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(Uncrunched)   "A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today. And when I didn't do what she wanted, she simply took my boat and asked me to leave"   (uncrunched.com) divider line 471
    More: Asinine, Department of Homeland Security, US dollar, CAD  
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27108 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 09:40:45 AM  
24.media.tumblr.com


All I could think of.
 
2013-02-22 09:41:19 AM  
The loonie and the dollar are at parity. The import tax would have remained the same. You suck. You suck. You suck.
 
2013-02-22 09:42:33 AM  
Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.
 
2013-02-22 09:43:09 AM  
When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.
 
2013-02-22 09:43:32 AM  
Should have called a real law enforcement agent to report the robbery at gunpoint.
 
2013-02-22 09:44:00 AM  
He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.
 
2013-02-22 09:44:31 AM  
When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.
 
2013-02-22 09:44:40 AM  
I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.
 
2013-02-22 09:45:27 AM  
If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.
 
2013-02-22 09:45:35 AM  
i14.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 09:45:55 AM  
People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.
 
2013-02-22 09:46:01 AM  
So; what you are saying is; you spotted what you thought was a clerical error, and refused to sign a binding legal document because of said error?

And as a result of this decision; the item in question was ceased by the newest, quite possibly most bloated, department of the government?

/ go ahead, get that lawyer; make the department of homeland security's day, punk.
 
2013-02-22 09:46:12 AM  
He voted for Obama. Piss on him.
 
2013-02-22 09:47:05 AM  

Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.


You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?
 
2013-02-22 09:47:08 AM  

untaken_name: I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.


Vagrancy.
 
2013-02-22 09:48:00 AM  

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


No need for a lawyer. A customs broker will do the trick and is much cheaper.
 
2013-02-22 09:48:14 AM  

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.
 
2013-02-22 09:48:14 AM  
I would say the man has a big court case on his hands to get the boat back, seizing without probable cause because the agent (if it was an agent and not some thief posing as one; post leaves out a few details such as where the seizing took place (the name of the border crossing) and the woman's badge number) didn't understand the paperwork.
 
2013-02-22 09:48:20 AM  

untaken_name: I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.


Malicious and intentional buoyancy.
 
2013-02-22 09:48:56 AM  
Stickler stuck by stickler.

/"hoist with his own petard' is so 16th Century.
 
2013-02-22 09:49:09 AM  
Sadly, the fact is that as an American citizen you have a Constitutional right to leave the country, and a similar right to enter the country, but that right doesn't extend to your stuff. The Customs laws go back to the earliest days of the Republic, and some of the Supreme Court cases ruling that they can trump due process rights are now 200 years old. This isnt just a war on terror thing, although that hardly helped.
 
2013-02-22 09:50:20 AM  

Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.


This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.
 
2013-02-22 09:50:30 AM  
"It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter," she said.

Official motto of the DHS (Department of Geheime Sicherheitsschauspiel).
 
2013-02-22 09:50:38 AM  

untaken_name: I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.


Going up a creek without a paddle
 
2013-02-22 09:51:21 AM  
K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.
 
2013-02-22 09:52:08 AM  
www.wired.com
 
2013-02-22 09:53:36 AM  

ck1938: He voted for Obama. Piss on him.


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-22 09:54:27 AM  
Should've been a simple matter of making the change in ink, initialing the change, and signing the document. Done. To the guy writing this article, good fortune with all of whatever the deal is.
 
2013-02-22 09:55:10 AM  
I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.
 
2013-02-22 09:56:17 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".
 
2013-02-22 09:56:22 AM  

AxemRed: When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.


As much of a biatch as this DHS drone was being, she probably would have tried to hit him with attempting to alter a federal document.
 
2013-02-22 09:56:58 AM  

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


That, in itself, is an indictment of the system.
 
2013-02-22 09:57:10 AM  
They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:16 AM  
Your meme is bad and you should feel bad.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:31 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.




Isn't that the story of the 2000 presidential election?
 
2013-02-22 09:58:36 AM  
He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:37 AM  

untaken_name: I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.


Illegal entrance into the country.
 
2013-02-22 09:59:31 AM  

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


That's an awesome way to say, "The government unfairly impounded my property."

Boot licker.
 
2013-02-22 10:00:42 AM  
Douche bag with a boat acts like a douche bag and gets boat taken away until he signs a farking form............
 
2013-02-22 10:00:49 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.
 
2013-02-22 10:03:43 AM  
A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today. And when I didn't do what she wanted she simply took my boat and asked me to leave.

Thanks, Obama.
 
2013-02-22 10:04:02 AM  
Three possibilities here, none of which include this once new boat owner getting his boat back.

1. Boat is placed in a government auction.

2. Boat is transferred to a federal marine division.

3. Boat is transferred to a military moral office and rented out to DOD personnel.

Should have just made a hand written change to the document. Which anyone could have done and signed the blasted paper.  But nooooo this crusader wanted to be superman.
 
2013-02-22 10:05:48 AM  
FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.
 
2013-02-22 10:05:53 AM  
Pedant loses boat due to minor clerical error.  Film at 11.
 
2013-02-22 10:06:28 AM  

ModernLuddite: The loonie and the dollar are at parity. The import tax would have remained the same. You suck. You suck. You suck.


This. Maybe assburgers sufferers shouldn't buy boats?
 
2013-02-22 10:07:10 AM  

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


But he's not an amateur.
Didn't you read?
He has a blog!!!
 
2013-02-22 10:07:50 AM  
A whole lot of placating the bureaucracy going on in this thread.

/there actually is a matter of legal principle in the stance he took
//but it i so much easier to just obey isn't it?
 
2013-02-22 10:07:59 AM  
So in other words some douchebag has no idea how the world works?  I went into this story hoping to have sympathy for the victim, but honestly, he's a farking idiot.  She wasn't looking for a bribe, she wasnt willing to spend time or risk punishment for trying to correct a problem that was not her farking problem..

SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

/seriously fark this guy.
 
2013-02-22 10:08:06 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.


Sorry about your boat, dude.
Let it go, it is gone.
BTW, when/where is the auction.
Might be interested,,,

/not sure you can ever remove DHS cooties though
 
2013-02-22 10:08:34 AM  

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


So?  Now property rights are relative to the item in question?

The guy acted like a douche, but he had a point and the officer could be seen as violating authority.  We only have his side of the story though so I wonder what really happened.

I'm guessing some sort of smuggling charge will be concocted to seize the boat and he'll have to go through a lot of hoops to reclaim it.  Happens a lot.
 
2013-02-22 10:08:50 AM  
People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.
 
2013-02-22 10:08:57 AM  

GORDON: GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.

That's an awesome way to say, "The government unfairly impounded my property."

Boot licker.


The DHS is out there defending our borders from Mexican invaders and there are traitors like you in here disparaging the hard work they do.  When the Amero happens, I hope you realize what you've done.
 
2013-02-22 10:09:20 AM  
More of Obama destroying the Constitution!

Afterall, it's what he said in his inauguration speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG2pUiVou4A
 
2013-02-22 10:09:24 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.


...he seems like the kind of guy who would rather take the boat back by force than give them another cent.  Of course, that translates into him sitting on his ass complaining while his boat eventually gets auctioned off to pay for the storage fees, so.
 
2013-02-22 10:09:58 AM  
Was it form 27B stroke 6?

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-22 10:10:41 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.


How do you feel about gunning them up?
The feds just bought whole big truckloads of guns and ammo.
 
2013-02-22 10:10:42 AM  

untaken_name: Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".


Exactly.  Signing a document you know to be false is a bad thing.

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


The problem is that the value on the form was wrong.
 
2013-02-22 10:10:42 AM  

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


It was his boat. He paid for it. If you are going to trivialize his problem because he has some money, then you also have to admit that your problems are trivial for the sole reason that there is someone worse off than you.
 
2013-02-22 10:11:03 AM  

The Snow Dog: Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.

Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.


Wow, that's crooked. If I poached a guy like they poached your friend, not only would he have been found not guilty but the judge would've wrung me out like a wet facecloth and hung me over the fence.
 
2013-02-22 10:11:36 AM  
Some people in this world just don't get that you have to pick your battles.  Because not everything is worth fighting for.
 
2013-02-22 10:11:36 AM  
Am I supposed to feel sorry for this guy?
 
2013-02-22 10:11:50 AM  
If he would have bought a boat made in the good ol' U.S. of A. he wouldn't have this problem.  This is what happens when you buy from commie ferringers.
 
2013-02-22 10:11:59 AM  
Also, there was no cover on his TPS report. That's a seizing right there.
 
2013-02-22 10:12:10 AM  

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


Seriously? You think he is being OC because he didn't want to legally and bindingly attest to information on a FEDERAL document that he knew was incorrect? It isn't like he asked her to re-draft the entire document. All he wanted was to either a) change USD to CAD or b) change the amount so that it reflected the correct amount.

If you lived in the US and were purchasing a home in CA for USD $250,000 and the mortgage documents mistakenly listed the sale price as USD $254,750 (CAD$254,750 is what US$250k converts to) wouldn't you want that corrected? Or are you cool with legally agreeing to pay almost $5k extra all because of a currency notation error?
 
2013-02-22 10:12:34 AM  
All your boats are belong to us.
 
2013-02-22 10:13:00 AM  

dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.


If America is no longer the greatest country on Earth, then what is?
 
2013-02-22 10:13:03 AM  

SurelyShirley: gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.

No need for a lawyer. A customs broker will do the trick and is much cheaper.


Came to say this. I work for a customs broker, we are MUCH cheaper than lawyers. Guy sounds like a tool.
 
2013-02-22 10:13:04 AM  

BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.


No, people like this should be digging that ditch with you.
Feeding on the government tit is an obligation not an entitlement.
 
2013-02-22 10:13:10 AM  

s1ugg0: Some people in this world just don't get that you have to pick your battles.  Because not everything is worth fighting for.


How was he to know that they wouldn't come back and tell him that he falsified information? Bureaucrats be arbitrary like dat.
 
2013-02-22 10:13:28 AM  

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


I've heard liberals express confusion and frustration over the willingness of middle and lower class conservative people to defend tax cuts for the wealthy. Your comment helped me to see in a new way that this reflects a really fundamental difference in the thinking or maybe even the intuitions of the two groups. For conservatives, it really is about the principle of the thing. It doesn't matter to most of them that they'll never have enough money to import a boat and risk encountering problems such as this. It still pisses them off that someone has been treated this way.

For liberals, on the other hand, everything is about class. When that square peg won't fit in a round hole, pound harder.
 
2013-02-22 10:14:54 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Am I supposed to feel sorry for this guy?


I have drawn the line.

I only recognize third world level problems.
First world richie rich hassles, not even on my radar.
 
2013-02-22 10:15:48 AM  

snocone: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.

Sorry about your boat, dude.
Let it go, it is gone.
BTW, when/where is the auction.
Might be interested,,,

/not sure you can ever remove DHS cooties though


I know of such a ritual that works on ocean going vessels:

Recast the bell, rechristen to a different name, get drunk on spiced rum and make out with the figurehead. All must be done within one watch.

\yes, regardless of what the figurehead is you as the Captain have to make out with it
 
2013-02-22 10:15:52 AM  

AxemRed: When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.


This is what I would have tried. Scratch it out, make a note, initial and date.

glass_ibis: I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.


If it didn't work, I'd follow it up with this.

BumpInTheNight: Should have called a real law enforcement agent to report the robbery at gunpoint.


Or this, if she was big enough of a biatch about it.

/ Friend had a car towed from a parking space where he had been legally parked and there was obviously no applicable "no parking" sign.
// When they refused to release the car, I told him to advise them he was going to report his car stolen.
/// They actually took his car back to the parking space for him. Every clown working at that place was probably already on probation and didn't want any part of it. CSB.
 
2013-02-22 10:16:32 AM  
"Sign zee papers old man!"

"I cannot!"

"Why not!"

"You have broken my hands!"

Bummer...
 
2013-02-22 10:16:41 AM  

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


So...are we for it or against it?

Narrator: The ocean. For several years, she has fascinated many. But will man ever float on her watery surface?
[cut to a shot of Adlai Stevenson at some sort of press conference]
Democratic hopeful Adlai Stevenson says so.

Stevenson: I have no objection to man boating on the sea.
[photographers snap several pictures]
[cut back to the ocean where a family fishes on its watery surface]
 
2013-02-22 10:16:43 AM  

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


I am leaning towards this thought as well.  The amount in US dollars is true, regardless what the manufacturer accepted, therefore he wouldn't be signing a lie.  If he used trade, Pesos and Canadian currency, the amount would still need to reflect the worth in US dollars for paperworks' sake.  I am sure going the other way the other country's paperwork would reflect their currency.  1%'s problems.
 
2013-02-22 10:16:48 AM  

PanicMan: dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.

If America is no longer the greatest country on Earth, then what is?


It's usually somewhere Scandinavian.

Although if you go north a bit, Canada's more or less in the top 10. Provided you don't mind being cold. :)
 
2013-02-22 10:16:51 AM  

BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.


Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."
 
2013-02-22 10:17:11 AM  
emilycswanson.files.wordpress.com
The customs guys later that day.
 
2013-02-22 10:17:30 AM  
FTFA: "Buying this boat was one of the worst decisions I've ever made, and the nightmare is only just starting."said every boat owner, ever.
 
2013-02-22 10:18:37 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


I took this course at a large eastern university, Dealing with Petty Tyrants 101
 
2013-02-22 10:18:46 AM  

Wrong Trousers: His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


Fark has a head start.  We're laughing at him now.
 
2013-02-22 10:18:59 AM  

The Snow Dog: Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.

Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.


I would not have signed it. Want to know why? Because the same government bureaucracy that listed the purchase price in USD rather than CAD would have later sent the IRS to this guy's house, auditing him and\or fining him for lying on a government form -  even though it was that same bureaucracy that made the mistake, not the purchaser.
 
2013-02-22 10:19:11 AM  

kendelrio: FTFA: "Buying this boat was one of the worst decisions I've ever made, and the nightmare is only just starting."said every boat owner, ever.


Always be the FRIEND of the guy with the boat. NEVER be the guy with the boat.

(I think Tim Ferriss said that)
 
2013-02-22 10:19:30 AM  

syberpud: The guy acted like a douche


How in the hell did he act like a douche? He was being asked to swear to something that wasn't true and he knew this. He could have possibly been prosecuted for signing it. People go to jail for lying to federal agents.


He did the right thing.
 
2013-02-22 10:20:24 AM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.

Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."


Why not have both people wear the first badge? Or both badges?
 
2013-02-22 10:20:48 AM  

Joe boater: Should have just made a hand written change to the document. Which anyone could have done and signed the blasted paper. But nooooo this crusader wanted to be superman.


Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.

So many alternatives to going full retard and losing his boat.
 
2013-02-22 10:21:21 AM  
It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.
 
2013-02-22 10:21:52 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


Exactly. Always do this. That way, the United States wouldn't exist today.

/How do people forget that our country was essentially founded by terrorists who refused to comply with their legal government?
//Blindly following authority "gets you whatever this is". Fark authority - unless it makes sense.
 
2013-02-22 10:22:22 AM  

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?


You do realize the princples are governmental abuse of power,  property rights and due process, right?

It ode snto matter over what
 
2013-02-22 10:22:49 AM  

internut scholar: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche

How in the hell did he act like a douche? He was being asked to swear to something that wasn't true and he knew this. He could have possibly been prosecuted for signing it. People go to jail for lying to federal agents.


He did the right thing.


Yeah but following the rules is for douches in today's America.  And douches deserve to get taken advantage of right?
 
2013-02-22 10:23:18 AM  

internut scholar: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche

How in the hell did he act like a douche? He was being asked to swear to something that wasn't true and he knew this. He could have possibly been prosecuted for signing it. People go to jail for lying to federal agents.


He did the right thing.


"If I am allowed to change errors on this form or if I am presented with a form that is correct then I will sign which is your current request, that I sign that the form is correct and free from errors. If your position is that I must sign even if the form is not correct then would you sign something to that effect please?"
 
2013-02-22 10:23:56 AM  

Ehcks: Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.


You mean like he offered to do but wasn't allowed to? Yeah, that would have been a good idea. oh look FTA

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.
 
2013-02-22 10:24:00 AM  

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


Scumsuckingmaggotlawyers are great at creating systems that make them money/keep them employed.
 
2013-02-22 10:24:07 AM  
He's a douche. Sign the document and get your boat.

I'm sure you've done far worse.
 
2013-02-22 10:25:12 AM  

Flakeloaf: The Snow Dog: Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.

Wrong.

In college I was with a friend who got pulled over for a dwi 30 seconds after we left a bar parking lot. The cops, once they decided to cuff him and put him in the cruiser, asked me to get in the car and drive it back to the bar parking lot. I said, "No sir!" Now, if I had--you know as well as I do I would have ended up in jail that night. I probably could have lawyered up and fought tooth-and-nail and eventually gotten out of it, but it would've cost me.

Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.

Wow, that's crooked. If I poached a guy like they poached your friend, not only would he have been found not guilty but the judge would've wrung me out like a wet facecloth and hung me over the fence.


LOL, wut?  How long after leaving a bar do you become too drunk to drive?
 
2013-02-22 10:25:26 AM  
He took a knife to a gunfight.  He really, really should have taken a professional importer.
 
2013-02-22 10:25:52 AM  
And the Fark progressive response is-Somalian utopia something, something.
 
2013-02-22 10:26:00 AM  

jigger: Was it form 27B stroke 6?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 612x792]


3.bp.blogspot.com
Frowns on your shenanigans.
 
2013-02-22 10:26:06 AM  

syberpud: The guy acted like a douche,


I don't see the douche part.  The form was wrong he wasn't going to sign it.  You're an idiot if you would.  If later one some controversy about him "illegally importing a boat" came up later and it came out that he knew the form was wrong and signed it anyway you'd be the guy here saying "He was a douche for signing when he knew it was wrong".   Get over yourself.  He noticed the error and even explained how to correct it so they could move on past this and the DHS got all AUTHORITAH on him.
 
2013-02-22 10:26:16 AM  

fastfxr: He's a douche. Sign the document, pay the inevitable fine that arises from signing a government form that has incorrect information on it, and get your boat.

I'm sure you've done far worse.


Fixed that for you.

/Seriously, how are people overlooking this?
//A bureaucracy that would screw up the form in the first place will happily prosecute you for signing such a form, because even though the mistake was theirs, the form still said you verify that all information is correct
 
2013-02-22 10:26:34 AM  
Knowingly filing false information on a federal form is punishable by up to 5 years in prison.
 
2013-02-22 10:28:16 AM  
So the real lesson here is to buy American.
 
2013-02-22 10:29:31 AM  

Slam Dunkz: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche,

I don't see the douche part.  The form was wrong he wasn't going to sign it.  You're an idiot if you would.  If later one some controversy about him "illegally importing a boat" came up later and it came out that he knew the form was wrong and signed it anyway you'd be the guy here saying "He was a douche for signing when he knew it was wrong".   Get over yourself.  He noticed the error and even explained how to correct it so they could move on past this and the DHS got all AUTHORITAH on him.


This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.
 
2013-02-22 10:29:31 AM  

PanicMan: dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.

If America is no longer the greatest country on Earth, then what is?


Madagascar.

Safest country on earth.
 
2013-02-22 10:29:33 AM  

dready zim: Agent Smiths Laugh: BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.

Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."

Why not have both people wear the first badge? Or both badges?


Hmm, perhaps, but I think the onus lies mostly with the agent since the agent was performing a government duty in an official capacity, and is thus expected to perform said duty correctly, legally, and to the best of her ability. Though, it seems, the best of her ability isn't very good.

But this thread seems to lean heavily in the capitulation camp.

media-cache-ec0.pinterest.com
 
2013-02-22 10:29:42 AM  

tricycleracer: So the real lesson here is to buy American.


My takeaway from the story is to get out of 'Murikka as soon as possible.
 
2013-02-22 10:30:21 AM  

meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.


No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.
 
2013-02-22 10:32:24 AM  

Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.


Put down the crack pipe
 
2013-02-22 10:32:47 AM  

tricycleracer: So the real lesson here is to buy American.


Do you know why there aren't many boat builders left in the USA?

Hint, take a look around this place.
 
2013-02-22 10:32:58 AM  
Regardless of the situation, it is always a bad idea to sign paperwork that has errors or inaccuracies .
 
DGK
2013-02-22 10:33:36 AM  
If he had signed the paper with the wrong amount would it of caused further problems down the road? Like how much he had to pay to license it and stuff? Could this come out in some type of audit and he then gets accused of faking the form to hide money from the IRS?   Sorry but my first thought would be to sign the correct form - would of been easy for her to do.  She is just a idiot who is one brain cell away from crapping during a parade.
 
2013-02-22 10:34:19 AM  
I only read the first 30 posts or so, so this may already been said, but basically this amounts to a fortunate successful blogger making hay of a normal legitimate legal snafu that kept him from getting his way when he wanted it, the way he wanted it.

  And he already had something else to biatch about WRT his boat and this trumped that.

IANAL or a customs broker but... I believe it possible that this circumstance could be as simple the customs official tried to do the dumbass a favor and get him his goddamn boat without forcing him back through the bureaucratic engine of document reprocessing and replacement

Like a typical entitled biatch of our age his typical flaming blogger agenda was served by ginning up something to complain about, so he went with whining and wanking, riding the wave of blaming the due process needed to keep a complex society upright, honestly and safely managed by pointing at the time  a very important person was inconvenienced by its "failures"

Legal stuff so very primitive, unnecessary and obviously all the fault of big gubmint or all us other lesser humans
 
2013-02-22 10:35:05 AM  

pxlboy: Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.

Put down the crack pipe


No shiat. I'm socially liberal, with a mixture of conservative and liberal fiscal ideals, and this is not something to be giddy about; it's a sign of the failure of the government, and a warning sign.
 
2013-02-22 10:35:36 AM  

JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.


Stupidity, immaturity and bigotry are bipartisan.
 
2013-02-22 10:36:39 AM  

digitalrain: Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.

Seriously? You think he is being OC because he didn't want to legally and bindingly attest to information on a FEDERAL document that he knew was incorrect? It isn't like he asked her to re-draft the entire document. All he wanted was to either a) change USD to CAD or b) change the amount so that it reflected the correct amount.

If you lived in the US and were purchasing a home in CA for USD $250,000 and the mortgage documents mistakenly listed the sale price as USD $254,750 (CAD$254,750 is what US$250k converts to) wouldn't you want that corrected? Or are you cool with legally agreeing to pay almost $5k extra all because of a currency notation error?


Agree, especially when you are talking about a boat with a price tag well north of 500,000
 
2013-02-22 10:38:00 AM  
If he had bought an American make hole in the water to throw money in, he wouldn't have had to sound like such a whiny biatch.
 
2013-02-22 10:38:30 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Knowingly filing false information on a federal form is punishable by up to 5 years in prison.


My guess is the form in question was the invoice from the manufacturer showing the CAD which would not be a federal document. Customs people are actually pretty easy to deal with as long as you don't piss them off.
 
2013-02-22 10:38:49 AM  
Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.


I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.
 
2013-02-22 10:39:35 AM  
Bureaucrats making sure that people dot every i and cross every t: perfectly understandable, they are just doing their job.
Someone making sure that bureaucrats dot every i and cross every t: NO BOAT FOR YOU!
 
2013-02-22 10:39:57 AM  

Urmuf Hamer: I only read the first 30 posts or so, so this may already been said, but basically this amounts to a fortunate successful blogger making hay of a normal legitimate legal snafu that kept him from getting his way when he wanted it, the way he wanted it.

  And he already had something else to biatch about WRT his boat and this trumped that.

IANAL or a customs broker but... I believe it possible that this circumstance could be as simple the customs official tried to do the dumbass a favor and get him his goddamn boat without forcing him back through the bureaucratic engine of document reprocessing and replacement

Like a typical entitled biatch of our age his typical flaming blogger agenda was served by ginning up something to complain about, so he went with whining and wanking, riding the wave of blaming the due process needed to keep a complex society upright, honestly and safely managed by pointing at the time  a very important person was inconvenienced by its "failures"

Legal stuff so very primitive, unnecessary and obviously all the fault of big gubmint or all us other lesser humans


That's a bingo!
 
2013-02-22 10:40:00 AM  
I'm enjoying how the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" community is in here playing like they're rebels.  If you changed DHS to Marine Corps then who was in the wrong would turn 180 degrees.
 
2013-02-22 10:40:20 AM  

Rostin: GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.

