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(Uncrunched)   "A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today. And when I didn't do what she wanted, she simply took my boat and asked me to leave"   (uncrunched.com) divider line 146
    More: Asinine, Department of Homeland Security, US dollar, CAD  
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27108 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-22 09:48:14 AM  
16 votes:

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.
2013-02-22 09:45:27 AM  
14 votes:
If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.
2013-02-22 09:44:31 AM  
11 votes:
When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.
2013-02-22 10:13:28 AM  
10 votes:

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


I've heard liberals express confusion and frustration over the willingness of middle and lower class conservative people to defend tax cuts for the wealthy. Your comment helped me to see in a new way that this reflects a really fundamental difference in the thinking or maybe even the intuitions of the two groups. For conservatives, it really is about the principle of the thing. It doesn't matter to most of them that they'll never have enough money to import a boat and risk encountering problems such as this. It still pisses them off that someone has been treated this way.

For liberals, on the other hand, everything is about class. When that square peg won't fit in a round hole, pound harder.
2013-02-22 10:05:48 AM  
6 votes:
FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.
2013-02-22 09:56:58 AM  
6 votes:

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


That, in itself, is an indictment of the system.
2013-02-22 09:43:09 AM  
6 votes:
When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.
2013-02-22 10:40:20 AM  
5 votes:

Rostin: GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.

I've heard liberals express confusion and frustration over the willingness of middle and lower class conservative people to defend tax cuts for the wealthy. Your comment helped me to see in a new way that this reflects a really fundamental difference in the thinking or maybe even the intuitions of the two groups. For conservatives, it really is about the principle of the thing. It doesn't matter to most of them that they'll never have enough money to import a boat and risk encountering problems such as this. It still pisses them off that someone has been treated this way.

For liberals, on the other hand, everything is about class. When that square peg won't fit in a round hole, pound harder.



You're not any closer to understanding liberals than you were yesterday.  You've just found a new way to demonize what you don't understand.

If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

Granted, this may not be a great model of how liberal and conservatives minds work.  But it does have the advantage of being about eleventy billion times closer to the truth than that crap you just vomited up.

It's really not that one side is suffering from some horrible character flaw such as greed, laziness or selfishness.  Both sides care deeply about ethical or moral principles.  They just don't agree on which principles are most important.
2013-02-22 10:19:30 AM  
5 votes:

syberpud: The guy acted like a douche


How in the hell did he act like a douche? He was being asked to swear to something that wasn't true and he knew this. He could have possibly been prosecuted for signing it. People go to jail for lying to federal agents.


He did the right thing.
2013-02-22 10:18:59 AM  
5 votes:

The Snow Dog: Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.

Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.


I would not have signed it. Want to know why? Because the same government bureaucracy that listed the purchase price in USD rather than CAD would have later sent the IRS to this guy's house, auditing him and\or fining him for lying on a government form -  even though it was that same bureaucracy that made the mistake, not the purchaser.
2013-02-22 09:57:10 AM  
5 votes:
They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.
2013-02-22 09:56:17 AM  
5 votes:

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".
2013-02-22 09:48:00 AM  
5 votes:

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


No need for a lawyer. A customs broker will do the trick and is much cheaper.
2013-02-22 09:44:40 AM  
5 votes:
I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.
DGK
2013-02-22 10:33:36 AM  
4 votes:
If he had signed the paper with the wrong amount would it of caused further problems down the road? Like how much he had to pay to license it and stuff? Could this come out in some type of audit and he then gets accused of faking the form to hide money from the IRS?   Sorry but my first thought would be to sign the correct form - would of been easy for her to do.  She is just a idiot who is one brain cell away from crapping during a parade.
2013-02-22 10:32:58 AM  
4 votes:
Regardless of the situation, it is always a bad idea to sign paperwork that has errors or inaccuracies .
2013-02-22 10:26:34 AM  
4 votes:
Knowingly filing false information on a federal form is punishable by up to 5 years in prison.
2013-02-22 10:10:42 AM  
4 votes:

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


It was his boat. He paid for it. If you are going to trivialize his problem because he has some money, then you also have to admit that your problems are trivial for the sole reason that there is someone worse off than you.
2013-02-22 10:10:42 AM  
4 votes:

untaken_name: Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".


Exactly.  Signing a document you know to be false is a bad thing.

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


The problem is that the value on the form was wrong.
2013-02-22 10:00:49 AM  
4 votes:

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.
2013-02-22 09:55:10 AM  
4 votes:
I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.
2013-02-22 09:51:21 AM  
4 votes:
K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.
2013-02-22 09:43:32 AM  
4 votes:
Should have called a real law enforcement agent to report the robbery at gunpoint.
2013-02-22 11:38:27 AM  
3 votes:

PaLarkin: So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.


Hi.  Welcome to Fark.  To a certain (and rather large) subset of the population here, virtually every other person is already an asshole, and their status as such is a wholly immutable fact.  Any and all narratives must, by necessity, be altered to conform around this fixed point in reality.

static.someecards.com
2013-02-22 10:57:52 AM  
3 votes:

oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.


The boat easily costs > 500,000CAD.  At today's exchange rate, that is 488,000USD or a difference of 12K.  They are asking him to value it at 500K USD vs. 488K.  A bit more than "nipicking over cents"  It's a yacht, not a diet coke
2013-02-22 10:46:24 AM  
3 votes:

JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.


F*ckballs.  I can't stand all the f*cking morons on this site who think there's a difference between the political parties.  They're all out to screw us, and most of us sit here pointing fingers at each other.  Everyone here is more like each other than we are like them, and that's the f*cking truth.
2013-02-22 10:44:11 AM  
3 votes:

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


This is the dumbest thing I've read here today.

In case you don't know, there are absolutely a ton of little laws that the police and DHS can/will use to stuff you up and bend you over if you deliberately do something as trivial as sign and swear to a form that's not completely correct.  It's simply common sense these days to be pedantic and precise when you are filling out things like this.  To do otherwise is stupid.

It's in the same vein as kids who study to be accountants in college, finish their years of schooling with debt piled up, intern to get some accounting experience, take the CPA exam, and find out that they can't get their certificate because that one time in freshman year they got hauled downtown and fined $100 for trying to use a fake ID, which counts as a "falsified document" on their record.

I'd personally have corrected the form and signed the corrected version.  That changes the situation from "won't sign, therefore seize" to "our process doesn't allow form corrections, what do we do?" in which case they'd either officially re-issue the form with the correction or (more likely) ignore it because it's too much trouble to deal with.  The big advantage consumers have in dealing with most TSA and customs folks is that they're government employees, and therefore a high number of them are lazy as hell.

This guy started out smart, but then got dumb.  I dunno what he expected to happen, maybe he thought they'd just say "oh well, never mind!".
2013-02-22 10:38:49 AM  
3 votes:
Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.


I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.
2013-02-22 10:36:39 AM  
3 votes:

digitalrain: Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.

Seriously? You think he is being OC because he didn't want to legally and bindingly attest to information on a FEDERAL document that he knew was incorrect? It isn't like he asked her to re-draft the entire document. All he wanted was to either a) change USD to CAD or b) change the amount so that it reflected the correct amount.

