If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Click On Detroit)   Oh, so you left the state for 4 years to serve in the Navy? You're an out-of-state student now. Pay up   (clickondetroit.com) divider line 147
    More: Asinine, University of Michigan, tuition, Michigan, students  
•       •       •

9787 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2013 at 3:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



147 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 08:06:19 PM  
He appealed his case but it took about four months to get his classification changed, so he had to pay the higher tuition until then.

So he said he was a veteran and they gave him his money back.

In some contexts federal law protects veterans from being re-domiciled as a result of duty assignments. I don't know if tuition is one of them. When the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act was originally passed tuition discrimination wasn't a problem.
 
2013-02-21 08:20:51 PM  
Too bad he wasn't an illegal alien.
 
2013-02-21 08:26:48 PM  
I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?
 
2013-02-21 08:32:34 PM  

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


No, but there are a lot of states playing games trying to force servicemen to change their residence for tax and retirement purposes.

Connecticut, I'm looking at you.
 
2013-02-21 08:40:31 PM  
Public Relations nightmare.  This will get fixed and quick.
 
2013-02-21 08:49:41 PM  
I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.
 
2013-02-21 08:53:04 PM  
Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.
 
2013-02-21 09:06:47 PM  
On the enlistment paperwork was there a guarantee that he wouldn't be sent out of state?  If not, then he needs to STFU and pay up like everyone else who took an out-of-state job to make money for school.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 09:23:05 PM  
In Maryland leaving the state to get a undergraduate degree then returning to get your graduate degree, some students have been deemed out of state residents.
 
2013-02-21 09:34:17 PM  

brerrabbit: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

No, but there are a lot of states playing games trying to force servicemen to change their residence for tax and retirement purposes.

Connecticut, I'm looking at you.


I am thinking this should be tackled at state level, Rick Snyder I am looking at you.  We sure honor vets from MI for a lot of things, but to let their service affect their education is lacking elementary understanding.  You can have a veteran license plate, but pay like an outsider, wait what?

/I will watch this, my oldest is considering this young man's path
 
2013-02-21 09:46:04 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: Too bad he wasn't an illegal alien.


So they could have deported him after his service?

/been done
 
2013-02-21 09:52:16 PM  
FARK Michigan.

We should rename her lake, out of spite.

Lake Idaho, I say!
 
2013-02-21 10:00:49 PM  

Earguy: Public Relations nightmare.  This will get fixed and quick.


I don't know... I can't picture thousands of college kids taking to the streets in protest.

Now, if they refused admission to Will Smith's kid, we'd be back in the 1960's overnight.
 
2013-02-21 10:10:24 PM  

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.
 
2013-02-21 10:33:57 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


Well, let me explain it to you in a manner you might understand. You're volunteering to potentially get your ass shot off for your country.

If you consider that just like any other job, I would like to sell you some land in Afghanistan.

/Farkin' dumbass troll.
 
2013-02-21 10:38:09 PM  

Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.


We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?
 
2013-02-21 10:41:14 PM  
Hello, I just illegally crossed the border to invade your country and suck on the taxpayer teet. Oh, okay...you get instate tuition.
 
2013-02-21 10:43:11 PM  
AirForceVet:We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?


This is the same question I have.  I've been in for almost seven years now and never changed my residency from my home state.  My taxes and voting are both still processed there, not where I live.  Last I checked, I would still get the in state rate for college.
 
2013-02-21 11:08:49 PM  

AirForceVet: Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.

We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?


Exactly what I was wondering.  Smells like bullshiat.
 
2013-02-21 11:20:07 PM  

AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.


States are incredibly strapped for money, that's why.
 
2013-02-21 11:23:57 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: Too bad he wasn't an illegal alien.


Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.
 
2013-02-21 11:30:40 PM  

GAT_00: AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.

States are incredibly strapped for money, that's why.


I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

Of course, in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.So, maybe the politicians slipped something by that most state residents didn't catch.Like SO many Americans who allegedly support their military by putting yellow ribbon magnets on their SUVs but still vote Republican.
 
2013-02-21 11:32:15 PM  

Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.


As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.
 
2013-02-21 11:32:36 PM  

Godscrack: stupid enough to enlist


Really dude?
 
2013-02-21 11:34:20 PM  

AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.


Link? (not homepage)
 
2013-02-21 11:41:36 PM  

AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.
As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

doyner: Godscrack: stupid enough to enlist
Really dude?


I'm sorry, are you guys illegal aliens?
 
2013-02-21 11:42:54 PM  

AirForceVet: Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.

We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?


Yeah, that's the only thing that would make this make sense. I guess I was fortunate enough to come from a state that wasn't quite as retarded as we are now (AZ) so, the tax benefits of "moving" wouldn't have helped me much if at all.
 
2013-02-21 11:44:47 PM  

Godscrack: AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.
As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.
doyner: Godscrack: stupid enough to enlist
Really dude?

I'm sorry, are you guys illegal aliens?


No.  But your post reads as though one has to be mentally challenge to enlist. If that was your intent it's pretty dickish.
 
2013-02-21 11:47:01 PM  

doyner: AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.

Link? (not homepage)


No problem, doyner.

Here's the link to the Social Security webpage in question.

And here's the quote at issue. Note that this was effective POST-9/11.

Note: In January 2002, Public Law 107-117, the Defense Appropriations Act, stopped the special extra earnings that have been credited to military service personnel. Military service in calendar year 2002 and future years no longer qualifies for these special extra earnings credits.

/As I enlisted in the late 1970s, I don't fall under this law. Alas, too many who served under harder times than I did.
//So I'm a bit annoyed about the Republicans claiming they support the military as I don't see such after the kids come home.
 
2013-02-21 11:48:47 PM  

Godscrack: AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.
As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.
doyner: Godscrack: stupid enough to enlist
Really dude?

I'm sorry, are you guys illegal aliens?


No. Are you an asshat?

/Think carefully before answering.
//You're already in troubled waters.
 
2013-02-21 11:49:10 PM  

AirForceVet: GAT_00: AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.

States are incredibly strapped for money, that's why.

I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

Of course, in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.So, maybe the politicians slipped something by that most state residents didn't catch.Like SO many Americans who allegedly support their military by putting yellow ribbon magnets on their SUVs but still vote Republican.


Why shouldn't they? They're screwing over every other resident in that state that isn't rich, why not people serving? They know the media won't make it a story, and most of the money will get comped through the GI bill. So why not get more money?
 
2013-02-21 11:49:42 PM  

AirForceVet: doyner: AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.

Link? (not homepage)

No problem, doyner.

Here's the link to the Social Security webpage in question.

And here's the quote at issue. Note that this was effective POST-9/11.

Note: In January 2002, Public Law 107-117, the Defense Appropriations Act, stopped the special extra earnings that have been credited to military service personnel. Military service in calendar year 2002 and future years no longer qualifies for these special extra earnings credits.

/As I enlisted in the late 1970s, I don't fall under this law. Alas, too many who served under harder times than I did.
//So I'm a bit annoyed about the Republicans claiming they support the military as I don't see such after the kids come home.


Thanks.

It's sad that the last Republican to actually "support the troops" was Richard Nixon.
 
2013-02-21 11:59:05 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


You sound Brian Kilmeade stupid.
 
2013-02-22 12:05:30 AM  

GAT_00: Why shouldn't they? They're screwing over every other resident in that state that isn't rich, why not people serving? They know the media won't make it a story, and most of the money will get comped through the GI bill. So why not get more money?


I'll have to take your word for it, man. I try to keep up with a lot of news on such. But, I'm tired, I have to work tomorrow, so I'm not up to research Michigan law to see what their laws specifically say. Otherwise, all you and I can do is to conjecture.
 
