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(Huffington Post)   Old and busted: Forcing women to have unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds to get an abortion. New hotness: Forcing women to have TWO unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds to get an abortion   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 205
    More: Stupid, United States Senate committees, Senate, undue burden, abortions  
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2902 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Feb 2013 at 8:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 10:45:19 PM

Tymast: Why do they have a bug up their ass fighting for things Jesus said absolutely nothing about  yet are willing to destroy our country to avoid doing the things that were spoken about?


Because they're Christian In Name Only.
 
2013-02-21 10:45:34 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: What, you think the GOP has to reach centrist voters or something? Did you fall asleep in the Eisenhower administration and just wake up?


I was awake during the Romney campaign, where he won 44% of the female vote, compared to Obama's 54%.

But please, keep pushing female voters away.  Proceed.
 
2013-02-21 10:49:10 PM

killershark: gadian: killershark: don't understand this logic at all. OK, yes, two transvaginal ultrasounds is ridiculous but I'm pretty sure a transvaginal ultrasound is pretty commom to verify a pregnancy in the first trimester. So why do these Republicans keep acting like it's some gotcha to prevent abortions when most pregnant women -- even those who planned their pregnancies -- all have to undergo the same procedure? It's invasive, yes, but slathering some jelly on a woman's belly to see a six-week fetus is something that doesn't happen in real life.

That's the thing. Normally women don't start pre-natal treatment and / or get an ultrasound until 12 weeks when you can use the jelly.  Most women will never have to get a transvaginal.

What? No. Normally women begin prenatal treatment at six to eight weeks and any average obgyn is going to verify a pregnancy at that point with a transvaginal ultrasound after a positive test result from a urine sample. And in some cases, you will have more than one transvaginal ultrasound to make sure there is a heartbeat and the fetus is developing properly. If you're getting an abortion, a doctor will still need to verify there is a fetus with a transvaginal ultrasound so as not to perform an unnecessary procedure.


No, an average OB/GYN is going to first give you a urine pregnancy test and a pelvic exam. If those cannot confirm a pregnancy or if there is some question about how far along the pregnancy is, then you get a blood test and then possibly a transvaginal, particularly if an ectopic pregnancy is suspected.

I don't know why people seem to think a transvaginal is a normal and standard part of prenatal care. It is not and an OB/GYN who thinks you need one for anything else other than a valid medical reason is just trying to pad their pocketbooks.
 
2013-02-21 10:50:48 PM
These inhuman dickhead politicians I hate, but they're just being pandering jackasses to remain in power.

It's the hideously inhuman, thick-skulled, inbred knuckle-dragging hillbilly scum who keep voting for these politicians that I want to see sticking between the tire grooves of an 18-wheeler as I plow into the crowd of em.
 
2013-02-21 10:51:03 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: What, you think the GOP has to reach centrist voters or something? Did you fall asleep in the Eisenhower administration and just wake up?

I was awake during the Romney campaign, where he won 44% of the female vote, compared to Obama's 54%.

But please, keep pushing female voters away.  Proceed.


But you see, if they actually put in policies to help the middle, it's not really worth being a Republican.

The idea is to convince that slender slice of fundamentalists and hicks to hate everyone enough to vote for the rich. That way, you don't need the middle. It works half the time, which is good enough to keep pumping that working class toil into the pockets of those who dream of ruling the world through capitalism.
 
2013-02-21 10:51:32 PM

Dimensio: dookdookdook: soaboutthat: I guess it pays to have a governor with national goals next year,

Welp, McDonnell just committed career suicide by proposing a 0.3% sales tax increase to pay for road repair and getting on The Norquist's bad side, so that might be over.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/20/grover-norquist-bob-mcdonne ll _n_2730173.html

Is Mr. Norquest unaware that sales tax most substantially impacts the poors?


It's better than that, the plan is touted as as way to make lower gas prices by getting rid of the gas tax and then raise the sales tax by .3% 
The problem he ran into was/is people crying that gas stations will still charge the same and gas prices have jumped by 40 cents in parts of the state in the last two weeks or so.
 
2013-02-21 10:53:58 PM
This may sound like a really stupid question, but... what if the woman doesn't show up for the second ultrasound?  Are they going to put the fetus back in there or something?  I mean this is kind of a paper tiger isn't it?
 
2013-02-21 10:54:09 PM

gadian: killershark: gadian: killershark:
What? No. Normally women begin prenatal treatment at six to eight weeks and any average obgyn is going to verify a pregnancy at that point with a transvaginal ultrasound after a positive test result from a urine sample. And in some cases, you will have more than one transvaginal ultrasound to make sure there is a heartbeat and the fetus is developing properly. If you're getting an abortion, a doctor will still need to verify there is a fetus with a transvaginal ultrasound so as not to perform an unnecessary procedure.

