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(Click On Detroit)   Oh, so you left the state for 4 years to serve in the Navy? You're an out-of-state student now. Pay up   (clickondetroit.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, University of Michigan, tuition, Michigan, students  
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9818 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 3:06 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-22 03:55:44 AM  

Enigmamf: Maybe it depends on the branch - I live very close to a Marine base, and it seems like a greatly disproportionate number of cars to what you would expect in California (a state where you must normally register the car within 14 days of moving here) carry Florida plates


That is odd.

As a Marine I do not know Anyone who has changed their residence to Florida for tax purposes.  Quite a few States have tax exclusions for military or people who spend the majority of their time outside the state.  I am from Maine, and as long as I spend less than 30 days a year in the state, I pay no income taxes.

My guess is that you live near MCAS Miramar.  The naval/Marine aviation training pipeline sends most Marines who work on/around/in aircraft through Florida.  Generally folks will buy a car when the paychecks start comming in (during training in florida), so it would make sense to see a lot of cars that have been purchased and registered in Florida at naval aviation units around the country.
 
2013-02-22 03:55:55 AM  
Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet
 
2013-02-22 04:01:01 AM  

OgreMagi: Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.

I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."


I hope my last thought is "Oh good, my private files have robust encryption."
 
2013-02-22 04:03:16 AM  

Enigmamf: Also, my theory about in-state tuition is that every public university should charge the difference between in-state tuition and out-of-state tuition to a special loan against which taxes paid are credited.


I often wonder, lot of students go to state schools in flyover states, then bail right after they graduate for places like New York and California. Not to mention emigrants to the US whose education was paid for by their country of origin who then spend their working lives in the US.

\Not a complaint
 
2013-02-22 04:10:51 AM  

brerrabbit: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

No, but there are a lot of states playing games trying to force servicemen to change their residence for tax and retirement purposes.

Connecticut, I'm looking at you.


and I'm sure voting as well
 
2013-02-22 04:14:57 AM  

No Such Agency: bunner:
Ever. Single. F*cking. Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

Hey, there's a reason the top 0.1% of America reaped 120% of the gains from the latest economic recovery (ie. the rest of the country ended up worse off).


"Recovery" means "we stopped only doubling our money every month and we're back on track, now!" at 11 Wall, 10005
 
2013-02-22 04:18:54 AM  

OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."


And I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish I had known when to keep my big fat mouth shut."

/for it is better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
 
2013-02-22 04:22:04 AM  

KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet


If you do it right, you don't. Pell covered the college costs. Government aided housing for poor people covered the roof over our heads.The GI Bill plus the WSJ route from 1 am to 5 am covered food and expenses (also WIC for the kid). The 7 am Calc classes were a biatch though.

I think the Army has a college fund that flat out pays for it, but with federal assistance and GI Bill it is pretty much the same regardless.
 
2013-02-22 04:28:13 AM  
It just occurred to me that this gentleman most likely declined the GI Bill when he enlisted in favor of an extra $20 or whatever.

sigh....
 
2013-02-22 04:45:17 AM  

AirForceVet: doyner: AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.

Link? (not homepage)

No problem, doyner.

Here's the link to the Social Security webpage in question.

And here's the quote at issue. Note that this was effective POST-9/11.

Note: In January 2002, Public Law 107-117, the Defense Appropriations Act, stopped the special extra earnings that have been credited to military service personnel. Military service in calendar year 2002 and future years no longer qualifies for these special extra earnings credits.

/As I enlisted in the late 1970s, I don't fall under this law. Alas, too many who served under harder times than I did.
//So I'm a bit annoyed about the Republicans claiming they support the military as I don't see such after the kids come home.


AirForceVet,

Thanks for posting that link, I've been trying to find it for a while now.
 
2013-02-22 04:45:50 AM  
U of M is a biatch when it comes to what qualifies you as an in-state resident.  I had a friend who spent 3 years of school here, 2 years of working while not in school - so 7 years total while he was 18-25 - , had filed income taxes for 5 years in Michigan, and according to U of M still counted as a Wisconsin resident for tuition purposes.  Even though he hadn't lived in the state for nearly 6 years, had a Michigan license for 6, Michigan bank, Michigan residence, etc...

Sucks for the veteran, but really f--king glad that they're gonna have to own up to the draconian policy.  As a Michigander, it's something I *should* support, but they take it too far.  Like an insurance company that looks for any i not dotted on your application form to throw you off the plan after you get cancer... it's a straight up money thing, even when it doesn't really seem f--kin g fair at all.

