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(The Guardian Express)   This could have a big impact on the US and Mexico   (guardianlv.com) divider line 136
    More: News, Mexico, Guatemala, square kilometres, armored trucks, Politics of Mexico, Sinaloa Cartel, Joaquin Guzman Loera  
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35961 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 4:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 05:08:57 AM

BronyMedic: cc_rider: I doubt it will have much effect on either of us. Someone will step in to fill his place, and the blow will be still be flowing over the borders. We'll just keep filling up up our prisons while Mexico fills up it's graveyards with headless corpses. El Chapo, we hardly knew ye.

Yay, the War on Drugs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkk6fH2u0Y

While the war on drugs needs to end and the US needs to take a common sense and evidence based approach to drug control and treatment, I find it difficult to believe that people like El Chapo here would be the kind of people you'd like to take to a fancy dinner party without narco-trafficing.

These people are terrorists in the very definition of the word. The idea that the cartels are suddenly going to roll over and die is silly, especially since they won't give up the power they've accumulated through the years without a bloody fight.


Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.
 
2013-02-22 05:09:51 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Ed Grubermann: Then why bring it up?

Why ask me why I brought it up?


Non sequitur statement begs qualifying question, that's why.

Comment in thread about twins: "I heard there was an incest rape video, but I'm totally not interested in seeing it, nor searching for it."

Legitimate question that is begged: "WTF, dude, why even bring that shiat up, then?"

Clearer? I doubt it.
 
2013-02-22 05:16:34 AM

BronyMedic: cc_rider: I doubt it will have much effect on either of us. Someone will step in to fill his place, and the blow will be still be flowing over the borders. We'll just keep filling up up our prisons while Mexico fills up it's graveyards with headless corpses. El Chapo, we hardly knew ye.

Yay, the War on Drugs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkk6fH2u0Y

While the war on drugs needs to end and the US needs to take a common sense and evidence based approach to drug control and treatment, I find it difficult to believe that people like El Chapo here would be the kind of people you'd like to take to a fancy dinner party without narco-trafficing.

These people are terrorists in the very definition of the word. The idea that the cartels are suddenly going to roll over and die is silly, especially since they won't give up the power they've accumulated through the years without a bloody fight.


Yo, I wasn't glorifying the asshat, Just noting that our drug policy and our interventions in Central and South America have created monsters like El Chapo and the like.

Remember Manuel Noriega?

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1933053_1 93 3052_1933051,00.html
 
2013-02-22 05:19:49 AM
I'm still here El Guapo!
 
2013-02-22 05:31:41 AM
And here I was thinking we had another asteroid story.  Then I thought that the US had decided to end their War on Drugs with an Executive Order legalizing all "soft" drugs - putting control of substance and taxation in the hand of the US Americans (as opposed to the non-US Americans).

So what, do we expect Guzman's replacement to be kinder, gentler, softer? Is that what we got in North Korea?  And, that's assuming the guy's dead.
 
2013-02-22 05:34:46 AM

SquiggsIN: Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.


The medical people have been on board with it for decades, along with the police. You have to contend with the feds and the US Senate to change the laws. That's where the problem lies.

cc_rider: Yo, I wasn't glorifying the asshat, Just noting that our drug policy and our interventions in Central and South America have created monsters like El Chapo and the like.

Remember Manuel Noriega?


No, I didn't think you were. I was just pointing out that legalization is not going to suddenly end the violence down there. In reality, it'll get far worse before it gets better. Each Cartel has carved out it's own warlord's serfdom down there. They have basic military training, and the equipment and weapons to take on most of the armies of their respective nations in even a token form. Right now, they're held in relative check because of the amount of profit to be had. Once that profit is gone, they're going to seek out ways to hold on to the power they had, and the most obvious targets are the Governments and localities of narco-terrorism ridden second and third world countries. Columbia has been seeing this for decades. Like your example, Panama too.
 