If you lived in the US and were purchasing a home in CA for USD $250,000 and the mortgage documents mistakenly listed the sale price as USD $254,750 (CAD$254,750 is what US$250k converts to) wouldn't you want that corrected? Or are you cool with legally agreeing to pay almost $5k extra all because of a currency notation error?


Agree, especially when you are talking about a boat with a price tag well north of 500,000
2013-02-22 10:26:16 AM  
3 votes:

fastfxr: He's a douche. Sign the document, pay the inevitable fine that arises from signing a government form that has incorrect information on it, and get your boat.

I'm sure you've done far worse.


Fixed that for you.

/Seriously, how are people overlooking this?
//A bureaucracy that would screw up the form in the first place will happily prosecute you for signing such a form, because even though the mistake was theirs, the form still said you verify that all information is correct
2013-02-22 10:26:06 AM  
3 votes:

syberpud: The guy acted like a douche,


I don't see the douche part.  The form was wrong he wasn't going to sign it.  You're an idiot if you would.  If later one some controversy about him "illegally importing a boat" came up later and it came out that he knew the form was wrong and signed it anyway you'd be the guy here saying "He was a douche for signing when he knew it was wrong".   Get over yourself.  He noticed the error and even explained how to correct it so they could move on past this and the DHS got all AUTHORITAH on him.
2013-02-22 10:22:22 AM  
3 votes:

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


You do realize the princples are governmental abuse of power,  property rights and due process, right?

It ode snto matter over what
2013-02-22 10:21:52 AM  
3 votes:

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


Exactly. Always do this. That way, the United States wouldn't exist today.

/How do people forget that our country was essentially founded by terrorists who refused to comply with their legal government?
//Blindly following authority "gets you whatever this is". Fark authority - unless it makes sense.
2013-02-22 10:21:21 AM  
3 votes:
It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.
2013-02-22 10:08:34 AM  
3 votes:

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


So?  Now property rights are relative to the item in question?

The guy acted like a douche, but he had a point and the officer could be seen as violating authority.  We only have his side of the story though so I wonder what really happened.

I'm guessing some sort of smuggling charge will be concocted to seize the boat and he'll have to go through a lot of hoops to reclaim it.  Happens a lot.
2013-02-22 10:07:59 AM  
3 votes:
So in other words some douchebag has no idea how the world works?  I went into this story hoping to have sympathy for the victim, but honestly, he's a farking idiot.  She wasn't looking for a bribe, she wasnt willing to spend time or risk punishment for trying to correct a problem that was not her farking problem..

SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

/seriously fark this guy.
2013-02-22 09:59:31 AM  
3 votes:

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


That's an awesome way to say, "The government unfairly impounded my property."

Boot licker.
2013-02-22 09:52:08 AM  
3 votes:
www.wired.com
2013-02-22 09:50:30 AM  
3 votes:
"It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter," she said.

Official motto of the DHS (Department of Geheime Sicherheitsschauspiel).
2013-02-22 09:50:20 AM  
3 votes:

Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.


This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.
2013-02-22 09:47:05 AM  
3 votes:

Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.


You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?
2013-02-22 09:40:45 AM  
3 votes:
24.media.tumblr.com


All I could think of.
2013-02-22 07:04:35 PM  
2 votes:

Ace Rimmer: If he is filing an entry with 489 different items and it isn't obvious what currency his values are in then it is significant.

If it is a one item entry where it is obvious the price was recorded in Canadian dollars it is insignificant.

If any one every questions it all he has to do is show his invoice and it will be obvious the amount is correct. Nobody is sitting in jail in the USA for failing to do a currency conversion on a Customs form.


Just shut the fark up.

People have been fined and threatened with jail for minor form issues-look at gun dealers and how the ATF was treating them if they allowed a person to abbreviate a street, state or country on the 4473.  (The most recent forms finally allow postal abbreviations.)

What seems minor to you, me, or another person may be a felony if the government wants to enforce it.

I'd hate to see you as a notary.
2013-02-22 05:47:16 PM  
2 votes:

odinsposse: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide.


I think you mean "The customs agent told him to perjure himself.She called another agent who also encouraged him to perjure himself."

/there is no 'let it slide' when you're swearing something to be the truth
2013-02-22 05:42:19 PM  
2 votes:

Ace Rimmer: He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form because it had incorrect information on it, and by signing, he was swearing this incorrect information was actually correct.


FTFY.
2013-02-22 02:36:00 PM  
2 votes:
Well there has been a lot of DHS hate, but just to buck the trend, CSB

I was returning home to Ottawa (I'm a canuck) from a conference in San Diego.  I had left my baggage in check at my hotel for the day as my first flight was a red-eye to Chicago.  That evening I got my bags, went to the airport, and discovered that me passport had been stolen while my bags had been in check.  I filed a police report and checked with United...as a Canadian citizen returning to Canada, I did not require a passport.  I needed proof of citizenship and photo ID...I had a copy of my birth certificate and my drivers licence which qualified, and I got on the plane.

However in Chicago the good folks at United refused to let me on the plane, saying I needed a passport.  I couldn't convince them otherwise (perhaps whatever info was available in San Diego hadn't made it that far east).  I missed my 6 am flight and since no one knew what to do with me, they sent me to DHS.  DHS looked up the rules and said yea, I didn't need a passport and should be able to get on a plane.  United drones said no, wait for the manager.  I missed 2 more flights waiting for him to show up some time after 10 am.  He too insisted I needed a passport.

I was starting to get upset.  It was Sunday morning and the Canadian consulate would be closed until Tuesday (Canadian Thanksgiving was that Monday).  My cell battery was dying.  I hadn't slept in over 24 hours (and had spent most of the previous day in the sun walking around the San Diego zoo).  I was getting fried.

DHS dude was my savior.  He let me use their phone to call home to update my family.  Then he marched over to the United manager with a copy of Canadian regulations...highlighted...showing that I had adequate ID.  Then he marched the manager over to the nearest United counter and had him ensure that I had a pass for the 1 pm flight, confirm that my luggage would be transferred, and call ahead to make sure the boarding staff would allow me on the plane sans passport.  From the the way the woman at the ticket counter was smirking at the manager, it seemed she was enjoying the show.  So yea...thank you DHS.

/TL I know :(
/end CSB
2013-02-22 12:08:27 PM  
2 votes:

orclover: SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.


This is CBP, not TSA.  With locality, LEAP, etc. it's more like $40-50 an hour and up.

The Officer is much richer than the average American, and it's certainly not unreasonable to expect some level of competence for that compensation.
2013-02-22 11:56:09 AM  
2 votes:

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


So the authorities get to do what they want, then it's up to you to spend more time and money convincing a court they were wrong.  If the court happens to find that that they were wrong, the worst that happens is the agency has to hand over some taxpayer money, issue an apology unbecoming a 1st grader, and pinky swear they won't do it again.

Yet some people wonder why others flat our distrust or loathe government officials.
2013-02-22 11:31:21 AM  
2 votes:

abhorrent1: He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.


