Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Click On Detroit)   Oh, so you left the state for 4 years to serve in the Navy? You're an out-of-state student now. Pay up   (clickondetroit.com) divider line 147
    More: Asinine, University of Michigan, tuition, Michigan, students  
•       •       •

9795 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 3:06 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



147 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-22 09:57:53 AM  
I'm not exactly sure what is going on here. From the UofM site:

3.  Michigan Residents and Absences From the State
You may be able to retain your eligibility for resident classification under the conditions listed below if you are domiciled in Michigan as defined by University Residency Classification Guidelines and leave the state for certain types of activities.  However, if you have been absent from the state, you must file an Application for Resident Classification by the appropriate filing deadline to request resident classification and demonstrate your eligibility.


a.  Absence for Active Duty Military Service (U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Officers in the Public Health Service), Non-Administrative Missionary Work, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, or Similar Philanthropic Work
If you are domiciled in Michigan at the time of entry into active military duty, missionary work, Peace Corps, or similar service, you are presumed to retain your eligibility for resident classification as long as you are on continuous active duty or in continuous service and continuously claim Michigan as the state of legal residence for income tax purposes.  If you are a dependent child of such an individual, you are presumed to be eligible for resident classification provided: (1) you are coming to the University of Michigan directly from high school or have been continuously enrolled in college since graduating from high school, and (2) you have not claimed residency for tuition purposes elsewhere.


b.  Absence Due to Temporary Foreign Assignment
If you are a dependent student domiciled in Michigan with your parents immediately preceding an absence for a temporary foreign assignment with a parent's Michigan employer, you may retain your eligibility for resident classification provided (1) your family members hold temporary visas in the foreign country, and (2) you return directly to Michigan and remain in the state for educational purposes after leaving the foreign country.

c.  Temporary Absence of Less Than One Year
If you are independently domiciled in Michigan immediately preceding a temporary absence of less than one year, you are presumed to retain eligibility for resident classification provided that out-of-state ties are severed upon your return to Michigan.


It looks as though the policy already handles active duty military service. It seems very strange to me that the university would send someone a letter saying  "... that due to my overseas service that I may be considered an out-of-state resident." when their policy states the exact opposite.  It seems much more likely that either (a) the Univeresity made a mistake (which is still a problem, but not the same as a "war on veterans" people are making it out to be) or (b) this individual did something that resulted in a change of residency (e.g. accidentally filed taxes in a different state or filled out a form wrong) and had to fight to correct it.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:29 AM  
 
2013-02-22 10:02:31 AM  

Dheiner: While I realize that some states don't have State income taxes, Michigan does.  If you file state tax returns there, you're still a resident, if not you give up your right to resident tuition.  E-Z P-Z.


You get the option to maintain your residency. I decided to keep Michigan residence throughout all the years I was in the military. Almost all of those years were spent overseas. I still filed my taxes with the state of Michigan each year, it just happens that Michigan doesn't tax military income.
 
2013-02-22 10:04:24 AM  
Unless he changed his original state while in the military Uof M screwed up. Federal Law -The Servicemembers Civil Relief Act  (SCRA) (originally the Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act passed in 1940) allows for SVM to maintain their state. There are many other rights under this law, and they are frequently violated. For example, many interest rates are capped at 6% when  entering active duty.

I work with the military and we're regularly advising SVM what to do when their rights have been violated. One sailor tried to get his car loan interet rate lowered to 6%. The car loan company claimed that their county (Not even their state) had a local law that overrode the SCRA. We sent the kid to base legal and they helped him.

If you know anyone in the military or a vet who feels they had their SCRA rights violated, have them contact legal.
 
2013-02-22 10:56:29 AM  
Man leaves state for job, wants in-state tuition. What part of the story am I missing?
 
2013-02-22 11:09:50 AM  
There is no reason to swap out your Michigan residency (since military income isn't taxed).  However there might be tax incentives for your spouse or perhaps just incentives for simpler paperwork that caused a residence change.  One thing I saw in the military was a lot of people flipped their residency over to California (which also has tax breaks for active duty) because it made all the paperwork with car registration, driver's license, etc, easier.  The DMV was just down the street instead of a flight away.  I kept my residency in Michigan since my ass was on the DMZ an everything was a long flight away.

