If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(ABC Local)   In a small Pennsylvania suburb, your neighbor's two friendly dogs escape and end up on your land. Naturally, your only option is to murder the dogs and then leave a taunting voicemail for the dogs owners   (abclocal.go.com) divider line 108
    More: Asinine, Pennsylvania, Chester Co., suburbs, Gabriel Pilotti, Mary Boch  
•       •       •

9950 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 4:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-02-22 05:30:01 AM  
7 votes:

TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.


Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.
2013-02-22 05:42:07 AM  
5 votes:

offmymeds: Read this article from Philly.com.


Yes, it does make it more clear.  Thank you.  The dogs weren't merely on the mans property.  They dogs were in and amongst the mans livestock.  This sounds more like suburbia encroaching on rural farm land and ignorant city folk not knowing how things work in the country.  I have pets and I have farm animals.  I also would not hesitate shooting any animal if I found them amongst or chasing my livestock.
2013-02-22 04:59:26 AM  
5 votes:
Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.
2013-02-22 12:10:53 AM  
5 votes:
Another responsible gun owner heard from.
2013-02-22 12:03:39 AM  
5 votes:
I'm still kind of disappointed the whole Mayan apocalypse thing didn't happen.

Humanity really is just a virus with shoes, and maybe it's time the roaches took over.
2013-02-22 05:25:32 AM  
4 votes:
It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.
2013-02-22 05:24:46 AM  
4 votes:
In cases like this the dogs' owners should get a "get out of jail free card". They get to do whatever twisted, farked-up thing they want to the d'bag that killed their dogs.
2013-02-22 12:15:05 PM  
3 votes:

rustypouch: But then, people who claim their dogs are like family, and keep them for affection, tend to be damaged. Unable to form meaningful relationships with other people, they meet their need to feel loved by exploiting the pack instincts of animals and through training them, often with abuse used to induce desired behaviors.


Coming from someone that has never had a dog.  Do you really think you can abuse a dog to make it do what you want?  Can I make generalizations just like you?  Everyone that owns a gun only has one because they have a very small penis and need something to make them feel better about themself.
2013-02-22 12:11:33 PM  
3 votes:

rustypouch: they meet their need to feel loved by exploiting the pack instincts of animals and through training the

m, often with abuse used to induce desired behaviors.

You're at least 10000 years late.  Domesticated dogs aren't trained to show affection to people, they're bred for it, and they don't need to be abused for it.
2013-02-22 12:01:08 PM  
3 votes:
Nowhere in the article does it state this douchebag lost any sheep to the dogs in question. No mention of any sheep being hurt THAT day (just in the past), so he over-reacted, period. If the article had stated that they had already injured or killed one or more sheep, okay then. But there is no mention of that. Since he didn't know that these were the same dogs, unless he observed them attacking his sheep (not just stalking them), he could've exercised some discretion and gone outside and fired some warning shots near the dogs. These were domesticated pets...and they WOULD have bolted. Hell, wolves in the wild would probably bolt if you fired a shotgun in the air close to them. LOUD NOISES scare the crap out of anything except dogs trained for hunting, e.g. labs. My own lab-mix hears a loud car and she freaks out. Not many dogs can ignore fireworks. So, unless these were hunting dogs and trained to sit still when a shot gun goes off, if this idiot had simply fired a warning shot, they would've likely turned tail and ran.

Look, just because someone has the right to do something like "defend his property" with this level of force doesn't make it the right thing to do. This guy either was purposely being an anti-dog dickwad, or he went into panic mode without even thinking (the taped phone message makes it sound like the former).

Finally, whenever these kind of threads pop up here on Fark, it always ends up being an argument between people who view dogs as "things" and "not human so why do you give so much of a shiat" and others, like me, who view their dogs as family members. Neither side is gonna budge on this point. You either appreciate and love dogs for the wonderful creatures they are (with qualities few humans exhibit, e.g. loyalty, forgiveness, unconditional love) or you think they are no better than pet turtles or, worse yet, inanimate things. Frankly, as I've stated on a previous thread, if I ran into a burning building and saw a person (I didn't know) and a dog, I'd rescue the dog first. I have met damn few dogs I didn't like and way too many people who I can't stand.
2013-02-22 10:45:08 AM  
3 votes:

lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely


This.  As a dog owner, etc, the law is the law.  The rancher's opinion was that the dogs were harassing his livestock, he has every right to protect his animals.

Don't like it?  Be a responsible pet owner.
2013-02-22 09:58:38 AM  
3 votes:

doglover: cc_rider: He really couldn't have called them to come get their dogs before he shot two family pets?

We don't know the dogs weren't worrying livestock. Farmers shoot pests. That includes kids and tax men.

I agree that it could spark a blood feud if they were just family pets, but I used to have a dachshund who could kill a sparrow in mid-flight. That dog was a stone cold killer. Scale it up to a collie and you're lookin' at baby alpaca in danger and mommas losing their... foal? What the hell is a baby alpaca called?

I'm reserving judgement until I hear both sides. THEN I'll overreact and rain hyperbole down like it was mere exaggeration.


I think this guy WANTED to kill the dogs. The fact that he knew those dogs and also left a voice message like that to the owners lends me to believe it his actions were more than purely just a farmer protecting his lifestock. He probably knows he could get away with it and he decided to get his rocks off.
This is the type of 'responsible' gun owners no different than the one who murdered the Japanese kid dressed in Haloween custome so many years ago.. same type of mentality.
2013-02-22 09:29:37 AM  
3 votes:
Five years from now, when the "Home Owners Association" makes this farmer's life miserable because of the smell of his farm in the middle of a subdivision, he is going to cry about how he always tried to get along with the neighbors and everybody is picking on him.

Sorry, bud. You don't live in 1872 on the frontier, you live in an area where farmers and non-farmers live in close proximity. If you don't want to spend your life in court, and fixing fences that mysteriously fall down, better learn to deal with neighbors...and their pets.
2013-02-22 08:33:23 AM  
3 votes:

The Snow Dog: zenferret: 1. Dogs near livestock are "obviously upsetting"? Ever hear of sheep dogs?



Here's the crazy thing about sheep dogs though, they are bred to manage sheep. They also are around the sheep for the majority of the sheeps lives. It is a known entity in the mind of the sheep. Sheep knows dog=no stress. Sheep doesn't know dog=possible predator and stranger danger.

For instance: my step-mother had a Rottweiler that grew up with a whitetail deer she kept as a pet. The Rottweiler and deer would hang out, eat together etc. the deer was part of the pack and the rotty was part of the herd. Her other dog that was a latecomer to the house would absolutely freak out the deer.

You are giving the sheep WAY to much credit for being able to discern "friendly dog because he's someone's pet" and "predator who is going to eat me".

Also, multiple dogs become a "pack" and when the predator instinct kicks in, god help the "prey". It can be triggered by running (which is something an animal would do when confronted by a strange predator), so your thought that "Teh sheeps should have KNOWN they weren't there to eat them!!!" is naive at best. You apparently have no concept of the predator/prey relationship and how animals have developed defenses to keep from being lunch.

In this situation, the owner of the farm had every right to kill nuisance animals.
2013-02-22 07:31:40 AM  
3 votes:

offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.


Never trust a man who has his 'roommate' speak for him.
2013-02-22 06:11:07 AM  
3 votes:

The Snow Dog: If the dogs were not attacking the sheep then the guy is a complete douchebag.


I know this may surprise you but is it not necessary for the offending animal to be "attacking the livestock" in order for me the livestock owner to dispatch said animal.  That the animal is spooking is provocation enough.  The stress of having a predator in their midst will/can cause the livestock to stop producing that which they produce.  This is the reason for laws such as these.