Nah.  At least not mine or any experience of any pregnant woman I've ever met.  And, for the record, I just had a kid less than two years ago. Could be regional things though, but I doubt it.  The general consensus I've always heard is don't start pre-natal treatments until after the first trimester because of the huge risk of miscarriage.  No sense in wasting the money or getting too attached.


Bizarre. I had my second baby within the last two years as well and with both my kids I had two transvaginal ultrasounds each and so did many of the moms I know. It must be a regional thing then. At least now all this debate makes more sense to me. It's definitely an invasive procedure for sure, but I just assumed that every woman had to go through that whether they planned to carry to term or not.
 
2013-02-21 10:56:34 PM
gadian:  Nah.  At least not mine or any experience of any pregnant woman I've ever met.  And, for the record, I just had a kid less than two years ago. Could be regional things though, but I doubt it.  The general consensus I've always heard is don't start pre-natal treatments until after the first trimester because of the huge risk of miscarriage.  No sense in wasting the money or getting too attached.

Around my region, it is difficult to get into an OB/GYN. They are booked pretty solid. Most women don't have a 1st appt. until about 10-12 weeks along. I don't know about how long it takes to get an appointment with a midwife but I doubt many midwives use transvaginal ultrasounds. If they have any concerns about your health or the health of the pregnancy, they are referring you to an OB/GYN.

The only time I got an appt. scheduled less than a month out was when my primary care found an egg sized cyst on my ovary and there were cancer concerns. If you have cysts, you will get to experience a transvaginal ultrasound many times.
 
2013-02-21 10:59:04 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: The idea is to convince that slender slice of fundamentalists and hicks to hate everyone enough to vote for the rich. That way, you don't need the middle.


Well, in terms of the public vote it's won them 1 of the last 5 presidential contests.  And that slender slice gets more slender all the time.  So I have no problem with them marrying themselves to that strategy forever.

Maybe we can bury the pathetic, shriveled corpse of their party in the same coffin as their last baby-boomer voter when he/she finally kicks off.
 
2013-02-21 10:59:08 PM
Really, all this shiat does is show you who should have been aborted about 40-50 years ago.
 
2013-02-21 10:59:56 PM

vsavatar: This may sound like a really stupid question, but... what if the woman doesn't show up for the second ultrasound?  Are they going to put the fetus back in there or something?  I mean this is kind of a paper tiger isn't it?


Also, is the cost of the transvaginal going to be included in the cost of the abortion or will the procedures have to be paid for separately?

I doubt this bill will make them free.
 
2013-02-21 11:00:57 PM
Make them take three or four. It shouldn't be made easy for them to kill their babies.
 
2013-02-21 11:02:31 PM
Every GOPer who votes for this should automatically receive a trans anus ultrasound.
 
2013-02-21 11:03:00 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Maybe we can bury the pathetic, shriveled corpse of their party in the same coffin as their last baby-boomer voter when he/she finally kicks off.


Yeah. There are no young families in fundamentalist churches or rural areas. It's all because of old people. I'll bet even the Catholics are hurting for money these days.
 
2013-02-21 11:05:12 PM

Jensaarai: Pincy: It's a good thing we have government around to tell doctors how to do their jobs.

Sometimes it feels like the entire purpose of the conservative movement is to intentionally make the government do stupid shiat in an attempt to "show" everyone else how bad the government is.


The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
-PJ O'Rourke
 
2013-02-21 11:05:16 PM

Alicious: gadian:  Nah.  At least not mine or any experience of any pregnant woman I've ever met.  And, for the record, I just had a kid less than two years ago. Could be regional things though, but I doubt it.  The general consensus I've always heard is don't start pre-natal treatments until after the first trimester because of the huge risk of miscarriage.  No sense in wasting the money or getting too attached.

Around my region, it is difficult to get into an OB/GYN. They are booked pretty solid. Most women don't have a 1st appt. until about 10-12 weeks along. I don't know about how long it takes to get an appointment with a midwife but I doubt many midwives use transvaginal ultrasounds. If they have any concerns about your health or the health of the pregnancy, they are referring you to an OB/GYN.

The only time I got an appt. scheduled less than a month out was when my primary care found an egg sized cyst on my ovary and there were cancer concerns. If you have cysts, you will get to experience a transvaginal ultrasound many times.