So he had to go in an appeal to the board on the grounds that while he might have a different driver's license in his pocket, he hadn't cheated the state out of any taxes.  Or perhaps he forgot to do the two state filings.  My daughter is in Cali for college but keeps her residency in Michigan and she files in both states (it breaks down to "I live here, but I earned all my income over there, so nothing is taxable here."). Perhaps someone was forgetting to drop the second return and made it look like a break in his residency.
 
2013-02-22 11:17:26 AM  

sterben: I'm not exactly sure what is going on here. From the UofM site:

3.  Michigan Residents and Absences From the State
You may be able to retain your eligibility for resident classification under the conditions listed below if you are domiciled in Michigan as defined by University Residency Classification Guidelines and leave the state for certain types of activities.  However, if you have been absent from the state, you must file an Application for Resident Classification by the appropriate filing deadline to request resident classification and demonstrate your eligibility.

a.  Absence for Active Duty Military Service (U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Officers in the Public Health Service), Non-Administrative Missionary Work, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, or Similar Philanthropic Work
If you are domiciled in Michigan at the time of entry into active military duty, missionary work, Peace Corps, or similar service, you are presumed to retain your eligibility for resident classification as long as you are on continuous active duty or in continuous service and continuously claim Michigan as the state of legal residence for income tax purposes.  If you are a dependent child of such an individual, you are presumed to be eligible for resident classification provided: (1) you are coming to the University of Michigan directly from high school or have been continuously enrolled in college since graduating from high school, and (2) you have not claimed residency for tuition purposes elsewhere.

b.  Absence Due to Temporary Foreign Assignment
If you are a dependent student domiciled in Michigan with your parents immediately preceding an absence for a temporary foreign assignment with a parent's Michigan employer, you may retain your eligibility for resident classification provided (1) your family members hold temporary visas in the foreign country, and (2) you return directly to Michigan and remain in the state for educational purposes after leaving the foreign country.

c.  Temporary Absence of Less Than One Year
If you are independently domiciled in Michigan immediately preceding a temporary absence of less than one year, you are presumed to retain eligibility for resident classification provided that out-of-state ties are severed upon your return to Michigan.

It looks as though the policy already handles active duty military service. It seems very strange to me that the university would send someone a letter saying  "... that due to my overseas service that I may be considered an out-of-state resident." when their policy states the exact opposite.  It seems much more likely that either (a) the Univeresity made a mistake (which is still a problem, but not the same as a "war on veterans" people are making it out to be) or (b) this individual did something that resulted in a change of residency (e.g. accidentally filed taxes in a different state or filled out a form wrong) and had to fight to correct it.


chances are the university already knows the law but is ignoring because it gets theme hundreds of thousands of dollars or more from servicemen who agree to pay out of state tuition.

Nonprofits do the same thing for profit companies due, they just wear as veil of sanctimony so they cash solicit donations.

University no longer have as much interest in quality of education or helping students get one, its really about the money.these days

You can blame Uncle Sam in part for that.
 
2013-02-22 11:19:10 AM  

Animatronik: sterben: I'm not exactly sure what is going on here. From the UofM site:

3.  Michigan Residents and Absences From the State
You may be able to retain your eligibility for resident classification under the conditions listed below if you are domiciled in Michigan as defined by University Residency Classification Guidelines and leave the state for certain types of activities.  However, if you have been absent from the state, you must file an Application for Resident Classification by the appropriate filing deadline to request resident classification and demonstrate your eligibility.

a.  Absence for Active Duty Military Service (U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Officers in the Public Health Service), Non-Administrative Missionary Work, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, or Similar Philanthropic Work
If you are domiciled in Michigan at the time of entry into active military duty, missionary work, Peace Corps, or similar service, you are presumed to retain your eligibility for resident classification as long as you are on continuous active duty or in continuous service and continuously claim Michigan as the state of legal residence for income tax purposes.  If you are a dependent child of such an individual, you are presumed to be eligible for resident classification provided: (1) you are coming to the University of Michigan directly from high school or have been continuously enrolled in college since graduating from high school, and (2) you have not claimed residency for tuition purposes elsewhere.

