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(io9)   Today marks the 20th anniversary of the beginning of the greatest science fiction program ever to grace the American airwaves   (io9.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, J. Michael Straczynski, police drama, Bruce Boxleitner, Melissa Gilbert, story lines, NYPD Blue, Hill Street Blues, sci-fi  
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12548 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 22 Feb 2013 at 9:28 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



369 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-02-22 07:14:31 AM  
Mostly a trip down memory lane for me, with few if any new revelations, but it's a pleasant trip.
 
2013-02-22 08:42:18 AM  
Oh HELL no

DS9 was greater than all other Treks plus Babylon 5 combined.
 
2013-02-22 08:48:31 AM  
No no no no, "Jason Of Star Command" came out in 1978!
 
2013-02-22 08:55:12 AM  
The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
 
2013-02-22 08:59:34 AM  
Heh, just started a re-watch of B5 from the pilot forward, now I can make it an anniversary event.
 
2013-02-22 09:20:27 AM  
Gwen Stacy had Norman Osborne's children. Therefore B5 is retroactively not great.
 
2013-02-22 09:27:22 AM  
Computer graphic FX courtesy of Commodore Vic 20.
 
2013-02-22 09:28:12 AM  
Never missed an episode.  Awesome.
 
2013-02-22 09:32:47 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Gwen Stacy had Norman Osborne's children. Therefore B5 is retroactively not great.


Of all possible counter-arguments to subby's headline, this is by far the best. I bow in your general direction.
 
2013-02-22 09:32:54 AM  
I was there at the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind, so I'm getting a kick out of these ISN Documentary comments....
 
2013-02-22 09:34:45 AM  
If by "greatest" you mean genre-canned and dull.
 
2013-02-22 09:34:56 AM  
I remember reading rec.arts.sci-fi.television.babylon5 back in the day.  No one was allowed to post anything that might be considered a story idea, for legal reasons.. supposedly one story got pushed back 2 seasons because someone mentioned something just like it.
 
2013-02-22 09:37:24 AM  
Giving Flounder a major role and the involvement of Bruce Boxleightner pretty much killed it for me.  Also the weird transylvanian accents that those space-vampire looking dudes had were pretty annoying.  Cool graphics for its time, though.

My vote goes to Space: 1999, with a nod to the Original Battlestar Gallactica (or more correctly stated, the ONLY Battlestar Gallactica).

/Off my lawn, you blasted kids!
 
2013-02-22 09:38:55 AM  
That's a joke right?
 
2013-02-22 09:40:42 AM  
I liked B5, but the acting was really uneven, and JMS couldn't write ordinary human dialogue to save his life.
 
2013-02-22 09:44:06 AM  

Alphax: supposedly one story got pushed back 2 seasons because someone mentioned something just like it.


People in the entertainment industry who do shiat like that need a nice hard punch in the baby-maker.  Leaked story info is supposedly why Mass Effect 3 ended up getting a terrible, shiatty ending instead of their originally planned ending that did not involve a glowy space kid and some Monty Hall pick-a-door-for-your-ending crap.
 
2013-02-22 09:46:34 AM  
Who knew Sheldon Cooper had so many alts on Fark.
 
2013-02-22 09:46:46 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

Beedeebeedee!
 
2013-02-22 09:47:10 AM  

Teufelaffe: Alphax: supposedly one story got pushed back 2 seasons because someone mentioned something just like it.

People in the entertainment industry who do shiat like that need a nice hard punch in the baby-maker.  Leaked story info is supposedly why Mass Effect 3 ended up getting a terrible, shiatty ending instead of their originally planned ending that did not involve a glowy space kid and some Monty Hall pick-a-door-for-your-ending crap.


I think this was a case of 'oh crap, he mentioned a story idea that we were already working on.. now we have to track down this stranger on the Internet and get him to sign legal documents that he's NOT the one that gave us this idea!'
 
2013-02-22 09:47:24 AM  
Funny, Deep Space Nine premiered in January of 1993.
 
2013-02-22 09:48:36 AM  
Farscape is 20 years old? Who knew...
 
2013-02-22 09:51:30 AM  
 
2013-02-22 09:51:49 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: No no no no, "Jason Of Star Command"  "Quark" came out in 1978!


FTFY.
 
2013-02-22 09:52:49 AM  
I thought Robotech came over in the 80s... Or Star Trek was from the 60s. Same with the original Doctor Who. How can these be 20 now when they are well over 20 years old.
 
2013-02-22 09:54:32 AM  
L O S T started in 2004, silly submitter.
 
2013-02-22 09:55:18 AM  
Quark debuted over 35 years ago.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-22 09:55:19 AM  
I pronounce it "Baby Lon 5", just to annoy everybody, including myself.
 
2013-02-22 09:57:13 AM  
You're about a month late for the 20th anniversary of Deep Space Nine, subby.
 
2013-02-22 09:57:39 AM  
X Minus One, biatches.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:51 AM  
I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

i192.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 09:59:05 AM  

cman: Oh HELL no

DS9 was greater than all other Treks plus Babylon 5 combined.


Even if you prefer DS9, it wouldn't have been what it was without Babylon 5.

Before B5 caught on, DS9 was going to follow the same "standalone episode followed by reset button" formula as TNG. B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

JammerJim: I liked B5, but the acting was really uneven, and JMS couldn't write ordinary human dialogue to save his life.


Next time you watch it, think of it as Londo and G'Kar's story, which happens to include ancillary characters and events. You'll be bothered far less by the weaker actors (especially Patricia Tallman, Jeff Conaway, and that horrible Byron guy) if you watch it with that mindset.
 
2013-02-22 10:00:07 AM  
www.70slivekidvid.com
 
2013-02-22 10:00:28 AM  
Reading this thread, I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by ducks.
 
2013-02-22 10:01:35 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Gwen Stacy had Norman Osborne's children. Therefore B5 is retroactively not great.


That was Joey Q's call. JMS wanted them to be Pete's.
 
2013-02-22 10:02:30 AM  

Alphax: Teufelaffe: Alphax: supposedly one story got pushed back 2 seasons because someone mentioned something just like it.

People in the entertainment industry who do shiat like that need a nice hard punch in the baby-maker.  Leaked story info is supposedly why Mass Effect 3 ended up getting a terrible, shiatty ending instead of their originally planned ending that did not involve a glowy space kid and some Monty Hall pick-a-door-for-your-ending crap.

I think this was a case of 'oh crap, he mentioned a story idea that we were already working on.. now we have to track down this stranger on the Internet and get him to sign legal documents that he's NOT the one that gave us this idea!'


This story doesn't pass the stink test.  If they had a script that they were working on when someone on the internet posted an idea then they have 0 worries.  It is very VERY hard to prove that someone stole your idea.
 
2013-02-22 10:03:02 AM  

Mentat: Reading this thread, I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by ducks . CATS


At least, according to Earth culture enthusiast Vir Cotto..
 
2013-02-22 10:04:29 AM  
notsureifserious.png
 
2013-02-22 10:05:34 AM  
I loved towards the end when G'Kar was a spiritual leader and he mentioned that Narn books are replicated and reprinted exactly the same as the original manuscript, which was why on page 348 there was a giant ring in the middle of the text where Mr Garibaldi had put his coffee mug down while proofreading it.
 
2013-02-22 10:05:58 AM  

Wellon Dowd: Quark debuted over 35 years ago.

[i.imgur.com image 720x544]


Leaving pleased.
 
2013-02-22 10:09:26 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.comu1.ipernity.comwww.tcon.ca

Then again, how could you leave out the Amish is Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace?
 
2013-02-22 10:12:09 AM  

Wellon Dowd: Quark debuted over 35 years ago.

[i.imgur.com image 720x544]


Preach it, Brother!
 
2013-02-22 10:12:17 AM  
I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.
 
2013-02-22 10:12:32 AM  
And I remember grabbing popcorn, watching the pilot and watching it and going meh.  Then caught up again middle of second season when someone told me about the arc and what went on.

Anyone else having fun with the schedule being a constant moving target?
IIRC correctly, it ended up at 10:30 on Saturdays for us after Hercules or Xena

rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 was fun with JMS posting all the time.
//and writing snail mail petitions to get a 5th season.
//still have yet to see season 5 because of the knowledge JMS wrote season 4 as the last season before he got word there would be a 5th
 
2013-02-22 10:14:14 AM  

KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.


It got better after replacing Cardboard Cutout Man with Tron.
 
2013-02-22 10:15:03 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-22 10:15:35 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Gwen Stacy had Norman Osborne's children. Therefore B5 is retroactively not great.


UGH!  Thanks for bringing up that monstrosity again.  JMS killed his rep with that moment.
 
2013-02-22 10:17:27 AM  
This still has my favorite series finale ever of any genre.
 
2013-02-22 10:18:03 AM  
As i said on the DS9 thread at its best B5 is better than DS9 and at its worst B5 is worse than DS9.

Passing through gethsemane just pips far beyond the stars and and the rock cried out is just a bit better than in the pale moonlight.

Either way Mollari, Dukat, G'Kar and Garrick will live on much longer than Sheridan, Sisko, Kira and Ivanova.
 
2013-02-22 10:18:17 AM  
www.dvdizzy.com
 
2013-02-22 10:18:27 AM  

clkeagle: B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.


Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.  And that's just American TV.  I'd be willing to bet that the Brits have something even older that uses story arcs and character development.

/I love the B5 fans who try to make it out to be some innovative show that broke new ground...it was a farking re-write of the Lord of the Rings, ffs.
 
2013-02-22 10:19:12 AM  
I'm still mad nobody got pictures of my cosplaying a female Centaurii at a gamer con. :( Swim cap + makeup + veil = bald chick.
 
2013-02-22 10:19:32 AM  
tillerman35
Also the weird transylvanian accents that those space-vampire looking dudes had were pretty annoying.

MEEstah GariBALdi.

(Actually there was no standard Centari accent. Londo seemed to be only one... as far as I can remember... who had the Dracula-wannabe accent. Vir certainly didn't, and neither did the Mad Emperor or any of Londo's wives. Hang on, Lord Reefa had that accent. But aside from that. That's actually one of the things I liked; after all, it's not like there is a single Human accent.)
 
2013-02-22 10:20:34 AM  
Babylon 5 started off slow, but the second, third, and fourth seasons was consistently about as good as anything you'll see on television.
 
2013-02-22 10:21:09 AM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.


Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.
 
2013-02-22 10:26:01 AM  

Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.


Disagrees:
tvmedia.ign.com
 
2013-02-22 10:29:34 AM  

ConConHead: I'm still mad nobody got pictures of my cosplaying a female Centaurii at a gamer con. :( Swim cap + makeup + veil = bald chick.


You didn't get pictures yourself?
 
2013-02-22 10:34:27 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]


soopey: Farscape is 20 years old? Who knew...


I see you guys have this covered...

/DS9>B5
 
2013-02-22 10:35:31 AM  
Babylon 5 had its flaws, but it fundamently changed TV sci-fi for the better. It made complicated, long term plots the norm for the genre.
 
2013-02-22 10:35:52 AM  
Hard to claim with a straight face that DS9 wasn't a copy of B5 when you even had characters with the same names showing up on DS9.  Duhkat was Delenn's mentor and leader of the Minbari.  Gul Dukat was a leader of the Cardassians.  For just one example.
 
2013-02-22 10:37:31 AM  

JosephFinn: Funny, Deep Space Nine premiered in January of 1993.


And didn't engage into seasonal arc-stories until well after B5 gained popularity.  It was like the previous Treks; an anthology series with the occasional recurring element.  B5 nudged it into truly getting into the story arcs after about three or four years.
 
2013-02-22 10:37:45 AM  

GungFu: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 704x576]

Beedeebeedee!


I came here to say that Buck Rogers in the 25th Century was more than 20 years ago.
I see you've got that covered.
 
2013-02-22 10:38:44 AM  

Teufelaffe: Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.

Disagrees:
[tvmedia.ign.com image 460x345]



That wasn't a story arc. Bruce comes to town, Hulk appears, Mr. McGee appears, Bruce moves on. It was the same thing every week.
 
2013-02-22 10:42:02 AM  

tboucher: This still has my favorite series finale ever of any genre.


True; it was appropriate that the series went out on that note.
 
2013-02-22 10:44:19 AM  

Mugato: Computer graphic FX courtesy of Commodore Vic 20.


They used Lightwave for everything.  I remember hearing that the render time for a single episode was something like a month which they reduced by using several DEC Alphas.

Incidentally, ST Voyager also used Lightwave (not exclusively) but by that time particle and lighting and shading effects has improved quite a bit.  Babylon 5 did quite a good job with what they had.
 
2013-02-22 10:44:35 AM  
i.imgur.com

Now hang your head in shame and slowly walk away subby.
 
2013-02-22 10:44:56 AM  

Mugato: Computer graphic FX courtesy of Commodore Vic 20.


I remember being pretty amazed at what was being done with the Amiga 4s on the show (reputedly).  That said, this is one of those really odd posts . . . cool because of the commodore reference?  Troll because the reference the Vic-20? or sort of a quasi-amusing in joke?

I just don't know.

All science fiction relies on previous successes.  I guess as far as this thread goes, I'm an Agsfse.

\\ Agreatestsciencefictionshowever.
\ doesn't roll off the tongue.
 
2013-02-22 10:45:04 AM  
B5 was far, far better than *any* Star Trek, and to this day I refuse to trust anyone but JMS for writing multi-season plot arcs.
 
2013-02-22 10:46:50 AM  

inert: [i.imgur.com image 320x240]

Now hang your head in shame and slowly walk away subby.


Not American.  (not subby, but I like the link)
 
2013-02-22 10:47:09 AM  
I've watched the entire series before, but it was on Netflix for about a month and I got to rewatch S1, then it got dropped and hasn't reappeared.
 
2013-02-22 10:51:23 AM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: clkeagle: B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.  And that's just American TV.  I'd be willing to bet that the Brits have something even older that uses story arcs and character development.


Hell, Dynasty and Dallas did the same kinds of things way back when and before that there were soap operas and radio program serials and comic books that had long story arcs and character development.  It's not a new concept at all.
 
2013-02-22 10:51:55 AM  
Ahem.

Babylon 5's a big pile of shiate!
blogs.e-rockford.com
/hot
 
2013-02-22 10:52:24 AM  

Teufelaffe: Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.

Disagrees:
[tvmedia.ign.com image 460x345]


Piss off
 
2013-02-22 10:53:07 AM  
Red Dwarf is alot older than that.
 
2013-02-22 10:54:04 AM  

KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.


Typical methodology to watch Babylon 5:

- Slog through Season 1. Duration: Months.
- Watch Season 2. Duration: A few weeks.
- Watch Season 3. Duration: 18 hours.
Note -- may be longer if you borrowed the set and the person doesn't answer the door at 3 AM in the morning.
- Watch Season 4. Duration: 18 hours.Take a day to recoup.
- Watch the original TNT movies. Duration: a day.
- Watch Season 5. Duration: a few days. May skip over the Telepath Arc. Be sure to buy Kleenex in bulk.
- Rewatch Season 1 to pick out the foreshadowing.

/
 
2013-02-22 10:54:17 AM  

kumanoki: Red Dwarf is alot older than that.


I'd call it a sitcom.. though I usually can't stand those anymore.
 
2013-02-22 10:54:44 AM  
www.oocities.org

woot!
 
2013-02-22 10:54:48 AM  

macadamnut: Teufelaffe: Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.

Disagrees:
[tvmedia.ign.com image 460x345]


That wasn't a story arc. Bruce comes to town, Hulk appears, Mr. McGee appears, Bruce moves on. It was the same thing every week.


If McGee stayed the same throughout the series, I'd agree.  But, his character definitely changed over the course of the show based on events from multiple episodes, thereby checking both the "story arc" and "character development" boxes.  Whether one likes B5 or not doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the first "genre TV" show to do those things.  Hell, Doctor Who pre-dates B5 by 20 years, and you'd have to be insane to try and claim that show didn't have story arcs.
 
2013-02-22 10:57:00 AM  

GameSprocket: [www.oocities.org image 320x320]

woot!


I remember that show. It was on for ... two seconds before it was cancelled?
 
2013-02-22 10:59:22 AM  

Persnickety: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: clkeagle: B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.  And that's just American TV.  I'd be willing to bet that the Brits have something even older that uses story arcs and character development.

Hell, Dynasty and Dallas did the same kinds of things way back when and before that there were soap operas and radio program serials and comic books that had long story arcs and character development.  It's not a new concept at all.


I don't think those count as "genre television".  But if we're going to just say all television, I Love Lucy had a pregnancy story arc, and that was 30 years before B5.
 
2013-02-22 11:00:22 AM  

Persnickety: Dynasty and Dallas did the same kinds of things way back when and before that there were soap operas


Dynasty and Dallas  were soap operas. They were attempts to move the format of the soap opera into prime time with prime time production values. All of the examples you list, however, don't map to B5 for one simple reason: B5 had a determined end-date.

American television, as a rule, produces episodes with one goal in mind: to sell enough ads to justify producing more episodes. Telling a compact story with a determined ending is not in the cards for pretty much any series, and that's true even today. For every B5 and "Breaking Bad", you have six meandering "Lost"s.

The key to being a sellable TV show, from a network perspective, is being  open ended, not closed. If a show takes off, the network wants to be able to keep that show on the air until public interest wanes. If they can keep an audience for ten seasons, then by god, they're going to keep that show running.
 
2013-02-22 11:01:22 AM  

Mentat: Reading this thread, I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by ducks.


Londo: But this - this, this, this is like being nibbled to death by... what are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet, go "quack"?
Vir: ... Cats!
Londo: Cats. Being nibbled to death by cats.

/just watched that episode the other day
 
2013-02-22 11:05:32 AM  

Teufelaffe: macadamnut: Teufelaffe: Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.

Disagrees:
[tvmedia.ign.com image 460x345]


That wasn't a story arc. Bruce comes to town, Hulk appears, Mr. McGee appears, Bruce moves on. It was the same thing every week.