So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.  When I go to a store and buy something and get my receipt, I'm done.  If some door nazi wants to see my receipt, he's going to be disappointed.  I paid for it and I will not show them my receipt unless they can prove to my satisfaction  they have good cause to  see it.  One reason the country has gone down the toilet is so many people just submit to whatever crap government imposes on them.
2013-02-22 11:19:20 AM  
2 votes:

orclover: She wasn't looking for a bribe, she wasnt willing to spend time or risk punishment for trying to correct a problem that was not her farking problem..SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.


Congratulations on being part of the problem I referenced upthread. Giving situational authority over perceived "rich guys" to angry, low-paid, chip on their shoulder, bureau-tards like this woman (and presumably you) is a recipe for this sort of abuse. "Spending time correcting a problem" is this woman's job, but like most low-level functionaries she'd rather focus on petty vengeance for how her life has worked out so far. Blaming the boat guy for not wanting to attest to something that he knew was false is beyond foolish.
2013-02-22 11:16:02 AM  
2 votes:
Rostin:  I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.

Pro tip: don't fark around with immigration forms. If you fark it up, it can have serious consequences that can haunt you and your wife for a very long time, as you already suggested. I went through the visa process with the State Dept and permanent residency with USCIS with help of an immigration attorney. It wasn't cheap, but it was money well spent.
2013-02-22 10:59:43 AM  
2 votes:
And this is the same caring bureaucracy that we trust to make health care work.  And save social security.  And protect our borders.
2013-02-22 10:56:01 AM  
2 votes:
I'm almost entirely certain that the people asserting that, "This idiot douchebag should have just done what he was told to do, he deserves it," would be the EXACT same group of people saying, "This douchebag should have obeyed the verbiage on the form, he deserves it," if he wound up getting in trouble for signing an incorrect document.
2013-02-22 10:50:27 AM  
2 votes:

DarkSoulNoHope: I would say the man has a big court case on his hands to get the boat back, seizing without probable cause because the agent (if it was an agent and not some thief posing as one; post leaves out a few details such as where the seizing took place (the name of the border crossing) and the woman's badge number) didn't understand the paperwork.


No, he has jack squat. He was importing a boat and refused to cooperate with the customs process. The boat was already in the possession of customs and they simply didn't let him have it for not finishing the paperwork. He already paid the taxes on it and the dollar value on the paper was really unimportant. If you literally have a government agent telling you it didn't matter and he signed it, then they tried to charge him with a crime for the incorrect numbers then that would be entrapment.

You don't just drive up to the border with a boat and say "here we are!" You have to arrange things with the Canadian government as well as the American. You have to get permission to export as well as import. The paper work can take days or weeks to be approved. That's why, like most people have pointed out, that trying to important a large and expensive item is not for amatuers and for professional import brokers.
2013-02-22 10:35:05 AM  
2 votes:

pxlboy: Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.

Put down the crack pipe


No shiat. I'm socially liberal, with a mixture of conservative and liberal fiscal ideals, and this is not something to be giddy about; it's a sign of the failure of the government, and a warning sign.
2013-02-22 10:32:47 AM  
2 votes:

tricycleracer: So the real lesson here is to buy American.


Do you know why there aren't many boat builders left in the USA?

Hint, take a look around this place.
2013-02-22 10:30:21 AM  
2 votes:

meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.


No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.
2013-02-22 10:29:42 AM  
2 votes:

tricycleracer: So the real lesson here is to buy American.


My takeaway from the story is to get out of 'Murikka as soon as possible.
2013-02-22 10:29:33 AM  
2 votes:

dready zim: Agent Smiths Laugh: BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.

Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."

Why not have both people wear the first badge? Or both badges?


Hmm, perhaps, but I think the onus lies mostly with the agent since the agent was performing a government duty in an official capacity, and is thus expected to perform said duty correctly, legally, and to the best of her ability. Though, it seems, the best of her ability isn't very good.

But this thread seems to lean heavily in the capitulation camp.

media-cache-ec0.pinterest.com
2013-02-22 10:23:56 AM  
2 votes:

Ehcks: Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.


You mean like he offered to do but wasn't allowed to? Yeah, that would have been a good idea. oh look FTA

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.
2013-02-22 10:17:30 AM  
2 votes:
FTFA: "Buying this boat was one of the worst decisions I've ever made, and the nightmare is only just starting."said every boat owner, ever.
2013-02-22 10:16:51 AM  
2 votes:

BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.


Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."
2013-02-22 10:12:10 AM  
2 votes:

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


Seriously? You think he is being OC because he didn't want to legally and bindingly attest to information on a FEDERAL document that he knew was incorrect? It isn't like he asked her to re-draft the entire document. All he wanted was to either a) change USD to CAD or b) change the amount so that it reflected the correct amount.

If you lived in the US and were purchasing a home in CA for USD $250,000 and the mortgage documents mistakenly listed the sale price as USD $254,750 (CAD$254,750 is what US$250k converts to) wouldn't you want that corrected? Or are you cool with legally agreeing to pay almost $5k extra all because of a currency notation error?
2013-02-22 10:11:36 AM  
2 votes:
Am I supposed to feel sorry for this guy?
2013-02-22 10:08:50 AM  
2 votes:
People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.
2013-02-22 10:07:50 AM  
2 votes:
A whole lot of placating the bureaucracy going on in this thread.

/there actually is a matter of legal principle in the stance he took
//but it i so much easier to just obey isn't it?
2013-02-22 10:05:53 AM  
2 votes:
Pedant loses boat due to minor clerical error.  Film at 11.
2013-02-22 09:58:31 AM  
2 votes:

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.




Isn't that the story of the 2000 presidential election?
2013-02-22 09:58:16 AM  
2 votes:
Your meme is bad and you should feel bad.
2013-02-22 09:56:22 AM  
2 votes:

AxemRed: When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.


As much of a biatch as this DHS drone was being, she probably would have tried to hit him with attempting to alter a federal document.
2013-02-22 09:46:01 AM  
2 votes:
So; what you are saying is; you spotted what you thought was a clerical error, and refused to sign a binding legal document because of said error?

And as a result of this decision; the item in question was ceased by the newest, quite possibly most bloated, department of the government?

/ go ahead, get that lawyer; make the department of homeland security's day, punk.
2013-02-22 09:45:55 AM  
2 votes:
People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.
2013-02-22 09:44:00 AM  
2 votes:
He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.
2013-02-22 09:42:33 AM  
2 votes:
Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.
2013-02-22 06:32:01 PM  
1 votes:

Ace Rimmer: mongbiohazard: Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.

You seem to have left some things out:

One of the rules of the form is that the information must be accurate.
The information was not accurate.
The customs official would not update the information to be accurate.
Changing the info would have been a trivial matter for the customs official.
She decided to seize his boat instead and laugh in his face.

Completely not of his own making.

The form wants to know the price of the boat

It is supposed to be in US$

The price accidentally got recorded in CA$

The price is still recorded on the form

The error was insignificant and the officer was apparently satisfied that there was no reason not to release the boat


Then he decided to completely make his own reason for not getting his boat.


Who says it's insignificant ?  When dealing with any level of bureaucracy the most apparently trivial discrepancies have a nasty way of causing trouble down the line.  At any rate, when importing goods, having the wrong price on the accompanying documents is not a trivial matter.