b.  Absence Due to Temporary Foreign Assignment
If you are a dependent student domiciled in Michigan with your parents immediately preceding an absence for a temporary foreign assignment with a parent's Michigan employer, you may retain your eligibility for resident classification provided (1) your family members hold temporary visas in the foreign country, and (2) you return directly to Michigan and remain in the state for educational purposes after leaving the foreign country.

c.  Temporary Absence of Less Than One Year
If you are independently domiciled in Michigan immediately preceding a temporary absence of less than one year, you are presumed to retain eligibility for resident classification provided that out-of-state ties are severed upon your return to Michigan.

It looks as though the policy already handles active duty military service. It seems very strange to me that the university would send someone a letter saying  "... that due to my overseas service that I may be considered an out-of-state resident." when their policy states the exact opposite.  It seems much more likely that either (a) the Univeresity made a mistake (which is still a problem, but not the same as a "war on veterans" people are making it out to be) or (b) this individual did something that resulted in a change of residency (e.g. accidentally filed taxes in a different state or filled out a form wrong) and had to fight to correct it.

chances are the university already knows the law but is ignoring because it gets theme hundreds of thousands of dollars or more from servicemen who agree to pay out of state tuition.

Nonprofits do the same thing for profit companies due, they just wear as veil of sanctimony so they cash solicit donations.

University no longer have as much interest in quality of education or helping students get one, its really about the money.these days

You can blame Uncle Sam in part for that.


Sorry for mangled English in this post, apparently I left school too soon.

/actually stayed too long...
 
2013-02-22 11:28:11 AM  

KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet


Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.
 
2013-02-22 11:28:31 AM  
But illegals get in-state tuition.  This is how liberals believe the world should work.
 
2013-02-22 11:58:29 AM  

This Looks Fun: Man leaves state for job, wants in-state tuition. What part of the story am I missing?



it's hard to tell definitively as the article was a bit sparse, but he should still be considered a resident of that state as i would imagine he would have been paying state income taxes out of his paycheck while he was in the navy. i had to for my home state and was considered a resident of my state the whole time. i voted for the representative for the district in which i resided before joining. i could vote in the statewide ballots as an absentee if i wanted to.
 
2013-02-22 12:08:04 PM  

clipperbox: This Looks Fun: Man leaves state for job, wants in-state tuition. What part of the story am I missing?


it's hard to tell definitively as the article was a bit sparse, but he should still be considered a resident of that state as i would imagine he would have been paying state income taxes out of his paycheck while he was in the navy. i had to for my home state and was considered a resident of my state the whole time. i voted for the representative for the district in which i resided before joining. i could vote in the statewide ballots as an absentee if i wanted to.


Well, if he's paying in-state taxes, I would agree that gives him the rights to in-state tuition. Since the article doesn't say either way, how are there so many strong opinions here?
 
2013-02-22 12:25:18 PM  

RminusQ: Hey, Indiana might get some ideas. They're already trying to pass a (blatantly unconstitutional) law saying that if you pay out-of-state tuition, you can't vote.


Indiana was doing that when I went to school there in the early 1990s.

One student I knew had sold their house and bought one in Indiana, was a resident of Indiana, but was still considered an out-of-state student.  As a bonus, she couldn't get her permenant mailing address changed to her house in Indiana, and the school insisted in sending all corispondence to a house she no longer owned in another state.
 
2013-02-22 12:25:41 PM  
If you snuck into the country illegally and are an illegal alien unknown to the government, as opposed to actual US Citizens ... then you get the in-state rate.

Democrat Thinking, how do it work?
 
2013-02-22 12:45:04 PM  

haterade: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.


