2013-02-22 02:04:34 PM
Are there any people left who a) aren't insane and b) even WANT to attempt to teach science in America's heartland?
 
2013-02-22 02:10:58 PM
I'm pretty damn sure that 1+1 = a giraffe.  Those farkers better teach that too.
 
2013-02-22 02:16:27 PM

gilgigamesh: Not anymore.  Now flunking a student who confuses myths and science in science class will be considered religious persecution.


I'm not so sure. The language of the bill is quite vague and has this to say regarding student evaluation:
D. Students may be evaluated based upon their understanding of course materials, but no student in any public school or institution shall be penalized in any way because the student may subscribe to a particular position on scientific theories. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to exempt students from learning,
understanding and being tested on curriculum as prescribed by state and local education standards.
 
2013-02-22 02:25:43 PM

vudutek: OOOOOOOOOk-lahoma, where the derp comes sweepin' leakin' out the brains.....


I think this works better.
 
2013-02-22 02:26:35 PM

cman: Freedom of Religion has always been a crucial part to the United States. The US was colonized from those who wished to flee religious persecution. Because of this, freedom of religion is set in stone on its importance in the United States. Any laws like that would very likely be struck down because you are attempting to influence their belief system. If their faith says the earth is 5000 years old that is what they will believe.


Under WI241TH's proposal, the government isn't telling anyone what he can believe.  There is no penalty being imposed upon those who believe nonsense...so, I don't credit your argument that laws requiring that federal education funds must be used to promote education (rather than religion) would be struck down.  I mean, the courts have routinely smacked down State and local laws that have tried to shoehorn religion into science classes.

Keep in mind that this isn't the federal government's saying that Oklahoma won't get highway funds if too many people adhere to creationism.  It's not the federal government's saying that Oklahomans can't get Social Security or Medicare if they attend a church.  Those things would be unconstitutional.

But, if federal education funds are tied to teaching the facts as revealed by science, it would just be a declaration that when States ask for money to teach science, they actually have to teach science -- not religion disguised as science.  There's nothing unconstitutional about that.
 
2013-02-22 02:31:22 PM

SkinnyHead: The bills says that students should "learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

I think many Farkers could benefit from that sort of instruction.


Citation needed.
Just like that kid who argues against evolution would need reputable sources to avoid a big fat farking F.
 
2013-02-22 02:33:09 PM

SkinnyHead: The bills says that students should "learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

I think many Farkers could benefit from that sort of instruction.


Sure, I'll give scientific evidence and critical thinking skills into my theory that Christianity is complete bupkis and lend credence to my opinion in why people should leave the church immediately. I am sure that due to the law, now no one in Oklahoma will want to attempt to penalize me for these issues I bring up.
 
2013-02-22 02:33:26 PM

eraser8: But, if federal education funds are tied to teaching the facts as revealed by science, it would just be a declaration that when States ask for money to teach science, they actually have to teach science -- not religion disguised as science.  There's nothing unconstitutional about that.


But what about when a state points at a religion and says, "Hey, this is science!" and proceeds to teach it in their science classes?
 
2013-02-22 02:33:32 PM
i171.photobucket.com

Valedictorian.
 
2013-02-22 02:33:51 PM
So Oklahoma is going to be responsible for the next generation of the GOP?
 
2013-02-22 02:36:16 PM
I expect nothing less from a bunch of fundamentalist shiat kickers...
 
2013-02-22 02:37:30 PM

incendi: eraser8: But, if federal education funds are tied to teaching the facts as revealed by science, it would just be a declaration that when States ask for money to teach science, they actually have to teach science -- not religion disguised as science.  There's nothing unconstitutional about that.

But what about when a state points at a religion and says, "Hey, this is science!" and proceeds to teach it in their science classes?


I'd give the State the opportunity to defend their claim...using the scientific method.  If they can't -- or, if they want to play semantic games about the meaning of the word -- they shouldn't be humored.  Subsidizing stupidity is bad public policy.
 
2013-02-22 02:38:02 PM
Theories "such as" evolution and climate change.  You know, among the many, er, two or so scientific theories they're thinking of.

That's from the same people who want to protect constitutional liberties "such as" the right to carry a self-affirming .45 into a bar, and don't be lookin' crosswise at me cause I gots the right to STAND MY GROUND.
 
2013-02-22 02:38:33 PM
FTFA:While creationism bills have often been linked to religion, Blackwell insists that the legislation's focus is scientific exploration.

Bullshiat.
 
2013-02-22 02:41:10 PM

danvon: FTFA:While creationism bills have often been linked to religion, Blackwell insists that the legislation's focus is scientific exploration.

Bullshiat.


I imagine that when he said that everyone within arms distance of him jumped back a few feet in expectation of a lightning strike.
 
2013-02-22 02:41:24 PM

SkinnyHead: The bills says that students should "learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

I think many Farkers could benefit from that sort of instruction.


Believing a 5000 year old book has nothing to to do with "learning about scientific evidence, development of critical thinking skills or responding appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

There is no scientific validity to genesis and anyone wiht criticial thinking skills knows this.  People therefore respond appropriately with contempt at the morons who still think there's a creationism/evolution "controversial issue" among scientists.
 
2013-02-22 02:41:26 PM
Idiocy , but then again i lived in Oklahoma for about 10 years so i am not that surprised.   i got to wonder if this would pass constitutional  muster if challenged in court.

Seriously this is why i feel we need federal oversight on what is taught to kids to keep it consistent across the board and to prevent some backwards states from teaching their kids outright bullcrap.

/half surprised Oklahoma hasn't passed a law forbidding teachers from flunking members of high school football teams.
 