I've heard liberals express confusion and frustration over the willingness of middle and lower class conservative people to defend tax cuts for the wealthy. Your comment helped me to see in a new way that this reflects a really fundamental difference in the thinking or maybe even the intuitions of the two groups. For conservatives, it really is about the principle of the thing. It doesn't matter to most of them that they'll never have enough money to import a boat and risk encountering problems such as this. It still pisses them off that someone has been treated this way.

For liberals, on the other hand, everything is about class. When that square peg won't fit in a round hole, pound harder.



You're not any closer to understanding liberals than you were yesterday.  You've just found a new way to demonize what you don't understand.

If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

Granted, this may not be a great model of how liberal and conservatives minds work.  But it does have the advantage of being about eleventy billion times closer to the truth than that crap you just vomited up.

It's really not that one side is suffering from some horrible character flaw such as greed, laziness or selfishness.  Both sides care deeply about ethical or moral principles.  They just don't agree on which principles are most important.
 
Ant
2013-02-22 10:40:57 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


...and when they come back and say you signed your name to a false statement, what do you do then?

This is not about a rich guy and his  farkingboat.
 
2013-02-22 10:41:41 AM  
 You want to save money?
SHUT DOWN THE DHS AND TSA.
We don't need them.
It's a farce that is sucking your money, and rights, and lives away.

Farking pants pooping cowards.
Stand up as Americans and tell your congress critters they are out of a job unless they restore their country back to pre 19/11/01 conditions.
What the fark is the matter with you people?

Oh, you're just going to lie back and think of the Queen?
 
2013-02-22 10:41:48 AM  
Rich people problems.
 
2013-02-22 10:44:11 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


This is the dumbest thing I've read here today.

In case you don't know, there are absolutely a ton of little laws that the police and DHS can/will use to stuff you up and bend you over if you deliberately do something as trivial as sign and swear to a form that's not completely correct.  It's simply common sense these days to be pedantic and precise when you are filling out things like this.  To do otherwise is stupid.

It's in the same vein as kids who study to be accountants in college, finish their years of schooling with debt piled up, intern to get some accounting experience, take the CPA exam, and find out that they can't get their certificate because that one time in freshman year they got hauled downtown and fined $100 for trying to use a fake ID, which counts as a "falsified document" on their record.

I'd personally have corrected the form and signed the corrected version.  That changes the situation from "won't sign, therefore seize" to "our process doesn't allow form corrections, what do we do?" in which case they'd either officially re-issue the form with the correction or (more likely) ignore it because it's too much trouble to deal with.  The big advantage consumers have in dealing with most TSA and customs folks is that they're government employees, and therefore a high number of them are lazy as hell.

This guy started out smart, but then got dumb.  I dunno what he expected to happen, maybe he thought they'd just say "oh well, never mind!".
 
2013-02-22 10:46:18 AM  

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.


Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.
 
2013-02-22 10:46:24 AM  

JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.


F*ckballs.  I can't stand all the f*cking morons on this site who think there's a difference between the political parties.  They're all out to screw us, and most of us sit here pointing fingers at each other.  Everyone here is more like each other than we are like them, and that's the f*cking truth.
 
2013-02-22 10:46:37 AM  
One thing that I've got to point out:  he wasn't dealing with the DHS proper, he was dealing with US Customs.  While they can be assholes, it's like that with EVERY Customs agency around the world.  It's not a post-9/11 Jackboot thing, or even an uniquely American thing.  He kept calling them "DHS" because when people hear "Homeland Security" they automatically make the connection with TSA.
 
2013-02-22 10:46:57 AM  
media.tumblr.com
"Hmmmmmm"


2.bp.blogspot.com

"Stop right there, I am confiscating your car. It's okay, I'm an insurance investigator"
 
Ant
2013-02-22 10:47:46 AM  

Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.


It's got nothing to do with liberalism. This liberal thinks this kind of shiat is asinine.
 
2013-02-22 10:48:02 AM  
I'm sure many have said it already (haven't read the comments), but why not just cross out the incorrect part, correct & initial it, and sign the form? Perfectly legit. I've done it before on official documents and contracts. So has just about anyone who has worked with contracts.
 
2013-02-22 10:48:06 AM  
ciberido:

It's really not that one side is suffering from some horrible character flaw such as greed, laziness or selfishness.  Both sides care deeply about ethical or moral principles.  They just don't agree on which principles are most important.

This is correct, but it will never gain traction because people need to believe that others have deep character flaws.  It makes us look better by comparison.
 
2013-02-22 10:48:51 AM  
What the boat may look like, and I would have soooo swiped "Buddy"
wom

coastalcraft.com
 
2013-02-22 10:49:17 AM  
Rostin:
I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.

I did it. I didn't like the lawyer, and I resented the fact that I did in fact pay $2000 for his counsel, BUT... I got my green card on the first try, and that was what was most important to me. Those fees they charge for the fingerprinting and "processing"? You pay those every time you need to apply, if you fail, if I remember correctly. So while I can't say you'll NEED a lawyer, I can say that I needed mine.

Most of what I paid for was this: Fill out EVERYTHING. Provide EXTRA data. In fact, flood them with as much data as you can, so they'll be so overwhelmed they'll pass your wife through because it'd be too much trouble to go through the stuff you gave them.

I'm only half-joking there. The forms themselves don't necessarily change, but the order in which you're supposed to file them does. Also take pictures of the pair of you in various places now, if you don't have any. Try to commingle your assets (shared bank accounts, shared address, bills that clearly come either to her name at your address or both your names, etc). Keep track of all your taxes, check stubs from your jobs, etc in one place so you can more easily start gathering the right documents when it comes time to start instead of saying "Oh crap. I didn't think you'd want my phone bill from 3 years ago!"

I'm just J. Random Alien here, but some of that might help. :)
 
2013-02-22 10:50:27 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: I would say the man has a big court case on his hands to get the boat back, seizing without probable cause because the agent (if it was an agent and not some thief posing as one; post leaves out a few details such as where the seizing took place (the name of the border crossing) and the woman's badge number) didn't understand the paperwork.


No, he has jack squat. He was importing a boat and refused to cooperate with the customs process. The boat was already in the possession of customs and they simply didn't let him have it for not finishing the paperwork. He already paid the taxes on it and the dollar value on the paper was really unimportant. If you literally have a government agent telling you it didn't matter and he signed it, then they tried to charge him with a crime for the incorrect numbers then that would be entrapment.

You don't just drive up to the border with a boat and say "here we are!" You have to arrange things with the Canadian government as well as the American. You have to get permission to export as well as import. The paper work can take days or weeks to be approved. That's why, like most people have pointed out, that trying to important a large and expensive item is not for amatuers and for professional import brokers.
 
2013-02-22 10:50:55 AM  

shoegaze99: I'm sure many have said it already (haven't read the comments), but why not just cross out the incorrect part, correct & initial it, and sign the form? Perfectly legit. I've done it before on official documents and contracts. So has just about anyone who has worked with contracts.


Other than the part in the article where he asks to do this and the DHS-customs official tells him he\she can't?

He could have just grabbed it out of her hands and done it himself, I suppose. I might have. Although the attitude that she showed to him  asking if he could do it makes me think she might have done something stupid at that point, like claiming that grabbing it out of her hands was "assaulting a federal officer" or something.
 
2013-02-22 10:50:56 AM  

This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.


As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.
 
2013-02-22 10:51:03 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm enjoying how the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" community is in here playing like they're rebels.  If you changed DHS to Marine Corps then who was in the wrong would turn 180 degrees.


Gah! I hate filling out Marine Corps forms. I can never remember how many o's  are in oorah, and the damned spell checker keeps changing it to Oprah.
 
2013-02-22 10:52:58 AM  

WireFire2: DarkSoulNoHope: I would say the man has a big court case on his hands to get the boat back, seizing without probable cause because the agent (if it was an agent and not some thief posing as one; post leaves out a few details such as where the seizing took place (the name of the border crossing) and the woman's badge number) didn't understand the paperwork.

No, he has jack squat. He was importing a boat and refused to cooperate with the customs process. The boat was already in the possession of customs and they simply didn't let him have it for not finishing the paperwork. He already paid the taxes on it and the dollar value on the paper was really unimportant. If you literally have a government agent telling you it didn't matter and he signed it, then they tried to charge him with a crime for the incorrect numbers then that would be entrapment.

You don't just drive up to the border with a boat and say "here we are!" You have to arrange things with the Canadian government as well as the American. You have to get permission to export as well as import. The paper work can take days or weeks to be approved. That's why, like most people have pointed out, that trying to important a large and expensive item is not for amatuers and for professional import brokers.


Customs!?  Why should a FREE CITIZEN have to deal with such things?  Truly, the JACKBOOTED THUGS have won.  I weep for America.   Weep I say!
 
2013-02-22 10:53:31 AM  

Molavian: JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.

F*ckballs.  I can't stand all the f*cking morons on this site who think there's a difference between the political parties.  They're all out to screw us, and most of us sit here pointing fingers at each other.  Everyone here is more like each other than we are like them, and that's the f*cking truth.


Amen.  Nowadays when anyone on the Internet or in person identifies themselves as a member of any party, or tries to describe political ideologies like "liberal" or "conservative" as if they were describing types of fruit in a grocery store, I can pretty much assume they're delusional, gullible, or emotionally needy.

People want to badly to belong to something that they'll join up with the first group that cons them into it, and separating them from it after that is like deprogramming a cult member.
 
2013-02-22 10:53:36 AM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.

Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."


I really don't understand.  The shipper has to sign a document stating "this is exactly what I am shipping" the receiver must sign a document stating the exact same thing.  Those documents must match.  You don't want the receiver to lie by signing a form that isn't true, but you are fine with the customs agent lying by filing false paperwork?  If you want to be pedantic about it, fine - the system worked exactly like it was meant to and everyone should go to bed happy knowing that the letter of the law was followed.
 
2013-02-22 10:53:47 AM  

ciberido: Rostin: GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.

I've heard liberals express confusion and frustration over the willingness of middle and lower class conservative people to defend tax cuts for the wealthy. Your comment helped me to see in a new way that this reflects a really fundamental difference in the thinking or maybe even the intuitions of the two groups. For conservatives, it really is about the principle of the thing. It doesn't matter to most of them that they'll never have enough money to import a boat and risk encountering problems such as this. It still pisses them off that someone has been treated this way.

For liberals, on the other hand, everything is about class. When that square peg won't fit in a round hole, pound harder.


You're not any closer to understanding liberals than you were yesterday.  You've just found a new way to demonize what you don't understand.


Yeah, yeah. I was just being an asshole. In all seriousness, I've found Jonathan Haidt's popular-level articles about Moral Foundations Theory to be very helpful in this connection. And now that I've demonstrated that I really do know better, my behavior is revealed to be all the more shameful. :)
 
2013-02-22 10:53:54 AM  

oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.


And as has been repeated before, do you think that a bureaucracy that would have screwed up the currency on the form in the first place would hesitate for one second to turn around and fine this guy later for knowingly signing a federal form that contained invalid information?

The blogger wasn't nitpicking over the amount; he was nitpicking over the fact that the government got the form wrong  and had he signed it more than likely would have later come back to punish  him for their mistake.
 
2013-02-22 10:55:12 AM  
/rant on

I have enjoyed boating on Lake Michigan for over five years now.  I have a 115hp Johnson that I maintain and it has never given me any problems.  I paid 2,500 for it along with the boat it came with (17ft Starcraft)...what I don't understand is all this biatching about how owning a boat sucks. Just because your broke ass doesn't live on the best freshwater lake in the world doesn't mean the rest of us don't know how to take care of a boat.

/rant off
 
2013-02-22 10:55:38 AM  
twimg0-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-02-22 10:56:01 AM  
I'm almost entirely certain that the people asserting that, "This idiot douchebag should have just done what he was told to do, he deserves it," would be the EXACT same group of people saying, "This douchebag should have obeyed the verbiage on the form, he deserves it," if he wound up getting in trouble for signing an incorrect document.
 
2013-02-22 10:56:27 AM  

digitalrain: AxemRed: When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.

As much of a biatch as this DHS drone was being, she probably would have tried to hit him with attempting to alter a federal document.


Altering it before signing isnt illegal. Both parties must agree though.
 
2013-02-22 10:57:52 AM  

oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.


The boat easily costs > 500,000CAD.  At today's exchange rate, that is 488,000USD or a difference of 12K.  They are asking him to value it at 500K USD vs. 488K.  A bit more than "nipicking over cents"  It's a yacht, not a diet coke
 
2013-02-22 10:59:07 AM  

xaratherus: oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.

And as has been repeated before, do you think that a bureaucracy that would have screwed up the currency on the form in the first place would hesitate for one second to turn around and fine this guy later for knowingly signing a federal form that contained invalid information?

The blogger wasn't nitpicking over the amount; he was nitpicking over the fact that the government got the form wrong  and had he signed it more than likely would have later come back to punish  him for their mistake.


Good point. The boat company SHOULD have supplied a US-dollar invoice. Most companies up here do that when selling to the US.
 
2013-02-22 10:59:43 AM  
And this is the same caring bureaucracy that we trust to make health care work.  And save social security.  And protect our borders.
 
2013-02-22 11:00:07 AM  
Why didn't he buy a 'Murican boat. U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.
 
2013-02-22 11:00:25 AM  

Snarfangel: Rapmaster2000: I'm enjoying how the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" community is in here playing like they're rebels.  If you changed DHS to Marine Corps then who was in the wrong would turn 180 degrees.

Gah! I hate filling out Marine Corps forms. I can never remember how many o's  are in oorah, and the damned spell checker keeps changing it to Oprah.


I cannot stand here and listen to traitors disparage our men and women in uniform who are out there protecting our freedom.   How do you think they feel hearing people on the internet criticize them?  That's why I always support our COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF when America is at war.
 
2013-02-22 11:01:12 AM  
I would not have signed as well, for the reasons people have already stated.

That does not mean the author wasn't the douchebag in this story.  The drone had no ability to alter policy.  He needed to either accept that and make arrangements to wait for an opportunity to speak with someone who could, hire a professional who knows how to navigate the import bureaucracy, or just not be a douchebag.  She got excited?  Damn well bet your ass she did after you acted like a douchebag.  Sucks to be a douchebag, douchebag.
 
2013-02-22 11:02:12 AM  
DHS: "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter"

Right. It's just a federal crime. NBD.
I mean, sure, it can be used as "evidence" to justify some other search, seizure or fishing expedition.
But, you're probably already guilty of a few other such crimes, so what's one more?
 
2013-02-22 11:02:25 AM  
This blows my mind, that this guy is getting no sympathy. If he'd "just gone along with it" sooner or later that clerical error would have been used to screw him in some other way by some other bureaucrat.

HURF DURF GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION IS BORING SO THEY CAN ROB PEOPLE NOW I STOPPED CARING
 
2013-02-22 11:02:52 AM  

AccuJack: Molavian: JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.

F*ckballs.  I can't stand all the f*cking morons on this site who think there's a difference between the political parties.  They're all out to screw us, and most of us sit here pointing fingers at each other.  Everyone here is more like each other than we are like them, and that's the f*cking truth.

Amen.  Nowadays when anyone on the Internet or in person identifies themselves as a member of any party, or tries to describe political ideologies like "liberal" or "conservative" as if they were describing types of fruit in a grocery store, I can pretty much assume they're delusional, gullible, or emotionally needy.

People want to badly to belong to something that they'll join up with the first group that cons them into it, and separating them from it after that is like deprogramming a cult member.


That's why I don't vote for the Republicrats or the Democans like the rest of the sheeple.  I'm a libertarian like Dr. Ron Paul.  I have my own ideas that can't fit in some box.  I'm a free thinker.  A loner.  A rebel.
 
2013-02-22 11:03:12 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.


On one hand, this is probably accurate... but just to play devils advocate, it might have been the one day of the year (or of her career) where she actually did something, rather than act as a glorified garage attendant exchanging keys for paperwork.  It could just be she was happy she actually had a job for that one day.
 
2013-02-22 11:03:40 AM  

pxlboy: Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.

Put down the crack pipe



Jealous cause I am smoking more than my fair share?

You got no crack, your moms on welfare. you can't afford none....

Want some?

SIKE!

www.mpshaw.co.uk
 
2013-02-22 11:05:21 AM  

xaratherus: Other than the part in the article where he asks to do this and the DHS-customs official tells him he\she can't?


That's not what he said:

"I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars ... The DHS agent didn't care about the error and told me to sign the form anyway. "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter," she said. I declined."

He was asking her to make changes to the document. She didn't care about making changes and just wanted him to sign. All he had to do was do it himself, manually. Based on his own account, he was not forbidden from doing so and was not told he couldn't, he just didn't do it, presumably because he wanted it done "officially" by the agent - which was unnecessary. As I said, I've done this before on official documents. It's no big deal.

He could have just grabbed it out of her hands and done it himself, I suppose

Do you think she kept a firm grip on it the entire time? He was there to sign the paperwork, so clearly the paperwork was in his possession at that point otherwise he couldn't have read and signed it. He could have easily initialed in the change when he had the paperwork and a pen there in his hands.
 
2013-02-22 11:05:56 AM  

WireFire2: DarkSoulNoHope:

No, he has jack squat. He was importing a boat and refused to cooperate with the customs process. The boat was already in the possession of customs and they simply didn't let him have it for not finishing the paperwork. He already paid the taxes on it and the dollar value on the paper was really unimportant. If you literally have a government agent telling you it didn't matter and he signed it, then they tried to charge him with a crime for the incorrect numbers then that would be entrapment.


Armchair lawyer much?

Back at you:  If he signed it, they'd be able to legally charge him with a crime, because he committed one, that of knowingly stating that incorrect information was true... they call that fraud, perjury, falsifying documents, and several other things depending on where you do it.  At the most basic level, he had a choice whether to commit the crime (however trivial) or not.  In order to have a hope of defense against that he'd have to prove he was forced or coerced to sign the document without any record of the conversation.  A jury wouldn't share his feelings about getting his boat, they'd say "Well, that was dumb." and find him guilty.

Also, if he just goes with it and doesn't get prosecuted for falsifying the document, he's stuck with that price forever, it's almost impossible to correct after the fact.  States use boat prices to calculate things like annual license fees and taxes too, so he might well be stuck paying extra for the boat forever.

He's still dumb, though.  I can almost hear him thinking "I won't sign this because it's wrong.  That'll force them to fix this broken system!".  Nope.
 
2013-02-22 11:06:37 AM  
never buy a boat or a pool. make really good friends with someone who has one or both. Unless of course you can afford to pay someone else to maintain them, but then again you're still better off burning $20 bills in the backyard.
 
2013-02-22 11:06:52 AM  
ciberido:
If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.
 
2013-02-22 11:07:35 AM  
i.imgur.com

Sounds like someone had a boaking accident.
 
2013-02-22 11:07:48 AM  

oldfarthenry: xaratherus: oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.

And as has been repeated before, do you think that a bureaucracy that would have screwed up the currency on the form in the first place would hesitate for one second to turn around and fine this guy later for knowingly signing a federal form that contained invalid information?

The blogger wasn't nitpicking over the amount; he was nitpicking over the fact that the government got the form wrong  and had he signed it more than likely would have later come back to punish  him for their mistake.

Good point. The boat company SHOULD have supplied a US-dollar invoice. Most companies up here do that when selling to the US.


The only reason for the dollar amount is to calculate duty.... which, since he doesn't mention it at all, I assume they weren't going to charge him. In that case it truly didn't matter what amount was written in that block, on a form that is going to spend all of its life sitting in a cardboard box next to Indy's ark.
 
2013-02-22 11:08:24 AM  
I'm seething with contempt for everybody who thinks this guy was wrong for not rolling over. You're all the people who were applauding when Padme said liberty dies with thundering applause.
 
2013-02-22 11:08:59 AM  
tricycleracer: Peasant loses boat due to minor clerical error.  Film at 11.

Fixed that for you from the Governmental perspective.

/Bonus points for proper use of Pedant, however.
//English has so many great words that we just don't use very well anymore.
 
2013-02-22 11:09:08 AM  

bluefox3681: And this is the same caring bureaucracy that we trust to make health care work.  And save social security.  And protect our borders.


DHS is not HHS - you can tell by the spelling.

// but if you're married to the idea, it's also the same bureaucracy that fights our wars
 
2013-02-22 11:09:31 AM  

Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.

The boat easily costs > 500,000CAD.  At today's exchange rate, that is 488,000USD or a difference of 12K.  They are asking him to value it at 500K USD vs. 488K.  A bit more than "nipicking over cents"  It's a yacht, not a diet coke


Exactly. I thought that was the point I made, but apparently my round number estimates were difficult to understand. Yours works better.
 
2013-02-22 11:09:39 AM  

untaken_name: I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.


How about "We think you were going to use it to smuggle drugs."  They keep your boat, and they don't have to prove anything.
 
2013-02-22 11:10:04 AM  

Ant: Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.

...and when they come back and say you signed your name to a false statement, what do you do then?

This is not about a rich guy and his  farkingboat.


Forget that, here is what happens:

Nothing, until he attempts to register/insure/sell. Then someone notices that number a and number b don't match. He must now get proof that number b is wrong, but then that means the number in the computer is wrong. Computers are not wrong, he must be wrong, so why are you disagreeing with computer? Your boat must be registered, but you didn't register it, go to that line and register it. That's odd, number a doesn't match number b, I can't click OK on the computer until number a matches number b. Look, go fix the numbers before coming here, to fix the numbers take your registration to line 6. You need your registration info before you can submit this form. Register in line 3. I'm sorry, but this office closes in 2 hours, so we won't take your forms now, come back on Wednesday. We are open from 10am to 3pm but we stop processing at 1pm so arrive early, its about a 2 hour wait. Excuse me, but is that your boat? Why isn't it registered, and is it Canadian? Are you carrying any drugs? Do you not mind if I do not search your boat? You are going to wait there a dog is on its way. The dog alerted, why did you hide something in there. Hands behind your back while we rip out your boats internals. This laptop is within 100 miles of the border and this boat is from Canada. We are going to confiscate these electronics unless you give us the password....
 
2013-02-22 11:10:28 AM  

joeskunk: This blows my mind, that this guy is getting no sympathy.


Oh, I totally sympathize with him. He got screwed by a drone mindlessly following bureaucracy. The woman was an idiot, no question.

Still think, though, that based on his account he handled it wrong when he could have easily addressed it right there on the spot, no muss, no fuss, without ever having to raise a stink.
 
2013-02-22 11:10:59 AM  

Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: oldfarthenry: This Looks Fun: Mmm... I don't think it's that simple. If it's like California, they'll want to know the sale price so they know how much to charge you in property tax when you register it in state. So if the price says $550000(CA) and he actually paid $500000(US) then he's got to pay taxes on an extra $50k.

As repeated before, the yank dollar & canuck loonie have been hovering around par with each other for the last few years. This was nitpicking over cents.

The boat easily costs > 500,000CAD.  At today's exchange rate, that is 488,000USD or a difference of 12K.  They are asking him to value it at 500K USD vs. 488K.  A bit more than "nipicking over cents"  It's a yacht, not a diet coke


Those numbers would have been reversed at the time of sale (the loonie was above par then). I'd prefer to be a few k off then have a frickin' major investment confiscated - like a Diet Coke by a lunch room bully.
 
2013-02-22 11:11:15 AM  

Giltric: pxlboy: Giltric: It's a dude buying a boat and it got seized.

Fark libs love nothing more than scenarios like this where someone with more money than them have their property seized.

Odds are they were just as giddy about the property seizure as the homeland security jackbooted thug was.

Put down the crack pipe


Jealous cause I am smoking more than my fair share?

You got no crack, your moms on welfare. you can't afford none....

Want some?

SIKE!

[www.mpshaw.co.uk image 850x478]


It's "psyche" as in psyched you out.  Tricked you.
 
2013-02-22 11:11:54 AM  

Ace Rimmer: The only reason for the dollar amount is to calculate duty.... which, since he doesn't mention it at all, I assume they weren't going to charge him. In that case it truly didn't matter what amount was written in that block, on a form that is going to spend all of its life sitting in a cardboard box next to Indy's ark.


You're not referring to THIS part of TFA, are you? : My job was to show up and sign forms and then leave with Buddy (WA sales tax and registration fees come a week later).
 
2013-02-22 11:12:24 AM  
I hate rich people as much as the next person but this is bullshiat. He said in the comments that she wouldn't let him change the form, and she imo withheld information from her boss so she could take the boat.

Bullshiat.

I also hope that people who have guns and this kind of authority aren't making 9 dollar an hour or the theft will be through the roof. [I'm assuming it is.]
 