If McGee stayed the same throughout the series, I'd agree.  But, his character definitely changed over the course of the show based on events from multiple episodes, thereby checking both the "story arc" and "character development" boxes.  Whether one likes B5 or not doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the first "genre TV" show to do those things.  Hell, Doctor Who pre-dates B5 by 20 years, and you'd have to be insane to try and claim that show didn't have story arcs.


Key To Time... one 26 episode season based on finding and assembling the Key To Time.

It was either 1978 or 1979.

And that's just the most obvious example. You could go back to Jon Pertwee's tenure and say that the whole "Doctor stranded on Earth" thing was a three season long story-arc.

/and you could probably go back to Hartnell or Troughton's time, but why rub it in?
 
2013-02-22 11:07:10 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-22 11:08:01 AM  

StopLurkListen: GameSprocket: [www.oocities.org image 320x320]

woot!

I remember that show. It was on for ... two seconds before it was cancelled?


Nah, it was with the old syndication model that nobody does anymore, IIRC it was packaged with Total Recall The Series, and those two were always on right after Xena and Hercules.
 
2013-02-22 11:09:19 AM  
Since Quark has been mentioned... I present to you this...

www.vampirerave.com
 
2013-02-22 11:09:49 AM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: clkeagle: B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.  And that's just American TV.  I'd be willing to bet that the Brits have something even older that uses story arcs and character development.

/I love the B5 fans who try to make it out to be some innovative show that broke new ground...it was a farking re-write of the Lord of the Rings, ffs.


I would think "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" by Brits can be seen in shows like Doctor Who. The Doctor's regeneration, for example, can be a character development. Who will he become next and how will he act. They did have many story arcs that went on for episodes at a time. Even as a seasonal story arc some times.
 
2013-02-22 11:10:19 AM  

Cyno01: StopLurkListen: GameSprocket: [www.oocities.org image 320x320]

woot!

I remember that show. It was on for ... two seconds before it was cancelled?

Nah, it was with the old syndication model that nobody does anymore, IIRC it was packaged with Total Recall The Series, and those two were always on right after Xena and Hercules.


It was part of the Back to Back Action Hour (or whatever they called it) along with Jack of All Trades, I think.  At least that's what I remember from the ads.
 
2013-02-22 11:11:10 AM  

GameSprocket: [www.oocities.org image 320x320]

woot!


Cleopatra 2525?
 
2013-02-22 11:11:59 AM  

Surly U. Jest: [upload.wikimedia.org image 500x280]


I think B5 predates SG.  And B5 had a far, far overall plot arc, though I I really did enjoy the actors in SG.
 
2013-02-22 11:12:33 AM  

Teufelaffe: Cyno01: StopLurkListen: GameSprocket: [www.oocities.org image 320x320]

woot!

I remember that show. It was on for ... two seconds before it was cancelled?

Nah, it was with the old syndication model that nobody does anymore, IIRC it was packaged with Total Recall The Series, and those two were always on right after Xena and Hercules.

It was part of the Back to Back Action Hour (or whatever they called it) along with Jack of All Trades, I think.  At least that's what I remember from the ads.


Jack of all trades, Joxter the Mighty and Cleopatra 2525. Those three shows were awesome when I was kid.
 
2013-02-22 11:12:50 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

Typical methodology to watch Babylon 5:

- Slog through Season 1. Duration: Months.
- Watch Season 2. Duration: A few weeks.
- Watch Season 3. Duration: 18 hours.
Note -- may be longer if you borrowed the set and the person doesn't answer the door at 3 AM in the morning.
- Watch Season 4. Duration: 18 hours.Take a day to recoup.
- Watch the original TNT movies. Duration: a day.
- Watch Season 5. Duration: a few days. May skip over the Telepath Arc. Be sure to buy Kleenex in bulk.
- Rewatch Season 1 to pick out the foreshadowing.

/


- Ignore the last Direct-to-DVD movie that completely destroyed the Emperor Londo storyline.
 
2013-02-22 11:13:42 AM  
Firefly isn't that old
 
2013-02-22 11:14:40 AM  

Petey4335: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

It got better after replacing Cardboard Cutout Man with Tron.


i1135.photobucket.com

Don't remember him making an appearance.
 
2013-02-22 11:16:09 AM  
I defy anyone to name a sci-fi series finale that can top the finale of Babylon 5. "Sleeping in Light" is still one of the greatest final episodes of all time. Say what you will about the series, it knew how to end with a bang. Lost? Battlestar Galactica? They don't even come close, and I suppose B5 ruined me on final episodes because after that one, every one since has been found lacking.
 
2013-02-22 11:16:12 AM  
Funny, Didn't think Space Above and Beyond was that old.
 
2013-02-22 11:17:17 AM  
I thought this may have been about SG:1. Great show, though they did kind of botch the last few seasons with the Ori thing.... though I do love that they got Morena Baccarin to be in it. That woman is stunning, moreso in person from what I hear.
 
2013-02-22 11:18:51 AM  

Teufelaffe: Cyno01: StopLurkListen: GameSprocket: [www.oocities.org image 320x320]

woot!

I remember that show. It was on for ... two seconds before it was cancelled?

Nah, it was with the old syndication model that nobody does anymore, IIRC it was packaged with Total Recall The Series, and those two were always on right after Xena and Hercules.

It was part of the Back to Back Action Hour (or whatever they called it) along with Jack of All Trades, I think.  At least that's what I remember from the ads.


How the fark did i forget Jack of All Trades? Love that show so much.
 
2013-02-22 11:19:25 AM  
I love the idea of people arguing that "The Incredible Hulk" was groundbreaking television just so they don't have to say anything nice about B5.

As someone who was watching it as it aired, it was a refreshing break from "Boring Moving Hilton in Space" that ST:TNG was becoming and DS9 started off as.
 
2013-02-22 11:19:39 AM  
Automan is older than 20 years last I knew.
 
2013-02-22 11:19:39 AM  
Quantum Leap?
 
2013-02-22 11:20:41 AM  
OtherLittleGuy:

Typical methodology to watch Babylon 5:

- Slog through Season 1. Duration: Months.
- Watch Season 2. Duration: A few weeks.
- Watch Season 3. Duration: 18 hours.
Note -- may be longer if you borrowed the set and the person doesn't answer the door at 3 AM in the morning.
- Watch Season 4. Duration: 18 hours.Take a day to recoup.
- Watch the original TNT movies. Duration: a day.
- Watch Season 5. Duration: a few days. May skip over the Telepath Arc. Be sure to buy Kleenex in bulk.
- Rewatch Season 1 to pick out the foreshadowing.


Well put and pretty accurate. I was pretty misty when the finale aired. It made up for the unfortunate mess of Season 5, but I think JMS did as well as he could with what he had to work with story-and-actor-wise when S5 started. I forgive him.

/Still upset we never got any stories about the actual Telepath War - TV, movies, or novels.
//Still want to know more about David Corwin. Untapped character development pisses me off.
 
2013-02-22 11:20:45 AM  
Pretty certain it hasn't been 20 years since Firefly was on.

Keep meaning to watch B5, never gotten around to it. Was a Trek/Xfiles fan back then.
 
2013-02-22 11:21:11 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Key To Time... one 26 episode season based on finding and assembling the Key To Time.


That's a very loose story arc. That's like saying  Heavy Metal is a single unified story because that green orb thing was in every vignette. By that logic, pretty much everything from the Key to Time through all of Turlough's stories were a single arc, since it all tied together with the randomized TARDIS controls and the Black Guardian.

FirstNationalBastard: You could go back to Jon Pertwee's tenure and say that the whole "Doctor stranded on Earth" thing was a three season long story-arc.


That's a stretch. It was a conceit the show used to change its premise for a variety of production reasons.
 
2013-02-22 11:25:42 AM  

soopey: Farscape is 20 years old? Who knew...


Cannot be repeated enough.
 
2013-02-22 11:27:06 AM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: soopey: Farscape is 20 years old? Who knew...

Cannot be repeated enough.


I think "Farscape" is notable for having an even broader variation in quality than B5. When it was good, which was much of the time, it was a great show. When it got bad, it got  baaaaaadddd.
 
2013-02-22 11:27:06 AM  
earthprime.com

Wasn't so bad. There. I said it. At least for the first 2 seasons. Everything after Arturo being killed sucks.
 
2013-02-22 11:27:34 AM  

Sybarite: The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.


My favourite Kosh quote.  And applicable in so many real life situations, with a little tinkering.
 
2013-02-22 11:29:51 AM  

soopey: Wasn't so bad. There. I said it. At least for the first 2 seasons. Everything after Arturo being killed sucks.


It actually sucked pretty quickly, as the writers made it into a weekly "fascist dictator ruling alternative America with stalwart freedom fighters" wank-fest.
 
2013-02-22 11:30:05 AM  

macadamnut: Teufelaffe: Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.

Disagrees:
[tvmedia.ign.com image 460x345]


That wasn't a story arc. Bruce comes to town, Hulk appears, Mr. McGee appears, Bruce moves on. It was the same thing every week.


David, there was no Bruce.  The network thought Bruce sounded gay.
 
2013-02-22 11:30:25 AM  

Lexx: B5 was far, far better than *any* Star Trek, and to this day I refuse to trust anyone but JMS for writing multi-season plot arcs.


With your handle I'd have thought you'd talk about some other show...
 
2013-02-22 11:32:24 AM  

soporific: I defy anyone to name a sci-fi series finale that can top the finale of Babylon 5. "Sleeping in Light" is still one of the greatest final episodes of all time. Say what you will about the series, it knew how to end with a bang. Lost? Battlestar Galactica? They don't even come close, and I suppose B5 ruined me on final episodes because after that one, every one since has been found lacking.


I though "All Good Things"(ST:TNG) was awesome and should have been a movie.
 
2013-02-22 11:34:31 AM  

t3knomanser: Satan's Bunny Slippers: soopey: Farscape is 20 years old? Who knew...

Cannot be repeated enough.

I think "Farscape" is notable for having an even broader variation in quality than B5. When it was good, which was much of the time, it was a great show. When it got bad, it got  baaaaaadddd.


OK, I can live with that.  I tried to watch B5/DS9/SG-1 and some others.  They ALL disappointed me, even my beloved Farscape in the end.  Either I couldn't get through enough episodes to care (B5/DS9) or by second or third season they went straight to shiat (SG-1/X Files).  But I'll also admit to being harder to entertain the older I get.  The trend to go straight to stupid is getting faster and faster with all shows now.

But I have the fondest memories of Farscape.
 
2013-02-22 11:34:39 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]


I agree that DS9 is killer. I need to watch B5 now to confirm DS9's superiority.

I tried rrrrrreally hard to like Farscape but it was so hit/miss. Never established consistently quality episodes.
 
2013-02-22 11:35:05 AM  

Callous: macadamnut: Teufelaffe: Alphax: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Sorry, but The Incredible Hulk used the "simple concepts of story arcs and character development" and pre-dates B5 by 15+ years.

Uh, I watched that show as a kid.. I remember no story arcs, nothing carrying over from one episode to another.

Disagrees:
[tvmedia.ign.com image 460x345]


That wasn't a story arc. Bruce comes to town, Hulk appears, Mr. McGee appears, Bruce moves on. It was the same thing every week.

David, there was no Bruce.  The network thought Bruce sounded gay.


And their other suggestions, "Lance" and "Julian" were also quickly shot down.

/Still don't see why they had to go with David. Banner's full name in the comics is "Robert Bruce Banner". Was Bob or Rob or even Robert not to their liking?
 
2013-02-22 11:35:15 AM  

Tanukis_Parachute: Since Quark has been mentioned... I present to you this...

[www.vampirerave.com image 308x400]


Yet another so-bad-it's-good one.

Going back even further, I present you with this:

api.ning.com
 
2013-02-22 11:35:25 AM  

KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.


My struggles with B5 are known on various threads over the past few weeks, but I've had the same experience.  I will continue saying the same thing: SF fans are so used to getting shiat on that they now expect it and then ask for more.  Even the most diehard B5 fans will say stuff like: "It was the greatest show ever.  I mean, season 1 and 5 sucked, but 2, 3, and 4 totally rocked!"  In other words, about 40% of the episodes are acknowledged by fans are being pretty crappy.  This somehow makes it a great show.

\heard the same argument for pretty much every other SF show
\\SFX reviewed the Blu-Ray for season 2 of Star Trek: TNG, and said that you should get it because it had three or four high quality episodes on there
\\\that's a hundred bucks or more for about three hours of quality SF
 
2013-02-22 11:35:55 AM  

Callous: soporific: I defy anyone to name a sci-fi series finale that can top the finale of Babylon 5. "Sleeping in Light" is still one of the greatest final episodes of all time. Say what you will about the series, it knew how to end with a bang. Lost? Battlestar Galactica? They don't even come close, and I suppose B5 ruined me on final episodes because after that one, every one since has been found lacking.

I though "All Good Things"(ST:TNG) was awesome and should have been a movie.


I can not say much because I never really watched Babylon 5 but I am a Trekie and I have to admit. All Good Things was a great season finally. The last line by Picard "Should of done this a long time ago" was a great way to end TNG series.
 
2013-02-22 11:36:40 AM  

soporific: I defy anyone to name a sci-fi series finale that can top the finale of Babylon 5. "Sleeping in Light" is still one of the greatest final episodes of all time. Say what you will about the series, it knew how to end with a bang. Lost? Battlestar Galactica? They don't even come close, and I suppose B5 ruined me on final episodes because after that one, every one since has been found lacking.


Not in the finale, but still my favorite scene.

"Actually, now that you mention it..."
 
2013-02-22 11:37:08 AM  
Alphax: Teufelaffe: Alphax: supposedly one story got pushed back 2 seasons because someone mentioned something just like it.

People in the entertainment industry who do shiat like that need a nice hard punch in the baby-maker.  Leaked story info is supposedly why Mass Effect 3 ended up getting a terrible, shiatty ending instead of their originally planned ending that did not involve a glowy space kid and some Monty Hall pick-a-door-for-your-ending crap.

I think this was a case of 'oh crap, he mentioned a story idea that we were already working on.. now we have to track down this stranger on the Internet and get him to sign legal documents that he's NOT the one that gave us this idea!'

This story doesn't pass the stink test.  If they had a script that they were working on when someone on the internet posted an idea then they have 0 worries.  It is very VERY hard to prove that someone stole your idea.


It is true - the episode is called "Passing through Gethsemane". JMS talks about it here (scroll to the bottom): http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/048.html

The episode in question dealt with a murderer who'd been caught, tried, convicted and mindwiped so he had no idea of the crimes he committed and consigned to a life of service. One of the victim's family members tracks him down since he thought the murderer got off easy.

What JMS wrote in the above link was: "On another service, someone without considering what he was saying (not his fault, it just happened) said, in essence, "What if somebody on B5 found out that he had been mind-wiped, and used to be something awful previously?" Well, I'd had "Passing Through Gethsemane" on the wire at that time, but when I saw this, I had to scuttle the story. It lay there, untouched, for over a year, until I could finally meet the fellow and get a signed release indicating what'd happened. If that fan had not been fair and reasonable, that episode -- which many consider one of our best -- would never have been made.".
 
2013-02-22 11:37:12 AM  
Power Rangers didn't start until August 28, 1993.  You're a few months early.
 
2013-02-22 11:37:34 AM  

yves0010: Callous: soporific: I defy anyone to name a sci-fi series finale that can top the finale of Babylon 5. "Sleeping in Light" is still one of the greatest final episodes of all time. Say what you will about the series, it knew how to end with a bang. Lost? Battlestar Galactica? They don't even come close, and I suppose B5 ruined me on final episodes because after that one, every one since has been found lacking.

I though "All Good Things"(ST:TNG) was awesome and should have been a movie.

I can not say much because I never really watched Babylon 5 but I am a Trekie and I have to admit. All Good Things was a great season finally. The last line by Picard "Should of done this a long time ago" was a great way to end TNG series.


Picard's last line would have been even better if he had been shooting Wesley while nailing Beverly.
 
2013-02-22 11:37:58 AM  

soopey: Everything after Arturo being killed sucks.


You know what else sucked after Arturo got killed?

application.denofgeek.com
 
2013-02-22 11:40:55 AM  
clkeagle:B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

1982 would like a word with you:

galacticwatercooler.com
 
2013-02-22 11:41:42 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: yves0010: Callous: soporific: I defy anyone to name a sci-fi series finale that can top the finale of Babylon 5. "Sleeping in Light" is still one of the greatest final episodes of all time. Say what you will about the series, it knew how to end with a bang. Lost? Battlestar Galactica? They don't even come close, and I suppose B5 ruined me on final episodes because after that one, every one since has been found lacking.

I though "All Good Things"(ST:TNG) was awesome and should have been a movie.

I can not say much because I never really watched Babylon 5 but I am a Trekie and I have to admit. All Good Things was a great season finally. The last line by Picard "Should of done this a long time ago" was a great way to end TNG series.

Picard's last line would have been even better if he had been shooting Wesley while nailing Beverly.


I like how that relationship was still in the "are they / could they " playing field even through the movies. And I also like the idea that Wesley might of been Picard's child. I heard one of those fan theories and it actually makes up for the whole "Shut Up Welsey" lines that happen every episode. But yes, it could of been better if Wesley was done in some how. Or made his character a lot more bad ass as he grew up.
 
2013-02-22 11:42:28 AM  

Click Click D'oh: clkeagle:B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

1982 would like a word with you:

[galacticwatercooler.com image 450x369]


Good old Robotech.. I mean Macross.
 
2013-02-22 11:42:54 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: "It was the greatest show ever.  I mean, season 1 and 5 sucked, but 2, 3, and 4 totally rocked!"


Neither season 1 nor 5 sucked, but neither was up to the standards of the rest of the series. The biggest challenge that B5 has is its production values. The sets were awful, the special effects were rough, and the acting- yeesh, some of those bit parts they'd bring in. Oh, and then there's that Penn and Teller themed episode written by Neil Gaiman. ACK, that was awful.
 
