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(CNN)   Tech news postulates that Apple is losing its cool. This is not a repeat of every year since 1984   (cnn.com) divider line 160
    More: Amusing, Apple, iTunes Store, tech news, technical writers, biggest companies, .ms, Microsoft Office  
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2613 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Feb 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 12:05:37 PM
images1.vat19.com

You know, I really wasn't interested at first, but I had a shiat ton of slap bracelets in fourth grade. Those things were awesome. I might actually want one.
 
2013-02-22 12:09:14 PM

sp1dey73: Didn't read the article, nor do I care about "cool" (perks of getting older), but I'll share my opinion nonetheless...

I still think OSX is the best commercial operating system and I like MacBooks.  I'm still rocking a late 2008 pro thanks to a SSD I added last year.  Sure, I could get a newer faster model, but until this dies, it's good enough.  Unless OSX morphs into iOS on laptops, its eventual replacement will be another MacBook.

I have no interest in tablets, so no comment on ipads.

I'm on my second iphone (first was a 3s, now a 4s).  This market has changed a lot in the past year or two... my contract is up this year and I'm likely to switch.  I've played around with the iphone 5 and really like the camera on it (important feature to me), but iOS is incredibly stale at this point.  I'm sure there will be a 5s before my contract expires, but I'm more interested in how they overhaul iOS.  All I really would like would the ability to choose new default applications for Maps, Email, and Browser, more control over the homescreen (widgets and such), and allow me to delete unused apple apps!



I have a MBP that i love as well and will definitely buy another one. I traded my iPhone 4S for a Nexus 4 and it was a great decision.  Android is far more advanced than iOS and the amount of customization is amazing. I love that you can encrypt the whole phone quickly out of the box and their widgets make the home screens far more useful.
 
2013-02-22 12:09:40 PM

i upped my meds-up yours: theurge14: For the last farking time, it's not about "being cool".  It's about having something that works exceptionally well.  Yes, there are always the handful of idiots who really do think it's just about a status symbol, but the rest of us are glad to use a product that doesn't suck balls in some major way.  Brand loyalty is built up over time when the whole "doesn't suck balls" thing is discovered to be true for a number of different products.

Not sucking balls? What is this artisanal luxury computer bullshiat? Cheap and readily replaceable is the law of the market, and the market is always perfect and never wrong. Only limousine liberal hipster douchebags go against the market. Real Americans buy $199 Dells like they were toothbrushes.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-22 12:14:37 PM
bp2.blogger.com
 
2013-02-22 12:20:49 PM

RexTalionis: The iPhone user became decidedly less cool when it became the phone that your parents want.


Well, aren't you the little rebel?
 
2013-02-22 12:20:55 PM
They need somethin', that's for sure. Apple hasn't done anything innovative in quite a while.
 
2013-02-22 12:23:23 PM
as someone that use to work retail, i would push apple on anyone under 14 and anyone over 40 because i knew they would be able to use the device, wouldn't return it and would think they are being edgey and cool...

those are not the cool age brackets
 
2013-02-22 12:24:16 PM

theurge14: For the last farking time, it's not about "being cool".


Oh, hush. You're going to make Rex Talionis cry, you meanie. (I swear to God, the real hipsters are the farking haters.)
 
2013-02-22 12:26:25 PM
Apple stopped being cool when poor people started to be able to own their products instead of lusting over those with the disposable income to own them. There's nothing quite as effective as like being sold at Wal-Mart for ruining one's image.
 
2013-02-22 12:27:20 PM

tbhouston: as someone that use to work retail, i would push apple on anyone under 14 and anyone over 40 because i knew they would be able to use the device, wouldn't return it and would think they are being edgey and cool...

those are not the cool age brackets


*pssst* Adults don't give a shiat about being "cool". We already know we're not.
 
2013-02-22 12:27:45 PM

hinten: 30 million iPhone Lemmings marching of the cliff: Lemmings


Is that officially the world's most ironic commercial?
 
