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(The Guardian Express)   This could have a big impact on the US and Mexico   (guardianlv.com) divider line 34
    More: News, Mexico, Guatemala, square kilometres, armored trucks, Politics of Mexico, Sinaloa Cartel, Joaquin Guzman Loera  
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35974 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 4:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-22 04:25:28 AM  
5 votes:

TheJoe03: Isn't it great how none of the politicians ever really focus on how much of a clusterfark it is in Mexico and how much that affects us. The entire war down there is based not only on our drug use but our drug policy, but no one in Washington is talking about doing anything about it. Hard to talk about immigration from Latin America (which is what the whole immigration debate seems to be about for these guys, you hear little about Asian or European immigration) without talking about what is actually going on in Mexico and Latin America and how some of our policies have created them and how to change it.


capitalresearchinstitute.org
2013-02-22 04:15:17 AM  
5 votes:
Isn't it great how none of the politicians ever really focus on how much of a clusterfark it is in Mexico and how much that affects us. The entire war down there is based not only on our drug use but our drug policy, but no one in Washington is talking about doing anything about it. Hard to talk about immigration from Latin America (which is what the whole immigration debate seems to be about for these guys, you hear little about Asian or European immigration) without talking about what is actually going on in Mexico and Latin America and how some of our policies have created them and how to change it.
2013-02-22 04:04:12 AM  
5 votes:
I see that it is now acceptable to publish articles after they've been put through Google Translate.
2013-02-22 04:19:56 AM  
4 votes:
If only there was a way to eliminate the market for these violent drug dealers and simultaneously make money to treat addiction.
2013-02-22 04:09:44 AM  
3 votes:
And nothing of value was lost.
2013-02-22 09:32:26 AM  
2 votes:

The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?


Meow said the dog is the only one who could have. The entire article was that way.
2013-02-22 08:43:27 AM  
2 votes:
The world's most powerful drug trafficker, Mexican billionaire Joaquin El Chapo Guzman Loera, was designated by The Chicago Crime Commission and the DEA as Chicago's Public Enemy #1, a title held by Al Capone at the height of Prohibition in the 1930s. In making the announcement on Valentines' Day, Art Bilek, the commission's executive vice president, said that "What Al Capone was to beer and whiskey, Guzman is to narcotics."

Amazing how these idiots can actually draw a parallel between this guy and Al Capone, yet completely fail to realize that the war they're fighting is every bit as futile as was Prohibition.

Also underscoring their stupidity is the fact that beer and whiskey (probably their government-approval-stamped intoxicants of choice) get named, yet everything else gets lumped under the term "narcotics," irrespective of each substance's narcotic properties.
2013-02-22 05:54:16 AM  
2 votes:

SquiggsIN: BronyMedic: SquiggsIN: Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.

The medical people have been on board with it for decades, along with the police. You have to contend with the feds and the US Senate to change the laws. That's where the problem lies.

This might be one of the most ignorant things I've seen in quite a while.  Especially the prison system, has zero interest or inclination in reforming a system that is requires the continuous building, upgrading, financing, and expansion of the prison system.  It would be bad for business.  Just like it would be bad for business for each other group I listed.


Actually, I think this is one of the most ignorant things I've heard in a while on the topic, mixed with a healthy dose of conspiracy. The Medical industry has nothing to gain from the continued criminalization of drugs. In fact, they would gain far more from what they have been pushing for decades, and that's the treatment of drug addicts as medical patients rather than criminals. Look at the countries in Europe which do just this for a prime example. Using Washington State as an example, the Seattle Police Department were one of the most vocal groups for the decriminalization of marijuana in the state. The fact of the matter is that the faults lie with the Federal Government, as any state who goes against the will of the Feds runs the risk of having Department of Justice funding pulled from them for doing so. It's the same tactic that the DOT and NHTSA used to get every state on board with the 0.08 BAC limit.

Considering only a fraction of the prison system is "for profit", that argument doesn't fly. Expansion of the federal prison system costs far more capital that could be used for other Government projects.

In reality, what you have are powerful religious right groups and shill lobbyist organizations who continue to pressure federal lawmakers, misinform their constituents, and mislead the American public.
2013-02-22 05:45:18 AM  
2 votes:

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: The zetas probably did it, and will probably fill the vacuum.  Those dudes are probably the scariest mofos on the planet, other than maybe Seal Team 6.

Ex special forces, ex Gulf Cartel security force, now the most technologically advanced and brutal cartel in Central America.  Chances are, the new government made a pact with the Zetas to take out the Sinaloa and Gulf, maybe give them their Guatemalan territory to get them focused out of Mexico.

Scary stuff, wouldn't want to live anywhere near these dudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

/end the war on drugs


But remember folks, the REAL terrorists are the guys in Pakistan who couldn't even light a shoe on fire properly.
2013-02-22 05:34:46 AM  
2 votes:

SquiggsIN: Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.


