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(Talking Points Memo)   Great moment in American history: Lincoln tells Americans civil war is over, way forward is by reconciliation. Not so great moment in American history: McCain tells Aurora victim's mother she can forget about assault weapons ban to pass. Crowd cheers   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 586
    More: Sad, John McCain, assault weapons ban, Americans, morning, civil wars, Crowd cheers, assault weapons  
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4166 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Feb 2013 at 12:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 08:11:53 PM
No hero tag?
 
2013-02-21 08:12:51 PM
i361.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-21 08:19:23 PM
Reconstruction not so much.
 
2013-02-21 08:21:18 PM
It's almost like you can prevent the Auroa's of the world without taking guns away from law abiding citizens. Mental health reform and strong ban lists will save more people from gun crime then banning the sale of a rifle will.  By pushing for a ban on assault weapons, gun control supporters are doing nothing to stop gun crime, and by their actions ensuring that more innocent people die from handgun related crimes.
 
2013-02-21 08:21:29 PM
oi.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No hero tag?


generally speaking, wallowing in one's mental retardation isn't considered heroic.
 
2013-02-21 08:23:10 PM

WTF Indeed: By pushing for a ban on assault weapons, gun control supporters are doing nothing to stop gun crime, and by their actions ensuring that more innocent people die from handgun related crimes.


Funny the opponents of the bans are also opposed to better mental health care, universal gun registration etc.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 08:24:05 PM

SilentStrider: wallowing in one's mental retardation isn't considered heroic.


Since it did nothing, they let the original AWB sunset. So there's no more retardation to wallow in anymore!
 
2013-02-21 08:24:32 PM

WhyteRaven74: Funny the opponents of the bans are also opposed to better mental health care, universal gun registration etc.


Not all. It's almost like there is this middle ground in America where people can compromise on issues and create a better world.
 
2013-02-21 08:32:01 PM

WTF Indeed: Not all. It's almost like there is this middle ground in America where people can compromise on issues and create a better world.


Exactly how does on compromise on mental health care? Let's provide it only for half the people! Also what rational objection is there to gun registration?
 
2013-02-21 08:37:06 PM

WhyteRaven74: Exactly how does on compromise on mental health care? Let's provide it only for half the people! Also what rational objection is there to gun registration?


Right now the only two sides to this argument that are in legislative form are a ban on assault weapons and no changes at all.  Taking the side of a strong mental health system and better gun screening is both effective in stopping the sale of handguns to dangerous people(handguns being the main weapon used in gun related crimes, and is also the most legislatively feasible.
 
2013-02-21 08:39:05 PM
From my redlit thread:


To any Fark conservative who still has at least some grip on reality:  For your own sake, and for the sake of the country, please switch parties.  Become a democrat; become an independent; become a jaded apolitical sob for all I care.  But PLEASE, do something.  The party that calls itself the "GOP" has left you behind a long time ago, and you do not want to follow where they are going.
 
2013-02-21 08:39:08 PM

WTF Indeed: It's almost like you can prevent the Auroa's of the world without taking guns away from law abiding citizens. Mental health reform and strong ban lists will save more people from gun crime then banning the sale of a rifle will.  By pushing for a ban on assault weapons, gun control supporters are doing nothing to stop gun crime, and by their actions ensuring that more innocent people die from handgun related crimes.


Because countries with better gun control have more crime than the US and my morning milk comes from cats.
 
2013-02-21 08:41:14 PM

TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.


Losers pick up the tab. Republicans, at the time, understood this. They could have been RINOs, though. Thought provoking...
 
2013-02-21 08:41:16 PM
Gun control proponents are losing this battle to the worst NRA leadership in history because instead of thinking about what's politically possible they prefer to jerk off to the thought of a gun ban.
 
2013-02-21 08:41:26 PM

WTF Indeed: It's almost like you can prevent the Auroa's of the world without taking guns away from law abiding citizens. Mental health reform and strong ban lists will save more people from gun crime then banning the sale of a rifle will.  By pushing for a ban on assault weapons, gun control supporters are doing nothing to stop gun crime, and by their actions ensuring that more innocent people die from handgun related crimes.


That's just not true. Crazy people will do crazy things regardless, and plenty of the spree shooters were never diagnosed or treated with mental illness prior to committing their crimes. The difference is that in countries where there are strict gun controls, people lash out in crazy ways using knives, cars, etc. (the improvised flame thrower someone brought up in a previous thread was a particularly creative weapon), but the body counts of those types of attacks tend to be much lower, since it takes more time and effort to kill people without the aid of a gun.