2013-02-22 12:28:35 PM

Ed Grubermann: tbhouston: as someone that use to work retail, i would push apple on anyone under 14 and anyone over 40 because i knew they would be able to use the device, wouldn't return it and would think they are being edgey and cool...

those are not the cool age brackets

*pssst* Adults don't give a shiat about being "cool". We already know we're not.


Stop harshing his vibe, old man.

Don't you have a pair of white leather shoes and a plane ticket to Boca Raton to be buying?
 
2013-02-22 12:29:31 PM

hinten: 30 million iPhone Lemmings marching of the cliff: Lemmings


I just want to point out Lemmings don't actually march off cliffs normally. Disney pushed them.
 
2013-02-22 12:31:24 PM

theurge14: For the last farking time, it's not about "being cool".  It's about having something that works exceptionally well.


The iPhone does nothing that my Android can't, while my Android "works exceptionally well", PLUS will do a lot of things that the iPhone won't. Most of those due to the arrogance of Apple.
 
2013-02-22 12:35:31 PM
I've been using Windows on my Lumia 920 for the past 3 months.  It's fast, extremely user friendly and all around badass.

Just wanted to throw that out there.
 
2013-02-22 12:38:16 PM

sure haven't: Endive Wombat: sure haven't: their UI looks archaic

In what regard?  I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, I just want to understand what you mean by that.

I know any UI anywhere is just "rows of boxes", but they're UI has that shiny bubble effect on it, which was the style in the mid-2000's. The screen contains everything, instead of understanding that you can expand it by having things appear as if they're out of the screen. It's just clunky looking. Not sure how else to explain it, don't have the words or the time right now :(


Part of it is the fact that Apple doesn't allow things like widgets, and apparently only allowed the changing of wallpaper after enough people biatched. They also don't have an app drawer, your apps have to be on one of your screens, no matter what. I can hide the dock and the notification on my home screens, so all I have is a clock and weather widget on one screen, a full screen day planner on another, folders with apps on another, a world clock on another, and media player controls on another. iPhone wouldn't let you do any of theat. All I had to do was changethe launcher, and didn't need root.

Apple's UI hasn't changed since the iPhone was first introduced, really.
 
2013-02-22 12:38:56 PM
Blackberry will be back. Mark my words.
 
2013-02-22 12:49:47 PM
I buy gadgets for their functionality, features, and ease if use.

Anyone who buys expensive shiny junk for the cool factor deserves Apple crap.

I'm thrilled with my rooted Android tablets and phones.
 
2013-02-22 12:49:52 PM
Who'dve thunk that one little bone-headed decision by Jobs would has such dastardly consequences?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-22 12:53:48 PM

Mikey1969: theurge14: For the last farking time, it's not about "being cool".  It's about having something that works exceptionally well.

The iPhone does nothing that my Android can't, while my Android "works exceptionally well",


Scroll text smoothly, for instance?  Or have the OS updated in a timely manner without waiting years for the carrier to do something about it.

PLUS will do a lot of things that the iPhone won't. Most of those due to the arrogance of Apple.

I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.  Also the ability to root and put Cyanogen Mod on the phone is pretty tits, you know, to replace the boring default stuff on there.  Oh, can't forget Apple's arrogance in determining that the ability to put an animation as my default wallpaper is pretty offense, I mean, who are they to tell me I can't put a wallpaper on my phone that will eat my battery in 2 hours on there?
 
2013-02-22 01:07:30 PM
That company has become its own parody - especially if you look at their 1984 commercial.

/Happy with one of Samsung's Android-powered phones w/ a sliding keyboard
//Wouldn't have it any other way except if Nokia brought back the N950.
 
2013-02-22 01:10:57 PM

theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.  Also the ability to root and put Cyanogen Mod on the phone is pretty tits, you know, to replace the boring default stuff on there.  Oh, can't forget Apple's arrogance in determining that the ability to put an animation as my default wallpaper is pretty offense, I mean, who are they to tell me I can't put a wallpaper on my phone that will eat my battery in 2 hours on there?


Apple's arrogance is the belief that if THEY didn't think of it first, then you obviously don't need it.