Still surprised they hit a born and raised Michigander.  Getting even *more* draconian apparently.
 
2013-02-22 04:50:42 AM  

The WindowLicker: AirForceVet: I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

This could also be the university attempting to maximize the amount of tuition money that they get out of the Post 9/11 GI bill.

Honestly I am shocked at how much public, in state tuitions have gone up in the last few years.


Man, THIS.

My Dad and I both worked our way through in state state university.  He worked more than I probably did, but I got decent pay for 20-30 hours of lab work a week my last two years.  He covered most of his tuition not covered by scholarships. There was no way, mathematically, that I could even dream of doing the same.  Even if i pulled 40+ hours / week *on top* of school.
 
2013-02-22 04:59:11 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: The WindowLicker: AirForceVet: I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

This could also be the university attempting to maximize the amount of tuition money that they get out of the Post 9/11 GI bill.

Honestly I am shocked at how much public, in state tuitions have gone up in the last few years.

Man, THIS.

My Dad and I both worked our way through in state state university.  He worked more than I probably did, but I got decent pay for 20-30 hours of lab work a week my last two years.  He covered most of his tuition not covered by scholarships. There was no way, mathematically, that I could even dream of doing the same.  Even if i pulled 40+ hours / week *on top* of school.


Universities aren't about education anymore.  Or academia.  They're about moving money around and placating the sociocultural postures of her people who supply it.  If you go full retail, they'll kiss your ass rosy pink, but good luck learning much outside of the vocational school template.  I mean, that's what education is for, isn't it?  To get a GOOD spot on the hamster wheel and make somebody else rich?  When you got people with baccalaureates who can barely navigate their native lingo in written form, you're not teaching people how to think.
 
2013-02-22 05:01:58 AM  

doyner: AirForceVet: Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.

We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?

Exactly what I was wondering.  Smells like bullshiat.


I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.
 
2013-02-22 05:09:04 AM  
ongbok: I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.

in other words, he had his cake and ate it too, due to some combination of being an overentitled snowflake who knows that if raises enough of a stink in today's climate it's political suicide to make our military 'heroes' follow the rules and some public sector employee who approved this because at the end of the day to him it was OPM.

some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.
 
2013-02-22 05:24:54 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: ongbok: I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.

in other words, he had his cake and ate it too, due to some combination of being an overentitled snowflake who knows that if raises enough of a stink in today's climate it's political suicide to make our military 'heroes' follow the rules and some public sector employee who approved this because at the end of the day to him it was OPM.

some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.


Considering that this took place in the late 90's, i don't think he was being an over entitled snowflake that knew if he raised a stink about it in today's climate it was political suicide.

All that happened with him was that they informed him because he claimed Texas residency that he would have to pay out of state tuition, he went to them and explained his situation, they gave him a stack of papers to fill out, ask him for his military paper work, once he got all of that to them he had to wait a few months before they applied the in state tuition to his bill. I'm pretty sure that is what happened also with this guy, but he just wanted to whine to the media about it.
 
2013-02-22 05:32:26 AM  
Yeesh, somebody made a mistake, it happens. I'm sorry it happened but it's cleared up now.
 
2013-02-22 05:33:05 AM  
Ha! I was in the same boat as this guy, found out that since my home of record is Texas, they actually pay for my tuition even though I have no GI Bill!
 
2013-02-22 05:39:39 AM  

doyner: AirForceVet: Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.

We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?

Exactly what I was wondering.  Smells like bullshiat.


It's complete bullshiat. I went to UM for both undergrad and grad school. Moved away in between, and came back fully prepared to pay out of state tuition. Turns out, all you have to do is show that your parents did not leave the state and you're considered in-state again. Two emails and things are back to normal AND they reimbursed my tuition. It was a gruelling two week process, let me tell ya.

/sounds like snowflake has a persecution complex
 
2013-02-22 05:58:31 AM  

NFA: In Maryland leaving the state to get a undergraduate degree then returning to get your graduate degree, some students have been deemed out of state residents.


Meanwhile, the state where you were getting your undergraduate degree did not consider you to be a resident either...you become a stateless person!  This dodge has also been used to prevent students from voting at all, either in their home states or where they are going to school.
 
2013-02-22 06:07:21 AM  
Just yesterday, the Washington Post had a story about a different soldier with the same problem in Virginia. She continued paying VA income taxes while away, but George Mason U. still wants to call her out-of-state. She went through 3 levels of internal appeals before having a court rule in her favor -- but GMU is going to appeal to the Supreme Court.