Mental health reform should definitely be discussed, and is indeed something we should be concerned about as a society, but the sad thing about this is that people are using the mental health issue as a screen for the gun issue, saying "oh, it's not a gun issue, it's a crazy person issue" when the truth is it's both. The NRA, who, for better or worse, seem to write the talking points, were all for universal background checks and closing the gun show loophole when they knew it wasn't going to happen, but now that it's really a possibility they are disavowing it. It makes me doubt whether people who say they want mental health reform actually would support it if it became a possibility, or are merely saying it so that they can pretend that they are attempting to find a solution.

Personally, I don't much care either way about banning assault weapons, but limiting magazine sizes, having mandatory background checks, and closing the private sale exemption all seem eminently reasonable.
 
2013-02-21 08:41:49 PM

WTF Indeed: Right now the only two sides to this argument that are in legislative form are a ban on assault weapons


Um, no, not really. See: The NY State gun law that requires background checks and strengthens mental health reporting.
 
2013-02-21 08:42:15 PM
Seriously though, will you gun nuts stop freaking out?? I had to go to three, THREE gun stores today to get a box of .40 range rounds. And they'd only sell me one box because people are hoarding them. Gun nuts, known it off.
 
2013-02-21 08:43:37 PM

WTF Indeed: Gun control proponents are losing this battle


Not in NY they aren't!

Also, not in the court of public opinion either. Have you seen the opinion polls on restricting high-capacity magazines and universal background checks lately?
 
2013-02-21 08:44:11 PM
 
2013-02-21 08:45:01 PM

mrshowrules: Because countries with better gun control have more crime than the US and my morning milk comes from cats.


Canada has more guns per captia then US with a drastically lower crime rate. India is gun free-society and has extermely high violent crime rates.  Guess what, numbers lie. The issue here is do you want to stuff gun deaths, the majority of which are linked to handguns or do you want to jerk off to the thought of banning a rifle?
 
2013-02-21 08:45:19 PM

WTF Indeed: Gun control proponents are losing this battle to the worst NRA leadership in history because instead of thinking about what's politically possible they prefer to jerk off to the thought of a gun ban.


This. I'm all for responsible firearm regulation, such as advanced screenings or even registration or mandatory safety classes, but when you have an 80 year old woman with her finger on the trigger of a combat rifle as the spokesperson for your gun control movement, yeah, fark that, I'll side with the NRA all day.
 
2013-02-21 08:46:47 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Um, no, not really. See: The NY State gun law that requires background checks and strengthens mental health reporting.


New York is not national. I am speaking nationally.
 
2013-02-21 08:47:39 PM

TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.


You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners
 
2013-02-21 08:48:17 PM

WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: Um, no, not really. See: The NY State gun law that requires background checks and strengthens mental health reporting.

New York is not national. I am speaking nationally.


Oh, then check out efforts by the Mayors Against Illegal Guns and others.
 
2013-02-21 08:49:27 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: when you have an 80 year old woman with her finger on the trigger of a combat rifle as the spokesperson for your gun control movement, yeah, fark that, I'll side with the NRA all day.


Why not concern yourself with the actual policies rather than who is promoting those policies?  Are you really that shallow?
 
2013-02-21 08:50:40 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Oh, then check out efforts by the Mayors Against Illegal Guns and others.


The Vice President of the United States goes on TV saying you don't need an AR-15.  No one gives a sh*t about what a group of Mayors says when the President and vice president are advocating a gun ban.  This is politics 101 for ya, when the President says something it becomes the defacto stance for one party in the two party system we have.
 
2013-02-21 08:50:45 PM
I smell a party coming on in here.

By the way, just because my history degree dictates that I be "that guy," I must now point out the irony (not sure if actual or Alannic) of using that example of Lincoln when it led to him becoming the victim of a gun crime.

There.  Have fun flaming the thread, boys!
 
2013-02-21 08:50:58 PM

WTF Indeed: mrshowrules: Because countries with better gun control have more crime than the US and my morning milk comes from cats.

Canada has more guns per captia then US with a drastically lower crime rate. India is gun free-society and has extermely high violent crime rates.  Guess what, numbers lie. The issue here is do you want to stuff gun deaths, the majority of which are linked to handguns or do you want to jerk off to the thought of banning a rifle?


The ugly truth is that the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by young urban males with low-capacity handguns, yet the current wave of gun control talk is all aimed at recreational gun enthusiasts and rifle users, statistically the lowest risk demographic of gun crime. Oh well, even if it doesn't actually help the problem, at least someone has some good re-election points.
 