People jailbreak their iPhones all of the time, meaning that your snark regarding dropping the ROM for CM is pretty meaningless.

Wallpapers don't eat your battery in 2 hours, unless you're somehow mentally retarded enough to use a live wallpaper like a game for 2 hours straight.

In 3 years of owning Androids and rooting them, I have never loaded Malware, people are doing it wrong if they are.
 
2013-02-22 01:13:22 PM

cman: Apple was cool when it was fringe

Now its mainstream and it is no longer as prestigious as it once was. I mean, why would a rich man buy a Rolls Royce if anyone on the street could own one? A Rolls Royce is a big "fark you I'm rich" car


i66.photobucket.com

I saw three of these by the local starbucks!
 
2013-02-22 01:22:00 PM
The spell they put over people couldn't have lasted forever.
 
2013-02-22 01:23:52 PM
img14.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-22 01:26:05 PM

theurge14: Mikey1969: theurge14: For the last farking time, it's not about "being cool".  It's about having something that works exceptionally well.

The iPhone does nothing that my Android can't, while my Android "works exceptionally well",

Scroll text smoothly, for instance?  Or have the OS updated in a timely manner without waiting years for the carrier to do something about it.

PLUS will do a lot of things that the iPhone won't. Most of those due to the arrogance of Apple.

I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.  Also the ability to root and put Cyanogen Mod on the phone is pretty tits, you know, to replace the boring default stuff on there.  Oh, can't forget Apple's arrogance in determining that the ability to put an animation as my default wallpaper is pretty offense, I mean, who are they to tell me I can't put a wallpaper on my phone that will eat my battery in 2 hours on there?


You... don't think that it's rendering the wallpaper all the time do you? You realize that when things aren't being drawn to the screen, they usually aren't being drawn to anywhere... So unless you've got your phone on and staring at your home screen, it's not consuming any processing resources.
 
2013-02-22 01:27:50 PM

Mikey1969: They also don't have an app drawer, your apps have to be on one of your screens


They do.

*presses and holds an app*

*drags it to another app*

*names new drawer*
 
2013-02-22 01:28:51 PM
That's it, shills and brainwashed losers! Keep repeating this propaganda and eventually that will make it true.

/I think I just sprained something rolling my eyes
 
2013-02-22 01:33:08 PM

theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.


Ah, yes, any app not Approved by Apple is automatically full of malware.   Unclean, you might call it.  Anyone not Approved by Apple is untrustworthy, and you should be  prevented from installing their software on your phone, because there is  absolutely no such thing as a phone app without malware that's not Approved by Apple.

You must live in constant fear.
 
2013-02-22 01:34:55 PM

fallingcow: Mikey1969: They also don't have an app drawer, your apps have to be on one of your screens

They do.

*presses and holds an app*

*drags it to another app*

*names new drawer*


People on Android (where this behavior was invented) call these  folders; the App Drawer is where you scroll through all installed apps (sans some custom behavior from your launcher).  I believe that's what Apple calls a "home screen", somewhat to my amusement.
 
2013-02-22 01:43:53 PM

Dokushin: theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.

Ah, yes, any app not Approved by Apple is automatically full of malware.   Unclean, you might call it.  Anyone not Approved by Apple is untrustworthy, and you should be  prevented from installing their software on your phone, because there is  absolutely no such thing as a phone app without malware that's not Approved by Apple.

You must live in constant fear.


The whole Apple ecosystem is about making Grandma (or any non-geek, really) feel safe buying and using software.  Many of the measures taken toward that end also make Apple money (the app store, in-app purchases, etc.) but nearly all absolutely do improve the experience for typical users.

Grandma can't get an email telling her about this awesome iOS App that she should download, JUST CLICK HERE! and end up with a virus.  If an app asks for money for something, it has to do it openly and it can't take your credit card details directly.  Grandma doesn't biatch to her friends about how awful her iPhone is because the battery runs out in two hours and the (carrier-installed) messaging apps and browsers are pieces of shiat.  And so on.

There are good reasons for most of what Apple does, but all that many tech-savvy people can see is "zomg Apple hates users and loves money!"  Yes, you can't run a webserver on iOS.  Buy something else if that's what you want to use your phone for.
 
