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(The Hollywood Reporter)   Nielsen ratings finally decides to admit that it's not the 1950s and we're not all sitting at home watching prime-time wondering when Lucy's baby's gonna drop   (hollywoodreporter.com) divider line 53
    More: Obvious, Nielsen Co., game systems, Arbitron  
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3586 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Feb 2013 at 2:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 11:31:28 AM  
How many "Firefly's" could be saved with accurate download and alternative platform viewing information? I rarely watch a show within a week of it's original broadcast.
 
2013-02-21 11:39:58 AM  
Lucy's pregnant?
 
2013-02-21 12:14:05 PM  
Our household cancelled satellite 3yrs ago and don't even have basic cable or an antennae. The kids Netflix all their cartoons and so they never see a damned commercial. The movies and series I can't find on Netflix travel the good ship vpn from a certain bay across the pond.

/ fark Nielsen ratings, cable, broadcast TV, hollywood, riaa, mpaa and all the rest of those motherfarkers right in their farking asses
 
2013-02-21 01:07:14 PM  
I was a "Nielsen" for two weeks back in 2006.  I had to write down my viewing in a blue book and I got paid in cash.  They sent me a $5 bill in the mail.

So ahead of the tech curve!
 
2013-02-21 01:10:07 PM  

Diogenes: I was a "Nielsen" for two weeks back in 2006.  I had to write down my viewing in a blue book and I got paid in cash.  They sent me a $5 bill in the mail.

So ahead of the tech curve!


I bet it was a really crisp bill, though. They're good like that.
 
2013-02-21 01:13:00 PM  
I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?
 
2013-02-21 01:16:09 PM  

olddeegee: I rarely watch a show within a week of it's original broadcast.


I've gotten into the habit of bingewatching.  Let the DVR get 6-8 shows, then watch them back to back over a couple days.
 
2013-02-21 01:28:41 PM  

BKITU: Diogenes: I was a "Nielsen" for two weeks back in 2006.  I had to write down my viewing in a blue book and I got paid in cash.  They sent me a $5 bill in the mail.

So ahead of the tech curve!

I bet it was a really crisp bill, though. They're good like that.


No joke -- it looked like someone fished it out of an old sock.
 
2013-02-21 01:29:19 PM  

Snotnose: olddeegee: I rarely watch a show within a week of it's original broadcast.

I've gotten into the habit of bingewatching.  Let the DVR get 6-8 shows, then watch them back to back over a couple days.


I do that.  It's nice not having to break up the flow.
 
2013-02-21 02:41:28 PM  
Do the account for time-shifting as well?  I never watch live commercial television.
 
2013-02-21 02:49:05 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?


They could give a fark if anyone under 18 or over 39 is watching anything. They want to know WHAT is being watched, but more than that WHO is watching. This is not about your beloved show, but about selling advertising.
 
2013-02-21 02:50:50 PM  
Could this be the end of "reality" tv, and the race-for-the-bottom moron shows?

doubt it.
 
2013-02-21 02:52:40 PM  
They can count that, but unless they change the rules the money-men won't care because those viewers are skipping commercials, ie: not generating revenue
 
2013-02-21 02:55:41 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?


You can bet that Verizon and Comcast resell viewing information.  It's not quite the same as Nielsen (which has an age and sex and midget porn preference breakdown) but it measures eyeballs more reliably.
 
2013-02-21 02:55:50 PM  

dramboxf: They could give a fark if anyone under 18 or over 39 is watching anything. They want to know WHAT is being watched, but more than that WHO is watching. This is not about your beloved show, but about selling advertising.


Exactly.

Remember, everyone, the equation works this way:

YOU are the PRODUCT that TV broadcasters are selling to their advertisers.

When you look at it in that light, a lot of what TV is about makes much more sense.
 
2013-02-21 02:56:03 PM  

Elzar: Our household cancelled satellite 3yrs ago and don't even have basic cable or an antennae. The kids Netflix all their cartoons and so they never see a damned commercial. The movies and series I can't find on Netflix travel the good ship vpn from a certain bay across the pond.