Strangely, it seems to be a thing decided on between the woman and her doctor. My sister has had five, and to the best of my knowledge has NEVER had a transvaginal, only the standard abdominal ultrasound. She did have an amniocentesis with her last, because of her age, and I guess they would have done a transvaginal if there had been any concerns; but my sister the doctor who handles a lot of family planning (and abortions) has never mentioned the need for anyone to have more than an abdominal. Of course, she works at a clinic where most patients don't have insurance for expensive procedures.

It seems odd to think that maybe these things are decided by doctors and the women having the babies, and not by legislators, but there you go.
 
2013-02-21 11:06:16 PM
<i>"I got pregnant vaginally," she said. "Something else could come in my vagina for a medical test that wouldn't be that intrusive to me. So I find that argument a little ridiculous."</i>

That is...officially...by MILES...the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say in this debate. That wins out over "legitimate rape," that wins out over Santorum's "broken children" assertion, that beats everything. That is so dumb that it drags down things that other people are saying. From now on, whenever I'm involved in this debate with a friend or relative, all I have to do is point to THIS.
 
2013-02-21 11:06:23 PM
The Ultrasound Technician lobby must really be invested in the GOP.

Jobs!

Yeah. Right. That's the motivation.
 
2013-02-21 11:06:34 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah. There are no young families in fundamentalist churches or rural areas.


If they want to marginalize themselves and be a neutered third-party for fundies in the backwaters, I'm cool with that too.  Proceed.
 
2013-02-21 11:06:58 PM
Davis, who regularly performs abortions at her practice in New York, said she is frustrated that legislators with no medical background are passing laws that regulate how she deals with patients.

Better get used to it sweetheart, it happens all the time. Here in Utah, you have people run for the Legislature and the state liquor board on a teetotaler platform, never having consumed a drop of alcohol in their lives, yet planning to tell people just where, when and how they can drink alcoholic beverages. Same thing with all of the anti-gun Democrats trying to define laws for guns that they can't even accurately describe.

You think it's going to be any different here, or do you just suddenly care now that you are directly affected? It's why we need some kind of competency training for elected officials, letting the 'average Joe' get elected IS The American Way, but it bites us on the ass FAR more than it helps us.
 
2013-02-21 11:09:10 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah. There are no young families in fundamentalist churches or rural areas.

If they want to marginalize themselves and be a neutered third-party for fundies in the backwaters, I'm cool with that too.  Proceed.


It worked for Reagan, it worked for Bush I, and it worked for Bush II. It won them the Senate a few times, and it's what has the House for them now. I don't understand how you see this marketing strategy is a failure when they're holding the US Government hostage for the rich as we speak.
 
2013-02-21 11:15:12 PM
Who are we to say how many unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds are enough?
 
2013-02-21 11:15:20 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: I don't understand how you see this marketing strategy is a failure when they're holding the US Government hostage for the rich as we speak.


Because they had to indulge in stomach-churningly evil gerrymandering to keep their stranglehold on the US government on behalf of the rich?  Because they lost the Presidential election?  Twice?  And only snuck Dubya in the first time on a party-line vote in the Supreme Court?  And demographics have changed since Reagan was too retarded to continue to be President but was President anyway?
 
2013-02-21 11:16:17 PM
I guess it's not too early to start losing in 2016.
 
2013-02-21 11:20:14 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Because they had to indulge in stomach-churningly evil gerrymandering to keep their stranglehold on the US government on behalf of the rich?  Because they lost the Presidential election?  Twice?


And every penny of the economic recovery has gone into the pockets of the wealthy? And the Democrats have to cater to them to get anything passed? And the GOP is in complete control of a lot of state governments and reaping the benefits there?

It's working for them. They're using the social pecking-order tendencies of stupid people to get them to vote away their own well-being, and it's working for them. How else are you going to get trailer trash to vote for Wall Street cash -- reasonable policies?
 
2013-02-21 11:25:33 PM

Snarfangel: Who are we to say how many unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds are enough?


I didn't want to let on, but I guess this is an appropriate time. I'm Indiana state Senator Travis Holdman. Maybe I can clear up some of the questions regarding this bill so you can better understand why we have proposed this measure that is of the utmost importance to our entire political party.

You ask a good question, who are we to say? See? This is why we have a bible. In such sacred matters of sanctity and sacredness, for the children, we should defer to God's judgement.

To those that oppose our proposed multiple transvaginal ultrasound plans I say this:

I hear your concerns and I want you to know I'm praying very hard for God to send me any sign... any sign at all... that this isn't what he would want us to do.

Should God deem it fit to tell me to redact this bill, I assure you I will do so.
 