2013-02-22 01:53:26 AM  

AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.


As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.
 
2013-02-22 03:14:49 AM  

Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.


I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."
 
2013-02-22 03:22:36 AM  

dahmers love zombie: On the enlistment paperwork was there a guarantee that he wouldn't be sent out of state?  If not, then he needs to STFU and pay up like everyone else who took an out-of-state job to make money for school.


LOL STFU troll.
 
2013-02-22 03:23:16 AM  

AirForceVet: I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.


This could also be the university attempting to maximize the amount of tuition money that they get out of the Post 9/11 GI bill.

Honestly I am shocked at how much public, in state tuitions have gone up in the last few years.
 
2013-02-22 03:23:24 AM  
Dear America

Ever.  Single.  F*cking.  Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

All of it.

The church is being remodeled.  Try not to step on the whores, the lawyers or the crack pipes
 
2013-02-22 03:26:46 AM  

AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.


My assumption was (and still is - the article doesn't say otherwise) that the subject of this article changed his residency to Florida for exactly those purposes, but then started crying when he realized that he can't have his cake and eat it too (claim residency in Florida as well as in-state tuition in Michigan).
 
2013-02-22 03:31:06 AM  

Philbb: I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.


I looked up California's policy, it has the line, 'Documentation of California as the home state of record as required by the military'
 
2013-02-22 03:31:17 AM  

AirForceVet: Something about Michigan smells funny


But the trees are at least the right height .
 
2013-02-22 03:32:37 AM  

Enigmamf: AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.

My assumption was (and still is - the article doesn't say otherwise) that the subject of this article changed his residency to Florida for exactly those purposes, but then started crying when he realized that he can't have his cake and eat it too (claim residency in Florida as well as in-state tuition in Michigan).


It sounds fishy to me too.  For one thing, wherever you graduate highschool, you are automatically grandfathered into in-state tuition in that state... so I guess he didnt attend HS in michigan?

Also.. GI bill wut?
 
2013-02-22 03:35:12 AM  

Enigmamf: My assumption was (and still is - the article doesn't say otherwise) that the subject of this article changed his residency to Florida for exactly those purposes, but then started crying when he realized that he can't have his cake and eat it too (claim residency in Florida as well as in-state tuition in Michigan).


Why would you make an assumption that he changed his residency from Michigan? I spent 8 years in the Army, from Michigan by the way, and never once thought about changing my residence. I went in with a Michigan drivers license and came out with one. I don't remember ever hearing one person mention changing their state of residence for tax or any other purpose. We got some pretty sweet tax breaks anyways, there would be no reason to change your home state.
 
2013-02-22 03:37:27 AM  
Also, my theory about in-state tuition is that every public university should charge the difference between in-state tuition and out-of-state tuition to a special loan against which taxes paid are credited.

For example, the University of California costs $23,000 extra for out-of-state students. If you graduate in 4 years, you would accumulate a debt of $92,000. You get an upper-middle income job ($70,000/year, say), and pay $2500 a year in income taxes; deduct that. You're assumed to spend 25% of your income on taxable goods, so you deduct another $1400. Soon you buy a home, and start deducting property taxes as well; deduct another $3000/year. After a decade or so, you're free and clear of that debt, without having to ever pay a penny of it. The only cost is that you become a resident of that state.
 
2013-02-22 03:37:54 AM  
bunner:
Ever. Single. F*cking. Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

Hey, there's a reason the top 0.1% of America reaped 120% of the gains from the latest economic recovery (ie. the rest of the country ended up worse off).
 
2013-02-22 03:39:13 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: Enigmamf: My assumption was (and still is - the article doesn't say otherwise) that the subject of this article changed his residency to Florida for exactly those purposes, but then started crying when he realized that he can't have his cake and eat it too (claim residency in Florida as well as in-state tuition in Michigan).

Why would you make an assumption that he changed his residency from Michigan? I spent 8 years in the Army, from Michigan by the way, and never once thought about changing my residence. I went in with a Michigan drivers license and came out with one. I don't remember ever hearing one person mention changing their state of residence for tax or any other purpose. We got some pretty sweet tax breaks anyways, there would be no reason to change your home state.


Maybe it depends on the branch - I live very close to a Marine base, and it seems like a greatly disproportionate number of cars to what you would expect in California (a state where you must normally register the car within 14 days of moving here) carry Florida plates.
 
2013-02-22 03:39:54 AM  

OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."


Like all the soldiers who die thinking "I wish a doctor was here to save me"?
 
2013-02-22 03:47:30 AM  
So basically, someone in Michigan was robbed. How is this newsworthy or surprising to anyone?
 
2013-02-22 03:53:16 AM  

Enigmamf: Maybe it depends on the branch - I live very close to a Marine base, and it seems like a greatly disproportionate number of cars to what you would expect in California (a state where you must normally register the car within 14 days of moving here) carry Florida plates.


I held a Michigan license but still had to put Texas plates on my car when I was stationed there. Never had a Texas drivers license.
 
2013-02-22 03:55:44 AM  

Enigmamf: Maybe it depends on the branch - I live very close to a Marine base, and it seems like a greatly disproportionate number of cars to what you would expect in California (a state where you must normally register the car within 14 days of moving here) carry Florida plates


That is odd.

As a Marine I do not know Anyone who has changed their residence to Florida for tax purposes.  Quite a few States have tax exclusions for military or people who spend the majority of their time outside the state.  I am from Maine, and as long as I spend less than 30 days a year in the state, I pay no income taxes.

My guess is that you live near MCAS Miramar.  The naval/Marine aviation training pipeline sends most Marines who work on/around/in aircraft through Florida.  Generally folks will buy a car when the paychecks start comming in (during training in florida), so it would make sense to see a lot of cars that have been purchased and registered in Florida at naval aviation units around the country.
 
2013-02-22 03:55:55 AM  
Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet
 
2013-02-22 04:01:01 AM  

OgreMagi: Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.

I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."


I hope my last thought is "Oh good, my private files have robust encryption."
 
2013-02-22 04:03:16 AM  

Enigmamf: Also, my theory about in-state tuition is that every public university should charge the difference between in-state tuition and out-of-state tuition to a special loan against which taxes paid are credited.


I often wonder, lot of students go to state schools in flyover states, then bail right after they graduate for places like New York and California. Not to mention emigrants to the US whose education was paid for by their country of origin who then spend their working lives in the US.

\Not a complaint
 
2013-02-22 04:10:51 AM  

brerrabbit: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

No, but there are a lot of states playing games trying to force servicemen to change their residence for tax and retirement purposes.

Connecticut, I'm looking at you.


and I'm sure voting as well
 
2013-02-22 04:14:57 AM  

No Such Agency: bunner:
Ever. Single. F*cking. Thing. that involves corporations, medicine, insurance, education or investing, all of it, is now just a series of bear traps, bait and switch malarkey and fine print.

Hey, there's a reason the top 0.1% of America reaped 120% of the gains from the latest economic recovery (ie. the rest of the country ended up worse off).


"Recovery" means "we stopped only doubling our money every month and we're back on track, now!" at 11 Wall, 10005
 
2013-02-22 04:18:54 AM  

OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."


And I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish I had known when to keep my big fat mouth shut."

/for it is better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
 
2013-02-22 04:22:04 AM  

KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet


If you do it right, you don't. Pell covered the college costs. Government aided housing for poor people covered the roof over our heads.The GI Bill plus the WSJ route from 1 am to 5 am covered food and expenses (also WIC for the kid). The 7 am Calc classes were a biatch though.

I think the Army has a college fund that flat out pays for it, but with federal assistance and GI Bill it is pretty much the same regardless.
 
