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(ABC Local)   In a small Pennsylvania suburb, your neighbor's two friendly dogs escape and end up on your land. Naturally, your only option is to murder the dogs and then leave a taunting voicemail for the dogs owners   (abclocal.go.com) divider line 242
    More: Asinine, Pennsylvania, Chester Co., suburbs, Gabriel Pilotti, Mary Boch  
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9948 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 4:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 10:11:53 AM

pyrotek85: It's not a matter of right or wrong


That's the only thing that matters in life.
 
2013-02-22 10:12:49 AM

SquiggsIN: If someone did this to my dogs, I'd end up in jail.


me too man. id be looking at 20 to life.
 
2013-02-22 10:25:43 AM
I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.
 
2013-02-22 10:26:35 AM

DuncanMhor: homelessdude: hate to see a dog get killed as much as anybody, but this is classic yuppie/hipster encroachment and the fallout when dealing with someone who has been there for years probably. This couple spent probably over $2k for a couple of pets so they could say they had some exclusive breed and now they are butthurt over their loss of investment.

Go fark yourself. I love dogs. I sponsor two places at the local shelter. I own a newfoundland. I wanted a dog that had been bred to be good with children. Nothing to do with being a hipster, or looking to be "exclusive"


Fine. Have fun with your trophy.

I assume there is somebody out there who is impressed.
 
2013-02-22 10:27:33 AM

Qaiwolf: a loaf of crap!

/I know I know


heh heh

+1
 
2013-02-22 10:30:04 AM
Angry farmers with guns is the #2 reason that people don't actually tip cows.
 
2013-02-22 10:35:01 AM

kortex: I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.


Dang dude. I'm on the farmer's side in this thing, live in the country, and *I* think the above statement is just dickish.  Go troll somewhere else.
 
2013-02-22 10:38:38 AM

cuzsis: It sounds like it's very likely these dogs were harrassing the livestock. Unfortunately that can happen when you keep a predator as a pet.


Agreed.  People think their family pets are well behaved--sometimes they're not when away from home.
 
2013-02-22 10:41:22 AM
"He had other options," Boch said. "He could have fired the gun into the air to scare them away.

Well sure, I mean, when it comes to the safety of your "babies" it just doesn't matter what other life gets endangered.  All that matters are your "babies".
 
2013-02-22 10:45:08 AM

lucksi: Don't let your farking dogs roam around freely


This.  As a dog owner, etc, the law is the law.  The rancher's opinion was that the dogs were harassing his livestock, he has every right to protect his animals.

Don't like it?  Be a responsible pet owner.
 
2013-02-22 10:45:53 AM

pseudoscience: offmymeds: 

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped. Read this article from Philly.com. It's better written and will give you a better idea of what exactly happened.

Includes this gem: When William Bock asked Pilotti about the incident, his reply, according to the Bocks, was "I shoot first and ask questions later."

Sounds like a real reasonable guy.



Indeed. I have two very well-trained Great Danes, both sweet dogs, but some people are intimidated by their size. One of them 'goes walkabout' occasionally to visit a neighbor, who has taught her to do it by feeding her and playing with her. Fortunately there aren't any folks like that farmer around, or I think I'd do something to get myself in trouble. Just reading the article was giving me fantasies about him waking up one morning to not a single live animal on his farm.
 
2013-02-22 10:46:32 AM
Sounds like a real dysfunctional neighborhood.  Just note for the record that Triggerhappy McGee did not leave the voicemail for the dog's owners.  He left it for "a neighbor", who for some unknown reason decided to share it with the owners.

And the law was on his side if the escaped dogs managed to hop his fences and get into the sheep pen.

/no pity for entitled twit owners who sent the beasts out into a broken enclosure and did nothing to try to get them back
//had a cat killed by a neighbor's roaming dogs
///obligatory third slashie
 
2013-02-22 10:49:17 AM

Tatterdemalian: The Snow Dog: Tatterdemalian:

Sadly, the problem with being human is that if you're not a hero, you're a villain that will quickly be subject to the modern equivalent of the Salem Witch-Burning Team. Which you seem intent on rallying, to prove my point.