It was not she who was asked to sign a document attesting that the inaccurate information it contained was accurate. Demanding that a private citizen sign a document she knew contained inaccurate information was at the very least a serious breach on her part.
2013-02-22 06:27:30 PM  
1 votes:

Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.


www.frontroomcinema.com

Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.


Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.


You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )
2013-02-22 05:44:17 PM  
1 votes:

odinsposse: There's no authoritarian angle to this. The proper bureaucratic procedure is: boat goes to customs > paperwork is wrong > customs holds the boat until paperwork is fixed. That's what happened.


Um, no. She refused to fix it.

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.

I thought this was important because I was signing it and swearing that the information, and specifically the price, was correct.

The DHS agent didn't care about the error and told me to sign the form anyway. "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter," she said.
2013-02-22 05:39:51 PM  
1 votes:

Macular Degenerate: So if he had just signed the government created form and "overlooked" the error, he would have his boat and no one would have been the wiser for it. Instead, he wanted to make a point about how stupid and farked up the government is, and as a result of his foolishness he lost his boat.

IMHO, serves him right for trying to be a dick and make a point at some low level bureaucrat. In his shoes, I'd have just signed the damned form and kept my mouth shut


...and anytime in the future, someone could notice the incorrect info, and arrest you for perjury for lying on a government form.
2013-02-22 05:34:01 PM  
1 votes:

jpk_ks: ERNesbitt: ciberido:
If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.

I would endorse the ERNesbitt's statement - it's that whole 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome' question.  Admittedly, I'm biased as someone who tends towards the conservative side.


And again, yes, this is the issue from the Conservatives' point of view.  The Conservative take on it is it's a question of 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome'.   Of course, once you frame it that way, the Conservative way does some both more fair and more realistic.

You must understand, of course, that not everyone agrees with the way you framed it.
2013-02-22 05:31:39 PM  
1 votes:

Joe boater: Should have just made a hand written change to the document. Which anyone could have done and signed the blasted paper. But nooooo this crusader wanted to be superman.


Read the comments.  That's exactly what he wanted to do--but they wouldn't permit it.

Rostin: I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.


I've been though it (as the US citizen) sans lawyer.  Things turned out ok in the end but not because they wanted it that way.  I don't know for sure what happened but it looks like our first "interviewer" took a dislike to my wife and sabotaged her file somehow.  (Fortunately, we moved into the area of another office that was much more reasonable.)  They're also a total nightmare to deal with.  Back then they had some interesting ways of dealing with phone congestion, such as only leaving you on hold for a few minutes before disconnecting you.

AccuJack: I'd personally have corrected the form and signed the corrected version. That changes the situation from "won't sign, therefore seize" to "our process doesn't allow form corrections, what do we do?" in which case they'd either officially re-issue the form with the correction or (more likely) ignore it because it's too much trouble to deal with. The big advantage consumers have in dealing with most TSA and customs folks is that they're government employees, and therefore a high number of them are lazy as hell.


That's exactly what he did--and they responded by seizing.

Aidan: I'm only half-joking there. The forms themselves don't necessarily change, but the order in which you're supposed to file them does. Also take pictures of the pair of you in various places now, if you don't have any. Try to commingle your assets (shared bank accounts, shared address, bills that clearly come either to her name at your address or both your names, etc). Keep track of all your taxes, check stubs from your jobs, etc in one place so you can more easily start gathering the right documents when it comes time to start instead of saying "Oh crap. I didn't think you'd want my phone bill from 3 years ago!"


Second this, he's not joking.  It took IIRC three go-rounds with an affidavit of support (fortunately, not requiring a new fee each time) because supposedly the income claimed appears nowhere on the tax return.  I finally got it accepted by spending the better part of a page showing the math of how the number had been right all along.  Never mind that the tax return showed a higher number.  Never mind that we showed enough assets that it would have been approved with an income of $0.

Braindeath: I hate rich people as much as the next person but this is bullshiat. He said in the comments that she wouldn't let him change the form, and she imo withheld information from her boss so she could take the boat.

Bullshiat.

I also hope that people who have guns and this kind of authority aren't making 9 dollar an hour or the theft will be through the roof. [I'm assuming it is.]


It occurs to me that what might be going on here is that she gets some sort of bonus for seizures, never mind if they are legit or not.

The My Little Pony Killer: Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian. It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with. Guy's a pedantic asshole without a boat.


$1 Canadian != $1 USA.  Putting the wrong currency on the correct number makes it wrong.

graeylin: According to the US Government, you must take a series of physical tests with a doctor to make sure you aren't bringing in diseases, but at no step along the way, does anyone check to make sure it's actually "you" taking the physical and giving blood. Just send in a healthy ringer.


And they're not going to ban you if something terrible comes up, anyway.  The point of the physical is to catch the things that can be treated and make you get them treated.  I don't recall about ID by now, that was nearly a quarter century ago.

MsIndy: I agree: get a lawyer. She may have violated the terms of her student visa by marrying you if the wedding happened here. I ran into similar trouble when I married my (foreign) husband while he was here on a tourist visa (we had applied for a fiancee visa, but it hadn't been granted by the time we married). That was technically 'fraud' and had a knock-on effect that resulted in a deportation order for him (that we narrowly avoided by engaging a lawyer). Paying a lawyer to double-check your work will be money well-spent.


I'm surprised he even got a tourist visa with a fiancee visa pending.  Coming here to get married on a tourist visa is most certainly a no-no.  However, it's based on intent, if you come here as a genuine tourist, then fall in love and get married it's not a no-no.  I'm no lawyer and most of my dealings with them are long ago but I don't see that he's in the wrong.
2013-02-22 05:25:03 PM  
1 votes:

ERNesbitt: I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.


I'm sure that's how Conservatives see it, yes.
2013-02-22 04:13:42 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Macular Degenerate: he wanted to make a point about how stupid and farked up the government is, and as a result of his foolishness

Yeah, what a silly thing to do. He's probably some commie, soshlist, wise guy sh*t stirrer.  Bad citizen.  No boat.

Macular Degenerate: I'd have just signed the damned form and kept my mouth shut

You are a 1%er's wet dream.


There's no authoritarian angle to this. The proper bureaucratic procedure is: boat goes to customs > paperwork is wrong > customs holds the boat until paperwork is fixed. That's what happened.

The customs agent wanted to bed the rules. She was, if anything, trying to be less of an authoritarian asshole. The blogger was the one who insisted they follow the rules.
2013-02-22 04:11:14 PM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.


He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.
2013-02-22 02:34:36 PM  
1 votes:

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


Shut the fark up.  You are giving young impressionable people the impression that you have some knowledge of the subject, and it's obvious you don't.

I have actually imported many many cargo containers worth of materials from various countries, and I can tell you, it doesn't require a lawyer, nor would one be particularly useful.  Generally.

The process is simple, and easy, and the forms are not at all bad.  The rules are bit... confusing, but they are made that way, as with all other things government.

The best advice I can give anyone doing this... (importing) do whatever the customs guy says, including paying him a "fee".  It's faster, cheaper and easier.  Also, if you are doing what this guy did, and buying a boat internationally for local delivery.... don't.  Instead, tell the company THEY have to import the boat, and then he will buy it on US soil.  That way, they have to deal with the stupid ass agents at the border.
2013-02-22 01:58:30 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: How much you want to bet this chucklehead was warned to get a customs broker but decided he was too smart and rich to need one? Can't wait to find out if he decides to represent himself in court too.