/ fark Nielsen ratings, cable, broadcast TV, hollywood, riaa, mpaa and all the rest of those motherfarkers right in their farking asses


Yeah, streaming Netflix is great if all you want to watch is old shiat you've seen already! And stealing everything else, man, that'll keep those great shows on the air for sure!
 
2013-02-21 02:56:15 PM  
dramboxf: This is not about your beloved show, but about selling advertising.

The deuce you say!
 
2013-02-21 02:58:14 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?


There are a few problems with this.  As mentioned above, advertisers care as much about WHO is watching than WHAT they are watching.  Cable boxes aren't capable of telling how many people are watching, what their ages are, gender, income, etc.

Secondly, you can't get a representative sample from boxes since only about 40% of television households have digital cable.
 
2013-02-21 02:58:27 PM  
t3.gstatic.com
Betty ponders what it would be like to be impregnated by Dezi's Cuban dong-a-shlong.
 
2013-02-21 03:04:51 PM  

dramboxf: scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?

They could give a fark if anyone under 18 or over 39 is watching anything. They want to know WHAT is being watched, but more than that WHO is watching. This is not about your beloved show, but about selling advertising.


You have to give your age and sex when signing up. They also usually ask how many people are in the household. It's not that hard to think they could measure WHO is watching WHAT.

rugman11: Secondly, you can't get a representative sample from boxes since only about 40% of television households have digital cable.


As opposed to the 0.02183% of television viewers that have a Nielson box?
 
2013-02-21 03:31:21 PM  
Just posting to say: Cable free for 6 months now.

Netflix for the kid, and for starting on the Serial Dramas (The Walking Dead, Downton Abbey, etc)
GameCentre for the Canucks.
OTA for the Big Bang Theory and Local News.

Pretty much all we watched. Saved over $500 by now (Employer pays for ISP)
 
2013-02-21 03:34:06 PM  

olddeegee: How many "Firefly's" could be saved with accurate download and alternative platform viewing information? I rarely watch a show within a week of it's original broadcast.


Right now it's the commercial viewing that supports the show, so in the short term no.  In the long term, if/when the commercial model goes away, it will be very important because everything will sort of be the HBO mode where more viewers regardless of when they watch means you're keeping the populace happy that will keep sending in the monthly payment.  It will certainly give the networks more stuff to cherry pick for positive pr though.
 
2013-02-21 03:35:17 PM  

scottydoesntknow: rugman11: Secondly, you can't get a representative sample from boxes since only about 40% of television households have digital cable.

As opposed to the 0.02183% of television viewers that have a Nielson box?


First, forgive me for being unclear.  The problem is that cable boxes are a self-selected sample and are neither random nor representative, and so are thus useless for true statistical work.

Second, a sample of 25,000 out of a population of 114,700,000 yields a margin of error less than +/-1% at a 99% confidence level.  It's a perfectly valid sample size.
 
2013-02-21 03:38:37 PM  

scottydoesntknow: dramboxf: scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?

They could give a fark if anyone under 18 or over 39 is watching anything. They want to know WHAT is being watched, but more than that WHO is watching. This is not about your beloved show, but about selling advertising.

You have to give your age and sex when signing up. They also usually ask how many people are in the household. It's not that hard to think they could measure WHO is watching WHAT.

rugman11: Secondly, you can't get a representative sample from boxes since only about 40% of television households have digital cable.

As opposed to the 0.02183% of television viewers that have a Nielson box?


And they're still doing diaries outside of the top markets (I think below top 50 or something like that)
 
2013-02-21 03:49:34 PM  

Lost Thought 00: They can count that, but unless they change the rules the money-men won't care because those viewers are skipping commercials, ie: not generating revenue


Exactly. Unless an advertiser is paying for a product placement he is not going to give a shiat about someone watching a show 2 weeks later on a dvr (skipping commercials). Which means the only way this kind of information is going to matter is if we are going to see a ton more product placement (which people complain about too).

Plus there are a lot of commercials that are time sensitive  If you are a movie studio trying to push a weekend release  of a big movie coming out on Friday (or a store advertising a weekend sale) and you pay money for some Thursday ad time, the people who watch that show the next week, even if they watch the commercials are pretty much worthless.
 
2013-02-21 03:50:07 PM  
Sorry, I was too busy watching Amazon Instant Video to hear you.
 