/and shooting the dogs was still the correct decision
//just because you think the Disney Universal Animal Language exists doesn't mean it's more real than any invisible sky wizard

It may have been; it may not have been. I don't think it was the correct decision. And your assertion that I think of things in Disneyesque scenarios is laughable. I grew up hunting and have been around ranches and guns my entire life. I've seen ranchers that had mean dogs that had to be taught to stay away from livestock. I've had black labs that we took to hunting leases that would run and sniff every cow or goat in a quarter-mile of the main house. Nobody ever got all-fired up to put a bullet in their heads because they were doing no harm.

You're saying those happy, investigative dogs should have been shot.

I'm saying that you should take each case and make a decision as to whether there is any real threat before you go blowing sh*t up. It MIGHT have been the correct decision. It MIGHT not've.

/Rational thought, how does it farking work?

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 640x359]

Rational thought doesn't presume psychic superpowers or Disney Universal Animal Languages. What you're doing is howling fanaticism dressed up as a Glenn Beck "I'm Just Asking Questions" speech, pure and simple.


Hyperbole much? Step back from the stale phrases a bit and maybe you could convince someone.
 
2013-02-22 10:58:09 AM

Meatschool: kortex: I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.

Dang dude. I'm on the farmer's side in this thing, live in the country, and *I* think the above statement is just dickish.  Go troll somewhere else.


Not trolling at all. Dogs are a large useless waste of resources. If people did not keep unnecessary pets: less cattle, hogs and chicken would have to be raised. The impact would be astounding. I would definitely shoot your stupid dog.
 
2013-02-22 10:58:37 AM
Y'know, if a pair of large dogs were in with my sheep, I'd be freaking nervous, too. The sheep would also be nervous. Most dogs are not blessed with herding instincts. That said, I can't blame the shepherd for shooting the dogs. He may have known who the dogs belonged to, but that doesn't mean he knew what the dogs were intending to do.

That said, he should not have been a dick about it.

And he could have filled their rumps with shot, rather than killed them. That's what my dad did to a dog that was legitimately in with the flock years ago. In that case, there were lambs involved, one of which died. Of fear. We never did learn out who the dog belonged to, but it did get away, albeit with some lead in its hide. Which it earned.

Other neighbor dogs have gotten in with the sheep over the years, but they've been smaller and have been run off in other ways. There was that beagle who was ultimately banished by a fierce barn cat. And then there was the neighbor's frou-frou dog who, thankfully, decided he did not want to take on our pen of rams. The rams would have won that one. Our own dogs, who are not sheep dogs, know not to bother the sheep. (Our rescue got in with the ewe flock once. She escaped with bruises and a good life lesson. The sheep in my family's flock do not mess around. Also, they have horns, which helps.)

Oh, where was I going with this? Oh yeah. Sometimes you have to defend your animals. It's your responsibility to keep them safe. Just... don't be a dick about it.
 
2013-02-22 10:58:48 AM

Oblio13: pseudoscience: offmymeds: 

They weren't "running around freely". They were fenced in, but escaped. Read this article from Philly.com. It's better written and will give you a better idea of what exactly happened.

Includes this gem: When William Bock asked Pilotti about the incident, his reply, according to the Bocks, was "I shoot first and ask questions later."

Sounds like a real reasonable guy.


Indeed. I have two very well-trained Great Danes, both sweet dogs, but some people are intimidated by their size. One of them 'goes walkabout' occasionally to visit a neighbor, who has taught her to do it by feeding her and playing with her. Fortunately there aren't any folks like that farmer around, or I think I'd do something to get myself in trouble. Just reading the article was giving me fantasies about him waking up one morning to not a single live animal on his farm.


