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(Huffington Post)   Old and busted: Forcing women to have unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds to get an abortion. New hotness: Forcing women to have TWO unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds to get an abortion   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 58
    More: Stupid, United States Senate committees, Senate, undue burden, abortions  
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2902 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Feb 2013 at 8:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-21 10:49:10 PM
9 votes:

killershark: gadian: killershark: don't understand this logic at all. OK, yes, two transvaginal ultrasounds is ridiculous but I'm pretty sure a transvaginal ultrasound is pretty commom to verify a pregnancy in the first trimester. So why do these Republicans keep acting like it's some gotcha to prevent abortions when most pregnant women -- even those who planned their pregnancies -- all have to undergo the same procedure? It's invasive, yes, but slathering some jelly on a woman's belly to see a six-week fetus is something that doesn't happen in real life.

That's the thing. Normally women don't start pre-natal treatment and / or get an ultrasound until 12 weeks when you can use the jelly.  Most women will never have to get a transvaginal.

What? No. Normally women begin prenatal treatment at six to eight weeks and any average obgyn is going to verify a pregnancy at that point with a transvaginal ultrasound after a positive test result from a urine sample. And in some cases, you will have more than one transvaginal ultrasound to make sure there is a heartbeat and the fetus is developing properly. If you're getting an abortion, a doctor will still need to verify there is a fetus with a transvaginal ultrasound so as not to perform an unnecessary procedure.


No, an average OB/GYN is going to first give you a urine pregnancy test and a pelvic exam. If those cannot confirm a pregnancy or if there is some question about how far along the pregnancy is, then you get a blood test and then possibly a transvaginal, particularly if an ectopic pregnancy is suspected.

I don't know why people seem to think a transvaginal is a normal and standard part of prenatal care. It is not and an OB/GYN who thinks you need one for anything else other than a valid medical reason is just trying to pad their pocketbooks.
2013-02-21 09:00:26 PM
7 votes:

Pincy: It's a good thing we have government around to tell doctors how to do their jobs.


Sometimes it feels like the entire purpose of the conservative movement is to intentionally make the government do stupid shiat in an attempt to "show" everyone else how bad the government is.
2013-02-21 09:11:31 PM
5 votes:
So that whole 'don't put government between patients and their doctors" spiel you guys had against Obamacare .... did you at least give it a decent burial after your aborted it?
2013-02-21 08:55:27 PM
5 votes:
One: screw you, Sue. Actually, that might genuinely help.

Two: I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that this crap is *not* man vs. woman bullshiat. It is regressive, authoritarian, sexually repressed, religious shiatbag vs. the-rest-of-us bullshiat. Men are not necessarily your enemies, and women not necessarily your friends.

I hate this gender-war shiat.
2013-02-21 10:34:38 PM
4 votes:

killershark: I don't understand this logic at all. OK, yes, two transvaginal ultrasounds is ridiculous but I'm pretty sure a transvaginal ultrasound is pretty commom to verify a pregnancy in the first trimester. So why do these Republicans keep acting like it's some gotcha to prevent abortions when most pregnant women -- even those who planned their pregnancies -- all have to undergo the same procedure? It's invasive, yes, but slathering some jelly on a woman's belly to see a six-week fetus is something that doesn't happen in real life.


Not common at all.

This is common:
i470.photobucket.com

This is not:
Linked in case medical diagrams are considered NSFW

I've had both done.  One was for pregnancy and one was because of a possible tumor.

The regular ultrasound doesn't hurt one bit.  The transvaginal ultrasound was extremely uncomfortable.
I'm sure it would be even worse for a woman that hasn't pushed out two kids like I have.
I could see it being very traumatic for someone who was raped.
2013-02-21 10:20:59 PM
4 votes:
"I got pregnant vaginally," she said. "Something else could come in my vagina for a medical test that wouldn't be that intrusive to me. So I find that argument a little ridiculous."

Just... Jesus. Once you've been penetrated once, any other penetrations don't matter? Let's all just pile on in there. One penis has been in there, so there is now no number of additional penises which will be considered intrusive.
2013-02-21 09:46:20 PM
4 votes:
DNRTFA, but I expected this a while back.

The first transvaginal ultrasound is really traumatic and not something someone would look forward to, but the patient might not know what they're getting into.  But!  Traumatize them with it, then tell them that before they can get that abortion, they gotta go through it AGAIN!