WTF is their problem? She's got a strong basis for being considered in-state. Why are they trying so hard to find reasons to deny it to her? Would it bankrupt a school with 33,000 students to let her have it? And this is a public university.

Bunch of heartless bureaucrats. Send them to Afghanistan, and see if the Taliban gives a shiat what state they're from.
 
2013-02-22 06:15:04 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.


University fees in the UK depend on whether you (a) live in England, Scotland, Wales or Norn Iron and (b) study in England, Scotland, Wales or Norn Iron. The rules are complicated and getting more so by the day. No special treatment for members of the armed forces, though.
 
2013-02-22 06:24:13 AM  
Why waste your time with people that don't want you? The fee is obviously the punishment they use against people who serve/d in the military. There are plenty of other schools run by people that are not retarded. Go find a good one!
 
2013-02-22 06:29:12 AM  
University as a cold, hard business? No way. It's all about the education and knowledge. What's the internet about, again? Freedom, something, information?
 
2013-02-22 06:35:03 AM  

Pokey.Clyde: OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."

And I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish I had known when to keep my big fat mouth shut."

/for it is better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt


Not funny or clever... -10 and bannination to the retard list.
 
2013-02-22 06:35:11 AM  
Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.
 
2013-02-22 06:53:34 AM  

AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.

As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.


In from 1975 - 1979 here, so he can also blow me.
 
2013-02-22 07:03:52 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when xury we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


In the military, especially when you first join you don't have the time, the luxury, and in many cases the proof needed to re-register as a resident of your new location.  Forcing them to give up residency of their home state woudl in effect deprive many service people of the right to vote.

Also with "any other job" you have a choice to no move.  You may have to quit, but you have that choice.  Not so in the Military.
 
2013-02-22 07:08:06 AM  

Earguy: Public Relations nightmare.  This will get fixed and quick.


Universities are all about money these days.

The past 20 years have been like a golden age with a boom in funding and cheap student loans.
They hired tons of administrators and inflated everyone's salaries.
They're so focused on bringing in money that they may not worry too much about publicity at first.
 
2013-02-22 07:09:28 AM  
70-something posts and not a single complaint about the real headline? You cannot "discriminate veterans". You can only discriminate for or against them.

Well, technically you can discriminate veterans, but that would render the headline totally nonsensical rather than merely stupid.
 
2013-02-22 07:16:48 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Hello, I just illegally crossed the border to invade your country and suck on the taxpayer teet. Oh, okay...you get instate tuition.


Said no immigrant ever
 
2013-02-22 07:18:05 AM  
After reading tfa here is what I see

he university billed him as an out-of-state student, increasing his tuition by $10,000 each year.
The policy affects between 600 and 700 students at the university.

650x$10,000 = $6500000

It takes a real piece of shiate to pull this on veterans even if the "war" is a total bullshiat lie
 
2013-02-22 07:27:10 AM  

priapic_abandon: In from 1975 - 1979 here, so he can also blow me.


Were you both marines, by any chance? Marines have a reputation for that liking sort of thing in the UK too. Did you play "soggy biscuit" often?
 
2013-02-22 08:07:08 AM  

InfrasonicTom: Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.


If a for-profit venture suffers a shortfall, it marks it on the books and hopes to make it up next quarter.

If the assets of a non-profit go negative, the non-profit disappears forever.

Not a hard and fast rule, but generally speaking there's a good damned reason why nonprofits sweat the books more than for-profits.  For one, they're directly monitored at all times by the government, and for another there's little if any factor of safety, comparatively.

Quantum Apostrophe: University as a cold, hard business? No way. It's all about the education and knowledge. What's the internet about, again? Freedom, something, information?


Well, they're not really incorporated for the purpose of making a profit.  As noted above, though, that does not in any way relieve them of the responsibility to ensure the financial stability required for the things that _are_ in the corporate charter from proceeding.
 
2013-02-22 08:14:55 AM  
Hey, Indiana might get some ideas. They're already trying to pass a (blatantly unconstitutional) law saying that if you pay out-of-state tuition, you can't vote.
 
2013-02-22 08:18:30 AM  

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


He probably did what my cousin did, which was a complete f*ck-up, and it's his fault. He checked the box stating he had been out of state for longer than X time and / or changed his permanent mailing address. I, on the other hand, was not stupid. I kept my permanent mailing address at my parent's house and absentee voted in my state.