Or you could be responsible and keep your pets under your control or contained.
 
2013-02-22 11:07:05 AM
I would have murdered the farking dogs too
 
2013-02-22 11:10:02 AM
Benjamin Orr:

Or you could be responsible and keep your pets under your control or contained.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are unfamiliar with dogs, pigs, horses, goats, cows and children. If we executed every one that ever went where it shouldn't, there wouldn't be any left.

None of us know enough about this particular circumstance to decide if killing the dogs was warranted or not, but my gut feeling is that the farmer was an industrial-strength dick who did it unnecessarily, and the dog owners were suburban yuppy types who post about their moral outrages on Facebook and sign petitions rather than actually doing anything.
 
2013-02-22 11:15:35 AM

Ker_Thwap: Those cuddly lovable family pets snap into predator mode the second they see... prey.  Any dog owner knows or should know that when your dog sees a squirrel, all bets are off.  Yes, through a lot of effort you can train your dog to not chase, but that training only works when the trainer is around.  Loose dogs invariably will track and hunt, it's what they do.

I'm a dog owner, not a gun owner.  Take responsibility before getting a dog.  Learn about the breed, be reasonably sure you can handle the dog, you can keep it from escaping, you have the space and the energy yourself to keep up with the pet's activity level.  Well trained dogs are make happy pets and happy owners, as there's far less frustration for both human and animal.


My 110lb Great Pyrenees is afraid of our hamster.  Now in contrast my parents golden is a cold hearted killer that damn thing catches birds that fly too low, I lost track of how many small game it's taken out.  Now would it attack something that is larger than it?  I would say no, not at all.
 
2013-02-22 11:29:35 AM
THIS IS DIRECTLY FROM THE OWNER OF ARGUS & FIONA. IF FOR KNOW OTHER REASON, PLEASE READ TO KEEP YOUR OWN DOGS SAFE:
Just wanted to clear a few things up here and let people know why we are exposing this story in this way: We are not the type of people that are 100% comfortable with this type of attention, however if something good can come from this awful tragedy it will be well worth it and it will give our dogs short life a purpose. To us this is a question of humanity. Weather you are an animal lover or not, I know that I personally do not want to live in a world where you can not trust that you or your pets's lives are in danger from your neighbor. Yes, we do feel guilt about not knowing the piece of our fence was damaged. From the time the dogs got out, until the time they were dead was 15 minutes. For 10 of those minutes, I was in active pursuit, even driving by Gabe's house. Not knowing of course that just a few feet away from me, my dogs were splattered all over his yard.

There are many questions about what happened that are not out there because they are theories that can not be proven. Like how my dogs got into Mr. pilotti's sheep pen area. The fence was high and the dogs had never jumped a fence before. Our male definitely had the physical ability to jump it so its possible, but the female did not. The police said that from how they found the bodies, Argus was staring him in the face when Gabe shot him point blank from close range. If Argus was standing looking at Gabe, how could he be pursuing the sheep. As Gabe reloaded the gun, Fiona tried to run and was ultimately executed cowering up against the fence, according to the police. If she so easily jumped in the pen, why didn't she jump out to escape? The speculation from many, including authorities is that Gabe opened the gate to let them in so that it was "legal for him to kill them" He was well aware of the law and stated it to the police as soon as they arrived. Then, if you heard the message, called a neighbor to brag about it. This pure evilness is why we are fighting to make a difference. This law does serve a purpose for sure, but needs to be amended. Maybe just the verbiage, "pursuing" is a broad term.

This is not only an animal rights issue but also a human issue. This will happen again, maybe not in the same way, but probably with this same individual. Having the law on his side, in his mind, makes the choices he made that day ok. Most people would not abuse this law, but because of Gabe Pilotti we are reminded that people can be very cruel and unfortunately we cannot trust in humanity to always make the best decision. Thank you for all the support on this page. To anyone who's dog has ever escaped your yard, even for a few minutes, this should matter to you.
 