Keep your animals off my property and I won't let my livestock onto yours.  Deal?
2013-02-22 05:44:00 AM  
3 votes:
2013-02-22 05:28:12 AM  
3 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.


lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely


They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped. Read this article from Philly.com. It's better written and will give you a better idea of what exactly happened.
2013-02-22 05:15:58 AM  
3 votes:
It sounds like it's very likely these dogs were harrassing the livestock. Unfortunately that can happen when you keep a predator as a pet.

 As far as "scaring" them off, I don't know if you've ever tried it, but when a dog is in "predation" mode not much registers beyond his immediate focus. Maybe, *maybe* if you chucked a big enough rock into his backside he might look up at you...before going back to doing what he was doing. I suppose there are a few dogs out there that might stop and come in, but most of them are pretty intense.

 And good luck with running them down. Even a basset hound can out run a human.

 There usually aren't many good options in this case. It generally sucks all the way around.

/damn.
2013-02-22 02:58:05 AM  
3 votes:
Funny, he seemed to know exactly who those dogs belonged to. He really couldn't have called them to come get their dogs before he shot two family pets?

I don't care what the law says, I would make his life a living hell, if he did that to my dogs. Farking psycho.
2013-02-22 04:49:32 PM  
2 votes:

KanedaJD: fuhfuhfuh: KanedaJD: Based on the few facts we actually have, it's obvious that you have re-imagined this entire event to fit your personal fantasy. You have written several paragraphs mostly containing either hyperbole, complete fiction, or irresponsible speculation. It contributes absolutely nothing. The only 'douche bags' involved in this so far are the people who are expressing nonsense like yours.

Based on re-reading the story and the apparent updates, looks like dog shooter was charged by the cops for animal cruelty and endangerment since one of the dogs was shot to death running back to its home, he shot towards his neighbor's house. So yeah, guy is turning out to be more and more of a douche bag. One more asshole, one more shot.

Being charged with something doesn't mean they're guilty of it. It doesn't excuse the amount of bullshiat being thrown around in here.


Did you read any of the updates or further developments in the story? Here:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130222_Chesco_sheep_own er _charged_in_killing_of_two_dogs.html

Doesn't look like bullshiat to me.
2013-02-22 04:42:46 PM  
2 votes:
2013-02-22 03:15:08 PM  
2 votes:

Lor M. Ipsum: Nutsac_Jim: I like how the pussbucket is afraid to answer the phone and door now.
Surely if his argument is just, he can answer questions from the press.

I'm not sure what kind of questions need to be answered here.  Dogs were on his property with his livestock.  Dogs got shot.


Just one important question: Why did he let the dogs into the sheep pen?
The enclosure was not accessible by the dogs without help form someone who could open it, guess who opened the gate, lead them into the pen and then shot them? Go on, guess.
2013-02-22 01:52:17 PM  
2 votes:
Don't know if its been said yet but Bernese are the gentlest most docile dog I know off. I never seen one get aggressive towards another animal unless the owner was some how in danger. I personally just think the farmer didn't like the dogs on his property. Thus why he made the shiatty phone call.

At the same time, don't let your dogs run loose unsupervised.
2013-02-22 01:44:14 PM  
2 votes:
I like how the pussbucket is afraid to answer the phone and door now.
Surely if his argument is just, he can answer questions from the press.
2013-02-22 12:49:27 PM  
2 votes:

swahnhennessy: AverageAmericanGuy: Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.

On a farm? Really?


Yes Virginia, really.

All too many pet owners have that innate stupidity about them.  They act like those parents at the restaurant that think that everyone should be amused by their screaming crotchfruit because, well, they're just so cute.  They play with them while looking around and expecting other people to look and smile.  Yep... pet owners are a lot like that.
2013-02-22 12:40:55 PM  
2 votes:
This Gabe Pillotti guy should consider himself lucky. There's a lot of dog owners out there who would make him regret this decision forever. If some bad press and a woman driving past his house screaming "Dog Killer" are the worst that happens to him, he got off very light.

/just saying. Fair warning to all of you. I know it's wrong. I know I'm damaged. Kill my dogs and see what happens to you.
2013-02-22 12:35:14 PM  
2 votes:
What makes this an asshole story is not the shooting of the dogs, but the rather cavalier, almost taunting message left with the owners. The kind of message that makes you want to respond with "One more asshole, one more shot".
2013-02-22 12:29:38 PM  
2 votes:
Funny, 'friendly dogs' is how rottweilers are often described by their owners. They may be friendly to you but that doesn't mean they're friendly to me. Opinions vary. Don't like a your dogs being shot? Don't let them out. Build a better fence or get a stronger chain.
2013-02-22 12:27:31 PM  
2 votes:
So another asshole exercises his "rights" without stopping to think whether what he is doing is actually right or not.
As a consequence, restrictive laws will be made, and people will have slightly fewer rights.
Assholes ruin everything for everybody - just by being dicks when they don't have to.
2013-02-22 11:58:15 AM  
2 votes:
Controlling your animals is important, and if this was a case of dogs repeatedly escaping their property and owners who did not take responsibility for their actions, I would not have much issue with it, other than those peopple being bad owners.

Assuming that these people are somehow serial offenders with no history or knowledge of them is pretty shiat7y, even by fark conservatives and teatards. Its nice to ride that high horse until you fall off, you know absolutely nothing other than what people have posted here most likely and have followed a trail o f assumption using your own misguided logic to make judgements that have no base in reality about these people, this incident, or the dogs. Go ahead, pat yourselves on t he back for being terds in life.
2013-02-22 11:37:44 AM  
2 votes:

offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.


QFT
2013-02-22 11:34:31 AM  
2 votes:
Knowledge is a big deal in this...

First - two dogs had attacked his livestock and killed sheep and an alpaca...   they were not these dogs, they were not this breed.

Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.

The sheep were in an enclosure that really could only be accessed by a human, they were basically let in by "someone"...
Although they were pets, this is a murder, a heinous destruction with premeditation and malice of forethought of life.
2013-02-22 11:29:35 AM  
2 votes:
THIS IS DIRECTLY FROM THE OWNER OF ARGUS & FIONA. IF FOR KNOW OTHER REASON, PLEASE READ TO KEEP YOUR OWN DOGS SAFE:
Just wanted to clear a few things up here and let people know why we are exposing this story in this way: We are not the type of people that are 100% comfortable with this type of attention, however if something good can come from this awful tragedy it will be well worth it and it will give our dogs short life a purpose. To us this is a question of humanity. Weather you are an animal lover or not, I know that I personally do not want to live in a world where you can not trust that you or your pets's lives are in danger from your neighbor. Yes, we do feel guilt about not knowing the piece of our fence was damaged. From the time the dogs got out, until the time they were dead was 15 minutes. For 10 of those minutes, I was in active pursuit, even driving by Gabe's house. Not knowing of course that just a few feet away from me, my dogs were splattered all over his yard.

There are many questions about what happened that are not out there because they are theories that can not be proven. Like how my dogs got into Mr. pilotti's sheep pen area. The fence was high and the dogs had never jumped a fence before. Our male definitely had the physical ability to jump it so its possible, but the female did not. The police said that from how they found the bodies, Argus was staring him in the face when Gabe shot him point blank from close range. If Argus was standing looking at Gabe, how could he be pursuing the sheep. As Gabe reloaded the gun, Fiona tried to run and was ultimately executed cowering up against the fence, according to the police. If she so easily jumped in the pen, why didn't she jump out to escape? The speculation from many, including authorities is that Gabe opened the gate to let them in so that it was "legal for him to kill them" He was well aware of the law and stated it to the police as soon as they arrived. Then, if you heard the message, called a neighbor to brag about it. This pure evilness is why we are fighting to make a difference. This law does serve a purpose for sure, but needs to be amended. Maybe just the verbiage, "pursuing" is a broad term.

