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(Click On Detroit)   Oh, so you left the state for 4 years to serve in the Navy? You're an out-of-state student now. Pay up   (clickondetroit.com) divider line 40
    More: Asinine, University of Michigan, tuition, Michigan, students  
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9785 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 3:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-21 10:33:57 PM
5 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


Well, let me explain it to you in a manner you might understand. You're volunteering to potentially get your ass shot off for your country.

If you consider that just like any other job, I would like to sell you some land in Afghanistan.

/Farkin' dumbass troll.
2013-02-22 03:55:55 AM
3 votes:
Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet
2013-02-21 08:53:04 PM
3 votes:
Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.
2013-02-22 03:23:24 AM
2 votes:
Dear America

Ever.  Single.  F*cking.  Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

All of it.

The church is being remodeled.  Try not to step on the whores, the lawyers or the crack pipes
2013-02-21 11:30:40 PM
2 votes:

GAT_00: AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.

States are incredibly strapped for money, that's why.


I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

Of course, in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.So, maybe the politicians slipped something by that most state residents didn't catch.Like SO many Americans who allegedly support their military by putting yellow ribbon magnets on their SUVs but still vote Republican.
2013-02-21 10:38:09 PM
2 votes:

Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.


We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?
2013-02-21 08:32:34 PM
2 votes:

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


No, but there are a lot of states playing games trying to force servicemen to change their residence for tax and retirement purposes.

Connecticut, I'm looking at you.
2013-02-21 08:26:48 PM
2 votes:
I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?
2013-02-21 08:20:51 PM
2 votes:
Too bad he wasn't an illegal alien.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 08:06:19 PM
2 votes:
He appealed his case but it took about four months to get his classification changed, so he had to pay the higher tuition until then.

So he said he was a veteran and they gave him his money back.

In some contexts federal law protects veterans from being re-domiciled as a result of duty assignments. I don't know if tuition is one of them. When the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act was originally passed tuition discrimination wasn't a problem.
2013-02-22 07:55:22 PM
1 votes:

dahmers love zombie: On the enlistment paperwork was there a guarantee that he wouldn't be sent out of state?  If not, then he needs to STFU and pay up like everyone else who took an out-of-state job to make money for school.


This.

Sorry, it doesn't matter if he took a job in the military or asking if somebody wanted fries with that, if he left the state for work, he's not a resident any more.
2013-02-22 06:28:49 PM
1 votes:
Today I learned that the easiest way to troll is to express the opinion that serving in the military doesn't make you special.

The Vietnam war has a lot to answer for (and so do the arseholes who were spitting on people)

Serving in the military does not make you a god. You've decided to make public service your life's calling and that's admirable in most cases. However the shiat people in the military have to put up with is not a badge of honor, it's horrendous and should be reported and dealt with as such, not spouted as "this makes us better than you". Personally I would rather be able to express my admiration for their public service by NOT sending the men and women in the military to war and instead make the lives of people who've dedicated theirs to public service such that they do not have to rely on WIC when they've got 2 kids and a wife.
2013-02-22 01:40:57 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

Well, let me explain it to you in a manner you might understand. You're volunteering to potentially get your ass shot off for your country.

If you consider that just like any other job, I would like to sell you some land in Afghanistan.

/Farkin' dumbass troll.


cops get shot at.
firefighters run in to buildings that are on fire.
paramedics have to stick their hands into people that could be diseased/armed/carrying needles.

Armed Services are a hard, dangerous job, but lets not pretend that its the ONLY hard or dangerous job.

Yeah, there are some duty positions out there that have your ass on patrol in bad spots. But he honest, there are a lot of army jobs out there that are quite comfy 'in the rear with the gear'.  Meanwhile i have a buddy on the night shift in an ambulance in the south bronx who, on a daily basis, has to put hands on people who want to kill/rob/stab him as he is trying to pick them up out of the gutter.
2013-02-22 10:04:24 AM
1 votes:
Unless he changed his original state while in the military Uof M screwed up. Federal Law -The Servicemembers Civil Relief Act  (SCRA) (originally the Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act passed in 1940) allows for SVM to maintain their state. There are many other rights under this law, and they are frequently violated. For example, many interest rates are capped at 6% when  entering active duty.

I work with the military and we're regularly advising SVM what to do when their rights have been violated. One sailor tried to get his car loan interet rate lowered to 6%. The car loan company claimed that their county (Not even their state) had a local law that overrode the SCRA. We sent the kid to base legal and they helped him.

If you know anyone in the military or a vet who feels they had their SCRA rights violated, have them contact legal.
2013-02-22 08:18:47 AM
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: InfrasonicTom: Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.

If a for-profit venture suffers a shortfall, it marks it on the books and hopes to make it up next quarter.