2013-02-21 11:25:49 PM

skullkrusher: Fluorescent Testicle: That laser-like focus on jobs strikes again, I see.

Obstetrician is a job and transvaginal ultrasound wands ain't gonna make themselves. Lube, rubber glove makers, people who wash the hospital gowns that the women get to put on... lots o' jobs. Hell, we should make em get a TVUS wanding once a week for 10 years afterwards just to make sure the baby didn't come back


You want more jobs involving lube, rubber gloves, gown washers?

Then try this for a new Republican jobs initiative: gay bondage nightclubs.
 
2013-02-21 11:26:48 PM

freetomato: The Ultrasound Technician lobby must really be invested in the GOP.

Jobs!

Yeah. Right. That's the motivation.


the transvaginal has to be performed by a doctor I think
 
2013-02-21 11:27:28 PM

Gyrfalcon: Strangely, it seems to be a thing decided on between the woman and her doctor. My sister has had five, and to the best of my knowledge has NEVER had a transvaginal, only the standard abdominal ultrasound. She did have an amniocentesis with her last, because of her age, and I guess they would have done a transvaginal if there had been any concerns; but my sister the doctor who handles a lot of family planning (and abortions) has never mentioned the need for anyone to have more than an abdominal. Of course, she works at a clinic where most patients don't have insurance for expensive procedures.

It seems odd to think that maybe these things are decided by doctors and the women having the babies, and not by legislators, but there you go.


Yup, Heaven forbid that people get to make their own medical decisions with information from their doctor.

But what do I know?  I live in a state that is trying to pass legislation to mandate that doctors lie to their patients about abortion, both in telling them it causes cancer and withholding info from the woman if they think she may opt for an abortion.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/feb/20/opponents-supporters-aborti on -bill-square/

We already have to purchase a separate insurance policy for abortion coverage.
 
2013-02-21 11:28:35 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: It's working for them.


Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...
 
2013-02-21 11:29:39 PM

Alicious: We already have to purchase a separate insurance policy for abortion coverage.


does anyone actually do that?
 
2013-02-21 11:30:09 PM

MurphyMurphy: Snarfangel: Who are we to say how many unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds are enough?

I didn't want to let on, but I guess this is an appropriate time. I'm Indiana state Senator Travis Holdman. Maybe I can clear up some of the questions regarding this bill so you can better understand why we have proposed this measure that is of the utmost importance to our entire political party.

You ask a good question, who are we to say? See? This is why we have a bible. In such sacred matters of sanctity and sacredness, for the children, we should defer to God's judgement.

To those that oppose our proposed multiple transvaginal ultrasound plans I say this:

I hear your concerns and I want you to know I'm praying very hard for God to send me any sign... any sign at all... that this isn't what he would want us to do.

Should God deem it fit to tell me to redact this bill, I assure you I will do so.


LIES.

1. You didn't capitalize "Bible." Your soul would have prevented any typos.

2. Lack of sesquipedalian loquaciousness. You are not a GOP politician.
 
2013-02-21 11:30:57 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: It's working for them.

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...


Dumbass, I'm a Democrat. I didn't say it was a good thing, but just pretending it's not working isn't going to change anything.
 
2013-02-21 11:34:01 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: LIES.

1. You didn't capitalize "Bible." Your soul would have prevented any typos.

2. Lack of sesquipedalian loquaciousness. You are not a GOP politician.


Typical liberal racism.

I happen to be a potato, sir. And a God-fearing one at that. This bears with it some mental challenges none of which I expect you to be sensitive of.

Good day!
 
2013-02-21 11:34:42 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Maybe we can bury the pathetic, shriveled corpse of their party in the same coffin as their last baby-boomer voter when he/she finally kicks off.

Yeah. There are no young families in fundamentalist churches or rural areas. It's all because of old people. I'll bet even the Catholics are hurting for money these days.


They are.  They keep losing lawsuits.
 
2013-02-21 11:35:06 PM

Bucky Katt: Every GOPer who votes for this should automatically receive a trans anus ultrasound.


I suspect it's a great way to check for prostate cancer. Colon cancer too. Bladder cancer. Heck, maybe it should be mandatory every 3 months for men over 50.
 
2013-02-21 11:36:23 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Well, in terms of the public vote it's won them 1 of the last 5 presidential contests.  And that slender slice gets more slender all the time.  So I have no problem with them marrying themselves to that strategy forever.


If by "public vote" you mean popular vote, I think the Republicans have won only one of the last six presidential elections.  The Republicans lost the popular vote in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, and 2012, and won in 2004.
 