2013-02-22 05:36:47 AM
The zetas probably did it, and will probably fill the vacuum.  Those dudes are probably the scariest mofos on the planet, other than maybe Seal Team 6.

Ex special forces, ex Gulf Cartel security force, now the most technologically advanced and brutal cartel in Central America.  Chances are, the new government made a pact with the Zetas to take out the Sinaloa and Gulf, maybe give them their Guatemalan territory to get them focused out of Mexico.

Scary stuff, wouldn't want to live anywhere near these dudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

/end the war on drugs
 
2013-02-22 05:40:49 AM
... or, as resident of Arizona's derpest metropolitan centre, I will confirm: nope, not at all.
 
2013-02-22 05:45:18 AM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: The zetas probably did it, and will probably fill the vacuum.  Those dudes are probably the scariest mofos on the planet, other than maybe Seal Team 6.

Ex special forces, ex Gulf Cartel security force, now the most technologically advanced and brutal cartel in Central America.  Chances are, the new government made a pact with the Zetas to take out the Sinaloa and Gulf, maybe give them their Guatemalan territory to get them focused out of Mexico.

Scary stuff, wouldn't want to live anywhere near these dudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

/end the war on drugs


But remember folks, the REAL terrorists are the guys in Pakistan who couldn't even light a shoe on fire properly.
 
2013-02-22 05:47:19 AM

SquiggsIN: This will have zero affect on the US or Mexico.  Someone else will step into the void created by this power vacuum.  (assuming it's true)


Basically, this.
 
2013-02-22 05:48:22 AM

BronyMedic: Ayn Rand's Social Worker: The zetas probably did it, and will probably fill the vacuum.  Those dudes are probably the scariest mofos on the planet, other than maybe Seal Team 6.

Ex special forces, ex Gulf Cartel security force, now the most technologically advanced and brutal cartel in Central America.  Chances are, the new government made a pact with the Zetas to take out the Sinaloa and Gulf, maybe give them their Guatemalan territory to get them focused out of Mexico.

Scary stuff, wouldn't want to live anywhere near these dudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

/end the war on drugs

But remember folks, the REAL terrorists are the guys in Pakistan who couldn't even light a shoe on fire properly.


Shoe fires would register on the drone IR and be rightfully exterminated.

Heh,
 
2013-02-22 05:48:28 AM

BronyMedic: SquiggsIN: Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.

The medical people have been on board with it for decades, along with the police. You have to contend with the feds and the US Senate to change the laws. That's where the problem lies.


This might be one of the most ignorant things I've seen in quite a while.  Especially the prison system, has zero interest or inclination in reforming a system that is requires the continuous building, upgrading, financing, and expansion of the prison system.  It would be bad for business.  Just like it would be bad for business for each other group I listed.
 
2013-02-22 05:51:39 AM
So is it over?
Did we win the drug war?!
 
2013-02-22 05:54:16 AM

SquiggsIN: BronyMedic: SquiggsIN: Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.

The medical people have been on board with it for decades, along with the police. You have to contend with the feds and the US Senate to change the laws. That's where the problem lies.

This might be one of the most ignorant things I've seen in quite a while.  Especially the prison system, has zero interest or inclination in reforming a system that is requires the continuous building, upgrading, financing, and expansion of the prison system.  It would be bad for business.  Just like it would be bad for business for each other group I listed.


Actually, I think this is one of the most ignorant things I've heard in a while on the topic, mixed with a healthy dose of conspiracy. The Medical industry has nothing to gain from the continued criminalization of drugs. In fact, they would gain far more from what they have been pushing for decades, and that's the treatment of drug addicts as medical patients rather than criminals. Look at the countries in Europe which do just this for a prime example. Using Washington State as an example, the Seattle Police Department were one of the most vocal groups for the decriminalization of marijuana in the state. The fact of the matter is that the faults lie with the Federal Government, as any state who goes against the will of the Feds runs the risk of having Department of Justice funding pulled from them for doing so. It's the same tactic that the DOT and NHTSA used to get every state on board with the 0.08 BAC limit.