If the assets of a non-profit go negative, the non-profit disappears forever.



Wanna show me the last time a state university went belly up?

I'm sorry you're naive enough to believe that colleges which designate themselves as non-profit are telling the truth.

Here's a secret, churches aren't really non-profit either.
2013-02-22 08:18:30 AM
1 votes:

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


He probably did what my cousin did, which was a complete f*ck-up, and it's his fault. He checked the box stating he had been out of state for longer than X time and / or changed his permanent mailing address. I, on the other hand, was not stupid. I kept my permanent mailing address at my parent's house and absentee voted in my state.

They aren't biased against veterans, just idiots.
2013-02-22 07:08:06 AM
1 votes:

Earguy: Public Relations nightmare.  This will get fixed and quick.


Universities are all about money these days.

The past 20 years have been like a golden age with a boom in funding and cheap student loans.
They hired tons of administrators and inflated everyone's salaries.
They're so focused on bringing in money that they may not worry too much about publicity at first.
2013-02-22 06:35:11 AM
1 votes:
Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.
2013-02-22 06:07:21 AM
1 votes:
Just yesterday, the Washington Post had a story about a different soldier with the same problem in Virginia. She continued paying VA income taxes while away, but George Mason U. still wants to call her out-of-state. She went through 3 levels of internal appeals before having a court rule in her favor -- but GMU is going to appeal to the Supreme Court.

WTF is their problem? She's got a strong basis for being considered in-state. Why are they trying so hard to find reasons to deny it to her? Would it bankrupt a school with 33,000 students to let her have it? And this is a public university.

Bunch of heartless bureaucrats. Send them to Afghanistan, and see if the Taliban gives a shiat what state they're from.
2013-02-22 05:09:04 AM
1 votes:
ongbok: I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.

in other words, he had his cake and ate it too, due to some combination of being an overentitled snowflake who knows that if raises enough of a stink in today's climate it's political suicide to make our military 'heroes' follow the rules and some public sector employee who approved this because at the end of the day to him it was OPM.

some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.
2013-02-22 04:59:11 AM
1 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: The WindowLicker: AirForceVet: I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

This could also be the university attempting to maximize the amount of tuition money that they get out of the Post 9/11 GI bill.

Honestly I am shocked at how much public, in state tuitions have gone up in the last few years.

Man, THIS.

My Dad and I both worked our way through in state state university.  He worked more than I probably did, but I got decent pay for 20-30 hours of lab work a week my last two years.  He covered most of his tuition not covered by scholarships. There was no way, mathematically, that I could even dream of doing the same.  Even if i pulled 40+ hours / week *on top* of school.


Universities aren't about education anymore.  Or academia.  They're about moving money around and placating the sociocultural postures of her people who supply it.  If you go full retail, they'll kiss your ass rosy pink, but good luck learning much outside of the vocational school template.  I mean, that's what education is for, isn't it?  To get a GOOD spot on the hamster wheel and make somebody else rich?  When you got people with baccalaureates who can barely navigate their native lingo in written form, you're not teaching people how to think.
2013-02-22 04:45:50 AM
1 votes:
U of M is a biatch when it comes to what qualifies you as an in-state resident.  I had a friend who spent 3 years of school here, 2 years of working while not in school - so 7 years total while he was 18-25 - , had filed income taxes for 5 years in Michigan, and according to U of M still counted as a Wisconsin resident for tuition purposes.  Even though he hadn't lived in the state for nearly 6 years, had a Michigan license for 6, Michigan bank, Michigan residence, etc...

Sucks for the veteran, but really f--king glad that they're gonna have to own up to the draconian policy.  As a Michigander, it's something I *should* support, but they take it too far.  Like an insurance company that looks for any i not dotted on your application form to throw you off the plan after you get cancer... it's a straight up money thing, even when it doesn't really seem f--kin g fair at all.

Still surprised they hit a born and raised Michigander.  Getting even *more* draconian apparently.
2013-02-22 04:14:57 AM
1 votes:

No Such Agency: bunner:
Ever. Single. F*cking. Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

Hey, there's a reason the top 0.1% of America reaped 120% of the gains from the latest economic recovery (ie. the rest of the country ended up worse off).


"Recovery" means "we stopped only doubling our money every month and we're back on track, now!" at 11 Wall, 10005
2013-02-22 03:55:44 AM
1 votes:

Enigmamf: Maybe it depends on the branch - I live very close to a Marine base, and it seems like a greatly disproportionate number of cars to what you would expect in California (a state where you must normally register the car within 14 days of moving here) carry Florida plates


That is odd.

As a Marine I do not know Anyone who has changed their residence to Florida for tax purposes.  Quite a few States have tax exclusions for military or people who spend the majority of their time outside the state.  I am from Maine, and as long as I spend less than 30 days a year in the state, I pay no income taxes.