2013-02-21 08:51:29 PM

WTF Indeed: mrshowrules: Because countries with better gun control have more crime than the US and my morning milk comes from cats.

Canada has more guns per captia then US with a drastically lower crime rate. India is gun free-society and has extermely high violent crime rates.  Guess what, numbers lie. The issue here is do you want to stuff gun deaths, the majority of which are linked to handguns or do you want to jerk off to the thought of banning a rifle?


Canada also has socialized healthcare and tries to limit the church from intertwining with the state. Perhaps we should consider all variables.

/Lobs grenade
//Ducks
 
2013-02-21 08:51:50 PM

eraser8: TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.

You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners


Hey, a bigoted douchebag. Hi bigoted douchebag! ::waves::
 
2013-02-21 08:52:41 PM
My post on the redlit link:


Rights are to be fought for.

Whether you like it or not, gun ownership is a right.

Those on the right fight as hard as the left does on preserving abortion rights. We all know that the "reasonable laws" were designed to fight abortion and get it outlawed. This is as well how the right see gun rights. They are fighting with all their might against "reasonable laws" because they use it themselves for tactics and they know what is truly on the mind of those attempting to limit rights.

/This is the mindset.
 
2013-02-21 08:53:13 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The ugly truth is that the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by young urban males


Hahaha, First of all that's wrong. Most shooting victims are killed by someone they know, not random "urban" crime.  Your NRA handbook sucks ass.
 
2013-02-21 08:54:10 PM

WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: Um, no, not really. See: The NY State gun law that requires background checks and strengthens mental health reporting.

New York is not national. I am speaking nationally.


Gun-control advocates ARE losing the battle...but, that, quite frankly, is an artifact of living in a system in which the popular will is always subordinated to the will of those who fund elections.

Still, the popular will isn't always rational.  And, I don't quite see how the gun control measures being advocated will have an appreciable effect on gun violence.  Sure, it might prevent spectacular, single events like Sandy Hook...but, I don't think they'd affect the gross numbers of deaths to any significant degree.
 
2013-02-21 08:54:22 PM

eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: when you have an 80 year old woman with her finger on the trigger of a combat rifle as the spokesperson for your gun control movement, yeah, fark that, I'll side with the NRA all day.

Why not concern yourself with the actual policies rather than who is promoting those policies?  Are you really that shallow?


Says the douchebag who just derogatorily demonized an entire geographical region. Oh sweet irony!
 
2013-02-21 08:54:47 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: eraser8: TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.

You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners

Hey, a bigoted douchebag. Hi bigoted douchebag! ::waves::


How do you figure I'm a bigoted douchebag?  Be specific.
 
2013-02-21 08:56:00 PM

WTF Indeed: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The ugly truth is that the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by young urban males

Hahaha, First of all that's wrong. Most shooting victims are killed by someone they know, not random "urban" crime.  Your NRA handbook sucks ass.


The NRA has a handbook?
 
2013-02-21 08:56:41 PM

cman: My post on the redlit link:


Rights are to be fought for.

Whether you like it or not, gun ownership is a right.

Those on the right fight as hard as the left does on preserving abortion rights. We all know that the "reasonable laws" were designed to fight abortion and get it outlawed. This is as well how the right see gun rights. They are fighting with all their might against "reasonable laws" because they use it themselves for tactics and they know what is truly on the mind of those attempting to limit rights.

/This is the mindset.


ah, in that context, this makes a lot more sense now!  :)
 
2013-02-21 08:56:48 PM

eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: eraser8: TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.

You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners

Hey, a bigoted douchebag. Hi bigoted douchebag! ::waves::

How do you figure I'm a bigoted douchebag?  Be specific.


Dow Jones uses prejudice and stereotypes to biatch about their own internal stereotypes
 
2013-02-21 08:57:36 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Says the douchebag who just derogatorily demonized an entire geographical region. Oh sweet irony!


I haven't demonized anyone.  I've described the area I live in.

But, serious question: have you ever demonized an entire group?  An ethnic or racial group, say?
 
2013-02-21 08:57:42 PM

cman: eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: eraser8: TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.

You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners

Hey, a bigoted douchebag. Hi bigoted douchebag! ::waves::

How do you figure I'm a bigoted douchebag?  Be specific.

Dow Jones uses prejudice and stereotypes to biatch about others grasp of stereotypes


Fixt. My bad
 
2013-02-21 08:57:53 PM

eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: eraser8: TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.