2013-02-22 01:52:16 PM
Apple's customer service has generally been awesome. They straight up replaced two of our iPhones when they really probably didn't have to (cracked screen from being dropped and broken backlight due to being dropped in water). I was really blown away and didn't think I'd ever switch, but two years later I finally decided to see what else was out there and I've been really, really impressed by how much better hardware and software there is on the Android side. The only thing irksome has been customer service, but even going through AT&T wasn't to awful.
 
2013-02-22 01:52:50 PM
I see "Apple is only cool to people who have iProducts" has been covered.
The rest of us don't really give a fark and are not envious, so shut the fark up about how great your mobile map app is.
 
2013-02-22 01:52:57 PM

theurge14: For the last farking time, it's not about "being cool".  It's about having something that works exceptionally well.  Yes, there are always the handful of idiots who really do think it's just about a status symbol, but the rest of us are glad to use a product that doesn't suck balls in some major way.  Brand loyalty is built up over time when the whole "doesn't suck balls" thing is discovered to be true for a number of different products.

These "tech reporters" who write click-gathering articles like this aren't getting it.  "Cool factor" is not only factor here, or even the major one.  Otherwise all the products listed would've been chucked away and rejected by people long ago.  iPods have been around for 12 years now.  iPhone has been around for 6 and more or less looks about the same.  The current Macbook form factor has been around for about 7 years.  Same with the iMac line.  "Cool factor" doesn't apply to that sort of timeline.


It's funny that after so many years, you still linger to this.

Apple products aren't as "exceptional" as you want to believe, and that's the problem...

For some people, they work fine, and are the right choice for them.  For others, it simply isn't.

I know many with Apple devices from iPhones to their home machine, and all of them tend to be "I love my Apple stuff so much, it's the greatest thing ever, every thing else is crap."

Problem is... I also hear them talk about trouble they have, things that they can't do, or can't do easily, things breaking down, etc.

I know that you'll come back... "exceptional doesn't mean flawless" or something... but the irritant is that this is all anyone that doesn't care for Apple products have to deal with... over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  and over  (get the point?)

I have many devices and machines that "don't suck balls" but I don't rant about them, I'll discuss them if someone asked, or use them as an example of a relevant topic, but with Apple users... I could speak about road kill and they try to weasel a way to talk about their Apple product.

The number of people that went and got Apple product simply because it's "the cool thing to have" is very high.

Personally, I think that the iPhone and iPad are very nice devices, not nice enough that I'd get them as I refuse to install iTunes and/nor will ever want Apple to get a single penny from me as I just don't believe in that company's ethics and mentality.

What if comes down to, is that Apple monopolized society with the "coolness" factor to sell and it worked, that you want to accept this or not, it is the reality.  It pushed itself to be endorsed as the machine to have, as, the problem is, when each of their devices came out, there always was an alternative, most times, quite superior, but lacked the vision and the push that Steve managed to get out and sell his brand.

You should appreciate this as otherwise Apple would not have survived.(and this is completely Job's doing)  He's gone and it does have a serious impact on Apple's survival at this point... they need to prove themselves to be more than Steve's ship without a captain, but so far, it's not looking all that great.

Apple has been a great wake-up call for the technological field and it pushed everyone to push harder or sink (and many did).

But still, Apple is able to have stable devices due to the strictness that they have within their approach, and it works great for them, but it's not for everyone, and many just go with it because they don't know better, aren't inclined to look for anything more than the media feeds them.

And yes..."cool" lifespans isn't about the device itself, just the brand name is enough...

Look at Coke and Pepsi, and any other example of brand battle... if a company's brand gets tainted, it's hard to recover, it's their biggest asset.

Apple could come out with an absolute piece of crap, and still, many Apple fans would defend it to the death... and that's the point... it wouldn't be about quality, but about defending the brand that they feel linked to, attached in a very unhealthy way.
 