My guess is that you live near MCAS Miramar.  The naval/Marine aviation training pipeline sends most Marines who work on/around/in aircraft through Florida.  Generally folks will buy a car when the paychecks start comming in (during training in florida), so it would make sense to see a lot of cars that have been purchased and registered in Florida at naval aviation units around the country.
2013-02-22 03:53:16 AM
1 votes:

Enigmamf: Maybe it depends on the branch - I live very close to a Marine base, and it seems like a greatly disproportionate number of cars to what you would expect in California (a state where you must normally register the car within 14 days of moving here) carry Florida plates.


I held a Michigan license but still had to put Texas plates on my car when I was stationed there. Never had a Texas drivers license.
2013-02-22 03:39:54 AM
1 votes:

OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."


Like all the soldiers who die thinking "I wish a doctor was here to save me"?
2013-02-22 03:37:54 AM
1 votes:
bunner:
Ever. Single. F*cking. Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

Hey, there's a reason the top 0.1% of America reaped 120% of the gains from the latest economic recovery (ie. the rest of the country ended up worse off).
2013-02-22 03:35:12 AM
1 votes:

Enigmamf: My assumption was (and still is - the article doesn't say otherwise) that the subject of this article changed his residency to Florida for exactly those purposes, but then started crying when he realized that he can't have his cake and eat it too (claim residency in Florida as well as in-state tuition in Michigan).


Why would you make an assumption that he changed his residency from Michigan? I spent 8 years in the Army, from Michigan by the way, and never once thought about changing my residence. I went in with a Michigan drivers license and came out with one. I don't remember ever hearing one person mention changing their state of residence for tax or any other purpose. We got some pretty sweet tax breaks anyways, there would be no reason to change your home state.
2013-02-22 01:53:26 AM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.


As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.
2013-02-21 11:59:05 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


You sound Brian Kilmeade stupid.
2013-02-21 11:49:42 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: doyner: AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.

Link? (not homepage)

No problem, doyner.

Here's the link to the Social Security webpage in question.

And here's the quote at issue. Note that this was effective POST-9/11.

Note: In January 2002, Public Law 107-117, the Defense Appropriations Act, stopped the special extra earnings that have been credited to military service personnel. Military service in calendar year 2002 and future years no longer qualifies for these special extra earnings credits.

/As I enlisted in the late 1970s, I don't fall under this law. Alas, too many who served under harder times than I did.
//So I'm a bit annoyed about the Republicans claiming they support the military as I don't see such after the kids come home.


Thanks.

It's sad that the last Republican to actually "support the troops" was Richard Nixon.
2013-02-21 11:47:01 PM
1 votes:

doyner: AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.

Link? (not homepage)


No problem, doyner.

Here's the link to the Social Security webpage in question.

And here's the quote at issue. Note that this was effective POST-9/11.

Note: In January 2002, Public Law 107-117, the Defense Appropriations Act, stopped the special extra earnings that have been credited to military service personnel. Military service in calendar year 2002 and future years no longer qualifies for these special extra earnings credits.

/As I enlisted in the late 1970s, I don't fall under this law. Alas, too many who served under harder times than I did.
//So I'm a bit annoyed about the Republicans claiming they support the military as I don't see such after the kids come home.
2013-02-21 11:32:36 PM
1 votes:

Godscrack: stupid enough to enlist


Really dude?
2013-02-21 11:32:15 PM
1 votes:

Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.


As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.
2013-02-21 10:43:11 PM
1 votes:
AirForceVet:We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?


This is the same question I have.  I've been in for almost seven years now and never changed my residency from my home state.  My taxes and voting are both still processed there, not where I live.  Last I checked, I would still get the in state rate for college.
2013-02-21 10:41:14 PM
1 votes:
Hello, I just illegally crossed the border to invade your country and suck on the taxpayer teet. Oh, okay...you get instate tuition.
2013-02-21 10:10:24 PM
1 votes:

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.
2013-02-21 09:34:17 PM
1 votes:

brerrabbit: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

No, but there are a lot of states playing games trying to force servicemen to change their residence for tax and retirement purposes.

Connecticut, I'm looking at you.


I am thinking this should be tackled at state level, Rick Snyder I am looking at you.  We sure honor vets from MI for a lot of things, but to let their service affect their education is lacking elementary understanding.  You can have a veteran license plate, but pay like an outsider, wait what?

/I will watch this, my oldest is considering this young man's path
2013-02-21 08:49:41 PM
1 votes:
I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.
2013-02-21 08:40:31 PM
1 votes:
Public Relations nightmare.  This will get fixed and quick.
 
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