2013-02-22 11:15:53 AM  

Langdon Alger: never buy a boat or a pool. make really good friends with someone who has one or both. Unless of course you can afford to pay someone else to maintain them, but then again you're still better off burning $20 bills in the backyard.


Definitely on the boat, but as a pool owner I can say it's not that bad from a financial cost perspective.  I probably spend about $500 a year on chemicals, assorted fixes, and amortizing the cost of multi-year use equipment (robot vacuum, solar cover, winter cover).

The issue is time.  I probably spend about 4 hours a week doing something with it.  It's pressure washing the deck, scrubbing the walls, cleaning the vacuum, skimming, etc..  The opportunity cost is what gets you.
 
2013-02-22 11:16:02 AM  
Rostin:  I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.

Pro tip: don't fark around with immigration forms. If you fark it up, it can have serious consequences that can haunt you and your wife for a very long time, as you already suggested. I went through the visa process with the State Dept and permanent residency with USCIS with help of an immigration attorney. It wasn't cheap, but it was money well spent.
 
2013-02-22 11:16:42 AM  

Amurica...Fark Ya!: /rant on

I have enjoyed boating on Lake Michigan for over five years now.  I have a 115hp Johnson that I maintain and it has never given me any problems.  I paid 2,500 for it along with the boat it came with (17ft Starcraft)...what I don't understand is all this biatching about how owning a boat sucks. Just because your broke ass doesn't live on the best freshwater lake in the world doesn't mean the rest of us don't know how to take care of a boat.

/rant off


If you live next to Lake Erie, why boat on Lake Michigan?

/ Northern Ohioan
// Cedar Point rules
 
2013-02-22 11:17:21 AM  

Aidan: kendelrio: FTFA: "Buying this boat was one of the worst decisions I've ever made, and the nightmare is only just starting."said every boat owner, ever.

Always be the FRIEND of the guy with the boat. NEVER be the guy with the boat.

(I think Tim Ferriss said that)


 If it floats, flies, or f#cks, rent it.
 
2013-02-22 11:17:22 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


At least wait until 1984 happens before you start acting this way. Geez man.
 
2013-02-22 11:17:38 AM  
As usual, I took the "or else" option. And the bastards stole my boat.
I'll probably get droned now, too.


Oh f*cking waaahh. You noticed an error, thought it was important enough to correct before proceeding, and it turns out things aren't as simple as you thought. That f*cking sucks, and I really feel for you. Up until you decided to go all conspiracy nutter and think that you're important enough for domestic spying. I hope you get your boat and the matter is settled, but please stop pretending to be a persecuted victim and inferring that you're now on some list of political troublemakers. You got screwed by a government error. Welcome to America, dude. There's nothing more here to it than that.
 
2013-02-22 11:18:18 AM  

Obiwontaun: Marcus Aurelius: Knowingly filing false information on a federal form is punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

My guess is the form in question was the invoice from the manufacturer showing the CAD which would not be a federal document. Customs people are actually pretty easy to deal with as long as you don't piss them off.


well that clears everything up
 
2013-02-22 11:19:20 AM  

orclover: She wasn't looking for a bribe, she wasnt willing to spend time or risk punishment for trying to correct a problem that was not her farking problem..SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.


Congratulations on being part of the problem I referenced upthread. Giving situational authority over perceived "rich guys" to angry, low-paid, chip on their shoulder, bureau-tards like this woman (and presumably you) is a recipe for this sort of abuse. "Spending time correcting a problem" is this woman's job, but like most low-level functionaries she'd rather focus on petty vengeance for how her life has worked out so far. Blaming the boat guy for not wanting to attest to something that he knew was false is beyond foolish.
 
2013-02-22 11:20:41 AM  

PanicMan: dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.

If America is no longer the greatest country on Earth, then what is?


There doesn't have to be a greatest.  There can be a "least sucky".
 
2013-02-22 11:20:49 AM  

ERNesbitt: ciberido:
If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.


I would endorse the ERNesbitt's statement - it's that whole 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome' question.  Admittedly, I'm biased as someone who tends towards the conservative side.

But back to TFA in question here, I think the owner should have made an amendmnent to the document, initialed and dated said amendment and seen what happened from there.  From where I sit, worst case outcome of that would have been the outcome that he's dealing with now - they would have held the boat until the proper invoice from the shipper of record was supplied.

Worth a shot in my opinion.  As for the fine and ass-pain he'll be going through now, remember what BOAT stands for - Break Out Another Thousand (dollars is implied).
 
2013-02-22 11:21:04 AM  
It sounds like he did everything right and the overzealous agent should be fired. Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?

And let me just tell you that after years of working with a lot of DHS employees this doesn't surprise me one bit. Of all the agencies they seem to have the highest amount of farktards. A buddy of mine who works for a sensitive governemt agency has had run-ins with some of the same bozos I have. When I asked him what the deal was he told me that whenever they have someone who is a problem to work with but don't want to deal with the onerous process of firing them (or it's just that they're difficult dickbags which in and of itself isn't fireable) they literally arrange to give the problem person a promotion to a better job in DHS to get them out of their hair.
 
2013-02-22 11:21:09 AM  

internut scholar: tricycleracer: So the real lesson here is to buy American.

Do you know why there aren't many boat builders left in the USA?

Hint, take a look around this place.


Hmm, from the tone of the article, this guys is the first person ever to import a boat from Canada.
 
2013-02-22 11:22:27 AM  

BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.


It's sad that so many people think being honest and refusing to lie is being difficult. If he had lied, signed the paper and then been prosecuted for it you people would have called him stupid for that. There's no winning. At least he's a man of integrity.
 
2013-02-22 11:22:44 AM  

shoegaze99: Do you think she kept a firm grip on it the entire time? He was there to sign the paperwork, so clearly the paperwork was in his possession at that point otherwise he couldn't have read and signed it. He could have easily initialed in the change when he had the paperwork and a pen there in his hands.


I've edited my share of contracts in my time as well. I worked in the repossessions and total loss department for a major car finance company for a couple of years, and hand-corrected a number of mistakes on the various payoff documents.

In about 25% of those cases, the insurance company refused to accept the hand-written corrections and reissued the form with the correction made themselves before they would release the payoff to the financer.

Maybe she would have accepted it after he altered it. Maybe she would have stopped him or refused to accept it. Personally, I wouldn't have taken the chance.
 
2013-02-22 11:23:12 AM  
Some people leave swirling eddies of drama in their wake naturally
 
2013-02-22 11:23:32 AM  

mongbiohazard: Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?


Yes. Who else can afford to import a boat and doesn't have access to the internet!?
 
2013-02-22 11:24:15 AM  
Customs broker, lawyer, big brother, someone should have gone along with him to make this transaction.

Sorry, but when you are dealing with bureaucracy you're dealing with bullies. Have someone along who, if they can't actually assist in the moment, be able to back you up and witness what's going on so you have more of a leg to stand on.
 
2013-02-22 11:25:19 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: I would not have signed as well, for the reasons people have already stated.

That does not mean the author wasn't the douchebag in this story.  The drone had no ability to alter policy.  He needed to either accept that and make arrangements to wait for an opportunity to speak with someone who could, hire a professional who knows how to navigate the import bureaucracy, or just not be a douchebag.  She got excited?  Damn well bet your ass she did after you acted like a douchebag.  Sucks to be a douchebag, douchebag.


yeah, you're right... he should have signed it and just sucked it up when they charged him with perjury later and seized the boat anyway. that would have been a much better way to go.
 
2013-02-22 11:26:35 AM  

ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?



The 2.5th Amendment:  The right to float boats without having them seized for frivolous reasons shall not be impaired.
 
2013-02-22 11:28:27 AM  
What a pedantic little prick. Have we dug up his Fark handle yet?
 
2013-02-22 11:31:21 AM  

abhorrent1: He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.


So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.  When I go to a store and buy something and get my receipt, I'm done.  If some door nazi wants to see my receipt, he's going to be disappointed.  I paid for it and I will not show them my receipt unless they can prove to my satisfaction  they have good cause to  see it.  One reason the country has gone down the toilet is so many people just submit to whatever crap government imposes on them.
 
2013-02-22 11:31:27 AM  
Perhaps the DHS lady recognized the owner of the boat and decided she didn't like him or his attitude. After all, he does have a propensity for being an asshat and a troll.

/Karma is a biatch.
// It's still no excuse for government heavy-handedness.
 
2013-02-22 11:33:10 AM  

This Looks Fun: Ace Rimmer: The only reason for the dollar amount is to calculate duty.... which, since he doesn't mention it at all, I assume they weren't going to charge him. In that case it truly didn't matter what amount was written in that block, on a form that is going to spend all of its life sitting in a cardboard box next to Indy's ark.

You're not referring to THIS part of TFA, are you? : My job was to show up and sign forms and then leave with Buddy (WA sales tax and registration fees come a week later).


WA sales tax and registration fees are not US Customs duties....
The state of WA would have used the invoice to calculate sales tax and fees not his customs declaration.
 
2013-02-22 11:34:03 AM  

PaLarkin: abhorrent1: He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.

So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.  When I go to a store and buy something and get my receipt, I'm done.  If some door nazi wants to see my receipt, he's going to be disappointed.  I paid for it and I will not show them my receipt unless they can prove to my satisfaction  they have good cause to  see it.  One reason the country has gone down the toilet is so many people just submit to whatever crap government imposes on them.


Constitutional Tip:  There are no rights involved in shopping at Wal-Mart.  They offer low prices in exchange for receipt-checking.  If you are so opposed to receipt-checking, then you are free to shop at another store.
 
2013-02-22 11:34:12 AM  

internut scholar: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche

How in the hell did he act like a douche? He was being asked to swear to something that wasn't true and he knew this. He could have possibly been prosecuted for signing it. People go to jail for lying to federal agents.


He did the right thing.


He did the right thing, but sounded like he was being a bit of a douche about it (it's the tone).  Then again, that is a value judgement and I wasn't there so I don't know how the situation actually went.

Being confrontational to someone in authority requires a deft hand or you could end up in a worse situation. You could be dealing with a petty tyrant who decides they want to have a good story to tell the wife (husband) later about how they "put that guy in his place".
 
2013-02-22 11:34:21 AM  

PaLarkin: abhorrent1: He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.

So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.  When I go to a store and buy something and get my receipt, I'm done.  If some door nazi wants to see my receipt, he's going to be disappointed.  I paid for it and I will not show them my receipt unless they can prove to my satisfaction  they have good cause to  see it.  One reason the country has gone down the toilet is so many people just submit to whatever crap government imposes on them.


Yes, refusing to show your receipt to the geriatric man at Sam's Club is what a true patriot does.

It's amusing at how great we have it in America that something like this is seen as "civil disobedience".
 
2013-02-22 11:34:24 AM  

Braindeath: I hate rich people as much as the next person liberal Farker, but this is bullshiat. He said in the comments that she wouldn't let him change the form, and she imo withheld information from her boss so she could take the boat.

Bullshiat.

I also hope that people who have guns and this kind of authority aren't making 9 dollar an hour or the theft will be through the roof. [I'm assuming it is.]


FTFY

So if you become rich someday, will you still hate your life as much as you do now?
 
2013-02-22 11:34:55 AM  

glass_ibis: I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.


It definitely is a crime to make false statements with intent to deceive a U.S. government officer.  People get nailed on that one all the time.  Attempting to compel someone to make such a false statement probably is illegal too, but the chance that the DHS officer gets anything more than an brief off-the-record lecture in the back room are nil, even if boat guy wins his boat back.
 
2013-02-22 11:35:10 AM  

ERNesbitt: Amurica...Fark Ya!: /rant on

I have enjoyed boating on Lake Michigan for over five years now.  I have a 115hp Johnson that I maintain and it has never given me any problems.  I paid 2,500 for it along with the boat it came with (17ft Starcraft)...what I don't understand is all this biatching about how owning a boat sucks. Just because your broke ass doesn't live on the best freshwater lake in the world doesn't mean the rest of us don't know how to take care of a boat.

/rant off

If you live next to Lake Erie, why boat on Lake Michigan?

/ Northern Ohioan
// Cedar Point rules


Well for one, Lake Michigan doesn't have a significant tributary that has caught on fire multiple times
 
2013-02-22 11:35:16 AM  

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


It should be simple enough for anyone to do.
 
2013-02-22 11:35:19 AM  

AccuJack: Molavian: JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.

F*ckballs.  I can't stand all the f*cking morons on this site who think there's a difference between the political parties.  They're all out to screw us, and most of us sit here pointing fingers at each other.  Everyone here is more like each other than we are like them, and that's the f*cking truth.

Amen.  Nowadays when anyone on the Internet or in person identifies themselves as a member of any party, or tries to describe political ideologies like "liberal" or "conservative" as if they were describing types of fruit in a grocery store, I can pretty much assume they're delusional, gullible, or emotionally needy.

People want to badly to belong to something that they'll join up with the first group that cons them into it, and separating them from it after that is like deprogramming a cult member.


Because the two parties TOTALLY agree on stuff like gay rights and abortions.
 
2013-02-22 11:35:25 AM  
Rich people problems.  He also probably left out that he was a dick to the lady, which is why she happily drove off with the boat.  Right now I'm laughing at him.  HA HA HA.
 
2013-02-22 11:36:47 AM  

ggecko: More of Obama destroying the Constitution!

Afterall, it's what he said in his inauguration speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG2pUiVou4A


That was an incredibly bad video edit and you should feel bad.  Damn.
 
m00
2013-02-22 11:37:21 AM  
Maybe she wanted a new boat. I bet the DHS "lost" it.
 
2013-02-22 11:37:36 AM  

LargeCanine: gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.

That, in itself, is an indictment of the system.


Not really.  Moving expensive things across national borders has always been a challenge, pretty much everywhere.  Unless by "the system" you mean the system of having nation-states with borders.
 
2013-02-22 11:37:41 AM  

internut scholar: Do you know why there aren't many boat builders left in the USA?


And by the way, here's a huge list of U.S. boat builders:   http://www.fun-florida-getaways.com/boatmanufacturersusa.cfm
 
2013-02-22 11:38:27 AM  

PaLarkin: So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.


Hi.  Welcome to Fark.  To a certain (and rather large) subset of the population here, virtually every other person is already an asshole, and their status as such is a wholly immutable fact.  Any and all narratives must, by necessity, be altered to conform around this fixed point in reality.

static.someecards.com
 
2013-02-22 11:38:50 AM  

Raoul Eaton: Not really.  Moving expensive things across national borders has always been a challenge, pretty much everywhere.  Unless by "the system" you mean the system of having nation-states with borders.


You know how much paperwork you have to do to get a wooden horse into Troy?
 
2013-02-22 11:39:17 AM  

Loren: untaken_name: Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".

Exactly.  Signing a document you know to be false is a bad thing.

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.

The problem is that the value on the form was wrong.


Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian.  It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with.  Guy's a pedantic asshole without a boat.
 
2013-02-22 11:41:30 AM  
Hmmm... sound to me like the government employee was soliciting the individual to be complicit in a crime, to wit, knowingly make a false entry in a document with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the proper administration of a matter within the jurisdiction of a department or agency of the United States.
 And this is why you should audio record any interaction you have with a public employee while they are engaged in the execution of their duties, or claim to be doing so.  If it comes down to being your word against theirs, you should do everything you can to make sure it's their word against their other words.
 
2013-02-22 11:41:46 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Loren: untaken_name: Except that if your signature is on the document with information on it and you told the government official that you knew the information was incorrect before you signed it, they could nail you for lying. Do you think that the agency which would confiscate a boat over this wouldn't stoop to prosecuting you for lying on an official document? Maybe they took his boat because they were pissed that he didn't fall for their little "mistake".

Exactly.  Signing a document you know to be false is a bad thing.

Wrong Trousers: They want to know the value in US dollars and only US dollars because the exchange rate changes over time. They don't care about the actual currency he used - Mexican pesos, Chinese yuan or Canadian dollars. He should be thankful that the agent wasn't too fussy about the precise exchange rate he used. Instead he goes obsessive compulsive and loses his boat. He will spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer to haggle over a few dollars and to prove a meaningless point. His lawyer will grit his teeth, solve the problem, and share a laugh with a few close friends about his idiot client.

The problem is that the value on the form was wrong.

Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian.  It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with.  Guy's a pedantic asshole without a boat.


Hint: The currency listed affects the value
 
2013-02-22 11:42:05 AM  

Rostin: It still pisses them off


Oh honey, Conservatives be mad about everything.
 
2013-02-22 11:43:50 AM  

internut scholar: Ehcks: Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.

You mean like he offered to do but wasn't allowed to? Yeah, that would have been a good idea. oh look FTA

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.


Notice that his actual argument isn't that the amount they put down was wrong, just that they amount they had wasn't converted to be the currency he paid with, but rather the currency that the organization happens to deal with.
 
2013-02-22 11:45:55 AM  

bluefox3681: And this is the same caring bureaucracy that we trust to make health care work.  And save social security.  And protect our borders.


Amen bluefox.  Give yourself a cigar unless they've been banned.  It never ceases to amaze me how many farking idiots out there trust this government to get anything right.
 
2013-02-22 11:47:46 AM  
I read the story, then had to check and see what other FARK-ers thought about the matter.

It's not about whether or not the guy is rich -- as so many seem to think. It's about the abuse of power -- kind of like the guards at airports these days.

Had he signed the incorrect document, he'd have been lying. With DHS, I have no doubt that it would have come back eventually to bite him in the arse. In court, he'd have a hard time explaining why he deliberately signed an incorrect document willingly.

I've seen court trials before, concerning similar things and the judge tends to berate the signer while the prosecutor questions the signers' integrity and no matter what excuse given, the judgment can go against him. (You see this a lot with promissory notes written out between citizens, especially boy friend and girl friend.)

At the very least, corrections could have been made, a witnessing note attached by the agent and copies sent to the necessary parties. That's done all the time in the business world.

I suspect we have an overzealous DHS agent there. Plus DHS seems to have more power than cops, with much less accountability.

Now, he'll have to let his lawyers handle the mess and wind up forking out a bunch more money for someone else's mistakes.
 
2013-02-22 11:48:43 AM  

Slam Dunkz: syberpud: The guy acted like a douche,

I don't see the douche part.  The form was wrong he wasn't going to sign it.  You're an idiot if you would.  If later one some controversy about him "illegally importing a boat" came up later and it came out that he knew the form was wrong and signed it anyway you'd be the guy here saying "He was a douche for signing when he knew it was wrong".   Get over yourself.  He noticed the error and even explained how to correct it so they could move on past this and the DHS got all AUTHORITAH on him.


As usual there are many ITG's spouting off about what they would have done, from the basement with no boating or customs experience. The butthurt and whiney resentments of those that can't afford a custom boat or any other nice things is strong in this thread.
Get the f*ck over yourselves. They could have screwed him for signing a false document and may have had plans to seize it before it came through.

/should have hired a customs broker beforehand
 
2013-02-22 11:49:01 AM  

Kome: mongbiohazard: Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?

Yes. Who else can afford to import a boat and doesn't have access to the internet!?


/facepalm

Just having access to the internet doesn't mean anyone gives a shiat what you have to say. But because of who he is he has fans/followers/admirers who can ensure the story gets wider attention then just some dude buying a boat from his brother or something.

Is that really a difficult concept for you?
 
2013-02-22 11:50:54 AM  

xaratherus: shoegaze99: I'm sure many have said it already (haven't read the comments), but why not just cross out the incorrect part, correct & initial it, and sign the form? Perfectly legit. I've done it before on official documents and contracts. So has just about anyone who has worked with contracts.

Other than the part in the article where he asks to do this and the DHS-customs official tells him he\she can't?

He could have just grabbed it out of her hands and done it himself, I suppose. I might have. Although the attitude that she showed to him  asking if he could do it makes me think she might have done something stupid at that point, like claiming that grabbing it out of her hands was "assaulting a federal officer" or something.


It probably wasn't in her hands while he was reading it and preparing to sign.
 
2013-02-22 11:53:08 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.



What an idiot. I have less trouble carrying hunting rifles (3), dogs (2), and a travel trailer over the border than this dolt.
 
2013-02-22 11:54:08 AM  
 
2013-02-22 11:55:00 AM  

Rostin: Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.

I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.


Do it.  I have a friend that married someone from Poland and even with the lawyer's help it was a huge deal.  $2k is jack compared to the nightmare you'll have if your wife gets deported.
 
2013-02-22 11:55:56 AM  

inglixthemad: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.


What an idiot. I have less trouble carrying hunting rifles (3), dogs (2), and a travel trailer over the border than this dolt.


Probably because you aren't importing a half million dollar boat into the country that needs to be declared and properly recorded for tax purposes. You are probably just going hunting and need a couple of forms filled out along with your passport to get through. Just a bit different there hoss.
 
2013-02-22 11:56:09 AM  

Flakeloaf: K. One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


So the authorities get to do what they want, then it's up to you to spend more time and money convincing a court they were wrong.  If the court happens to find that that they were wrong, the worst that happens is the agency has to hand over some taxpayer money, issue an apology unbecoming a 1st grader, and pinky swear they won't do it again.

Yet some people wonder why others flat our distrust or loathe government officials.
 
2013-02-22 11:56:45 AM  

dittybopper: Molavian: ModernLuddite: Dick Gozinya: When we stop fighting for our principles, we truly are a bankrupt country.

You realize that you are talking about boat ownership, right?

That's why America is no longer the greatest country on earth.  That attitude right there.

This.

It's like owning property is now a *BAD* thing.


you dont own that obama does,
 
2013-02-22 11:57:41 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Stickler stuck by stickler.

/"hoist with his own petard' is so 16th Century.


We don't use that word anymore, it's insensitive to the water/potato heads of the world.
 
2013-02-22 11:59:15 AM  

s1ugg0: Some people in this world just don't get that you have to pick your battles.  Because not everything is worth fighting for.


Which is exactly why we have the problems we do.

We don't fight molehills and end up fighting mountains.
 
2013-02-22 11:59:39 AM  

Molavian: Rostin: Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.

I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.

Do it.  I have a friend that married someone from Poland and even with the lawyer's help it was a huge deal.  $2k is jack compared to the nightmare you'll have if your wife gets deported.


From some of the threads I've seen here on Fark, I imagine some guys (and girls) would find 2K a bargain to *have* their SO deported.
 
2013-02-22 11:59:47 AM  

Dr Dreidel: bluefox3681: And this is the same caring bureaucracy that we trust to make health care work.  And save social security.  And protect our borders.

DHS is not HHS - you can tell by the spelling.

// but if you're married to the idea, it's also the same bureaucracy that fights our wars


Yeah, because changing the acronym will make it all better.  And yes, the military is rife with inefficiencies and waste.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help!"
 
2013-02-22 12:00:49 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: BigLuca: People like this should wear a badge that says, "I am the most difficult person in the world, deal with me at your own risk," so people that have a choice in the matter can just walk away.

Hey, that's fine so long as the DHS agent has to wear a badge saying, "I am incompetent at my job and can't do arithmetic."


Don't they already wear a badge that says 'DHS'?  Why make them say it twice?
 
2013-02-22 12:01:38 PM  

Ace Rimmer: This Looks Fun: Ace Rimmer: The only reason for the dollar amount is to calculate duty.... which, since he doesn't mention it at all, I assume they weren't going to charge him. In that case it truly didn't matter what amount was written in that block, on a form that is going to spend all of its life sitting in a cardboard box next to Indy's ark.

You're not referring to THIS part of TFA, are you? : My job was to show up and sign forms and then leave with Buddy (WA sales tax and registration fees come a week later).

WA sales tax and registration fees are not US Customs duties....
The state of WA would have used the invoice to calculate sales tax and fees not his customs declaration.


Possibly; I can't be certain. I know with out-of-state cars, they use the title. I'm not sure if they'd use an invoice or a customs document. Either way, if I knew the price was wrong and I wasn't sure what the price would be for signing a wrong document, I too would wait for the corrected form. This incident does not make him look bad. It makes DHS look bad.
 
2013-02-22 12:01:48 PM  

China White Tea: I'm almost entirely certain that the people asserting that, "This idiot douchebag should have just done what he was told to do, he deserves it," would be the EXACT same group of people saying, "This douchebag should have obeyed the verbiage on the form, he deserves it," if he wound up getting in trouble for signing an incorrect document.


DING DING DING, we have a WINNER!!!
 
2013-02-22 12:02:10 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: internut scholar: Ehcks: Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.

You mean like he offered to do but wasn't allowed to? Yeah, that would have been a good idea. oh look FTA

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.

Notice that his actual argument isn't that the amount they put down was wrong, just that they amount they had wasn't converted to be the currency he paid with, but rather the currency that the organization happens to deal with.