2013-02-22 11:45:14 AM  
I enjoyed B5, and I loved how the physics for space flight didn't mimic atmospheric flight, but looked more as I imagined flight in space would look and that there were continuous beam lasers.
I was a bit burned out on Star Trek after TNG, so I never watched much DS9. If it's as good as everyone says, I guess I should go back and check it out.
Glad some others mentioned SG1.
 
2013-02-22 11:47:08 AM  

flaminio: Lexx: B5 was far, far better than *any* Star Trek, and to this day I refuse to trust anyone but JMS for writing multi-season plot arcs.

With your handle I'd have thought you'd talk about some other show...


Ahaha that's more a personal nickname than a reference to the show.  I did love the 3rd season though, Prince was a great character.
 
2013-02-22 11:47:38 AM  

dittybopper: Tanukis_Parachute: Since Quark has been mentioned... I present to you this...

[www.vampirerave.com image 308x400]

Yet another so-bad-it's-good one.

Going back even further, I present you with this:

[api.ning.com image 424x260]


Let me also point out that I'd climb all over Fuji:

images1.wikia.nocookie.net

She's held up well.
 
2013-02-22 11:49:25 AM  
magnus.vanosten.se
 
2013-02-22 11:49:42 AM  
20 years? You kids get off my lawn! The greatest sci-fi program ever was...

thewickedwriters.files.wordpress.com

Salvage 1, featuring Matlock... I mean, Andy Griffith!
 
2013-02-22 11:50:59 AM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: soopey: Farscape is 20 years old? Who knew...

Cannot be repeated enough.

B5, Farscape, SG1, Firefly, BSG were all great because of the story arcs.
 
2013-02-22 11:51:57 AM  

Richard Sauce: PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]

I agree that DS9 is killer. I need to watch B5 now to confirm DS9's superiority.

I tried rrrrrreally hard to like Farscape but it was so hit/miss. Never established consistently quality episodes.


The first season is pretty rough, but once they introduce Scorpius and Harvey its all pretty great with a handful of exceptions.
 
2013-02-22 11:53:56 AM  

theorellior: I love the idea of people arguing that "The Incredible Hulk" was groundbreaking television just so they don't have to say anything nice about B5.

As someone who was watching it as it aired, it was a refreshing break from "Boring Moving Hilton in Space" that ST:TNG was becoming and DS9 started off as.


If you look really carefully, no one has called The Incredible Hulk "groundbreaking television."  We've simply stated that B5 doing something that has been done before is obviously not groundbreaking on B5's part.  I've never seen the show, and have no particularly negative view of it, but for someone to pop in here and suggest that it was the first "genre television" program to have story arcs and character development is just stupid.
 
2013-02-22 12:01:44 PM  

vudukungfu: Firefly isn't that old

 
2013-02-22 12:03:53 PM  

Gleeman: Firefly


COMBO BREAKER!!

/ Surprised the thread made it that long
// Best.spaceshow.ever
/// Well, after Thunderbirds
 
2013-02-22 12:05:43 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: And that's just American TV. I'd be willing to bet that the Brits have something even older that uses story arcs and character development.


Anyone recall a little series called Blake's 7?  Beat all of 'em to the punch by a couple decades.
 
2013-02-22 12:09:08 PM  

Cyno01: Richard Sauce: PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]

I agree that DS9 is killer. I need to watch B5 now to confirm DS9's superiority.

I tried rrrrrreally hard to like Farscape but it was so hit/miss. Never established consistently quality episodes.

The first season is pretty rough, but once they introduce Scorpius and Harvey its all pretty great with a handful of exceptions.


I have to say that, and I just started watching Farscape for the first time, that the first dozen episodes were pretty brutal.  And then they somehow just took off a few episodes before Chianna arrived.  The quality has been pretty consistent after that.

\still not really liking Chianna at all
 
2013-02-22 12:10:06 PM  
static.btvguide.com
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

There - have three. No - no - make it four:

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-02-22 12:10:20 PM  
1-media-cdn.foolz.us
"We don't watch Babylon 5."
 
2013-02-22 12:11:00 PM  

Son of Thunder: Lord Reefa had that accent.


"It's a small p'dice to pay, for immor-TAL-ity..."
 
2013-02-22 12:12:40 PM  
What article says: "Show X was first Y show to do A, B, C and D"
What farkers read: "Your favorite Y show sucks"
 
2013-02-22 12:14:14 PM  
Futurama premiered in 1993?
 
2013-02-22 12:16:17 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Cyno01: Richard Sauce: PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]

I agree that DS9 is killer. I need to watch B5 now to confirm DS9's superiority.

I tried rrrrrreally hard to like Farscape but it was so hit/miss. Never established consistently quality episodes.

The first season is pretty rough, but once they introduce Scorpius and Harvey its all pretty great with a handful of exceptions.

I have to say that, and I just started watching Farscape for the first time, that the first dozen episodes were pretty brutal.  And then they somehow just took off a few episodes before Chianna arrived.  The quality has been pretty consistent after that.

\still not really liking Chianna at all


She gets better - just wait for the redhead.
 
2013-02-22 12:17:23 PM  
Was hoping this would be B% when I saw the link, leaving satisfied, except tp amplify this line from TFA:
"and Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski also changed the rules for TV creators by actively engaging his fanbase online during the show's production. "

CSB:
I was On a FIDONET B-5 discussion forum (wasn't even linked to the USenet at the time IIRC) and bunch of us DC area fans decided to do an episode watching party at this one guy's houe who had a 100in projection screen and surround sound in his basement (remember the Dot-Com era was just dawning and geeks were suddenly finding themselves RICH)  al totalled there ware about 50 or so attendees.  Somehow JMS got wind of the gathering and offered to call us after the show to discuss it with us (IIRC it was the episode where the white star fought the shadow ship in earth's solar system).  I think we were all expecting a five min call where he said a few words and got back to his busy life.  what we got was more than an hour of in-depth Q&A where he engaged us in serious philosphical discussion about the nature of good and evil , told anecdotes about the day's filming (which had just wrapped) and funny stories about the cast.

As a geek I was blown away (it was just below the time I ended up chatting with Issac Asimov at a con for 20 minutes) and I think it was that direct fan engagement by JMS that helped make B5 some of the most fanatically loyal in all of SF-we really felt the show was an ongoing dialogue with us and for the first time it was a two-way conversation
 
2013-02-22 12:17:37 PM  
wow 20 years already . damn i feel old.

/hopes subby feels old too.
 
2013-02-22 12:19:20 PM  

Sybarite: The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.


My favorite quote from the series.
 
2013-02-22 12:20:46 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Cyno01: Richard Sauce: PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]

I agree that DS9 is killer. I need to watch B5 now to confirm DS9's superiority.

I tried rrrrrreally hard to like Farscape but it was so hit/miss. Never established consistently quality episodes.

The first season is pretty rough, but once they introduce Scorpius and Harvey its all pretty great with a handful of exceptions.

I have to say that, and I just started watching Farscape for the first time, that the first dozen episodes were pretty brutal.  And then they somehow just took off a few episodes before Chianna arrived.  The quality has been pretty consistent after that.

\still not really liking Chianna at all


Shes not really there to be liked, but shes still better than Jool who was just there to be actively disliked.
 
2013-02-22 12:20:46 PM  

Magorn: Was hoping this would be B% when I saw the link, leaving satisfied, except tp amplify this line from TFA:
"and Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski also changed the rules for TV creators by actively engaging his fanbase online during the show's production. "

CSB:
I was On a FIDONET B-5 discussion forum (wasn't even linked to the USenet at the time IIRC) and bunch of us DC area fans decided to do an episode watching party at this one guy's houe who had a 100in projection screen and surround sound in his basement (remember the Dot-Com era was just dawning and geeks were suddenly finding themselves RICH)  al totalled there ware about 50 or so attendees.  Somehow JMS got wind of the gathering and offered to call us after the show to discuss it with us (IIRC it was the episode where the white star fought the shadow ship in earth's solar system).  I think we were all expecting a five min call where he said a few words and got back to his busy life.  what we got was more than an hour of in-depth Q&A where he engaged us in serious philosphical discussion about the nature of good and evil , told anecdotes about the day's filming (which had just wrapped) and funny stories about the cast.

As a geek I was blown away (it was just below the time I ended up chatting with Issac Asimov at a con for 20 minutes) and I think it was that direct fan engagement by JMS that helped make B5 some of the most fanatically loyal in all of SF-we really felt the show was an ongoing dialogue with us and for the first time it was a two-way conversation


That is one of the best CSB's I ever read
 
2013-02-22 12:24:51 PM  

jrg1199: /Still upset we never got any stories about the actual Telepath War - TV, movies, or novels.
//Still want to know more about David Corwin. Untapped character development pisses me off.


I was certain there were novels about the Telepath War. Particularly that trillogy about Bester.
 
2013-02-22 12:26:50 PM  
For me B5 will always be the king of SciFi TV.  There are other greats but B5 hands down.

I wish Netflix would pick Farscape back up.  I never did watch its original airing regularly but enjoyed it.  Found it a few months back and they pull it after I get to 1:3.... Bah.
 
2013-02-22 12:28:58 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

My struggles with B5 are known on various threads over the past few weeks, but I've had the same experience.  I will continue saying the same thing: SF fans are so used to getting shiat on that they now expect it and then ask for more.  Even the most diehard B5 fans will say stuff like: "It was the greatest show ever.  I mean, season 1 and 5 sucked, but 2, 3, and 4 totally rocked!"  In other words, about 40% of the episodes are acknowledged by fans are being pretty crappy.  This somehow makes it a great show.

\heard the same argument for pretty much every other SF show
\\SFX reviewed the Blu-Ray for season 2 of Star Trek: TNG, and said that you should get it because it had three or four high quality episodes on there
\\\that's a hundred bucks or more for about three hours of quality SF


This is pretty much how I feel. Saying "B5 is the greatest Sci Fi show of all time" is just pointing out the low quality of TV Sci Fi.
 
2013-02-22 12:30:35 PM  

Norfolking Chance: As i said on the DS9 thread at its best B5 is better than DS9 and at its worst B5 is worse than DS9.

Passing through gethsemane just pips far beyond the stars and and the rock cried out is just a bit better than in the pale moonlight.

Either way Mollari, Dukat, G'Kar and Garrick will live on much longer than Sheridan, Sisko, Kira and Ivanova.


DS9 fails in my mind because I couldn't stop laughing out loud during the Big Dramatic war scenes when spectacularly inept dialogue came from the mouths of the main characters because of writers who didn't give a second's thought to what actual space warfare might be like, or hell, even had a decent grasp of naval warfare.

Everytime I happen to see the episode with the big fleet battle where  Sisco goes on about breaking the enemy's LINES I die a little inside that sucha  great actor is being used so poorly.

JMS was MUCH better at that stuff, and "Severed Dreams" was an utterly amazing example of what the "war " season of DS9 SHOULD have been like with competent writers

and I will fight anyone who thinks that "confessions and lamentations" isn't some of the best farking writing in TV SF since Harlan Ellison's "City on the edge of Forever"
 
2013-02-22 12:31:44 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

My struggles with B5 are known on various threads over the past few weeks, but I've had the same experience.  I will continue saying the same thing: SF fans are so used to getting shiat on that they now expect it and then ask for more.  Even the most diehard B5 fans will say stuff like: "It was the greatest show ever.  I mean, season 1 and 5 sucked, but 2, 3, and 4 totally rocked!"  In other words, about 40% of the episodes are acknowledged by fans are being pretty crappy.  This somehow makes it a great show.

\heard the same argument for pretty much every other SF show
\\SFX reviewed the Blu-Ray for season 2 of Star Trek: TNG, and said that you should get it because it had three or four high quality episodes on there
\\\that's a hundred bucks or more for about three hours of quality SF


B5 has a higher hit to miss ratio than most other Science Fiction, especially when taken in the context of its time.  And I would disagree with the notion "Seasons 1 and 5 suck."  They are less successful than seasons 2 - 4, but there are fantastic episodes in those seasons and they shouldn't just be written off.  Even the so-called garbage episodes have redeeming elements.  TKO, considered one of the worst episodes in the series, has a beautiful B story about Ivanova sitting shiva for her father.
 
2013-02-22 12:33:54 PM  
whizbangthedirtfarmer: Cyno01: Richard Sauce: PIP_the_TROLL: I'll back  you a long way on B5 - it was a really good show. I think DS9 just edges it out though.

Besides, everybody knows what the best scifi show of all time is:

[i192.photobucket.com image 640x480]

I agree that DS9 is killer. I need to watch B5 now to confirm DS9's superiority.

I tried rrrrrreally hard to like Farscape but it was so hit/miss. Never established consistently quality episodes.

The first season is pretty rough, but once they introduce Scorpius and Harvey its all pretty great with a handful of exceptions.

I have to say that, and I just started watching Farscape for the first time, that the first dozen episodes were pretty brutal.  And then they somehow just took off a few episodes before Chianna arrived.  The quality has been pretty consistent after that.

\still not really liking Chianna at all

She gets better - just wait for the redhead.


You should really be more specific. Jool was always annoying as a pampered screamer. Sikozu was a much more capable character, though she rapidly went downhill for her blind obedience to Scorpius.
But you're right, the series is pretty consistently good after about the first half of season one.
 
2013-02-22 12:35:05 PM  
nicksaganprojects.com
 
2013-02-22 12:35:30 PM  

WorkingInParadise: 20 years? You kids get off my lawn! The greatest sci-fi program ever was...

[thewickedwriters.files.wordpress.com image 435x580]

Salvage 1, featuring Matlock... I mean, Andy Griffith!


Wow, that just sparked a memory I didn't know I had. I need to investigate that show further to see what in the world I was watching way back when.
 
2013-02-22 12:37:06 PM  
War of the Worlds (1938).

Now get off Orson Welles' lawn.

/John Houseman produced that broadcast.
 
2013-02-22 12:40:12 PM  
Still wondering if they ever got home.
www.mediacollectibles.com
 
2013-02-22 12:40:15 PM  

Omnivorous: War of the Worlds (1938).

Now get off Orson Welles' lawn.

/John Houseman produced that broadcast.


I downloaded that radio show and I never looked back. I love it and listen to it often. That show gives me the creeps some times. Just how it was done.
 
2013-02-22 12:42:35 PM  
Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,
 
2013-02-22 12:43:07 PM  

Wellon Dowd: Quark debuted over 35 years ago.

[i.imgur.com image 720x544]


I LOVED THAT RIDICULOUS SHOW!
 
2013-02-22 12:46:11 PM  

Stile4aly: whizbangthedirtfarmer: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

My struggles with B5 are known on various threads over the past few weeks, but I've had the same experience.  I will continue saying the same thing: SF fans are so used to getting shiat on that they now expect it and then ask for more.  Even the most diehard B5 fans will say stuff like: "It was the greatest show ever.  I mean, season 1 and 5 sucked, but 2, 3, and 4 totally rocked!"  In other words, about 40% of the episodes are acknowledged by fans are being pretty crappy.  This somehow makes it a great show.

\heard the same argument for pretty much every other SF show
\\SFX reviewed the Blu-Ray for season 2 of Star Trek: TNG, and said that you should get it because it had three or four high quality episodes on there
\\\that's a hundred bucks or more for about three hours of quality SF

B5 has a higher hit to miss ratio than most other Science Fiction, especially when taken in the context of its time.  And I would disagree with the notion "Seasons 1 and 5 suck."  They are less successful than seasons 2 - 4, but there are fantastic episodes in those seasons and they shouldn't just be written off.  Even the so-called garbage episodes have redeeming elements.  TKO, considered one of the worst episodes in the series, has a beautiful B story about Ivanova sitting shiva for her father.


The best part, imo, about that plot was when the Rabbi was leaving and she remembered her last conversation with her dad, then she shouts out "Uncle Yashi or something like that" and that made me realize that I really needed to dust my house.
 
2013-02-22 12:46:54 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,


Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.
 
2013-02-22 12:52:22 PM  

CarnySaur: Still wondering if they ever got home.
[www.mediacollectibles.com image 600x600]


Holy crap...wasn't that the show with an episode where they ended up in a female dominated world and the only job the dad could get was waxing the fruit at the grocery store?
 
2013-02-22 12:56:48 PM  

jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.


What do you want?
 
2013-02-22 12:59:24 PM  
Awesome Troll Headline +10
 
2013-02-22 12:59:29 PM  

Saiga410: For me B5 will always be the king of SciFi TV.  There are other greats but B5 hands down.

I wish Netflix would pick Farscape back up.  I never did watch its original airing regularly but enjoyed it.  Found it a few months back and they pull it after I get to 1:3.... Bah.


Biggest complaint I had with Netflix was they had the whole series, EXCEPT the 2 hour finale.
 
2013-02-22 12:59:39 PM  

CarnySaur: Still wondering if they ever got home.
[www.mediacollectibles.com image 600x600]


Is that Greg Brady and the kid that sees dead people?
 
2013-02-22 01:02:55 PM  

KingKauff: jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.

What do you want?


I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this.  Can you and your associates arrange this for me, Mr. Morden?
 
2013-02-22 01:04:57 PM  

StrikitRich: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x278][u1.ipernity.com image 352x240][www.tcon.ca image 420x250]

Then again, how could you leave out the Amish is Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace?


Came for this. Thank you. Too bad they got off track from the original Ellison work it was based on.

WorkingInParadise: 20 years? You kids get off my lawn! The greatest sci-fi program ever was...

[thewickedwriters.files.wordpress.com image 435x580]

Salvage 1, featuring Matlock... I mean, Andy Griffith!


NO. Even as a 10 year old the premise of this show was too much to swallow. Plus it's not really science fiction. They just flew their space ship, made out of a salvaged tanker truck and cement mixer (no, I'm not making that up), and recovered space junk occasionally.
 
2013-02-22 01:07:48 PM  

tricycleracer: vudukungfu: Firefly isn't that old

 
2013-02-22 01:08:23 PM  

Awesome to see "The Starlost" referenced here.  Created by none other than Cordwainer Bird!  Only the early 70's tech, writer's strike, terribly reused set pieces and horrific acting ruined it.  But to this day, I still say "Can I help you? May I be of some assistance?"