2013-02-22 04:28:13 AM  
It just occurred to me that this gentleman most likely declined the GI Bill when he enlisted in favor of an extra $20 or whatever.

sigh....
 
2013-02-22 04:45:17 AM  

AirForceVet: doyner: AirForceVet: in 2002, the GOP Congress and Bush II cut military members Social Security benefits, a little factoid I found today on www.ssa.gov.

Link? (not homepage)

No problem, doyner.

Here's the link to the Social Security webpage in question.

And here's the quote at issue. Note that this was effective POST-9/11.

Note: In January 2002, Public Law 107-117, the Defense Appropriations Act, stopped the special extra earnings that have been credited to military service personnel. Military service in calendar year 2002 and future years no longer qualifies for these special extra earnings credits.

/As I enlisted in the late 1970s, I don't fall under this law. Alas, too many who served under harder times than I did.
//So I'm a bit annoyed about the Republicans claiming they support the military as I don't see such after the kids come home.


AirForceVet,

Thanks for posting that link, I've been trying to find it for a while now.
 
2013-02-22 04:45:50 AM  
U of M is a biatch when it comes to what qualifies you as an in-state resident.  I had a friend who spent 3 years of school here, 2 years of working while not in school - so 7 years total while he was 18-25 - , had filed income taxes for 5 years in Michigan, and according to U of M still counted as a Wisconsin resident for tuition purposes.  Even though he hadn't lived in the state for nearly 6 years, had a Michigan license for 6, Michigan bank, Michigan residence, etc...

Sucks for the veteran, but really f--king glad that they're gonna have to own up to the draconian policy.  As a Michigander, it's something I *should* support, but they take it too far.  Like an insurance company that looks for any i not dotted on your application form to throw you off the plan after you get cancer... it's a straight up money thing, even when it doesn't really seem f--kin g fair at all.

Still surprised they hit a born and raised Michigander.  Getting even *more* draconian apparently.
 
2013-02-22 04:50:42 AM  

The WindowLicker: AirForceVet: I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

This could also be the university attempting to maximize the amount of tuition money that they get out of the Post 9/11 GI bill.

Honestly I am shocked at how much public, in state tuitions have gone up in the last few years.


Man, THIS.

My Dad and I both worked our way through in state state university.  He worked more than I probably did, but I got decent pay for 20-30 hours of lab work a week my last two years.  He covered most of his tuition not covered by scholarships. There was no way, mathematically, that I could even dream of doing the same.  Even if i pulled 40+ hours / week *on top* of school.
 
2013-02-22 04:59:11 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: The WindowLicker: AirForceVet: I'm not too sure. I'm not going to research Michigan law concerning military service and state residency. But, I am curious if we're not seeing the whole back story.

Florida's cool about maintaining one's residency while on active duty. I'm not certain Michigan is SO tight for money, it would screw over its own state residents in the military during wartime (Iraq's done but Afghanistan is still ongoing). Politically, it's not smart.

This could also be the university attempting to maximize the amount of tuition money that they get out of the Post 9/11 GI bill.

Honestly I am shocked at how much public, in state tuitions have gone up in the last few years.

Man, THIS.

My Dad and I both worked our way through in state state university.  He worked more than I probably did, but I got decent pay for 20-30 hours of lab work a week my last two years.  He covered most of his tuition not covered by scholarships. There was no way, mathematically, that I could even dream of doing the same.  Even if i pulled 40+ hours / week *on top* of school.


Universities aren't about education anymore.  Or academia.  They're about moving money around and placating the sociocultural postures of her people who supply it.  If you go full retail, they'll kiss your ass rosy pink, but good luck learning much outside of the vocational school template.  I mean, that's what education is for, isn't it?  To get a GOOD spot on the hamster wheel and make somebody else rich?  When you got people with baccalaureates who can barely navigate their native lingo in written form, you're not teaching people how to think.
 
2013-02-22 05:01:58 AM  

doyner: AirForceVet: Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.

We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?

Exactly what I was wondering.  Smells like bullshiat.


I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.
 
2013-02-22 05:09:04 AM  
ongbok: I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.

in other words, he had his cake and ate it too, due to some combination of being an overentitled snowflake who knows that if raises enough of a stink in today's climate it's political suicide to make our military 'heroes' follow the rules and some public sector employee who approved this because at the end of the day to him it was OPM.

some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.
 
2013-02-22 05:24:54 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: ongbok: I had a friend that did this when he was stationed in Texas. When he got out and came back to Illinois he had to jump through hoops to get in state tuition at UIC.

in other words, he had his cake and ate it too, due to some combination of being an overentitled snowflake who knows that if raises enough of a stink in today's climate it's political suicide to make our military 'heroes' follow the rules and some public sector employee who approved this because at the end of the day to him it was OPM.

some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.


Considering that this took place in the late 90's, i don't think he was being an over entitled snowflake that knew if he raised a stink about it in today's climate it was political suicide.

All that happened with him was that they informed him because he claimed Texas residency that he would have to pay out of state tuition, he went to them and explained his situation, they gave him a stack of papers to fill out, ask him for his military paper work, once he got all of that to them he had to wait a few months before they applied the in state tuition to his bill. I'm pretty sure that is what happened also with this guy, but he just wanted to whine to the media about it.
 
2013-02-22 05:32:26 AM  
Yeesh, somebody made a mistake, it happens. I'm sorry it happened but it's cleared up now.
 
2013-02-22 05:33:05 AM  
Ha! I was in the same boat as this guy, found out that since my home of record is Texas, they actually pay for my tuition even though I have no GI Bill!
 
2013-02-22 05:39:39 AM  

doyner: AirForceVet: Philbb: Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?

I was a legal resident of Arizona throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 30 years?

I really would like to know. I have a son and a son-in-law in the service now and I'd like to know if I've given them bad advice. My googleing isn't finding anything that would indicate it had. Unless the service member did something that would change his legal residency.

We may not have the complete story here. The dude was in the Navy for 4 years. But did he ever change his state of residence?

Many personnel did change their state residency upon permanent assignment to some state that had more favorable tax laws, like Florida and Texas which have no state income tax. This dude may have changed such for this or other reasons, so now he may be feeling the effects of his previous decision.

/So, what's the REST of the story?

Exactly what I was wondering.  Smells like bullshiat.


It's complete bullshiat. I went to UM for both undergrad and grad school. Moved away in between, and came back fully prepared to pay out of state tuition. Turns out, all you have to do is show that your parents did not leave the state and you're considered in-state again. Two emails and things are back to normal AND they reimbursed my tuition. It was a gruelling two week process, let me tell ya.

/sounds like snowflake has a persecution complex
 
2013-02-22 05:58:31 AM  

NFA: In Maryland leaving the state to get a undergraduate degree then returning to get your graduate degree, some students have been deemed out of state residents.


Meanwhile, the state where you were getting your undergraduate degree did not consider you to be a resident either...you become a stateless person!  This dodge has also been used to prevent students from voting at all, either in their home states or where they are going to school.
 
2013-02-22 06:07:21 AM  
Just yesterday, the Washington Post had a story about a different soldier with the same problem in Virginia. She continued paying VA income taxes while away, but George Mason U. still wants to call her out-of-state. She went through 3 levels of internal appeals before having a court rule in her favor -- but GMU is going to appeal to the Supreme Court.

WTF is their problem? She's got a strong basis for being considered in-state. Why are they trying so hard to find reasons to deny it to her? Would it bankrupt a school with 33,000 students to let her have it? And this is a public university.

Bunch of heartless bureaucrats. Send them to Afghanistan, and see if the Taliban gives a shiat what state they're from.
 