2013-02-22 11:32:11 AM

sdkOyOte: THIS IS DIRECTLY FROM THE OWNER OF ARGUS & FIONA. IF FOR KNOW OTHER REASON, PLEASE READ TO KEEP YOUR OWN DOGS SAFE:
Just wanted to clear a few things up here and let people know why we are exposing this story in this way: We are not the type of people that are 100% comfortable with this type of attention, however if something good can come from this awful tragedy it will be well worth it and it will give our dogs short life a purpose. To us this is a question of humanity. Weather you are an animal lover or not, I know that I personally do not want to live in a world where you can not trust that you or your pets's lives are in danger from your neighbor. Yes, we do feel guilt about not knowing the piece of our fence was damaged. From the time the dogs got out, until the time they were dead was 15 minutes. For 10 of those minutes, I was in active pursuit, even driving by Gabe's house. Not knowing of course that just a few feet away from me, my dogs were splattered all over his yard.

There are many questions about what happened that are not out there because they are theories that can not be proven. Like how my dogs got into Mr. pilotti's sheep pen area. The fence was high and the dogs had never jumped a fence before. Our male definitely had the physical ability to jump it so its possible, but the female did not. The police said that from how they found the bodies, Argus was staring him in the face when Gabe shot him point blank from close range. If Argus was standing looking at Gabe, how could he be pursuing the sheep. As Gabe reloaded the gun, Fiona tried to run and was ultimately executed cowering up against the fence, according to the police. If she so easily jumped in the pen, why didn't she jump out to escape? The speculation from many, including authorities is that Gabe opened the gate to let them in so that it was "legal for him to kill them" He was well aware of the law and stated it to the police as soon as they arrived. Then, if you heard the message, called ...


Why are you letting your dogs roam freely and wreak havoc?  I'd have shot them too.
 
2013-02-22 11:32:57 AM

sdkOyOte: The police said that from how they found the bodies, Argus was staring him in the face when Gabe shot him point blank from close range. If Argus was standing looking at Gabe, how could he be pursuing the sheep. As Gabe reloaded the gun, Fiona tried to run and was ultimately executed cowering up against the fence, according to the police. If she so easily jumped in the pen, why didn't she jump out to escape?


If that is true, then fark the farmer.  I think we all assumed he shot from 50 feet or more away.
 
2013-02-22 11:34:31 AM
Knowledge is a big deal in this...

First - two dogs had attacked his livestock and killed sheep and an alpaca...   they were not these dogs, they were not this breed.

Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.

The sheep were in an enclosure that really could only be accessed by a human, they were basically let in by "someone"...
Although they were pets, this is a murder, a heinous destruction with premeditation and malice of forethought of life.
 
2013-02-22 11:36:33 AM

sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...

First - two dogs had attacked his livestock and killed sheep and an alpaca...   they were not these dogs, they were not this breed.

Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.

The sheep were in an enclosure that really could only be accessed by a human, they were basically let in by "someone"...
Although they were pets, this is a murder, a heinous destruction with premeditation and malice of forethought of life.


Murder only applies to humans because Ayn Rand  and the other neckbeards that work with me in IT told me so.
 
2013-02-22 11:37:44 AM

offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.


QFT
 
2013-02-22 11:38:32 AM

sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...

First - two dogs had attacked his livestock and killed sheep and an alpaca...   they were not these dogs, they were not this breed.

Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.

The sheep were in an enclosure that really could only be accessed by a human, they were basically let in by "someone"...
Although they were pets, this is a murder, a heinous destruction with premeditation and malice of forethought of life.


It's amazing how you take zero responsibility in the fact that you let your dogs roam and wreak havoc.  Are you aware of every thing that your dogs do while you're not watching them?  You can assume, but never know.  If we always knew what dogs were doing while not being watched, there would be zero dog attacks.  Take some responsibility.
 