2013-02-21 03:53:51 PM  

MrEricSir: Sorry, I was too busy watching Amazon Instant Video to hear you.


And what's going to annoy a lot of people is that Amazon and Netflix are extremely unlikely to be included in the numbers since they won't want to pay Nielsen to collect that data.  Their numbers are likely to stay a secret for the foreseeable future.
 
2013-02-21 03:56:44 PM  

rugman11: scottydoesntknow: rugman11: Secondly, you can't get a representative sample from boxes since only about 40% of television households have digital cable.

As opposed to the 0.02183% of television viewers that have a Nielson box?

First, forgive me for being unclear.  The problem is that cable boxes are a self-selected sample and are neither random nor representative, and so are thus useless for true statistical work.

Second, a sample of 25,000 out of a population of 114,700,000 yields a margin of error less than +/-1% at a 99% confidence level.  It's a perfectly valid sample size.


Thanks for the clarification, but Nielsen ratings aren't random either. The viewers are aware that they are a Nielsen family, which can lead to response bias.  And how are they not representative? They represent every person who has digital cable, which is 40% of households.
 
2013-02-21 04:03:34 PM  

scottydoesntknow: rugman11: scottydoesntknow: rugman11: Secondly, you can't get a representative sample from boxes since only about 40% of television households have digital cable.

As opposed to the 0.02183% of television viewers that have a Nielson box?

First, forgive me for being unclear.  The problem is that cable boxes are a self-selected sample and are neither random nor representative, and so are thus useless for true statistical work.

Second, a sample of 25,000 out of a population of 114,700,000 yields a margin of error less than +/-1% at a 99% confidence level.  It's a perfectly valid sample size.

Thanks for the clarification, but Nielsen ratings aren't random either. The viewers are aware that they are a Nielsen family, which can lead to response bias.  And how are they not representative? They represent every person who has digital cable, which is 40% of households.


By "representative" I mean representative of the population as a whole.  So if our population of 114,700,000 households with a television is made up of 40% digital cable, 50% analog cable, 10% no cable (which is pretty close to what it actually is), then ideally our sample would be 40% digital, 50% analog, 10% none.  Cable boxes help us to know more about those digital customers, but they don't tell us anything about the other 60%, so we can't use them alone.

The bigger problem, as was mentioned before, is that cable boxes can't tell you WHO is watching or even how many people are watching.  And those factors are just as important to advertisers.
 
2013-02-21 04:07:59 PM  

rugman11: MrEricSir: Sorry, I was too busy watching Amazon Instant Video to hear you.

And what's going to annoy a lot of people is that Amazon and Netflix are extremely unlikely to be included in the numbers since they won't want to pay Nielsen to collect that data.  Their numbers are likely to stay a secret for the foreseeable future.


Besides, people like me who pay for Netflix and/or Amazon aren't watching ads. We don't count in the first place.
 
2013-02-21 04:30:58 PM  
rugman11:  
The bigger problem, as was mentioned before, is that cable boxes can't tell you WHO is watching or even how many people are watching.  And those factors are just as important to advertisers.

Exactly, I mean my cable company knows my name, my address, possibly where I work and that is about it. I am not even sure they know my gender. So if a company wants to sell a product to young women, gathering information from cable boxes isn't going to really help the tv network set a price (because they don't know how many young women they have access to,
 
2013-02-21 05:08:18 PM  
My parents have digital signal, but I'd LOVE to see the advertising breakdown, especially since the dog gets restless when there is no noise. They leave the TV on for the dog. Congrats, advertisers - you guys have successfully reached out to a 13 year old border collie with bad hips.
 
2013-02-21 05:08:51 PM  
You know those rating systems are flawed. They don't take in account houses that have, uh, more than two television sets, and other things of that nature.

www.anchorman2.net
 
2013-02-21 05:20:22 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: My parents have digital signal, but I'd LOVE to see the advertising breakdown, especially since the dog gets restless when there is no noise. They leave the TV on for the dog. Congrats, advertisers - you guys have successfully reached out to a 13 year old border collie with bad hips.


bingo! each of our bunnies had their own TV's when they lived with us. now on our 2nd dog, TV is on for him.

never understood how or why Nielsen had a stranglehold monopoly on American TV viewing habits. does not make sense to me that broadcasters or those paying advertising dollars were willing to accept this.

scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?


when we had DishNetwork they would throw us some new channels for free. when it became obvious we liked a few shows and watched faithfully those channels suddenly became "pay channels". this happened over and over for the 3 years we had a contract with that horrible company. you darn well better believe they know what you watch, when, the whole nine yards.
 