2013-02-22 06:15:04 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: some days I really like this supposed "nanny state" in the UK, where if you'd try this, they'd laugh at you and then fine you (rightly so) for wasting their time and/or trying to scam them.


University fees in the UK depend on whether you (a) live in England, Scotland, Wales or Norn Iron and (b) study in England, Scotland, Wales or Norn Iron. The rules are complicated and getting more so by the day. No special treatment for members of the armed forces, though.
 
2013-02-22 06:24:13 AM  
Why waste your time with people that don't want you? The fee is obviously the punishment they use against people who serve/d in the military. There are plenty of other schools run by people that are not retarded. Go find a good one!
 
2013-02-22 06:29:12 AM  
University as a cold, hard business? No way. It's all about the education and knowledge. What's the internet about, again? Freedom, something, information?
 
2013-02-22 06:35:03 AM  

Pokey.Clyde: OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."

And I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish I had known when to keep my big fat mouth shut."

/for it is better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt


Not funny or clever... -10 and bannination to the retard list.
 
2013-02-22 06:35:11 AM  
Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.
 
2013-02-22 06:53:34 AM  

AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.

As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.


In from 1975 - 1979 here, so he can also blow me.
 
2013-02-22 07:03:52 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when xury we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


In the military, especially when you first join you don't have the time, the luxury, and in many cases the proof needed to re-register as a resident of your new location.  Forcing them to give up residency of their home state woudl in effect deprive many service people of the right to vote.

Also with "any other job" you have a choice to no move.  You may have to quit, but you have that choice.  Not so in the Military.
 
2013-02-22 07:08:06 AM  

Earguy: Public Relations nightmare.  This will get fixed and quick.


Universities are all about money these days.

The past 20 years have been like a golden age with a boom in funding and cheap student loans.
They hired tons of administrators and inflated everyone's salaries.
They're so focused on bringing in money that they may not worry too much about publicity at first.
 
2013-02-22 07:09:28 AM  
70-something posts and not a single complaint about the real headline? You cannot "discriminate veterans". You can only discriminate for or against them.

Well, technically you can discriminate veterans, but that would render the headline totally nonsensical rather than merely stupid.
 
2013-02-22 07:16:48 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Hello, I just illegally crossed the border to invade your country and suck on the taxpayer teet. Oh, okay...you get instate tuition.


Said no immigrant ever
 
2013-02-22 07:18:05 AM  
After reading tfa here is what I see

he university billed him as an out-of-state student, increasing his tuition by $10,000 each year.
The policy affects between 600 and 700 students at the university.

650x$10,000 = $6500000

It takes a real piece of shiate to pull this on veterans even if the "war" is a total bullshiat lie
 
2013-02-22 07:27:10 AM  

priapic_abandon: In from 1975 - 1979 here, so he can also blow me.


Were you both marines, by any chance? Marines have a reputation for that liking sort of thing in the UK too. Did you play "soggy biscuit" often?
 
2013-02-22 08:07:08 AM  

InfrasonicTom: Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.


If a for-profit venture suffers a shortfall, it marks it on the books and hopes to make it up next quarter.

If the assets of a non-profit go negative, the non-profit disappears forever.

Not a hard and fast rule, but generally speaking there's a good damned reason why nonprofits sweat the books more than for-profits.  For one, they're directly monitored at all times by the government, and for another there's little if any factor of safety, comparatively.

Quantum Apostrophe: University as a cold, hard business? No way. It's all about the education and knowledge. What's the internet about, again? Freedom, something, information?


Well, they're not really incorporated for the purpose of making a profit.  As noted above, though, that does not in any way relieve them of the responsibility to ensure the financial stability required for the things that _are_ in the corporate charter from proceeding.
 
2013-02-22 08:14:55 AM  
Hey, Indiana might get some ideas. They're already trying to pass a (blatantly unconstitutional) law saying that if you pay out-of-state tuition, you can't vote.
 
2013-02-22 08:18:30 AM  

Lord Jubjub: I was a legal resident of Kansas throughout my army tenure.  Have there been legal changes in the last 20 years?


He probably did what my cousin did, which was a complete f*ck-up, and it's his fault. He checked the box stating he had been out of state for longer than X time and / or changed his permanent mailing address. I, on the other hand, was not stupid. I kept my permanent mailing address at my parent's house and absentee voted in my state.

They aren't biased against veterans, just idiots.
 
2013-02-22 08:18:47 AM  

Jim_Callahan: InfrasonicTom: Odd how all these "not for profits" get so picky about ways to bring in more revenue.

If a for-profit venture suffers a shortfall, it marks it on the books and hopes to make it up next quarter.

If the assets of a non-profit go negative, the non-profit disappears forever.



Wanna show me the last time a state university went belly up?

I'm sorry you're naive enough to believe that colleges which designate themselves as non-profit are telling the truth.

Here's a secret, churches aren't really non-profit either.
 
2013-02-22 08:22:15 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


I was up in arms before I read your comment, now I am not so sure.

You almost become stateless when you join the military - should be studying at a federal university not a state one ;-)
 
2013-02-22 08:25:35 AM  

Ed Willy: jehovahs witness protection: Hello, I just illegally crossed the border to invade your country and suck on the taxpayer teet. Oh, okay...you get instate tuition.

Said no immigrant ever


Of course not. They would use some foreign moonspeak.
 
2013-02-22 08:28:16 AM  
When I finished my 4 years with USAF and returned to my home state of California, they charged me $400 for an environmental impact fee for bringing my car with me when I moved home. I bought the car in California when I was home on leave and paid the original taxes and fees in CA. Years later the state admitted it was illegal to charge the fees. They sent me a letter telling me they owed me money since it was an illegal fee.

Just a letter, they never paid me the money back. It's been 20 years. I'm starting to doubt they'll send it.
 
2013-02-22 08:29:24 AM  

powhound: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

If you do it right, you don't. Pell covered the college costs. Government aided housing for poor people covered the roof over our heads.The GI Bill plus the WSJ route from 1 am to 5 am covered food and expenses (also WIC for the kid). The 7 am Calc classes were a biatch though.

I think the Army has a college fund that flat out pays for it, but with federal assistance and GI Bill it is pretty much the same regardless.


If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.
 
2013-02-22 08:34:11 AM  
In Illinois, you have to return to the state within 90 days of your ETS.

Could be some oaf in the registrations office looked at his application and decided his last residency was outside of Michigan so he must be an out-of-stater.  Lousy out of staters coming in and taking our classes and our jewbs.  How's a Michiganer gonna get anywhere with no classes or no jewbs?
 
2013-02-22 08:41:42 AM  

priapic_abandon: AirForceVet: Godscrack: Yeah, then he wouldn't be stupid enough to enlist to begin with.

As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

In from 1975 - 1979 here, so he can also blow me.


I think he was trying to say that an illegal alien would not be stupid enough to call attention to himself and his status by trying to enlist in the military and having citizenship checked. That's debatable, but not the same thing as saying that enlisting is stupid if one is not likely to be jailed and/or deported as a result.
 
2013-02-22 08:43:34 AM  

Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.


Go to Walter Reed and say that you worthless piece of cow taint.
 
2013-02-22 08:54:58 AM  
I heard the same story from U of M when I applied after returning from Iraq. I've been a resident of Michigan my entire life, including the time I spent in the military. It should be pretty clear that someone serving in the military and stationed overseas is obviously not a resident of those coutries in which they're stationed.
 
2013-02-22 08:58:47 AM  
While I realize that some states don't have State income taxes, Michigan does.  If you file state tax returns there, you're still a resident, if not you give up your right to resident tuition.  E-Z P-Z.
 