See, the VA in Wisconsin was totally different for me.  Not only did I not qualify for in-state tuition, even though I had lived in Wisconsin since I was 4 years old,  I had to fill out pre-pre-approval, pre-approval, approval, and post-approval paperwork each semester.  I was two days late on a pre-approval my last semester and they refused to pay.

Now I just talk kids out of joining the military.  Really, if I could do it over I wouldn't, but I sure would have milked the system more when I was in.
 
2013-02-22 12:57:45 PM  

ZAZ: He appealed his case but it took about four months to get his classification changed, so he had to pay the higher tuition until then.

So he said he was a veteran and they gave him his money back.

In some contexts federal law protects veterans from being re-domiciled as a result of duty assignments. I don't know if tuition is one of them. When the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act was originally passed tuition discrimination wasn't a problem.


I'm not positive, but I don't think it's by state. Pretty sure that's Federal law. Unless you change residency to the state in which you are assigned, you remain a citizen of your state of legal residence (hence the whole absentee ballot issue that comes up for military every election--it's not just about deployed soldiers). Again, not positive and it's entirely possible that's changed, but that's how it was when I was in. I paid taxes to my SLR for years until I switched my residency to the state my duty station was in, which was a no state income tax state. Any state you pay income tax to, regardless of where you're stationed, you are a resident of. All the veteran had to do was produce his LES'--DFAS does deduct state tax: http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/paydeductions/taxwithholding.html  --or produce his state income taxes (MI has a 4.25% flat income tax) or voter registration card.

http://www.hill.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=6413

TL;DR I suspect there is far more to this story that is not in the article. They give you the information regarding state of legal residence in basic training and have for at least twenty years--at least the Army did when I was in basic.
 
2013-02-22 01:06:01 PM  

ha-ha-guy: There is no reason to swap out your Michigan residency (since military income isn't taxed).  However there might be tax incentives for your spouse or perhaps just incentives for simpler paperwork that caused a residence change.  One thing I saw in the military was a lot of people flipped their residency over to California (which also has tax breaks for active duty) because it made all the paperwork with car registration, driver's license, etc, easier.  The DMV was just down the street instead of a flight away.  I kept my residency in Michigan since my ass was on the DMZ an everything was a long flight away.

So he had to go in an appeal to the board on the grounds that while he might have a different driver's license in his pocket, he hadn't cheated the state out of any taxes.  Or perhaps he forgot to do the two state filings.  My daughter is in Cali for college but keeps her residency in Michigan and she files in both states (it breaks down to "I live here, but I earned all my income over there, so nothing is taxable here."). Perhaps someone was forgetting to drop the second return and made it look like a break in his residency.


I don't know where you got your information from, but military base pay and bonuses are taxable income.
 
2013-02-22 01:09:34 PM  

Speaker2Animals: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

You sound Brian Kilmeade stupid.


No, Kilmeade would call him stupid for making that statement. Faux anchors get apoplectic when anyone says anything negative about the troops. In this case, I agree the statement shows complete and utter ignorance... so the next time Barking or his family need protection from anything, for any reason, I propose any and all servicemen and women leave him, his family and their friends to their own devices. No assistance whatsoever. Alternately, airlift them to one of the hundreds of countries where they won't get any assistance anyway--nor will they have any rights. In five years--if he lives--see if he still thinks the military is the same as, say, the 8-5, five days a week, with nice benefits and pay--and no danger--that an AT&T manager does with no difference whatsoever.
 
2013-02-22 01:12:22 PM  

haterade: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.


Post 9-11, how nice for you. Those of us who were pre-9/11 do, in fact, pay. So take your "poor planning" and shove it. Seven years of service, 100% disabled, and I got $14,400 from the non-Post 9-11 GI bill for school. That pays about 2 years, even in a state school.

Poor planning, my army green ass, you arrogant cock.
 
2013-02-22 01:35:52 PM  

Harry_Seldon: OgreMagi: Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.

I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."

I hope my last thought is "Oh good, my private files have robust encryption."


Mine will be, "I hope no one looks at my browser history."
 