This is not only an animal rights issue but also a human issue. This will happen again, maybe not in the same way, but probably with this same individual. Having the law on his side, in his mind, makes the choices he made that day ok. Most people would not abuse this law, but because of Gabe Pilotti we are reminded that people can be very cruel and unfortunately we cannot trust in humanity to always make the best decision. Thank you for all the support on this page. To anyone who's dog has ever escaped your yard, even for a few minutes, this should matter to you.
2013-02-22 11:10:02 AM  
2 votes:
Benjamin Orr:

Or you could be responsible and keep your pets under your control or contained.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are unfamiliar with dogs, pigs, horses, goats, cows and children. If we executed every one that ever went where it shouldn't, there wouldn't be any left.

None of us know enough about this particular circumstance to decide if killing the dogs was warranted or not, but my gut feeling is that the farmer was an industrial-strength dick who did it unnecessarily, and the dog owners were suburban yuppy types who post about their moral outrages on Facebook and sign petitions rather than actually doing anything.
2013-02-22 10:58:37 AM  
2 votes:
Y'know, if a pair of large dogs were in with my sheep, I'd be freaking nervous, too. The sheep would also be nervous. Most dogs are not blessed with herding instincts. That said, I can't blame the shepherd for shooting the dogs. He may have known who the dogs belonged to, but that doesn't mean he knew what the dogs were intending to do.

That said, he should not have been a dick about it.

And he could have filled their rumps with shot, rather than killed them. That's what my dad did to a dog that was legitimately in with the flock years ago. In that case, there were lambs involved, one of which died. Of fear. We never did learn out who the dog belonged to, but it did get away, albeit with some lead in its hide. Which it earned.

Other neighbor dogs have gotten in with the sheep over the years, but they've been smaller and have been run off in other ways. There was that beagle who was ultimately banished by a fierce barn cat. And then there was the neighbor's frou-frou dog who, thankfully, decided he did not want to take on our pen of rams. The rams would have won that one. Our own dogs, who are not sheep dogs, know not to bother the sheep. (Our rescue got in with the ewe flock once. She escaped with bruises and a good life lesson. The sheep in my family's flock do not mess around. Also, they have horns, which helps.)

Oh, where was I going with this? Oh yeah. Sometimes you have to defend your animals. It's your responsibility to keep them safe. Just... don't be a dick about it.
2013-02-22 09:15:28 AM  
2 votes:

Tatterdemalian: The Snow Dog: The great thing about being human is that we have brains we can use t o make decisions with. If you don't want to use yours, great. But you do n't have to make up stuff. Just say: Dogs were on my property, I felt like killing them. Don't act like you're a hero.

Sadly, the problem with being human is that if you're not a hero, you're a villain that will quickly be subject to the modern equivalent of the Salem Witch-Burning Team. Which you seem intent on rallying, to prove my point.

/and shooting the dogs was still the correct decision
//just because you think the Disney Universal Animal Language exists doesn't mean it's more real than any invisible sky wizard


It may have been; it may not have been. I don't think it was the correct decision. And your assertion that I think of things in Disneyesque scenarios is laughable. I grew up hunting and have been around ranches and guns my entire life. I've seen ranchers that had mean dogs that had to be taught to stay away from livestock. I've had black labs that we took to hunting leases that would run and sniff every cow or goat in a quarter-mile of the main house. Nobody ever got all-fired up to put a bullet in their heads because they were doing no harm.

You're saying those happy, investigative dogs should have been shot.

I'm saying that you should take each case and make a decision as to whether there is any real threat before you go blowing sh*t up. It MIGHT have been the correct decision. It MIGHT not've.

/Rational thought, how does it farking work?


i0.kym-cdn.com
2013-02-22 09:04:17 AM  
2 votes:
I hope the farmer dies a slow and painful death, preferably alone.
2013-02-22 08:40:53 AM  
2 votes:
What a P.O.S., he even knew whose pets they were.
2013-02-22 08:06:42 AM  
2 votes:

zenferret: The Snow Dog: If you'll read the comments above you'll see I said that, if the dogs actually were attacking the livestock, then good for the farmer for protecting his livestock. I also said you'd be the pentultimate douche if the dogs were just in there sniffing around or playing and you walked up and shot them. We'll never know unless there is security camera footage we don't know about.

It's actually irrelevant. The dogs were in the pen with the sheep. This is obviously upsetting to the livestock.

The Snow Dog: If you're the type of ferretty douche that would leap at the chance to get in some sweet, sweet dog-killing just because they dare tread on your property: then fark you in the goat-ass.

Oh, so he should have waited until the dogs actually began attacking the sheep? That makes YOU the douche, sir. Do you let your kids play with a gun right up until they shoot themselves with it, too?


1. Dogs near livestock are "obviously upsetting"? Ever hear of sheep dogs?

2. If the dogs were already in the pen and they were not attacking or acting aggressively then they would likely not attack the sheep. You ever seen a dog get into it with something? They usually make a bee-line towards whatever they're getting into it with and jump on it. Sometimes there's a face-off before the attack if it's something like a dog or badger or something, or in the case of a sheep-like animal that animal may try to flee and will trigger an attack reflex. Most of this is going to happen relatively quickly, though.

Also, the fact that the guy used a single-shot shotgun means that:
A. The dogs likely weren't attacking his sheep or he would've likely hit his sheep. (It's a shotgun.)
B. He had time to kill one dog and reload before he killed the other dog. If the other dog had been attacking it must have been really slow, as over all this elapsed time it still hasn't made it tothe sheep it's attacking.

And some of your compadre's arguments that the dogs scaring the sheep can cause all kinds of health and pregnancy problems---LOL!--what the fark do you think blowing off shotgun blasts into their midst will do? Make them calm and fart rainbows?
2013-02-22 08:03:47 AM  
2 votes:
This is farm life, and I understand it even though I've never lived on one.

And to the people that anthropomorphize dogs: they are barely domesticated animals, not your children. I even like (most) dogs, but calling this murder is farking laughable.

Didn't read most of the story, so if the neighbor did leave a VM like that, then that makes him s douche, not the shooting.
2013-02-22 07:23:09 AM  
2 votes:
I would kneecap that asshole, consequences be damned.
2013-02-22 06:59:22 AM  
2 votes:
"He had other options," Boch said. "He could have yelled or scared them. He picked up the gun and killed them."

So you're saying he has other options, but they're all options that in no way even begin to address his problem (stray dogs killing his sheep)?

Yeah, thanks, moron.

Honestly, I not only don't really have a problem with this, I would place the blame for the death of the dogs on the morons that didn't properly contain their farking pets.  When you let your dogs uncontrolled off of your property, you are responsible for their inevitable death, as well as any destruction which they cause.  Given the very real problem that strays can be even in urban areas, you're also a horrible person in general as well as a horrible pet owner.

//Dogs are not people, they're property, and destroying them is an entirely reasonable act under all the conditions that destroying property would be.  If you leave your kid's art project on your neighbor's lawn and he takes it for trash and throws it out, that's your fault too.
//Anyone who does not understand that a dog is not a person and uses human-only words like "murdered" when discussing them is far too irresponsible to be trusted with owning a dog.
2013-02-22 06:30:00 AM  
2 votes:

offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.


what these two said, and i hope farmer gets ass cancer. slow, painful ass cancer.
2013-02-22 06:26:41 AM  
2 votes:

The Snow Dog: Bread dogs are really docile. I say this is conclusive proof that the old coot acted rashly.
Also $1,000 for a dog is NOT expensive. Would I pay it? No. But that doesn't seem excessively extravagant.