2013-02-22 09:12:02 AM  
US Law says you are a citizen of a state.  The details are vague.  If you move from one to another, you can become a citizen of another state but if you're in the militar or overseas, or both, things get odd.
There are currently 3+ congressional districts worth of US citizens who live outside the USA borders that are in the same vague category.
 
2013-02-22 09:31:45 AM  
It's not discrimination against veterans. It's a poorly thought out policy.

The guy is JUST NOW asking for a policy change. The university has not yet had a chance to fully write up a new policy and respond. It's not like he's been asking and he's desperate for a change and thus goes to the media.

Damn... everyone's a martyr anymore...
 
2013-02-22 09:35:28 AM  

Amos Quito: FARK Michigan.

We should rename her lake, out of spite.

Lake Idaho, I say!


And change the state song to "Counting to Potato" while you're at it!
 
2013-02-22 09:54:21 AM  
USF tried to charge me the out of state rate when I retired and went to enroll (30k a year versus 16k). I was told that the in-state was for NG/Resevists only, even though I grew up in Tampa, and my whole career I maintained a Florida home of record (legal and tax purposes), FL Driver's License, and voted absentee in the county. I told them to fark off, and have gone with HCC and SPC as I can get what I need cheaper.
 
2013-02-22 09:57:53 AM  
I'm not exactly sure what is going on here. From the UofM site:

3.  Michigan Residents and Absences From the State
You may be able to retain your eligibility for resident classification under the conditions listed below if you are domiciled in Michigan as defined by University Residency Classification Guidelines and leave the state for certain types of activities.  However, if you have been absent from the state, you must file an Application for Resident Classification by the appropriate filing deadline to request resident classification and demonstrate your eligibility.


a.  Absence for Active Duty Military Service (U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Officers in the Public Health Service), Non-Administrative Missionary Work, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, or Similar Philanthropic Work
If you are domiciled in Michigan at the time of entry into active military duty, missionary work, Peace Corps, or similar service, you are presumed to retain your eligibility for resident classification as long as you are on continuous active duty or in continuous service and continuously claim Michigan as the state of legal residence for income tax purposes.  If you are a dependent child of such an individual, you are presumed to be eligible for resident classification provided: (1) you are coming to the University of Michigan directly from high school or have been continuously enrolled in college since graduating from high school, and (2) you have not claimed residency for tuition purposes elsewhere.


b.  Absence Due to Temporary Foreign Assignment
If you are a dependent student domiciled in Michigan with your parents immediately preceding an absence for a temporary foreign assignment with a parent's Michigan employer, you may retain your eligibility for resident classification provided (1) your family members hold temporary visas in the foreign country, and (2) you return directly to Michigan and remain in the state for educational purposes after leaving the foreign country.

c.  Temporary Absence of Less Than One Year
If you are independently domiciled in Michigan immediately preceding a temporary absence of less than one year, you are presumed to retain eligibility for resident classification provided that out-of-state ties are severed upon your return to Michigan.


It looks as though the policy already handles active duty military service. It seems very strange to me that the university would send someone a letter saying  "... that due to my overseas service that I may be considered an out-of-state resident." when their policy states the exact opposite.  It seems much more likely that either (a) the Univeresity made a mistake (which is still a problem, but not the same as a "war on veterans" people are making it out to be) or (b) this individual did something that resulted in a change of residency (e.g. accidentally filed taxes in a different state or filled out a form wrong) and had to fight to correct it.
 
2013-02-22 09:58:29 AM  
 
2013-02-22 10:02:31 AM  

Dheiner: While I realize that some states don't have State income taxes, Michigan does.  If you file state tax returns there, you're still a resident, if not you give up your right to resident tuition.  E-Z P-Z.


You get the option to maintain your residency. I decided to keep Michigan residence throughout all the years I was in the military. Almost all of those years were spent overseas. I still filed my taxes with the state of Michigan each year, it just happens that Michigan doesn't tax military income.
 
2013-02-22 10:04:24 AM  
Unless he changed his original state while in the military Uof M screwed up. Federal Law -The Servicemembers Civil Relief Act  (SCRA) (originally the Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act passed in 1940) allows for SVM to maintain their state. There are many other rights under this law, and they are frequently violated. For example, many interest rates are capped at 6% when  entering active duty.

I work with the military and we're regularly advising SVM what to do when their rights have been violated. One sailor tried to get his car loan interet rate lowered to 6%. The car loan company claimed that their county (Not even their state) had a local law that overrode the SCRA. We sent the kid to base legal and they helped him.

If you know anyone in the military or a vet who feels they had their SCRA rights violated, have them contact legal.
 
2013-02-22 10:56:29 AM  
Man leaves state for job, wants in-state tuition. What part of the story am I missing?
 
2013-02-22 11:09:50 AM  
There is no reason to swap out your Michigan residency (since military income isn't taxed).  However there might be tax incentives for your spouse or perhaps just incentives for simpler paperwork that caused a residence change.  One thing I saw in the military was a lot of people flipped their residency over to California (which also has tax breaks for active duty) because it made all the paperwork with car registration, driver's license, etc, easier.  The DMV was just down the street instead of a flight away.  I kept my residency in Michigan since my ass was on the DMZ an everything was a long flight away.

So he had to go in an appeal to the board on the grounds that while he might have a different driver's license in his pocket, he hadn't cheated the state out of any taxes.  Or perhaps he forgot to do the two state filings.  My daughter is in Cali for college but keeps her residency in Michigan and she files in both states (it breaks down to "I live here, but I earned all my income over there, so nothing is taxable here."). Perhaps someone was forgetting to drop the second return and made it look like a break in his residency.
 
2013-02-22 11:17:26 AM  

sterben: I'm not exactly sure what is going on here. From the UofM site:

3.  Michigan Residents and Absences From the State
You may be able to retain your eligibility for resident classification under the conditions listed below if you are domiciled in Michigan as defined by University Residency Classification Guidelines and leave the state for certain types of activities.  However, if you have been absent from the state, you must file an Application for Resident Classification by the appropriate filing deadline to request resident classification and demonstrate your eligibility.

a.  Absence for Active Duty Military Service (U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Officers in the Public Health Service), Non-Administrative Missionary Work, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, or Similar Philanthropic Work
If you are domiciled in Michigan at the time of entry into active military duty, missionary work, Peace Corps, or similar service, you are presumed to retain your eligibility for resident classification as long as you are on continuous active duty or in continuous service and continuously claim Michigan as the state of legal residence for income tax purposes.  If you are a dependent child of such an individual, you are presumed to be eligible for resident classification provided: (1) you are coming to the University of Michigan directly from high school or have been continuously enrolled in college since graduating from high school, and (2) you have not claimed residency for tuition purposes elsewhere.

b.  Absence Due to Temporary Foreign Assignment
If you are a dependent student domiciled in Michigan with your parents immediately preceding an absence for a temporary foreign assignment with a parent's Michigan employer, you may retain your eligibility for resident classification provided (1) your family members hold temporary visas in the foreign country, and (2) you return directly to Michigan and remain in the state for educational purposes after leaving the foreign country.

c.  Temporary Absence of Less Than One Year
If you are independently domiciled in Michigan immediately preceding a temporary absence of less than one year, you are presumed to retain eligibility for resident classification provided that out-of-state ties are severed upon your return to Michigan.

It looks as though the policy already handles active duty military service. It seems very strange to me that the university would send someone a letter saying  "... that due to my overseas service that I may be considered an out-of-state resident." when their policy states the exact opposite.  It seems much more likely that either (a) the Univeresity made a mistake (which is still a problem, but not the same as a "war on veterans" people are making it out to be) or (b) this individual did something that resulted in a change of residency (e.g. accidentally filed taxes in a different state or filled out a form wrong) and had to fight to correct it.


chances are the university already knows the law but is ignoring because it gets theme hundreds of thousands of dollars or more from servicemen who agree to pay out of state tuition.