B5 stunk but I couldn't make it past season 1.

Just started watching Farscape, finding it much better.

 
2013-02-22 01:10:43 PM  
when i got home from school in the mid 70's i loved ultraman...channel 20 washington DC with 'Captain 20'.
 
2013-02-22 01:17:15 PM  

jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.


You've got to throw in Soul Hunter, Parliament of Dreams, Mind War, By Any Means Necessary, Babylon Squared, and The Quality of Mercy.  There are probably 5 or 6 others, but these are the cream of the crop.
 
2013-02-22 01:17:16 PM  
I didn't realize that The Great Space Coaster anniversary was today!
 
2013-02-22 01:18:43 PM  
25.media.tumblr.comI
t's been 20 years, eh?
 
2013-02-22 01:23:37 PM  

yves0010: Click Click D'oh: clkeagle:B5 is what brought the simple concepts of story arcs and character development to genre television.

1982 would like a word with you:

[galacticwatercooler.com image 450x369]

Good old Robotech.. I mean Macross.


Shhhhhh!
 
2013-02-22 01:25:12 PM  
What? No Space Above and Beyond?
 
2013-02-22 01:26:32 PM  

Stile4aly: B5 has a higher hit to miss ratio than most other Science Fiction, especially when taken in the context of its time.  And I would disagree with the notion "Seasons 1 and 5 suck."  They are less successful than seasons 2 - 4, but there are fantastic episodes in those seasons and they shouldn't just be written off.  Even the so-called garbage episodes have redeeming elements.  TKO, considered one of the worst episodes in the series, has a beautiful B story about Ivanova sitting shiva for her father.


Season one gets a bad rap because it spends so much time introducing the galaxy as it is, developing a rather large cast, and setting up most of the events that happen in the following seasons. An episode like Infection or Mind War introduces ideas that aren't dealt with for the rest of the season, but then it becomes important later in the series. Other stand-alones, like Believers, are often overlooked.

Season five was post-arc due to the compression JMS had in rushing to an end for season 4, but was granted the fifth season anyway. The telepath arc in S5 was a little rough at times, but good. Two stand-alones - Day of the Dead and View from the Gallery were really good. And it kind of sucked to lose Ivanova.

But seriously, no show has done physics and science as well as B5. From red/blue shifts when jumping, use of beam/projectile weapons in combat, and using real physics in flight and on the station. Even little things like the in-station fighting in Severed Dreams. Garibaldi in security wants to use a choke point to contain a boarding enemy, but the Narn's choose to take more severe losses to break the invader's position and stop them immediately. DS9 handled a similar situation by having Federation troops fighting Klingons with Batliths - which was plain old stupid. B5 just felt like something that could happen while ST remains space fantasy.

Oh, and never forget that B5 never glossed over the human losses in war.
 
2013-02-22 01:27:53 PM  

Stile4aly: You've got to throw in Soul Hunter, Parliament of Dreams, Mind War, By Any Means Necessary, Babylon Squared, and The Quality of Mercy.  There are probably 5 or 6 others, but these are the cream of the crop.


Love B^2, and the fact that it's followed up so well (albeit somewhat confusingly) in season 3 with the two parter is the clincher for me.

Not a huge fan of "By Any Means...", Parliament of Dreams is a kick - especially Londo passing out drunk in his ceremony.

"Everybody's cute! But in purple, I am stunning!" <thud>
 
2013-02-22 01:28:00 PM  
True story time,

I'm working in our comic shop (about 4 months before Tron 2 comes out) and this guy comes over and says, "You don't have much in the way of babylon 5 stuff I see."
I knew before I even looked up that it was Bruce Boxleitner . He just has that great voice.
His wife was doing a play in town and he stopped by to look around. We talked for a good 15 minutes about the show and everything. Really nice guy.

Babylon 5 was the reason I didn't watch DS9. I couldn't get into a "jr. edition" of something. I knew no matter what happened, Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.
Also, the end, the last episode, with Claudia Christians voice over, showing Garibaldi as a family man....that left me in tears.
 
2013-02-22 01:29:21 PM  

KingKauff: jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.

What do you want?


Who are you?
 
2013-02-22 01:32:17 PM  
Yes, but what would Romeo and Juliet be like in the smartphone age?
 
2013-02-22 01:33:14 PM  

Zombie DJ: Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.


DS9 actually killed off a few characters by the end of the run.  In many ways DS9 was a pretty huge departure from "standard" Star Trek shows.
 
2013-02-22 01:33:28 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: when i got home from school in the mid 70's i loved ultraman...channel 20 washington DC with 'Captain 20'.


I've got the entire original series on DVD.  I was hesitant to watch it, to be honest, because I thought it would be stupid.  But if you watch it in Japanese with the subtitles, it holds up very, very well (special effects notwithstanding).
 
2013-02-22 01:33:30 PM  

jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.


"And the Sky Full of Stars" is my favorite from season 1

THEN WHY DID THEY SURRENDER!?!
 
2013-02-22 01:34:14 PM  

madgonad: Stile4aly: B5 has a higher hit to miss ratio than most other Science Fiction, especially when taken in the context of its time.  And I would disagree with the notion "Seasons 1 and 5 suck."  They are less successful than seasons 2 - 4, but there are fantastic episodes in those seasons and they shouldn't just be written off.  Even the so-called garbage episodes have redeeming elements.  TKO, considered one of the worst episodes in the series, has a beautiful B story about Ivanova sitting shiva for her father.

Season one gets a bad rap because it spends so much time introducing the galaxy as it is, developing a rather large cast, and setting up most of the events that happen in the following seasons. An episode like Infection or Mind War introduces ideas that aren't dealt with for the rest of the season, but then it becomes important later in the series. Other stand-alones, like Believers, are often overlooked.

Season five was post-arc due to the compression JMS had in rushing to an end for season 4, but was granted the fifth season anyway. The telepath arc in S5 was a little rough at times, but good. Two stand-alones - Day of the Dead and View from the Gallery were really good. And it kind of sucked to lose Ivanova.

But seriously, no show has done physics and science as well as B5. From red/blue shifts when jumping, use of beam/projectile weapons in combat, and using real physics in flight and on the station. Even little things like the in-station fighting in Severed Dreams. Garibaldi in security wants to use a choke point to contain a boarding enemy, but the Narn's choose to take more severe losses to break the invader's position and stop them immediately. DS9 handled a similar situation by having Federation troops fighting Klingons with Batliths - which was plain old stupid. B5 just felt like something that could happen while ST remains space fantasy.

Oh, and never forget that B5 never glossed over the human losses in war.


"Gropos" was a damned fine episode for precisely that reason, like many of the series best (like say "Intersections in Real Time"  it could almost have worked as a stand-alone play
 
2013-02-22 01:39:08 PM  

Magorn: Norfolking Chance: As i said on the DS9 thread at its best B5 is better than DS9 and at its worst B5 is worse than DS9.

Passing through gethsemane just pips far beyond the stars and and the rock cried out is just a bit better than in the pale moonlight.

Either way Mollari, Dukat, G'Kar and Garrick will live on much longer than Sheridan, Sisko, Kira and Ivanova.

DS9 fails in my mind because I couldn't stop laughing out loud during the Big Dramatic war scenes when spectacularly inept dialogue came from the mouths of the main characters because of writers who didn't give a second's thought to what actual space warfare might be like, or hell, even had a decent grasp of naval warfare.

Everytime I happen to see the episode with the big fleet battle where  Sisco goes on about breaking the enemy's LINES I die a little inside that sucha  great actor is being used so poorly.

JMS was MUCH better at that stuff, and "Severed Dreams" was an utterly amazing example of what the "war " season of DS9 SHOULD have been like with competent writers

and I will fight anyone who thinks that "confessions and lamentations" isn't some of the best farking writing in TV SF since Harlan Ellison's "City on the edge of Forever"


You win the thread.
 
2013-02-22 01:39:34 PM  
We all know this was the best Sci Fi show of all time.

portal.mytischi.net

/obscure?
 
2013-02-22 01:42:27 PM  

Hyatus: [25.media.tumblr.com image 500x342]I
t's been 20 years, eh?


blog.zap2it.com
Everyone knows a beaver's favorite food is wood. I just hope we brought along enough of it for our three day galactic space journey... So let's do the math! If Robin's beaver devours six inches of wood every half hour and Jessica's beaver devours eight inches of wood every 45 minutes, how much wood will I need to keep both of these beavers well fed all weekend long?
 
2013-02-22 01:42:29 PM  
Eh, B5 was ok, but maybe it's because I didn't watch it when it originally aired, but the effects were freaking horrid, bad enough to end up taking me out of the story.

My favorite has always been SG-1. It was a balanced show, it had it's dramatic moments and it's comedic moments, something most modern sci-fi shows are lacking. (Yes I know Lexx had both, but that shiat was so ridiculous it wasn't even funny)

Farscape follows right behind that, for much the same reasons. Good mix of serious and funny, and the characters had great chemistry. I wasn't a fan of some of the characters (I'm looking at you Sikozu, Chianna, and Stark) but they made it work. Sad that some of the characters were acted so poorly (Crais, numerous aliens) or written poorly (Zhan after she lost her faith).

Trek, all it's variations have their moments. Suffice it to say they remain one of the greats.

Firefly had it's potential, but it's gone now. Good stuff while it lasted.

BSG was great, but God as an active character never sat well with me.
 
2013-02-22 01:43:37 PM  
That one lady's weird skin-crown thingy always bugged me. Did it grow up over her hair (like just resting on her hair , but attached at the temples), or just pop straight up out of her head? If straight up out of her noggin'... her hair wouldn't lay/grow like that.

It's just stupid the other way.

DS9 was way better anyways
 
2013-02-22 01:43:56 PM  
This only lasted like 5 minutes, but I kind of always wanted to see where it was going to go.

www.episodeguide.ussciwiki.scifiontv.com
 
2013-02-22 01:43:58 PM  

Stile4aly: jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.

You've got to throw in Soul Hunter, Parliament of Dreams, Mind War, By Any Means Necessary, Babylon Squared, and The Quality of Mercy.  There are probably 5 or 6 others, but these are the cream of the crop.


Bears repeating.  The B plot kind of sucked, but the main storyline worked really well, especially in the overall scheme of how things were going on Earth.  While not all that great, I thought Survivors was interesting in hindsight.  When the coup took place, I wonder what happened to what's-her-name, the president's security chief.  I doubt she survived, but Garibaldi never mentioned it either way.  Missed opportunity.
 
2013-02-22 01:44:01 PM  

Zombie DJ: True story time,

I'm working in our comic shop (about 4 months before Tron 2 comes out) and this guy comes over and says, "You don't have much in the way of babylon 5 stuff I see."
I knew before I even looked up that it was Bruce Boxleitner . He just has that great voice.
His wife was doing a play in town and he stopped by to look around. We talked for a good 15 minutes about the show and everything. Really nice guy.

Babylon 5 was the reason I didn't watch DS9. I couldn't get into a "jr. edition" of something. I knew no matter what happened, Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.
Also, the end, the last episode, with Claudia Christians voice over, showing Garibaldi as a family man....that left me in tears.


What an overweight comic book retailer and Bruce Boxleitner might look like.
i81.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 01:44:19 PM  
Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

raptorsclaw.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-22 01:44:48 PM  

CarnySaur: Still wondering if they ever got home.
[www.mediacollectibles.com image 600x600]


I was in love with the teenage daughter with the huge, er, tracks of land.
 
2013-02-22 01:47:22 PM  

flaminio: Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

[raptorsclaw.files.wordpress.com image 500x585]


You know, I always wanted to watch that one but never got the chance. It was apparently on when I was stationed overseas, and netflix doesn't seem to have it last I checked. Hoping that when I do get the chance to watch it I won't blow it off as "Hercules in space"
 
2013-02-22 01:49:05 PM  
You know as good as  BSG was for the most part, why can't they reboot Star Blazers?  That'd be a fun series.
 
2013-02-22 01:49:47 PM  
Season 5 did have one thing going for it. The best title sequence on a TV show.
 
2013-02-22 01:50:19 PM  

Teufelaffe: Zombie DJ: Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.

DS9 actually killed off a few characters by the end of the run.  In many ways DS9 was a pretty huge departure from "standard" Star Trek shows.


Who did DS9 kill off? Jadzia was just replaced by Ezri.

B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,
 
2013-02-22 01:54:03 PM  

madgonad: Teufelaffe: Zombie DJ: Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.

DS9 actually killed off a few characters by the end of the run.  In many ways DS9 was a pretty huge departure from "standard" Star Trek shows.

Who did DS9 kill off? Jadzia was just replaced by Ezri.

B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,


Entire races were wiped out on B5.
 
2013-02-22 01:54:17 PM  

flaminio: Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

[raptorsclaw.files.wordpress.com image 500x585]


img685.imageshack.us

i.imgur.com

Just hangin' out
 
2013-02-22 01:56:07 PM  

cman: Oh HELL no

DS9 was greater than all other Treks plus Babylon 5 combined.


No it wasn't
 
2013-02-22 01:56:55 PM  
SWEET  one of those threads were we post obscure shiatty shows and claim they were the best!
 
2013-02-22 01:59:04 PM  

Der Poopflinger: SWEET  one of those threads were we post obscure shiatty shows and claim they were the best!


m.cdn.blog.hu
 
2013-02-22 01:59:51 PM  

Evil Mackerel: madgonad: Teufelaffe: Zombie DJ: Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.

DS9 actually killed off a few characters by the end of the run.  In many ways DS9 was a pretty huge departure from "standard" Star Trek shows.

Who did DS9 kill off? Jadzia was just replaced by Ezri.

B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,

Entire races were wiped out on B5.


i.eprci.net
DS9 Killed him
 
2013-02-22 02:00:04 PM  
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-22 02:01:45 PM  
i17.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 02:01:50 PM  

Evil Mackerel: Entire races were wiped out on B5.


That was an awesome episode. The show really made the viewer feel the horror of watching helplessly as everyone around you died. Blotting out the entire race just reinforced what kind of galaxy we were in. And of course since the story is well woven together, access to the Markab homeworld was later destroyed in a military engagement (the bone-head maneuver I believe it was called).
 
2013-02-22 02:02:23 PM  

You Are All Sheep: You know as good as  BSG was for the most part, why can't they reboot Star Blazers?  That'd be a fun series.


I know they did a live-action movie, but if they did a non-Flanderized version for the reboot....
 
2013-02-22 02:03:13 PM  
An itching nose must be scratched.
 
2013-02-22 02:04:42 PM  
One of my favorite lines, from one of my favorite episodes:

"And he made a very satisfying thump when he hit the floor."
 
2013-02-22 02:05:53 PM  
One of the lesser know episodes
i17.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 02:07:19 PM  

madgonad: Teufelaffe: Zombie DJ: Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.

DS9 actually killed off a few characters by the end of the run.  In many ways DS9 was a pretty huge departure from "standard" Star Trek shows.

Who did DS9 kill off? Jadzia was just replaced by Ezri.

B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,


I'm not trying to say they were equal, but more named characters died in DS9 than in the rest of the Star Trek series' combined.

**SPOILER below**
Hell, it's the only Star Trek TV series that ends with the captain dead.
 
2013-02-22 02:07:29 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-22 02:08:19 PM  

Wellon Dowd: Quark debuted over 35 years ago.

[i.imgur.com image 720x544]


And today:

insiderlouisville.com
 
2013-02-22 02:09:00 PM  

Teufelaffe: **SPOILER below**


Same as Babylon 5.
 
2013-02-22 02:11:45 PM  
Two more reasons why B5 > DS9: click - click

/Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax any day
// Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God
 
2013-02-22 02:13:20 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-22 02:15:06 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: - Rewatch Season 1 to pick out the foreshadowing.


The very first pilot movie had awesome foreshadowing you'd only notice if you remembered a barely audible line.

When the assassin dressed as Sinclair in the chameleon mesh approaches Kossh, Kossh greets him by saying Entil'zha, or "One who creates the future." It was used to refer to the leaders of the Rangers during the Shadow War, but it really referred to Valen's title as the One. The name was thrown around when the Rangers were revealed, but unless you noticed Kossh saying it before he was shot in the pilot movie, you would have written it off as cryptic alien greeting.
 
2013-02-22 02:16:00 PM  
 
2013-02-22 02:16:11 PM  

Zombie DJ: Teufelaffe: **SPOILER below**

Same as Babylon 5.


Yep.
TOS killed Kirk and Spock 1.0
TNG has only killed Tasha and Data
DS9 killed Jadzia (kinda) and Sisko (kinda)
Voyager killed Janeway 2.0
 
2013-02-22 02:19:34 PM  

Snapper Carr: Two more reasons why B5 > DS9: click - click

/Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax any day
// Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God


Side note - I would pay to see Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax. Or vica versa, I'm not picky Throw Ezri in too...
 
2013-02-22 02:21:56 PM  

madgonad: Stile4aly: B5 has a higher hit to miss ratio than most other Science Fiction, especially when taken in the context of its time.  And I would disagree with the notion "Seasons 1 and 5 suck."  They are less successful than seasons 2 - 4, but there are fantastic episodes in those seasons and they shouldn't just be written off.  Even the so-called garbage episodes have redeeming elements.  TKO, considered one of the worst episodes in the series, has a beautiful B story about Ivanova sitting shiva for her father.

Season one gets a bad rap because it spends so much time introducing the galaxy as it is, developing a rather large cast, and setting up most of the events that happen in the following seasons. An episode like Infection or Mind War introduces ideas that aren't dealt with for the rest of the season, but then it becomes important later in the series. Other stand-alones, like Believers, are often overlooked.

Season five was post-arc due to the compression JMS had in rushing to an end for season 4, but was granted the fifth season anyway. The telepath arc in S5 was a little rough at times, but good. Two stand-alones - Day of the Dead and View from the Gallery were really good. And it kind of sucked to lose Ivanova.