Considering only a fraction of the prison system is "for profit", that argument doesn't fly. Expansion of the federal prison system costs far more capital that could be used for other Government projects.

In reality, what you have are powerful religious right groups and shill lobbyist organizations who continue to pressure federal lawmakers, misinform their constituents, and mislead the American public.
 
2013-02-22 05:54:36 AM

way south: So is it over?
Did we win the drug war?!


If "coming in second in terms of robbing the American people" counts as winning, then yes. You've won, second only to the healthcare "system".
 
2013-02-22 06:01:10 AM
Miss Mexico 2013
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-22 06:03:20 AM

BronyMedic: SquiggsIN: BronyMedic: SquiggsIN: Good luck getting the medical, pharmaceutical, police, and prison lobbyists to support that.

The medical people have been on board with it for decades, along with the police. You have to contend with the feds and the US Senate to change the laws. That's where the problem lies.

This might be one of the most ignorant things I've seen in quite a while.  Especially the prison system, has zero interest or inclination in reforming a system that is requires the continuous building, upgrading, financing, and expansion of the prison system.  It would be bad for business.  Just like it would be bad for business for each other group I listed.

Actually, I think this is one of the most ignorant things I've heard in a while on the topic, mixed with a healthy dose of conspiracy. The Medical industry has nothing to gain from the continued criminalization of drugs. In fact, they would gain far more from what they have been pushing for decades, and that's the treatment of drug addicts as medical patients rather than criminals. Look at the countries in Europe which do just this for a prime example. Using Washington State as an example, the Seattle Police Department were one of the most vocal groups for the decriminalization of marijuana in the state. The fact of the matter is that the faults lie with the Federal Government, as any state who goes against the will of the Feds runs the risk of having Department of Justice funding pulled from them for doing so. It's the same tactic that the DOT and NHTSA used to get every state on board with the 0.08 BAC limit.

Considering only a fraction of the prison system is "for profit", that argument doesn't fly. Expansion of the federal prison system costs far more capital that could be used for other Government projects.

In reality, what you have are powerful religious right groups and shill lobbyist organizations who continue to pressure federal lawmakers, misinform their constituents, and mislead the Americ ...


the line between conspiracy and fact is usually a time line.  Our government has been involved in illegal narco-trafficking for decades.  There are plenty of government hands interested in maintaining the current conditions.  Despite factions in each of the original groups i mentioned supporting reform, a large number of people depend on funding (as you said federal dollars) for their continued existence.  The vast majority of police departments make a windfall on property and cash seizures from drug busts.  Many of these departments have expanded significantly with these added funds and would be forced to make drastic cuts in order to operate without them.  Pharmacy and Medical industries, as well, stand to lose plenty if people turn to a cheap plant like cannabis instead of relying on traditional medicine for the plethora of conditions now proven to be treatable with cannabis therapy.  Back to the prisons, since most are now contracted out by states and municipalities to private for-profit corporations, their business model requires the continued incarceration of drug users.

Yes, there are groups within each of my "lobbyist categories" which support reforming the system but, it's idiotic to say that those groups are a majority across this country.  Your example was the Seattle police... ask the NYPD about how they feel about the issue.
 
2013-02-22 06:05:06 AM
I don't do any drugs and I'm trying to project how this goofball's death will affect me in the coming year.
It's Breaking News so I must be missing something.
 
2013-02-22 06:22:03 AM
jbinghamoc.files.wordpress.com
RIP El Guapo
 
2013-02-22 06:23:07 AM
I always expect disappointment when NEWS is combined with a headline without an indication of the story. I was thinking immigration news or some international incident.

Unless Mexican drug lords implode and create gravity wells when they die, this seems pretty unremarkable.
 
2013-02-22 06:26:28 AM

OhioUGrad: The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?