No, the amount they put down was wrong.

The invoice was for say... 20,000 CAD.
On the form they put down 20,000 USD.
However 20,000 CAD is only ~19600 USD, so he's paying import duty on ~400 more than he should be.

However, boat import duty rate is only 1.5% so... he should have just signed and payed the extra $6 USD.
 
2013-02-22 12:03:13 PM  
Idiotic, unresponsive bureaucracy? Check
Irrational tax policies? Check
Involves a boat? Check

Meh. This problem will probably just clear itself up.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-22 12:03:22 PM  

tricycleracer: Raoul Eaton: Not really.  Moving expensive things across national borders has always been a challenge, pretty much everywhere.  Unless by "the system" you mean the system of having nation-states with borders.

You know how much paperwork you have to do to get a wooden horse into Troy?


I don't think they had to do any paperwork in that instance.  And look what happened.
 
2013-02-22 12:03:46 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.


If it's true. People pissed off about something tend to read the worst in a situation.
 
2013-02-22 12:04:09 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian. It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with


He ordered the boat in 2011. Was the price change to reflect what the exchange rate was or was he going to pay taxes on say 300k canadian dollars instead of 250k american dollars based on the exchange rates at the time?
 
2013-02-22 12:06:06 PM  

snocone: Evil Twin Skippy: Am I supposed to feel sorry for this guy?

I have drawn the line.

I only recognize third world level problems.
First world richie rich hassles, not even on my radar.


I hope you are being sarcastic.  I will remember you.  You are no longer allowed to complain about anything other than a third-world level problem.
Not the price of gas.  Not internet connection speeds.  Not the price of health insurance.   Not your coworker who spends all day on Fark.
I bet you don't last a day.
 
2013-02-22 12:06:37 PM  

NEDM: One thing that I've got to point out:  he wasn't dealing with the DHS proper, he was dealing with US Customs.  While they can be assholes, it's like that with EVERY Customs agency around the world.  It's not a post-9/11 Jackboot thing, or even an uniquely American thing.  He kept calling them "DHS" because when people hear "Homeland Security" they automatically make the connection with TSA.


I realize a single anecdote doesm't prove anything, but here's my little css:

The worst customs experience I ever had was in  Perú.  I was stopping there on my way to the USA from Chile for a two-week vacation (Machu Picchu and all that jazz).  I brought with me my computer, which I had no intention of using in Perú; it was just luggage.  I was going through customs and had just converted all of my Chilean money into Preuvian money.  I had only a very few American dollars with me.  The customs people asked if they could open my suitcase and I said sure.  When they opened it, they found the computer (it was a desktop computer, not a laptop, and it had been packed in the suitcase).

Then they started talking about paying an import tax on the computer.  I argued that it was just luggage and I was just passing through. The problem, apparently, was that they thought I might try to sell the computer while in Perú.  After I assured them I had no intention of doing anything with the computer except taking it with me to the USA, they offered me a deal: pay the tax, leave the computer with them, and when I was about to leave Perú I could get my computer and the tax back, provided I immediately loaded the machine onto a plane flying out of the country.  After shifting some stuff around I left them the entire suitcase, which really was to my advantage as it meant I didn't have to schlep it around the country for two weeks.

I did get my stuff back and my "deposit," minus a really small processing fee.  The worst part was that I had to convert my Peruvian money into US dollars because they wouldn't take their own country's currency, and of course I lost some money from the moneychanging process (I really can't blame Jesus for beating those moneychangers with a whip).

Anyway, the point is, these guys were actually as helpful and accommodating as one could hope for while still enforcing the rules.
 
2013-02-22 12:06:39 PM  

Rostin: Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.

I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.


You don't need to spend the money, but be prepared for some really, really, stupid stuff from the government. Went through similar with my wife a decade ago...

According to the US Government, a person's fingerprints change every couple years, and you need to get new ones taken.

According to the US Government, errors on passports can be changed with a black sharpie.  "Just strike through it, and write the real country" we were told by a Border/immigration agent.

According to the US Government, you must take a series of physical tests with a doctor to make sure you aren't bringing in diseases, but at no step along the way, does anyone check to make sure it's actually "you" taking the physical and giving blood. Just send in a healthy ringer.
 
2013-02-22 12:08:05 PM  

Vtimlin: gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.

It should be simple enough for anyone to do.


THIS!
 
2013-02-22 12:08:27 PM  

orclover: SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.


This is CBP, not TSA.  With locality, LEAP, etc. it's more like $40-50 an hour and up.

The Officer is much richer than the average American, and it's certainly not unreasonable to expect some level of competence for that compensation.
 
2013-02-22 12:08:32 PM  

Snarfangel: Rapmaster2000: I'm enjoying how the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" community is in here playing like they're rebels.  If you changed DHS to Marine Corps then who was in the wrong would turn 180 degrees.

Gah! I hate filling out Marine Corps forms. I can never remember how many o's  are in oorah, and the damned spell checker keeps changing it to Oprah.



Marine Core forms are much easier.
 
2013-02-22 12:08:53 PM  

ciberido: NEDM: One thing that I've got to point out:  he wasn't dealing with the DHS proper, he was dealing with US Customs.  While they can be assholes, it's like that with EVERY Customs agency around the world.  It's not a post-9/11 Jackboot thing, or even an uniquely American thing.  He kept calling them "DHS" because when people hear "Homeland Security" they automatically make the connection with TSA.

I realize a single anecdote doesm't prove anything, but here's my little css:

The worst customs experience I ever had was in  Perú.  I was stopping there on my way to the USA from Chile for a two-week vacation (Machu Picchu and all that jazz).  I brought with me my computer, which I had no intention of using in Perú; it was just luggage.  I was going through customs and had just converted all of my Chilean money into Preuvian money.  I had only a very few American dollars with me.  The customs people asked if they could open my suitcase and I said sure.  When they opened it, they found the computer (it was a desktop computer, not a laptop, and it had been packed in the suitcase).

Then they started talking about paying an import tax on the computer.  I argued that it was just luggage and I was just passing through. The problem, apparently, was that they thought I might try to sell the computer while in Perú.  After I assured them I had no intention of doing anything with the computer except taking it with me to the USA, they offered me a deal: pay the tax, leave the computer with them, and when I was about to leave Perú I could get my computer and the tax back, provided I immediately loaded the machine onto a plane flying out of the country.  After shifting some stuff around I left them the entire suitcase, which really was to my advantage as it meant I didn't have to schlep it around the country for two weeks.

I did get my stuff back and my "deposit," minus a really small processing fee.  The worst part was that I had to convert my Peruvian money into US dollars because ...


Yeah I'm pretty sure those guys just pocketed that money you gave them.
 
2013-02-22 12:10:03 PM  

tricycleracer: DHS even has a helpful page he could have read up on:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1184/~/importing-a-boat -f or-personal-use-into-the-u.s.


Since what he was doing was consistent with the information on that page I'm not sure:
1. Why you think he didn't read up on that very link and
2. How exactly the information on that page would have helped him in this situation
 
2013-02-22 12:10:21 PM  

China White Tea: I'm almost entirely certain that the people asserting that, "This idiot douchebag should have just done what he was told to do, he deserves it," would be the EXACT same group of people saying, "This douchebag should have obeyed the verbiage on the form, he deserves it," if he wound up getting in trouble for signing an incorrect document.


That is the fark way.
 
2013-02-22 12:13:21 PM  

This Looks Fun: Ace Rimmer: This Looks Fun: Ace Rimmer: The only reason for the dollar amount is to calculate duty.... which, since he doesn't mention it at all, I assume they weren't going to charge him. In that case it truly didn't matter what amount was written in that block, on a form that is going to spend all of its life sitting in a cardboard box next to Indy's ark.

You're not referring to THIS part of TFA, are you? : My job was to show up and sign forms and then leave with Buddy (WA sales tax and registration fees come a week later).

WA sales tax and registration fees are not US Customs duties....
The state of WA would have used the invoice to calculate sales tax and fees not his customs declaration.

Possibly; I can't be certain. I know with out-of-state cars, they use the title. I'm not sure if they'd use an invoice or a customs document. Either way, if I knew the price was wrong and I wasn't sure what the price would be for signing a wrong document, I too would wait for the corrected form. This incident does not make him look bad. It makes DHS look bad.


Nobody looks at your customs documents except customs. Also, the correct from would have had him paying 1.5 percent of his purchase price as duty (paid at time of imprt). He was getting a break and decided to take out his bad experience buying the boat on someone else. If he wants his boat he'll have to file the proper paperwork just like anybody else.
 
2013-02-22 12:18:37 PM  

JohnCarter: What the boat may look like, and I would have soooo swiped "Buddy"
wom

[coastalcraft.com image 850x566]


That boat is as ugly as a mud fence.
 
2013-02-22 12:18:57 PM  

fnordfocus: orclover: SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

This is CBP, not TSA.  With locality, LEAP, etc. it's more like $40-50 an hour and up.

The Officer is much richer than the average American, and it's certainly not unreasonable to expect some level of competence for that compensation.


In Texas the border agents will barely make a living wage.  I highly doubt the socialist utopia of Washington State is paying their border agents doctors wages.  I have heard that la migra is only a slight step up from mall security work, almost on par with jail guards. She is not a lawyer, she's not an accountant, she probably barely has a high school education.   This is like asking the McDonald's cashier to make you crepes.  WTF is wrong with you people?  Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.

Just because all the Barrista's there have PHD's does not mean your import stamper is a FBI accountant for her night job.
 
2013-02-22 12:19:00 PM  

redmid17: inglixthemad: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: He'll eventually get his boat back.
Of course, he will have to pay the storage fees.


What an idiot. I have less trouble carrying hunting rifles (3), dogs (2), and a travel trailer over the border than this dolt.

Probably because you aren't importing a half million dollar boat into the country that needs to be declared and properly recorded for tax purposes. You are probably just going hunting and need a couple of forms filled out along with your passport to get through. Just a bit different there hoss.


Not really that different, if he was unsure he should have had a broker help. We (my partners and I) bought a Mooney Acclaim Type S from a Canuck. We had to fill out similar paperwork. When you are buying that kind property, you make sure your I's are dotted and T's are crossed, hoss. You're not 100% sure go get some farking help. You spend that much money on something like that, don't whine about a couple thousand more if you can't figure the paperwork out yourself.
 
2013-02-22 12:19:41 PM  

China White Tea: I'm almost entirely certain that the people asserting that, "This idiot douchebag should have just done what he was told to do, he deserves it," would be the EXACT same group of people saying, "This douchebag should have obeyed the verbiage on the form, he deserves it," if he wound up getting in trouble for signing an incorrect document.


Well, how are we supposed to keep entertained until the next caturday topic?
 
2013-02-22 12:19:42 PM  
Has anyone come in to express sarcastic gratitude to Obama yet?
 
2013-02-22 12:20:22 PM  
What's that Joni Mitchell song by Sondheim?

"Send in the ..."  hmmm  "Send in the ..."  (thinking)  "Send in the drones." yeah, that's it
 
2013-02-22 12:20:32 PM  

Rostin: GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.

I've heard liberals express confusion and frustration over the willingness of middle and lower class conservative people to defend tax cuts for the wealthy. Your comment helped me to see in a new way that this reflects a really fundamental difference in the thinking or maybe even the intuitions of the two groups. For conservatives, it really is about the principle of the thing. It doesn't matter to most of them that they'll never have enough money to import a boat and risk encountering problems such as this. It still pisses them off that someone has been treated this way.

For liberals, on the other hand, everything is about class. When that square peg won't fit in a round hole, pound harder.


For some, yes. I'm firmly in the "liberal" camp (which is actually fairly centrist as far as reality is concerned), but this is an asinine overreach of government bureaucracy. Last time I checked though, Obama didn't set up the DHS. He's just taken the ball and run with it.

But as for your comments on class, go look at the income changes over the last 30 years between the rich and the middle class. Note how the middle-class has mildly increased while the upper incomes have shot up. Class warfare isn't from the middle class up. It started with the rich buying favorable tax laws as compared to the rest of us.

So I'm guessing you're just implying that the main conservative principle is that rich people are better than the rest of us, and deserve to get preferential treatment as far as taxes and obligations are concerned?
 
2013-02-22 12:27:06 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm enjoying how the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" community is in here playing like they're rebels.  If you changed DHS to Marine Corps then who was in the wrong would turn 180 degrees.


Nope. Biatch in TFA would still be a drone, regardless of uniform.
 
2013-02-22 12:27:52 PM  

nickerj1: The My Little Pony Killer: internut scholar: Ehcks: Or he could have calculated the exchange rate at the time of purchase and wrote in the amount of American Dollars he effectively paid.

You mean like he offered to do but wasn't allowed to? Yeah, that would have been a good idea. oh look FTA

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.

Notice that his actual argument isn't that the amount they put down was wrong, just that they amount they had wasn't converted to be the currency he paid with, but rather the currency that the organization happens to deal with.

No, the amount they put down was wrong.

The invoice was for say... 20,000 CAD.
On the form they put down 20,000 USD.
However 20,000 CAD is only ~19600 USD, so he's paying import duty on ~400 more than he should be.

However, boat import duty rate is only 1.5% so... he should have just signed and payed the extra $6 USD.


In that case he can leave with his boat, file a protest based on the wrong value being used, he'd win, and get his precious six bucks back (possibly with interest since it wasn't his error)
 
2013-02-22 12:28:30 PM  

Kome: As usual, I took the "or else" option. And the bastards stole my boat.
I'll probably get droned now, too.

Up until you decided to go all conspiracy nutter and think that you're important enough for domestic spying. ...


We really need a sarcasm font so stuff like this doesn't happen. Dude was obviously joking. And everybody in this thread that says he deserved to have the boat taken is insane.
 
2013-02-22 12:31:03 PM  
Your blog sucks.
 
2013-02-22 12:37:52 PM  

glass_ibis: I'm reasonably sure it's a crime to demand that someone sign a legal document that is known to be false.  I'd have gotten her name and turned it over to the Washington district attorney.


THIS. I'd probably just have signed the form, but what everyone's forgetting is that  this is a legal document and you can be sued for perjury under it. It's completely reasonable (slightly sticklerish, but not insane) to demand the document be, y'know,  accurate.
 
2013-02-22 12:39:35 PM  
He'll get the paperwork fixed. He'll get his boat back. It'll be fine. A bit of a hassle, but that's the just the beginning of hassles with boat ownership.
 
2013-02-22 12:41:31 PM  

orclover: Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.


You know, I know some Constitution Loving Conservatives(TM) who told me that if they decided to do that in airports, I should be okay with that, because terrorism.  If I had a problem with that, I needed to be strapped to a chair and forced to watch 9/11 until I got it trough my goddamn stupid liberal head why it was okay.

When it affects people with money, though, THEN it's an outrage.  Huh.
 
2013-02-22 12:43:12 PM  

orclover: In Texas the border agents will barely make a living wage.  I highly doubt the socialist utopia of Washington State is paying their border agents doctors wages.  I have heard that la migra is only a slight step up from mall security work, almost on par with jail guards. She is not a lawyer, she's not an accountant, she probably barely has a high school education.   This is like asking the McDonald's cashier to make you crepes.  WTF is wrong with you people?  Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.


Her salary isn't paid by the state.  Federal LEO salary schedules are public information.  A midgrade GL-9 in Seattle is at $29.11/hour before 25% LEAP (availability pay).

http://archive.opm.gov/oca/12tables/html/SEA_leo_h.asp
 
2013-02-22 12:43:32 PM  

dslknowitall: Kome: As usual, I took the "or else" option. And the bastards stole my boat.
I'll probably get droned now, too.

Up until you decided to go all conspiracy nutter and think that you're important enough for domestic spying. ...

We really need a sarcasm font so stuff like this doesn't happen. Dude was obviously joking. And everybody in this thread that says he deserved to have the boat taken is insane.


I do not think there is anything in the context of his blog post that indicates that comment could be sarcastic. But, yes, I agree that his boat should not have been taken away. What happened to him was f*cked up. But the tone of the article indicated a severely warped view of government. E.g. the quote that is the headline - what does it matter that the person had a gun? The same meaning without ascribing nefarious authoritarianism can be conveyed by just saying "A government employee asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today." The imagery of the gun is unnecessary and only serves as a rhetorical device to paint the situation as contrasting the citizen with the big bad government. The mention about being droned because of this moves it from "damn, you got screwed, I'm sorry" to "what happened really sucks, but you really need to put it in perspective because you're starting to sound crazy" territory.

mongbiohazard: Kome: mongbiohazard: Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?

Yes. Who else can afford to import a boat and doesn't have access to the internet!?

/facepalm

Just having access to the internet doesn't mean anyone gives a shiat what you have to say. But because of who he is he has fans/followers/admirers who can ensure the story gets wider attention then just some dude buying a boat from his brother or something.

Is that really a difficult concept for you?


And yet, Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, Fark, Reddit, Examiner, Imgur, Tumblr, Blogspot, Wordpress, Youtube, etc. etc. etc. It's amazing how many venues there are online for people to easily attain the sort of pulpit or following (in some capacity, obviously something like Fark/Reddit is different than Twitter/Tumblr) you think is a necessary precondition to make people aware of a perceived injustice (I only say perceived because not all rants on blogs reflect a true slight, even though in this case I genuinely believe the guy was royally screwed over). Even more amazing is how quickly word can spread because a person can link to their own blog. We have the ability to build our own pulpit and grow our own following (or at least, our own visibility). And if you can afford to import a vehicle, you can afford to sign up for all of those lovely free services (as this guy did) and share your own views. That's, you know, kind of what the Internet is for. That, and porn. Obviously. The internet is primarily for porn. But beyond porn, it gives anyone who has access to it the ability to create a niche for themselves to share whatever serious or inane thoughts they want to share.
 
2013-02-22 12:44:16 PM  
Im pretty sure its HIS job to have the proper forms, not the customs agent. So she told him to sign or leave because frankly, its not her problem. Sort your own shiat out.
 
2013-02-22 12:45:02 PM  

digitalrain: Rapmaster2000: I'm enjoying how the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" community is in here playing like they're rebels.  If you changed DHS to Marine Corps then who was in the wrong would turn 180 degrees.

Nope. Biatch in TFA would still be a drone, regardless of uniform.


I don't recall the USMC seizing property imported from Canada, insisting  that a person  sign a false document  etc. Peeing on dead Taliban yes (and who cares) but this No.

Unfortunate US military is not as involved in border security as it should be.

Of course if this had been  in 20087 the Fark progressives would have been all OMG Bush-Cheney-Blackwater.  But now the President is even spared the blame for record gas prices..
 
2013-02-22 12:45:36 PM  
I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.

dslknowitall: Kome: As usual, I took the "or else" option. And the bastards stole my boat.
I'll probably get droned now, too.

Up until you decided to go all conspiracy nutter and think that you're important enough for domestic spying. ...

We really need a sarcasm font so stuff like this doesn't happen. Dude was obviously joking. And everybody in this thread that says he deserved to have the boat taken is insane.


We don't need a sarcasm font. As you say, he was obviously joking. Now you and I can laugh at those without the sense to see that. Come on, let's laugh at him, and point too. ahahah *points at him, ahahaha.
 
2013-02-22 12:48:42 PM  

Graffito: snocone: Evil Twin Skippy: Am I supposed to feel sorry for this guy?

I have drawn the line.

I only recognize third world level problems.
First world richie rich hassles, not even on my radar.

I hope you are being sarcastic.  I will remember you.  You are no longer allowed to complain about anything other than a third-world level problem.
Not the price of gas.  Not internet connection speeds.  Not the price of health insurance.   Not your coworker who spends all day on Fark.
I bet you don't last a day.


Gee, who said that?
Oh, you did.
I said no sympathy for the privledged butthurtz.

Me? I got a license to complain. Earned it fair and square.
Don't think it includes boat stupidity.

/if "God" intended you to go yachting, "He" would have given you a propeller
//or a sail
 
2013-02-22 12:50:02 PM  
Michael Arrington says:
I honestly think if I had just "changed the form" when she expected me to sign it she'd have pulled out her gun.


This guy is a farking drama queen.
 
2013-02-22 12:58:54 PM  

China White Tea: I'm almost entirely certain that the people asserting that, "This idiot douchebag should have just done what he was told to do, he deserves it," would be the EXACT same group of people saying, "This douchebag should have obeyed the verbiage on the form, he deserves it," if he wound up getting in trouble for signing an incorrect document.


THIS.

He wasn't refusing to sign a form, he just wanted to sign a correct form that specifically stated he was signing it because it was correct.
How is that being a douche?
 
2013-02-22 12:59:28 PM  
 
2013-02-22 01:01:14 PM  

tricycleracer: This guy is a farking drama queen.


Yeah, that must be it.  On the other hand, they can take your property if you refuse to sign an inaccurate form that "doesn't really matter".  I mean, cause, you know, for the security of the fatherland.  Welcome to the fourth reich.  You can have a comfy chair but if we say it's a threat to "security", it's gonna be our comfy chair, so eat sh*t while we steal from you.  You know what the opposite of a "drama queen" is?  A pissy little b*tch who sucks any dick stuck in her face cause "what UVER".
 
2013-02-22 01:02:08 PM  

Rapmaster2000: PaLarkin: abhorrent1: He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.

So all someone has to do to be a douchebag is stand up for their rights?  That's bullshiat.  When I go to a store and buy something and get my receipt, I'm done.  If some door nazi wants to see my receipt, he's going to be disappointed.  I paid for it and I will not show them my receipt unless they can prove to my satisfaction  they have good cause to  see it.  One reason the country has gone down the toilet is so many people just submit to whatever crap government imposes on them.

Constitutional Tip:  There are no rights involved in shopping at Wal-Mart.  They offer low prices in exchange for receipt-checking.  If you are so opposed to receipt-checking, then you are free to shop at another store.


Nor, indeed, does having to show your receipt to the door greeter in any way involve submitting to the government.

My father-in-law, when he lived in South Carolina, decided to be a horse's ass on several occasions.  They banned him from the store.  They're a private business, it was their right.  The straw that broke the camel's back was when he started swearing at the CSM because there were CSMs going over the schedule up by the checkouts, and only four cashiers actually on duty.
 
2013-02-22 01:02:46 PM  

Slaxl: I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.


Because her actions were inconsequential?

In order to clear his boat from Customs he has to file the proper paperwork.
His paperwork had an error
The CBP officer told him the error was insignificant, wouldn't make any difference, and wasn't worth the time to leave the dock, go back to the office, correct, return to the dock, etc.thus ensuring that the man would have had to schedule a fourth try to clear his boat
The man refused to file the proper paperwork and didn't get his boat
When the man calms down and files the proper paperwork, he'll get his boat

Hint: When someone
 
2013-02-22 01:05:06 PM  
CSB:

I went to Japan to visit the (ex, now)in-laws. (ex)wife's dad gave me a boom-box radio before I left. I image it was worth $50-75 US. I put it in a box and checked it with my bags. On the plane they gave us the customs froms and I forgot about the damn thing, so I wrote 'nothing to declare'.

Well I get my bags and was like "oh yeah, I have this radio". So when I got to the customs guy I told him "I wrote I had nothing to declare and signed this thing, but I forgot I had gotten this radio"
The just looks at me angrily and asks "What do you do for a living?"
I say "I'm in the Army"
He looks at me for a second and says "Oh, I suppose that explains it. You can go"
"Uh, thanks, I guess".
 
2013-02-22 01:05:21 PM  

crispyorganic: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.  http://joshuatopolsky.com/post/2791763076/dear-michael-arrington


He may be an e-jerk but if it was patriotic and OK to steal from jerks, Dick Cheney and the Koch Brothers would be living behind dumpsters.  We have allowed a class of sadists, gutless punks and thieves with tin badges to be installed in our country and the absolute authority granted to these jerkoffs attracts precisely the sort of people you would assume such a job might.
 
2013-02-22 01:10:31 PM  

Pitabred: But as for your comments on class, go look at the income changes over the last 30 years between the rich and the middle class. Note how the middle-class has mildly increased while the upper incomes have shot up. Class warfare isn't from the middle class up. It started with the rich buying favorable tax laws as compared to the rest of us.



I agree with you somewhat (and I realize this is definitive thread-jack). There is unarguably an expanding gap between the rich and the middle class, but it has little to do with taxes. Liberals like you and me see this growing inequality and attempt to correct it with tax reform, but I believe that's simply punitive.


Why do we believe that our situations will improve if the rich are taxed more? What is the Federal government going to do with that extra income that will benefit us? The answer is nothing. Instead of trying to pull ourselves up, we are trying to drag them down. Satisfying, maybe. But it's not going to do us any real good.