2013-02-21 05:38:46 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: My parents have digital signal, but I'd LOVE to see the advertising breakdown, especially since the dog gets restless when there is no noise. They leave the TV on for the dog. Congrats, advertisers - you guys have successfully reached out to a 13 year old border collie with bad hips.


My mother does this every time she leaves the house, to keep the cats company.  God knows how many hours of the weather channel and the like those cats have watched.
 
2013-02-21 05:39:17 PM  
Still, it was nice getting a couple of bucks in an envelope every now and then..
 
2013-02-21 05:41:10 PM  
Unfortunately, as the article points out, it won't help your favorite shows. Nielsen will be measuring how many people are streaming, not WHAT they're streaming.
 
2013-02-21 06:15:35 PM  

Snotnose: olddeegee: I rarely watch a show within a week of it's original broadcast.

I've gotten into the habit of bingewatching.  Let the DVR get 6-8 shows, then watch them back to back over a couple days.


Nielsen gets data from TiVo DVRs at least.  They count watching within some small number of days.
 
2013-02-21 06:22:23 PM  

KrispyKritter: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: My parents have digital signal, but I'd LOVE to see the advertising breakdown, especially since the dog gets restless when there is no noise. They leave the TV on for the dog. Congrats, advertisers - you guys have successfully reached out to a 13 year old border collie with bad hips.

bingo! each of our bunnies had their own TV's when they lived with us. now on our 2nd dog, TV is on for him.

never understood how or why Nielsen had a stranglehold monopoly on American TV viewing habits. does not make sense to me that broadcasters or those paying advertising dollars were willing to accept this.

scottydoesntknow: I don't understand why we even have the Nielson rating anymore. With the current boxes shouldn't they be able to tell what everyone is watching? Or is that illegal for cable companies to do?

when we had DishNetwork they would throw us some new channels for free. when it became obvious we liked a few shows and watched faithfully those channels suddenly became "pay channels". this happened over and over for the 3 years we had a contract with that horrible company. you darn well better believe they know what you watch, when, the whole nine yards.


Well you can either think that they specifically made those channels pay for you because you watched and enjoyed them or you can look at it as new channels need viewers, so after reaching those viewers and surviving long enough they tried to generate revenue off that.
 
2013-02-21 06:26:44 PM  

rugman11: MrEricSir: Sorry, I was too busy watching Amazon Instant Video to hear you.

And what's going to annoy a lot of people is that Amazon and Netflix are extremely unlikely to be included in the numbers since they won't want to pay Nielsen to collect that data.  Their numbers are likely to stay a secret for the foreseeable future.


They are included in the numbers. I got the Nielsen packet a few months ago, and all I have at my household is Netflix. In the booklet they give you, in the channel number column you write "Internet", and the channel name you write "Netflix" (or Amazon, or Hulu). It's clear they don't anticipate this to be your primary means of watching TV, but they are slowly making accommodations for it.
 
2013-02-21 06:30:42 PM  
This one made me laugh:

img24.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-21 06:41:36 PM  
and I bet you're all wondering why I posted that here instead of in the Michelle Obama/childhood obesity thread ...
 
2013-02-21 06:50:11 PM  

Therion: and I bet you're all wondering why I posted that here instead of in the Michelle Obama/childhood obesity thread ...


Mmmm. Yes. But, go on. Difficulty: Make it relevant.
 
2013-02-21 07:09:59 PM  

Elzar: Our household cancelled satellite 3yrs ago and don't even have basic cable or an antennae. The kids Netflix all their cartoons and so they never see a damned commercial. The movies and series I can't find on Netflix travel the good ship vpn from a certain bay across the pond.