Thank God I'm not the only one who was like WTF.....I was starting to feel racist there

/is it common to refer to all Hispanics by 3 names or more?


Usually they have four: first, middle, father's last name, mother's maiden name
 
2013-02-22 06:27:21 AM

BronyMedic: cc_rider: I doubt it will have much effect on either of us. Someone will step in to fill his place, and the blow will be still be flowing over the borders. We'll just keep filling up up our prisons while Mexico fills up it's graveyards with headless corpses. El Chapo, we hardly knew ye.

Yay, the War on Drugs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkk6fH2u0Y

While the war on drugs needs to end and the US needs to take a common sense and evidence based approach to drug control and treatment, I find it difficult to believe that people like El Chapo here would be the kind of people you'd like to take to a fancy dinner party without narco-trafficing.

These people are terrorists in the very definition of the word. The idea that the cartels are suddenly going to roll over and die is silly, especially since they won't give up the power they've accumulated through the years without a bloody fight.


They're not terrorists.
They're criminals. Yes, they do achieve status by using fear but that just makes them good at their job.

Terrorism requires more than that. It's also important to note that the US defines terrorism in a variety of ways depending on which department you get your definition from.
 
2013-02-22 06:34:07 AM

awshat: And here I was thinking we had another asteroid story.  Then I thought that the US had decided to end their War on Drugs with an Executive Order legalizing all "soft" drugs - putting control of substance and taxation in the hand of the US Americans (as opposed to the non-US Americans).

So what, do we expect Guzman's replacement to be kinder, gentler, softer? Is that what we got in North Korea?  And, that's assuming the guy's dead.


You've hit on my skepticism.

Like any good drug lord - isn't Guzman more legend than man? Even his description takes on a mythic quality when you ask people: there are sightings and speculation.

If I recall correctly - there were some journalists speculating that Guzman doesn't exist. He's like a boogeyman. Guzman was likely created by one or more top members of the cartel.
 
2013-02-22 06:36:29 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: OhioUGrad: The Ottoman: "Hours later, a clash registered on a site as Hamlet said Valentine, San Francisco, El Peten, Guatemala international alarms sounded, the one confirmed four dead, two of them aboard a luxury armored truck in which lies the corpse of a person with a physical resemblance to El Chapo Guzman. "

Who the hell wrote this?

Thank God I'm not the only one who was like WTF.....I was starting to feel racist there

/is it common to refer to all Hispanics by 3 names or more?

Usually they have four: first, middle, father's last name, mother's maiden name


Well that is quite headache inducing
 
2013-02-22 06:37:23 AM
Does he have a plethora of piñatas?
 
2013-02-22 06:44:42 AM

Bontesla: awshat: And here I was thinking we had another asteroid story.  Then I thought that the US had decided to end their War on Drugs with an Executive Order legalizing all "soft" drugs - putting control of substance and taxation in the hand of the US Americans (as opposed to the non-US Americans).

So what, do we expect Guzman's replacement to be kinder, gentler, softer? Is that what we got in North Korea?  And, that's assuming the guy's dead.

You've hit on my skepticism.

Like any good drug lord - isn't Guzman more legend than man? Even his description takes on a mythic quality when you ask people: there are sightings and speculation.

If I recall correctly - there were some journalists speculating that Guzman doesn't exist. He's like a boogeyman. Guzman was likely created by one or more top members of the cartel.


Goddammitsomuch. Drug trafficker.
Apparently I talk religion and drugs and little too much for SwiftKey to predict my speech patterns.
 
2013-02-22 06:44:59 AM

way south: So is it over?
Did we win the drug war?!


Yep. Drugs for everybody.
 
2013-02-22 06:48:44 AM
as if there's not a #2 waiting in the wings.
 
2013-02-22 06:52:19 AM
Mission Accomplished
 
2013-02-22 06:52:25 AM

Deep Contact: Miss Mexico 2013
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 720x960]


Now this is something I could really get behind.
 