The rich have further enriched themselves by cutting the middle class out of the equation. They use outsourcing and foreign manufacturing and automation and Wal-Mart to deprive the middle class of earning potential. This is a terrible thing for us, but fighting against it is no more productive than punching a river whose flood water is dragging your house out to sea. The solution is to grab what you can and build a new house somewhere else. Otherwise we are an entire population of travel agents fighting against the tyranny of Expedia.


Since the rich have removed us from the food chain, we now need to create our own food chain. The internet is the greatest equalizing technology ever created and even the homeless can use it for free at the library. Anyone with 10 dollars can create their own website and use it to create profitable content. This is the great economic opportunity of our time. Anyone can publish a kindle book through Amazon. Anyone can make a film and promote it on Youtube. Anyone can glue raccoon hair to a rock and sell it on Etsy. Anyone can import plastic garbage from China and sell it to whoever.


The middle class is desperately clinging to a boat that threw them overboard decades ago. Anyone who depends on a salary as their sole source of income is voluntarily enslaving themselves. Class warfare is real. Correction, was real. It's over and they won. It's just taken a while for us to notice. But the government won't save us. It can't even save itself. It's up to us to provide for our own salvation and look to the examples of those who have done it. Check out the guy in the article. I don't know anything about him except he started some blog I've never read and now his biggest problem is getting his brand-new, enormous, hand built yacht through customs. And we hate him for it when we should be looking to his example.


In my opinion, having the government take more money from the rich and hope it trickles down to us is just as ridiculous as Reagan's proposal ever was.
 
2013-02-22 01:11:04 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.


Have you considered that the point of view of the potential boat owner might be biased, and he might be trying to paint the DHS in a more negative light?
 
2013-02-22 01:11:14 PM  

AxemRed: When it looked like it was going to become a big deal, I would have just scribbled out the USD and changed it to CAD myself and then signed it rather than asking.


Either fix the value or the units.  If she says "you can't do that" after you've already done it, start from scratch with a new document that can be done correctly.

Would love to hear the other side of this story.
 
2013-02-22 01:11:15 PM  
He shouldn't be complaining. At least he didn't have some guy come over and start playing pool with his johnson.
 
2013-02-22 01:12:56 PM  

bunner: He may be an e-jerk but if it was patriotic and OK to steal from jerks, Dick Cheney and the Koch Brothers would be living behind dumpsters.


A man can dream......
 
2013-02-22 01:16:03 PM  

Ace Rimmer: Slaxl: I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.

Because her actions were inconsequential?

In order to clear his boat from Customs he has to file the proper paperwork.
His paperwork had an error
The CBP officer told him the error was insignificant, wouldn't make any difference, and wasn't worth the time to leave the dock, go back to the office, correct, return to the dock, etc.thus ensuring that the man would have had to schedule a fourth try to clear his boat
The man refused to file the proper paperwork and didn't get his boat
When the man calms down and files the proper paperwork, he'll get his boat

Hint: When someone


Oops just saw I didn't finish that last thought
 
2013-02-22 01:19:00 PM  
I think the real problem here was the DHS person was a biatch both literally and figuratively.

Giving women authority is a questionable move at best
 
2013-02-22 01:20:21 PM  

xria: he might be trying to paint the DHS in a more negative light?


This, and a few other alphabet soup clusterf*cks emerged, whole cloth, about an hour and a half after those buildings got blown up.   Replete with foot thick manuals outlining their powers and authority.  Kind of makes you wonder how long the paperwork was sitting idle, waiting for a bolt hole.  When a federal agency that can't manage to assign parking spaces effectively grants broad and sweeping power to a newly minted array of goons and failed pizza delivery drivers - inside of a month - you can bet your sweet cheeks that it's not in the interests of the populace of the country at large
 
2013-02-22 01:21:01 PM  

orclover: fnordfocus: orclover: SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

This is CBP, not TSA.  With locality, LEAP, etc. it's more like $40-50 an hour and up.

The Officer is much richer than the average American, and it's certainly not unreasonable to expect some level of competence for that compensation.

In Texas the border agents will barely make a living wage.  I highly doubt the socialist utopia of Washington State is paying their border agents doctors wages.  I have heard that la migra is only a slight step up from mall security work, almost on par with jail guards. She is not a lawyer, she's not an accountant, she probably barely has a high school education.   This is like asking the McDonald's cashier to make you crepes.  WTF is wrong with you people?  Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.

Just because all the Barrista's there have PHD's does not mean your import stamper is a FBI accountant for her night job.


Eh I doubt it.

Pay and Benefits


Q:What is the pay and benefits package?A:New agents are hired at the GL-5, GL-7 or GL-9 grade level depending on education and experience and are paid at a special salary rate for Federal law enforcement personnel. Salaries can be found at: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/201 2 /law-enforcement-officer/hou_leo.pdf Border Patrol Agents are also provided with opportunities to earn overtime pay. In addition, Agents will receive a uniform allowance of $1500.00 and an excellent Federal Government benefits package including life insurance, health insurance, liberal retirement benefits, and a thrift savings plan (401-K).

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/careers/customs_careers/border_careers/bp _a gent/faqs_working_for_the_usbp.xml#PayandBenefits

Beginning pay for a G-5 is 43K and that's probably without a college degree or a host of other desirable qualifications.
 
2013-02-22 01:23:53 PM  
THIS IS AN OUT...oh. Michael Arrington. The only person I'd feel less pity for is Jason Calacanis, so... here's hoping he's next!

GO DHS
USA
USA
USA
 
2013-02-22 01:27:24 PM  

bunner: tricycleracer: This guy is a farking drama queen.

Yeah, that must be it.  On the other hand, they can take your property if you refuse to sign an inaccurate form that "doesn't really matter".  I mean, cause, you know, for the security of the fatherland.  Welcome to the fourth reich.  You can have a comfy chair but if we say it's a threat to "security", it's gonna be our comfy chair, so eat sh*t while we steal from you.  You know what the opposite of a "drama queen" is?  A pissy little b*tch who sucks any dick stuck in her face cause "what UVER".


I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.
 
2013-02-22 01:27:24 PM  

Magnanimous_J: Pitabred: But as for your comments on class, go look at the income changes over the last 30 years between the rich and the middle class. Note how the middle-class has mildly increased while the upper incomes have shot up. Class warfare isn't from the middle class up. It started with the rich buying favorable tax laws as compared to the rest of us.


I agree with you somewhat (and I realize this is definitive thread-jack). There is unarguably an expanding gap between the rich and the middle class, but it has little to do with taxes. Liberals like you and me see this growing inequality and attempt to correct it with tax reform, but I believe that's simply punitive.

Why do we believe that our situations will improve if the rich are taxed more? What is the Federal government going to do with that extra income that will benefit us? The answer is nothing. Instead of trying to pull ourselves up, we are trying to drag them down. Satisfying, maybe. But it's not going to do us any real good.

The rich have further enriched themselves by cutting the middle class out of the equation. They use outsourcing and foreign manufacturing and automation and Wal-Mart to deprive the middle class of earning potential. This is a terrible thing for us, but fighting against it is no more productive than punching a river whose flood water is dragging your house out to sea. The solution is to grab what you can and build a new house somewhere else. Otherwise we are an entire population of travel agents fighting against the tyranny of Expedia.

Since the rich have removed us from the food chain, we now need to create our own food chain. The internet is the greatest equalizing technology ever created and even the homeless can use it for free at the library. Anyone with 10 dollars can create their own website and use it to create profitable content. This is the great economic opportunity of our time. Anyone can publish a kindle book through Amazon. Anyone can make a film and promote it on Youtube. Anyone can glue raccoon hair to a rock and sell it on Etsy. Anyone can import plastic garbage from China and sell it to whoever.

The middle class is desperately clinging to a boat that threw them overboard decades ago. Anyone who depends on a salary as their sole source of income is voluntarily enslaving themselves. Class warfare is real. Correction, was real. It's over and they won. It's just taken a while for us to notice. But the government won't save us. It can't even save itself. It's up to us to provide for our own salvation and look to the examples of those who have done it. Check out the guy in the article. I don't know anything about him except he started some blog I've never read and now his biggest problem is getting his brand-new, enormous, hand built yacht through customs. And we hate him for it when we should be looking to his example.

In my opinion, having the government take more money from the rich and hope it trickles down to us is just as ridiculous as Reagan's proposal ever was.


See, the thing is that I'm not wanting the government to take more money from the rich, think it'll trickle down, or anything like that. It's my basic sense of fairness that says "Hey, I'm paying 20% of my income in taxes, why should the Romney's pay 15%? Shouldn't they pay at least the same rate as I do?" I think that everyone in this country, after we have taken care of their basic needs, has a duty to help pay for the public infrastructure that helps all of us. The deficit is almost entirely because of political shenanigans, handouts of government funds to corporate suppliers who are now not paying taxes on that money they made from it. Healthcare, military, DHS, all of it. Our GNP has grown year over year, but we somehow can't seem to do anything but bleed money, and now the poor are poorer than they've ever been, and the rich are richer, but the country is in deep in debt. And according to the GOP, it's all the fault of those 47% of poor people, and we just need to cut taxes on the richest more so that money trickles down. There's a problem with that.
 
2013-02-22 01:28:33 PM  

hasty ambush: I think the real problem here was the DHS person was a biatch both literally and figuratively.

Giving women authority is a questionable move at best


I'd love to think otherwise, but almost every woman I've ever encountered with any position of authority over others usually put on whatever costume off the rack that said "AUTHORITY" to her and proceeded to affect a type of disagreeable behavior that reeked of "This is me, being in charge".  You know, when little girls play "grown up" by lining up all their dolls on the bed and putting their hands on their imaginary hips and start chastising the hapless toys with finger wags and annoyed warnings and reproach.  Most women I've met who are "running things" largely think that endless posturing and mild annoyance = authority and leadership.  Mommy is upset with you and you better be worried.  I hope that I simply ran into a sampling of dolts and charlatans and never managed to meet the vast group of honest, capable women for whom authority is more than an affectation and a masked ball.  I really do.
 
2013-02-22 01:28:50 PM  

bunner: xria: he might be trying to paint the DHS in a more negative light?

This, and a few other alphabet soup clusterf*cks emerged, whole cloth, about an hour and a half after those buildings got blown up.   Replete with foot thick manuals outlining their powers and authority.  Kind of makes you wonder how long the paperwork was sitting idle, waiting for a bolt hole.  When a federal agency that can't manage to assign parking spaces effectively grants broad and sweeping power to a newly minted array of goons and failed pizza delivery drivers - inside of a month - you can bet your sweet cheeks that it's not in the interests of the populace of the country at large


Uh...I don't know what the hell you're talking about.  The guy was dealing with US Customs, which I assure you has existed long before 9/11, complete with their immensely annoying bureaucratic attitude.
 
2013-02-22 01:30:29 PM  

tricycleracer: I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.


I'd like to believe that.  I'd like to believe that a lot of things that "can't happen here because that's not how stuff works" aren't happening every friggin' day, but I ain't holding my breath.
 
2013-02-22 01:31:54 PM  

bunner: tricycleracer: I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.

I'd like to believe that.  I'd like to believe that a lot of things that "can't happen here because that's not how stuff works" aren't happening every friggin' day, but I ain't holding my breath.


I've read more boat forums than I should have today and I cannot find a single example of his experience.

The posts range from "easier than you think" to "hire a broker just to make sure".
 
2013-02-22 01:32:21 PM  

NEDM: Uh...I don't know what the hell you're talking about.  The guy was dealing with US Customs, which I assure you has existed long before 9/11, complete with their immensely annoying bureaucratic attitude.


And they are new newly empowered with sweeping powers and jurisdictions from other federal agencies because "security" is what the golly gee I'm talking about.
 
2013-02-22 01:34:41 PM  

tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.

I'd like to believe that.  I'd like to believe that a lot of things that "can't happen here because that's not how stuff works" aren't happening every friggin' day, but I ain't holding my breath.

I've read more boat forums than I should have today and I cannot find a single example of his experience.


Then maybe he'll go to jail for saying things that aren't true about the glorious protectorate of the fatherland.  Something stinks someplace and my best guess is it has a .gov job.  It's usually the case.
 
2013-02-22 01:37:28 PM  

bunner: tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.

I'd like to believe that.  I'd like to believe that a lot of things that "can't happen here because that's not how stuff works" aren't happening every friggin' day, but I ain't holding my breath.

I've read more boat forums than I should have today and I cannot find a single example of his experience.

Then maybe he'll go to jail for saying things that aren't true about the glorious protectorate of the fatherland.  Something stinks someplace and my best guess is it has a .gov job.  It's usually the case.


You automatically assume he is 100% innocent in all of this?  You refuse to believe that he botched some part of this import and refuses to take personal responsibility?

You people complain that the borders are too open, then something like this happens, and magically the borders are too closed.
 
2013-02-22 01:37:46 PM  

tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: This guy is a farking drama queen.

Yeah, that must be it.  On the other hand, they can take your property if you refuse to sign an inaccurate form that "doesn't really matter".  I mean, cause, you know, for the security of the fatherland.  Welcome to the fourth reich.  You can have a comfy chair but if we say it's a threat to "security", it's gonna be our comfy chair, so eat sh*t while we steal from you.  You know what the opposite of a "drama queen" is?  A pissy little b*tch who sucks any dick stuck in her face cause "what UVER".

I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.


He's describing it as a "seizure", but I honestly don't think it is.  If he was dealing with Customs, they were the ones in actual possession of the boat.  He doesn't actually get the thing until it clears customs.  And he admits that he refused to sign the form that would have released his boat.  I don't think this wasn't so much a "We're taking your boat, citizen" situation as it was a "Sir, we're not releasing your watercraft until you sign the proper form".

Does it suck?  Hell yes.  Is it annoying and aggravating as all hell to have to jump through these hoops to get your shiat?  You bet.  But it's Customs.  There's a reason the heavily recommended course of action is to hire the services of a customs broker to bring in large ticket items.
 
2013-02-22 01:38:39 PM  

bunner: crispyorganic: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.  http://joshuatopolsky.com/post/2791763076/dear-michael-arrington

He may be an e-jerk but if it was patriotic and OK to steal from jerks, Dick Cheney and the Koch Brothers would be living behind dumpsters.  We have allowed a class of sadists, gutless punks and thieves with tin badges to be installed in our country and the absolute authority granted to these jerkoffs attracts precisely the sort of people you would assume such a job might.


It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released. The blogger never had legal possession of it.

This customs agent was trying to help this guy out by letting him take the boat even though the paperwork wasn't quite right. If the paperwork is wrong there is no scenario where that guy takes possession of the boat that day. The customs agent can't hand write in her own changes to things. That's just as illegal. It had to go through the whole process of getting paperwork from the manufacturer again.

The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.
 
2013-02-22 01:40:14 PM  

bunner: NEDM: Uh...I don't know what the hell you're talking about.  The guy was dealing with US Customs, which I assure you has existed long before 9/11, complete with their immensely annoying bureaucratic attitude.

And they are new newly empowered with sweeping powers and jurisdictions from other federal agencies because "security" is what the golly gee I'm talking about.


No...no they're not.  They may have been moved under DHS' umbrella post 9/11(Like the Coast Guard), but their powers have remained the same.  Customs would have refused to hand over your boat in 1990 if you had decided not to sign the release form just as they did here.
 
2013-02-22 01:41:08 PM  
I refuse to sign USPS international documents because I'm not the one delivering the package over national borders. Any asshole could try to smuggle something in that package, and I'm not going to be the honest person that gets screwed because of it. Small things matter when the penalty for such small things is so draconian. farking DHS employee should have changed the dollar amount to be accurate. Your temporary laziness does not trump the letter of the law in these ridiculous zero tolerance times we live in.
 
2013-02-22 01:41:56 PM  
I really like how his blog starts off so humblebrag.  I'm really rich, but I only bought a huge boat from Canada, nothing else.  See, I'm just like you!
 
2013-02-22 01:42:14 PM  

tricycleracer: You automatically assume he is 100% innocent in all of this?  You refuse to believe that he botched some part of this import and refuses to take personal responsibility?


that wasn't what the "article" said, so, um, yeah.  I usually tend to side against the squinting dolts who can arbitrarily take your sh*t over a form that "doesn't matter".  If he's as ;ying prick, f*ck him for wasting my time.  If what he said is true, I'm definitely on his side, yeah.

100%?  Please.  And take that straw off my lawn.  I don't participate in ad hominem dogpiles, kids.  Make it count.
 
2013-02-22 01:42:27 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: A whole lot of placating the bureaucracy going on in this thread.

/there actually is a matter of legal principle in the stance he took
//but it i so much easier to just obey isn't it?

 
2013-02-22 01:42:51 PM  
I like the guy's humblebrag to start the blog.
 
2013-02-22 01:43:21 PM  

odinsposse: It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released.


I'm sorry, I missed the part where sutoms paid for the boat.  My bad.
 
2013-02-22 01:44:18 PM  
the part where sutoms customs paid for the boat.  Can't type.
 
2013-02-22 01:44:48 PM  

redmid17: orclover: fnordfocus: orclover: SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

This is CBP, not TSA.  With locality, LEAP, etc. it's more like $40-50 an hour and up.

The Officer is much richer than the average American, and it's certainly not unreasonable to expect some level of competence for that compensation.

In Texas the border agents will barely make a living wage.  I highly doubt the socialist utopia of Washington State is paying their border agents doctors wages.  I have heard that la migra is only a slight step up from mall security work, almost on par with jail guards. She is not a lawyer, she's not an accountant, she probably barely has a high school education.   This is like asking the McDonald's cashier to make you crepes.  WTF is wrong with you people?  Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.

Just because all the Barrista's there have PHD's does not mean your import stamper is a FBI accountant for her night job.

Eh I doubt it.

Pay and Benefits


Q:What is the pay and benefits package?A:New agents are hired at the GL-5, GL-7 or GL-9 grade level depending on education and experience and are paid at a special salary rate for Federal law enforcement personnel. Salaries can be found at: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/201 2 /law-enforcement-officer/hou_leo.pdf Border Patrol Agents are also provided with opportunities to earn overtime pay. In addition, Agents will receive a uniform allowance of $1500.00 and an excellent Federal Government benefits package including life insurance, health insurance, liberal retirement benefits, and a thrift savings plan (401-K).

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/careers/customs_careers/border_careers/bp _a gent/faqs_working_for_the_usbp.xml#PayandBenefits

Beginning pay for a G-5 is 43K and that's probably without a college degree or a host of other desirable qualifications.


You dont start at step 10... you start at step 1

Usually its GS 5 is a high school degree
GS 7 is a Bachelor's degree
GS 9 is a Master's degree
 
2013-02-22 01:45:12 PM  

NEDM: They may have been moved under DHS' umbrella post 9/11(Like the Coast Guard), but their powers have remained the same


Then why did they move them?
 
2013-02-22 01:45:58 PM  

bunner: odinsposse: It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where sutoms paid for the boat.  My bad.


He owns it but that doesn't mean he can legally possess it. If something I own gets put into police evidence I'm still the owner.
 
2013-02-22 01:47:57 PM  

bunner: NEDM: They may have been moved under DHS' umbrella post 9/11(Like the Coast Guard), but their powers have remained the same

Then why did they move them?


I don't know.  But they were.  Maybe because they decided that their "border control" aspects fit the bill of Homeland Security better than they did the Department of the Treasury? No clue.  But that's all it was:  a shift.  They didn't gain anything they didn't already have.
 
2013-02-22 01:48:45 PM  

odinsposse: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.


There is doubtless a long and mind list of legal minutiae that could be ascribed to insuring, claiming and using a watercraft vis a vis the currency used for purchase.  All this "no big deal, sign here", ostensibly petty bullsh*t is the very raison d' etre for attorneys.
 
2013-02-22 01:49:11 PM  

Pitabred: See, the thing is that I'm not wanting the government to take more money from the rich, think it'll trickle down, or anything like that. It's my basic sense of fairness that says "Hey, I'm paying 20% of my income in taxes, why should the Romney's pay 15%? Shouldn't they pay at least the same rate as I do?" I think that everyone in this country, after we have taken care of their basic needs, has a duty to help pay for the public infrastructure that helps all of us. The deficit is almost entirely because of political shenanigans, handouts of government funds to corporate suppliers who are now not paying taxes on that money they made from it. Healthcare, military, DHS, all of it. Our GNP has grown year over year, but we somehow can't seem to do anything but bleed money, and now the poor are poorer than they've ever been, and the rich are richer, but the country is in deep in debt. And according to the GOP, it's all the fault of those 47% of poor people, and we just need to cut taxes on the richest more so that money trickles down. There's a problem with that.



I don't disagree with a single thing you said. In fact, my prediction is that soon the rich are going to start uprooting and leaving America in droves. They've run this country like a going out of business sale for 30 years and this is the endgame. shiat all over everything and leave the rest of us holding the bag. The truly frustrating part will be listening to the Economic Uncle Toms (rank and file conservatives) railing on us for not pandering to the rich enough.


However, that being said, it's still up to us to create our own destiny. My post was merely addressing the common notion that taxing the rich = more money for me, and you said it yourself, all the government can seem to do is bleed money.
 
2013-02-22 01:50:51 PM  

odinsposse: He owns it but that doesn't mean he can legally possess it.


Yeahhhhhhhh.   :  /

odinsposse: If something I own gets put into police evidence I'm still the owner.


And I'm sure the entire 37.50 will be returned to you in due course.
 
2013-02-22 01:51:30 PM  
You don't want a boat.

You want a friend who has a boat. All the fun, none of the hassle.
 
2013-02-22 01:52:56 PM  

bunner: odinsposse: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.

There is doubtless a long and mind list of legal minutiae that could be ascribed to insuring, claiming and using a watercraft vis a vis the currency used for purchase.  All this "no big deal, sign here", ostensibly petty bullsh*t is the very raison d' etre for attorneys.


Maybe so. But a customs agent can't just write in alterations to paperwork based on their whim. At least I've been told that by U.S. customs. If the paperwork is wrong then customs keeps the boat. Which is what happened.
 
2013-02-22 01:54:55 PM  

odinsposse: If the paperwork is wrong then customs keeps the boat. Which is what happened.


I have GOT to buy a printing press and a badge.
 
2013-02-22 01:55:46 PM  
How much you want to bet this chucklehead was warned to get a customs broker but decided he was too smart and rich to need one? Can't wait to find out if he decides to represent himself in court too.
 
2013-02-22 01:56:36 PM  

iheartscotch: So; what you are saying is; you spotted what you thought was a clerical error, and refused to sign a binding legal document because of said error?

And as a result of this decision; the item in question was ceased by the newest, quite possibly most bloated, department of the government?

/ go ahead, get that lawyer; make the department of homeland security's day, punk.


DOOO EEEEET11@!1
 
2013-02-22 01:57:50 PM  

tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: bunner: tricycleracer: I'm waiting for the rest of the story.  You don't go from "clerical error" to "seizure" in one easy step like he suggests.

I'd like to believe that.  I'd like to believe that a lot of things that "can't happen here because that's not how stuff works" aren't happening every friggin' day, but I ain't holding my breath.

I've read more boat forums than I should have today and I cannot find a single example of his experience.

Then maybe he'll go to jail for saying things that aren't true about the glorious protectorate of the fatherland.  Something stinks someplace and my best guess is it has a .gov job.  It's usually the case.

You automatically assume he is 100% innocent in all of this?  You refuse to believe that he botched some part of this import and refuses to take personal responsibility?

You people complain that the borders are too open, then something like this happens, and magically the borders are too closed.


If you don't think there is a difference between stopping people from illegally entering the country and this then  ithink we have found the real problem with low information voters.
 
2013-02-22 01:58:30 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: How much you want to bet this chucklehead was warned to get a customs broker but decided he was too smart and rich to need one? Can't wait to find out if he decides to represent himself in court too.


I wonder if there are any other portable desk and a pen industries that I can knock together because simply trying to buy something without me getting my cut will result in some dour, gray cow taking your sh*t home.
 
2013-02-22 01:58:32 PM  

bunner: odinsposse: If the paperwork is wrong then customs keeps the boat. Which is what happened.

I have GOT to buy a printing press and a badge.


That and a customs bureau where people will send you things to process through customs.
 
2013-02-22 01:58:49 PM  

bunner: odinsposse: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.

There is doubtless a long and mind list of legal minutiae that could be ascribed to insuring, claiming and using a watercraft vis a vis the currency used for purchase.  All this "no big deal, sign here", ostensibly petty bullsh*t is the very raison d' etre for attorneys.