Bread dogs? Is there some yeast thing that makes them manageable? Whatever though - no, because you type something does not make it conclusive proof. Everybody says there pet is the sweetest animal in the world that would not hurt a fly.

FWIW, I would not be surprised if the alpaca guy is a bit of a whack. I will concede that. It is possible that a super soaker gun could have accomplished the same result without the death of the dog. Then again, this is PA.
dartstrike.com

PA is one major gun loving and hunting state. It is often joked that the opening of deer hunting season in PA is akin to a state holiday - (seriously....this is true). The point being that any person with any pet in PA has to be aware that there is a culture there that worships hunting, guns and blasting animals with those guns. Any live animal that is on another person's property is a target. If that "farmer's" alpacas had gotten loose, they could just as easily suffer the same fate.

And and yean...if you spend $1k+ on a dog, you are an idiot, trophy animal collector. If you need a working dog (farm herding type, seeing eye, medical assistant etc), then fine, I can certainly see that. If you live in some mcmansion in a burbs and are lamenting on TV about your purebred animal while playing a recorded phone message from your iPhone, I tend to not have a lot of sympathy,
2013-02-22 06:10:34 AM  
2 votes:

syzygy whizz: cuzsis: It sounds like it's very likely these dogs were harrassing the livestock. Unfortunately that can happen when you keep a predator as a pet.

 As far as "scaring" them off, I don't know if you've ever tried it, but when a dog is in "predation" mode not much registers beyond his immediate focus. Maybe, *maybe* if you chucked a big enough rock into his backside he might look up at you...before going back to doing what he was doing. I suppose there are a few dogs out there that might stop and come in, but most of them are pretty intense.

 And good luck with running them down. Even a basset hound can out run a human.

 There usually aren't many good options in this case. It generally sucks all the way around.

/damn.

Even folks who Hunt (horses, fancy clothes, hounds) carry a pistol loaded with buckshot  in case they need to get a dog's attention.
Once they're focused on a scent, it's tunnel everything (i.e., vision, scent, sound)...but they're still open to an ass full of buckshot.


Do you know what buckshot is? Nobody sane would shoot anything--that they don't want to kill--with buckshot.
2013-02-22 05:17:56 AM  
2 votes:
Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely
2013-02-22 12:45:48 AM  
2 votes:
I was gonna say kill the shooter and drag his corpse through the street like a bandito corpse in Tombstone, AZ in an old fictional cowboy movie.

I was gonna say that.

But it was a farm. Dogs killed a freakin' alpaca recently. Bad juju, but an accident I hope.

If not, clear toen square just in case.
2013-02-22 12:20:52 AM  
2 votes:
farking hell I hate this state sometimes.
2013-02-23 01:38:30 PM  
1 votes:
I shot first and ask questions later.

*BLAM!*
*BLAM!*

Why are the police here?
What's this summons?
Why am I in court?
Will I have any money left after paying the fine, restitution, and lawyers?
Why do my neighbors hate and shun me?
2013-02-22 08:10:15 PM  
1 votes:

Slam1263: OK, I'll bite, how do you "murder" a animal?


Tie four crows to it.
2013-02-22 07:21:52 PM  
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: You can do something legal BUT that doesn't mean you're still not a GIANT A-hole.


That's pretty much what this all about, but sociopaths tend not to give a shiat.
2013-02-22 07:10:30 PM  
1 votes:

walkerhound: lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely

This.  As a dog owner, etc, the law is the law.  The rancher's opinion was that the dogs were harassing his livestock, he has every right to protect his animals.

Don't like it?  Be a responsible pet owner.


the issue is not about legality. You can do something legal BUT that doesn't mean you're still not a GIANT A-hole.

I don;t know about you but if my neighbor's dog, cat, pet iguana etc runs into my yard and though legally I can blow it away I'm not going to and sure as heck not going to leave a voicemail to them afterward bragging about my kill.

I guess it doesn't bother you to be a personn like that.
2013-02-22 06:35:31 PM  
1 votes:

TNel: gamer_geek: Don't know if its been said yet but Bernese are the gentlest most docile dog I know off. I never seen one get aggressive towards another animal unless the owner was some how in danger. I personally just think the farmer didn't like the dogs on his property. Thus why he made the shiatty phone call.

At the same time, don't let your dogs run loose unsupervised.

[msnbcmedia3.msn.com image 474x297]

Yes it ate the sheep when it caught it.


LOL! Horsefeathers!
2013-02-22 04:51:47 PM  
1 votes:

i upped my meds-up yours: gonk: They filed charges against the a-hole, he shot one of the dogs as it was running away. Ugh.

Unfortunate. His words - "I shoot first" - ought to be the law in this case.

It can't be restated often enough. My property plus a gun beats your property.


Two more assholes, two more shots.
2013-02-22 04:35:20 PM  
1 votes:
[msnbcmedia3.msn.com image 474x297]

Yes it ate the sheep when it caught it.


Not saying that the dogs couldn't or wouldn't attack live stock.

Another thought if your gonna call the neighbors to taunt that you shot there dog, why wouldn't you just call them to say your farking dogs are on you property.
2013-02-22 03:48:50 PM  
1 votes:

sdkOyOte: The dogs were given entry to the sheep pen, thus creating an environment where they could be executed justifiably by Mr. Poletti. This is not in the spirit of this law, in fact the law does not allow for this. This man gave entry to the dogs for the purpose of executing them. This is why his actions are heinous, then he followed up by leaving a message for the family. Which is a great way to know that this person is a scumbag.

His anti dog bias may come from previous experience where his sheep, that he cares for and raised were killed, for that I have sympathy and would understand. However, these dogs did not threaten his sheep until he allowed them entry to their enclosure. Basically the man hates dogs, i guess any dogs, as he took his neighbors dogs and set them so he could "legally" execute them. Then he goes on to taunt the family.


Well, he didn't taunt the family, he left the message with someone else as has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread.  So that part is clearly just not true.  But if he actually let the dogs into the sheep enclosure (as opposed to them going over/under a fence) just so he could shoot them that's pretty gross.  I guess we'll see if they think it's worth a court case.
2013-02-22 03:09:56 PM  
1 votes:
Okay, lets define the context as a lot of information is missing-

These dogs did not escape because of neglectful owners, their fence had been damaged in the night, they did not realize this until minutes after they noticed the dogs went missing.

-So they did not leave a gate open, or let the dogs roam loose...  the dogs escaped because their fence had been damaged in the night.

These dogs were not nuisance dogs responsible for killing his sheep or alpaca at any moment, nor did they have a history of escaping and intruding on his property.

The Sheep were in an enclosure, this enclosure was not accessible to the dogs without human assistance. They were lead into the enclosure, then executed. They were not chasing his sheep randomly in an open field, they were given entry for the purpose of their disposal by Mr. Poletti.

I believe in the right of farmers and people who own livestock or anyone threatened bby dogs running wild to be able to protect that property as needed. The PA law in question has some language that could be altered but the premise of the law is good.

IMPORTANT ELEMENT:
The dogs were given entry to the sheep pen, thus creating an environment where they could be executed justifiably by Mr. Poletti. This is not in the spirit of this law, in fact the law does not allow for this. This man gave entry to the dogs for the purpose of executing them. This is why his actions are heinous, then he followed up by leaving a message for the family. Which is a great way to know that this person is a scumbag.

His anti dog bias may come from previous experience where his sheep, that he cares for and raised were killed, for that I have sympathy and would understand. However, these dogs did not threaten his sheep until he allowed them entry to their enclosure. Basically the man hates dogs, i guess any dogs, as he took his neighbors dogs  and set them so he could "legally" execute them. Then he goes on to taunt the family.

Total douche bag.
2013-02-22 01:43:11 PM  
1 votes:

Meez: I am not defending the bastard , it was a total dick move but when I read this it bugged me...