Nonprofits do the same thing for profit companies due, they just wear as veil of sanctimony so they cash solicit donations.

University no longer have as much interest in quality of education or helping students get one, its really about the money.these days

You can blame Uncle Sam in part for that.
 
2013-02-22 11:19:10 AM  

Animatronik: sterben: I'm not exactly sure what is going on here. From the UofM site:

3.  Michigan Residents and Absences From the State
You may be able to retain your eligibility for resident classification under the conditions listed below if you are domiciled in Michigan as defined by University Residency Classification Guidelines and leave the state for certain types of activities.  However, if you have been absent from the state, you must file an Application for Resident Classification by the appropriate filing deadline to request resident classification and demonstrate your eligibility.

a.  Absence for Active Duty Military Service (U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Officers in the Public Health Service), Non-Administrative Missionary Work, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, or Similar Philanthropic Work
If you are domiciled in Michigan at the time of entry into active military duty, missionary work, Peace Corps, or similar service, you are presumed to retain your eligibility for resident classification as long as you are on continuous active duty or in continuous service and continuously claim Michigan as the state of legal residence for income tax purposes.  If you are a dependent child of such an individual, you are presumed to be eligible for resident classification provided: (1) you are coming to the University of Michigan directly from high school or have been continuously enrolled in college since graduating from high school, and (2) you have not claimed residency for tuition purposes elsewhere.

b.  Absence Due to Temporary Foreign Assignment
If you are a dependent student domiciled in Michigan with your parents immediately preceding an absence for a temporary foreign assignment with a parent's Michigan employer, you may retain your eligibility for resident classification provided (1) your family members hold temporary visas in the foreign country, and (2) you return directly to Michigan and remain in the state for educational purposes after leaving the foreign country.

c.  Temporary Absence of Less Than One Year
If you are independently domiciled in Michigan immediately preceding a temporary absence of less than one year, you are presumed to retain eligibility for resident classification provided that out-of-state ties are severed upon your return to Michigan.

It looks as though the policy already handles active duty military service. It seems very strange to me that the university would send someone a letter saying  "... that due to my overseas service that I may be considered an out-of-state resident." when their policy states the exact opposite.  It seems much more likely that either (a) the Univeresity made a mistake (which is still a problem, but not the same as a "war on veterans" people are making it out to be) or (b) this individual did something that resulted in a change of residency (e.g. accidentally filed taxes in a different state or filled out a form wrong) and had to fight to correct it.

chances are the university already knows the law but is ignoring because it gets theme hundreds of thousands of dollars or more from servicemen who agree to pay out of state tuition.

Nonprofits do the same thing for profit companies due, they just wear as veil of sanctimony so they cash solicit donations.

University no longer have as much interest in quality of education or helping students get one, its really about the money.these days

You can blame Uncle Sam in part for that.


Sorry for mangled English in this post, apparently I left school too soon.

/actually stayed too long...
 
2013-02-22 11:28:11 AM  

KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet


Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.
 
2013-02-22 11:28:31 AM  
But illegals get in-state tuition.  This is how liberals believe the world should work.
 
2013-02-22 11:58:29 AM  

This Looks Fun: Man leaves state for job, wants in-state tuition. What part of the story am I missing?



it's hard to tell definitively as the article was a bit sparse, but he should still be considered a resident of that state as i would imagine he would have been paying state income taxes out of his paycheck while he was in the navy. i had to for my home state and was considered a resident of my state the whole time. i voted for the representative for the district in which i resided before joining. i could vote in the statewide ballots as an absentee if i wanted to.
 
2013-02-22 12:08:04 PM  

clipperbox: This Looks Fun: Man leaves state for job, wants in-state tuition. What part of the story am I missing?


it's hard to tell definitively as the article was a bit sparse, but he should still be considered a resident of that state as i would imagine he would have been paying state income taxes out of his paycheck while he was in the navy. i had to for my home state and was considered a resident of my state the whole time. i voted for the representative for the district in which i resided before joining. i could vote in the statewide ballots as an absentee if i wanted to.


Well, if he's paying in-state taxes, I would agree that gives him the rights to in-state tuition. Since the article doesn't say either way, how are there so many strong opinions here?
 
2013-02-22 12:25:18 PM  

RminusQ: Hey, Indiana might get some ideas. They're already trying to pass a (blatantly unconstitutional) law saying that if you pay out-of-state tuition, you can't vote.


Indiana was doing that when I went to school there in the early 1990s.

One student I knew had sold their house and bought one in Indiana, was a resident of Indiana, but was still considered an out-of-state student.  As a bonus, she couldn't get her permenant mailing address changed to her house in Indiana, and the school insisted in sending all corispondence to a house she no longer owned in another state.
 
2013-02-22 12:25:41 PM  
If you snuck into the country illegally and are an illegal alien unknown to the government, as opposed to actual US Citizens ... then you get the in-state rate.

Democrat Thinking, how do it work?
 
2013-02-22 12:45:04 PM  

haterade: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.


See, the VA in Wisconsin was totally different for me.  Not only did I not qualify for in-state tuition, even though I had lived in Wisconsin since I was 4 years old,  I had to fill out pre-pre-approval, pre-approval, approval, and post-approval paperwork each semester.  I was two days late on a pre-approval my last semester and they refused to pay.

Now I just talk kids out of joining the military.  Really, if I could do it over I wouldn't, but I sure would have milked the system more when I was in.
 
2013-02-22 12:57:45 PM  

ZAZ: He appealed his case but it took about four months to get his classification changed, so he had to pay the higher tuition until then.

So he said he was a veteran and they gave him his money back.

In some contexts federal law protects veterans from being re-domiciled as a result of duty assignments. I don't know if tuition is one of them. When the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act was originally passed tuition discrimination wasn't a problem.


I'm not positive, but I don't think it's by state. Pretty sure that's Federal law. Unless you change residency to the state in which you are assigned, you remain a citizen of your state of legal residence (hence the whole absentee ballot issue that comes up for military every election--it's not just about deployed soldiers). Again, not positive and it's entirely possible that's changed, but that's how it was when I was in. I paid taxes to my SLR for years until I switched my residency to the state my duty station was in, which was a no state income tax state. Any state you pay income tax to, regardless of where you're stationed, you are a resident of. All the veteran had to do was produce his LES'--DFAS does deduct state tax: http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/paydeductions/taxwithholding.html  --or produce his state income taxes (MI has a 4.25% flat income tax) or voter registration card.

http://www.hill.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=6413

TL;DR I suspect there is far more to this story that is not in the article. They give you the information regarding state of legal residence in basic training and have for at least twenty years--at least the Army did when I was in basic.
 
2013-02-22 01:06:01 PM  

ha-ha-guy: There is no reason to swap out your Michigan residency (since military income isn't taxed).  However there might be tax incentives for your spouse or perhaps just incentives for simpler paperwork that caused a residence change.  One thing I saw in the military was a lot of people flipped their residency over to California (which also has tax breaks for active duty) because it made all the paperwork with car registration, driver's license, etc, easier.  The DMV was just down the street instead of a flight away.  I kept my residency in Michigan since my ass was on the DMZ an everything was a long flight away.

So he had to go in an appeal to the board on the grounds that while he might have a different driver's license in his pocket, he hadn't cheated the state out of any taxes.  Or perhaps he forgot to do the two state filings.  My daughter is in Cali for college but keeps her residency in Michigan and she files in both states (it breaks down to "I live here, but I earned all my income over there, so nothing is taxable here."). Perhaps someone was forgetting to drop the second return and made it look like a break in his residency.