They aren't biased against veterans, just idiots.
 
2013-02-22 08:18:47 AM  

Jim_Callahan: InfrasonicTom: Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.

If a for-profit venture suffers a shortfall, it marks it on the books and hopes to make it up next quarter.

If the assets of a non-profit go negative, the non-profit disappears forever.



Wanna show me the last time a state university went belly up?

I'm sorry you're naive enough to believe that colleges which designate themselves as non-profit are telling the truth.

Here's a secret, churches aren't really non-profit either.
 
2013-02-22 08:22:15 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


I was up in arms before I read your comment, now I am not so sure.

You almost become stateless when you join the military - should be studying at a federal university not a state one ;-)
 
2013-02-22 08:25:35 AM  

Ed Willy: jehovahs witness protection: Hello, I just illegally crossed the border to invade your country and suck on the taxpayer teet. Oh, okay...you get instate tuition.

Said no immigrant ever


Of course not. They would use some foreign moonspeak.
 
2013-02-22 08:28:16 AM  
When I finished my 4 years with USAF and returned to my home state of California, they charged me $400 for an environmental impact fee for bringing my car with me when I moved home. I bought the car in California when I was home on leave and paid the original taxes and fees in CA. Years later the state admitted it was illegal to charge the fees. They sent me a letter telling me they owed me money since it was an illegal fee.

Just a letter, they never paid me the money back. It's been 20 years. I'm starting to doubt they'll send it.
 
2013-02-22 08:29:24 AM  

powhound: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

If you do it right, you don't. Pell covered the college costs. Government aided housing for poor people covered the roof over our heads.The GI Bill plus the WSJ route from 1 am to 5 am covered food and expenses (also WIC for the kid). The 7 am Calc classes were a biatch though.

I think the Army has a college fund that flat out pays for it, but with federal assistance and GI Bill it is pretty much the same regardless.


If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.
 
2013-02-22 08:34:11 AM  
In Illinois, you have to return to the state within 90 days of your ETS.

Could be some oaf in the registrations office looked at his application and decided his last residency was outside of Michigan so he must be an out-of-stater.  Lousy out of staters coming in and taking our classes and our jewbs.  How's a Michiganer gonna get anywhere with no classes or no jewbs?
 
2013-02-22 08:41:42 AM  

priapic_abandon: AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.

As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

In from 1975 - 1979 here, so he can also blow me.


I think he was trying to say that an illegal alien would not be stupid enough to call attention to himself and his status by trying to enlist in the military and having citizenship checked. That's debatable, but not the same thing as saying that enlisting is stupid if one is not likely to be jailed and/or deported as a result.
 
2013-02-22 08:43:34 AM  

Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.


Go to Walter Reed and say that you worthless piece of cow taint.
 
2013-02-22 08:54:58 AM  
I heard the same story from U of M when I applied after returning from Iraq. I've been a resident of Michigan my entire life, including the time I spent in the military. It should be pretty clear that someone serving in the military and stationed overseas is obviously not a resident of those coutries in which they're stationed.
 
2013-02-22 08:58:47 AM  
While I realize that some states don't have State income taxes, Michigan does.  If you file state tax returns there, you're still a resident, if not you give up your right to resident tuition.  E-Z P-Z.
 
2013-02-22 09:12:02 AM  
US Law says you are a citizen of a state.  The details are vague.  If you move from one to another, you can become a citizen of another state but if you're in the militar or overseas, or both, things get odd.
There are currently 3+ congressional districts worth of US citizens who live outside the USA borders that are in the same vague category.
 
2013-02-22 09:31:45 AM  
It's not discrimination against veterans. It's a poorly thought out policy.

The guy is JUST NOW asking for a policy change. The university has not yet had a chance to fully write up a new policy and respond. It's not like he's been asking and he's desperate for a change and thus goes to the media.

Damn... everyone's a martyr anymore...
 
2013-02-22 09:35:28 AM  

Amos Quito: FARK Michigan.

We should rename her lake, out of spite.

Lake Idaho, I say!


And change the state song to "Counting to Potato" while you're at it!
 
2013-02-22 09:54:21 AM  
USF tried to charge me the out of state rate when I retired and went to enroll (30k a year versus 16k). I was told that the in-state was for NG/Resevists only, even though I grew up in Tampa, and my whole career I maintained a Florida home of record (legal and tax purposes), FL Driver's License, and voted absentee in the county. I told them to fark off, and have gone with HCC and SPC as I can get what I need cheaper.
 
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