"trying to explain to their five kids why Argus and Fiona won't be coming home. "

How about because mommy and daddy left the gate open to the back yard ?  Or maybe because daddy is really bad at keeping the backyard penned in so the dogs don't get out and run around the neighborhood ?

If their dogs were not running loose around the neighborhood none of this would have happened, I recall hearing many stories of loose pitbulls or rottys  being shot and killed by police.

Also to the poster, murder is defined as killing a person

Get off my lawn


So you can't read then.  Thanks for letting us know.
2013-02-22 01:38:22 PM  
1 votes:

Eckyhade: Let your molest my livestock, lose your dog.   It's that simple.


So if some kids were walking around, its ok to just shoot them too?
No article mentioned any molesting going on.  Just some dikhead knowing whose dogs they were calling to say 'Hey, I killed your dogs and I didnt waste any extra rounds on them.'
2013-02-22 01:38:02 PM  
1 votes:
I am not defending the bastard , it was a total dick move but when I read this it bugged me...

"trying to explain to their five kids why Argus and Fiona won't be coming home. "

How about because mommy and daddy left the gate open to the back yard ?  Or maybe because daddy is really bad at keeping the backyard penned in so the dogs don't get out and run around the neighborhood ?

If their dogs were not running loose around the neighborhood none of this would have happened, I recall hearing many stories of loose pitbulls or rottys  being shot and killed by police.

Also to the poster, murder is defined as killing a person

Get off my lawn
2013-02-22 12:54:30 PM  
1 votes:

Tastes Like Chicken: This Gabe Pillotti guy should consider himself lucky. There's a lot of dog owners out there who would make him regret this decision forever. If some bad press and a woman driving past his house screaming "Dog Killer" are the worst that happens to him, he got off very light.

/just saying. Fair warning to all of you. I know it's wrong. I know I'm damaged. Kill my dogs and see what happens to you.


We've got a badass over here.  I'd shoot your dog if it threatened my livestock.  I'd also defend myself when your irresponsible self came looking for your dogs.  Don't lie, you let your children run around walmart and olive garden don't you?  When you have a pet, you take full responsibility for that pet.  This is all about responsibility.
2013-02-22 12:42:59 PM  
1 votes:

TNel: ThighsofGlory: SquiggsIN: If someone did this to my dogs, I'd end up in jail.

Control your animals, all the time. Dude probably knew they were the neighbors' dogs because this is the kabillionth time they've gotten loose.

What article did you get that from?

Mr. Cat Poop: So let's say your dog got into someones chicken coop and started killing all the hens and the property owner shoots your dog. You're saying you would retaliate against the farmer for protecting his livestock by illegally killing the rest of his hens your dog didn't get to? Yeah, you're a badass.

You really do fail at reading comprehension don't you?


Ok, let me amend. Your dog gets into my hen house and I kill it before it has a chance to kill my hens. To me, that dog was a "real danger". To you, I just murdered poor Twinkle in cold blood. So you retaliate by killing all my chickens. You would be the psycho in this scenario.
2013-02-22 12:33:05 PM  
1 votes:

ThighsofGlory: SquiggsIN: If someone did this to my dogs, I'd end up in jail.

Control your animals, all the time. Dude probably knew they were the neighbors' dogs because this is the kabillionth time they've gotten loose.


What article did you get that from?

Mr. Cat Poop: So let's say your dog got into someones chicken coop and started killing all the hens and the property owner shoots your dog. You're saying you would retaliate against the farmer for protecting his livestock by illegally killing the rest of his hens your dog didn't get to? Yeah, you're a badass.


You really do fail at reading comprehension don't you?
2013-02-22 12:31:32 PM  
1 votes:

BritneysCamelToe: Funny, 'friendly dogs' is how rottweilers are often described by their owners. They may be friendly to you but that doesn't mean they're friendly to me. Opinions vary. Don't like a your dogs being shot? Don't let them out. Build a better fence or get a stronger chain.


QFT
2013-02-22 12:27:36 PM  
1 votes:

you have pee hands: rustypouch: they meet their need to feel loved by exploiting the pack instincts of animals and through training them, often with abuse used to induce desired behaviors.

You're at least 10000 years late.  Domesticated dogs aren't trained to show affection to people, they're bred for it, and they don't need to be abused for it.


And that is why there are dogs today that would never be able to live natural lives, like English Bulldogs, which usually have to be brought into the world via caesarian section, are sold like designer merchandise for $2,500 a pop, and are plagued with horrendous health problems for their entire lives brought on directly by the selective breeding you mention.. I know and love an English Bulldog personally, but after seeing it's knees blow out, infections in the folds if it's face and ass, etc etc etc I feel horrible for him.

It's farking sickening. People want dogs to be kids, and the way we've done it is to breed them dumb to the point that their genetics are a slurry. I think it's abuse any way you look at it.
2013-02-22 12:25:43 PM  
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: If someone did this to my dogs, I'd end up in jail.


Control your animals, all the time. Dude probably knew they were the neighbors' dogs because this is the kabillionth time they've gotten loose.
2013-02-22 12:20:17 PM  
1 votes:

quequeeg: Only if the pen is inside your dwelling. So, no, you wouldn't be justified unless you actually live in your barn.


let me clarify.  I would be perfectly justified if I caught you in the act...

503.080 (1)(a)

also... http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/512-00/CHAPTER.HTM
2013-02-22 12:17:32 PM  
1 votes:

mr_a: Five years from now, when the "Home Owners Association" makes this farmer's life miserable because of the smell of his farm in the middle of a subdivision, he is going to cry about how he always tried to get along with the neighbors and everybody is picking on him.

Sorry, bud. You don't live in 1872 on the frontier, you live in an area where farmers and non-farmers live in close proximity. If you don't want to spend your life in court, and fixing fences that mysteriously fall down, better learn to deal with neighbors...and their pets.


So this farmer should let stray animals harm his livelihood just because if he doesn't, the neighbors are going to be assholes to him? Sounds like the mafia.
2013-02-22 12:02:18 PM  
1 votes:

kortex: Meatschool: kortex: I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.

Dang dude. I'm on the farmer's side in this thing, live in the country, and *I* think the above statement is just dickish.  Go troll somewhere else.

Not trolling at all. Dogs are a large useless waste of resources. If people did not keep unnecessary pets: less cattle, hogs and chicken would have to be raised. The impact would be astounding. I would definitely shoot your stupid dog.


Your now my favorite Asshole! Congrats
2013-02-22 12:01:37 PM  
1 votes:

KanedaJD: BrianGriffin: offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.

QFT

I'd never trust a man who judges his fellow man based solely on 'affinity for dogs'. It can't be the only poor decision-making skill they possess.


Where exactly did he say solely? I would imagine it being 'in conjunction with'...
2013-02-22 11:56:03 AM  
1 votes:

freetomato: sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...


Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.


This is what I came to say.  I have a dog that is part Great Pyrenees, dogs of similar size, temperment and are also herding/guarding dogs.  My dog has tried to herd little kids, ducks, anything small and in a group, but if he has an aggressive bone in his body, I've never seen it.  My friend who has had several Berners over the years said hers behave the exact same way.

I agree that owners should be responsible for keeping their dogs enclosed, but I'd be righteously pissed if mine got out and someone shot them before at least attempting to run them off or contact the owners.


I believe you when you say your dogs are like that, but the guy doesn't know it and the sheep certainly won't. That's why the law is worded the way it is, prey animals that become panicked can hurt themselves when they have nowhere to flee to. That's why the dog doesn't have to directly harm them, just pursuing or worrying livestock is enough. I know that seems like a very low threshold, but that's how the law was written because farmers have to be able to act swiftly to protect their animals from a dog that doesn't belong there.
2013-02-22 11:51:56 AM  
1 votes:
If the dogs knew about the sheep and made a bee-line straight there through a half mile of territory in 5 minutes, it sorta sounds like this was not exploration, but a habit... perhaps there's more to this story than we've been told by the grieving owners so far?