2013-02-22 06:55:52 AM

Bontesla: awshat: And here I was thinking we had another asteroid story.  Then I thought that the US had decided to end their War on Drugs with an Executive Order legalizing all "soft" drugs - putting control of substance and taxation in the hand of the US Americans (as opposed to the non-US Americans).

So what, do we expect Guzman's replacement to be kinder, gentler, softer? Is that what we got in North Korea?  And, that's assuming the guy's dead.

You've hit on my skepticism.

Like any good drug lord - isn't Guzman more legend than man? Even his description takes on a mythic quality when you ask people: there are sightings and speculation.

If I recall correctly - there were some journalists speculating that Guzman doesn't exist. He's like a boogeyman. Guzman was likely created by one or more top members of the cartel.


Keyzer Soze is somewhere nodding in agreement.
 
2013-02-22 07:04:59 AM
El Chapo Guzmán was captured in Guatemala in 2001, but escaped the prison of "maximum security" Puente Grande, hidden in a shopping laundry two years later.

I'm some shirts.
 
2013-02-22 07:11:46 AM

Dear Jerk: El Chapo Guzmán was captured in Guatemala in 2001, but escaped the prison of "maximum security" Puente Grande, hidden in a shopping laundry two years later.

I'm some shirts.


Seems legit.
 
2013-02-22 07:16:00 AM

Deep Contact: Miss Mexico 2013
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 720x960]


You know, I generally like lightening the mood with bewbs, but that just reminds me of this story.
And that story makes me kinda sad.
 
2013-02-22 07:44:36 AM

skinink: I see that it is now acceptable to publish articles after they've been put through Google Translate.


Via three different languages.  Twice.
 
2013-02-22 07:45:28 AM

phamwaa: skinink: I see that it is now acceptable to publish articles after they've been put through Google Translate.

Via three different languages.  Twice.


Per the Chicano Manual of Style.
 
2013-02-22 07:56:22 AM

Gawdzila: Deep Contact: Miss Mexico 2013
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 720x960]

You know, I generally like lightening the mood with bewbs, but that just reminds me of this story.
And that story makes me kinda sad.



Yeah, that is sad and such a waste.
 
2013-02-22 08:19:03 AM
One pendejo dies, another takes his place.
 
2013-02-22 08:27:26 AM

zixr: R.I.P El Chapo


R I P El Guapo

www.american-buddha.com
 
2013-02-22 08:42:25 AM
Good.  This makes me wish there was a Hell.
 
2013-02-22 08:43:27 AM
The world's most powerful drug trafficker, Mexican billionaire Joaquin El Chapo Guzman Loera, was designated by The Chicago Crime Commission and the DEA as Chicago's Public Enemy #1, a title held by Al Capone at the height of Prohibition in the 1930s. In making the announcement on Valentines' Day, Art Bilek, the commission's executive vice president, said that "What Al Capone was to beer and whiskey, Guzman is to narcotics."

Amazing how these idiots can actually draw a parallel between this guy and Al Capone, yet completely fail to realize that the war they're fighting is every bit as futile as was Prohibition.

Also underscoring their stupidity is the fact that beer and whiskey (probably their government-approval-stamped intoxicants of choice) get named, yet everything else gets lumped under the term "narcotics," irrespective of each substance's narcotic properties.
 
2013-02-22 08:53:32 AM
Soooo, if this pans out, does that mean Wikileaks had a role in this man's death by releasing otherwise private and confidential information?

/also, power vacuum
//those are exciting
 
2013-02-22 08:55:33 AM

destrip: The world's most powerful drug trafficker, Mexican billionaire Joaquin El Chapo Guzman Loera, was designated by The Chicago Crime Commission and the DEA as Chicago's Public Enemy #1, a title held by Al Capone at the height of Prohibition in the 1930s. In making the announcement on Valentines' Day, Art Bilek, the commission's executive vice president, said that "What Al Capone was to beer and whiskey, Guzman is to narcotics."