2013-02-22 01:57:05 PM

Endive Wombat: I would like to see apple take a stab at the DSLR market.  I mean really, you've only got 2 choices when it comes to cameras - Nikon and Canon.  In reflecting back on their track record over the last say 10 years, I think that they could do it well.

Although everything from the raw file formats, to the connectors, to the types of memory cards it uses, to tripod mounts will all be proprietary, unique, and unnecessarily expensive.


I was going to say that if you really think that there's only Canon and Nikon as the choice for DSLR, you need to read more before making such a limited comment, but odds are, you're not a camera/photography person and the points would be moot.
 
2013-02-22 01:57:57 PM

fallingcow: Mikey1969: They also don't have an app drawer, your apps have to be on one of your screens

They do.

*presses and holds an app*

*drags it to another app*

*names new drawer*


Ooooooh! A folder!! That's almost as innovative as Apple implying that they have invented noise cancellation...

Yeah, I've had folders the whole time, thanks.
 
2013-02-22 01:58:15 PM

fallingcow: Dokushin: theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.

Ah, yes, any app not Approved by Apple is automatically full of malware.   Unclean, you might call it.  Anyone not Approved by Apple is untrustworthy, and you should be  prevented from installing their software on your phone, because there is  absolutely no such thing as a phone app without malware that's not Approved by Apple.

You must live in constant fear.

The whole Apple ecosystem is about making Grandma (or any non-geek, really) feel safe buying and using software.  Many of the measures taken toward that end also make Apple money (the app store, in-app purchases, etc.) but nearly all absolutely do improve the experience for typical users.

Grandma can't get an email telling her about this awesome iOS App that she should download, JUST CLICK HERE! and end up with a virus.  If an app asks for money for something, it has to do it openly and it can't take your credit card details directly.  Grandma doesn't biatch to her friends about how awful her iPhone is because the battery runs out in two hours and the (carrier-installed) messaging apps and browsers are pieces of shiat.  And so on.

There are good reasons for most of what Apple does, but all that many tech-savvy people can see is "zomg Apple hates users and loves money!"  Yes, you can't run a webserver on iOS.  Buy something else if that's what you want to use your phone for.


Makes me wonder if, as each generation is more technically savvy than the last, if Apple's "it just works, but only the one way we defined," schtick will just fizzle out. They've got decent reliability and build quality (which is nice considering how unserviceable they are), but I can't help but feel that their continued success is due to people too used to iOS to try anything else, "iPhone" being synonymous with smartphone because of how early they boomed.

Besides, it's pretty hard to be "fresh" in general when your product name ends with a 5.
 
2013-02-22 01:58:34 PM

fallingcow: Dokushin: theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.

Ah, yes, any app not Approved by Apple is automatically full of malware.   Unclean, you might call it.  Anyone not Approved by Apple is untrustworthy, and you should be  prevented from installing their software on your phone, because there is  absolutely no such thing as a phone app without malware that's not Approved by Apple.

You must live in constant fear.

The whole Apple ecosystem is about making Grandma (or any non-geek, really) feel safe buying and using software.  Many of the measures taken toward that end also make Apple money (the app store, in-app purchases, etc.) but nearly all absolutely do improve the experience for typical users.

Grandma can't get an email telling her about this awesome iOS App that she should download, JUST CLICK HERE! and end up with a virus.  If an app asks for money for something, it has to do it openly and it can't take your credit card details directly.  Grandma doesn't biatch to her friends about how awful her iPhone is because the battery runs out in two hours and the (carrier-installed) messaging apps and browsers are pieces of shiat.  And so on.

There are good reasons for most of what Apple does, but all that many tech-savvy people can see is "zomg Apple hates users and loves money!"  Yes, you can't run a webserver on iOS.  Buy something else if that's what you want to use your phone for.


If your argument is that iOS exists to serve a market niche of people incapable of learning about "trust" then yes, I agree, there is a market for dumbed-down devices, just like on full-frame computing devices.  That's not what I hear, constantly, though -- what I hear is made-up nonsense about how Android sucks and has "two hour battery life" and so forth, whilst iOS is a panacea for the entire market.