I wonder if there are any other portable desk and a pen industries that I can knock together because simply trying to buy something without me getting my cut will result in some dour, gray cow taking your sh*t home.
2013-02-22 01:57:50 PM  
1 votes:

tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.

I'd like to believe that.  I'd like to believe that a lot of things that "can't happen here because that's not how stuff works" aren't happening every friggin' day, but I ain't holding my breath.

I've read more boat forums than I should have today and I cannot find a single example of his experience.

Then maybe he'll go to jail for saying things that aren't true about the glorious protectorate of the fatherland.  Something stinks someplace and my best guess is it has a .gov job.  It's usually the case.

You automatically assume he is 100% innocent in all of this?  You refuse to believe that he botched some part of this import and refuses to take personal responsibility?

You people complain that the borders are too open, then something like this happens, and magically the borders are too closed.


If you don't think there is a difference between stopping people from illegally entering the country and this then  ithink we have found the real problem with low information voters.
2013-02-22 01:54:55 PM  
1 votes:

odinsposse: If the paperwork is wrong then customs keeps the boat. Which is what happened.


I have GOT to buy a printing press and a badge.
2013-02-22 01:50:51 PM  
1 votes:

odinsposse: He owns it but that doesn't mean he can legally possess it.


Yeahhhhhhhh.   :  /

odinsposse: If something I own gets put into police evidence I'm still the owner.


And I'm sure the entire 37.50 will be returned to you in due course.
2013-02-22 01:49:11 PM  
1 votes:

Pitabred: See, the thing is that I'm not wanting the government to take more money from the rich, think it'll trickle down, or anything like that. It's my basic sense of fairness that says "Hey, I'm paying 20% of my income in taxes, why should the Romney's pay 15%? Shouldn't they pay at least the same rate as I do?" I think that everyone in this country, after we have taken care of their basic needs, has a duty to help pay for the public infrastructure that helps all of us. The deficit is almost entirely because of political shenanigans, handouts of government funds to corporate suppliers who are now not paying taxes on that money they made from it. Healthcare, military, DHS, all of it. Our GNP has grown year over year, but we somehow can't seem to do anything but bleed money, and now the poor are poorer than they've ever been, and the rich are richer, but the country is in deep in debt. And according to the GOP, it's all the fault of those 47% of poor people, and we just need to cut taxes on the richest more so that money trickles down. There's a problem with that.



I don't disagree with a single thing you said. In fact, my prediction is that soon the rich are going to start uprooting and leaving America in droves. They've run this country like a going out of business sale for 30 years and this is the endgame. shiat all over everything and leave the rest of us holding the bag. The truly frustrating part will be listening to the Economic Uncle Toms (rank and file conservatives) railing on us for not pandering to the rich enough.


However, that being said, it's still up to us to create our own destiny. My post was merely addressing the common notion that taxing the rich = more money for me, and you said it yourself, all the government can seem to do is bleed money.
2013-02-22 01:45:58 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: odinsposse: It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where sutoms paid for the boat.  My bad.


He owns it but that doesn't mean he can legally possess it. If something I own gets put into police evidence I'm still the owner.
2013-02-22 01:38:39 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: crispyorganic: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.  http://joshuatopolsky.com/post/2791763076/dear-michael-arrington

He may be an e-jerk but if it was patriotic and OK to steal from jerks, Dick Cheney and the Koch Brothers would be living behind dumpsters.  We have allowed a class of sadists, gutless punks and thieves with tin badges to be installed in our country and the absolute authority granted to these jerkoffs attracts precisely the sort of people you would assume such a job might.


It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released. The blogger never had legal possession of it.

This customs agent was trying to help this guy out by letting him take the boat even though the paperwork wasn't quite right. If the paperwork is wrong there is no scenario where that guy takes possession of the boat that day. The customs agent can't hand write in her own changes to things. That's just as illegal. It had to go through the whole process of getting paperwork from the manufacturer again.

The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.
2013-02-22 01:23:53 PM  
1 votes:
THIS IS AN OUT...oh. Michael Arrington. The only person I'd feel less pity for is Jason Calacanis, so... here's hoping he's next!

GO DHS
USA
USA
USA
2013-02-22 01:10:31 PM  
1 votes:

Pitabred: But as for your comments on class, go look at the income changes over the last 30 years between the rich and the middle class. Note how the middle-class has mildly increased while the upper incomes have shot up. Class warfare isn't from the middle class up. It started with the rich buying favorable tax laws as compared to the rest of us.



I agree with you somewhat (and I realize this is definitive thread-jack). There is unarguably an expanding gap between the rich and the middle class, but it has little to do with taxes. Liberals like you and me see this growing inequality and attempt to correct it with tax reform, but I believe that's simply punitive.


Why do we believe that our situations will improve if the rich are taxed more? What is the Federal government going to do with that extra income that will benefit us? The answer is nothing. Instead of trying to pull ourselves up, we are trying to drag them down. Satisfying, maybe. But it's not going to do us any real good.


The rich have further enriched themselves by cutting the middle class out of the equation. They use outsourcing and foreign manufacturing and automation and Wal-Mart to deprive the middle class of earning potential. This is a terrible thing for us, but fighting against it is no more productive than punching a river whose flood water is dragging your house out to sea. The solution is to grab what you can and build a new house somewhere else. Otherwise we are an entire population of travel agents fighting against the tyranny of Expedia.


Since the rich have removed us from the food chain, we now need to create our own food chain. The internet is the greatest equalizing technology ever created and even the homeless can use it for free at the library. Anyone with 10 dollars can create their own website and use it to create profitable content. This is the great economic opportunity of our time. Anyone can publish a kindle book through Amazon. Anyone can make a film and promote it on Youtube. Anyone can glue raccoon hair to a rock and sell it on Etsy. Anyone can import plastic garbage from China and sell it to whoever.


The middle class is desperately clinging to a boat that threw them overboard decades ago. Anyone who depends on a salary as their sole source of income is voluntarily enslaving themselves. Class warfare is real. Correction, was real. It's over and they won. It's just taken a while for us to notice. But the government won't save us. It can't even save itself. It's up to us to provide for our own salvation and look to the examples of those who have done it. Check out the guy in the article. I don't know anything about him except he started some blog I've never read and now his biggest problem is getting his brand-new, enormous, hand built yacht through customs. And we hate him for it when we should be looking to his example.


In my opinion, having the government take more money from the rich and hope it trickles down to us is just as ridiculous as Reagan's proposal ever was.
2013-02-22 12:43:32 PM  
1 votes:

dslknowitall: Kome: As usual, I took the "or else" option. And the bastards stole my boat.
I'll probably get droned now, too.

Up until you decided to go all conspiracy nutter and think that you're important enough for domestic spying. ...

We really need a sarcasm font so stuff like this doesn't happen. Dude was obviously joking. And everybody in this thread that says he deserved to have the boat taken is insane.