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
2013-02-22 01:37:11 AM
3 votes:
"I got pregnant vaginally," she said. "Something else could come in my vagina for a medical test that wouldn't be that intrusive to me. So I find that argument a little ridiculous."

Ms. Swayze, you must now hand in your woman card and vagina.  You are no longer allowed to be considered female.
2013-02-21 10:28:09 PM
3 votes:
transvaginal ultrasounds = RAPE by proxy = every bill signer/yes voter, shall be considered a RAPIST, therefore warrants should be issued for arrest.

/Just because the bible condones RAPE, doesn't mean you can rape women for all eternity you Republican motherfarkingassholesoftotalshiatdom.
2013-02-21 10:13:29 PM
3 votes:

killershark: don't understand this logic at all. OK, yes, two transvaginal ultrasounds is ridiculous but I'm pretty sure a transvaginal ultrasound is pretty commom to verify a pregnancy in the first trimester. So why do these Republicans keep acting like it's some gotcha to prevent abortions when most pregnant women -- even those who planned their pregnancies -- all have to undergo the same procedure? It's invasive, yes, but slathering some jelly on a woman's belly to see a six-week fetus is something that doesn't happen in real life.


That's the thing. Normally women don't start pre-natal treatment and / or get an ultrasound until 12 weeks when you can use the jelly.  Most women will never have to get a transvaginal.
2013-02-21 09:20:59 PM
3 votes:
How about we make them have ultrasounds constantly until they change their minds?
2013-02-21 08:56:51 PM
3 votes:

Dafatone: A doctor friend of mine seemed surprised by this whole thing, since she thought that transvaginal ultrasounds were standard operating procedure for abortions.

But she's a doctor in Ireland, which isn't exactly an abortion-happy place.  Any medical folks able to comment on this?


I'm not a medical professional, but given that a hospital in Ireland recently let a woman bleed to death rather than perform an abortion, I would imagine that the Irish medical community's familiarity with abortion procedure is somewhere around zero.
2013-02-21 08:43:39 PM
3 votes:
"I got pregnant vaginally," she said. "Something else could come in my vagina for a medical test that wouldn't be that intrusive to me. So I find that argument a little ridiculous."

So by that logic, if you're a non-virgin, you can't accuse someone of rape if the rapist had smaller junk than at least one of your boyfriends.
2013-02-21 08:29:04 PM
3 votes:
Oh, Republican small government forcing long, hard objects into women's vaginas against their will again?  Yeah, they sure love putting their small government into relationships, bedrooms, and vaginas.
2013-02-21 10:31:31 PM
2 votes:

killershark: gadian: killershark:
What? No. Normally women begin prenatal treatment at six to eight weeks and any average obgyn is going to verify a pregnancy at that point with a transvaginal ultrasound after a positive test result from a urine sample. And in some cases, you will have more than one transvaginal ultrasound to make sure there is a heartbeat and the fetus is developing properly. If you're getting an abortion, a doctor will still need to verify there is a fetus with a transvaginal ultrasound so as not to perform an unnecessary procedure.


Nah.  At least not mine or any experience of any pregnant woman I've ever met.  And, for the record, I just had a kid less than two years ago. Could be regional things though, but I doubt it.  The general consensus I've always heard is don't start pre-natal treatments until after the first trimester because of the huge risk of miscarriage.  No sense in wasting the money or getting too attached.
2013-02-21 09:31:13 PM
2 votes:
"I got pregnant vaginally," she said. "Something else could come in my vagina for a medical test that wouldn't be that intrusive to me. So I find that argument a little ridiculous."

Wow. I don't even know what to say to that.
2013-02-21 08:27:17 PM
2 votes:
The GOP really loves to lose national and statewide elections, don't they.
2013-02-22 10:01:51 AM
1 votes:

monoski: Fast Moon: I had to have a trans-vaginal ultrasound to examine an ovarian cyst.  It wasn't "painful" per se, but it was certainly very uncomfortable, mostly due to a lot of pressure in a sensitive area.  If something like that was forced on a rape victim, I'd say it would be the equivalent of, "Hey, you just got kicked in the nads, so we're going to put your balls in a vice for 10 minutes to make sure nothing's broken."

Or more simply put, it is an unnecessary medical procedure designed to make the person reconsider the choice to have an abortion. So this is like pulling out one of your teeth to show you how painful surgery is before you have that appendectomy.