2013-02-22 01:37:26 PM  

arentol: I don't know where you got your information from, but military base pay and bonuses are taxable income.


http://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,4676,7-238-43715-153976--F,00.html

Military pay is not considered taxable income by the state of Michigan.
 
2013-02-22 01:38:22 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."

And I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish I had known when to keep my big fat mouth shut."

/for it is better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt


Wow, I'm devastated.  Your come-back was so powerful and so cruel that I may not get through my workday.  It was epic.  On the level of a middle school boys' bathroom retort.
 
2013-02-22 01:40:57 PM  

AirForceVet: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

Well, let me explain it to you in a manner you might understand. You're volunteering to potentially get your ass shot off for your country.

If you consider that just like any other job, I would like to sell you some land in Afghanistan.

/Farkin' dumbass troll.


cops get shot at.
firefighters run in to buildings that are on fire.
paramedics have to stick their hands into people that could be diseased/armed/carrying needles.

Armed Services are a hard, dangerous job, but lets not pretend that its the ONLY hard or dangerous job.

Yeah, there are some duty positions out there that have your ass on patrol in bad spots. But he honest, there are a lot of army jobs out there that are quite comfy 'in the rear with the gear'.  Meanwhile i have a buddy on the night shift in an ambulance in the south bronx who, on a daily basis, has to put hands on people who want to kill/rob/stab him as he is trying to pick them up out of the gutter.
 
2013-02-22 01:41:36 PM  
I moved to Japan for four years and when I went back to Tennessee to go to school they asked if I was an in-state student and all I said was "yep."

Gotta love the incompetence of red states.
 
2013-02-22 01:46:57 PM  

Aigoo: Speaker2Animals: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

You sound Brian Kilmeade stupid.

No, Kilmeade would call him stupid for making that statement.


No, that's not terribly different from what he's said in the past:

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/28/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-volunte er -troops-dont-deserve-new-webb-gi-bill
 
2013-02-22 01:59:24 PM  

RminusQ: Hey, Indiana might get some ideas. They're already trying to pass a (blatantly unconstitutional) law saying that if you pay out-of-state tuition, you can't vote.


Since ALEC controls  *that* state, I wouldn't be giving them any more bright ideas.  They'd just shove it down the constituency's throat like about every other state controlled by that multistate entity (save for Ohio, which managed to have the population tell the Governor fark no).
 
2013-02-22 01:59:52 PM  

LemSkroob: cops get shot at.
firefighters run in to buildings that are on fire.
paramedics have to stick their hands into people that could be diseased/armed/carrying needles.


As near as I can tell from the data I was able to gather:

72 cops died in 2012.
83 firefighters died in 2012.
21 paramedics died in 2012.

Even if you were to increase this by an order of magnitude, it's negligible.

Half of those were people having heart attacks or crashing vehicles.

Pick better examples.
 
2013-02-22 02:14:34 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


No difference?

O.K., pack your shiat up. You and your family are moving to the other side of the nation. Why? Because fark you, that's why.

You've got 3 weeks to find a place.

Go.

No, you can't quit, or we'll throw your ass in jail.

Same thing as any other civilian job right?
 
2013-02-22 02:29:09 PM  

Hagenhatesyouall: O.K., pack your shiat up. You and your family are moving to the other side of the nation. Why? Because fark you, that's why.
You've got 3 weeks to find a place.
Go.
No, you can't quit, or we'll throw your ass in jail.
Same thing as any other civilian job right?


"I'd like a job."
"Are you willing to be placed in dangerous situations?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to move around the country with 3 or fewer weeks of notice?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to sign a legally binding contract indicating that willingness?"
"Yes."
"Welcome aboard."

Call me crazy, but I imagine any civilian employee that had this conversation would have pretty extreme consequences for breach of contract.
 
2013-02-22 02:33:41 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: Too bad he wasn't an illegal alien.


Or a basketball/football player.
 
2013-02-22 02:37:42 PM  

Aigoo: haterade: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.