My battery life (S3) is better than anyone I know with an iPhone 4/5, although that's almost completely dependent on usage and hence not useful as an anecdote.

Tell me, if you don't like the Apple messaging client or browser, what do you do?  I changed default browsers on my Android so I could have things like gestures and voice support.  Where's the disruptive development on the Apple platform?
 
2013-02-22 01:59:31 PM

Dokushin: fallingcow: Mikey1969: They also don't have an app drawer, your apps have to be on one of your screens

They do.

*presses and holds an app*

*drags it to another app*

*names new drawer*

People on Android (where this behavior was invented) call these  folders; the App Drawer is where you scroll through all installed apps (sans some custom behavior from your launcher).  I believe that's what Apple calls a "home screen", somewhat to my amusement.


Oh, is that what they call that?  I almost called it a folder in my description, but switched to your terminology because I thought that was what you were talking about.  Oops.

When did Android introduce folders?  iOS has had them since 4, and my Android 2.3 phone doesn't have 'em.

Personally, I hate drawer view (using the term correctly now, I think) and practically everything else about managing apps on my Android phone.  It's one more step between me and having my app where I want it.  Uninstalling especially takes probably 8-10x as long (since it takes like 4 seconds on iOS), assuming I can remember where the fark I have to go to uninstall things and don't have to fumble around for it, so I'm more reluctant to try out apps in the first place.  If I can remember the name of my app to browse for it alphabetically in the drawer, I can just search instead (on iOS).

I think it's gotten better on 4.x, but since they committed to those stupid always-on-screen menu buttons I'm not planning on upgrading to a 4.x phone, defecting for iOS instead.  I've got something very similar on my 2.3 phone in the form of touch-sensitive "buttons" under the screen glass but off the screen proper, and they're annoying as fark <i>without</i> taking up part of the screen, so I can only imagine how much they'd bug me if they were eating pixels, too.
 
kab
2013-02-22 02:00:27 PM

sp1dey73: Didn't read the article, nor do I care about "cool" (perks of getting older), but I'll share my opinion nonetheless...

I still think OSX is the best commercial operating system and I like MacBooks.  I'm still rocking a late 2008 pro thanks to a SSD I added last year.  Sure, I could get a newer faster model, but until this dies, it's good enough.  Unless OSX morphs into iOS on laptops, its eventual replacement will be another MacBook.

I have no interest in tablets, so no comment on ipads.

I'm on my second iphone (first was a 3s, now a 4s).  This market has changed a lot in the past year or two... my contract is up this year and I'm likely to switch.  I've played around with the iphone 5 and really like the camera on it (important feature to me), but iOS is incredibly stale at this point.  I'm sure there will be a 5s before my contract expires, but I'm more interested in how they overhaul iOS.  All I really would like would the ability to choose new default applications for Maps, Email, and Browser, more control over the homescreen (widgets and such), and allow me to delete unused apple apps!

Regarding Apple TV and rumored stuff... I currently use a Roku, and best I can see, the only thing (albeit nice feature) the apple TV offers is airplay or whatever it's called.  To me, all they need to do to improve this product and be a Roku killer is open it up to apps (Vudu, Amazon, PBS for example).  I sincerely hope they don't offer an actual TV or this stupid watch I keep hearing about.  Just focus on good hardware, better iterations of OSX and an iOS that actual catches up to native Android.  Sadly, I'm not sure that's the direction they are going.  Seems despite their earnings and profitability, the markets no longer see them as their darling and are souring to them.  That's an entirely other issue which is plaguing too many other public companies and stunting innovation over stock price.


Yep.  I own an iPod which, I will admit is a trooper, and handles all car audio duties.  I'm on my 2nd iPhone, which is now basically a dumb-phone on a pay as you go plan since my contract ended.  When it dies, it won't be replaced with another.

Zero interest in anything else the company makes, and I don't see that changing.
 
2013-02-22 02:03:41 PM

fallingcow: Dokushin: theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.

Ah, yes, any app not Approved by Apple is automatically full of malware.   Unclean, you might call it.  Anyone not Approved by Apple is untrustworthy, and you should be  prevented from installing their software on your phone, because there is  absolutely no such thing as a phone app without malware that's not Approved by Apple.