The medical people have been on board with it for decades, along with the police. You have to contend with the feds and the US Senate to change the laws. That's where the problem lies.

cc_rider: Yo, I wasn't glorifying the asshat, Just noting that our drug policy and our interventions in Central and South America have created monsters like El Chapo and the like.

Remember Manuel Noriega?


No, I didn't think you were. I was just pointing out that legalization is not going to suddenly end the violence down there. In reality, it'll get far worse before it gets better. Each Cartel has carved out it's own warlord's serfdom down there. They have basic military training, and the equipment and weapons to take on most of the armies of their respective nations in even a token form. Right now, they're held in relative check because of the amount of profit to be had. Once that profit is gone, they're going to seek out ways to hold on to the power they had, and the most obvious targets are the Governments and localities of narco-terrorism ridden second and third world countries. Columbia has been seeing this for decades. Like your example, Panama too.
2013-02-22 05:02:39 AM  
2 votes:

cc_rider: I doubt it will have much effect on either of us. Someone will step in to fill his place, and the blow will be still be flowing over the borders. We'll just keep filling up up our prisons while Mexico fills up it's graveyards with headless corpses. El Chapo, we hardly knew ye.

Yay, the War on Drugs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkk6fH2u0Y


While the war on drugs needs to end and the US needs to take a common sense and evidence based approach to drug control and treatment, I find it difficult to believe that people like El Chapo here would be the kind of people you'd like to take to a fancy dinner party without narco-trafficing.

These people are terrorists in the very definition of the word. The idea that the cartels are suddenly going to roll over and die is silly, especially since they won't give up the power they've accumulated through the years without a bloody fight.
2013-02-22 04:23:03 AM  
2 votes:

SquiggsIN: Someone else will step into the void created by this power vacuum.


i.imgur.com
2013-02-22 04:18:21 AM  
2 votes:

SquiggsIN: This will have zero affect on the US or Mexico.  Someone else will step into the void created by this power vacuum.  (assuming it's true)


Those situations aren't usually peaceful.
2013-02-22 04:13:58 AM  
2 votes:
Prohibition is stupid.
2013-02-22 04:11:05 AM  
2 votes:

WhyteRaven74: violentsalvation: I doubt the level of violence in Mexico will be affected, the quantity, purity and price of drugs reaching the US certainly won't be.

Short term, probably right. Thing is, if he is dead, there's no a major power vacuum and it's not going to be filled peacefully. What's more any time spent in skirmishes trying to take his place is time not spent minding shop, which makes the odds of shipments and people being caught quite a lot greater.


If this was DopeWars I'd buy all the coke I could fit into my trenchcoat.
2013-02-22 04:06:56 AM  
2 votes:

violentsalvation: I doubt the level of violence in Mexico will be affected, the quantity, purity and price of drugs reaching the US certainly won't be.


Short term, probably right. Thing is, if he is dead, there's no a major power vacuum and it's not going to be filled peacefully. What's more any time spent in skirmishes trying to take his place is time not spent minding shop, which makes the odds of shipments and people being caught quite a lot greater.
2013-02-22 03:17:43 AM  
2 votes:
"Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?
2013-02-22 12:05:55 PM  
1 votes:

TheJoe03: Isn't it great how none of the politicians ever really focus on how much of a clusterfark it is in Mexico and how much that affects us. The entire war down there is based not only on our drug use but our drug policy, but no one in Washington is talking about doing anything about it. Hard to talk about immigration from Latin America (which is what the whole immigration debate seems to be about for these guys, you hear little about Asian or European immigration) without talking about what is actually going on in Mexico and Latin America and how some of our policies have created them and how to change it.


THIS.
2013-02-22 09:13:39 AM  
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: the line between conspiracy and fact is usually a time line. Our government has been involved in illegal narco-trafficking for decades. There are plenty of government hands interested in maintaining the current conditions. Despite factions in each of the original groups i mentioned supporting reform, a large number of people depend on funding (as you said federal dollars) for their continued existence. The vast majority of police departments make a windfall on property and cash seizures from drug busts. Many of these departments have expanded significantly with these added funds and would be forced to make drastic cuts in order to operate without them. Pharmacy and Medical industries, as well, stand to lose plenty if people turn to a cheap plant like cannabis instead of relying on traditional medicine for the plethora of conditions now proven to be treatable with cannabis therapy. Back to the prisons, since most are now contracted out by states and municipalities to private for-profit corporations, their business model requires the continued incarceration of drug users.

Yes, there are groups within each of my "lobbyist categories" which support reforming the system but, it's idiotic to say that those groups are a majority across this country. Your example was the Seattle police... ask the NYPD about how they feel about the issue.