But seriously, no show has done physics and science as well as B5. From red/blue shifts when jumping, use of beam/projectile weapons in combat, and using real physics in flight and on the station. Even little things like the in-station fighting in Severed Dreams. Garibaldi in security wants to use a choke point to contain a boarding enemy, but the Narn's choose to take more severe losses to break the invader's position and stop them immediately. DS9 handled a similar situation by having Federation troops fighting Klingons with Batliths - which was plain old stupid. B5 just felt like something that could happen while ST remains space fantasy.

Oh, and never forget that B5 never glossed over the human losses in war.


Babylon 5 was great (well, one of the reasons) for the same reason DS9 became great: it ignored the shackles of futuristic perfection that Roddenberry bogged down all of Star Trek with. JMS was downright subversive with how muich he went against Roddenberry's ideal vision of the future which is one of the reasons the first two seasons of TNG sucked so hard.

Kids on starships and space stations? Kid's gonna die. Humanity's perfect? Humanity's corrupt as shiat. No religion? Lots of religions, including new ones made up because we came to space. Harlan Ellison's bitterness shown through and made everything interesting instead of the usual anomaly-of-the-week check-out-how-awesome-humans-are bullshiat.

It's the same reason "In the Pale Moonlight" is one of the five greatest episodes in all of Star Trek,

JMS and Harlan Ellison get a lifetime bullshiat pass from me because of Babylon 5, though JMS really, really shouldn't be allowed near comic books.
 
2013-02-22 02:22:09 PM  

madgonad: Evil Mackerel: Entire races were wiped out on B5.

That was an awesome episode. The show really made the viewer feel the horror of watching helplessly as everyone around you died. Blotting out the entire race just reinforced what kind of galaxy we were in. And of course since the story is well woven together, access to the Markab homeworld was later destroyed in a military engagement (the bone-head maneuver I believe it was called).


I know BSG did a really good job of that several times, including in the bombing of Caprica, the takeover of New Caprica, and Zarek's execution of the Quorum.  At each of those points, I was definitely caught up in the moment.

\that level of emotion happened only in one other show, Breaking Bad
 
2013-02-22 02:23:47 PM  
Barely off-topic, but can we agree that a sci-fi buddy cop show starring Keith David and Avery Brooks as themselves would be the greatest program ever made?

/I really want to know where Brooks buys his pot. If you've seen him talk, you know he has the farking HOOKUP.
 
2013-02-22 02:24:01 PM  

idsfa: "God sent me"


i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-22 02:24:57 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I know BSG did a really good job of that several times, including in the bombing of Caprica, the takeover of New Caprica, and Zarek's execution of the Quorum.  At each of those points, I was definitely caught up in the moment.

\that level of emotion happened only in one other show, Breaking Bad


BSG had some truly amazing episodes, but halfway through the show it just seemed to utterly fizzle. They clearly had no idea where to take it and Sci-fi's insistence that the Cylons "had a plan" and the popularity of the show eventually made them go all-out Lost with it.
 
2013-02-22 02:26:07 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: madgonad: Evil Mackerel: Entire races were wiped out on B5.

That was an awesome episode. The show really made the viewer feel the horror of watching helplessly as everyone around you died. Blotting out the entire race just reinforced what kind of galaxy we were in. And of course since the story is well woven together, access to the Markab homeworld was later destroyed in a military engagement (the bone-head maneuver I believe it was called).

I know BSG did a really good job of that several times, including in the bombing of Caprica, the takeover of New Caprica, and Zarek's execution of the Quorum.  At each of those points, I was definitely caught up in the moment.

\that level of emotion happened only in one other show, Breaking Bad


I agree. A lot of great stuff happened in new BSG, but they wrote themselves into a corner (because they didn't have a plan) and created the worst deliberate series endings ever.
 
2013-02-22 02:26:08 PM  
Fun activity: take any quote from Babylon 5 that would sound badass and cut off the last sentence. That quote is now super-badass.

/Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.
 
2013-02-22 02:27:27 PM  

madgonad: I agree. A lot of great stuff happened in new BSG, but they wrote themselves into a corner (because they didn't have a plan) and created the worst deliberate series endings ever.


It won't happen (and Caprica utterly sucked balls in every way), but I'd love to see a Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood treatment of BSG. Take the great ideas from the first half of the show, run with them, then run in a different direction with a completely different climax and ending to make the entire thing more coherent.
 
2013-02-22 02:27:29 PM  

www.republibot.com

 
2013-02-22 02:27:48 PM  

KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.


Really, the first season sets up the characters and their back-stories, and established the way the universe was (assassination of the president and the like).  This is merely set-up for the main story.  Consider it the intro and opening chapters.  Season 2 is where it starts to get interesting, when things start to happen.
 
2013-02-22 02:29:07 PM  

Bloody William: Fun activity: take any quote from Babylon 5 that would sound badass and cut off the last sentence. That quote is now super-badass.

/Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.


Overall true, but I maintain the faint menace and teeth to "Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" really provides a capstone to the monologue.  It's badass anyway, but that last sentence really knocks it over the wall.
 
2013-02-22 02:30:50 PM  
blog.garethjmsaunders.co.uk

What no love for this?

/I know less than 20
//hot link
///somewhat obscure?
 
2013-02-22 02:33:15 PM  
"You are The One that was. You are The One that is. You are The One that will be"
 
2013-02-22 02:37:34 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: Since Quark has been mentioned... I present to you this...

[www.vampirerave.com image 308x400]


This looks familiar, but it's just outside of my recall range. All I remember is they hit the wrong button when they were hungry and ended up in space.
 
2013-02-22 02:37:50 PM  

radinator: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

Really, the first season sets up the characters and their back-stories, and established the way the universe was (assassination of the president and the like).  This is merely set-up for the main story.  Consider it the intro and opening chapters.  Season 2 is where it starts to get interesting, when things start to happen.


That is perhaps one of the worst defenses I've ever heard. I can nod along and agree with people saying that it got better in the second season but that is no excuse for just how boring, cliche and stupid the first season was. Basically the over arching role of a complete season is to compel me not only to tune in but to like the characters enough to tune in week after week. I didn't like anyone at all and the story was doing nothing to compel me to invest any more time.

I think I even pulled an ocular muscle rolling my eyes during one of the "message" episodes.
 
2013-02-22 02:39:31 PM  

Bloody William: whizbangthedirtfarmer: I know BSG did a really good job of that several times, including in the bombing of Caprica, the takeover of New Caprica, and Zarek's execution of the Quorum.  At each of those points, I was definitely caught up in the moment.

\that level of emotion happened only in one other show, Breaking Bad

BSG had some truly amazing episodes, but halfway through the show it just seemed to utterly fizzle. They clearly had no idea where to take it and Sci-fi's insistence that the Cylons "had a plan" and the popularity of the show eventually made them go all-out Lost with it.


I don't quite get the BSG hate.  I thought it was far, far stronger than the "best" sci-fi shows (where we acknowledge entire seasons suck or that they have only two or three good episodes each).  Yes, they lost control with the "final five" thing, but even so, BSG at its worst often outstripped pretty much any other show, especially SF, at its best.

Can only really think of one "boring" or "bad" episode of BSG: the one with Starbuck playing the piano.

\also don't understand the hatred of the ending ... it is as if they didn't watch the original series
 
2013-02-22 02:39:34 PM  

Last Man on Earth: Bloody William: Fun activity: take any quote from Babylon 5 that would sound badass and cut off the last sentence. That quote is now super-badass.

/Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.

Overall true, but I maintain the faint menace and teeth to "Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" really provides a capstone to the monologue.  It's badass anyway, but that last sentence really knocks it over the wall.


Badass? This is badass:
"Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me"
 
2013-02-22 02:40:05 PM  
Eureka isn't that old.
 
2013-02-22 02:40:46 PM  

give me doughnuts: Eureka isn't that old.


Neither is Star Trek Voyager
 
2013-02-22 02:43:32 PM  

KingKauff: Last Man on Earth: Bloody William: Fun activity: take any quote from Babylon 5 that would sound badass and cut off the last sentence. That quote is now super-badass.

/Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.

Overall true, but I maintain the faint menace and teeth to "Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" really provides a capstone to the monologue.  It's badass anyway, but that last sentence really knocks it over the wall.

Badass? This is badass:
"Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me"


Hell yeah, that's badass.  Quite possibly the biggest badass line in the entire series.  Doesn't make it the only badass line in the series, though.
 
2013-02-22 02:45:10 PM  

KingKauff: Last Man on Earth: Bloody William: Fun activity: take any quote from Babylon 5 that would sound badass and cut off the last sentence. That quote is now super-badass.

/Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.

Overall true, but I maintain the faint menace and teeth to "Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" really provides a capstone to the monologue.  It's badass anyway, but that last sentence really knocks it over the wall.

Badass? This is badass:
"Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me"



Additional badass:

"Upon arrival you will report for debriefing. And just one more thing, on your trip back I want you to take the time to learn the Babylon 5 mantra. Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!"
 
2013-02-22 02:48:53 PM  

Bloody William: Barely off-topic, but can we agree that a sci-fi buddy cop show starring Keith David and Avery Brooks as themselves would be the greatest program ever made?


This needs to happen. In fact, can we just put Keith David in everything? I'd watch that.
 
2013-02-22 02:48:55 PM  

KingKauff: "You are The One that was. You are The One that is. You are The One that will be"


Zathras was the only character that I dispised.  I dont know what it was about him.
 
2013-02-22 02:50:26 PM  

Evil Mackerel: madgonad: Teufelaffe: Zombie DJ: Star Trek would usually hit the reset button at the end of the show, while B5 wasn't afraid to kill characters off.

DS9 actually killed off a few characters by the end of the run.  In many ways DS9 was a pretty huge departure from "standard" Star Trek shows.

Who did DS9 kill off? Jadzia was just replaced by Ezri.

B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,

Entire races were wiped out on B5.


and I didn't get until later what genius that really was.  I'm not ashamed to say that when I first say the pilot I was completely turned off- I thought was a cheap ST knock-off with the Narns being the Klingons, the Centauri were obviously the comic-relief like the Ferengi, and the Mimbari were obviously vulcans.  As such I missed a lot of the shows until the episode "Believers"  which took a standard TVtrope of the good doctor ignroing the wishes of the Christian Scientist-like aliens to save their kid-and ditched the happy ending for something MUCH darker.  I came away from that episode thinking..."hmmm at sci-fi show with some balls...interesting".  But After "Confessions and Lamnetations" I was well and truly hooked.  That episode is so uncompromisingly brutal, not only is the race wiped out on the station but EVERYWHERE, and in the closing moments of the episode, the reaction of the bar patron's to this unimaginable horror (making "dead Mark'hab" jokes) is so  tough and true to life I was in awe.

What I didn;t realize until later is that episode gave JMS the credibility necessary to make seasons 3 &4 the masterpieces they were.  He'd established that he wasn't the slightest bit afraid of letting bad things happen to good people, or to let big-time characters die.  So when the cast and crew were in peril, you DIDN'T have that comfortable reassurance in the back of your mind that everyone not wearing a red shirt was going to be just fine and comeback for next week's episode.
 
2013-02-22 02:50:32 PM  
I still use "Not the one, not the one" around the house.
 
2013-02-22 02:50:48 PM  

UberDave: Mugato: Computer graphic FX courtesy of Commodore Vic 20.

They used Lightwave for everything.  I remember hearing that the render time for a single episode was something like a month which they reduced by using several DEC Alphas.

Incidentally, ST Voyager also used Lightwave (not exclusively) but by that time particle and lighting and shading effects has improved quite a bit.  Babylon 5 did quite a good job with what they had.


Wow, they didn't even have Maya? Kudos for them.
 
2013-02-22 02:51:10 PM  

Saiga410: KingKauff: "You are The One that was. You are The One that is. You are The One that will be"

Zathras was the only character that I dispised.  I dont know what it was about him.


Could it be because Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life. Probably have... very sad death. But... at least there is Symmetry.
 
2013-02-22 02:51:21 PM  

Snapper Carr: // Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God

"Trust Ivanova. Trust yourself. Anyone else? Shoot 'em."

Though G'Kar usually had the best lines. Apart from the "satisfying thump" one...
G'Kar: "I'll try and stop by for the closing ceremonies."
Lennier: "What matters is everything leading up to that point. Leaving behind the old, preparing to be reborn."
G'Kar: "I have already been born once, and quite sufficiently, I think."
 
2013-02-22 02:55:23 PM  

KatjaMouse: radinator: KatjaMouse: I honestly hated Babylon 5. I watched the entire first season last year and could not bring myself to watch the rest. I kept hoping "Maybe it'll get better with the next episode..." and it never did. So I didn't get the appeal for the show, unfortunately.

Really, the first season sets up the characters and their back-stories, and established the way the universe was (assassination of the president and the like).  This is merely set-up for the main story.  Consider it the intro and opening chapters.  Season 2 is where it starts to get interesting, when things start to happen.

That is perhaps one of the worst defenses I've ever heard. I can nod along and agree with people saying that it got better in the second season but that is no excuse for just how boring, cliche and stupid the first season was. Basically the over arching role of a complete season is to compel me not only to tune in but to like the characters enough to tune in week after week. I didn't like anyone at all and the story was doing nothing to compel me to invest any more time.

I think I even pulled an ocular muscle rolling my eyes during one of the "message" episodes.


Cynicism pervades our society now more then ever. Patience is a victim of this trend: This is why many people cannot sit through a symphony or opera anymore, read through a epic novel, or work on long term projects or goals that may or may not pay off in the end.

Not to say that you are any of this, but I would urge you to approach the show (and the first season) with more innocence and patience. Instead of rolling your eyes, take it as it is and see how these messages are learned or forgotten as the series goes forward. And for that matter, approach things with less cynicism, you might find you enjoy things more overall.
 
2013-02-22 02:55:31 PM  

Publikwerks: Snapper Carr: Two more reasons why B5 > DS9: click - click

/Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax any day
// Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God

Side note - I would pay to see Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax. Or vica versa, I'm not picky Throw Ezri in too...


ALL I am going to say on this subject, now or forever, is that once, around 2000, at a DragonCon, at one of the wilder late-night parties, I saw something involving one of the above-named actresses that comes very close to what you would have paid to see.
 
2013-02-22 02:57:37 PM  

Magorn: Publikwerks: Snapper Carr: Two more reasons why B5 > DS9: click - click

/Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax any day
// Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God

Side note - I would pay to see Delenn and Ivanova over Kira and Dax. Or vica versa, I'm not picky Throw Ezri in too...

ALL I am going to say on this subject, now or forever, is that once, around 2000, at a DragonCon, at one of the wilder late-night parties, I saw something involving one of the above-named actresses that comes very close to what you would have paid to see.


Okay, who was Claudia molesting this time?
 
2013-02-22 03:00:33 PM  

clkeagle: Snapper Carr: // Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God
"Trust Ivanova. Trust yourself. Anyone else? Shoot 'em."

Though G'Kar usually had the best lines. Apart from the "satisfying thump" one...
G'Kar: "I'll try and stop by for the closing ceremonies."
Lennier: "What matters is everything leading up to that point. Leaving behind the old, preparing to be reborn."
G'Kar: "I have already been born once, and quite sufficiently, I think."


The episode where G'Kar and Londo are trapped in the elevator was great. Especially, while laughing, G'Kar tells Londo that he is getting great joy watching him die (or something like that). I also liked how they always bickered like an old married couple
 
2013-02-22 03:01:55 PM  

madgonad: B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,


General Hague doesn't exactly count here.  JMS - in another of his vindictive tirades - got mad at Robert Foxworth for taking a guest role on DS9, and he "killed the character".  And if you check his IMDB credit, you'll see RF was averaging about 3 guest spots a year during that time....so it's fair to say he wasn't working on a mass quantity of shows.  Actors need to work.  It may have made a little more sense if RF was a regular on the series, but he was only in couple episodes.  But I loved Bruce McGill as his replacement.  D-Day *rules*....

I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

And now, I'm gonna troll...but I'm gonna be honest.

I do not care for Sleeping in Light at all, I thought it was overly melodramatic, over-hyped, and nothing epic really happened.  I was expecting Sheridan to morph into a Vorlon or something.  And my wife *hated* it.  She claimed "they're trying to make everyone cry".

I know a lotta people love it as the greatest thing since toilet paper.  I don't.  Sue me.
 
2013-02-22 03:04:09 PM  

KingKauff: clkeagle: Snapper Carr: // Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God
"Trust Ivanova. Trust yourself. Anyone else? Shoot 'em."

Though G'Kar usually had the best lines. Apart from the "satisfying thump" one...
G'Kar: "I'll try and stop by for the closing ceremonies."
Lennier: "What matters is everything leading up to that point. Leaving behind the old, preparing to be reborn."
G'Kar: "I have already been born once, and quite sufficiently, I think."

The episode where G'Kar and Londo are trapped in the elevator was great. Especially, while laughing, G'Kar tells Londo that he is getting great joy watching him die (or something like that). I also liked how they always bickered like an old married couple


I'd say that comparison about nails it, and gets increasingly fitting the further into the series they go.  By midway through season 4, they've fully gone from genuinely hating each other to being very much an old married couple.  Though the behavior itself doesn't change, the underlying feeling to it really does shift, a change that's apparent to the viewer.  Great character development.
 
2013-02-22 03:09:33 PM  

KatjaMouse: That is perhaps one of the worst defenses I've ever heard. I can nod along and agree with people saying that it got better in the second season but that is no excuse for just how boring, cliche and stupid the first season was. Basically the over arching role of a complete season is to compel me not only to tune in but to like the characters enough to tune in week after week. I didn't like anyone at all and the story was doing nothing to compel me to invest any more time.

I think I even pulled an ocular muscle rolling my eyes during one of the "message" episodes.


I remember JMS even stating on usenet sometime during season 3 he wasn't happy about the first season for the 5 minute ending treatment many of the scripts got.  He made some sort of comment about having to train his writers to stop it.
 
2013-02-22 03:11:31 PM  

ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.


Refresh my memory, please. What happened?
 
2013-02-22 03:13:20 PM  

Stile4aly: jonathan_L: OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,

Can't miss 'Signs and Portents', our first indication that some serious shiat is up.