You must live in constant fear.

The whole Apple ecosystem is about making Grandma (or any non-geek, really) feel safe buying and using software.  Many of the measures taken toward that end also make Apple money (the app store, in-app purchases, etc.) but nearly all absolutely do improve the experience for typical users.

Grandma can't get an email telling her about this awesome iOS App that she should download, JUST CLICK HERE! and end up with a virus.  If an app asks for money for something, it has to do it openly and it can't take your credit card details directly.  Grandma doesn't biatch to her friends about how awful her iPhone is because the battery runs out in two hours and the (carrier-installed) messaging apps and browsers are pieces of shiat.  And so on.

There are good reasons for most of what Apple does, but all that many tech-savvy people can see is "zomg Apple hates users and loves money!"  Yes, you can't run a webserver on iOS.  Buy something else if that's what you want to use your phone for.


Just call me Grandma because I don't want to have to run McAfee AV on my phone.
 
2013-02-22 02:08:45 PM

fallingcow: Personally, I hate drawer view (using the term correctly now, I think) and practically everything else about managing apps on my Android phone. It's one more step between me and having my app where I want it. Uninstalling especially takes probably 8-10x as long (since it takes like 4 seconds on iOS), assuming I can remember where the fark I have to go to uninstall things and don't have to fumble around for it, so I'm more reluctant to try out apps in the first place. If I can remember the name of my app to browse for it alphabetically in the drawer, I can just search instead (on iOS).


Trying to remember, does vanilla Android not have "long-click the app icon, click uninstall" mechanism or something? Alright, let's give this a try - looking at the app icon in the list of apps, aaaand... done in 6 seconds from first tap. 1/6 of the time was the initial long-click.

Apparently there is a search option in the apps panel. Again, not sure if in vanilla.
 
2013-02-22 02:12:24 PM

Dokushin: If your argument is that iOS exists to serve a market niche of people incapable of learning about "trust" then yes, I agree, there is a market for dumbed-down devices, just like on full-frame computing devices.  That's not what I hear, constantly, though -- what I hear is made-up nonsense about how Android sucks and has "two hour battery life" and so forth, whilst iOS is a panacea for the entire market.

My battery life (S3) is better than anyone I know with an iPhone 4/5, although that's almost completely dependent on usage and hence not useful as an anecdote.

Tell me, if you don't like the Apple messaging client or browser, what do you do?  I changed default browsers on my Android so I could have things like gestures and voice support.  Where's the disruptive development on the Apple platform?


I'm sure some Android devices have good battery life.  The Nexus 7, Samsung something-or-other, and the Acer Iconia tablets at work sure as fark don't, at least if you're used to Apple devices, which you can leave on over the weekend and only lose 3-4% charge by Monday.  But I'm sure some do.  Maybe the phones are better.

My point was that Grandma (or Little Susie Tweenager) can't install some stupid-ass app that phones home constantly and forces the GPS on and does all kinds of other crap that she doesn't actually want or need it to do, then think it's her phone's fault when she has to put her phone back on the charger by noon, if she's using an iPhone.  The one-store-to-rule-them-all model and restrictions on what apps can and can't do are there for reason other than (or in addition to) "Apple hates users and loves money".
 
2013-02-22 02:12:45 PM

Mikey1969: theurge14: I really dig the freedom to download malware from all sorts of app repositories.  Also the ability to root and put Cyanogen Mod on the phone is pretty tits, you know, to replace the boring default stuff on there.  Oh, can't forget Apple's arrogance in determining that the ability to put an animation as my default wallpaper is pretty offense, I mean, who are they to tell me I can't put a wallpaper on my phone that will eat my battery in 2 hours on there?

Apple's arrogance is the belief that if THEY didn't think of it first, then you obviously don't need it.


How did you come to that conclusion?

People jailbreak their iPhones all of the time, meaning that your snark regarding dropping the ROM for CM is pretty meaningless.