2013-02-22 02:42:51 PM

SkinnyHead: The bills says that students should "learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."

I think many Farkers could benefit from that sort of instruction.


Ok, sparky, tell me again why you haven't floated into space when you jump?
 
2013-02-22 02:43:52 PM

Kibbler: Theories "such as" evolution and climate change.  You know, among the many, er, two or so scientific theories they're thinking of.


You forgot set theory.  They're pissed off because it represents non-biblical math.
Some of the more liberal ones allow the use of zeros and teaching algebra even though it thought up by the Mohommedians.
 
2013-02-22 02:44:31 PM

cman: Come on, subs; not even a hint of snark. Not one damn bit.

You had so much to work with.

/Oklahoma! makes it friggin easy with Oklahoma located stories.


I may have missed something but it seems to me your whole 'show me the snark' and 'circle jerk' speech only seems to come out for stories that make republicans look bad.
 
2013-02-22 02:44:53 PM
This is another phase of the intelligent design/wedge document strategy.  After Dover vs. Kitzmiller unleashed the smackdown on a rapid adoption of creationism, the proponents realized that they would have to create a legislative environment that could nurture their views.

exick: gilgigamesh: Not anymore.  Now flunking a student who confuses myths and science in science class will be considered religious persecution.

I'm not so sure. The language of the bill is quite vague and has this to say regarding student evaluation:
D. Students may be evaluated based upon their understanding of course materials, but no student in any public school or institution shall be penalized in any way because the student may subscribe to a particular position on scientific theories. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to exempt students from learning,
understanding and being tested on curriculum as prescribed by state and local education standards.


This is deliberately vague.  The whole point is to be vague.  It's to allow creationists to gently challenge evolution.  The key is the last sentence which basically allows the local school boards to implement faith oriented education.

The next step is a do-over of Dover in a very small, very religious county.  It will be presented differently.  They won't drag out of Panda's and People.  They will keep Behe as far away from it as possible.  They will not have huge disclaimers about evolution in science classes.  What they will do is change the language.  The whole battle is about changing the language.  The big warning sign will be the creationist version of "Scientific Theory".  Once that is successfully undermined, creationism will succeed.

They don't want another court challenge.  This is exactly why they didn't go ahead and legislate it at the state level.  They don't want the ACLU rushing in to cite the Dover president.
 
2013-02-22 02:45:35 PM
I am entitled to my own facts! They are as equally true as what you think are facts. Fairness and balance are what this country is all about.
 
2013-02-22 02:45:46 PM
That would make "Ninjas at Gettysburg" potentially worth at least a B+.
 
2013-02-22 02:46:20 PM
So I'm assuming creationist challenges to scientific theory can come from any religion.  Or are we only talking about the Christian creation story, and, if that's the case, which creation story: Genesis 1 or Genesis 2?

/I think I farked up the punctuation.
 
2013-02-22 02:47:41 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: In future news: Oklahoma legislature holds hearing on why more state residents aren't admitted into college.


Nah. College is for homos.
 
2013-02-22 02:48:18 PM
eraser8:

I'd give the State the opportunity to defend their claim...using the scientific method.  If they can't -- or, if they want to play semantic games about the meaning of the word -- they shouldn't be humored.  Subsidizing stupidity is bad public policy.

I'm on board with that. I just wish the assholes would stop trying to shoehorn their bullshiat in with tricky business after they've been repeatedly rebuked by the courts.
 
2013-02-22 02:48:53 PM

WI241TH: Can we start tying federal funding to education like we do highway funds and drinking ages?


Is that still legal? I thought part of the Obamacare decision by Roberts said that the Federal government can no longer force the state to change its policies by threatening to withhold funds.
 
2013-02-22 02:49:00 PM

Wellon Dowd: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: In future news: Oklahoma legislature holds hearing on why more state residents aren't admitted into college.

Nah. College is for homos.


Welcome to the Chinese Century.
 
2013-02-22 02:49:38 PM
Certainly, no student should be flunked for believing those things. If they turn in an essay critical of the theory of gravity and cite papers from credible journals that either individually or taken together undermine one or more key tenant of the theory, that merits good marks. Likewise, a historical account of the Holocaust citing census data, forensic evidence, eyewitness accounts etcetera to Oakland into question casualty figures or methods of excecution they should get credit.

Unfortunately with the magic of context we can conclude that this is probably more to protect the "God said it/I believe it/ that settles it" and "Jews are reptilians that subsist on Christian fetuses" crowds.
 
2013-02-22 02:49:51 PM

danvon: FTFA:While creationism bills have often been linked to religion, Blackwell insists that the legislation's focus is scientific exploration.

Bullshiat.


Of course, that's been their cover since the Discovery Institute and similar groups have been founded.  "It's not about religion, it's about keeping an open mind!"

As if their attempts to shove religion down our throats isn't transparent.  This has nothing to do with scientific exploration, we know that and they know that.  They're liars, plain and simple.  They take what little they know about evolution and twist it so they can complain about it.  They quote mine men like Darwin and Dawkins and Einstein to make it appear that even the scientists don't like the theory.

Hell, I just read an incredibly frustrating article by a GODDAMN PHYSICS TEACHER from . . . of course. . . Texas who complained that the Big Bang Theory was constantly "changing" since it was formulated 70-80 years ago, showing a godawful misunderstanding of theories.  Of course TBBT is going to change!  That's what theories do when new evidence is uncovered, they change!  Anyone with a high school level understanding of the scientific method knows this.

These people are dishonest and deceitful.

They bear false witness and pretend it's all in the name of "scientific exploration."

These people are dangerous to our nation.
 
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