I do not think there is anything in the context of his blog post that indicates that comment could be sarcastic. But, yes, I agree that his boat should not have been taken away. What happened to him was f*cked up. But the tone of the article indicated a severely warped view of government. E.g. the quote that is the headline - what does it matter that the person had a gun? The same meaning without ascribing nefarious authoritarianism can be conveyed by just saying "A government employee asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today." The imagery of the gun is unnecessary and only serves as a rhetorical device to paint the situation as contrasting the citizen with the big bad government. The mention about being droned because of this moves it from "damn, you got screwed, I'm sorry" to "what happened really sucks, but you really need to put it in perspective because you're starting to sound crazy" territory.

mongbiohazard: Kome: mongbiohazard: Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?

Yes. Who else can afford to import a boat and doesn't have access to the internet!?

/facepalm

Just having access to the internet doesn't mean anyone gives a shiat what you have to say. But because of who he is he has fans/followers/admirers who can ensure the story gets wider attention then just some dude buying a boat from his brother or something.

Is that really a difficult concept for you?


And yet, Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, Fark, Reddit, Examiner, Imgur, Tumblr, Blogspot, Wordpress, Youtube, etc. etc. etc. It's amazing how many venues there are online for people to easily attain the sort of pulpit or following (in some capacity, obviously something like Fark/Reddit is different than Twitter/Tumblr) you think is a necessary precondition to make people aware of a perceived injustice (I only say perceived because not all rants on blogs reflect a true slight, even though in this case I genuinely believe the guy was royally screwed over). Even more amazing is how quickly word can spread because a person can link to their own blog. We have the ability to build our own pulpit and grow our own following (or at least, our own visibility). And if you can afford to import a vehicle, you can afford to sign up for all of those lovely free services (as this guy did) and share your own views. That's, you know, kind of what the Internet is for. That, and porn. Obviously. The internet is primarily for porn. But beyond porn, it gives anyone who has access to it the ability to create a niche for themselves to share whatever serious or inane thoughts they want to share.
2013-02-22 12:43:12 PM  
1 votes:

orclover: In Texas the border agents will barely make a living wage.  I highly doubt the socialist utopia of Washington State is paying their border agents doctors wages.  I have heard that la migra is only a slight step up from mall security work, almost on par with jail guards. She is not a lawyer, she's not an accountant, she probably barely has a high school education.   This is like asking the McDonald's cashier to make you crepes.  WTF is wrong with you people?  Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.


Her salary isn't paid by the state.  Federal LEO salary schedules are public information.  A midgrade GL-9 in Seattle is at $29.11/hour before 25% LEAP (availability pay).

http://archive.opm.gov/oca/12tables/html/SEA_leo_h.asp
2013-02-22 12:06:37 PM  
1 votes:

NEDM: One thing that I've got to point out:  he wasn't dealing with the DHS proper, he was dealing with US Customs.  While they can be assholes, it's like that with EVERY Customs agency around the world.  It's not a post-9/11 Jackboot thing, or even an uniquely American thing.  He kept calling them "DHS" because when people hear "Homeland Security" they automatically make the connection with TSA.


I realize a single anecdote doesm't prove anything, but here's my little css:

The worst customs experience I ever had was in  Perú.  I was stopping there on my way to the USA from Chile for a two-week vacation (Machu Picchu and all that jazz).  I brought with me my computer, which I had no intention of using in Perú; it was just luggage.  I was going through customs and had just converted all of my Chilean money into Preuvian money.  I had only a very few American dollars with me.  The customs people asked if they could open my suitcase and I said sure.  When they opened it, they found the computer (it was a desktop computer, not a laptop, and it had been packed in the suitcase).

Then they started talking about paying an import tax on the computer.  I argued that it was just luggage and I was just passing through. The problem, apparently, was that they thought I might try to sell the computer while in Perú.  After I assured them I had no intention of doing anything with the computer except taking it with me to the USA, they offered me a deal: pay the tax, leave the computer with them, and when I was about to leave Perú I could get my computer and the tax back, provided I immediately loaded the machine onto a plane flying out of the country.  After shifting some stuff around I left them the entire suitcase, which really was to my advantage as it meant I didn't have to schlep it around the country for two weeks.

I did get my stuff back and my "deposit," minus a really small processing fee.  The worst part was that I had to convert my Peruvian money into US dollars because they wouldn't take their own country's currency, and of course I lost some money from the moneychanging process (I really can't blame Jesus for beating those moneychangers with a whip).

Anyway, the point is, these guys were actually as helpful and accommodating as one could hope for while still enforcing the rules.
2013-02-22 12:04:09 PM  
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian. It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with


He ordered the boat in 2011. Was the price change to reflect what the exchange rate was or was he going to pay taxes on say 300k canadian dollars instead of 250k american dollars based on the exchange rates at the time?
2013-02-22 12:03:46 PM  
1 votes:

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.


If it's true. People pissed off about something tend to read the worst in a situation.
2013-02-22 12:01:38 PM  
1 votes:

Ace Rimmer: This Looks Fun: Ace Rimmer: The only reason for the dollar amount is to calculate duty.... which, since he doesn't mention it at all, I assume they weren't going to charge him. In that case it truly didn't matter what amount was written in that block, on a form that is going to spend all of its life sitting in a cardboard box next to Indy's ark.

You're not referring to THIS part of TFA, are you? : My job was to show up and sign forms and then leave with Buddy (WA sales tax and registration fees come a week later).

WA sales tax and registration fees are not US Customs duties....
The state of WA would have used the invoice to calculate sales tax and fees not his customs declaration.


Possibly; I can't be certain. I know with out-of-state cars, they use the title. I'm not sure if they'd use an invoice or a customs document. Either way, if I knew the price was wrong and I wasn't sure what the price would be for signing a wrong document, I too would wait for the corrected form. This incident does not make him look bad. It makes DHS look bad.
2013-02-22 11:55:56 AM  
1 votes:

inglixthemad: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.


What an idiot. I have less trouble carrying hunting rifles (3), dogs (2), and a travel trailer over the border than this dolt.


Probably because you aren't importing a half million dollar boat into the country that needs to be declared and properly recorded for tax purposes. You are probably just going hunting and need a couple of forms filled out along with your passport to get through. Just a bit different there hoss.
2013-02-22 11:47:46 AM  
1 votes:
I read the story, then had to check and see what other FARK-ers thought about the matter.

It's not about whether or not the guy is rich -- as so many seem to think. It's about the abuse of power -- kind of like the guards at airports these days.

Had he signed the incorrect document, he'd have been lying. With DHS, I have no doubt that it would have come back eventually to bite him in the arse. In court, he'd have a hard time explaining why he deliberately signed an incorrect document willingly.

I've seen court trials before, concerning similar things and the judge tends to berate the signer while the prosecutor questions the signers' integrity and no matter what excuse given, the judgment can go against him. (You see this a lot with promissory notes written out between citizens, especially boy friend and girl friend.)

At the very least, corrections could have been made, a witnessing note attached by the agent and copies sent to the necessary parties. That's done all the time in the business world.

I suspect we have an overzealous DHS agent there. Plus DHS seems to have more power than cops, with much less accountability.