2013-02-22 11:42:05 AM
Property damaged = owner's responsibility to fix.
 
2013-02-22 11:43:38 AM

kortex: It's amazing how you take zero responsibility in the fact that you let your dogs roam and wreak havoc.  Are you aware of every thing that your dogs do while you're not watching them?  You can assume, but never know.  If we always knew what dogs were doing while not being watched, there would be zero dog attacks.  Take some responsibility.


From the post you commented in "From the time the dogs got out, until the time they were dead was 15 minutes. For 10 of those minutes, I was in active pursuit, even driving by Gabe's house. Not knowing of course that just a few feet away from me, my dogs were splattered all over his yard. "

I'm sure you have never lost something ever.  That's like when a child is stolen when a parent turns their back to look at something.  Sure blame the parent because it could never happen to you.
 
2013-02-22 11:45:02 AM

Oblio13: Benjamin Orr:

Or you could be responsible and keep your pets under your control or contained.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are unfamiliar with dogs, pigs, horses, goats, cows and children. If we executed every one that ever went where it shouldn't, there wouldn't be any left.

None of us know enough about this particular circumstance to decide if killing the dogs was warranted or not, but my gut feeling is that the farmer was an industrial-strength dick who did it unnecessarily, and the dog owners were suburban yuppy types who post about their moral outrages on Facebook and sign petitions rather than actually doing anything.


Careful not to fall off that limb.

Didn't you just admit you let your dogs roam free? What are you going to do when one of them gets run over or attacks somebody? Blame everybody but yourself?
 
2013-02-22 11:45:52 AM

kortex: sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...

First - two dogs had attacked his livestock and killed sheep and an alpaca...   they were not these dogs, they were not this breed.

Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.

The sheep were in an enclosure that really could only be accessed by a human, they were basically let in by "someone"...
Although they were pets, this is a murder, a heinous destruction with premeditation and malice of forethought of life.

It's amazing how you take zero responsibility in the fact that you let your dogs roam and wreak havoc.  Are you aware of every thing that your dogs do while you're not watching them?  You can assume, but never know.  If we always knew what dogs were doing while not being watched, there would be zero dog attacks.  Take some responsibility.


Responsibility isn't a concept these folks are able to grasp. Their dogs can run anywhere the fark they want at any time, and if you have the audacity to defend your property or say otherwise, you're a 'murderer' and a 'aspie libersomething'.

These are the same type of people who don't control their kids in restaraunts, because fark everyone else, that's why
 
2013-02-22 11:46:58 AM

mr_a: Five years from now, when the "Home Owners Association" makes this farmer's life miserable because of the smell of his farm in the middle of a subdivision, he is going to cry about how he always tried to get along with the neighbors and everybody is picking on him.

Sorry, bud. You don't live in 1872 on the frontier, you live in an area where farmers and non-farmers live in close proximity. If you don't want to spend your life in court, and fixing fences that mysteriously fall down, better learn to deal with neighbors...and their pets.


He's "dealing with it." He's using hot lead to enforce his code of personal responsibility.
 
2013-02-22 11:47:10 AM

sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...


Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.



This is what I came to say.  I have a dog that is part Great Pyrenees, dogs of similar size, temperment and are also herding/guarding dogs.  My dog has tried to herd little kids, ducks, anything small and in a group, but if he has an aggressive bone in his body, I've never seen it.  My friend who has had several Berners over the years said hers behave the exact same way.

I agree that owners should be responsible for keeping their dogs enclosed, but I'd be righteously pissed if mine got out and someone shot them before at least attempting to run them off or contact the owners.
 
2013-02-22 11:48:01 AM

Ker_Thwap: Those cuddly lovable family pets snap into predator mode the second they see... prey.  Any dog owner knows or should know that when your dog sees a squirrel, all bets are off.


[citation_needed.jpg]
 
2013-02-22 11:48:23 AM

KanedaJD: kortex: sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...