Yeah I wonder how much a lawyer would charge to say, "Wait, all they want you to do is sign and walk out with your boat? Sign the damn thing and walk out with your boat!
 
2013-02-22 01:59:05 PM  

Ace Rimmer: redmid17: orclover: fnordfocus: orclover: SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

This is CBP, not TSA.  With locality, LEAP, etc. it's more like $40-50 an hour and up.

The Officer is much richer than the average American, and it's certainly not unreasonable to expect some level of competence for that compensation.

In Texas the border agents will barely make a living wage.  I highly doubt the socialist utopia of Washington State is paying their border agents doctors wages.  I have heard that la migra is only a slight step up from mall security work, almost on par with jail guards. She is not a lawyer, she's not an accountant, she probably barely has a high school education.   This is like asking the McDonald's cashier to make you crepes.  WTF is wrong with you people?  Sign the stupid thing and move on with your stuck up lives.  Be thankful the inspection didn't involve a arm, elbow deep up your ass with lube from the lowest bidder.

Just because all the Barrista's there have PHD's does not mean your import stamper is a FBI accountant for her night job.

Eh I doubt it.

Pay and Benefits


Q:What is the pay and benefits package?A:New agents are hired at the GL-5, GL-7 or GL-9 grade level depending on education and experience and are paid at a special salary rate for Federal law enforcement personnel. Salaries can be found at: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/201 2 /law-enforcement-officer/hou_leo.pdf Border Patrol Agents are also provided with opportunities to earn overtime pay. In addition, Agents will receive a uniform allowance of $1500.00 and an excellen ...


[notsureifserious]

Grade 5, Step 1 makes 43,541 a year. Grade 10, Step 1 makes ~60K.
 
2013-02-22 02:00:03 PM  
Seig Heil biatches, hand over your shiat and shut the hell up.

Welcome to the Republik.
 
2013-02-22 02:00:30 PM  

odinsposse: bunner: odinsposse: If the paperwork is wrong then customs keeps the boat. Which is what happened.

I have GOT to buy a printing press and a badge.

That and a customs bureau where people will send you things to process through customs.


*scribbles on a napkin on the way to Best Buy*   :  )
 
2013-02-22 02:01:51 PM  

Ace Rimmer: Yeah I wonder how much a lawyer would charge to say, "Wait, all they want you to do is sign and walk out with your boat? Sign the damn thing and walk out with your boat!


I'm a bit more concerned about the legal pinhole in your condom that might be installed by taking that advice.
 
2013-02-22 02:02:39 PM  

Slaxl: I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.


Because People can't believe in an the ever expanding authority of a federal bureaucrat when it suits them and then question their decisions a moment later.
There's nothing left but to blame the victim.

/Government wants us to believe its needed every where for every thing.
/Its sure as shiat going to abuse any power you give it.
 
2013-02-22 02:04:16 PM  

way south: Slaxl: I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.

Because People can't believe in an the ever expanding authority of a federal bureaucrat when it suits them and then question their decisions a moment later.
There's nothing left but to blame the victim.

/Government wants us to believe its needed every where for every thing.
/Its sure as shiat going to abuse any power you give it.


Governance and capital are deigned to two to things only.  Eat everything it sees and defecate.  OK, three.  It's designed to expand.  Welcome to the leviathan.
 
2013-02-22 02:05:37 PM  

way south: Slaxl: I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.

Because People can't believe in an the ever expanding authority of a federal bureaucrat when it suits them and then question their decisions a moment later.
There's nothing left but to blame the victim.

/Government wants us to believe its needed every where for every thing.
/Its sure as shiat going to abuse any power you give it.


I'm pretty sure that the Customs Service has been a branch of the federal government since the time when the country was founded.
 
2013-02-22 02:08:11 PM  
count me in as one of the people saying wtf is wrong with the jackasses on here defending the confiscating of this guy's boat, please don't vote or attempt to influence policy we got enough authoritarians in government.
 
2013-02-22 02:13:04 PM  

Ace Rimmer: The CBP officer told him the error was insignificant, wouldn't make any difference, and wasn't worth the timewas a lazy biatch and didn't want to bother to leave the dock, go back to the office, correct, return to the dock, etc.


FTFY.
 
2013-02-22 02:18:54 PM  

fredklein: Ace Rimmer: The CBP officer told him the error was insignificant, wouldn't make any difference, and wasn't worth the timewas a lazy biatch and didn't want to bother to leave the dock, go back to the office, correct, return to the dock, etc.

FTFY.


No, no you didn't.
 
2013-02-22 02:19:39 PM  

jaybeezey: If you don't think there is a difference between stopping people from illegally entering the country and this then  ithink we have found the real problem with low information voters.


Oh, you got me there.  I voted for Obama so I'm a libtard.
 
2013-02-22 02:23:12 PM  
There are usually two distinct camps that emerge in the face of flatulent bureaucracy and overreaching authority.  One is certain that if you just alway play along and do as you are told, that they probably wont stick it  in too far and you should be grateful.  The other camp usually rankles and tells the flatulent bureaucracy to go take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut.  Guess which faction knocked this country together.
 
2013-02-22 02:26:09 PM  
"A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today.  "

---

Shut your hole, sign the form, and go enjoy your boat.
Melodramatic bullshiat.
 
2013-02-22 02:27:36 PM  

bunner: There are usually two distinct camps that emerge in the face of flatulent bureaucracy and overreaching authority.  One is certain that if you just alway play along and do as you are told, that they probably wont stick it  in too far and you should be grateful.  The other camp usually rankles and tells the flatulent bureaucracy to go take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut.  Guess which faction knocked this country together.


corn-bread: "A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today.  "

---

Shut your hole, sign the form, and go enjoy your boat.
Melodramatic bullshiat.


*clicks small hand held counter.*  See?
 
2013-02-22 02:34:36 PM  

gozar_the_destroyer: If I were importing something as expensive as a custom boat from another country, I would have hired a lawyer to help me through the process. International import isn't something to do as an amateur.


Shut the fark up.  You are giving young impressionable people the impression that you have some knowledge of the subject, and it's obvious you don't.

I have actually imported many many cargo containers worth of materials from various countries, and I can tell you, it doesn't require a lawyer, nor would one be particularly useful.  Generally.

The process is simple, and easy, and the forms are not at all bad.  The rules are bit... confusing, but they are made that way, as with all other things government.

The best advice I can give anyone doing this... (importing) do whatever the customs guy says, including paying him a "fee".  It's faster, cheaper and easier.  Also, if you are doing what this guy did, and buying a boat internationally for local delivery.... don't.  Instead, tell the company THEY have to import the boat, and then he will buy it on US soil.  That way, they have to deal with the stupid ass agents at the border.
 
2013-02-22 02:36:00 PM  
Well there has been a lot of DHS hate, but just to buck the trend, CSB

I was returning home to Ottawa (I'm a canuck) from a conference in San Diego.  I had left my baggage in check at my hotel for the day as my first flight was a red-eye to Chicago.  That evening I got my bags, went to the airport, and discovered that me passport had been stolen while my bags had been in check.  I filed a police report and checked with United...as a Canadian citizen returning to Canada, I did not require a passport.  I needed proof of citizenship and photo ID...I had a copy of my birth certificate and my drivers licence which qualified, and I got on the plane.

However in Chicago the good folks at United refused to let me on the plane, saying I needed a passport.  I couldn't convince them otherwise (perhaps whatever info was available in San Diego hadn't made it that far east).  I missed my 6 am flight and since no one knew what to do with me, they sent me to DHS.  DHS looked up the rules and said yea, I didn't need a passport and should be able to get on a plane.  United drones said no, wait for the manager.  I missed 2 more flights waiting for him to show up some time after 10 am.  He too insisted I needed a passport.

I was starting to get upset.  It was Sunday morning and the Canadian consulate would be closed until Tuesday (Canadian Thanksgiving was that Monday).  My cell battery was dying.  I hadn't slept in over 24 hours (and had spent most of the previous day in the sun walking around the San Diego zoo).  I was getting fried.

DHS dude was my savior.  He let me use their phone to call home to update my family.  Then he marched over to the United manager with a copy of Canadian regulations...highlighted...showing that I had adequate ID.  Then he marched the manager over to the nearest United counter and had him ensure that I had a pass for the 1 pm flight, confirm that my luggage would be transferred, and call ahead to make sure the boarding staff would allow me on the plane sans passport.  From the the way the woman at the ticket counter was smirking at the manager, it seemed she was enjoying the show.  So yea...thank you DHS.

/TL I know :(
/end CSB
 
2013-02-22 02:42:23 PM  

bunner: bunner: There are usually two distinct camps that emerge in the face of flatulent bureaucracy and overreaching authority.  One is certain that if you just alway play along and do as you are told, that they probably wont stick it  in too far and you should be grateful.  The other camp usually rankles and tells the flatulent bureaucracy to go take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut.  Guess which faction knocked this country together.

corn-bread: "A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today.  "

---

Shut your hole, sign the form, and go enjoy your boat.
Melodramatic bullshiat.

*clicks small hand held counter.*  See?



Hey, I sue governments for fun and profit.  Got two 43 U.S.C. 1983 complaints pending as I write this.  I'm all about raising a stink when wronged by Big Brother.
But raising a stink over a currency snafu on a declarations form?  Nah bro.
 
2013-02-22 02:43:40 PM  

corn-bread: bunner: bunner: There are usually two distinct camps that emerge in the face of flatulent bureaucracy and overreaching authority.  One is certain that if you just alway play along and do as you are told, that they probably wont stick it  in too far and you should be grateful.  The other camp usually rankles and tells the flatulent bureaucracy to go take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut.  Guess which faction knocked this country together.

corn-bread: "A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today.  "

---

Shut your hole, sign the form, and go enjoy your boat.
Melodramatic bullshiat.

*clicks small hand held counter.*  See?


Hey, I sue governments for fun and profit.  Got two 43 U.S.C. 1983 complaints pending as I write this.  I'm all about raising a stink when wronged by Big Brother.
But raising a stink over a currency snafu on a declarations form?  Nah bro.


You have two civil rights violations pending as of right now? How'd those come about?
 
2013-02-22 02:44:14 PM  
Boy, am I excited to read part two of the saga, where he has a boat custom built for him and has a bit of a rough time! Or as he describes it, "a nightmare."
 
2013-02-22 02:45:27 PM  

bunner: tricycleracer: This guy is a farking drama queen.

Yeah, that must be it.  On the other hand, they can take your property if you refuse to sign an inaccurate form that "doesn't really matter".  I mean, cause, you know, for the security of the fatherland.  Welcome to the fourth reich.  You can have a comfy chair but if we say it's a threat to "security", it's gonna be our comfy chair, so eat sh*t while we steal from you.  You know what the opposite of a "drama queen" is?  A pissy little b*tch who sucks any dick stuck in her face cause "what UVER".


Noice. Yeah, I mean, imagine, the guy can't just take a 500k loss for NO GODDAM REASON and shrug it off. What a drama queen. I'm sure if mr tricycleracer had his tricycle confiscated for no reason he'd be livejournaling about it 20 seconds later.
 
2013-02-22 02:45:31 PM  
And that's wonderful that somebody did their job.  Because that's all ANY government job is.  Civil service.  To work within the fair and simple guidelines of whatever agency it is that signs your check in order to facilitate safety, commerce, travel and the general welfare of the populace.  That's IT.  Punkt.  Fullstop.  The very nanosecond that somebody with that agency says "No.  YOU have to do what *I* say and *MY* way because *I* said so, or I'm gonna bend your ass over the sink", that agency is not longer what it says on the label, the pooch is screwed and that agent, or perhaps that agency, needs removed, tut suite.  And the long and broad collections of not so CSBs that clutter the news and the dockets because of people misusing their position in these agencies is evidence to the fact that, while your story might not have been the exception, it is not always the rule.  And that's bullsh*t.  Cause that ain't what we pay for.
 
2013-02-22 02:45:49 PM  

redmid17: corn-bread: bunner: bunner: There are usually two distinct camps that emerge in the face of flatulent bureaucracy and overreaching authority.  One is certain that if you just alway play along and do as you are told, that they probably wont stick it  in too far and you should be grateful.  The other camp usually rankles and tells the flatulent bureaucracy to go take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut.  Guess which faction knocked this country together.

corn-bread: "A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today.  "

---

Shut your hole, sign the form, and go enjoy your boat.
Melodramatic bullshiat.

*clicks small hand held counter.*  See?


Hey, I sue governments for fun and profit.  Got two 43 U.S.C. 1983 complaints pending as I write this.  I'm all about raising a stink when wronged by Big Brother.
But raising a stink over a currency snafu on a declarations form?  Nah bro.

You have two civil rights violations pending as of right now? How'd those come about?



Filed them on behalf of my clients.  One was a bar owner that was harassed by the cops.  The other is a lady that was indicted five times in six months on myriad of frivolous charges.  *Those* are government run amok.
 
2013-02-22 02:51:14 PM  
Do you know how I know this guy was never in the Army?
 
2013-02-22 02:51:53 PM  
I think I'll wait for the other side of the story to come out before passing judgement.

Hundreds of these types of articles are written every year, and the majority of the time we find out there was much more to the story than the "victim" acknowledged.

No offense to all the wagon-jumpers above, but I'd feel foolish pronouncing haughty and self-righteous judgement on this evil civil servant only to later learn that the guy was fudging the declared value by swapping currencies or trying to pull some "sovereign citizen" bullshiat.

So, yeah, let's see what's on the other side of the coin before declaring a crisis of tyrrany.
 
2013-02-22 02:52:55 PM  

2farknfunny: Do you know how I know this guy was never in the Army?


He didn't shoot the b*tch and commandeer the boat for the good of his outfit?
 
2013-02-22 02:55:10 PM  

Highroller48: So, yeah, let's see what's on the other side of the coin before declaring a crisis of tyrrany.


I'm more declaring incompetence, insouciance, general "hey, whatever kiss my ass" - ness, actually, but you have a point.
 
2013-02-22 02:55:16 PM  

2farknfunny: Do you know how I know this guy was never in the Army?


You read the about.me page linked in his blog?
 
2013-02-22 02:56:48 PM  

untaken_name: bunner: tricycleracer: This guy is a farking drama queen.

Yeah, that must be it.  On the other hand, they can take your property if you refuse to sign an inaccurate form that "doesn't really matter".  I mean, cause, you know, for the security of the fatherland.  Welcome to the fourth reich.  You can have a comfy chair but if we say it's a threat to "security", it's gonna be our comfy chair, so eat sh*t while we steal from you.  You know what the opposite of a "drama queen" is?  A pissy little b*tch who sucks any dick stuck in her face cause "what UVER".

Noice. Yeah, I mean, imagine, the guy can't just take a 500k loss for NO GODDAM REASON and shrug it off. What a drama queen. I'm sure if mr tricycleracer had his tricycle confiscated for no reason he'd be livejournaling about it 20 seconds later.


His boat is sitting right where it was (unless the MFG took it back to Canada) waiting patiently for him to come back with the signed form. Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.
 
2013-02-22 02:58:39 PM  

bunner: And that's wonderful that somebody did their job.  Because that's all ANY government job is.  Civil service.  To work within the fair and simple guidelines of whatever agency it is that signs your check in order to facilitate safety, commerce, travel and the general welfare of the populace.  That's IT.  Punkt.  Fullstop.  The very nanosecond that somebody with that agency says "No.  YOU have to do what *I* say and *MY* way because *I* said so, or I'm gonna bend your ass over the sink", that agency is not longer what it says on the label, the pooch is screwed and that agent, or perhaps that agency, needs removed, tut suite.  And the long and broad collections of not so CSBs that clutter the news and the dockets because of people misusing their position in these agencies is evidence to the fact that, while your story might not have been the exception, it is not always the rule.  And that's bullsh*t.  Cause that ain't what we pay for.


The hell do you want them to do, get involved in a private transaction?  Take the word of one ex parte that that was how much was paid?
Are customs officials expected to fill out the paperwork for private parties now?

He refused to sign the Customs declaration form so Customs impounded the boat.  How unreasonable!
 
2013-02-22 02:58:56 PM  
isn't the exchange rate around 1 for 1 ... what's the big deal?
 
2013-02-22 03:00:06 PM  

Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.


So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.
 
2013-02-22 03:02:26 PM  

corn-bread: He refused to sign the Customs declaration form so Customs impounded the boat.  How unreasonable!


"Yo, sign this shiat."  "It's inaccurate".  "F*ck you."  Doesn't work for me.  YMMV.
 
2013-02-22 03:04:11 PM  

corn-bread: The hell do you want them to do, get involved in a private transaction?


They sort of already are, innit?  Lots of them.  It's pretty much the very thing on the label.
 
2013-02-22 03:05:23 PM  

bunner: corn-bread: He refused to sign the Customs declaration form so Customs impounded the boat.  How unreasonable!

"Yo, sign this shiat."  "It's inaccurate".  "F*ck you."  Doesn't work for me.  YMMV.



Do you know how NAFTA transactions work?  Lunchbox was assuming it's inaccurate.
How does he know the sale price wasn't translated into local currency (as is wont to happen for tax purposes).

Didn't think of that, did ya?  Med time for Bunner.
 
2013-02-22 03:06:25 PM  

AccuJack: If he signed it, they'd be able to legally charge him with a crime, because he committed one, that of knowingly stating that incorrect information was true...


If he signed it, he'd be on a boat right now
 
2013-02-22 03:08:46 PM  

corn-bread: Med time for Bunner.


Blow me.   :  )
That being said, NAFTA was a piece of dogsh*t out of the gate, still is, and if the point in question doesn't matter, why is it on the form?
 
2013-02-22 03:10:38 PM  

Molavian: Rostin: Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.

I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.

Do it.  I have a friend that married someone from Poland and even with the lawyer's help it was a huge deal.  $2k is jack compared to the nightmare you'll have if your wife gets deported.


I agree: get a lawyer. She may have violated the terms of her student visa by marrying you if the wedding happened here. I ran into similar trouble when I married my (foreign) husband while he was here on a tourist visa (we had applied for a fiancee visa, but it hadn't been granted by the time we married). That was technically 'fraud' and had a knock-on effect that resulted in a deportation order for him (that we narrowly avoided by engaging a lawyer). Paying a lawyer to double-check your work will be money well-spent.
 
2013-02-22 03:18:33 PM  

NEDM: way south: Slaxl: I don't understand why so many of you try so hard to justify the actions of the woman, or dismiss them as inconsequential.

Because People can't believe in an the ever expanding authority of a federal bureaucrat when it suits them and then question their decisions a moment later.
There's nothing left but to blame the victim.

/Government wants us to believe its needed every where for every thing.
/Its sure as shiat going to abuse any power you give it.

I'm pretty sure that the Customs Service has been a branch of the federal government since the time when the country was founded.


Yes, Government gets money from taxing imports and exports. That's something even I can accept.
But this means her job was to fix the goddamed paperwork and collect the tax, not the boat.

Her actions will probably cost the government far more than it stood to make off of one vessel, and why?  Because she's saving us from terrorists who didn't fill out form #THX1138 properly?
That's not within the original scope of the custom house's job, that's mission creep.

Its happening because we stuffed them under DHS and gave every paper pusher far more authority than they need.
 
2013-02-22 03:24:32 PM  

Flakeloaf: One more time: When the authorities tell you to do something stupid, DO IT, look stupid doing it, and call them on it later once the situation is over and everyone's calmed down. Escalating just gets you whatever this is.


This.

Customs will not release imported property to your custody without a signed declaration.  This isn't some out-of-control bureaucracy; it's the rational basis of a reasonable control on international trade.

Better to sign where you're told, and then once you have your boat you can have your lawyer submit a letter stating "I was instructed by agent XXX (id number YYY) to sign the form despite my concerns about the accuracy of the document" if any problems arise.
 
2013-02-22 03:26:03 PM  
I work in an industry that has to deal with customs in a lot of import situations. The amount of people that call in and have questions regarding the importation of goods into the US is much smaller than the people that just call up and say they need something cleared stat and can I help out or point them in a direction. Most people don't realize the steps the US government requires when importing goods and it can and does get them into trouble, usually monetarily.

However, at least the US is not like some other countries: there is a guy in Brasil that ordered some wheels/tires off Ebay from an outfit in norcal. The company the wheels/tires were ordered from dropped off the cargo to my facility sometime in 2007. The wheels were still sitting there in that facility when i quit the job in January. The import rules (and the need of an import license) in Brasil are terrible and make it difficult for simple transactions to even take place. Whenever we have to export freight down into Brasil, we have to first send down all the commercial documentation for approval before we can even tender the cargo the an outbound carrier. It is tedious.

Re the "article", this guy needs to get a broker. I assume the boat was moved to a bonded facility to hold until it is cleared. After 15 days, the boat would go to GO and eventually (if not claimed by the original importer from GO) it would go to auction. A broker, assuming the above is correct, should be able to get this thing squared away ASAP.

Lastly, this guy should thank the heavens that boats do not fall under the FDA...*shudder*.
 
2013-02-22 03:40:06 PM  

bunner: And that's wonderful that somebody did their job.  Because that's all ANY government job is.  Civil service.  To work within the fair and simple guidelines of whatever agency it is that signs your check in order to facilitate safety, commerce, travel and the general welfare of the populace.  That's IT.  Punkt.  Fullstop.  The very nanosecond that somebody with that agency says "No.  YOU have to do what *I* say and *MY* way because *I* said so, or I'm gonna bend your ass over the sink", that agency is not longer what it says on the label, the pooch is screwed and that agent, or perhaps that agency, needs removed, tut suite.  And the long and broad collections of not so CSBs that clutter the news and the dockets because of people misusing their position in these agencies is evidence to the fact that, while your story might not have been the exception, it is not always the rule.  And that's bullsh*t.  Cause that ain't what we pay for.


You think it's the job of US CBP to explain Canadian immigration laws to an airline that flies to Canada?

That officer went way beyond what their job description entails.

Ok, let's go back to our scenario. Since you want it done by the book fine. Please call CBP as soon as the crane company you contact with tells you the boat is out of the water and ready for the hill to be visually examined. I also need all the bulkheads/cabinets/cubbyholes/etc. opened and ready for inspection.

I should also remind you that if I show up and the boat is not ready for inspection, I am going to start charging you $1000 for every hour I sit there waiting.

Please have your cash or money order for your duty charges ready when I get there. No checks or cards accepted...

Then again, you could realize when someone is trying to cut you a break and get you on the water in your new toy, so the officer can go back to more important stuff like looking for drugs/explosives/poisoned dog treats/lead poisoned toys/etc.
 
2013-02-22 03:51:06 PM  

Ace Rimmer: I should also remind you that if I show up and the boat is not ready for inspection, I am going to start charging you $1000 for every hour I sit there waiting.


You're fired.
 
2013-02-22 03:54:52 PM  
MsIndy:

I agree: get a lawyer. She may have violated the terms of her student visa by marrying you if the wedding happened here. I ran into similar trouble when I married my (foreign) husband while he was here on a tourist visa (we had applied for a fiancee visa, but it hadn't been granted by the time we married). That was technically 'fraud' and had a knock-on effect that resulted in a deportation order for him (that we narrowly avoided by engaging a lawyer). Paying a lawyer to double-check your w ...

I know that there are some temporary visas for which this is true, but I also know a fair number of people who have gotten married while on student visas without trouble. But, yeah, it's details like that that bug me. We could be walking right into a great big bear trap.
 
2013-02-22 03:58:30 PM  
A blog report.  Facts highly doubtful.
 
2013-02-22 04:03:42 PM  
So if he had just signed the government created form and "overlooked" the error, he would have his boat and no one would have been the wiser for it. Instead, he wanted to make a point about how stupid and farked up the government is, and as a result of his foolishness he lost his boat.

IMHO, serves him right for trying to be a dick and make a point at some low level bureaucrat. In his shoes, I'd have just signed the damned form and kept my mouth shut
 
2013-02-22 04:05:28 PM  
So, 200 posts after I stopped reading, is it still a mortal sin to dare try to own a boat? I mean, what a douche, right? The nerve of that guy, buying a boat and all..
 
2013-02-22 04:06:41 PM  

ck1938: He voted for Obama. Piss on him.


Riiiiigggghhhht, because the DHS was Obama's idea.
 
2013-02-22 04:07:14 PM  

Macular Degenerate: he wanted to make a point about how stupid and farked up the government is, and as a result of his foolishness


Yeah, what a silly thing to do. He's probably some commie, soshlist, wise guy sh*t stirrer.  Bad citizen.  No boat.