Post 9-11, how nice for you. Those of us who were pre-9/11 do, in fact, pay. So take your "poor planning" and shove it. Seven years of service, 100% disabled, and I got $14,400 from the non-Post 9-11 GI bill for school. That pays about 2 years, even in a state school.

Poor planning, my army green ass, you arrogant cock.


Ok ill bite, I had my pre 9/11 gi bill converted to post 9/11 and they even added 12 months. Again, it depends on the state but my state university is about $5000 for 2 semesters including tuition and fees. If you are 100% disabled I know you were getting $2700/month untaxed income even a few years ago, which only increases. It is more than a livable wage in many areas and does not preclude you from having another job. So if you are a single person with no dependents than I have a hard time seeing how you had a problem.

Again I was referring to the current benefits like mentioned in TFA. For older purposes, the military has offered college while on active duty for quite some time and you can even collect unemploment after active duty or :gasp: get a job while you go to school.
 
2013-02-22 03:14:44 PM  
And yet if he were illegal he would get instate tuition... awsome
 
2013-02-22 03:20:31 PM  

This Looks Fun: Hagenhatesyouall: O.K., pack your shiat up. You and your family are moving to the other side of the nation. Why? Because fark you, that's why.
You've got 3 weeks to find a place.
Go.
No, you can't quit, or we'll throw your ass in jail.
Same thing as any other civilian job right?

"I'd like a job."
"Are you willing to be placed in dangerous situations?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to move around the country with 3 or fewer weeks of notice?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to sign a legally binding contract indicating that willingness?"
"Yes."
"Welcome aboard."

Call me crazy, but I imagine any civilian employee that had this conversation would have pretty extreme consequences for breach of contract.


With civilian jobs, you don't give up your basic civil rights.  In the military, you do.
 
2013-02-22 03:55:14 PM  

AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.


I'm sorry.... were you at Patrick AFB?
 
2013-02-22 03:57:20 PM  
OgreMagi:With civilian jobs, you don't give up your basic civil rights.  In the military, you do.

So...

"Do you willingly surrender your basic civil rights?"
"Yes."

I must still be missing something. Your rights are not taken. You willingly sign these agreements. You GIVE THEM UP. Why are they victims?
 
2013-02-22 04:04:14 PM  

This Looks Fun: OgreMagi:With civilian jobs, you don't give up your basic civil rights.  In the military, you do.

So...

"Do you willingly surrender your basic civil rights?"
"Yes."

I must still be missing something. Your rights are not taken. You willingly sign these agreements. You GIVE THEM UP. Why are they victims?


Nobody said they are victims.  We are saying they have EARNED some farking consideration.
 
2013-02-22 04:59:33 PM  
Asinine is not strong enough.  Fark needs a "This Sucks" button for ones like this.
 
2013-02-22 05:17:56 PM  

OgreMagi: Nobody said they are victims.  We are saying they have EARNED some farking consideration.


Oh. Well, then I say anyone who does the job they agreed to do when they were hired has EARNED the exact same farking consideration.
 
2013-02-22 06:28:49 PM  
Today I learned that the easiest way to troll is to express the opinion that serving in the military doesn't make you special.

The Vietnam war has a lot to answer for (and so do the arseholes who were spitting on people)

Serving in the military does not make you a god. You've decided to make public service your life's calling and that's admirable in most cases. However the shiat people in the military have to put up with is not a badge of honor, it's horrendous and should be reported and dealt with as such, not spouted as "this makes us better than you". Personally I would rather be able to express my admiration for their public service by NOT sending the men and women in the military to war and instead make the lives of people who've dedicated theirs to public service such that they do not have to rely on WIC when they've got 2 kids and a wife.
 
2013-02-22 07:55:22 PM  

dahmers love zombie: On the enlistment paperwork was there a guarantee that he wouldn't be sent out of state?  If not, then he needs to STFU and pay up like everyone else who took an out-of-state job to make money for school.


This.

Sorry, it doesn't matter if he took a job in the military or asking if somebody wanted fries with that, if he left the state for work, he's not a resident any more.
 