You've got to throw in Soul Hunter, Parliament of Dreams, Mind War, By Any Means Necessary, Babylon Squared, and The Quality of Mercy.  There are probably 5 or 6 others, but these are the cream of the crop.


It's a given that it's an effort to get through the first season the first time, but half the episodes that season are considered "must watch TV". So maybe 1st season isn't THAT bad, or those are the ones to rewatch later?
 
2013-02-22 03:16:38 PM  

Magorn: Was hoping this would be B% when I saw the link, leaving satisfied, except tp amplify this line from TFA:
"and Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski also changed the rules for TV creators by actively engaging his fanbase online during the show's production. "

CSB:
I was On a FIDONET B-5 discussion forum (wasn't even linked to the USenet at the time IIRC) and bunch of us DC area fans decided to do an episode watching party at this one guy's houe who had a 100in projection screen and surround sound in his basement (remember the Dot-Com era was just dawning and geeks were suddenly finding themselves RICH)  al totalled there ware about 50 or so attendees.  Somehow JMS got wind of the gathering and offered to call us after the show to discuss it with us (IIRC it was the episode where the white star fought the shadow ship in earth's solar system).  I think we were all expecting a five min call where he said a few words and got back to his busy life.  what we got was more than an hour of in-depth Q&A where he engaged us in serious philosphical discussion about the nature of good and evil , told anecdotes about the day's filming (which had just wrapped) and funny stories about the cast.

As a geek I was blown away (it was just below the time I ended up chatting with Issac Asimov at a con for 20 minutes) and I think it was that direct fan engagement by JMS that helped make B5 some of the most fanatically loyal in all of SF-we really felt the show was an ongoing dialogue with us and for the first time it was a two-way conversation


Interesting.. I was on FidoNet back then as well.. some fun discussions.
 
2013-02-22 03:17:07 PM  

Bloody William: It won't happen (and Caprica utterly sucked balls in every way), but I'd love to see a Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood treatment of BSG. Take the great ideas from the first half of the show, run with them, then run in a different direction with a completely different climax and ending to make the entire thing more coherent.


It would not work because of why that happened with FMA. The point you are taling about is where they ran out of manga chapters when making the original series, and had to start making their own story line. Brotherhood simply had more manga chapters to work with an as such is allot closer to the origional story line.
 
2013-02-22 03:18:27 PM  

Last Man on Earth: KingKauff: Last Man on Earth: Bloody William: Fun activity: take any quote from Babylon 5 that would sound badass and cut off the last sentence. That quote is now super-badass.

/Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me.

Overall true, but I maintain the faint menace and teeth to "Can your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" really provides a capstone to the monologue.  It's badass anyway, but that last sentence really knocks it over the wall.

Badass? This is badass:
"Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me"

Hell yeah, that's badass.  Quite possibly the biggest badass line in the entire series.  Doesn't make it the only badass line in the series, though.


I'm Still fond of this one, though partly because of Andreas Kastulas' stellar delivery

"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.  The Centuari learned this lesson once, we will teach it to them again.  Though it take a thousand years, we  will be free."

and even that is a pale shadow compared to :
"There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain. "
 
2013-02-22 03:21:09 PM  

tillerman35: Giving Flounder a major role and the involvement of Bruce Boxleightner pretty much killed it for me.  Also the weird transylvanian accents that those space-vampire looking dudes had were pretty annoying.  Cool graphics for its time, though.

My vote goes to Space: 1999, with a nod to the Original Battlestar Gallactica (or more correctly stated, the ONLY Battlestar Gallactica).

/Off my lawn, you blasted kids!


Nice.  Concur.  Although Buck Rodgers in the 25th century was delightfully campy, and more importantly to 10 year old me, had Erin Gray's boobs.
 
2013-02-22 03:21:49 PM  

GungFu: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 704x576]

Beedeebeedee!


Yup, there they are.
 
2013-02-22 03:24:39 PM  
www.big13.net
 
2013-02-22 03:25:40 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Bloody William: whizbangthedirtfarmer: I know BSG did a really good job of that several times, including in the bombing of Caprica, the takeover of New Caprica, and Zarek's execution of the Quorum.  At each of those points, I was definitely caught up in the moment.

\that level of emotion happened only in one other show, Breaking Bad

BSG had some truly amazing episodes, but halfway through the show it just seemed to utterly fizzle. They clearly had no idea where to take it and Sci-fi's insistence that the Cylons "had a plan" and the popularity of the show eventually made them go all-out Lost with it.

I don't quite get the BSG hate.  I thought it was far, far stronger than the "best" sci-fi shows (where we acknowledge entire seasons suck or that they have only two or three good episodes each).  Yes, they lost control with the "final five" thing, but even so, BSG at its worst often outstripped pretty much any other show, especially SF, at its best.

Can only really think of one "boring" or "bad" episode of BSG: the one with Starbuck playing the piano.

\also don't understand the hatred of the ending ... it is as if they didn't watch the original series


They weren't exactly following the series so there was no real reason to expect the same result. They were reforming the series and making it much better. The problem is they really didn't have any idea where they were going. The ending was all bland Deus ex machina stuff. From the very beginning they said "God has a plan to get man to earth." They repeated it so much and made it so important that I was expecting some kind of reveal. There wasn't one. They looked for earth and found it. And everything strange that happened along the way was hand waved away as angels did it.

I agree that a lot of the writing and acting is phenomenal. Leagues beyond B5 or DS9 or really any other sci fi show out there. The first half is definitely, to me, the best TV sci fi ever. But they really did fall apart at the end.
 
2013-02-22 03:26:23 PM  

Mugato: UberDave: Mugato: Computer graphic FX courtesy of Commodore Vic 20.

They used Lightwave for everything.  I remember hearing that the render time for a single episode was something like a month which they reduced by using several DEC Alphas.

Incidentally, ST Voyager also used Lightwave (not exclusively) but by that time particle and lighting and shading effects has improved quite a bit.  Babylon 5 did quite a good job with what they had.

Wow, they didn't even have Maya? Kudos for them.



Yeah, Maya came out right around the time the show ended.  I had a sub to 3D Design magazine that year and the issue that introduced Maya had a picture of clown's face on the cover rendered in Maya.  You could see the pores in the skin.  It was incredible at the time.

In any case, sometime during the series, someone got hold of the wireframes for the Star Furies and the Station and a few others and put them online.  I had them and they were pretty awesome.  But what always impressed me were how well they did their animation - the blur effects were awesome and the movements of spacecraft were almost always done very well...especially since they pretty much did the physics by hand.  There were only a couple of instances where you could see a spline (pathing...whatever) that a monkey could have done and even then it worked (the episode where they "skimmed" the larger spacecraft for instance).
 
2013-02-22 03:29:41 PM  

ristst: madgonad: B5 killed Keffer, Kosh, Talia, and Marcus. Plus Morden, Brother Edward, Emperor Cartagia, Sheridan's first wife, Byron, General Hague, Lord Refa, and others - and that is just counting characters that appeared in multiple episodes. They killed tons of single episode characters.,

General Hague doesn't exactly count here.  JMS - in another of his vindictive tirades - got mad at Robert Foxworth for taking a guest role on DS9, and he "killed the character".  And if you check his IMDB credit, you'll see RF was averaging about 3 guest spots a year during that time....so it's fair to say he wasn't working on a mass quantity of shows.  Actors need to work.  It may have made a little more sense if RF was a regular on the series, but he was only in couple episodes.  But I loved Bruce McGill as his replacement.  D-Day *rules*....

I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

And now, I'm gonna troll...but I'm gonna be honest.

I do not care for Sleeping in Light at all, I thought it was overly melodramatic, over-hyped, and nothing epic really happened.  I was expecting Sheridan to morph into a Vorlon or something.  And my wife *hated* it.  She claimed "they're trying to make everyone cry".

I know a lotta people love it as the greatest thing since toilet paper.  I don't.  Sue me.


Hague was killed because he had a conflict with DS9 and JMS wouldn't rearrange the scheduling to fit him in, so off with his head.

I was annoyed about Claudia too. She had the long term contract from the very beginning, so she was way underpaid for seasons 3&4 when the other actors got paid pretty well. She thought that she needed a big bump for the last season and JMS called her on it. I like what Joe does, but he is still part of Hollywood and wants to get paid. I believe he is only writing now, and taping Pat Tallman too, so I think he turned out okay. He did kind of screw with Claudia's career though.

Sleeping in Light did exactly what it needed to do. King Arthur was sailed back to Avalon. Scuttling the station was stupid. Hazard to navigation my ass. A field of debris is a hell of a lot more of a nuisance than a derelict space station. Besides - anything that big should be able to find a use. Just because it wasn't the seat of interstellar government anymore doesn't mean it can't serve a purpose. Someone just wanted to show the animation again.
 
2013-02-22 03:34:07 PM  

Alphax: Interesting.. I was on FidoNet back then as well.. some fun discussions.


I still have mental scars from Fight-o-Net.
 
2013-02-22 03:34:16 PM  

Bloody William: though JMS really, really shouldn't be allowed near comic books.


I thought Superman Earth One was pretty good.
 
2013-02-22 03:35:58 PM  

odinsposse: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Bloody William: whizbangthedirtfarmer: I know BSG did a really good job of that several times, including in the bombing of Caprica, the takeover of New Caprica, and Zarek's execution of the Quorum.  At each of those points, I was definitely caught up in the moment.

\that level of emotion happened only in one other show, Breaking Bad

BSG had some truly amazing episodes, but halfway through the show it just seemed to utterly fizzle. They clearly had no idea where to take it and Sci-fi's insistence that the Cylons "had a plan" and the popularity of the show eventually made them go all-out Lost with it.

I don't quite get the BSG hate.  I thought it was far, far stronger than the "best" sci-fi shows (where we acknowledge entire seasons suck or that they have only two or three good episodes each).  Yes, they lost control with the "final five" thing, but even so, BSG at its worst often outstripped pretty much any other show, especially SF, at its best.

Can only really think of one "boring" or "bad" episode of BSG: the one with Starbuck playing the piano.

\also don't understand the hatred of the ending ... it is as if they didn't watch the original series

They weren't exactly following the series so there was no real reason to expect the same result. They were reforming the series and making it much better. The problem is they really didn't have any idea where they were going. The ending was all bland Deus ex machina stuff. From the very beginning they said "God has a plan to get man to earth." They repeated it so much and made it so important that I was expecting some kind of reveal. There wasn't one. They looked for earth and found it. And everything strange that happened along the way was hand waved away as angels did it.

I agree that a lot of the writing and acting is phenomenal. Leagues beyond B5 or DS9 or really any other sci fi show out there. The first half is definitely, to me, the best TV sci fi ever. But they really did fall apart at ...


I had this discussion with friends when it was on. For me, I can tell the episode where the quality dropped: the episode after Starbuck shoots Lee. Lee wakes up in Dee's quarters and 4-6 months have passed since the previous ep. Before that, it seemed like the show was almost in real-time with the amount of shiat they had to put up with. Heck, the first episode took place a few hours after the pilot and the amount of tension building from that point on was amazing.
Then Lee is shot and 6 months pass without anything of note happening. It was all down-hill from there.

I own the DVDs and have re-watched it a couple times. I shut it off after the last jump in the last episode.

/the Adama maneuver on New Caprica had me literally yelling "Oh shiat" at the TV
//B5>DS9, but not by much.
 
2013-02-22 03:40:36 PM  

Witty_Retort: I had this discussion with friends when it was on. For me, I can tell the episode where the quality dropped: the episode after Starbuck shoots Lee. Lee wakes up in Dee's quarters and 4-6 months have passed since the previous ep. Before that, it seemed like the show was almost in real-time with the amount of shiat they had to put up with. Heck, the first episode took place a few hours after the pilot and the amount of tension building from that point on was amazing.
Then Lee is shot and 6 months pass without anything of note happening. It was all down-hill from there.


The jarring timeskip threw me off as well. It completely shook up the show's rhythm and destroyed any sense of tension for the pacing, which is what made the early seasons great and made "33" utterly brilliant.
 
2013-02-22 03:44:46 PM  

madgonad: Scuttling the station was stupid. Hazard to navigation my ass. A field of debris is a hell of a lot more of a nuisance than a derelict space station. Besides - anything that big should be able to find a use. Just because it wasn't the seat of interstellar government anymore doesn't mean it can't serve a purpose. Someone just wanted to show the animation again.


I thought the whole reason they built the station out there was that it was far away from any regular trade-lines. For some reason, I have that stuck in my head.

Well, I will just have to research it this weekend.
 
2013-02-22 03:45:24 PM  
at the age of 12, I was admonished for heckling the Babylon 5 auctioneer at a Star Trek convention I attended. I still stand by my actions.
 
2013-02-22 03:52:47 PM  

Witty_Retort: madgonad: Scuttling the station was stupid. Hazard to navigation my ass. A field of debris is a hell of a lot more of a nuisance than a derelict space station. Besides - anything that big should be able to find a use. Just because it wasn't the seat of interstellar government anymore doesn't mean it can't serve a purpose. Someone just wanted to show the animation again.

I thought the whole reason they built the station out there was that it was far away from any regular trade-lines. For some reason, I have that stuck in my head.

Well, I will just have to research it this weekend.


It was there because it was centrally located. That wouldn't change for trade. It just wouldn't be the 'UN Building' anymore once the seat of government moves to Minbar. Also, it is located above The Great Machine. Maybe turn it into a research institution or a military command post? Hell, sell it as a colony. Let the telepaths have it. It already has a jumpgate. Heck, it had a service life of 25 years - about the same as the ISS.
 
2013-02-22 04:04:35 PM  

KingKauff: ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

Refresh my memory, please. What happened?



It was during the time when the series was not guaranteed to return for the 5th season.  Contracts were late, and she lined up other gigs (as actors are wont to do).  I'm sure both sides were involved, but if you look at how many episodes Tracey Scoggins was in it sure seems like more of JMS' "my way or the highway" attitude.  And if you read CC's account of JMS trying to put the moves on her, well that sure could've had something to do with the situation.

From an interview with CC, http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art28651.asp

Christian left her regular role on "B5" just before the fifth and final season, after a contract dispute with the show's creator, J. Michael Stracynski. The actress says she wanted less of a presence in the final season so she could work on other projects, but Stracynski insisted she appear in all 22 episodes. At the time, she didn't have a contract and was let go. However, since the series finale was filmed at the end of the fourth season (producers thought the show would be canceled), Christian's character does make a return at the end. Ironically, Christian noted, her replacement (actress Tracy Scoggins) appeared on only eight episodes that season.
 
2013-02-22 04:05:10 PM  

KingKauff: ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

Refresh my memory, please. What happened?


At the end of season 4 it looked like the show was over but just in case they got everyone to sign extensions to their contracts so that they could be retained if the show got picked up for a fifth season.  This took some hounding but ultimately they got everyone to sign, or so they thought.  Lo and behold, a miracle occurred and TNT picked up B5 for the fifth season.  When the production team went to call in all the contracts, they discovered that Claudia had not signed on despite being one of the principal voices for getting others to sign on.  At a convention just before the deadline for Season 5 to begin JMS tried to convince her to join on.  He claims that she wanted a per episode bump (technically, her S4 salary but fewer episodes) which he couldn't accomodate because it would have resulted in corresponding bumps for the entire cast (favored nations) which would have scuttled the deal.  She claims that she was dissatisfied with the character in S4 where she was stuck with technobabble and reading stuff off a teleprompter.

Foxworthy had a scheduling conflict between DS9 and B5 and chose to film DS9 so JMS killed his character, though arguably this made for more interesting drama.
 
2013-02-22 04:09:02 PM  
Babylon 5 was good.

Farscape was better.
 
2013-02-22 04:10:11 PM  
Oh, and don't forget what happened with Crusade as well.  JMS took his ball and went home, and we never saw what would've most likely been an epic series.
 
2013-02-22 04:14:34 PM  

ristst: Oh, and don't forget what happened with Crusade as well.  JMS took his ball and went home, and we never saw what would've most likely been an epic series.


His explanation is that TNT screwed with him to no end because they realized that the B5 audience didn't stick around for TNTs other programming, and TNTs regular audience didn't watch B5.  The result would have been a product he couldn't stand behind.  He tried selling to Sci Fi afterwards, but they didn't have the mid season budget.  I too regret that Crusade never got its due.
 
2013-02-22 04:16:51 PM  

Wellon Dowd: Quark debuted over 35 years ago.

[i.imgur.com image 720x544]


I used to have such a case of the hots for Betty.  But not so much for Betty.
 
2013-02-22 04:23:52 PM  

ristst: KingKauff: ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

Refresh my memory, please. What happened?


It was during the time when the series was not guaranteed to return for the 5th season.  Contracts were late, and she lined up other gigs (as actors are wont to do).  I'm sure both sides were involved, but if you look at how many episodes Tracey Scoggins was in it sure seems like more of JMS' "my way or the highway" attitude.  And if you read CC's account of JMS trying to put the moves on her, well that sure could've had something to do with the situation.

From an interview with CC, http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art28651.asp

Christian left her regular role on "B5" just before the fifth and final season, after a contract dispute with the show's creator, J. Michael Stracynski. The actress says she wanted less of a presence in the final season so she could work on other projects, but Stracynski insisted she appear in all 22 episodes. At the time, she didn't have a contract and was let go. However, since the series finale was filmed at the end of the fourth season (producers thought the show would be canceled), Christian's character does make a return at the end. Ironically, Christian noted, her replacement (actress Tracy Scoggins) appeared on only eight episodes that season.


Had Ivanova stayed there would have been a LOT more plotline involving her, much of which had to be scrapped. Scorggins replaced her as station commander, but the rest of Ivanova's backstory was just too intrinsic to her character and ended up having to be thrown away, par for the course for the great mess that was Season 5 .  IIRC both JMS and Christian later made up somewhat, and blamed Christian's agent for making unreasonable demands on her behalf without her knowledge, knowing she was central to the remaining plot and figuring he had JMS over a barrell
 
2013-02-22 04:24:55 PM  

You Are All Sheep: You know as good as  BSG was for the most part, why can't they reboot Star Blazers?  That'd be a fun series.