Amazing how these idiots can actually draw a parallel between this guy and Al Capone, yet completely fail to realize that the war they're fighting is every bit as futile as was Prohibition.

Also underscoring their stupidity is the fact that beer and whiskey (probably their government-approval-stamped intoxicants of choice) get named, yet everything else gets lumped under the term "narcotics," irrespective of each substance's narcotic properties.


this is the same system that says cannabis is more harmful than cocaine.
 
2013-02-22 08:57:11 AM
Aww... i was hoping this was anther meteor thread.
 
2013-02-22 08:59:27 AM

DeathByGeekSquad: Soooo, if this pans out, does that mean Wikileaks had a role in this man's death by releasing otherwise private and confidential information?

/also, power vacuum
//those are exciting


So do we get to see a cartel versus wikileaks war now?  That'd be over quickly.
 
2013-02-22 08:59:33 AM
I thought Brad Davis died years ago of the AIDSes.
 
2013-02-22 09:10:39 AM
Could have a big impact if it were true. Bunch of shiat.
 
2013-02-22 09:12:55 AM

SquiggsIN: Pharmacy and Medical industries, as well, stand to lose plenty if people turn to a cheap plant like cannabis instead of relying on traditional medicine for the plethora of conditions now proven to be treatable with cannabis therapy.


I like the occassional toke as much as the next guy, but it's beyond foolish to think legal MJ would have any effect on that. There's some specific types of pain that may be lessened with weed, and it's great for those people too sick to eat. "Plethora of conditions proven treatable?" Hardly. Those are just sick people who like to get high. No one is going to be throwing away their BP meds the day MJ is legal. Nor their lortab, cause that shiat is great.
 
2013-02-22 09:13:20 AM
If only this kid-farking, brown people enslaving, government corrupting douchewad had been captured 12 years ago...  Think of all of the trouble that could have been avoided ;)
 
2013-02-22 09:13:39 AM

SquiggsIN: the line between conspiracy and fact is usually a time line. Our government has been involved in illegal narco-trafficking for decades. There are plenty of government hands interested in maintaining the current conditions. Despite factions in each of the original groups i mentioned supporting reform, a large number of people depend on funding (as you said federal dollars) for their continued existence. The vast majority of police departments make a windfall on property and cash seizures from drug busts. Many of these departments have expanded significantly with these added funds and would be forced to make drastic cuts in order to operate without them. Pharmacy and Medical industries, as well, stand to lose plenty if people turn to a cheap plant like cannabis instead of relying on traditional medicine for the plethora of conditions now proven to be treatable with cannabis therapy. Back to the prisons, since most are now contracted out by states and municipalities to private for-profit corporations, their business model requires the continued incarceration of drug users.

Yes, there are groups within each of my "lobbyist categories" which support reforming the system but, it's idiotic to say that those groups are a majority across this country. Your example was the Seattle police... ask the NYPD about how they feel about the issue.


I agree with you on every part but the bolded part.  To say this means you must lack understanding of the pharmaceutical industry (no disrespect).  Pharmaceutical companies make their money because of change and being the first to adapt to change.  It is a very highly competitive market because patents on their drugs expire which usually only gives a company anywhere between 5 and 10 years to recoup costs of research and development of the drugs.  Hopefully they can cover those costs before the patent runs out and then start making a profit.  Drug patents last for 20 years, however the patent is filed very early in the development stage, prior to initial clinical trials.  These trials can take a very long time, and even after the trials, it then has to go up for review to the FDA.  Once their patent wears off, they lose their monopoly and competition drives the price down.  It behooves pharmaceutical companies to be the fastest to adapt to change in order to make money.  They need change.  Contrary to popular belief, it is much better suited to the pharmaceutical company to develop a cure and corner the market for a decade, than to just keep producing the same treatments.  If Marijuana and other illegal drugs are so medically viable, most drug companies will be chomping at the bit for the opportunity to be the first ones to corner the market.
 
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