Here's the thing, history has shown us that women are willing to take extreme and life-threatening measures to terminate unwanted pregnancies.  As humiliating as a forced transvaginal ultrasound may be, it's not going to deter women from seeking an abortion.  It's only purpose is slut-shaming.
2013-02-22 08:28:23 AM
1 votes:

Fast Moon: I had to have a trans-vaginal ultrasound to examine an ovarian cyst.  It wasn't "painful" per se, but it was certainly very uncomfortable, mostly due to a lot of pressure in a sensitive area.  If something like that was forced on a rape victim, I'd say it would be the equivalent of, "Hey, you just got kicked in the nads, so we're going to put your balls in a vice for 10 minutes to make sure nothing's broken."


But beyond that, if the procedure is medically necessary... it's medically necessary.

Now, sadly for Republicans, this procedure isn't necessary.  It's punitive.  I find it more than a little ironic that for all their "The government will come between you and your doctor!!!!" nonsense during the healthcare debacle that it's exactly what they're looking to do with legislation like this.  And it's not even for the good of the patient, it's to punish the woman in question for daring to have premarital sex without effective contraception or looking too fine for a rapist to resist.
2013-02-22 08:24:48 AM
1 votes:
I had to have a trans-vaginal ultrasound to examine an ovarian cyst.  It wasn't "painful" per se, but it was certainly very uncomfortable, mostly due to a lot of pressure in a sensitive area.  If something like that was forced on a rape victim, I'd say it would be the equivalent of, "Hey, you just got kicked in the nads, so we're going to put your balls in a vice for 10 minutes to make sure nothing's broken."
2013-02-22 07:58:09 AM
1 votes:

gadian: What's wrong with leaving this as a discussion between the practitioner and the patient?  Really?  Can't we just let those two sort it out?

"Hey ma'am, the most accurate method is this trans-vaginal thingy that's very painful, but there are other methods."
"Hmm...Let's talk about the other methods first."

See how easy and non-legislatey the whole thing can be?


Transvaginal ultrasounds aren't a method of abortion. The logic of proponents is literally "if these women want to murder their babies so much, they should have to look them in the eye first." Their idea of a compromise on this is not requiring the patient to watch it being performed, just that they have to undergo the procedure and be encouraged to look (what was their original idea? An "A Clockwork Orange" apparatus?) while it's being done.

The whole idea is based on this view that women who wish to terminate a pregnancy are not giving the matter significant consideration and that if they were to be shown that the fetus is developing into a baby they will refuse an abortion. I've never known anyone who considered an abortion who didn't treat it seriously and consider the ramifications before they went through with it: it's a solution searching for a problem. Instead it just causes physical discomfort, time burdens, and increased costs for procedures that are legal in this country.
2013-02-22 04:57:05 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn:
But we're not talking about pre-natal care; we're talking about pre-abortion care.  88-92% of all abortions happen during the first twelve weeks; most abortions will require a transvaginal ultrasound.


It's completely useless the entire first month. The embryo isn't even visible on a transvaginal ultrasound until the fifth or sixth week, which is just a week or so before it's visible on an abdominal ultrasound. For most abortions there's no absolutely no medical necessity.
2013-02-22 12:23:18 AM
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-02-21 11:56:32 PM
1 votes:
Every Republican who wants to subject women to this bullshiat should be forced to have a huge white dildo rammed up their asses not once, but twice. For medical purposes, natch.
2013-02-21 11:56:18 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: MurphyMurphy: Lenny_da_Hog: LIES.

1. You didn't capitalize "Bible." Your soul would have prevented any typos.

2. Lack of sesquipedalian loquaciousness. You are not a GOP politician.

Typical liberal racism.

I happen to be a potato, sir. And a God-fearing one at that. This bears with it some mental challenges none of which I expect you to be sensitive of.

Good day!

Oh, right. This is STATE-level GOP. Forgive me, my Tuber-American brother and/or sister and/or transgender.


We should make that the official nomenclature.  "Palin-American" is old and busted.
2013-02-21 11:54:42 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: Here in Utah, you have people run for the Legislature and the state liquor board on a teetotaler platform, never having consumed a drop of alcohol in their lives


Here in Colorado, people get elected to the public transportation board of directors with the stated goal of eliminating public transportation.  Ditto for public education occasionally.
2013-02-21 11:40:35 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: It's working for them.

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...

Dumbass, I'm a Democrat. I didn't say it was a good thing, but just pretending it's not working isn't going to change anything.