Now, he'll have to let his lawyers handle the mess and wind up forking out a bunch more money for someone else's mistakes.
2013-02-22 11:41:46 AM  
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Loren: untaken_name: Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".

Exactly.  Signing a document you know to be false is a bad thing.

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.

The problem is that the value on the form was wrong.

Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian.  It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with.  Guy's a pedantic asshole without a boat.


Hint: The currency listed affects the value
2013-02-22 11:35:16 AM  
1 votes:

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


It should be simple enough for anyone to do.
2013-02-22 11:34:55 AM  
1 votes:

glass_ibis: I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.


It definitely is a crime to make false statements with intent to deceive a U.S. government officer.  People get nailed on that one all the time.  Attempting to compel someone to make such a false statement probably is illegal too, but the chance that the DHS officer gets anything more than an brief off-the-record lecture in the back room are nil, even if boat guy wins his boat back.
2013-02-22 11:34:24 AM  
1 votes:

Braindeath: I hate rich people as much as the next person liberal Farker, but this is bullshiat. He said in the comments that she wouldn't let him change the form, and she imo withheld information from her boss so she could take the boat.

Bullshiat.

I also hope that people who have guns and this kind of authority aren't making 9 dollar an hour or the theft will be through the roof. [I'm assuming it is.]


FTFY

So if you become rich someday, will you still hate your life as much as you do now?
2013-02-22 11:23:12 AM  
1 votes:
Some people leave swirling eddies of drama in their wake naturally
2013-02-22 11:22:44 AM  
1 votes:

shoegaze99: Do you think she kept a firm grip on it the entire time? He was there to sign the paperwork, so clearly the paperwork was in his possession at that point otherwise he couldn't have read and signed it. He could have easily initialed in the change when he had the paperwork and a pen there in his hands.


I've edited my share of contracts in my time as well. I worked in the repossessions and total loss department for a major car finance company for a couple of years, and hand-corrected a number of mistakes on the various payoff documents.

In about 25% of those cases, the insurance company refused to accept the hand-written corrections and reissued the form with the correction made themselves before they would release the payoff to the financer.

Maybe she would have accepted it after he altered it. Maybe she would have stopped him or refused to accept it. Personally, I wouldn't have taken the chance.
2013-02-22 11:21:04 AM  
1 votes:
It sounds like he did everything right and the overzealous agent should be fired. Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?

And let me just tell you that after years of working with a lot of DHS employees this doesn't surprise me one bit. Of all the agencies they seem to have the highest amount of farktards. A buddy of mine who works for a sensitive governemt agency has had run-ins with some of the same bozos I have. When I asked him what the deal was he told me that whenever they have someone who is a problem to work with but don't want to deal with the onerous process of firing them (or it's just that they're difficult dickbags which in and of itself isn't fireable) they literally arrange to give the problem person a promotion to a better job in DHS to get them out of their hair.
2013-02-22 11:15:53 AM  
1 votes:

Langdon Alger: never buy a boat or a pool. make really good friends with someone who has one or both. Unless of course you can afford to pay someone else to maintain them, but then again you're still better off burning $20 bills in the backyard.


Definitely on the boat, but as a pool owner I can say it's not that bad from a financial cost perspective.  I probably spend about $500 a year on chemicals, assorted fixes, and amortizing the cost of multi-year use equipment (robot vacuum, solar cover, winter cover).

The issue is time.  I probably spend about 4 hours a week doing something with it.  It's pressure washing the deck, scrubbing the walls, cleaning the vacuum, skimming, etc..  The opportunity cost is what gets you.
2013-02-22 11:12:24 AM  
1 votes:
I hate rich people as much as the next person but this is bullshiat. He said in the comments that she wouldn't let him change the form, and she imo withheld information from her boss so she could take the boat.

Bullshiat.

I also hope that people who have guns and this kind of authority aren't making 9 dollar an hour or the theft will be through the roof. [I'm assuming it is.]
2013-02-22 11:09:31 AM  
1 votes:

Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.

The boat easily costs > 500,000CAD.  At today's exchange rate, that is 488,000USD or a difference of 12K.  They are asking him to value it at 500K USD vs. 488K.  A bit more than "nipicking over cents"  It's a yacht, not a diet coke


Exactly. I thought that was the point I made, but apparently my round number estimates were difficult to understand. Yours works better.
2013-02-22 11:08:24 AM  
1 votes:
I'm seething with contempt for everybody who thinks this guy was wrong for not rolling over. You're all the people who were applauding when Padme said liberty dies with thundering applause.
2013-02-22 11:06:52 AM  
1 votes:
ciberido:
If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.
2013-02-22 11:05:56 AM  
1 votes:

WireFire2: DarkSoulNoHope:

No, he has jack squat. He was importing a boat and refused to cooperate with the customs process. The boat was already in the possession of customs and they simply didn't let him have it for not finishing the paperwork. He already paid the taxes on it and the dollar value on the paper was really unimportant. If you literally have a government agent telling you it didn't matter and he signed it, then they tried to charge him with a crime for the incorrect numbers then that would be entrapment.


Armchair lawyer much?

Back at you:  If he signed it, they'd be able to legally charge him with a crime, because he committed one, that of knowingly stating that incorrect information was true... they call that fraud, perjury, falsifying documents, and several other things depending on where you do it.  At the most basic level, he had a choice whether to commit the crime (however trivial) or not.  In order to have a hope of defense against that he'd have to prove he was forced or coerced to sign the document without any record of the conversation.  A jury wouldn't share his feelings about getting his boat, they'd say "Well, that was dumb." and find him guilty.

Also, if he just goes with it and doesn't get prosecuted for falsifying the document, he's stuck with that price forever, it's almost impossible to correct after the fact.  States use boat prices to calculate things like annual license fees and taxes too, so he might well be stuck paying extra for the boat forever.

He's still dumb, though.  I can almost hear him thinking "I won't sign this because it's wrong.  That'll force them to fix this broken system!".  Nope.
2013-02-22 11:02:25 AM  
1 votes:
This blows my mind, that this guy is getting no sympathy. If he'd "just gone along with it" sooner or later that clerical error would have been used to screw him in some other way by some other bureaucrat.

HURF DURF GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION IS BORING SO THEY CAN ROB PEOPLE NOW I STOPPED CARING
2013-02-22 11:02:12 AM  
1 votes:
DHS: "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter"

Right. It's just a federal crime. NBD.
I mean, sure, it can be used as "evidence" to justify some other search, seizure or fishing expedition.
But, you're probably already guilty of a few other such crimes, so what's one more?
2013-02-22 11:01:12 AM  
1 votes:
I would not have signed as well, for the reasons people have already stated.

That does not mean the author wasn't the douchebag in this story.  The drone had no ability to alter policy.  He needed to either accept that and make arrangements to wait for an opportunity to speak with someone who could, hire a professional who knows how to navigate the import bureaucracy, or just not be a douchebag.  She got excited?  Damn well bet your ass she did after you acted like a douchebag.  Sucks to be a douchebag, douchebag.
2013-02-22 10:59:07 AM  
1 votes:

xaratherus: oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.

And as has been repeated before, do you think that a bureaucracy that would have screwed up the currency on the form in the first place would hesitate for one second to turn around and fine this guy later for knowingly signing a federal form that contained invalid information?