First - two dogs had attacked his livestock and killed sheep and an alpaca...   they were not these dogs, they were not this breed.

Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.

The sheep were in an enclosure that really could only be accessed by a human, they were basically let in by "someone"...
Although they were pets, this is a murder, a heinous destruction with premeditation and malice of forethought of life.

It's amazing how you take zero responsibility in the fact that you let your dogs roam and wreak havoc.  Are you aware of every thing that your dogs do while you're not watching them?  You can assume, but never know.  If we always knew what dogs were doing while not being watched, there would be zero dog attacks.  Take some responsibility.

Responsibility isn't a concept these folks are able to grasp. Their dogs can run anywhere the fark they want at any time, and if you have the audacity to defend your property or say otherwise, you're a 'murderer' and a 'aspie libersomething'.

These are the same type of people who don't control their kids in restaraunts, because fark everyone else, that's why


Too true.
 
2013-02-22 11:50:00 AM

Qaiwolf: homelessdude: a pair of untamed, spastic, pure bread $1,000 dogs got out of the yard

What a loaf of crap!

/I know I know


Hey you, people who can't spell are what makes this country grate.
 
2013-02-22 11:51:13 AM

BrianGriffin: offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.

QFT


I'd never trust a man who judges his fellow man based solely on 'affinity for dogs'. It can't be the only poor decision-making skill they possess.
 
2013-02-22 11:51:56 AM
If the dogs knew about the sheep and made a bee-line straight there through a half mile of territory in 5 minutes, it sorta sounds like this was not exploration, but a habit... perhaps there's more to this story than we've been told by the grieving owners so far?

/There are roads near me where I won't ride a bicycle because folks let their dogs run free.
//Don't like getting chased.
///Don't want to bother packing pepper spray/dog repellant.
 
2013-02-22 11:56:03 AM

freetomato: sdkOyOte: Knowledge is a big deal in this...


Second - Bernese Mountain dogs are fairly docile dogs bred for draft work and herding. Which is most likely what they would have engaged in if they were in with the sheep.


This is what I came to say.  I have a dog that is part Great Pyrenees, dogs of similar size, temperment and are also herding/guarding dogs.  My dog has tried to herd little kids, ducks, anything small and in a group, but if he has an aggressive bone in his body, I've never seen it.  My friend who has had several Berners over the years said hers behave the exact same way.

I agree that owners should be responsible for keeping their dogs enclosed, but I'd be righteously pissed if mine got out and someone shot them before at least attempting to run them off or contact the owners.


I believe you when you say your dogs are like that, but the guy doesn't know it and the sheep certainly won't. That's why the law is worded the way it is, prey animals that become panicked can hurt themselves when they have nowhere to flee to. That's why the dog doesn't have to directly harm them, just pursuing or worrying livestock is enough. I know that seems like a very low threshold, but that's how the law was written because farmers have to be able to act swiftly to protect their animals from a dog that doesn't belong there.
 
2013-02-22 11:58:15 AM
Controlling your animals is important, and if this was a case of dogs repeatedly escaping their property and owners who did not take responsibility for their actions, I would not have much issue with it, other than those peopple being bad owners.

Assuming that these people are somehow serial offenders with no history or knowledge of them is pretty shiat7y, even by fark conservatives and teatards. Its nice to ride that high horse until you fall off, you know absolutely nothing other than what people have posted here most likely and have followed a trail o f assumption using your own misguided logic to make judgements that have no base in reality about these people, this incident, or the dogs. Go ahead, pat yourselves on t he back for being terds in life.
 