You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners

Hey, a bigoted douchebag. Hi bigoted douchebag! ::waves::

How do you figure I'm a bigoted douchebag?  Be specific.


You seem awfully bigoted against against southerners, dude.
 
2013-02-21 08:58:11 PM
Also, from the redlit thread:

The GOP can no longer be considered as rational actors in the American democratic process.  Scenes like the one in TFA, even after an electoral drubbing in 2012, only cements the fact that the actual GOP has been completely zombified (half-life style) by the cancer that they created and cultivated.  They are bereft of any rational response to any given issue, and lack any coherent message that does not somehow relate to "Obama sucks" or "it's all the non-white folks' fault".

And as the recent flap with the WWE demonstrated, they can't even stand to see a reflection of themselves in the mirror.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 08:58:24 PM

WTF Indeed: Not all. It's almost like there is this middle ground in America where people can compromise on issues and create a better world.


Shocking news!

/isn't republican
//supports background checks
 
2013-02-21 08:58:43 PM

cman: cman: eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: eraser8: TheDumbBlonde: Reconstruction not so much.

You're right.  If the South had been reconstructed, it wouldn't be full of so many goddamned morons who vote for Republicans that do little more than fark them in the ass.

Of course, the Southern ethos seems to be: hey, if the GOP's policies screw the darkies and the Messicans, I'm on board -- even if it hurts me, too.

/source: I live in the South; I work with Southerners

Hey, a bigoted douchebag. Hi bigoted douchebag! ::waves::

How do you figure I'm a bigoted douchebag?  Be specific.

Dow Jones uses prejudice and stereotypes to biatch about others grasp of stereotypes

Fixt. My bad


Ok maybe I shouldn't be posting when I am high, or ever again
 
2013-02-21 08:59:34 PM

WTF Indeed: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The ugly truth is that the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by young urban males

Hahaha, First of all that's wrong. Most shooting victims are killed by someone they know, not random "urban" crime.  Your NRA handbook sucks ass.


You're both right, to an extent.  Most victims know their attackers, but more gun crimes do occur in highly concentrated urban areas than rural areas.
 
2013-02-21 09:00:16 PM

eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Says the douchebag who just derogatorily demonized an entire geographical region. Oh sweet irony!

I haven't demonized anyone.  I've described the area I live in.

But, serious question: have you ever demonized an entire group?  An ethnic or racial group, say?


98% of my posts on this site demonize racial/ethnic groups. The difference is I admit to it :)
 
2013-02-21 09:00:43 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Also, from the redlit thread:

The GOP can no longer be considered as rational actors in the American democratic process.  Scenes like the one in TFA, even after an electoral drubbing in 2012, only cements the fact that the actual GOP has been completely zombified (half-life style) by the cancer that they created and cultivated.  They are bereft of any rational response to any given issue, and lack any coherent message that does not somehow relate to "Obama sucks" or "it's all the non-white folks' fault".

And as the recent flap with the WWE demonstrated, they can't even stand to see a reflection of themselves in the mirror.


WWE isnt making a political statement.

Vince McMahon peed his pants on national tv because he thought it would be funny.

The WWE thought that raping a corpse would be funny

The WWE thought that a guy who ate worms was funny

It is about Entertainment. This is what the WWE does.
 
2013-02-21 09:00:48 PM
I wish they would have kept the video going to include his whole explanation.  It sounded like he was stating that the ban wouldn't pass congress, which is true.

Honestly, Congress couldn't pass a BM after chili day at this point.
 
2013-02-21 09:01:40 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: WTF Indeed: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The ugly truth is that the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by young urban males

Hahaha, First of all that's wrong. Most shooting victims are killed by someone they know, not random "urban" crime.  Your NRA handbook sucks ass.

You're both right, to an extent.  Most victims know their attackers, but more gun crimes do occur in highly concentrated urban areas than rural areas.


The urban youth part is the new "black men" frame for the GOP. That's what I took offense too.
 
2013-02-21 09:03:21 PM

WTF Indeed: Grand_Moff_Joseph: WTF Indeed: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The ugly truth is that the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated by young urban males

Hahaha, First of all that's wrong. Most shooting victims are killed by someone they know, not random "urban" crime.  Your NRA handbook sucks ass.

You're both right, to an extent.  Most victims know their attackers, but more gun crimes do occur in highly concentrated urban areas than rural areas.

The urban youth part is the new "black men" frame for the GOP. That's what I took offense too.


Oh, you're offended, so you must be right. Fark has a lot of those lately.
 
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