Macular Degenerate: I'd have just signed the damned form and kept my mouth shut


You are a 1%er's wet dream.
 
2013-02-22 04:08:52 PM  

kendelrio: FTFA: "Buying this boat was one of the worst decisions I've ever made, and the nightmare is only just starting."said every boat owner, ever.


BOAT: a hole in the water that you throw money into. Acronym stands for Bust Out Another Thousand.
 
2013-02-22 04:11:14 PM  

untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.


He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.
 
2013-02-22 04:11:32 PM  

Rapmaster2000: AccuJack: Molavian: JerkyMeat: meddleRPI: Oh no, bureaucratic process has to be satisfied. There may have to be another form to be filed.

TRULY THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

No, GOPers have won. This the America they crave.

F*ckballs.  I can't stand all the f*cking morons on this site who think there's a difference between the political parties.  They're all out to screw us, and most of us sit here pointing fingers at each other.  Everyone here is more like each other than we are like them, and that's the f*cking truth.

Amen.  Nowadays when anyone on the Internet or in person identifies themselves as a member of any party, or tries to describe political ideologies like "liberal" or "conservative" as if they were describing types of fruit in a grocery store, I can pretty much assume they're delusional, gullible, or emotionally needy.

People want to badly to belong to something that they'll join up with the first group that cons them into it, and separating them from it after that is like deprogramming a cult member.

That's why I don't vote for the Republicrats or the Democans like the rest of the sheeple.  I'm a libertarian like Dr. Ron Paul.  I have my own ideas that can't fit in some box.  I'm a free thinker.  A loner.  A rebel.


You aren't a loner. I am there with you.
 
2013-02-22 04:13:42 PM  

bunner: Macular Degenerate: he wanted to make a point about how stupid and farked up the government is, and as a result of his foolishness

Yeah, what a silly thing to do. He's probably some commie, soshlist, wise guy sh*t stirrer.  Bad citizen.  No boat.

Macular Degenerate: I'd have just signed the damned form and kept my mouth shut

You are a 1%er's wet dream.


There's no authoritarian angle to this. The proper bureaucratic procedure is: boat goes to customs > paperwork is wrong > customs holds the boat until paperwork is fixed. That's what happened.

The customs agent wanted to bed the rules. She was, if anything, trying to be less of an authoritarian asshole. The blogger was the one who insisted they follow the rules.
 
2013-02-22 04:16:59 PM  

odinsposse: The blogger was the one who insisted they follow the rules.


Yeah, you shouldn't really pay me any mind.  I think we should either ALL follow the rules for the reasons we're supposed to, change the rules to be more just and useful as necessary, or just light the rules up, piss them out, make pointy sticks and cover ourselves in mud around the fire.  I'm sort of an optimist, at times.
 
2013-02-22 04:19:23 PM  

bunner: odinsposse: The blogger was the one who insisted they follow the rules.

Yeah, you shouldn't really pay me any mind.  I think we should either ALL follow the rules for the reasons we're supposed to, change the rules to be more just and useful as necessary, or just light the rules up, piss them out, make pointy sticks and cover ourselves in mud around the fire.  I'm sort of an optimist, at times.


You're right, customs was totally justified in taking the boat.
 
2013-02-22 04:20:02 PM  

Kome: And yet, Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, Fark, Reddit, Examiner, Imgur, Tumblr, Blogspot, Wordpress, Youtube, etc. etc. etc. It's amazing how many venues there are online for people to easily attain the sort of pulpit or following (in some capacity, obviously something like Fark/Reddit is different than Twitter/Tumblr) you think is a necessary precondition to make people aware of a perceived injustice (I only say perceived because not all rants on blogs reflect a true slight, even though in this case I genuinely believe the guy was royally screwed over). Even more amazing is how quickly word can spread because a person can link to their own blog. We have the ability to build our own pulpit and grow our own following (or at least, our own visibility). And if you can afford to import a vehicle, you can afford to sign up for all of those lovely free services (as this guy did) and share your own views. That's, you know, kind of what the Internet is for. That, and porn. Obviously. The internet is primarily for porn. But beyond porn, it gives anyone who has access to it the ability to create a niche for themselves to share whatever serious or inane thoughts they want to share.



You know, that was a whole lot of words for you to type and yet still miss the point completely.

I've complained about many things on Facebook/Twitter, etc. but I'm just some regular Joe so it isn't necessarily going to get the kind of attention this more famous guy is getting. If a DHS agent screwed me over like that and I biatched about it on Facebook or my blog most likely my friends would go "Yeah! What a bastard!" and that would be the end of it. There isn't enough time in the day for us all to share every legitimate complaint from all 320 million Americans - obviously.

So I'll say it again... "Who else has she treated similarly who didn't have as loud a pulpit?"

Or do you honestly think this is the very first time this agent has bullied someone "because internet"?
 
2013-02-22 04:23:46 PM  

MsIndy: Molavian: Rostin: Aidan: This post reminded me of my own fun at the border, years ago. I had a work visa at the time, and I got married. I figured I'd do the marriage visa whenever, since I was STILL working. Apparently this was horribly wrong and I was "forcing" the agent to "let me back in" the country. Because... I... lived here...?

So yeah, I agree with the guy in the story. You don't let yourself sign crap like that. He could have handled it better, but the agent could have not been a useless tit, too. Since I assume making sure the forms are correctly signed to HER department's standards would be HER JOB.

I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.

Do it.  I have a friend that married someone from Poland and even with the lawyer's help it was a huge deal.  $2k is jack compared to the nightmare you'll have if your wife gets deported.

I agree: get a lawyer. She may have violated the terms of her student visa by marrying you if the wedding happened here. I ran into similar trouble when I married my (foreign) husband while he was here on a tourist visa (we had applied for a fiancee visa, but it hadn't been granted by the time we married). That was technically 'fraud' and had a knock-on effect that resulted in a deportation order for him (that we narrowly avoided by engaging a lawyer). Paying a lawyer to double-check your work will be money well-spent.


A student can get married no problem so long as their main purpose is still to go to school.

Your story is more complicated because he came in on the wrong visa for what he intended to do.

If he had been standing in line at Disney World, looked over, saw you, and was instantly smitten... That would have been ok
 
2013-02-22 04:23:53 PM  

odinsposse: You're right, customs was totally justified in taking the boat.


Oh, please.  I hate to start bringing history into this, but history will eventually.  So far, the people who rah rah'd for whatever "f*ck you because I said so" monkeys du jour had the whip have wound up on the sh*tty end of the stick.  You either do what it says on the label or you join the pack of gray area farmers who build their lives around the notion that hypocrisy is the norm and what we say and what we actually do should never meet if it's not convenient.  I choose A.  Rock on, but spare me the "oh, ha ha see what I did there?"
crap.
 
2013-02-22 04:27:37 PM  

bunner: Ace Rimmer: I should also remind you that if I show up and the boat is not ready for inspection, I am going to start charging you $1000 for every hour I sit there waiting.

You're fired.


Awesome, it is still your responsibility to havd your cargo/merchandise ready for inspection.

Oh, and I might be going away, but your fine is still going up until my replacement shows up

And your dock fees

And what ever your paying for the crane

Etc.
 
2013-02-22 04:29:45 PM  
As they say, if it floats, flies, or farks, you're better off renting it.

Of course, we're only hearing this guy's side of the story. Dollars to doughnuts, the guy was a complete prick to the customs agent the entire time, and she jumped at the chance to stick it to him when he wouldn't budge on a typo. Evidence: he's writing about it on his blog, that automatically makes anything he says suspect.
 
2013-02-22 04:36:36 PM  

odinsposse: bunner: crispyorganic: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.  http://joshuatopolsky.com/post/2791763076/dear-michael-arrington

He may be an e-jerk but if it was patriotic and OK to steal from jerks, Dick Cheney and the Koch Brothers would be living behind dumpsters.  We have allowed a class of sadists, gutless punks and thieves with tin badges to be installed in our country and the absolute authority granted to these jerkoffs attracts precisely the sort of people you would assume such a job might.

It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released. The blogger never had legal possession of it.

This customs agent was trying to help this guy out by letting him take the boat even though the paperwork wasn't quite right. If the paperwork is wrong there is no scenario where that guy takes possession of the boat that day. The customs agent can't hand write in her own changes to things. That's just as illegal. It had to go through the whole process of getting paperwork from the manufacturer again.

The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.


img.howcast.com
/reading is hard
//maybe you should actually CTFA
 
2013-02-22 04:38:39 PM  

Highroller48: I think I'll wait for the other side of the story to come out before passing judgement.

Hundreds of these types of articles are written every year, and the majority of the time we find out there was much more to the story than the "victim" acknowledged.

No offense to all the wagon-jumpers above, but I'd feel foolish pronouncing haughty and self-righteous judgement on this evil civil servant only to later learn that the guy was fudging the declared value by swapping currencies or trying to pull some "sovereign citizen" bullshiat.

So, yeah, let's see what's on the other side of the coin before declaring a crisis of tyrrany.


If he turns out to be a sovereign citizen, you hold him down and I'll shiat in his mouth.
 
2013-02-22 04:38:57 PM  

bunner: odinsposse: You're right, customs was totally justified in taking the boat.

Oh, please.  I hate to start bringing history into this, but history will eventually.  So far, the people who rah rah'd for whatever "f*ck you because I said so" monkeys du jour had the whip have wound up on the sh*tty end of the stick.  You either do what it says on the label or you join the pack of gray area farmers who build their lives around the notion that hypocrisy is the norm and what we say and what we actually do should never meet if it's not convenient.  I choose A.  Rock on, but spare me the "oh, ha ha see what I did there?"
crap.


The customs agent didn't abuse her power. If the paperwork is wrong she can't give him his boat. It's that simple. She offered to use her power in his favor by overlooking the paperwork. That's not totalitarianism. If anything it's the opposite. She saw the rules were in the way and was willing to bypass them to give him his boat. He refused and hey, he may have been right and that form may have come back to bite him but it isn't an overstep of power to do exactly what she should have done.
 
2013-02-22 04:41:29 PM  

bunner: There are usually two distinct camps that emerge in the face of flatulent bureaucracy and overreaching authority.  One is certain that if you just alway play along and do as you are told, that they probably wont stick it  in too far and you should be grateful.  The other camp usually rankles and tells the flatulent bureaucracy to go take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut.  Guess which faction knocked this country together.


it's absolutely astounding how many bootlickers are in this thread. I thought i had seen the worst of Fark after lurking for literally YEARS, but today I learned a new lesson in herpa derpa doo. This thread appears to be the diametric oppsite of a cop thread. I find that ironic as hell.
 
2013-02-22 04:41:54 PM  

Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.


You seem to have left some things out:

One of the rules of the form is that the information must be accurate.
The information was not accurate.
The customs official would not update the information to be accurate.
Changing the info would have been a trivial matter for the customs official.
She decided to seize his boat instead and laugh in his face.

Completely not of his own making.
 
2013-02-22 04:41:55 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide. The blogger didn't want to let it slide so he doesn't get his boat.

[img.howcast.com image 320x180]
/reading is hard
//maybe you should actually CTFA


You're right. She didn't consult the other agent. Otherwise my point stands. He wanted the paperwork to be correct so now he gets to wait for the corrected paperwork and customs holds his boat.
 
2013-02-22 04:42:13 PM  

abhorrent1: He's probably one of those douchebags that refuses to show his receipt when he leaves a store too.


Yeah, this.

It's really hard to tell who's being more stupid in this sorry tale, but this time, I have to say it's the boat owner. So, yay you, you stood up for your "principles" but legally you lose, DHS has your boat and no legal reason to give it back and you will have to hire a pricey lawyer to find a way to make them. She was being a bureaucratic coont, but the better thing would be to sign her damn paper, put the correction in the margin, get her name, and IF there were any repercussions (unlikely), put it back on her.

It's hard to feel sorry for someone who sounds like such an asshole.
 
2013-02-22 04:42:29 PM  

odinsposse: bunner: odinsposse: It was never his property. That's the point that the blogger and every "Government robbery!" person in here is missing. It was transferred from the manufacturer to customs. Customs holds it until it gets released.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where sutoms paid for the boat.  My bad.

He owns it but that doesn't mean he can legally possess it. If something I own gets put into police evidence I'm still the owner.


something something possession is 9/10 or something
 
2013-02-22 04:46:35 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: it's absolutely astounding how many bootlickers are in this thread. I thought i had seen the worst of Fark after lurking for literally YEARS, but today I learned a new lesson in herpa derpa doo. This thread appears to be the diametric oppsite of a cop thread. I find that ironic as hell.


No, no, see, you're missing the point.  It's OK to f*ck this guy around because he can afford a boat.
 
2013-02-22 04:46:41 PM  

mooseyfate: If he turns out to be a sovereign citizen, you hold him down and I'll shiat in his mouth.


You can count on me.
 
2013-02-22 04:49:34 PM  

Ace Rimmer: bunner: Ace Rimmer: I should also remind you that if I show up and the boat is not ready for inspection, I am going to start charging you $1000 for every hour I sit there waiting.

You're fired.

Awesome, it is still your responsibility to havd your cargo/merchandise ready for inspection.

Oh, and I might be going away, but your fine is still going up until my replacement shows up

And your dock fees

And what ever your paying for the crane

Etc.


I think what's important here is that you get to say what's what, what's not, how much and when and where and that's that.  You're good at it.  I think you should look into civil service.
 
2013-02-22 04:52:32 PM  

bunner: HindiDiscoMonster: it's absolutely astounding how many bootlickers are in this thread. I thought i had seen the worst of Fark after lurking for literally YEARS, but today I learned a new lesson in herpa derpa doo. This thread appears to be the diametric oppsite of a cop thread. I find that ironic as hell.

No, no, see, you're missing the point.  It's OK to f*ck this guy around because he can afford a boat.


OIC so it is Fark consistent. Carry on then.
 
2013-02-22 04:55:20 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-22 05:02:59 PM  

mongbiohazard: Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.

You seem to have left some things out:

One of the rules of the form is that the information must be accurate.
The information was not accurate.
The customs official would not update the information to be accurate.
Changing the info would have been a trivial matter for the customs official.
She decided to seize his boat instead and laugh in his face.

Completely not of his own making.


The form wants to know the price of the boat

It is supposed to be in US$

The price accidentally got recorded in CA$

The price is still recorded on the form

The error was insignificant and the officer was apparently satisfied that there was no reason not to release the boat

Then he decided to completely make his own reason for not getting his boat.
 
2013-02-22 05:03:55 PM  

Obiwontaun: Marcus Aurelius: Knowingly filing false information on a federal form is punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

My guess is the form in question was the invoice from the manufacturer showing the CAD which would not be a federal document. Customs people are actually pretty easy to deal with as long as you don't piss them off.


Why would customs require him to sign it then?  They are concerned about their own forms, and no one else's.
 
2013-02-22 05:13:12 PM  

bunner: Ace Rimmer: bunner: Ace Rimmer: I should also remind you that if I show up and the boat is not ready for inspection, I am going to start charging you $1000 for every hour I sit there waiting.

You're fired.

Awesome, it is still your responsibility to havd your cargo/merchandise ready for inspection.

Oh, and I might be going away, but your fine is still going up until my replacement shows up

And your dock fees

And what ever your paying for the crane

Etc.

I think what's important here is that you get to say what's what, what's not, how much and when and where and that's that.  You're good at it.  I think you should look into civil service.


Umm... no

You wanted the full Customs experience and for this officer to follow the letter of the law exactly as written. Heck, I haven't even gotten to the fun stuff yet!
 
2013-02-22 05:24:49 PM  
I know that can happen when you smoke a doobie in front of a Gubment official-
 
2013-02-22 05:25:03 PM  

ERNesbitt: I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.


I'm sure that's how Conservatives see it, yes.
 
2013-02-22 05:28:37 PM  

Ace Rimmer: You wanted the full Customs experience and for this officer to follow the letter of the law exactly as written.


Or the letter to match the law.

Ace Rimmer: Heck, I haven't even gotten to the fun stuff yet!


Fascinating, yet precious.
 
2013-02-22 05:30:57 PM  

ciberido: I'm sure that's how Conservatives see it, yes.


There are no liberals or conservatives by any meaningful definition of the terms.  There's just people grasping for power and money and holding beauty pageants to see who gets to be the monkey and who gets to be the football.  You know, the peasantry.
 
2013-02-22 05:31:39 PM  

Joe boater: Should have just made a hand written change to the document. Which anyone could have done and signed the blasted paper. But nooooo this crusader wanted to be superman.


Read the comments.  That's exactly what he wanted to do--but they wouldn't permit it.

Rostin: I'm a US citizen, and I very recently got married to someone currently in the US on a student visa. We are about to begin the green card process. My wife thinks it's no big deal, but I've heard so many immigration horror stories and dealt with bureaucracies enough in general that I'm a hair's breadth away from shelling out the $1000-$2000 that a lawyer would charge, just to reduce the chances of things going wrong. It's a lot of money, but the consequences of failure seem very high. The most maddening thing about it is knowing that even though we have done nothing wrong, we could still get dicked over because of an innocent mistake combined with some stupid policy that makes no sense.


I've been though it (as the US citizen) sans lawyer.  Things turned out ok in the end but not because they wanted it that way.  I don't know for sure what happened but it looks like our first "interviewer" took a dislike to my wife and sabotaged her file somehow.  (Fortunately, we moved into the area of another office that was much more reasonable.)  They're also a total nightmare to deal with.  Back then they had some interesting ways of dealing with phone congestion, such as only leaving you on hold for a few minutes before disconnecting you.

AccuJack: I'd personally have corrected the form and signed the corrected version. That changes the situation from "won't sign, therefore seize" to "our process doesn't allow form corrections, what do we do?" in which case they'd either officially re-issue the form with the correction or (more likely) ignore it because it's too much trouble to deal with. The big advantage consumers have in dealing with most TSA and customs folks is that they're government employees, and therefore a high number of them are lazy as hell.


That's exactly what he did--and they responded by seizing.

Aidan: I'm only half-joking there. The forms themselves don't necessarily change, but the order in which you're supposed to file them does. Also take pictures of the pair of you in various places now, if you don't have any. Try to commingle your assets (shared bank accounts, shared address, bills that clearly come either to her name at your address or both your names, etc). Keep track of all your taxes, check stubs from your jobs, etc in one place so you can more easily start gathering the right documents when it comes time to start instead of saying "Oh crap. I didn't think you'd want my phone bill from 3 years ago!"


Second this, he's not joking.  It took IIRC three go-rounds with an affidavit of support (fortunately, not requiring a new fee each time) because supposedly the income claimed appears nowhere on the tax return.  I finally got it accepted by spending the better part of a page showing the math of how the number had been right all along.  Never mind that the tax return showed a higher number.  Never mind that we showed enough assets that it would have been approved with an income of $0.

Braindeath: I hate rich people as much as the next person but this is bullshiat. He said in the comments that she wouldn't let him change the form, and she imo withheld information from her boss so she could take the boat.

Bullshiat.

I also hope that people who have guns and this kind of authority aren't making 9 dollar an hour or the theft will be through the roof. [I'm assuming it is.]


It occurs to me that what might be going on here is that she gets some sort of bonus for seizures, never mind if they are legit or not.

The My Little Pony Killer: Not according to his blog. According to his blog, it was in American dollars instead of Canadian. It's the exact same value, just not in the specific terms he had paid, but rather in terms that the DHS was willing to deal with. Guy's a pedantic asshole without a boat.


$1 Canadian != $1 USA.  Putting the wrong currency on the correct number makes it wrong.

graeylin: According to the US Government, you must take a series of physical tests with a doctor to make sure you aren't bringing in diseases, but at no step along the way, does anyone check to make sure it's actually "you" taking the physical and giving blood. Just send in a healthy ringer.


And they're not going to ban you if something terrible comes up, anyway.  The point of the physical is to catch the things that can be treated and make you get them treated.  I don't recall about ID by now, that was nearly a quarter century ago.

MsIndy: I agree: get a lawyer. She may have violated the terms of her student visa by marrying you if the wedding happened here. I ran into similar trouble when I married my (foreign) husband while he was here on a tourist visa (we had applied for a fiancee visa, but it hadn't been granted by the time we married). That was technically 'fraud' and had a knock-on effect that resulted in a deportation order for him (that we narrowly avoided by engaging a lawyer). Paying a lawyer to double-check your work will be money well-spent.


I'm surprised he even got a tourist visa with a fiancee visa pending.  Coming here to get married on a tourist visa is most certainly a no-no.  However, it's based on intent, if you come here as a genuine tourist, then fall in love and get married it's not a no-no.  I'm no lawyer and most of my dealings with them are long ago but I don't see that he's in the wrong.
 
2013-02-22 05:33:17 PM  

Joe boater: Three possibilities here, none of which include this once new boat owner getting his boat back.

1. Boat is placed in a government auction.

2. Boat is transferred to a federal marine division.

3. Boat is transferred to a military moral office and rented out to DOD personnel.

Should have just made a hand written change to the document. Which anyone could have done and signed the blasted paper.  But nooooo this crusader wanted to be superman.


Sounds just like a tax, eat it Citizen.
 
2013-02-22 05:33:52 PM  
Loren:

Exactly.  Signing a document you know to be false is a bad thing.

18 USC 1001

--Carlos V.
 
2013-02-22 05:34:01 PM  

jpk_ks: ERNesbitt: ciberido:
If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.

I would endorse the ERNesbitt's statement - it's that whole 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome' question.  Admittedly, I'm biased as someone who tends towards the conservative side.


And again, yes, this is the issue from the Conservatives' point of view.  The Conservative take on it is it's a question of 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome'.   Of course, once you frame it that way, the Conservative way does some both more fair and more realistic.

You must understand, of course, that not everyone agrees with the way you framed it.
 
2013-02-22 05:38:15 PM  
Joe boater:

Three possibilities here, none of which include this once new boat owner getting his boat back.
1. Boat is placed in a government auction.
2. Boat is transferred to a federal marine division.
3. Boat is transferred to a military moral office and rented out to DOD personnel



So, theft.
 
2013-02-22 05:38:49 PM  

mongbiohazard: One of the rules of the form is that the information must be accurate.
The information was not accurate.


As with any quantitative measure, there's a certain amount of imprecision involved in describing how much a boat is worth.  The customs agents seem to have acknowledged that, but the would-be importer took it too literally.

Let's say the value of the boat was US$199K, but the paperwork stated it was CA$199K.  At the exchange rate currently given by Google, that's equivalent to US$194,659.01.

Does Customs really care whether it's closer to $195K or $200K?  Probably not.  Hell, the exchange rate will be different tomorrow and throw all the numbers off anyway, so it's as close as it needs to be dammit.

It's not like there was confusion between US dollars and Mexican pesos resulting an a tenfold difference here.
 
2013-02-22 05:39:51 PM  

Macular Degenerate: So if he had just signed the government created form and "overlooked" the error, he would have his boat and no one would have been the wiser for it. Instead, he wanted to make a point about how stupid and farked up the government is, and as a result of his foolishness he lost his boat.

IMHO, serves him right for trying to be a dick and make a point at some low level bureaucrat. In his shoes, I'd have just signed the damned form and kept my mouth shut


...and anytime in the future, someone could notice the incorrect info, and arrest you for perjury for lying on a government form.
 
2013-02-22 05:42:19 PM  

Ace Rimmer: He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form because it had incorrect information on it, and by signing, he was swearing this incorrect information was actually correct.


FTFY.
 
2013-02-22 05:44:17 PM  

odinsposse: There's no authoritarian angle to this. The proper bureaucratic procedure is: boat goes to customs > paperwork is wrong > customs holds the boat until paperwork is fixed. That's what happened.


Um, no. She refused to fix it.

I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.

I thought this was important because I was signing it and swearing that the information, and specifically the price, was correct.

The DHS agent didn't care about the error and told me to sign the form anyway. "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter," she said.
 
2013-02-22 05:44:35 PM  

fredklein: Macular Degenerate: So if he had just signed the government created form and "overlooked" the error, he would have his boat

...and anytime in the future, someone could notice the incorrect info, and arrest you for perjury for lying on a government form.


Welcome to the land of the free and the home of the brave.  Watch out for the bear traps and autocrats.
 
2013-02-22 05:47:16 PM  

odinsposse: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide.


I think you mean "The customs agent told him to perjure himself.She called another agent who also encouraged him to perjure himself."