/ fark Nielsen ratings, cable, broadcast TV, hollywood, riaa, mpaa and all the rest of those motherfarkers right in their farking asses


This. Other than the kids thing (ain't got none). In fact, I got my 70 year old dad hooked on Netflix. I now share that account with him and he shares his Amazon Prime account with me. Everything not covered is usually found in the same inlet you mention above.
 
2013-02-21 09:19:38 PM  
I gave up traditional television about 5 or 6 years ago. Now, if it's not on Hulu I don't watch it.  My queue is sitting at 380+ shows right now and it keeps adding up every day, I simply don't have the time to watch it all, as soon as I watch a few it seems like 10 more are added.

On demand programming is the future of television. I've been waiting for them to start taking online watching into consideration for years now. I'm willing to bet that when they do, television as we know it will begin to make some serious changes.
 
2013-02-21 09:29:36 PM  

ReapTheChaos: I gave up traditional television about 5 or 6 years ago. Now, if it's not on Hulu I don't watch it.  My queue is sitting at 380+ shows right now and it keeps adding up every day, I simply don't have the time to watch it all, as soon as I watch a few it seems like 10 more are added.

On demand programming is the future of television. I've been waiting for them to start taking online watching into consideration for years now. I'm willing to bet that when they do, television as we know it will begin to make some serious changes.



and since no one has really been able to successfully figure out how to monetize on demand streaming up to this point, here comes the death of television.
 
2013-02-21 09:54:52 PM  

spman: and since no one has really been able to successfully figure out how to monetize on demand streaming up to this point, here comes the death of television.


Well I can think of a few who have, Hulu, Amazon and Netflix seem to have a pretty good handle on making money on it. So much so that they've even begun to develop their own programming.

You can make more money with on demand programming than the system they have in place now.  Think about how much revenue is lost to people who use a DVR and skip the commercials, on demand streaming eliminates that issue. On demand programming also eliminates the entire concept of "Prime Time", if people are watching programs when it's convenient for them, an advertisement shown at 8 pm is just as valuable as one shown at 4 am.

What was it, 5 or 6 years ago when they had that big TV strike that pretty canceled the all TV shows for the whole year? That was over online streaming revenue, so apparently there's plenty money to be made.
 
2013-02-22 08:37:14 AM  
ReapTheChaos:

What was it, 5 or 6 years ago when they had that big TV strike that pretty canceled the all TV shows for the whole year? That was over online streaming revenue, so apparently there's plenty money to be made.


Your right it was about revenues for online. But I think writers realized there was no money to be made now, but they realized that there could be money to be made in the future and if they didn't get a mention of it in their current contract wording it could screw them over for a very long time.
 
2013-02-22 11:03:43 AM  

mechgreg: ReapTheChaos:

What was it, 5 or 6 years ago when they had that big TV strike that pretty canceled the all TV shows for the whole year? That was over online streaming revenue, so apparently there's plenty money to be made.


Your right it was about revenues for online. But I think writers realized there was no money to be made now, but they realized that there could be money to be made in the future and if they didn't get a mention of it in their current contract wording it could screw them over for a very long time.


The idea was that if they're writing shows now and online viewing takes off, what's going to be watched?  Re-runs, old shows, stuff like that.  The most popular stuff on Netflix is Star Trek and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  Do you think any of those writers had it in their contracts that they're still drawing residuals for internet viewing of those shows?  Probably not in a specific fashion.  That's what the writer's strike was about - making sure that the new shows being written today have contract language that looks forward towards internet viewing in the future.  If somebody wants to go track down all the b.s. clues dropped in old HIMYM eps about who she's going to turn out to be, those guys want to make sure they get paid.
 
2013-02-22 03:33:49 PM  
12349876:

And they're still doing diaries outside of the top markets (I think below top 50 or something like that)

I just did one of these a few weeks ago, so I'm really getting a kick etc.

It was funny, nowhere in their interviewing process before hand (A few telephone surveys and one mail one) did they ask "Do you have some sort of television providing service that produces live channels?"  Our diaries were long blocks of channel 'netflix' showing 'How I met your mother'.

/they gave $5 for the initial mail survey and $30 for the diaries themselves.
//Super crisp new bills each time.
 
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