They've overplayed their hand. It's cost them the Senate, two races were lost in particular because of rape rape, and America was SO pissed at them they elected a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama - twice. They actually got fewer national votes for the House. They definitely have won, but in the last few years they've lost a generation of Americans.
2013-02-21 11:25:49 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: Fluorescent Testicle: That laser-like focus on jobs strikes again, I see.

Obstetrician is a job and transvaginal ultrasound wands ain't gonna make themselves. Lube, rubber glove makers, people who wash the hospital gowns that the women get to put on... lots o' jobs. Hell, we should make em get a TVUS wanding once a week for 10 years afterwards just to make sure the baby didn't come back


You want more jobs involving lube, rubber gloves, gown washers?

Then try this for a new Republican jobs initiative: gay bondage nightclubs.
2013-02-21 11:16:17 PM
1 votes:
I guess it's not too early to start losing in 2016.
2013-02-21 11:15:12 PM
1 votes:
Who are we to say how many unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds are enough?
2013-02-21 11:09:10 PM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah. There are no young families in fundamentalist churches or rural areas.

If they want to marginalize themselves and be a neutered third-party for fundies in the backwaters, I'm cool with that too.  Proceed.


It worked for Reagan, it worked for Bush I, and it worked for Bush II. It won them the Senate a few times, and it's what has the House for them now. I don't understand how you see this marketing strategy is a failure when they're holding the US Government hostage for the rich as we speak.
2013-02-21 11:05:16 PM
1 votes:

Alicious: gadian:  Nah.  At least not mine or any experience of any pregnant woman I've ever met.  And, for the record, I just had a kid less than two years ago. Could be regional things though, but I doubt it.  The general consensus I've always heard is don't start pre-natal treatments until after the first trimester because of the huge risk of miscarriage.  No sense in wasting the money or getting too attached.

Around my region, it is difficult to get into an OB/GYN. They are booked pretty solid. Most women don't have a 1st appt. until about 10-12 weeks along. I don't know about how long it takes to get an appointment with a midwife but I doubt many midwives use transvaginal ultrasounds. If they have any concerns about your health or the health of the pregnancy, they are referring you to an OB/GYN.

The only time I got an appt. scheduled less than a month out was when my primary care found an egg sized cyst on my ovary and there were cancer concerns. If you have cysts, you will get to experience a transvaginal ultrasound many times.


Strangely, it seems to be a thing decided on between the woman and her doctor. My sister has had five, and to the best of my knowledge has NEVER had a transvaginal, only the standard abdominal ultrasound. She did have an amniocentesis with her last, because of her age, and I guess they would have done a transvaginal if there had been any concerns; but my sister the doctor who handles a lot of family planning (and abortions) has never mentioned the need for anyone to have more than an abdominal. Of course, she works at a clinic where most patients don't have insurance for expensive procedures.

It seems odd to think that maybe these things are decided by doctors and the women having the babies, and not by legislators, but there you go.
2013-02-21 11:02:31 PM
1 votes:
Every GOPer who votes for this should automatically receive a trans anus ultrasound.
2013-02-21 10:59:08 PM
1 votes:
Really, all this shiat does is show you who should have been aborted about 40-50 years ago.
2013-02-21 10:56:34 PM
1 votes:
gadian:  Nah.  At least not mine or any experience of any pregnant woman I've ever met.  And, for the record, I just had a kid less than two years ago. Could be regional things though, but I doubt it.  The general consensus I've always heard is don't start pre-natal treatments until after the first trimester because of the huge risk of miscarriage.  No sense in wasting the money or getting too attached.

Around my region, it is difficult to get into an OB/GYN. They are booked pretty solid. Most women don't have a 1st appt. until about 10-12 weeks along. I don't know about how long it takes to get an appointment with a midwife but I doubt many midwives use transvaginal ultrasounds. If they have any concerns about your health or the health of the pregnancy, they are referring you to an OB/GYN.

The only time I got an appt. scheduled less than a month out was when my primary care found an egg sized cyst on my ovary and there were cancer concerns. If you have cysts, you will get to experience a transvaginal ultrasound many times.
2013-02-21 10:53:58 PM
1 votes:
This may sound like a really stupid question, but... what if the woman doesn't show up for the second ultrasound?  Are they going to put the fetus back in there or something?  I mean this is kind of a paper tiger isn't it?
2013-02-21 10:50:48 PM
1 votes:
These inhuman dickhead politicians I hate, but they're just being pandering jackasses to remain in power.