2013-02-22 12:01:08 PM
Nowhere in the article does it state this douchebag lost any sheep to the dogs in question. No mention of any sheep being hurt THAT day (just in the past), so he over-reacted, period. If the article had stated that they had already injured or killed one or more sheep, okay then. But there is no mention of that. Since he didn't know that these were the same dogs, unless he observed them attacking his sheep (not just stalking them), he could've exercised some discretion and gone outside and fired some warning shots near the dogs. These were domesticated pets...and they WOULD have bolted. Hell, wolves in the wild would probably bolt if you fired a shotgun in the air close to them. LOUD NOISES scare the crap out of anything except dogs trained for hunting, e.g. labs. My own lab-mix hears a loud car and she freaks out. Not many dogs can ignore fireworks. So, unless these were hunting dogs and trained to sit still when a shot gun goes off, if this idiot had simply fired a warning shot, they would've likely turned tail and ran.

Look, just because someone has the right to do something like "defend his property" with this level of force doesn't make it the right thing to do. This guy either was purposely being an anti-dog dickwad, or he went into panic mode without even thinking (the taped phone message makes it sound like the former).

Finally, whenever these kind of threads pop up here on Fark, it always ends up being an argument between people who view dogs as "things" and "not human so why do you give so much of a shiat" and others, like me, who view their dogs as family members. Neither side is gonna budge on this point. You either appreciate and love dogs for the wonderful creatures they are (with qualities few humans exhibit, e.g. loyalty, forgiveness, unconditional love) or you think they are no better than pet turtles or, worse yet, inanimate things. Frankly, as I've stated on a previous thread, if I ran into a burning building and saw a person (I didn't know) and a dog, I'd rescue the dog first. I have met damn few dogs I didn't like and way too many people who I can't stand.
 
2013-02-22 12:01:37 PM

KanedaJD: BrianGriffin: offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.

QFT

I'd never trust a man who judges his fellow man based solely on 'affinity for dogs'. It can't be the only poor decision-making skill they possess.


Where exactly did he say solely? I would imagine it being 'in conjunction with'...
 
2013-02-22 12:01:44 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Another responsible gun owner heard from.

Glad to see this phrase is now completely meaningless.


Just look at how many of the mass murders were committed with other people's guns.  Yeah, "responsible gun owner" is entirely meaningless.
 
2013-02-22 12:02:18 PM

kortex: Meatschool: kortex: I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.

Dang dude. I'm on the farmer's side in this thing, live in the country, and *I* think the above statement is just dickish.  Go troll somewhere else.

Not trolling at all. Dogs are a large useless waste of resources. If people did not keep unnecessary pets: less cattle, hogs and chicken would have to be raised. The impact would be astounding. I would definitely shoot your stupid dog.


Your now my favorite Asshole! Congrats
 
2013-02-22 12:04:40 PM

pyrotek85: I believe you when you say your dogs are like that, but the guy doesn't know it and the sheep certainly won't. That's why the law is worded the way it is, prey animals that become panicked can hurt themselves when they have nowhere to flee to. That's why the dog doesn't have to directly harm them, just pursuing or worrying livestock is enough. I know that seems like a very low threshold, but that's how the law was written because farmers have to be able to act swiftly to protect their animals from a dog that doesn't belong there.


This guy did know what these dogs were like, as he knew the neighbors well enough to leave a message "Two dogs dead, two more bullets" on their answering machine. While I can sympathize his previous experience with other dogs having attacked his livestock, and agree he has a right to defend that livestock, that does not give him right to allow these dogs into an enclosed space they could not have entered without someone opening the enclosure for them and executing them to make  a point to his neighbors. These neighbors and these dogs had no previous history of being a nuisance to this man and his property until this instance when he found inspiration to act as he did.

It is the owners responsibility to control the dogs, these people were not allowing their dogs to run free, the sheep were in an enclosure that could not have been accessed by the dogs without human intervention. As facts inthis incident become more clear, there is a pattern of some serious BS. The more you know...
 
2013-02-22 12:05:28 PM
 NOVanHelsing
...and I would be completely justified in gunning you down.

See  section .080

http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/503-00/CHAPTER.HTM

/not a threat.  Just a statement...
Only if the pen is inside your dwelling. So, no, you wouldn't be justified unless you actually live in your barn.
 