The blogger wasn't nitpicking over the amount; he was nitpicking over the fact that the government got the form wrong  and had he signed it more than likely would have later come back to punish  him for their mistake.


Good point. The boat company SHOULD have supplied a US-dollar invoice. Most companies up here do that when selling to the US.
2013-02-22 10:53:36 AM  
1 votes:

Agent Smiths Laugh: BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.

Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."


I really don't understand.  The shipper has to sign a document stating "this is exactly what I am shipping" the receiver must sign a document stating the exact same thing.  Those documents must match.  You don't want the receiver to lie by signing a form that isn't true, but you are fine with the customs agent lying by filing false paperwork?  If you want to be pedantic about it, fine - the system worked exactly like it was meant to and everyone should go to bed happy knowing that the letter of the law was followed.
Ant
2013-02-22 10:47:46 AM  
1 votes:

Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.


It's got nothing to do with liberalism. This liberal thinks this kind of shiat is asinine.
2013-02-22 10:46:18 AM  
1 votes:

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.
2013-02-22 10:41:41 AM  
1 votes:
 You want to save money?
SHUT DOWN THE DHS AND TSA.
We don't need them.
It's a farce that is sucking your money, and rights, and lives away.

Farking pants pooping cowards.
Stand up as Americans and tell your congress critters they are out of a job unless they restore their country back to pre 19/11/01 conditions.
What the fark is the matter with you people?

Oh, you're just going to lie back and think of the Queen?
2013-02-22 10:39:35 AM  
1 votes:
Bureaucrats making sure that people dot every i and cross every t: perfectly understandable, they are just doing their job.
Someone making sure that bureaucrats dot every i and cross every t: NO BOAT FOR YOU!
2013-02-22 10:35:36 AM  
1 votes:

JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.


Stupidity, immaturity and bigotry are bipartisan.
2013-02-22 10:29:31 AM  
1 votes:

Slam Dunkz: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche,

I don't see the douche part.  The form was wrong he wasn't going to sign it.  You're an idiot if you would.  If later one some controversy about him "illegally importing a boat" came up later and it came out that he knew the form was wrong and signed it anyway you'd be the guy here saying "He was a douche for signing when he knew it was wrong".   Get over yourself.  He noticed the error and even explained how to correct it so they could move on past this and the DHS got all AUTHORITAH on him.


This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.
2013-02-22 10:28:16 AM  
1 votes:
So the real lesson here is to buy American.
2013-02-22 10:23:18 AM  
1 votes:

internut scholar: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche

How in the hell did he act like a douche? He was being asked to swear to something that wasn't true and he knew this. He could have possibly been prosecuted for signing it. People go to jail for lying to federal agents.


He did the right thing.


"If I am allowed to change errors on this form or if I am presented with a form that is correct then I will sign which is your current request, that I sign that the form is correct and free from errors. If your position is that I must sign even if the form is not correct then would you sign something to that effect please?"
2013-02-22 10:20:48 AM  
1 votes:

Joe boater: Should have just made a hand written change to the document. Which anyone could have done and signed the blasted paper. But nooooo this crusader wanted to be superman.


Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.

So many alternatives to going full retard and losing his boat.
2013-02-22 10:19:11 AM  
1 votes:

kendelrio: FTFA: "Buying this boat was one of the worst decisions I've ever made, and the nightmare is only just starting."said every boat owner, ever.


Always be the FRIEND of the guy with the boat. NEVER be the guy with the boat.

(I think Tim Ferriss said that)
2013-02-22 10:16:48 AM  
1 votes:

PanicMan: dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.

If America is no longer the greatest country on Earth, then what is?


It's usually somewhere Scandinavian.

Although if you go north a bit, Canada's more or less in the top 10. Provided you don't mind being cold. :)
2013-02-22 10:15:52 AM  
1 votes:

AxemRed: When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.


This is what I would have tried. Scratch it out, make a note, initial and date.

glass_ibis: I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.


If it didn't work, I'd follow it up with this.

BumpInTheNight: Should have called a real law enforcement agent to report the robbery at gunpoint.


Or this, if she was big enough of a biatch about it.

/ Friend had a car towed from a parking space where he had been legally parked and there was obviously no applicable "no parking" sign.
// When they refused to release the car, I told him to advise them he was going to report his car stolen.
/// They actually took his car back to the parking space for him. Every clown working at that place was probably already on probation and didn't want any part of it. CSB.
2013-02-22 10:13:10 AM  
1 votes:

s1ugg0: Some people in this world just don't get that you have to pick your battles.  Because not everything is worth fighting for.


How was he to know that they wouldn't come back and tell him that he falsified information? Bureaucrats be arbitrary like dat.
2013-02-22 10:13:03 AM  
1 votes:

SurelyShirley: gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.

No need for a lawyer. A customs broker will do the trick and is much cheaper.


Came to say this. I work for a customs broker, we are MUCH cheaper than lawyers. Guy sounds like a tool.
2013-02-22 10:13:00 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.


If America is no longer the greatest country on Earth, then what is?
2013-02-22 10:11:50 AM  
1 votes:
If he would have bought a boat made in the good ol' U.S. of A. he wouldn't have this problem.  This is what happens when you buy from commie ferringers.
2013-02-22 10:11:36 AM  
1 votes:
Some people in this world just don't get that you have to pick your battles.  Because not everything is worth fighting for.
2013-02-22 10:11:03 AM  
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.

Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.


Wow, that's crooked. If I poached a guy like they poached your friend, not only would he have been found not guilty but the judge would've wrung me out like a wet facecloth and hung me over the fence.
2013-02-22 10:09:58 AM  
1 votes:
Was it form 27B stroke 6?

4.bp.blogspot.com
2013-02-22 10:09:24 AM  
1 votes:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.


...he seems like the kind of guy who would rather take the boat back by force than give them another cent.  Of course, that translates into him sitting on his ass complaining while his boat eventually gets auctioned off to pay for the storage fees, so.
2013-02-22 10:00:42 AM  
1 votes:
Douche bag with a boat acts like a douche bag and gets boat taken away until he signs a farking form............
2013-02-22 09:58:36 AM  
1 votes:
He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.
2013-02-22 09:54:27 AM  
1 votes:
Should've been a simple matter of making the change in ink, initialing the change, and signing the document. Done. To the guy writing this article, good fortune with all of whatever the deal is.
2013-02-22 09:49:09 AM  
1 votes:
Sadly, the fact is that as an American citizen you have a Constitutional right to leave the country, and a similar right to enter the country, but that right doesn't extend to your stuff. The Customs laws go back to the earliest days of the Republic, and some of the Supreme Court cases ruling that they can trump due process rights are now 200 years old. This isnt just a war on terror thing, although that hardly helped.
2013-02-22 09:48:56 AM  
1 votes:
Stickler stuck by stickler.

/"hoist with his own petard' is so 16th Century.
2013-02-22 09:46:12 AM  
1 votes:
He voted for Obama. Piss on him.
2013-02-22 09:41:19 AM  
1 votes:
The loonie and the dollar are at parity. The import tax would have remained the same. You suck. You suck. You suck.
 
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