/there is no 'let it slide' when you're swearing something to be the truth
 
2013-02-22 05:50:20 PM  
Until we stop blowharding for, winking at, smirking over and tee hee-ing about the people who "get away with sh*t because they can", none of this on any level - from this minor clusterf*ck to the tattered edges of the constitution - is ever going to get any better.  Nor should it.  If you buy the con that by kissing up to douchebags, that one day, YOU might get to be the nudge and wink douchebag with the say so and the do-as-you-please nameplate on your lapel, and you win, you deserve to be abused.
 
2013-02-22 06:09:16 PM  

fredklein: odinsposse: The customs agent said it can slide. She called another agent, who also said to let it slide.

I think you mean "The customs agent told him to perjure himself.She called another agent who also encouraged him to perjure himself."

/there is no 'let it slide' when you're swearing something to be the truth


While that'$ u$ually the ca$e, there are $ometimes mitigating circum$tances where the rule$ can be di$posed of for a certain cla$$ of people.
 
2013-02-22 06:19:33 PM  

bunner: Ace Rimmer: You wanted the full Customs experience and for this officer to follow the letter of the law exactly as written.

Or the letter to match the law.

Ace Rimmer: Heck, I haven't even gotten to the fun stuff yet!

Fascinating, yet precious.


Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.

If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.

And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.
 
2013-02-22 06:27:30 PM  

Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.


www.frontroomcinema.com

Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.


Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.


You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )
 
2013-02-22 06:28:33 PM  
Can you feel the outrage?  Oh,  my stars and garters, I am incensed.  *snort*
 
2013-02-22 06:32:01 PM  

Ace Rimmer: mongbiohazard: Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.

You seem to have left some things out:

One of the rules of the form is that the information must be accurate.
The information was not accurate.
The customs official would not update the information to be accurate.
Changing the info would have been a trivial matter for the customs official.
She decided to seize his boat instead and laugh in his face.

Completely not of his own making.

The form wants to know the price of the boat

It is supposed to be in US$

The price accidentally got recorded in CA$

The price is still recorded on the form

The error was insignificant and the officer was apparently satisfied that there was no reason not to release the boat


Then he decided to completely make his own reason for not getting his boat.


Who says it's insignificant ?  When dealing with any level of bureaucracy the most apparently trivial discrepancies have a nasty way of causing trouble down the line.  At any rate, when importing goods, having the wrong price on the accompanying documents is not a trivial matter.

It was not she who was asked to sign a document attesting that the inaccurate information it contained was accurate. Demanding that a private citizen sign a document she knew contained inaccurate information was at the very least a serious breach on her part.
 
2013-02-22 06:45:02 PM  

bunner: Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.



Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.

Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.

You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )


You aren't to bright are you?
 
2013-02-22 06:47:27 PM  
Yeah, boo hoo. Next thing you know he'll be complaining that his summer cottage's lawn wasn't maintained properly while he was away.

/Rich people problems.
 
2013-02-22 06:49:31 PM  

Ace Rimmer: You aren't to bright are you?


According to Stanford Binet, 99.97 percentile.  Any other dime store insults you want to toss out before I slip your crib sheet under the mod's door?  Cause that seems to be why you're here.
 
2013-02-22 06:57:24 PM  

capt.hollister: Ace Rimmer: mongbiohazard: Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.

You seem to have left some things out:

One of the rules of the form is that the information must be accurate.
The information was not accurate.
The customs official would not update the information to be accurate.
Changing the info would have been a trivial matter for the customs official.
She decided to seize his boat instead and laugh in his face.

Completely not of his own making.

The form wants to know the price of the boat

It is supposed to be in US$

The price accidentally got recorded in CA$

The price is still recorded on the form

The error was insignificant and the officer was apparently satisfied that there was no reason not to release the boat

Then he decided to completely make his own reason for not getting his boat.

Who says it's insignificant ?  When dealing with any level of bureaucracy the most apparently trivial discrepancies have a nasty way of causing trouble down the line.  At any rate, when importing goods, having the wrong price on the accompanying documents is not a trivial matter.

It was not she who was asked to sign a document attesting that the inaccurate information it contained was accurate. Demanding that a private citizen sign a document she knew contained inaccurate information was at the very least a serious breach on her part.


If he is filing an entry with 489 different items and it isn't obvious what currency his values are in then it is significant.

If it is a one item entry where it is obvious the price was recorded in Canadian dollars it is insignificant.

If any one every questions it all he has to do is show his invoice and it will be obvious the amount is correct. Nobody is sitting in jail in the USA for failing to do a currency conversion on a Customs form.
 
2013-02-22 07:02:58 PM  

jigger: Was it form 27B stroke 6?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 612x792]


Or, he could just use the standard S-1798 and write in 'boat*' where it says 'machine gun.'

*= or pizza
 
2013-02-22 07:04:35 PM  

Ace Rimmer: If he is filing an entry with 489 different items and it isn't obvious what currency his values are in then it is significant.

If it is a one item entry where it is obvious the price was recorded in Canadian dollars it is insignificant.

If any one every questions it all he has to do is show his invoice and it will be obvious the amount is correct. Nobody is sitting in jail in the USA for failing to do a currency conversion on a Customs form.


Just shut the fark up.

People have been fined and threatened with jail for minor form issues-look at gun dealers and how the ATF was treating them if they allowed a person to abbreviate a street, state or country on the 4473.  (The most recent forms finally allow postal abbreviations.)

What seems minor to you, me, or another person may be a felony if the government wants to enforce it.

I'd hate to see you as a notary.
 
2013-02-22 07:05:20 PM  

ZMugg: jigger: Was it form 27B stroke 6?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 612x792]

Or, he could just use the standard S-1798 and write in 'boat*' where it says 'machine gun.'

*= or pizza


I want my incubator, damn it!
 
2013-02-22 07:06:38 PM  

pedrop357: ZMugg: jigger: Was it form 27B stroke 6?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 612x792]

Or, he could just use the standard S-1798 and write in 'boat*' where it says 'machine gun.'

*= or pizza

I want my incubator, damn it!


Sorry wrong form, google says I need form 437 - stroke - R2
 
2013-02-22 07:10:33 PM  

syberpud: The guy acted like a douche, but he had a point and the officer could be seen as violating authority.


Maybe he was rude to the agent, maybe he wasn't ... we'll never know for sure, but it's sounds like she got irritated at his behavior because he didn't genuflect to her authority. That's what it boils down to ... she felt disrespected that this guy wouldn't just do as he was told, so pretty much decided to show him who was boss.
 
2013-02-22 07:13:38 PM  

The Snow Dog: Now, in this particular situation: you're probably right, (I probably would've signed) but if authorities ask you to do something stupid--think long and hard about it and consider all the angles.


Definitely - although sometimes you don't have a lot of options. I had a friend who was in a similar situation as the passenger of a driver who was being arrested for DWI. They asked her to step out of the car - then arrested her for "public intoxication". IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you cannot refuse a cop's order to step out of the car, so you are pretty much screwed either way.
 
2013-02-22 07:15:15 PM  

texref: she felt disrespected that this guy wouldn't just do as he was told, so pretty much decided to show him who was boss


And this is why it's a bad idea to do business with people who internalize everything like you just told the their ass looks fat if you see a discrepancy.
 
2013-02-22 07:15:37 PM  

pedrop357: Ace Rimmer: If he is filing an entry with 489 different items and it isn't obvious what currency his values are in then it is significant.

If it is a one item entry where it is obvious the price was recorded in Canadian dollars it is insignificant.

If any one every questions it all he has to do is show his invoice and it will be obvious the amount is correct. Nobody is sitting in jail in the USA for failing to do a currency conversion on a Customs form.

Just shut the fark up.

People have been fined and threatened with jail for minor form issues-look at gun dealers and how the ATF was treating them if they allowed a person to abbreviate a street, state or country on the 4473.  (The most recent forms finally allow postal abbreviations.)

What seems minor to you, me, or another person may be a felony if the government wants to enforce it.

I'd hate to see you as a notary.


When did ATF get involved in this?

The only number on a Customs form that you better not ever, and I mean ever, fark up is the Harmonized Tariff number.
 
2013-02-22 07:23:41 PM  

Ace Rimmer: When did ATF get involved in this?

The only number on a Customs form that you better not ever, and I mean ever, fark up is the Harmonized Tariff number.


It's to dispute this idea that government agencies don't mind form mishaps.  An agent who doesn't have anything to lose will tell you it's fine.

Another with an axe to grind will love that you willfully lied on a form.
 
2013-02-22 07:28:57 PM  

pedrop357: Ace Rimmer: When did ATF get involved in this?

The only number on a Customs form that you better not ever, and I mean ever, fark up is the Harmonized Tariff number.

It's to dispute this idea that government agencies don't mind form mishaps.  An agent who doesn't have anything to lose will tell you it's fine.

Another with an axe to grind will love that you willfully lied on a form.


A Customs agent with an axe to grind would have invited him to watch his boat being taken apart by a sawsall looking for drugs

Tricking him into signing a form that is going to spend the rest of its life disintegrating in a cardboard box would be pointless.
 
2013-02-22 07:37:12 PM  

Dictatorial_Flair: untaken_name: I wonder what crime they're going to charge the boat with so they get to keep it.

Illegal entrance into the country.


didn't you hear?  That's not a crime you get in trouble for anymore.
 
2013-02-22 07:37:27 PM  

Ace Rimmer: A Customs agent with an axe to grind would have invited him to watch his boat being taken apart by a sawsall looking for drugs

Tricking him into signing a form that is going to spend the rest of its life disintegrating in a cardboard box would be pointless.


Not every abuse has to be a full bore, immediate one.

How does anyone know which forms will be filed in a cardboard box never to be seen again, and thus OK to fudge a few numbers on, versus a form that could be scrutinized for some reason years later?
 
2013-02-22 08:04:29 PM  

ciberido: jpk_ks: ERNesbitt: ciberido:
If you really want a simple paradigm that somewhat explains how liberals and conservatives think, try this one:  Both liberals and conservatives care deeply about fairness, but the problem is, they see fairness differently.  For liberals, fairness is about EQUALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical liberal might say, "that this guy here dines on caviar every day, while this women over here struggles to afford milk and bread."  For conservatives, fairness is about PROPORTIONALITY.  "It's not fair," your hypothetical conservative might say, "that this guy only works part-time 20 hours a week, and this woman puts in 80-hour weeks, but then the government takes money away from this hard-working woman and gives it to this lazy bum who didn't earn it."

I agree to an extent. Conservative "fairness" is trying to treat everyone equal, while liberal "fairness" is trying to make everyone equal. Which view you take depends on your perception of the role of government.

I would endorse the ERNesbitt's statement - it's that whole 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome' question.  Admittedly, I'm biased as someone who tends towards the conservative side.

And again, yes, this is the issue from the Conservatives' point of view.  The Conservative take on it is it's a question of 'equality of opportunity' vs 'equality of outcome'.   Of course, once you frame it that way, the Conservative way does some both more fair and more realistic.

You must understand, of course, that not everyone agrees with the way you framed it.


I do understand that my way of framing it is truly reductive reasoning on both sides of the equation, absolutely.  As I said, I'm biased.  I've yet to find anyone who disagrees with having 'equality of opportunity' for all in life - regardless of ideological association.  It's the common conservative indictment of the left using the 'equality of outcome' statement - an old fashioned troll attempt, maybe, but not intended in this case.
 
2013-02-22 08:17:47 PM  

pedrop357: Ace Rimmer: A Customs agent with an axe to grind would have invited him to watch his boat being taken apart by a sawsall looking for drugs

Tricking him into signing a form that is going to spend the rest of its life disintegrating in a cardboard box would be pointless.

Not every abuse has to be a full bore, immediate one.

How does anyone know which forms will be filed in a cardboard box never to be seen again, and thus OK to fudge a few numbers on, versus a form that could be scrutinized for some reason years later?


It's a government form. That is its only reason for being ;-)

Someone mentioned up yonder that he should have gotten a customs broker. That is all they do is wander the labyrinthine entry process.

Other then that, it's a government form.

When you were filling out the form did you think you put the right number down?

When you signed it did you still think you had it all correct?

Did you answer yes to both of these questions?

Congratulations! You just beat the rap!

It's trivial. In fact, if you want to fault the officer, she should have just let him make his changes and be done with it.
 
2013-02-22 08:25:32 PM  

GoodyearPimp: People with lots of money sure do have lots of terrible problems.  "I can't take ownership of my boat due to some legalities."  Thanks, Obama.


Was it Obama that started the strangely named "Homeland Security"  who's name instantaneously reminded us all of the Nazi's when it began?
That's funny, I thought it was...  Gilligan.
 
2013-02-22 08:38:08 PM  
Hopefully the authorities aren't bringing a bunch of sea men on board that ship.  What? It's a known fact, it takes a lot of time to clean up after all the authority's sea men.
 
2013-02-22 08:41:08 PM  

xria: Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.

Have you considered that the point of view of the potential boat owner might be biased, and he might be trying to paint the DHS in a more negative light?


I find it entirely believable. Have you ever seen any police reality type shows - the kind like COPS or Border Wars on NatGeo?

I remember one Border Wars episode in particular. A dog hit on a car crossing the border and the agent pulls it aside and starts ripping it apart - literally ripping it apart, not just disassembling it. She gleefully rips into it and practically has an orgasm when she finds drugs. And the after work the agents all get together to celebrate.

Their whole reason for existing is not to stop drugs. It is to bust people and seize property. If we somehow won the drug war and no more drugs were ever smuggled across the border they wouldn't feel a sense of victory. They would slip into a deep depression and probably commit suicide.
 
2013-02-22 08:55:49 PM  

Happy Hours: xria: Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her.

This is the part that galls me, perhaps the most. Putting seizure authority in the hands of resentful idots who should rightfully be bagging groceries is a bad idea, and telling them they're some kind of Super Patriots protecting America from terrorists is worse.

Have you considered that the point of view of the potential boat owner might be biased, and he might be trying to paint the DHS in a more negative light?

I find it entirely believable. Have you ever seen any police reality type shows - the kind like COPS or Border Wars on NatGeo?

I remember one Border Wars episode in particular. A dog hit on a car crossing the border and the agent pulls it aside and starts ripping it apart - literally ripping it apart, not just disassembling it. She gleefully rips into it and practically has an orgasm when she finds drugs. And the after work the agents all get together to celebrate.

Their whole reason for existing is not to stop drugs. It is to bust people and seize property. If we somehow won the drug war and no more drugs were ever smuggled across the border they wouldn't feel a sense of victory. They would slip into a deep depression and probably commit suicide.


Well there is a difference between Customs at the boarder and Customs when you're doing trade.
 
2013-02-22 09:11:25 PM  

redmid17: Amur


Well, to be fair, the calumet river was the same way back in the 50s and 60s.  The water and the surrounding beaches have cleaned up great, and the past two summers you could see 10ft or more to the bottom maybe 100yards offshore.  Other than the low lake levels, the water itself is in great shape.
 
2013-02-22 09:19:18 PM  

Ace Rimmer: bunner: Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.

Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.

Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.

You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )

You aren't to bright are you?


*too
 
2013-02-22 09:21:48 PM  

ERNesbitt: Ace Rimmer: bunner: Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.

Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.

Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.

You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )

You aren't to bright are you?

*too


ERN?  Izzat you?
 
2013-02-22 09:54:12 PM  

Amurica...Fark Ya!: redmid17: Amur

Well, to be fair, the calumet river was the same way back in the 50s and 60s.  The water and the surrounding beaches have cleaned up great, and the past two summers you could see 10ft or more to the bottom maybe 100yards offshore.  Other than the low lake levels, the water itself is in great shape.


True but the Calumet river doesn't run through downtown Chicago like the cuyahoga does to cleveland.
 
2013-02-22 10:18:04 PM  

bunner: ERNesbitt: Ace Rimmer: bunner: Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.

Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.

Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.

You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )

You aren't to bright are you?

*too

ERN?  Izzat you?


Good lord, they've come for my lunch money =-O
 
2013-02-22 10:29:19 PM  

Ace Rimmer: bunner: ERNesbitt: Ace Rimmer: bunner: Ace Rimmer: Naw, what's precious is hi ts outraged you are about the system and yet you have no idea how the system even works.

Ace Rimmer: If Customs wants to fark you over they don't need to play gotcha by dinking around with a form.

Well, as long as they CAN.

Ace Rimmer: And if Customs is trying to help you clear your stuff the easy way you farking let them.

You have boot polish on your chin.  Did you know?   :  )

You aren't to bright are you?

*too

ERN?  Izzat you?

Good lord, they've come for my lunch money =-O


i89.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-22 10:54:48 PM  

animalmagnet: How about "We think you were going to use it to smuggle drugs." They keep your boat, and they don't have to prove anything.


That or magically find a kilo of weed. Or a seed. Or... No you are right. They don't even bother with that anymore. Suspicion.
 
2013-02-22 10:54:59 PM  

orclover: So in other words some douchebag has no idea how the world works?  I went into this story hoping to have sympathy for the victim, but honestly, he's a farking idiot.  She wasn't looking for a bribe, she wasnt willing to spend time or risk punishment for trying to correct a problem that was not her farking problem..

SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

/seriously fark this guy.



Leave my planet (or at least my country) NOW, asshole.  We do NOT need more of your kind.  You're the worst kind of scum on this planet.
 
2013-02-22 11:19:06 PM  

TOSViolation: orclover: So in other words some douchebag has no idea how the world works?  I went into this story hoping to have sympathy for the victim, but honestly, he's a farking idiot.  She wasn't looking for a bribe, she wasnt willing to spend time or risk punishment for trying to correct a problem that was not her farking problem..

SHES PAID $9 A farkING HOUR AND DOES NOT GIVE A fark, she hands you something, you sign it, she moves on to her smoke break.  If you rich farking idiots cant figure that out, then you lose your farking boat you farking assholes.  Yes hire a lawyer,  get righteously indignant.  All you are doing is making that boat even more farking expensive.  I hope the farking thing sinks and you get eaten by some god damn sockeye.

/seriously fark this guy.


Leave my planet (or at least my country) NOW, asshole.  We do NOT need more of your kind.  You're the worst kind of scum on this planet.


I always thought the worst kind was soap.
 
2013-02-22 11:22:31 PM  

ck1938: He voted for Obama. Piss on him.


I voted for Obama. I'd piss on you, unless you were on fire.
 
2013-02-23 12:23:45 AM  
Okay, remind me again, who's this Obama chick and is she hot?
 
2013-02-23 01:59:38 AM  
I suspect the dude is leaving out part of the story.
 
2013-02-23 02:11:39 AM  

Ace Rimmer: pedrop357: Ace Rimmer: A Customs agent with an axe to grind would have invited him to watch his boat being taken apart by a sawsall looking for drugs

Tricking him into signing a form that is going to spend the rest of its life disintegrating in a cardboard box would be pointless.

Not every abuse has to be a full bore, immediate one.

How does anyone know which forms will be filed in a cardboard box never to be seen again, and thus OK to fudge a few numbers on, versus a form that could be scrutinized for some reason years later?

It's a government form. That is its only reason for being ;-)

Someone mentioned up yonder that he should have gotten a customs broker. That is all they do is wander the labyrinthine entry process.

Other then that, it's a government form.

When you were filling out the form did you think you put the right number down?

When you signed it did you still think you had it all correct?

Did you answer yes to both of these questions?

Congratulations! You just beat the rap!

It's trivial. In fact, if you want to fault the officer, she should have just let him make his changes and be done with it.


Ahhh, I always knew there was something wrong with conservatives like you, and you just nailed it. No integrity, it's all about the ends justifying the means. He knew it was wrong, so no, if he wouldn't lie about it in the first place, he wouldn't lie about it if asked again.

I'm starting to think you'd be perfectly fine with bribery, as long as it made things go smoother for you.
 
2013-02-23 03:14:01 AM  
Did he believe he was filling it out correctly? Yes

Did he sign it believing it was filed out correctly? Yes

Was it accepted? Yes

Was there any mention of bribery until you showed up? No
 
2013-02-23 08:23:39 AM  

Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.


One of the OTHER rules is that if you lie on a Federal form, you go to jail. His decision to buy a boat obviously caused that to be the case, right? No, wait, I know, he's responsible for putting incorrect and inaccurate information on the form, right? Oh, no, that wasn't him either. Interesting. I guess you're still just wrong.
 
2013-02-23 10:29:52 AM  
It occurs to me that perhaps she was actually in the right here.  Who prepared the form?  If it wasn't their mistake they can't fix it.
 
2013-02-23 11:54:44 AM  

untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: untaken_name: Ace Rimmer: Any financial loss he is incurring now is completely of his own making.

So he made the rules? Interesting. You don't know what most words mean, do you? "Completely" is a pretty simple one. Look it up.

He is importing a boat.
There are rules about importing a boat.
One of those rules is he sign a form.
He refused to sign the form.

Completely of his own making.

One of the OTHER rules is that if you lie on a Federal form, you go to jail. His decision to buy a boat obviously caused that to be the case, right? No, wait, I know, he's responsible for putting incorrect and inaccurate information on the form, right? Oh, no, that wasn't him either. Interesting. I guess you're still just wrong.


He didn't put wrong information on his form. He put down the value in Canadian dollars instead US dollars. His information was correct, accurate and clearly annotated.

Did he believe what he was writing on the form was the truth?

Did he still believe it was true when he signed it?

And I guess there in lies the problem. He brought it to the officers attention, commendable. The officer looked at it, looked at his paperwork, and declared that it was acceptable.

After he would have signed it, she would have signed it swearing to the exact same thing he did. If the big, bad, scary government is coming for any one it will be the GS-wage monkey.

The form has to be an uncorrected original. Why? Because it's Customs, it just does.

You can't sign them in red, that form has to be in triplicate, you can submit photo copies of that form but not this one...

Why? Because it's Customs.

He had it explained to him at least twice that his paper work was acceptable and he still refused to turn it in.

Completely.his.making
 
2013-02-23 12:25:58 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: ck1938: He voted for Obama. Piss on him.

I voted for Obama. I'd piss on you, unless you were on fire.


Don't be upset him, he can't help it: he drives an old Mitsubishi Eclipse,
 
2013-02-23 12:30:17 PM  

Bucky Katt: I suspect the dude is leaving out part of the story.


They ALWAYS do.
Every time, without fail, consistantly, and reliably.
 
2013-02-23 01:32:15 PM  

Ace Rimmer: He didn't put wrong information on his form. He put down the value in Canadian dollars instead US dollars. His information was correct, accurate and clearly annotated.


Um... "The primary form, prepared by the government, had an error. The price was copied from the invoice, but DHS changed the currency from Canadian to U.S. dollars."

The form was not filled out by him, but by Customs.

The price was not correct- the numbers were correct, but it was the wrong currency.
 
2013-02-23 01:59:50 PM  
A trivial mistake that changed nothing on the form. Nobody is going to the big house over this.

So when government documents, with your signature on them, pop up covered in white out, you will just let it slide?
 
2013-02-23 03:41:17 PM  

Ace Rimmer: A trivial mistake that changed nothing on the form. Nobody is going to the big house over this.

So when government documents, with your signature on them, pop up covered in white out, you will just let it slide?


maybe not jail, but possible fines in the future.
 
2013-02-23 03:57:44 PM  

Ace Rimmer: He didn't put wrong information on his form. He put down the value in Canadian dollars instead US dollars. His information was correct, accurate and clearly annotated.


Why do you keep perpetuating this bullshiat when the article clearly states that it was the customs people who put the inaccurate information on the form? Oh, right, because to admit the truth would be to admit that your entire premise is completely false. And why would you let the facts get in the way of your story? Unfortunately for you, repeating a lie does not make it true. You are still completely wrong.
 
2013-02-23 04:00:19 PM  

Ace Rimmer: A trivial mistake that changed nothing on the form. Nobody is going to the big house over this.

So when government documents, with your signature on them, pop up covered in white out, you will just let it slide?


Ok. I tell you what, you give me $500 US and I'll give you 500 Somali shillings. Changing the currency changes nothing, right?
 
2013-02-23 04:32:43 PM  

untaken_name: Ok. I tell you what, you give me $500 US and I'll give you 500 Somali shillings. Changing the currency changes nothing, right?


British pounds or Euros makes it more interesting than CAD.

Surely nothing bad will ever come from signing a form that says $328,000 instead of £328,000 or $500,000.

Nope, Ace Rimmer has assured all of us that that form will languish in a cardboard box never to be looked at again.
 
2013-02-23 04:52:16 PM  

pedrop357: Nope, Ace Rimmer has assured all of us that that form will languish in a cardboard box never to be looked at again.


And obviously he is Mr. Lawyer, Ace Attorney at Importin' Stuff.
 
2013-02-25 10:56:59 AM  
The customs agent sounds fat. and black.
 
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