I agree with you on every part but the bolded part.  To say this means you must lack understanding of the pharmaceutical industry (no disrespect).  Pharmaceutical companies make their money because of change and being the first to adapt to change.  It is a very highly competitive market because patents on their drugs expire which usually only gives a company anywhere between 5 and 10 years to recoup costs of research and development of the drugs.  Hopefully they can cover those costs before the patent runs out and then start making a profit.  Drug patents last for 20 years, however the patent is filed very early in the development stage, prior to initial clinical trials.  These trials can take a very long time, and even after the trials, it then has to go up for review to the FDA.  Once their patent wears off, they lose their monopoly and competition drives the price down.  It behooves pharmaceutical companies to be the fastest to adapt to change in order to make money.  They need change.  Contrary to popular belief, it is much better suited to the pharmaceutical company to develop a cure and corner the market for a decade, than to just keep producing the same treatments.  If Marijuana and other illegal drugs are so medically viable, most drug companies will be chomping at the bit for the opportunity to be the first ones to corner the market.
2013-02-22 08:19:03 AM  
1 votes:
One pendejo dies, another takes his place.
2013-02-22 06:26:28 AM  
1 votes:

OhioUGrad: The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?

Thank God I'm not the only one who was like WTF.....I was starting to feel racist there

/is it common to refer to all Hispanics by 3 names or more?


Usually they have four: first, middle, father's last name, mother's maiden name
2013-02-22 06:23:07 AM  
1 votes:
I always expect disappointment when NEWS is combined with a headline without an indication of the story. I was thinking immigration news or some international incident.

Unless Mexican drug lords implode and create gravity wells when they die, this seems pretty unremarkable.
2013-02-22 04:35:12 AM  
1 votes:

The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?


Oh, thanktheeverlovingchristforthat, I really thought I may have been having a stroke whilst attempting that article. It was written like twins that finish each others sentences, but they slipped a roofie in the cute twin's drink.
2013-02-22 04:34:40 AM  
1 votes:

Wittenberg Dropout: Another dude will step up and keep the drugs coming.


Problem is it's almost certainly going to be two or three dudes, maybe more, trying to step up. And that's not something that will be resolved peacefully. Now there is always the chance they'll end up taking each other out and their underlings will be going at each other to the degree the actual enterprise they want falls completely apart.
2013-02-22 04:32:04 AM  
1 votes:
Was that article Google translated from the Spanish? Jesús, people. Write your own articles.
2013-02-22 04:24:24 AM  
1 votes:
Nature abhors a vacuum.

If confirmed, its probably worse for average Mexicans in the short-term as underlings and rivals via for control.
2013-02-22 04:21:12 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: BronyMedic: And nothing of value was lost.

But now coke's gonna be slightly higher in price for awhile.

Good thing I have a vending machine and a 7-11 near my house. Time to make a run on supplies.


I'm too busy anticipating Japanese pony merch in the UFO catchers. I'm saving up like 10,000 yen in 100s for an epic meal time style run at all the game centers in Shinjuku anyway. Ponies will just make it easier to pick which machines will have the best stuff. If I can get a Mameshiba pillow, some Rillakuma flatware (to make a set with this bowl I got from Dominoes on accident), and some kind of uber-Japanese pony stuff I can once again retire from the crazy back alleys and smokey gambling dens that are the UFO catcher corner.
2013-02-22 04:21:01 AM  
1 votes:
I don't think this will have much of an impact. Someone else will just take his place, or at most his network will just break up into smaller bits without him at the helm.
As long as there's demand for a valuable commodity (and tax free!) someone will attempt to supply it, regardless of the risk.

/Also, I second the argument this was a rip-off of a Spanish article smashed through Google Translate. Nice to see the need to be first to break the story is more important than actually writing it properly.
2013-02-22 04:16:56 AM  
1 votes:

The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?


Thank God I'm not the only one who was like WTF.....I was starting to feel racist there

/is it common to refer to all Hispanics by 3 names or more?
2013-02-22 04:16:03 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: BronyMedic: And nothing of value was lost.

But now coke's gonna be slightly higher in price for awhile.

Good thing I have a vending machine and a 7-11 near my house. Time to make a run on supplies.


Be sure to pop those colas in your Home Vending Machine and make them Ice Cold. They restore an additional 12 HP that way.
2013-02-22 04:12:42 AM  
1 votes:
No, it wont. Another dude will step up and keep the drugs coming.
Ni
2013-02-22 04:09:09 AM  
1 votes:
Good time to invest in blow if you live in chicago.
2013-02-22 04:02:32 AM  
1 votes:

The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?


Someone for whom English isn't their first language... or second... possibly not even third.
2013-02-22 03:30:55 AM  
1 votes:
I doubt the level of violence in Mexico will be affected, the quantity, purity and price of drugs reaching the US certainly won't be.
 
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