/There are roads near me where I won't ride a bicycle because folks let their dogs run free.
//Don't like getting chased.
///Don't want to bother packing pepper spray/dog repellant.
2013-02-22 11:45:02 AM  
1 votes:

Oblio13: Benjamin Orr:

Or you could be responsible and keep your pets under your control or contained.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are unfamiliar with dogs, pigs, horses, goats, cows and children. If we executed every one that ever went where it shouldn't, there wouldn't be any left.

None of us know enough about this particular circumstance to decide if killing the dogs was warranted or not, but my gut feeling is that the farmer was an industrial-strength dick who did it unnecessarily, and the dog owners were suburban yuppy types who post about their moral outrages on Facebook and sign petitions rather than actually doing anything.


Careful not to fall off that limb.

Didn't you just admit you let your dogs roam free? What are you going to do when one of them gets run over or attacks somebody? Blame everybody but yourself?
2013-02-22 11:43:38 AM  
1 votes:

kortex: It's amazing how you take zero responsibility in the fact that you let your dogs roam and wreak havoc.  Are you aware of every thing that your dogs do while you're not watching them?  You can assume, but never know.  If we always knew what dogs were doing while not being watched, there would be zero dog attacks.  Take some responsibility.


From the post you commented in "From the time the dogs got out, until the time they were dead was 15 minutes. For 10 of those minutes, I was in active pursuit, even driving by Gabe's house. Not knowing of course that just a few feet away from me, my dogs were splattered all over his yard. "

I'm sure you have never lost something ever.  That's like when a child is stolen when a parent turns their back to look at something.  Sure blame the parent because it could never happen to you.
2013-02-22 11:32:57 AM  
1 votes:

sdkOyOte: The police said that from how they found the bodies, Argus was staring him in the face when Gabe shot him point blank from close range. If Argus was standing looking at Gabe, how could he be pursuing the sheep. As Gabe reloaded the gun, Fiona tried to run and was ultimately executed cowering up against the fence, according to the police. If she so easily jumped in the pen, why didn't she jump out to escape?


If that is true, then fark the farmer.  I think we all assumed he shot from 50 feet or more away.
2013-02-22 10:49:17 AM  
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: The Snow Dog: Tatterdemalian:

Sadly, the problem with being human is that if you're not a hero, you're a villain that will quickly be subject to the modern equivalent of the Salem Witch-Burning Team. Which you seem intent on rallying, to prove my point.

/and shooting the dogs was still the correct decision
//just because you think the Disney Universal Animal Language exists doesn't mean it's more real than any invisible sky wizard

It may have been; it may not have been. I don't think it was the correct decision. And your assertion that I think of things in Disneyesque scenarios is laughable. I grew up hunting and have been around ranches and guns my entire life. I've seen ranchers that had mean dogs that had to be taught to stay away from livestock. I've had black labs that we took to hunting leases that would run and sniff every cow or goat in a quarter-mile of the main house. Nobody ever got all-fired up to put a bullet in their heads because they were doing no harm.

You're saying those happy, investigative dogs should have been shot.

I'm saying that you should take each case and make a decision as to whether there is any real threat before you go blowing sh*t up. It MIGHT have been the correct decision. It MIGHT not've.

/Rational thought, how does it farking work?

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 640x359]

Rational thought doesn't presume psychic superpowers or Disney Universal Animal Languages. What you're doing is howling fanaticism dressed up as a Glenn Beck "I'm Just Asking Questions" speech, pure and simple.


Hyperbole much? Step back from the stale phrases a bit and maybe you could convince someone.
2013-02-22 10:46:32 AM  
1 votes:
Sounds like a real dysfunctional neighborhood.  Just note for the record that Triggerhappy McGee did not leave the voicemail for the dog's owners.  He left it for "a neighbor", who for some unknown reason decided to share it with the owners.

And the law was on his side if the escaped dogs managed to hop his fences and get into the sheep pen.

/no pity for entitled twit owners who sent the beasts out into a broken enclosure and did nothing to try to get them back
//had a cat killed by a neighbor's roaming dogs
///obligatory third slashie
2013-02-22 10:45:53 AM  
1 votes:

pseudoscience: offmymeds: 

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped. Read this article from Philly.com. It's better written and will give you a better idea of what exactly happened.

Includes this gem: When William Bock asked Pilotti about the incident, his reply, according to the Bocks, was "I shoot first and ask questions later."

Sounds like a real reasonable guy.



Indeed. I have two very well-trained Great Danes, both sweet dogs, but some people are intimidated by their size. One of them 'goes walkabout' occasionally to visit a neighbor, who has taught her to do it by feeding her and playing with her. Fortunately there aren't any folks like that farmer around, or I think I'd do something to get myself in trouble. Just reading the article was giving me fantasies about him waking up one morning to not a single live animal on his farm.
2013-02-22 10:35:01 AM  
1 votes:

kortex: I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.


Dang dude. I'm on the farmer's side in this thing, live in the country, and *I* think the above statement is just dickish.  Go troll somewhere else.
2013-02-22 10:11:53 AM  
1 votes:

pyrotek85: It's not a matter of right or wrong


That's the only thing that matters in life.
2013-02-22 10:04:12 AM  
1 votes:

offmymeds: AverageAmericanGuy: Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.

lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped. Read this article from Philly.com. It's better written and will give you a better idea of what exactly happened.


Includes this gem: When William Bock asked Pilotti about the incident, his reply, according to the Bocks, was "I shoot first and ask questions later."

Sounds like a real reasonable guy.
2013-02-22 09:58:11 AM  
1 votes:

NOVanHelsing: I know this may surprise you but is it not necessary for the offending animal to be "attacking the livestock" in order for me the livestock owner to dispatch said animal.


Doesn't always make it right.
2013-02-22 09:48:12 AM  
1 votes:
Now Mary says she and her husband are trying to explain to their five kids why Argus and Fiona won't be coming home.

I suggest a puppet show, whereby the parent puppets are incapable of making a proper fence or checking periodically that the dogs cannot go over or under it.

Guarantee you if their friendly dogs because vicious in order to protect their children from a coyote, they'd be fine with it.
2013-02-22 09:39:30 AM  
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: pyrotek85: The Snow Dog:
YOU implied dogs OBVIOUSLY bothered sheep.

Sheep are prey animals, and they will be fearful and panicked if a strange predator (ie not a dog that they've grown up with and is accustomed to) is among them. It doesn't matter what the dog is doing, they're not going to think rationally like people do, it's not something they're capable of. This really isn't up for debate, it's just how it is. Even if dogs are acting 'playful' and chasing around livestock without catching and harming them directly, the sheep won't think it's funny and will think it's the real deal, that they're being hunted. As others have said, you're giving way too much credit to both the sheep and dogs, they don't think rationally.

Having said that, I would feel very sad if my dogs got loose somehow, got into a farmer's livestock pen and ended up dead because of it. But I understand what it does to the livestock and the farmer isn't obligated to save the dog from it's own antics. We've had to chase off dogs here in PA ourselves, and we've lost chickens from it too. The ones we simply chase off come right back the next time because they found something fun to do when they're out, and it sounds like the farmer was getting fed up with it, since he already lost some animals.

So EVERY dog that wanders onto a farm should be killed. Got it. My bad.