I don't know where you got your information from, but military base pay and bonuses are taxable income.
 
2013-02-22 01:09:34 PM  

Speaker2Animals: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

You sound Brian Kilmeade stupid.


No, Kilmeade would call him stupid for making that statement. Faux anchors get apoplectic when anyone says anything negative about the troops. In this case, I agree the statement shows complete and utter ignorance... so the next time Barking or his family need protection from anything, for any reason, I propose any and all servicemen and women leave him, his family and their friends to their own devices. No assistance whatsoever. Alternately, airlift them to one of the hundreds of countries where they won't get any assistance anyway--nor will they have any rights. In five years--if he lives--see if he still thinks the military is the same as, say, the 8-5, five days a week, with nice benefits and pay--and no danger--that an AT&T manager does with no difference whatsoever.
 
2013-02-22 01:12:22 PM  

haterade: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.


Post 9-11, how nice for you. Those of us who were pre-9/11 do, in fact, pay. So take your "poor planning" and shove it. Seven years of service, 100% disabled, and I got $14,400 from the non-Post 9-11 GI bill for school. That pays about 2 years, even in a state school.

Poor planning, my army green ass, you arrogant cock.
 
2013-02-22 01:35:52 PM  

Harry_Seldon: OgreMagi: Pokey.Clyde: AirForceVet: As someone who enlisted when enlisting in the military wasn't cool, i.e. post-Vietnam, blow me.

As someone who doesn't think you're entitled to special treatment just because you chose to join the military, go fark yourself.

I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."

I hope my last thought is "Oh good, my private files have robust encryption."


Mine will be, "I hope no one looks at my browser history."
 
2013-02-22 01:37:26 PM  

arentol: I don't know where you got your information from, but military base pay and bonuses are taxable income.


http://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,4676,7-238-43715-153976--F,00.html

Military pay is not considered taxable income by the state of Michigan.
 
2013-02-22 01:38:22 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: OgreMagi: I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish a soldier was here to save me."

And I hope your last thought in life is, "I wish I had known when to keep my big fat mouth shut."

/for it is better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt


Wow, I'm devastated.  Your come-back was so powerful and so cruel that I may not get through my workday.  It was epic.  On the level of a middle school boys' bathroom retort.
 
2013-02-22 01:40:57 PM  

AirForceVet: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

Well, let me explain it to you in a manner you might understand. You're volunteering to potentially get your ass shot off for your country.

If you consider that just like any other job, I would like to sell you some land in Afghanistan.

/Farkin' dumbass troll.


cops get shot at.
firefighters run in to buildings that are on fire.
paramedics have to stick their hands into people that could be diseased/armed/carrying needles.

Armed Services are a hard, dangerous job, but lets not pretend that its the ONLY hard or dangerous job.

Yeah, there are some duty positions out there that have your ass on patrol in bad spots. But he honest, there are a lot of army jobs out there that are quite comfy 'in the rear with the gear'.  Meanwhile i have a buddy on the night shift in an ambulance in the south bronx who, on a daily basis, has to put hands on people who want to kill/rob/stab him as he is trying to pick them up out of the gutter.
 
2013-02-22 01:41:36 PM  
I moved to Japan for four years and when I went back to Tennessee to go to school they asked if I was an in-state student and all I said was "yep."

Gotta love the incompetence of red states.
 
2013-02-22 01:46:57 PM  

Aigoo: Speaker2Animals: BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.

You sound Brian Kilmeade stupid.

No, Kilmeade would call him stupid for making that statement.


No, that's not terribly different from what he's said in the past:

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/28/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-volunte er -troops-dont-deserve-new-webb-gi-bill
 
2013-02-22 01:59:24 PM  

RminusQ: Hey, Indiana might get some ideas. They're already trying to pass a (blatantly unconstitutional) law saying that if you pay out-of-state tuition, you can't vote.


Since ALEC controls  *that* state, I wouldn't be giving them any more bright ideas.  They'd just shove it down the constituency's throat like about every other state controlled by that multistate entity (save for Ohio, which managed to have the population tell the Governor fark no).
 
2013-02-22 01:59:52 PM  

LemSkroob: cops get shot at.
firefighters run in to buildings that are on fire.
paramedics have to stick their hands into people that could be diseased/armed/carrying needles.


As near as I can tell from the data I was able to gather:

72 cops died in 2012.
83 firefighters died in 2012.
21 paramedics died in 2012.

Even if you were to increase this by an order of magnitude, it's negligible.

Half of those were people having heart attacks or crashing vehicles.

Pick better examples.
 
2013-02-22 02:14:34 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Protecting service members in situations like this made sense when we had a draft.  But now I don't see the difference between moving away for military service and moving away for any other job.


No difference?

O.K., pack your shiat up. You and your family are moving to the other side of the nation. Why? Because fark you, that's why.

You've got 3 weeks to find a place.

Go.

No, you can't quit, or we'll throw your ass in jail.

Same thing as any other civilian job right?
 
2013-02-22 02:29:09 PM  

Hagenhatesyouall: O.K., pack your shiat up. You and your family are moving to the other side of the nation. Why? Because fark you, that's why.
You've got 3 weeks to find a place.
Go.
No, you can't quit, or we'll throw your ass in jail.
Same thing as any other civilian job right?


"I'd like a job."
"Are you willing to be placed in dangerous situations?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to move around the country with 3 or fewer weeks of notice?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to sign a legally binding contract indicating that willingness?"
"Yes."
"Welcome aboard."

Call me crazy, but I imagine any civilian employee that had this conversation would have pretty extreme consequences for breach of contract.
 
2013-02-22 02:33:41 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: Too bad he wasn't an illegal alien.


Or a basketball/football player.
 
2013-02-22 02:37:42 PM  

Aigoo: haterade: KrispyKritter: Veterans shouldn't have to pay a damn dime to go to school. You're good enough to put your balls on the line, you're good enough to be treated right if you make it home IMHO.

/ not a vet

Veterans do not have to pay a dime and in fact I made pretty good money going to school in florida on the post 9/11 gi bill. The caveat is that the best deal is usually a state school where you have residency. Before my last deployment all I did was clam my father's house in florida because I knew I wanted to go to school in a warm state. One piece of paper that I filled out got my tuition and fees paid for every semester along with a generous stipend for housing. Usually problems arise from poor planning from mlitary members.

Post 9-11, how nice for you. Those of us who were pre-9/11 do, in fact, pay. So take your "poor planning" and shove it. Seven years of service, 100% disabled, and I got $14,400 from the non-Post 9-11 GI bill for school. That pays about 2 years, even in a state school.

Poor planning, my army green ass, you arrogant cock.


Ok ill bite, I had my pre 9/11 gi bill converted to post 9/11 and they even added 12 months. Again, it depends on the state but my state university is about $5000 for 2 semesters including tuition and fees. If you are 100% disabled I know you were getting $2700/month untaxed income even a few years ago, which only increases. It is more than a livable wage in many areas and does not preclude you from having another job. So if you are a single person with no dependents than I have a hard time seeing how you had a problem.

Again I was referring to the current benefits like mentioned in TFA. For older purposes, the military has offered college while on active duty for quite some time and you can even collect unemploment after active duty or :gasp: get a job while you go to school.
 
2013-02-22 03:14:44 PM  
And yet if he were illegal he would get instate tuition... awsome
 
2013-02-22 03:20:31 PM  

This Looks Fun: Hagenhatesyouall: O.K., pack your shiat up. You and your family are moving to the other side of the nation. Why? Because fark you, that's why.
You've got 3 weeks to find a place.
Go.
No, you can't quit, or we'll throw your ass in jail.
Same thing as any other civilian job right?