They're actually remaking Space Battleship Yamato right now and English-subtitled Blu Rays are being released in Japan at a steady clip.  It's pretty good.
 
2013-02-22 04:25:48 PM  

ristst: KingKauff: ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

Refresh my memory, please. What happened?


It was during the time when the series was not guaranteed to return for the 5th season.  Contracts were late, and she lined up other gigs (as actors are wont to do).  I'm sure both sides were involved, but if you look at how many episodes Tracey Scoggins was in it sure seems like more of JMS' "my way or the highway" attitude.  And if you read CC's account of JMS trying to put the moves on her, well that sure could've had something to do with the situation.

From an interview with CC, http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art28651.asp

Christian left her regular role on "B5" just before the fifth and final season, after a contract dispute with the show's creator, J. Michael Stracynski. The actress says she wanted less of a presence in the final season so she could work on other projects, but Stracynski insisted she appear in all 22 episodes. At the time, she didn't have a contract and was let go. However, since the series finale was filmed at the end of the fourth season (producers thought the show would be canceled), Christian's character does make a return at the end. Ironically, Christian noted, her replacement (actress Tracy Scoggins) appeared on only eight episodes that season.


I wikied it right after I posted and saw that. I also saw this: She posed nude for Playboy magazine in October 1999. I just gave myself a homework assignment for the weekend.
 
2013-02-22 04:27:16 PM  

Stile4aly: KingKauff: ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

Refresh my memory, please. What happened?

At the end of season 4 it looked like the show was over but just in case they got everyone to sign extensions to their contracts so that they could be retained if the show got picked up for a fifth season.  This took some hounding but ultimately they got everyone to sign, or so they thought.  Lo and behold, a miracle occurred and TNT picked up B5 for the fifth season.  When the production team went to call in all the contracts, they discovered that Claudia had not signed on despite being one of the principal voices for getting others to sign on.  At a convention just before the deadline for Season 5 to begin JMS tried to convince her to join on.  He claims that she wanted a per episode bump (technically, her S4 salary but fewer episodes) which he couldn't accomodate because it would have resulted in corresponding bumps for the entire cast (favored nations) which would have scuttled the deal.  She claims that she was dissatisfied with the character in S4 where she was stuck with technobabble and reading stuff off a teleprompter.



It was just kinda weird....hell, even in the 60s Gene Roddenberry had to deal with Leonard Nimoy's demands after the first season of TOS.  At one point they had a list of potential actors to replace LM....and on that list were a couple of familiar names:  Lloyd Bochner and DAVID CARRADINE!  But they eventually came to an agreement.  A lot of fans (myself included) were perplexed as to the reasons more wasn't done to keep such a critical character on board.

Stile4aly: Foxworthy had a scheduling conflict between DS9 and B5 and chose to film DS9 so JMS killed his character, though arguably this made for more interesting drama.

Still kinda douche-baggy on this one.  Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.
 
2013-02-22 04:28:10 PM  

ristst: Oh, and don't forget what happened with Crusade as well.  JMS took his ball and went home, and we never saw what would've most likely been an epic series.


The only good thing about Crusade was the drinking game.

/Any time someone says "We live for the One, we die for the One", say "We drink for the One" and take a drink.
//Guaranteed to get wasted.
 
2013-02-22 04:34:00 PM  

Der Poopflinger: SWEET  one of those threads were we post obscure shiatty shows and claim they were the best!



Phoenix FTW!

1.bp.blogspot.com

/amidoinitright?
 
2013-02-22 04:34:18 PM  

ristst: Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.


Uh... DS9 was on the same "major network" as Babylon 5... meaning it was a syndicated show.

Hell, B5 was actually on a network when it went to TNT. DS9 was a syndicated show until the end.

/Voyager and Enterprise were the shows on UPN... but you can't really call that a major network.
 
2013-02-22 04:35:38 PM  

idsfa: ristst: Oh, and don't forget what happened with Crusade as well.  JMS took his ball and went home, and we never saw what would've most likely been an epic series.

The only good thing about Crusade was the drinking game.


Did you ever get the chance to read the next three scripts that were scheduled to shoot?  One of them kicked off the major arc for the series.  Supposedly the Drakh plague would've been cured (probably during the second season or so) and the series would've shifted focus from the plague to rogue Shadow tech.

Plus, we'd have gotten a lot more Galen.....which would've been truly epic.  One of the better characters to come out of the B5 universe.
 
2013-02-22 04:42:03 PM  

ristst: Plus, we'd have gotten a lot more Galen.....which would've been truly epic.  One of the better characters to come out of the B5 universe.


QFT, QFFarkingT
 
2013-02-22 04:42:30 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: ristst: Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.

Uh... DS9 was on the same "major network" as Babylon 5... meaning it was a syndicated show.

Hell, B5 was actually on a network when it went to TNT. DS9 was a syndicated show until the end.

/Voyager and Enterprise were the shows on UPN... but you can't really call that a major network.


I stand corrected.  But I'd still wager that DS9's production had somewhat deeper pockets that B5's, and most likely a broader fan base.  But a lot of that was due to B5's schedule bouncing around so much during the PTEN days.  Geez, at one point it aired at 1:00AM on Sunday nite!  Got good use of the ol' VCR back then....
 
2013-02-22 04:50:19 PM  

ristst: FirstNationalBastard: ristst: Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.

Uh... DS9 was on the same "major network" as Babylon 5... meaning it was a syndicated show.

Hell, B5 was actually on a network when it went to TNT. DS9 was a syndicated show until the end.

/Voyager and Enterprise were the shows on UPN... but you can't really call that a major network.

I stand corrected.  But I'd still wager that DS9's production had somewhat deeper pockets that B5's, and most likely a broader fan base.  But a lot of that was due to B5's schedule bouncing around so much during the PTEN days.  Geez, at one point it aired at 1:00AM on Sunday nite!  Got good use of the ol' VCR back then....


I'm not going to disagree with you on that one. DS9 was bankrolled by one of the big five studios, and part of a huge franchise.

B5 was funded by a couple of small outfits and only distributed by a major studio?
 
2013-02-22 04:52:59 PM  

ristst: FirstNationalBastard: ristst: Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.

Uh... DS9 was on the same "major network" as Babylon 5... meaning it was a syndicated show.

Hell, B5 was actually on a network when it went to TNT. DS9 was a syndicated show until the end.



I went to a ST convention in '86, and Majel Barret spoke in a small lecture hall in front of about 50 people.  She discussed TNG which had not yet begun production, had head shots of the actors chosen for the series (I only recognized Lavar Burton and Wil Wheaton), among other things.  She spoke a good deal on how Gene always wanted to do more ST, but he refused to work for a network after all the problems he had with them.  She said syndication was what got him back into the ST game.  He could make what he wanted, and if a network didn't want to buy it...well, so be it then.  Oh, and as we all know...they bought it allright.
 
2013-02-22 04:56:34 PM  

ristst: Stile4aly: KingKauff: ristst: I'm a big fan of B5...not so much in terms of JMS.  He's shown himself to be somewhat the douche on occasion...his handling of the Claudia Christian affair is another example besides the one mentioned above.

Refresh my memory, please. What happened?

At the end of season 4 it looked like the show was over but just in case they got everyone to sign extensions to their contracts so that they could be retained if the show got picked up for a fifth season.  This took some hounding but ultimately they got everyone to sign, or so they thought.  Lo and behold, a miracle occurred and TNT picked up B5 for the fifth season.  When the production team went to call in all the contracts, they discovered that Claudia had not signed on despite being one of the principal voices for getting others to sign on.  At a convention just before the deadline for Season 5 to begin JMS tried to convince her to join on.  He claims that she wanted a per episode bump (technically, her S4 salary but fewer episodes) which he couldn't accomodate because it would have resulted in corresponding bumps for the entire cast (favored nations) which would have scuttled the deal.  She claims that she was dissatisfied with the character in S4 where she was stuck with technobabble and reading stuff off a teleprompter.

It was just kinda weird....hell, even in the 60s Gene Roddenberry had to deal with Leonard Nimoy's demands after the first season of TOS.  At one point they had a list of potential actors to replace LM....and on that list were a couple of familiar names:  Lloyd Bochner and DAVID CARRADINE!  But they eventually came to an agreement.  A lot of fans (myself included) were perplexed as to the reasons more wasn't done to keep such a critical character on board.


I don't disagree.  If they'd had a full offseason between the end of S4 filming and the start of S5 then they might have been able to work it out, but because they were in limbo for a while before finally getting picked up it left them without enough time to solve the problem.  JMS did a book series of B5 scripts where he talks about the behind the scenes events and he makes it clear they were trying to negotiate things up to the very last minute in a bar at the hotel where this convention was being held, but couldn't come together.

Still kinda douche-baggy on this one.  Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.

True, but the point is that they had a shooting schedule which Foxworthy couldn't meet despite being contracted to do so.  They couldn't just have General Hague in the bathroom for the whole episode and the sets were going to have to be torn down at some point, so what other choice would there be except to kill him off.  The fact that it was a bit of a "fark you" was a side benefit.
 
2013-02-22 05:16:14 PM  

ristst: Ironically, Christian noted, her replacement (actress Tracy Scoggins) appeared on only eight episodes that season.


Uhm, that is totally wrong.

Scoggins was in every single episode in season 5. I think you are confusing her with Conaway - he was only in a fraction of the fifth season.
 
2013-02-22 05:16:31 PM  
Let's not forget Walter White's finest moment, sacrificing himself to distract the Shadows.
 
2013-02-22 05:19:21 PM  
Dangit dangit dangit.  I know I am going to break out the DVDs this weekend.... well there goes all my plans.
 
2013-02-22 05:44:20 PM  

Saiga410: Dangit dangit dangit.  I know I am going to break out the DVDs this weekend.... well there goes all my plans.

 
2013-02-22 05:51:31 PM  
Some of you confuse derision with analysis.
 
2013-02-22 06:06:12 PM  
No love for Starhunter?
No?

NONE???

Bah.

i150.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 06:13:18 PM  
i.imgur.com

20? more like 40 subby...

/well I was 8 then
 
2013-02-22 06:49:46 PM  

tillerman35: My vote goes to Space: 1999, with a nod to the Original Battlestar Gallactica (or more correctly stated, the ONLY Battlestar Gallactica).

/Off my lawn, you blasted kids!


No love for

i49.tinypic.com

digilander.libero.it

Always think of 1999 and UFO together for some reason.
 
2013-02-22 06:50:29 PM  
Huge sci-fi fan, but I have to admit I never watched B5. One of these days I'll get to it, I guess.
 
2013-02-22 07:20:31 PM  

hogans: But you're right, the series is pretty consistently good after about the first half of season one.

Farscape

hit its stride with the episodes "Nerve" and "The Hidden Memory" late in Season 1.  The show finally got a truly frightening antagonist and established what became the overall story-arc of the series.

Additionally, it had one of the greatest STFU moments in television history: "You know what I give you, Crais?  Your life.  I will make you watch your life."
 
2013-02-22 07:30:00 PM  

perigee: [static.btvguide.com image 512x341]
[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 259x195]
[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 251x201]

There - have three. No - no - make it four:

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 250x202]


You missed Jason of Star Command, which I watched in its entirety a couple of weeks ago.  It was...awwwwwwweessooooommmmmeeeee.
 
2013-02-22 07:32:17 PM  

cman: Oh HELL no

DS9 was greater than all other Treks plus Babylon 5 combined.

Well, it is amazing what stealing someone else's ideas and putting an established franchise budget behind them can accomplish.

 
2013-02-22 07:54:09 PM  

iaazathot: cman: Oh HELL no

DS9 was greater than all other Treks plus Babylon 5 combined.

Well, it is amazing what stealing someone else's ideas and putting an established franchise budget behind them can accomplish.


...and better writers, and better actors...
 
2013-02-22 08:21:20 PM  

VTGremlin: Season 5 did have one thing going for it. The best title sequence on a TV show.


Thanks for the link..I just watched it again

/damn that was good
 
2013-02-22 08:38:47 PM  

fusillade762: Always think of 1999 and UFO together for some reason.


Folks, do yourself a favor and run a quick Google image search on the lovely young lady in the purple wig, Gabrielle Drake.

You *won't* be disappointed.  Guaranteed.
 
2013-02-22 08:51:40 PM  

fusillade762: Huge sci-fi fan, but I have to admit I never watched B5. One of these days I'll get to it, I guess.


Don't let my comments give you the wrong impression.  The series is fragging epic.  I've passed it on to at least half dozen other friends, who have in turn passed it on to their friends.  Once it hooks you into the arcs you can't get enough of it.

For some reason I'm not as big of a fan of JMS as I once was.  Could be the Gwen Stacy thing.

But I got lotsa love for B5.  And DAMN...I sure wish Crusade had the chance to take off.  It probably would've been pretty great as well.  Could be I'm still a bit sore about that. Yeah...could be.
 
2013-02-22 08:57:52 PM  
i47.tinypic.com i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-22 09:01:48 PM  

madgonad: ristst: Ironically, Christian noted, her replacement (actress Tracy Scoggins) appeared on only eight episodes that season.

Uhm, that is totally wrong.

Scoggins was in every single episode in season 5. I think you are confusing her with Conaway - he was only in a fraction of the fifth season.



Sorry, that was a quote from that article.  Counting her IMDB credits, she appears in 11 episodes.  10 others were listed as (credit only).  To be honest, I don't recall.  For that matter I'd need to rewatch and note that kind of thing for her...or pretty much every character.  Plus...not quite as into the 5th season as the previous.  Soom good stuff, yes...but uneven.
 
2013-02-22 09:33:53 PM  

madgonad: Zombie DJ: Teufelaffe: **SPOILER below**

Same as Babylon 5.

Yep.
TOS killed Kirk and Spock 1.0
TNG has only killed Tasha and Data
DS9 killed Jadzia (kinda) and Sisko (kinda)
Voyager killed Janeway 2.0


Actually, TNG killed the entire Enterprise crew several times in a few episodes involving time loops. As well as killing Picard's future self in one of those time loop episodes. "All Good Thing" as both the Past and the Future Enterprises blow up as well. And there have been whole planets killed off or mutated during Trek as well. Borg destroyed planets or assimilated them.
 
2013-02-22 09:44:33 PM  
Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.
 
2013-02-22 10:12:13 PM  
yves0010:
I like how that relationship was still in the "are they / could they " playing field even through the movies. And I also like the idea that Wesley might of been Picard's child. I heard one of those fan theories and it actually makes up for the whole "Shut Up Welsey" lines that happen every episode. But yes, it could of been better if Wesley was done in some how. Or made his character a lot more bad ass as he grew up.

Please - stop doing this.

/might have
//could have
 
2013-02-22 10:33:29 PM  
Feh!

I know a certain sci-fi show that is celebrating it's 50th anniversary this year!

/B5 is NOTHING!
 
2013-02-22 10:47:19 PM  

Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.


79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.
 
2013-02-22 10:47:25 PM  

yves0010: And there have been whole planets killed off or mutated during Trek as well. Borg destroyed planets or assimilated them.


Meh... the Vorlons and Shadows were killing planets like they were crushing ants, just because of their alignment to the other party, and would probably have sterilized the galaxy if they hadn't been stopped. Just because they could. And because they were a bunch of sociopaths.
 
2013-02-22 11:05:25 PM  

How did we end up in this dumazz episode anyhow??

sparklynnrocks.files.wordpress.com

 
2013-02-22 11:05:34 PM  

Omnivorous: War of the Worlds (1938).

Now get off Orson Welles' lawn.

/John Houseman produced that broadcast.


I liked the TV series.
www.topdvdhotdeal.net
Which came in two flavors thanks to gigantic reboot between seasons.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-22 11:30:30 PM  

HempHead: How did we end up in this dumazz episode anyhow??


Shut your goddamned mouth.

/loving B5 doesn't mean I don't also love DS9
 
2013-02-22 11:41:23 PM  
www.deviantart.com
Why did you have to be so expensive to make
/hot
 
2013-02-22 11:50:01 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.

79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.


Do you have a link for that?  When I got the WB I see it as over $200.

tinderfitles: [www.deviantart.com image 850x531]
Why did you have to be so expensive to make
/hot


In the pilot episode they had a flat screen TV in someone's home.  Mind you this is in the early/mid 90's.  It looked super futuristic; but that prop was on screen for 15 secs and probably cost $10k.

/no link to the Geek tab for this story guys?
 
2013-02-22 11:52:50 PM  

KingsleyZisou: OtherLittleGuy: Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.

79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.

Do you have a link for that?  When I got the WB I see it as over $200.


Got to go to wbstore.com instead of warnerbros.com.

http://www.wbshop.com/search.do?query=babylon+5
 
2013-02-22 11:54:00 PM  

Teufelaffe: KingsleyZisou: OtherLittleGuy: Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.

79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.

Do you have a link for that?  When I got the WB I see it as over $200.

Got to go to wbstore.com instead of warnerbros.com.

http://www.wbshop.com/search.do?query=babylon+5


er...wbshop.com.
 
2013-02-22 11:54:14 PM  

tillerman35: Giving Flounder a major role and the involvement of Bruce Boxleightner pretty much killed it for me.  Also the weird transylvanian accents that those space-vampire looking dudes had were pretty annoying.  Cool graphics for its time, though.

My vote goes to Space: 1999, with a nod to the Original Battlestar Gallactica (or more correctly stated, the ONLY Battlestar Gallactica).

/Off my lawn, you blasted kids!


I grew up in the 70s and this was one of my favorite shows.  The episode with the derelict space station housing this hypnotizing monster  that would melt corpses scared the crap out of me.  Best disco theme song evar!
 
2013-02-22 11:56:53 PM  

KingsleyZisou: OtherLittleGuy: Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.

79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.

Do you have a link for that?  When I got the WB I see it as over $200.

tinderfitles: [www.deviantart.com image 850x531]
Why did you have to be so expensive to make
/hot

In the pilot episode they had a flat screen TV in someone's home.  Mind you this is in the early/mid 90's.  It looked super futuristic; but that prop was on screen for 15 secs and probably cost $10k.

/no link to the Geek tab for this story guys?