I'm sure we can throw anecdotes at each other all day, but I think we can both agree the notion that iPhones are jailbroken as much as Android is a bit much.

Wallpapers don't eat your battery in 2 hours, unless you're somehow mentally retarded enough to use a live wallpaper like a game for 2 hours straight.

I think you overestimate people.

In 3 years of owning Androids and rooting them, I have never loaded Malware, people are doing it wrong if they are.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that we on Fark are not most people.  The grand majority of the consuming public out there are different.  Whether Apple or anyone in the business of making the mobile computing devices that the world are switching to now are "evil" or "arrogant" for avoiding the virus and malware mess that has plagued PCs for decades, well that's up for debate.  Since I work on the IT side of things I'm of the opinion that the less people can screw up on their own devices the better.  Let the basement geeks rant about how terrible walled gardens are, if it saves me from another holiday spent at a family member's house removing Bonzai Buddy crap from Grandma's laptop then I'll gladly take it.
 
2013-02-22 02:14:17 PM
All I have to say is that every techie person I know uses an Android phone.
Most non-techie person uses an iPhone. The idea of customization and multiple buttons is too much for them. iPhone is ridiculously easy to use I'll give them that, just as a kettle is easy to use.

Personally I just love having to choose my own widgets and able to share files.
 
2013-02-22 02:14:31 PM

fallingcow: When did Android introduce folders?  iOS has had them since 4, and my Android 2.3 phone doesn't have 'em.


iOS 4 was 2010; here's a 2008 article on Android folders:

http://www.androidauthority.com/folders-on-the-android-desktop-and-h ow -to-rename-them-466/

fallingcow: I think it's gotten better on 4.x, but since they committed to those stupid always-on-screen menu buttons I'm not planning on upgrading to a 4.x phone, defecting for iOS instead.  I've got something very similar on my 2.3 phone in the form of touch-sensitive "buttons" under the screen glass but off the screen proper, and they're annoying as fark <i>without</i> taking up part of the screen, so I can only imagine how much they'd bug me if they were eating pixels, too.


Yeah, I'm not crazy about the soft buttons.  Watching where that goes with some skepticism (although I do like capacitive buttons below the screen so I don't need as much leverage to press them).  Meh.
 
2013-02-22 02:16:47 PM
i617.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 02:16:52 PM

Endive Wombat: Fair enough. I do think that Android does have a cleaner UI


Refreshing talk, thank you stranger.
 
2013-02-22 02:19:48 PM
ProfessorOhki: Trying to remember, does vanilla Android not have "long-click the app icon, click uninstall" mechanism or something

I think in older versions the stock launcher didn't, but they have it now.

// my stock nooklear (hacked nook color) didn't have it, but then I switched to ADW launcher, problem solved.
 
2013-02-22 02:20:08 PM

fallingcow: I'm sure some Android devices have good battery life.  The Nexus 7, Samsung something-or-other, and the Acer Iconia tablets at work sure as fark don't, at least if you're used to Apple devices, which you can leave on over the weekend and only lose 3-4% charge by Monday.  But I'm sure some do.  Maybe the phones are better.

My point was that Grandma (or Little Susie Tweenager) can't install some stupid-ass app that phones home constantly and forces the GPS on and does all kinds of other crap that she doesn't actually want or need it to do, then think it's her phone's fault when she has to put her phone back on the charger by noon, if she's using an iPhone.  The one-store-to-rule-them-all model and restrictions on what apps can and can't do are there for reason other than (or in addition to) "Apple hates users and loves money".


You're on target here; the battery issues on Android phones come from the wide model selection (from fifty bucks to six hundred) and from the wide-open multitasking model, which lets poorly-written apps continue to run in the background, doing all kinds of sundry things.  A little more user awareness is needed to get good battery life out of Android devices, which is a shame -- but I (and many Android users, I think) wouldn't have it any other way, since any other option reduces the potential uses of the phone (by restricting apps or multitasking).  Meh, it's a different product.

"iOS means you do whatever Apple says and just want to look cool" is roughly equal to "Android devices have malware and two hour battery", is what I'm saying.
 
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