"I'd like a job."
"Are you willing to be placed in dangerous situations?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to move around the country with 3 or fewer weeks of notice?"
"Yes."
"Are you willing to sign a legally binding contract indicating that willingness?"
"Yes."
"Welcome aboard."

Call me crazy, but I imagine any civilian employee that had this conversation would have pretty extreme consequences for breach of contract.


With civilian jobs, you don't give up your basic civil rights.  In the military, you do.
 
2013-02-22 03:55:14 PM  

AirForceVet: I was a Florida resident for 20+ years in the Air Force for voting and tax purposes. Something about Michigan smells funny.


I'm sorry.... were you at Patrick AFB?
 
2013-02-22 03:57:20 PM  
OgreMagi:With civilian jobs, you don't give up your basic civil rights.  In the military, you do.

So...

"Do you willingly surrender your basic civil rights?"
"Yes."

I must still be missing something. Your rights are not taken. You willingly sign these agreements. You GIVE THEM UP. Why are they victims?
 
2013-02-22 04:04:14 PM  

This Looks Fun: OgreMagi:With civilian jobs, you don't give up your basic civil rights.  In the military, you do.

So...

"Do you willingly surrender your basic civil rights?"
"Yes."

I must still be missing something. Your rights are not taken. You willingly sign these agreements. You GIVE THEM UP. Why are they victims?


Nobody said they are victims.  We are saying they have EARNED some farking consideration.
 
2013-02-22 04:59:33 PM  
Asinine is not strong enough.  Fark needs a "This Sucks" button for ones like this.
 
2013-02-22 05:17:56 PM  

OgreMagi: Nobody said they are victims.  We are saying they have EARNED some farking consideration.


Oh. Well, then I say anyone who does the job they agreed to do when they were hired has EARNED the exact same farking consideration.
 
2013-02-22 06:28:49 PM  
Today I learned that the easiest way to troll is to express the opinion that serving in the military doesn't make you special.

The Vietnam war has a lot to answer for (and so do the arseholes who were spitting on people)

Serving in the military does not make you a god. You've decided to make public service your life's calling and that's admirable in most cases. However the shiat people in the military have to put up with is not a badge of honor, it's horrendous and should be reported and dealt with as such, not spouted as "this makes us better than you". Personally I would rather be able to express my admiration for their public service by NOT sending the men and women in the military to war and instead make the lives of people who've dedicated theirs to public service such that they do not have to rely on WIC when they've got 2 kids and a wife.
 
2013-02-22 07:55:22 PM  

dahmers love zombie: On the enlistment paperwork was there a guarantee that he wouldn't be sent out of state?  If not, then he needs to STFU and pay up like everyone else who took an out-of-state job to make money for school.


This.

Sorry, it doesn't matter if he took a job in the military or asking if somebody wanted fries with that, if he left the state for work, he's not a resident any more.
 
2013-02-22 08:26:20 PM  

This Looks Fun: I must still be missing something. Your rights are not taken. You willingly sign these agreements. You GIVE THEM UP. Why are they victims?


Spoken by someone that knows not the concept of duress.
 
2013-02-22 08:28:49 PM  
We want you!
We want you!
We want you!
As a new recruit!
 
2013-02-22 10:45:21 PM  

feickus: If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.


We had 100% tuition assistance when I was in (circa 1983-91), but you had to buy the textbooks out of pocket. I CLEP tested my way out of at least two semesters worth of classes -- but  do check the acceptable timeframe for CLEP tests at the school you plan to attend. Mine wouldn't accept CLEPs older than 7 years. At least troopies now have the option to take classes online. When I was in, there was no internet. If you got deployed in the middle of a semester, you just got a fail/drop/incomplete that looked like crap on your school records.

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.
 
2013-02-23 11:09:50 AM  

WordyGrrl: feickus: If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.

We had 100% tuition assistance when I was in (circa 1983-91), but you had to buy the textbooks out of pocket. I CLEP tested my way out of at least two semesters worth of classes -- but  do check the acceptable timeframe for CLEP tests at the school you plan to attend. Mine wouldn't accept CLEPs older than 7 years. At least troopies now have the option to take classes online. When I was in, there was no internet. If you got deployed in the middle of a semester, you just got a fail/drop/incomplete that looked like crap on your school records.

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.


That's a rather broad statement. It depends on what your career field/MOS etc was when you were in. Some of them transfer better than others.

Anybody else notice the link is gone?
 
2013-02-23 11:30:06 AM  

Iceman_Cometh: WordyGrrl: feickus: If you are active duty now, you get 100% tution asistance.  You $4500 a fiscal year to go to school.  It's been that way since at least 2001, when I joined. Plus you can  CLEP quite few classes at the education office on your base for free. If you fail it the first time though and you need to take it again it will cost money.  So there are allot of ways to get your degree for free while you are in. With things going the way thery are though, I don't see the 100% T/A sticking around much longer.

We had 100% tuition assistance when I was in (circa 1983-91), but you had to buy the textbooks out of pocket. I CLEP tested my way out of at least two semesters worth of classes -- but  do check the acceptable timeframe for CLEP tests at the school you plan to attend. Mine wouldn't accept CLEPs older than 7 years. At least troopies now have the option to take classes online. When I was in, there was no internet. If you got deployed in the middle of a semester, you just got a fail/drop/incomplete that looked like crap on your school records.

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.

That's a rather broad statement. It depends on what your career field/MOS etc was when you were in. Some of them transfer better than others.

Anybody else notice the link is gone?


It is a broad statement, and false. The last company I worked for hired many of the hardware specialists that were retired/inactive/discharged. If you had experience in UGS, EMIDS, or TT&L sensors you could have had 0 education and been hired. Guess what defense personnel? Defense contracting needs your opinions, experience, and possible contacts.
 
2013-02-23 06:17:13 PM  
Genju: WordyGrrl:

My unsolicited advice to active duty folks: do NOT leave active duty until you have a bachelors degree or trade certifications that are accepted by civilians. Your military experience doesn't count for anything in the civilian world, and that includes all the management skills you acquired even if you were a high-ranking NCO.

That's a rather broad statement. It depends on what your career field/MOS etc was when you were in. Some of them transfer better than others.

Anybody else notice the link is gone?

It is a broad statement, and false. The last company I worked for hired many of the hardware specialists that were retired/inactive/discharged. If you had experience in UGS, EMIDS, or TT&L sensors you could have had 0 education and been hired. Guess what defense personnel? Defense contracting needs your opinions, experience, and possible contacts.


True. I should have clarified that. But even some military jobs with direct civilian counterparts won't lead to guaranteed hire-ability. Your military experience will only count, for example,  if you worked on very specific systems (hardware/software) that defense contractors or the DoD employers are hiring for or you have certifications/degrees that are accepted by the civilian business world. Otherwise, do not assume that your experience will count for much out here.  Most civilians have no idea how the military works, and are not aware that an NCO with 20 years in pushing troops has a helluva lot more management experience than a butter bar who ditched his commission after 3 or 4 years.
 
2013-02-23 11:37:57 PM  

WordyGrrl: Most civilians have no idea how the military works, and are not aware that an NCO with 20 years in pushing troops has a helluva lot more management experience than a butter bar who ditched his commission after 3 or 4 years.


Having dealt with many such retired military turned management, they do it to a fault. They think the way they could push troops around will also apply to civilian employees, customers, and even sometimes the management above them. Plenty of facepalm moments.
 
Displayed 147 of 147 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report