2013-02-22 12:06:11 PM

R. Paulson: kortex: Meatschool: kortex: I would love to shoot all the dogs around my house.  If I lived in the country, I'd shoot any dog that came on my property.  They are noisy, shiat everywhere and consume too much food that could go other places.

Dang dude. I'm on the farmer's side in this thing, live in the country, and *I* think the above statement is just dickish.  Go troll somewhere else.

Not trolling at all. Dogs are a large useless waste of resources. If people did not keep unnecessary pets: less cattle, hogs and chicken would have to be raised. The impact would be astounding. I would definitely shoot your stupid dog.

Your now my favorite Asshole! Congrats


Thanks.  Do you wanna hang out?
 
2013-02-22 12:06:16 PM

KanedaJD: BrianGriffin: offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.

QFT

I'd never trust a man who judges his fellow man based solely on 'affinity for dogs'. It can't be the only poor decision-making skill they possess.


I don't get that reasoning either.

But then, people who claim their dogs are like family, and keep them for affection, tend to be damaged. Unable to form meaningful relationships with other people, they meet their need to feel loved by exploiting the pack instincts of animals and through training them, often with abuse used to induce desired behaviors.
 
2013-02-22 12:08:27 PM

KrispyKritter: offmymeds: TheJoe03: It's why I don't trust people who hate dogs and/or would treat them poorly. Unless you have an allergy or a dog attacked you or hurt someone you loved, it's a sign you're a bad person.

Never trust a man who doesn't like dogs and never trust a man who dogs don't like.

what these two said, and i hope farmer gets ass cancer. slow, painful ass cancer.


I'm a dog lover, but if an outside predator comes onto the farm and threatens the livestock, you protect your property.
 
2013-02-22 12:11:33 PM

rustypouch: they meet their need to feel loved by exploiting the pack instincts of animals and through training the

m, often with abuse used to induce desired behaviors.

You're at least 10000 years late.  Domesticated dogs aren't trained to show affection to people, they're bred for it, and they don't need to be abused for it.
 
2013-02-22 12:13:37 PM

sdkOyOte: pyrotek85: I believe you when you say your dogs are like that, but the guy doesn't know it and the sheep certainly won't. That's why the law is worded the way it is, prey animals that become panicked can hurt themselves when they have nowhere to flee to. That's why the dog doesn't have to directly harm them, just pursuing or worrying livestock is enough. I know that seems like a very low threshold, but that's how the law was written because farmers have to be able to act swiftly to protect their animals from a dog that doesn't belong there.

This guy did know what these dogs were like, as he knew the neighbors well enough to leave a message "Two dogs dead, two more bullets" on their answering machine. While I can sympathize his previous experience with other dogs having attacked his livestock, and agree he has a right to defend that livestock, that does not give him right to allow these dogs into an enclosed space they could not have entered without someone opening the enclosure for them and executing them to make  a point to his neighbors. These neighbors and these dogs had no previous history of being a nuisance to this man and his property until this instance when he found inspiration to act as he did.

It is the owners responsibility to control the dogs, these people were not allowing their dogs to run free, the sheep were in an enclosure that could not have been accessed by the dogs without human intervention. As facts inthis incident become more clear, there is a pattern of some serious BS. The more you know...


If it's true that he lured them in and trapped them then I'd agree with you, but the owners now want to change a perfectly good law because the guy (may have) acted wrongly in this case. If he did act wrongly then that's one thing, but people here are also arguing against the law itself, claiming ridiculous things like the sheep should have known the dogs weren't a danger. Again, the farmer may have acted badly, I don't know because I wasn't there. But I agree with the law itself, and it doesn't need to be changed because most people know to keep their dogs off of other people's property. It's well known around here that your dog will get shot for that since lots of people keep livestock, even something as basic as chickens.
 
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