The laws allows for it, yes. It's up to the farmer if they believe their livestock is being harassed by a strange dog's presence. Remember the livestock is their livelihood, and many pet owners, as demonstrated in this thread, don't think it's a big deal so they don't give a damn if their beloved pet runs wild.
2013-02-22 09:36:58 AM  
1 votes:

homelessdude: hate to see a dog get killed as much as anybody, but this is classic yuppie/hipster encroachment and the fallout when dealing with someone who has been there for years probably. This couple spent probably over $2k for a couple of pets so they could say they had some exclusive breed and now they are butthurt over their loss of investment.


Go fark yourself. I love dogs. I sponsor two places at the local shelter. I own a newfoundland. I wanted a dog that had been bred to be good with children. Nothing to do with being a hipster, or looking to be "exclusive"
2013-02-22 09:33:12 AM  
1 votes:

syzygy whizz: Even folks who Hunt (horses, fancy clothes, hounds) carry a pistol loaded with buckshot  in case they need to get a dog's attention.
Once they're focused on a scent, it's tunnel everything (i.e., vision, scent, sound)...but they're still open to an ass full of buckshot.


We do carry pistols. They are not loaded with buckshot. We do not shoot our hounds.
2013-02-22 09:30:16 AM  
1 votes:

pyrotek85: The Snow Dog:
YOU implied dogs OBVIOUSLY bothered sheep.

Sheep are prey animals, and they will be fearful and panicked if a strange predator (ie not a dog that they've grown up with and is accustomed to) is among them. It doesn't matter what the dog is doing, they're not going to think rationally like people do, it's not something they're capable of. This really isn't up for debate, it's just how it is. Even if dogs are acting 'playful' and chasing around livestock without catching and harming them directly, the sheep won't think it's funny and will think it's the real deal, that they're being hunted. As others have said, you're giving way too much credit to both the sheep and dogs, they don't think rationally.

Having said that, I would feel very sad if my dogs got loose somehow, got into a farmer's livestock pen and ended up dead because of it. But I understand what it does to the livestock and the farmer isn't obligated to save the dog from it's own antics. We've had to chase off dogs here in PA ourselves, and we've lost chickens from it too. The ones we simply chase off come right back the next time because they found something fun to do when they're out, and it sounds like the farmer was getting fed up with it, since he already lost some animals.


So EVERY dog that wanders onto a farm should be killed. Got it. My bad.
2013-02-22 08:54:14 AM  
1 votes:
Those cuddly lovable family pets snap into predator mode the second they see... prey.  Any dog owner knows or should know that when your dog sees a squirrel, all bets are off.  Yes, through a lot of effort you can train your dog to not chase, but that training only works when the trainer is around.  Loose dogs invariably will track and hunt, it's what they do.

I'm a dog owner, not a gun owner.  Take responsibility before getting a dog.  Learn about the breed, be reasonably sure you can handle the dog, you can keep it from escaping, you have the space and the energy yourself to keep up with the pet's activity level.  Well trained dogs are make happy pets and happy owners, as there's far less frustration for both human and animal.
2013-02-22 08:52:03 AM  
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: The great thing about being human is that we have brains we can use t o make decisions with. If you don't want to use yours, great. But you do n't have to make up stuff. Just say: Dogs were on my property, I felt like killing them. Don't act like you're a hero.


Sadly, the problem with being human is that if you're not a hero, you're a villain that will quickly be subject to the modern equivalent of the Salem Witch-Burning Team. Which you seem intent on rallying, to prove my point.

/and shooting the dogs was still the correct decision
//just because you think the Disney Universal Animal Language exists doesn't mean it's more real than any invisible sky wizard
2013-02-22 08:35:35 AM  
1 votes:

zenferret: The Snow Dog: 1. Dogs near livestock are "obviously upsetting"? Ever hear of sheep dogs?

I'm sorry, I missed the part of the article that said these were the shooter's own sheep dogs - or that the dogs were even trained sheep dogs to begin with. Perhaps you can quote that part for me.

The Snow Dog: 2. If the dogs were already in the pen and they were not attacking or acting aggressively then they would likely not attack the sheep.

Ahh, so now you're the Dog Whisperer? Or a modern-day Dr. Dolittle? You don't know the dogs' intentions. You don't know what sets them off. Either way, it's still irrelevant. The dogs were trespassing, the owner were irresponsible. Judging from the VM, it's not the first time.

The Snow Dog: Also, the fact that the guy used a single-shot shotgun means that:

C) He's a good shot.

Leaving the VM was a dick move, I'll agree to that. But it was also irresponsible to have those dogs running loose - I don't care what the excuse might be. If they were children, those owners would be in jail. If the dogs were secured in their own yard, they'd still be alive.


YOU implied dogs OBVIOUSLY bothered sheep.

I'm not Caesar Milan, but it isn't hard to tell if a dog is aggressiv e or not. Maybe for people like you who obviously embrace knee-jerk reac tions.

BS. He may be a good shot, but you don't not hit your own sheep if a  d og is latched onto said sheep and you shoot it in the head.

The great thing about being human is that we have brains we can use t o make decisions with. If you don't want to use yours, great. But you do n't have to make up stuff. Just say: Dogs were on my property, I felt like killing them. Don't act like you're a hero.
2013-02-22 08:29:05 AM  
1 votes:

zenferret: The Snow Dog: 1. Dogs near livestock are "obviously upsetting"? Ever hear of sheep dogs?I'm sorry, I missed the part of the article that said these were the shooter's own sheep dogs - or that the dogs were even trained sheep dogs to begin with. Perhaps you can quote that part for me.


All dogs are trained sheep dogs, because they all NEED to be trained sheep dogs to make a dog lover's argument work. Just like all pit bulls are loving and cuddly friends to all living things, because MY pit bull is a loving and cuddly friend to all living things.

/problem is, even if the dog thinks it's playing doesn't mean the livestock has read its mind or had this communicated to them in Disney's Universal Animal Language
//nor does the livestocks' panic get communicated back to the dog, so the dog will happily run the livestock to death without even caring
2013-02-22 08:13:57 AM  
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: Bread dogs are really docile.


i.imgur.com
2013-02-22 08:13:45 AM  
1 votes:
Now Mary says she and her husband are trying to explain to their five kids why their dogs won't be coming home.

You mean explaining to them how you couldn't be bothered to keep them fenced-in?


The Boch family is meeting with lawmakers next week, in hopes that going forward this doesn't happen to another family.

I know a pretty easy way to keep it from happening again.  It ain't rocket science.
2013-02-22 08:09:02 AM  
1 votes:
Killing a dog is not murder, moron. Might be a dick move, but it's not murder because, last time I checked, dogs aren't human.
2013-02-22 07:45:00 AM  
1 votes:

zenferret: The Snow Dog: A tree branch fell on the fence according to the article posted in the comments above. (Act of god.)

The dogs were not confined to their own property. Act of human. You're looking at a yard that is maybe 1 acre at the most (see map). How long would it take to check the enclosure? If this were a child that wandered onto a highway through a hole in the fence, would you still be as forgiving? The dogs were 1/2 mile away from their property (see map) IN the sheep's pen. Why weren't the owners actively searching for their dogs?
Many dog owners (much like many breeders) feel the world should tolerate their pets - the barking, the pooping, etc. THEY should be shot.

The Snow Dog: Also: for someone with "Zen" in their handle--you sure don't seem very zen.

For someone with "dog" in their handle--you sure don't type like a dog.


If you'll read the comments above you'll see I said that, if the dogs actually were attacking the livestock, then good for the farmer for protecting his livestock. I also said you'd be the pentultimate douche if the dogs were just in there sniffing around or playing and you walked up and shot them. We'll never know unless there is security camera footage we don't know about.

If you're the type of ferretty douche that would leap at the chance to get in some sweet, sweet dog-killing just because they dare tread on your property: then fark you in the goat-ass.
2013-02-22 07:35:40 AM  
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: A tree branch fell on the fence according to the article posted in the comments above. (Act of god.)