It's the hideously inhuman, thick-skulled, inbred knuckle-dragging hillbilly scum who keep voting for these politicians that I want to see sticking between the tire grooves of an 18-wheeler as I plow into the crowd of em.
2013-02-21 10:45:19 PM
1 votes:

Tymast: Why do they have a bug up their ass fighting for things Jesus said absolutely nothing about  yet are willing to destroy our country to avoid doing the things that were spoken about?


Because judging other people and pointing at them with a sneer on their faces is what they live for. They really don't understand much beyond that.
2013-02-21 10:41:58 PM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Days Since Republicans Burned Themselves With Women Voters Forever: 0

Yeah. Church ladies who drive this sort of legislation are really pissed off about... oh, wait.

Yeah.  The GOP only has trouble with church lady voters so ... oh, wait.


They don't have any problems at all pissing off liberal women, as long as it earns the church-lady loyalty. What, you think the GOP has to reach centrist voters or something? Did you fall asleep in the Eisenhower administration and just wake up?
2013-02-21 10:39:45 PM
1 votes:
This proposal is not entirely surprising and is somewhat understandable. Following criticism of suggesting that women be subjected to one transvaginal ultrasound scan prior to access to an abortion, Republican legislatures naturally assessed the likelihood that the correct response to that criticism be a requirement of two transvaginal ultrasound scans to be 50% (where zero such scans would be the alternative also with a 50% likelihood of being correct). They merely selected the incorrect of two equally probable options.
2013-02-21 10:28:43 PM
1 votes:
Days Since Republicans Burned Themselves With Women Voters Forever: 0
2013-02-21 10:14:06 PM
1 votes:
Somebody needs to Photoshop the Statue of Liberty being rape wanded. That might be the only way to get through to these sub-sentient prolapsed rectums.
2013-02-21 09:59:15 PM
1 votes:
The repubs lost the last election because they pissed off the blacks, the women, the gays and the Latinos. Their own analysis of the election indicated that and they've been talking about nothing else about how they have to reach out to these groups, among others. Today on Fark were stories about how the repubs have come up with new initiatives calculated to piss off women, Latinos and gays. All we need is a story about some teatard saying something stupid about the blacks and maybe a deliberate insult to college students and the the paranoid intolerance trifecta will be complete.
2013-02-21 09:58:56 PM
1 votes:
there something deeply wrong with these "christian" authoritarians
2013-02-21 09:51:54 PM
1 votes:
Submitters,

Please stop making me go to Huffinton Post to read summaries of articles from other sites.

Thank you.
ippolit
2013-02-21 09:49:39 PM
1 votes:
See, the Republican party is the party of job creators!  Think of all the jobs giving transvaginal ultrasounds this law's gonna create!
2013-02-21 09:44:01 PM
1 votes:
For a bunch of closeted homosexuals, republicans sure like sticking things into women's lady parts.
2013-02-21 09:34:57 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: The GOP really loves to lose national and statewide elections, don't they.


This.

You'd think they'd farking learn after trying this bullshiat what, 3-4 times now?

But I hope they continue with this crap because there's too many Republicans in office as it is.

/wtb a sane right wing party . . .
2013-02-21 09:28:54 PM
1 votes:

Githerax: Just kill the babies and get on with it.  Who needs 'em anyway.


Dingoes and Pagans, for starters.
2013-02-21 09:20:44 PM
1 votes:
Three cheers for smaller government! Long live liberty!
2013-02-21 09:02:53 PM
1 votes:
I predict no one who supports this will post here.
2013-02-21 09:00:16 PM
1 votes:
Is it in the fine print that the exams need to be six months apart?
2013-02-21 08:59:30 PM
1 votes:

Gergesa: Double penetration?


It's known in the business as "DTVUS".
2013-02-21 08:55:32 PM
1 votes:
Keep it up.  2014 is right around the corner.
2013-02-21 08:52:49 PM
1 votes:
And it continues to puzzle me why women aren't rioting in the streets over this shiat. If a senator tried to tell me I had to have a metal probed shoved up me against my wishes, I'd be throwing a few rocks.
2013-02-21 08:49:19 PM
1 votes:
So who pays for all this?
2013-02-21 08:36:51 PM
1 votes:
i361.photobucket.com
2013-02-21 08:03:19 PM
1 votes:
Rape rape.
 
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