Thats a hosing.  WB is selling the individual seasons and the movies for $12.

http://www.wbshop.com/product/babylon+5+the+complete+third+season+10 00 045163.do?ref=CAFRGL&CAWELAID=908434271&gclid=CO2fztDRy7UCFc5AMgodIVgA Rw
 
2013-02-23 12:02:56 AM  

RocketRay: tillerman35: Giving Flounder a major role and the involvement of Bruce Boxleightner pretty much killed it for me.  Also the weird transylvanian accents that those space-vampire looking dudes had were pretty annoying.  Cool graphics for its time, though.

My vote goes to Space: 1999, with a nod to the Original Battlestar Gallactica (or more correctly stated, the ONLY Battlestar Gallactica).

/Off my lawn, you blasted kids!

I grew up in the 70s and this was one of my favorite shows.  The episode with the derelict space station housing this hypnotizing monster  that would melt corpses scared the crap out of me.  Best disco theme song evar!


Yeah, loved that show.  A little beyond your typical TV gore for the period:


i50.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-23 12:23:08 AM  

yves0010: madgonad: Zombie DJ: Teufelaffe: **SPOILER below**

Same as Babylon 5.

Yep.
TOS killed Kirk and Spock 1.0
TNG has only killed Tasha and Data
DS9 killed Jadzia (kinda) and Sisko (kinda)
Voyager killed Janeway 2.0

Actually, TNG killed the entire Enterprise crew several times in a few episodes involving time loops. As well as killing Picard's future self in one of those time loop episodes. "All Good Thing" as both the Past and the Future Enterprises blow up as well. And there have been whole planets killed off or mutated during Trek as well. Borg destroyed planets or assimilated them.


Didn't Voyager also kill off a whole crew of dopplegangers at one point?


vrax: [i47.tinypic.com image 397x300] [i49.tinypic.com image 400x300]


A miniseries even Bradbury described as boring?
 
2013-02-23 12:26:57 AM  

ristst: FirstNationalBastard: ristst: Wonder how RF's DS9 pay compared to his B5 salary?  My guess is it was probably better on DS9.  Plus DS9 was on a major network, which would potentially lead to him getting more work.

Uh... DS9 was on the same "major network" as Babylon 5... meaning it was a syndicated show.

Hell, B5 was actually on a network when it went to TNT. DS9 was a syndicated show until the end.

/Voyager and Enterprise were the shows on UPN... but you can't really call that a major network.

I stand corrected.  But I'd still wager that DS9's production had somewhat deeper pockets that B5's, and most likely a broader fan base.  But a lot of that was due to B5's schedule bouncing around so much during the PTEN days.  Geez, at one point it aired at 1:00AM on Sunday nite!  Got good use of the ol' VCR back then....


A sort of CSB..

The local PTEN announcer in St. Louis, when announcing Babylon 5 in the first season, was just saying "And now, bad hair and all, it's Babylon 5!"  Not very respectful.

Well, once I complained about that on the Usenet B5 forum.  I never noticed a reply online... but I never heard that phrase again.  The next time the show aired, the guy had a few paragraphs to read!
 
2013-02-23 12:31:03 AM  

tillerman35: Giving Flounder a major role and the involvement of Bruce Boxleightner pretty much killed it for me.  Also the weird transylvanian accents that those space-vampire looking dudes had were pretty annoying.  Cool graphics for its time, though.

My vote goes to Space: 1999, with a nod to the Original Battlestar Gallactica (or more correctly stated, the ONLY Battlestar Gallactica).

/Off my lawn, you blasted kids!


Yeah, I liked the original BSG too.  And then I grew up.
 
2013-02-23 12:33:59 AM  

yves0010: madgonad: Zombie DJ: Teufelaffe: **SPOILER below**

Same as Babylon 5.

Yep.
TOS killed Kirk and Spock 1.0
TNG has only killed Tasha and Data
DS9 killed Jadzia (kinda) and Sisko (kinda)
Voyager killed Janeway 2.0

Actually, TNG killed the entire Enterprise crew several times in a few episodes involving time loops. As well as killing Picard's future self in one of those time loop episodes. "All Good Thing" as both the Past and the Future Enterprises blow up as well. And there have been whole planets killed off or mutated during Trek as well. Borg destroyed planets or assimilated them.


Blake's 7 killed everyone
 
2013-02-23 01:20:50 AM  

fusillade762: vrax: [i47.tinypic.com image 397x300] [i49.tinypic.com image 400x300]

A miniseries even Bradbury described as boring?


Hush, you!
 
2013-02-23 01:29:46 AM  
There is a huge lack of Romi from Andromeda in this thread....
 
2013-02-23 01:45:18 AM  

Mentat: Reading this thread, I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by ducks.


Speaking of ducks...
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-23 02:49:28 AM  

Alphax: The local PTEN announcer in St. Louis, when announcing Babylon 5 in the first season, was just saying "And now, bad hair and all, it's Babylon 5!"  Not very respectful.


I can remember Mojo Nixon hosting "120 Minutes" on MTV. I guess they made him play a Cure song because he introduced it as "Here's the big ugly Cure!"
 
2013-02-23 05:13:17 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.

79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.


I couldn't find a complete set of Babylon 5 in the US, but the UK has one. With the exchange rate it comes out to about $90 but has all the movies and associated series so it's a pretty good deal.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Babylon-Complete-Collection-Lost-Tales/dp/B0 00 WDSRG4
 
2013-02-23 05:47:23 AM  

cman: Oh HELL no

DS9 was greater than all other Treks plus Babylon 5 combined.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-02-23 05:47:38 AM  

fusillade762: Always think of 1999 and UFO together for some reason.


BEcasue they were both Gerry "Thunderbirds" Anderson shows.
 
2013-02-23 05:48:16 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Ahem.

Babylon 5's a big pile of shiate!
[blogs.e-rockford.com image 440x247]
/hot


GET OUT!

Yay!

/ Came here for Tim Bisley
// leaving satisfied
 
2013-02-23 05:52:59 AM  
DS9 was uneven.  One episode the death toll from the Dominion War is an unbearable burden.. the next, it's off to Risa on vacation.
 
2013-02-23 06:04:07 AM  

inert: [i.imgur.com image 320x240]

Now hang your head in shame and slowly walk away subby.


Movie version doesn't get enough love, and is better than the fanboys who trashed it.  There, I said it.

/I'll watch the movie version again and again
//It's too bad there won't be sequels :(
 
2013-02-23 06:09:30 AM  

Surly U. Jest: [upload.wikimedia.org image 500x280]


Indeed.
 
2013-02-23 06:19:02 AM  

Lexx: Surly U. Jest: [upload.wikimedia.org image 500x280]

I think B5 predates SG.  And B5 had a far, far overall plot arc, though I I really did enjoy the actors in SG.


The arc of the Jafar people from the Movie itself to Stargate Atlantis was the most important background arc of the entire series. The Jafar people becoming an independent people again is what allows for the fight against the Ori and any other wannabe gods to succeed.

/off topic: how were the Trill able to avoid the trap the majority of the Go'auld species found themselves in in regards to their hosts?
//Is Trill more 'natural'... or Go'auld?
 
2013-02-23 06:28:47 AM  

soopey: [earthprime.com image 800x600]

Wasn't so bad. There. I said it. At least for the first 2 seasons. Everything after Arturo being killed sucks.


Our Arturo wasn't killed. He's still on Azure Gate Bridge world... unless one of the other alternative versions of the gang showed up to pick him up and take him along.

/ What happened to our Arturo was sad poetic justice for what our Arturo originally tried to do to Quinn
//I wanted to hate Colin, but I ended up loving him
///Kari Wuhrer is beautiful but the show ended when she was introduced
////Mallory and the black chick were not main character worthy. That's the writers fault.. which makes it Sci-Fi Syfy's Sci-Fi's fault for interfering
 
2013-02-23 06:30:46 AM  
Shout-out to Remmy for busting the network's balls in order to get the Real Wade back on the show instead of using a cheaper voice actress.
 
2013-02-23 06:47:13 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Recommended for Season 1

- "The War Prayer", Danica McKellar and Londo's best quote about dancing
- "Believers", only shows like "Walking Dead" and "Breaking Bad" would 'go there'
- "Chrysalis", the season finale,


The ending of 'Believers' hurt my soul.  But I understood why the parents did it, and also why Dr. Steven was wrong.
 
2013-02-23 09:39:03 AM  
Best bit of trivia for B5 was that for the first four seasons it was money from Channel 4 in the UK that kept it going and as a thanks from the mid point of season 2 onwards every com request was on channel 4.

/now you know you will see it every where
 
2013-02-23 09:44:27 AM  

fusillade762: yves0010: madgonad: Zombie DJ: Teufelaffe: **SPOILER below**

Same as Babylon 5.

Yep.
TOS killed Kirk and Spock 1.0
TNG has only killed Tasha and Data
DS9 killed Jadzia (kinda) and Sisko (kinda)
Voyager killed Janeway 2.0

Actually, TNG killed the entire Enterprise crew several times in a few episodes involving time loops. As well as killing Picard's future self in one of those time loop episodes. "All Good Thing" as both the Past and the Future Enterprises blow up as well. And there have been whole planets killed off or mutated during Trek as well. Borg destroyed planets or assimilated them.

Didn't Voyager also kill off a whole crew of dopplegangers at one point?



Yes they did. And they also killed off the entire crew in a time loop as well. The episode where they tested out the Quantum Slipstream Drive caused everyone except Kim and Chekote to die. The episode Kess came back and killed everyone. Even the episode where the corrupt time cop planted a bomb and killed everyone.

Also, TNG killed Tasha twice. Once with the black tar monster and the other was in an alternate timeline where the Enterprise C came through a time rift (Yesterday's Enterprise). Tasha went back with the Enterprise C and was captured, married off, had a child and killed running away from the Romulans.
 
2013-02-23 11:45:07 AM  

EngineerAU: OtherLittleGuy: Stile4aly: Well, that does it. Bought the complete series from WB. Good news is it's 75% off. Bad news is I have to tell the wife.

79%. With the movies and all 5 seasons, it's about $75. Not bad.

I couldn't find a complete set of Babylon 5 in the US, but the UK has one. With the exchange rate it comes out to about $90 but has all the movies and associated series so it's a pretty good deal.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Babylon-Complete-Collection-Lost-Tales/dp/B0 00 WDSRG4


I looked on the US side of Amazon and found this.  What the hell is WB thinking if amazon is undercutting them by $100?!

/farking markets how do they work?
//also drop the price on the god damn Batman: Animated series stuff already!  I want my childhood without bankrupting my present.
 
2013-02-23 11:50:37 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: ...and better writers,


I'm sure you meant some other word.
 
2013-02-23 12:41:15 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: This only lasted like 5 minutes, but I kind of always wanted to see where it was going to go.

[www.episodeguide.us image 234x188][sciwiki.scifiontv.com image 251x188]


That was science fiction? I'd have watched it, if I had known.  As it was, with a name like 'Mercy Point' I thought it was just another hospital drama like ER and Chicago Hope and St. Elsewhere, and I wasn't intereste in watching a hospital drama.

Hope it's on Netflix.
 
2013-02-23 01:04:14 PM  
I want Life on Mars to come back. I said it, and I won't take it back.
 
2013-02-23 01:18:30 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I want Life on Mars to come back. I said it, and I won't take it back.


Life on Mars is over. Hell, Gene Hunt's story was finished up in Ashes to Ashes.

If you're talking about Life on Mars US, why bother? The good show from the UK is over and done with.
 
2013-02-23 01:33:09 PM  

Bloody William: Barely off-topic, but can we agree that a sci-fi buddy cop show starring Keith David and Avery Brooks as themselves would be the greatest program ever made?

/I really want to know where Brooks buys his pot. If you've seen him talk, you know he has the farking HOOKUP.



It'd only last 4 episodes because the networks are pussies.
 
2013-02-23 02:24:31 PM  

Nem Wan: Omnivorous: War of the Worlds (1938).

Now get off Orson Welles' lawn.

/John Houseman produced that broadcast.

I liked the TV series.
[www.topdvdhotdeal.net image 320x260]
Which came in two flavors thanks to gigantic reboot between seasons.
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 588x331]


The Norton Drake era was must-watch tv.
The Kincaide era was meh tv - same old post-apocalyptic shiat, but I still watched it.

/never should have killed off Norton Drake
//never
 
2013-02-23 02:56:25 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: ExperianScaresCthulhu: I want Life on Mars to come back. I said it, and I won't take it back.

Life on Mars is over. Hell, Gene Hunt's story was finished up in Ashes to Ashes.

If you're talking about Life on Mars US, why bother? The good show from the UK is over and done with.


Bother because the music was good, the plot lines intertwined together well after finding out what was going on, the leads had great chemistry and their relationship arcs grew organically, and I respect a show that attempts to provide closure instead of trying to force a cliffhanger in an attempt to play chicken with the networks.

I need to buy the boxed set.  It's not boring, I find something new everytime I watch it on netflix and I'm sorry it's going away soon.  I know the Brits hate it, but I hate what the Brits did with Invasion: Earth so we're even.

Everything doesn't have to be Brit to be watchable -- or rewatchable.  I loved the show, and the year they took it off was the same year they took off Sarah Connor and Reaper (which some folks say isn't as good as Brimstone, but fk 'em).

2009 was a really bad year for cancellations :(
 
2013-02-23 04:00:26 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: FirstNationalBastard: ExperianScaresCthulhu: I want Life on Mars to come back. I said it, and I won't take it back.

Life on Mars is over. Hell, Gene Hunt's story was finished up in Ashes to Ashes.

If you're talking about Life on Mars US, why bother? The good show from the UK is over and done with.

Bother because the music was good, the plot lines intertwined together well after finding out what was going on, the leads had great chemistry and their relationship arcs grew organically, and I respect a show that attempts to provide closure instead of trying to force a cliffhanger in an attempt to play chicken with the networks.

I need to buy the boxed set.  It's not boring, I find something new everytime I watch it on netflix and I'm sorry it's going away soon.  I know the Brits hate it, but I hate what the Brits did with Invasion: Earth so we're even.

Everything doesn't have to be Brit to be watchable -- or rewatchable.  I loved the show, and the year they took it off was the same year they took off Sarah Connor and Reaper (which some folks say isn't as good as Brimstone, but fk 'em).

2009 was a really bad year for cancellations :(


The ending of Life on Mars US ruined the entire show. the final 10 minutes retroactively made the other 18 hours crap. It has no rewatchability, because you know that it's going to turn into a big pile of shiat.

But the UK version... wonderful ending, way better cast, better writing, and a sequel that was not quite as good as Life on Mars, but better than anything on US Network TV.

Everything doesn't have to be brit to be rewatchable, but if it was originally a British show, odds are that 9 out of 10 times a US Adaptation will suck the drizzling shiat out of a homeless crack addict's anus.
 
2013-02-23 08:31:21 PM  
Over 350 comments and you guys still don't get it right:

www.town.ural.ru
 
2013-02-24 09:00:24 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: PIP_the_TROLL: This only lasted like 5 minutes, but I kind of always wanted to see where it was going to go.

[www.episodeguide.us image 234x188][sciwiki.scifiontv.com image 251x188]

That was science fiction? I'd have watched it, if I had known.  As it was, with a name like 'Mercy Point' I thought it was just another hospital drama like ER and Chicago Hope and St. Elsewhere, and I wasn't intereste in watching a hospital drama.

Hope it's on Netflix.


Doubtful. It only had like four or five eps I think.

The basic idea was that Earth was pretty new to the whole intergalactic community thing. Mercy Point was a frontier medical outpost along some kind of crossroads or something. Basically it was a hospital version of DS9.

Pretty decent concept but died almost immediately.
 
2013-02-24 02:47:48 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: ExperianScaresCthulhu: PIP_the_TROLL: This only lasted like 5 minutes, but I kind of always wanted to see where it was going to go.

[www.episodeguide.us image 234x188][sciwiki.scifiontv.com image 251x188]

That was science fiction? I'd have watched it, if I had known.  As it was, with a name like 'Mercy Point' I thought it was just another hospital drama like ER and Chicago Hope and St. Elsewhere, and I wasn't intereste in watching a hospital drama.

Hope it's on Netflix.

Doubtful. It only had like four or five eps I think.

The basic idea was that Earth was pretty new to the whole intergalactic community thing. Mercy Point was a frontier medical outpost along some kind of crossroads or something. Basically it was a hospital version of DS9.

Pretty decent concept but died almost immediately.


Along those lines, "Century City" was a legal show in the future. Another interesting concept, but it died a quick death as well (nine episodes).

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_City_(TV_series)
 
2013-02-24 03:22:50 PM  

flaminio: Along those lines, "Century City" was a legal show in the future. Another interesting concept, but it died a quick death as well (nine episodes).

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_City_(TV_series)


Jeez, that sounds interesting as heck. As a scifi fan and an L&O junkie, this would have been right up my alley. I doubt I'd have any luck finding the eps though, even through torrents.
 
2013-02-24 04:18:49 PM  
I lost my copy of B5 season 5 a few years ago, and figured it wasn't that big of a loss.  This thread just prompted me to repurchase it though, dammit.  I really hope it's better than I remember.
 
2013-02-24 10:40:30 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: flaminio: Along those lines, "Century City" was a legal show in the future. Another interesting concept, but it died a quick death as well (nine episodes).

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_City_(TV_series)

Jeez, that sounds interesting as heck. As a scifi fan and an L&O junkie, this would have been right up my alley. I doubt I'd have any luck finding the eps though, even through torrents.


Surprisingly, it's on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/#!century-city
 
2013-02-25 08:29:25 AM  
Heh, wow. I'm definitely checking this out.
 
2013-02-25 10:02:27 AM  

Bloody William: Barely off-topic, but can we agree that a sci-fi buddy cop show starring Keith David and Avery Brooks as themselves would be the greatest program ever made?

/I really want to know where Brooks buys his pot. If you've seen him talk, you know he has the farking HOOKUP.


Dude, do you WANT to destroy the universe by making such a paradox happen?
 
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