2013-02-22 08:26:20 PM  

This Looks Fun: I must still be missing something. Your rights are not taken. You willingly sign these agreements. You GIVE THEM UP. Why are they victims?


Spoken by someone that knows not the concept of duress.
 
2013-02-22 08:28:49 PM  
We want you!
We want you!
We want you!
As a new recruit!
 
2013-02-22 10:45:21 PM  

feickus: If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.


We had 100% tuition assistance when I was in (circa 1983-91), but you had to buy the textbooks out of pocket. I CLEP tested my way out of at least two semesters worth of classes -- but  do check the acceptable timeframe for CLEP tests at the school you plan to attend. Mine wouldn't accept CLEPs older than 7 years. At least troopies now have the option to take classes online. When I was in, there was no internet. If you got deployed in the middle of a semester, you just got a fail/drop/incomplete that looked like crap on your school records.

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.
 
2013-02-23 11:09:50 AM  

WordyGrrl: feickus: If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.

We had 100% tuition assistance when I was in (circa 1983-91), but you had to buy the textbooks out of pocket. I CLEP tested my way out of at least two semesters worth of classes -- but  do check the acceptable timeframe for CLEP tests at the school you plan to attend. Mine wouldn't accept CLEPs older than 7 years. At least troopies now have the option to take classes online. When I was in, there was no internet. If you got deployed in the middle of a semester, you just got a fail/drop/incomplete that looked like crap on your school records.

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.


That's a rather broad statement. It depends on what your career field/MOS etc was when you were in. Some of them transfer better than others.

Anybody else notice the link is gone?
 
2013-02-23 11:30:06 AM  

Iceman_Cometh: WordyGrrl: feickus: If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.

We had 100% tuition assistance when I was in (circa 1983-91), but you had to buy the textbooks out of pocket. I CLEP tested my way out of at least two semesters worth of classes -- but  do check the acceptable timeframe for CLEP tests at the school you plan to attend. Mine wouldn't accept CLEPs older than 7 years. At least troopies now have the option to take classes online. When I was in, there was no internet. If you got deployed in the middle of a semester, you just got a fail/drop/incomplete that looked like crap on your school records.

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.

That's a rather broad statement. It depends on what your career field/MOS etc was when you were in. Some of them transfer better than others.

Anybody else notice the link is gone?


It is a broad statement, and false. The last company I worked for hired many of the hardware specialists that were retired/inactive/discharged. If you had experience in UGS, EMIDS, or TT&L sensors you could have had 0 education and been hired. Guess what defense personnel? Defense contracting needs your opinions, experience, and possible contacts.
 
2013-02-23 06:17:13 PM  
Genju: WordyGrrl:

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.

That's a rather broad statement. It depends on what your career field/MOS etc was when you were in. Some of them transfer better than others.

Anybody else notice the link is gone?

It is a broad statement, and false. The last company I worked for hired many of the hardware specialists that were retired/inactive/discharged. If you had experience in UGS, EMIDS, or TT&L sensors you could have had 0 education and been hired. Guess what defense personnel? Defense contracting needs your opinions, experience, and possible contacts.


True. I should have clarified that. But even some military jobs with direct civilian counterparts won't lead to guaranteed hire-ability. Your military experience will only count, for example,  if you worked on very specific systems (hardware/software) that defense contractors or the DoD employers are hiring for or you have certifications/degrees that are accepted by the civilian business world. Otherwise, do not assume that your experience will count for much out here.  Most civilians have no idea how the military works, and are not aware that an NCO with 20 years in pushing troops has a helluva lot more management experience than a butter bar who ditched his commission after 3 or 4 years.
 
2013-02-23 11:37:57 PM  

WordyGrrl: Most civilians have no idea how the military works, and are not aware that an NCO with 20 years in pushing troops has a helluva lot more management experience than a butter bar who ditched his commission after 3 or 4 years.


Having dealt with many such retired military turned management, they do it to a fault. They think the way they could push troops around will also apply to civilian employees, customers, and even sometimes the management above them. Plenty of facepalm moments.
 
Displayed 47 of 147 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report