2013-02-21 11:37:08 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Bucky Katt: Every GOPer who votes for this should automatically receive a trans anus ultrasound.

I suspect it's a great way to check for prostate cancer. Colon cancer too. Bladder cancer. Heck, maybe it should be mandatory every 3 months for men over 50.


How else are we to know if a baby crawled up our asses in the middle of the night while we were sleeping? Now that I think about it, I demand weekly transanal ultrasounds for everyone.  Think of the children.
 
2013-02-21 11:37:10 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: It's working for them.

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...

Dumbass, I'm a Democrat. I didn't say it was a good thing, but just pretending it's not working isn't going to change anything.


Democrat or not, it appears that you

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...

/anything that scares more voters into the D-column is okay with me
//keep up with the rapey-ness, GOPers
///further to the right, and purge the nonbelievers!
 
2013-02-21 11:37:50 PM
Because this didn't violate enough rape statutes the  first time around.

I'mma just go break out the 'I am not a caterpillar' signs.
 
2013-02-21 11:39:27 PM

Mikey1969: Same thing with all of the anti-gun Democrats trying to define laws for guns that they can't even accurately describe.


Yeah, and all those anti-heroin radicals who don't even know the difference between H3 and H4.
 
2013-02-21 11:40:35 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: It's working for them.

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...

Dumbass, I'm a Democrat. I didn't say it was a good thing, but just pretending it's not working isn't going to change anything.


They've overplayed their hand. It's cost them the Senate, two races were lost in particular because of rape rape, and America was SO pissed at them they elected a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama - twice. They actually got fewer national votes for the House. They definitely have won, but in the last few years they've lost a generation of Americans.
 
2013-02-21 11:40:53 PM

MurphyMurphy: Lenny_da_Hog: LIES.

1. You didn't capitalize "Bible." Your soul would have prevented any typos.

2. Lack of sesquipedalian loquaciousness. You are not a GOP politician.

Typical liberal racism.

I happen to be a potato, sir. And a God-fearing one at that. This bears with it some mental challenges none of which I expect you to be sensitive of.

Good day!


Oh, right. This is STATE-level GOP. Forgive me, my Tuber-American brother and/or sister and/or transgender.
 
2013-02-21 11:42:53 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: I'll bet even the Catholics are hurting for money these days.


Yes, actually.
 
2013-02-21 11:44:41 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Lenny_da_Hog: It's working for them.

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...

Dumbass, I'm a Democrat. I didn't say it was a good thing, but just pretending it's not working isn't going to change anything.

Democrat or not, it appears that you

Dooooooon't stop, beleeeeeeeeeeeevin...

/anything that scares more voters into the D-column is okay with me
//keep up with the rapey-ness, GOPers
///further to the right, and purge the nonbelievers!


I don't stop believing that the rich are in control via their control of various levels of government. You seem to think that Obamacare went through without a hitch, that all of Obama's cabinet positions are filled, that funding for a jobs bill went through, education is solved and funded, etc., etc., just because we won the presidency and a few more seats in the Senate.

Centrists don't vote. Angry stupid people vote nearly every time.

Where did the rich lose?
 
2013-02-21 11:46:29 PM

pciszek: Lenny_da_Hog: I'll bet even the Catholics are hurting for money these days.

Yes, actually.


Funny, they just ask for $200 million and it will appear. Preying works better than praying.
 
2013-02-21 11:53:52 PM
Since only old men vote republican, and old men are at the highest risk for prostate cancer, it makes sense to me to give every person who votes republican a prostate exam right after they vote.
 
2013-02-21 11:54:42 PM

Mikey1969: Here in Utah, you have people run for the Legislature and the state liquor board on a teetotaler platform, never having consumed a drop of alcohol in their lives


Here in Colorado, people get elected to the public transportation board of directors with the stated goal of eliminating public transportation.  Ditto for public education occasionally.
 
2013-02-21 11:55:09 PM

Mikey1969: Same thing with all of the anti-gun Democrats trying to define laws for guns that they can't even accurately describe.


It's *precisely* the same, in fact.

The anti-gun people are putting "pain-in-the-ass" requirements in place just to punish law-abiding citizens. Mandatory insurance! You have to spend 2,000 hours in competency certification or you're a murderer! Blah, blah, blah.

It's all punishment of people they don't like doing things they don't like, even though they're protected activities. Can't outlaw abortions? Just redefine every step and every facility to make it so expensive and such a pain in the ass that some people will think having the kid will be easier.

Can't outlaw gun ownership? Then just make it so expensive and such a pain in the ass that minor hobbyists and hunters have to give it up, but the really motivated and violent people will still have them.
 
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