The dogs were not confined to their own property. Act of human. You're looking at a yard that is maybe 1 acre at the most (see map). How long would it take to check the enclosure? If this were a child that wandered onto a highway through a hole in the fence, would you still be as forgiving? The dogs were 1/2 mile away from their property (see map) IN the sheep's pen. Why weren't the owners actively searching for their dogs?
Many dog owners (much like many breeders) feel the world should tolerate their pets - the barking, the pooping, etc. THEY should be shot.

The Snow Dog: Also: for someone with "Zen" in their handle--you sure don't seem very zen.


For someone with "dog" in their handle--you sure don't type like a dog.
2013-02-22 06:55:52 AM  
1 votes:

NOVanHelsing: The Snow Dog: Sure thing. It's your right to eat your own dingleberries too. Doesn't mean you have to do it, dingleberry-breath These animals I keep to provide sustinace and profit are my responsibility.  They are, for the most part, confined for their own protection.   If you fail to control your animal and it leaves your property and comes into my livestock pens or coop then you sir are responsible for any actions I must take to protect my livestock. That you fail to comprehend this simple fact amazes me.

us.acidcow.com
2013-02-22 06:31:20 AM  
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: Sure thing. It's your right to eat your own dingleberries too. Doesn't mean you have to do it, dingleberry-breath


These animals I keep to provide sustinace and profit are my responsibility.  They are, for the most part, confined for their own protection.   If you fail to control your animal and it leaves your property and comes into my livestock pens or coop then you sir are responsible for any actions I must take to protect my livestock.

That you fail to comprehend this simple fact amazes me.
2013-02-22 06:11:54 AM  
1 votes:

TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.


offmymeds: AverageAmericanGuy: Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.

lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped. Read this article from Philly.com. It's better written and will give you a better idea of what exactly happened.


This is why I am not fond of dogs.  Two of them (not for the first time) escaped from their enclosure and killed my oldest cat. In his OWN yard. One dog, maybe he might have gotten away, but with two he didn't have a chance.
My 'gun' was the animal control unit...the dogs were euthanized eventually.

Didn't bring back Misha, however...and didn't make me feel 'better' about the whole mess.
2013-02-22 06:01:53 AM  
1 votes:

homelessdude: Hand drawn map from the Examiner......
[cdn2-b.examiner.com image 380x215]


Bing Map (pops)

And why yes, there is a Facebook page because of course, this is a national tragedy that a pair of untamed, spastic, pure bread $1,000 dogs got out of the yard, smelled other animals as untamed, spastic, pure bread $1,000 dogs tend to do and went on a hunt. Or is it a tragedy that people pay $1,000+ for a dog (2 dogs actually) when there are tens of thousands sitting in kennels every day just waiting for the grim reaper to show up?

I hate to see a dog get killed as much as anybody, but this is classic yuppie/hipster encroachment and the fallout when dealing with someone who has been there for years probably. This couple spent probably over $2k for a couple of pets so they could say they had some exclusive breed and now they are butthurt over their loss of investment.

I also have to question whether this was the first time the dogs got out.

You got a couple thousand laying around?
PuppyFind.com - Bernese Mountain Dog

(pops)
[s20.postimage.org image 254x300]


Bread dogs are really docile. I say this is conclusive proof that the old coot acted rashly.

Also $1,000 for a dog is NOT expensive. Would I pay it? No. But that doesn't seem excessively extravagant.
2013-02-22 05:57:27 AM  
1 votes:

NOVanHelsing: offmymeds: Read this article from Philly.com.

Yes, it does make it more clear.  Thank you.  The dogs weren't merely on the mans property.  They dogs were in and amongst the mans livestock.  This sounds more like suburbia encroaching on rural farm land and ignorant city folk not knowing how things work in the country.  I have pets and I have farm animals.  I also would not hesitate shooting any animal if I found them amongst or chasing my livestock.


"In and amongst" his livestock doesn't really clear things up. Were they attacking the livestock? Were they just sniffing the livestock's butts? Were they just rolling is sheep sh*t?

If the dogs were not attacking the sheep then the guy is a complete douchebag.

If the dogs were attacking his sheep: don't blame the guy one bit, good for him.

Really couldn't say for sure one way or the other about this without seeing video of the event. (And I am glad there isn't any.) Since they're saying none of the guy's livestock was hurt I lean toward the opinion that he acted rashly.
2013-02-22 05:52:29 AM  
1 votes:
Hand drawn map from the Examiner......
cdn2-b.examiner.com


Bing Map (pops)


And why yes, there is a Facebook page because of course, this is a national tragedy that a pair of untamed, spastic, pure bread $1,000 dogs got out of the yard, smelled other animals as untamed, spastic, pure bread $1,000 dogs tend to do and went on a hunt. Or is it a tragedy that people pay $1,000+ for a dog (2 dogs actually) when there are tens of thousands sitting in kennels every day just waiting for the grim reaper to show up?

I hate to see a dog get killed as much as anybody, but this is classic yuppie/hipster encroachment and the fallout when dealing with someone who has been there for years probably. This couple spent probably over $2k for a couple of pets so they could say they had some exclusive breed and now they are butthurt over their loss of investment.

I also have to question whether this was the first time the dogs got out.

You got a couple thousand laying around?
PuppyFind.com - Bernese Mountain Dog

(pops)
s20.postimage.org
2013-02-22 05:43:46 AM  
1 votes:

Zebulon: offmymeds: AverageAmericanGuy: Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.

lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped.

So in other words, they were no longer fenced in, and thus were running around freely.


It's a bit reminding of the bum who almost lost his dog because he couldn't pay to get it out of the shelter.

Sometimes a stranger saved the day. Sometimes the stranger kills the dog.

They rely on humans to protect them. In both cases the owners let the dogs down.
2013-02-22 05:39:07 AM  
1 votes:

offmymeds: AverageAmericanGuy: Keep your dogs on leash.

The deaths of these two dogs are on the owner that let them run free.

lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped.


So in other words, they were no longer fenced in, and thus were running around freely.
2013-02-22 04:55:23 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: cc_rider: He really couldn't have called them to come get their dogs before he shot two family pets?

We don't know the dogs weren't worrying livestock. Farmers shoot pests. That includes kids and tax men.

I agree that it could spark a blood feud if they were just family pets, but I used to have a dachshund who could kill a sparrow in mid-flight. That dog was a stone cold killer. Scale it up to a collie and you're lookin' at baby alpaca in danger and mommas losing their... foal? What the hell is a baby alpaca called?

I'm reserving judgement until I hear both sides. THEN I'll overreact and rain hyperbole down like it was mere exaggeration.


Baby alpacas are called crias. They also scare the shiat out of you when you're doing chores and they start falling out of the mom's ass when you aren't expecting it. [Source] My aunt and uncle raise alpacas in Wisconsin.
2013-02-22 03:36:05 AM  
1 votes:

cc_rider: He really couldn't have called them to come get their dogs before he shot two family pets?


We don't know the dogs weren't worrying livestock. Farmers shoot pests. That includes kids and tax men.

I agree that it could spark a blood feud if they were just family pets, but I used to have a dachshund who could kill a sparrow in mid-flight. That dog was a stone cold killer. Scale it up to a collie and you're lookin' at baby alpaca in danger and mommas losing their... foal? What the hell is a baby alpaca called?

I'm reserving judgement until I hear both sides. THEN I'll overreact and rain hyperbole down like it was mere exaggeration.
2013-02-22 01:32:56 AM  
1 votes:

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Another responsible gun owner heard from.


Glad to see this phrase is now completely meaningless.
 
Displayed 108 of 108 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report